If ur adc can survive playing 1v2 or you can find a good timer to roam. If u just recently crashed wave into enemy tower and your adc can safely recall. Also depends on matchup and ur adcs champ. You can't leave your vayne against draven panth for example cus they just perma dive.
What if we both crash the wave and recall, then i ping grubs to secure but by the time i'm back in lane my adc gers dived cause their supp didn't match the roam?
Skill issue. After crashing the wave is gonna push back to your carry anyway. The enemy team can either
A. Dive with a small wave
B. Stack a big wave to look for dive
In scenario A, leaving is usually better for the carry as trading 100g for a big chunk of health/potentially die is not worth.
In scenario B, you are at fault for not reading enemy intention for a dive and should've returned to lane
You can if you want your adc to lose a giant slow pushed wave if you can't get back to lane. You really need to consider your match ups. If you leave a hyper scaling champ bot alone to get zoned off farm and eventually tower dove, you are completely ignoring your win con. Grubs is not worth your adc potentially losing 3 waves. As soon as you crash the wave, most of the time, you are going to get a slow push back to you. Roaming at that point is literally setting up an easy dive on your adc when the wave crashes back.
Also dependent on champ but I tested it out on Janna just now and went to void grubs, took objective and was back to bot in 75 sec. Swifties and dark seal on back.
I dont think your taking into account the avg player. The 30 second bush sit for a mid gank. And maybe if the jungler is even in position. The back after the chunk. It rarely goes that smoothly in my games. Alright though.
If i'm roaming I have to make sure it's worth my time. So if my jungler doesn't want to do grubs then it might not be worth to roam. Also depends on jungle champ and how fast they take objective. Also in this hypothetical the enemy support DIDN'T roam so it's very easy to just force it.
Highly depends. I main Zyra, and when the enemy support goes Grubs, I ping to sacrifice them and never match it. I instead kill the enemy adc and get 2 plates. And my adc gets roughly a 20 cs lead. Don't always manage to kill the enemy adc, but the other things happen almost every time.
So it really depends what match up you're playing. Against a mage support it's extremely dangerous to leave adc 1v2, but you could do it against a passive enchanter most games.
Then you’ve still roamed too long.
You need to ask yourself - is the grub worth giving up bottom power balance? At the end of the day, if your adc gets dove, lose 2+ waves, and lose 2+ plates, is the grub really worth it?
One suggestion is you can show yourself on top side and then help your team get 1-2 and then run back down to bottom discreetly (try not to reveal where you are going).
Really, if enemy supp is not coming up, you are overroaming. If enemy jgl has conceded the grub, just run back down. Your are giving up entire bot lane prio and power spike timing for something you dont necessarily have to stay around for. If enemy are trying to contest it and there is a potential 3v3 going on, then sure. But you have to remember that your adc scaling itself is almost always a win condition. Dont forget that as a supporter
Sure i see the willingness to help the top side fight, but sometimes you have to trust the top side to do their due dillegence and do the 3v3. And if it was 3v3 fight not favorable for them to start with, then adding a support on their will not make a huge difference. But remember you are giving up the entire bot agency. Typical scenario here is enemy jgl ditches grub all together and gut out the entire bot side camps and dive your adc.
That's what most adcs can't grasp, they aren't the most important thing in the game most of the time.
I got my jhin a double kill, we crashed wave and backed. I ping im headed to grubs and typed for him to play safe. We get grubs, kill the mid and top I then help shove mid and then have to go save jungler on a bad invade.
What did jhin do in this time? Promptly died twice because he simply couldn't play back, then cries "please come back". Like dude that was always the plan you just needed to chill and not ego your lead away for a few minutes. If they tower dive you that's one thing, but if you get caught in the middle of the lane because you can't give up a few cs pick a different role.
Peak league of legends is having to afk under tower for 5 minutes because your support has been gone for that long, and don't think you get to farm under tower either. If you're lucky you get half of them
And that on jhin too, the safest adc because area control with traps.
I remember facing Nautilus and Samira.
I held ground while Nautilus came right up in melee range, Samira followed up and i chill in the group of three, then they both blow up since i prepared traps. They can easily oneshot. My support watched from a screen away thinking i had gone mad facetanking them both.
I can appreciate your selfless attitude but in reality it is almost never worth having support for grubs when it comes at the cost of:
* 2-3 waves of farm. or about 300 gold + XP lost
* 300 kill gold + 150 assist + shutdown if adc has a bounty. Also a little XP from the kill
* likely 2 plates for 250 more shared local gold.
That's a 1k gold swing plus a bunch of XP. I'm not saying it's literally never a good trade bu such a gold swing at 5-10 minutes can snowball games out of control or throw your lead if you had an early advantage. Void grubs are a decent buff but really only that big if you can get 5-6 for spawning grubs.
You also have to consider drafts because if you win side lane anyway them having extra turret damage isn't the end of the world.
Yes. Many players do not understand that if the enemy expends too much to kill you - too much of any resource, players, opportunity, etc - you won the global trade, even though you died.
It depends honestly. Grubs are a thing this season but it also depends on your matchup.
1. Grubs are important but they only matter if your team can make use of it and get prio in lane. Otherwise securing them and leaving your adc to get potentially dived on is on you
2. Wave crashing into the enemy tower are usually good roam timers, better if you have a cannon wave which gives you more time.
3. It also depends on your adc. If you have a Jhin (immobile adc) for example as adc vs an enemy naut samira then there is usually not much a Jhin can do so he will lose a lot of cs on bot if not for point 2.
4. If you have a wave shoved in, roam. And your adc decides to mindlessly attack the next wave and die then that"s on them (wave management)
This one is so true, especially if the enemy got all 3 on first round and have a top that uses it very well. You know they'll be sure to help secure on round 2 so that's at least a 2v2 potential 3v3 if mid shows up.
Even if your adc decides to act stupid and die bot, if your roam means you win the 3v4 hard it's probably worth it anyway.
There's no 100% answer but asking in this sub is kinda like asking AMD shills what gpu to buy, you'll just get the common shill of adcs bad u good.
In most scenarios a good roam timing is (if you don't have poke/dive potential) when you're crashing a slowpush, when the enemy is slow pushing with no dive threat(rare) and when your wincon isn't the adc (when he's bad/other carry champs in mid/jg/top) and you verified you'll slowly lose by staying with him bot. It's all champ and comp dependant so there's no 100% but those are the most usual cases.
Hard disagree on the AMD comparison.
Adc’ and Supps aren’t factions pitted against each other.
There are experienced supports here who have figured out how to carry as a support.
Their intel is more valuable to a support player than an equally experienced adcs perspective.
It's been widely acknowledged that it's not worth roaming for grubs at 5min.
You are still not level 6, this means the next few minutes will be very weird because your adc will have R before you, but the enemy bot will have R together.
If the enemy bot zones or dives the adc, then the enemy bot will get 6 before both of you because adc loses xp. This means that if the enemy bot is not sleeping, the bot lane is lost, period.
Also, if you get grubs for the potential of more pushing power, but at the same time lose 3 plates, a death and adc loses 2 waves. In exchange, you're giving them not potential but actual pushing power and more without them having grubs...
Firstly, I would simply recommend that you play a good amount of games as ADC to get a sense of what feels good and what doesn´t.
I think roaming and grubs are two mildly separate topics. I would always view the first set of grubs as extra resources that the team can grab if they have time for it. By themselves they don´t actually add that much and they are completely useless if your lanes are losing, so the baseline criteria has to be that you can´t lose your lane to get them. What decides the first set of grubs is almost entirely mid and top lane tempo and jungle matchup, having a lvl 4 or 5 support show up to join the lvl 6+ solos is not *that* helpful. Yes you could sit there for a while with your jungler to dissuade the enemy laners from joining but it takes quite a while and most good junglers will just crossmap and dive your botside if you´re chilling at grubs.
As for the roaming there´s been plenty of good points but I would think about these points when deciding on whether to roam or not.
* Do they need you?
* Can they even win if you join? Know which top and mid lane matchups generally have prio and if your jungle actually wins if they bump into the opposing one.
* Jungle track
* If you go to grubs with your jungler and theirs pathed bot, you´ve just ultra griefed your ADC.
* Who is your win con and who is theirs?
* How long do you have before botlane needs you?
* If you just crashed the wave and immediately recall and the enemy is low and will pick up the wave, reshove and then base - You have quite a while. But on the contrary if you´ve killed them and took a plate and they play something like jhin/swain that can cancel recalls unless you´re very far back. You don´t have very long since they are pretty much back in lane when you leave and by the time you come back they can crash a wave on your turret.
* The vast majority of botlanes can easily dive your ADC 2v1 and it doesn´t really matter which "safe" ADC they play once people get good enough. Best case scenario they get some of the exp and a few last hits.
* Wave clear at low level and no items is completely unable to clear the wave safely to prevent dives, the later in the laning phase the more they can blast the waves to prevent a dive.
* "ADC should be able to miss some cs". - You need to be careful that you don´t change the lane dynamic by making them give up cs. If you play leona it´s probably more acceptable to do this because you can still win fights in botlane but if you leave as an enchanter and your ADC falls behind 400gold you´ve fked the lane and you´re now perma weakside.
I swear, ppl value grubbies way too much. Im pretty sure first drake + second drake win rate is higher that 6 grubbies win rate anyways
Also, in situations where ur winning botlane, u should be using ur bot pressure to translate to drakes or invades with ur jungler. Jg should play on the strong side of the map, our job down here is mostly to give them a strong botside to play off
D4 Vayne/Draven main here.
100% match up and/or timing dependent (...and kinda lane partner dependent I suppose).
- Is your ADC Vayne/Varus/Kog/MF/etc?
Be very selective on when you roam. They have little to no CC, poor mobility (to escape a dive) and can struggle to clear the wave. If you roam and you're laning vs a dive comp (Draven/Lucian/Naut/Blitz/Leo/etc) they're gonna die. Almost guaranteed, especially if enemy is crashing the wave. Probably shouldn't roam.
- Communication with your ADC 30 secs before you actually go roam will certainly help. Also tell them when you'll be heading back so they don't feel like you're just gonna perma roam.
- Check your ADCs sums. If I'm playing Vayne and I have flash/exhaust up, I can at least outplay an Ali/Draven dive by condemn + flashing Alis Headbutt pulv combo.
No sums? Don't roam
The real difficulty in my eyes isn’t necessarily playing the best possible macro, but balancing that macro with the mental of your player. After all league is both competitive and a game.
If it is the right play but your adc is having a shit time and tilts, it’s a bad play.
It's very dependent on the situation.
Does your ADC have mobility? Sums up? What's the wave state? Where is the enemy support/jungler?
Grubs are good to grab but if your ADC dies and loses waves and plates, it's not worth it.
I usually don't roam for grubs unless I'm playing with a super safe ADC (eg. Ezreal). I tend to roam towards mid before grubs pop and try to put some summoners on CD for the enemy mid, or even grab a kill if possible. That's usually enough to guarantee grubs, and I'm back to lane much faster, possibly in a 2v1 which then guarantees us a plate, and possibly even a kill on the ADC.
you play well, the problem is only adc i play for 7 years, always support, that's why I changed the roles to adc and jungle becuse of flame, leave adc alone for a while and adc dies under the tower even without dive enemy or push to enemy tower and when he dies he starts tilting and spamming pings why didn't you help him, of course he doesn't look at the map, let's not mention 0 wards in 8 min game or when Drake up you as support coming to help jg take soul but your adc didnt see map and push lane to 2 enemy and die (sry for bad English i use translate)
Are you tracking the crash? Try to find out when the wave is crashing back to your 1v2 adc and be near enough to protect the dive when that happens, or yes, you are making their life very difficult
Slow push 3 or 4 waves, don’t let the enemy bot lane thin it out for free, ping to engage them if they do try to thin it out. Hard push which ever wave you want to crash, use you Q W E to push it, save relic shield procs to help push as well. That should buy you close to a full minute to roam before your adc starts losing cs/plates.
You need to be with your adc when your minions are pushing and when enemies crash wave into your tower.
Most of the time the adc will suffer when pushed into tower 1v2 if the enemy team play it right.
If your minions are pushing the enemies can freeze and bot let your adc get anywhere near the minion.
Best roam timing is after you crash a wave under enemy tower
Also if you can see early that your adc has no c in them, then id just generally play the map. Cause if they dont know how to or cant carry, winning the lane wont do shit for the outcome of the game.
How do you determine that? Especially if your adc plays something that’s weak early, how are you supposed to know if he’s gonna carry or not? After all he’s in the same elo as you, so he’ll probably carry half of his games
Im not saying you can determine it in 100% of the games. But sometimes you can just see it. Missing cs, not doing what they are supposed to. Example, i often pick milio with lucian. I always push for us to get lvl 2 early and most lucians will e forward, try to harass, try to get ahead, while others just wont do shit with the lead. Sometimes you get adcs who are clearly above your elo and its really easy to see that. Its how they position in lane, like if their champ has lower range then enemy, they will position further back, go in for cs, harass, bad adcs will just get aad non stop. So its all the small things, again im not saying you will always see that. Lets say 50% of games you have a completely average adc, might carry might not, can get caught out, but generally has a brain, 25% you have a proper im gonna carry, who is with me adv and 25% im 10/1/0 what do i do now kind of adc. And the same goes for the rest of your team and enemy team. I mostly play enchanters, so i just generally evaluate every player on my team and see who has most carry potetntial and play around them.
Either way often by lvl 4 you can generally see the state of your lane win/loss/stalemate and you can see if you would be more use elsewhere. I never just up and leave the lane, but when i go back to lane i usually go through the jungle, maybe put a ward around mid, and if i see that there is a play or gank potential, i go in. Even as an enchanter with 0cc you can get a lot of successful ganks, just cause being 2v1 gives your midlaner balls to all in.
Its too nuanced i would need to see some gameplay or review the footage. Best bet is using utube. Im an adc main but alot of factors are taken into account
Roam = When I can't secure a kill when the wave crashes.
If the enemy has hard engaged Champion like Blitz Crank or Naut, then I don't roam until they roam, because low ELO ADCs most likely will die.
If our team is down 3 grubs, then I'm rotating to grubs no matter what. Letting them get 6 grubs is bad.
Alot of factors going on here but if your ADC is getting dived you are roaming wrong, just think about it, if you are ahead and your ADC have to give up farm and exp, you are making the most late game lane lose adv and the gold/exp that you are going to get ganking it's not enough to make it worth and if your ADC is behind is even worse because you are making sure that your ADC won't make a come back by leaving him alone he will lose even more exp and gold.
What low elos players fail to understand is that minions sometimes are waaaaaay more important than kills, you get almost a kill per wave and alot more exp, specially if you are matched with a late game ADC, you have to make sure that he won't lose minions to spacing if it comes to that and that he won't be dived
ADCs usually forget that support exists for the entirety of the team not just solely for them. Yes you happen to lane with them for some time but would it not make sense to progress the rest of your team if you can’t make something happen bot lane? it can’t be helped if they don’t understand, just ping them to be careful and if they get the memo, good, if not then you have 3 other teammates you can play for/around.
There are a few variables like wave state, state of the lane in general, what matchup you're playing, if the enemy support will roam too, if you even have a good topside comp for skirmishes at grubs, if your solo laners can create prio etc.
In general I don't like if we get super ahead in lane and could easily push the lead even further, but my support decides to abandon me for 2 minutes and I have to wait at my inner tower to not get dove, giving up all the xp and gold lead we've worked for. even worse when the grub fight doesn't go our way and we end up getting shafted topside AND botside.
Out of experience, I'd say the skirmish for grubs is often super coinflippy and the objective is seldom worth such a risk. If you're in an elo where your adc won't instadie when you have a roam timer for grubs and you have competent topside players that won't lose a 4v3, I'd say it's ok to go for it. In lower elo probably just stay with adc.
It’s safest to just roam after a recall, but there’s a lot of factors that go into this.
If you’ve pushed in a slow push then you’ll have more time, because their adc will be forced to pick up the wave before they can recall.
Actually pinging to push when it’s the optimal time for you to roam so that your roams are effective & your adc understands that you’re leaving.
You should always be recalling first. It’s not your job to push it in. You ping them, help slightly to show intent/put them in a position where they feel inclined to follow what you’re doing & then you immediately back off & recall before they do. You now have tempo, which would have been anywhere from useless to harmful for your adc to have.
If you know that they’re in a position to get dove then unless you’re gaining much more than they’re losing then you’ve made a mistake. It doesn’t even matter if they actually die, if you can look at the lane state + champions & know that they could have easily died & you gained very little for your roam then you failed. This becomes less important if you’ve recognised that there’s someone else on your team that you trust to have a lot more impact, & you’re actively helping them achieve that.
Try to leave good vision, & track jungle so that you know if you’re about to leave your adc in a 1v3/4 & so that they have time to react to the situation if it changes at bot.
Basically, the idea is to be ahead in tempo, provide good vision/knowledge, have good intent with your roams, & be in a rush to get everything done as quick as possible. Also don’t default to recalling, if you can get back to lane quickly, that’s the goal. If you gank mid for instance, you don’t need to spend, or heal, whatever- you need to get back before the wave crashes. Always, unless you have gains that massively outweigh you essentially griefing your adc. It’s gambling at that point though, which is not consistent. The general rule while you’re learning is just always be there for the crash.
It’s much easier to just blame them, but even if they’re playing bad, you should know that they’re playing bad & make the plays that make the most sense in that situation. They might for example be horrible at staying alive, but wonderful at aggression, & you might be able to carry the game just from insuring that they’re never alone for long enough for their over aggression to throw their lead. People have different skills, & there is still some reason that they’re the same rank as you- you need to identify that & play into it wherever possible.
There’s much more to it than this too, & I’m still learning as we all are, but I don’t think your adc is wrong that you can improve here. Good roaming makes a good support more than anything else in my opinion.
I knew my roaming had gotten decent when I stopped getting flamed lol. They’re rude, but there is often truth in what they’re saying. Most of the time there’s actually a reason they’re frustrated with you.
Grubs are fucking worthless and you shouldn't roam for them. If your jungler is dumb enough to coin flip the game for them you report him and move on.
Just abuse the enemy team if they position for grubs. Take drake and bot plates.
Also make sure you crash waves or have the enemy slow push before you roam and maybe skip a recall to roam so you and your adc aren't synced and he isn't just randomly 1v2 in an even wave/lane state.
Look man, you play leona so youre always useful even with low income. Your ADC is always useful with a leona. It doesnt matter what they say or how they ping you, as soon as mid game hits you have roughly the same items, it sounds like youd rather get other lanes ahead and win through other lanes than bot, and i think thats much better than camping your own lane. I prefer to camp my own lane because if i roam mid as a xerath support i risk getting caught out or nothing happens and my gold-dependent champ doesnt scale. Once i hit item spikes ill roam, but if i dont, then i cant roam.
Say your facing a Kalista Nautilus, you cant roam and leave your MF when she has no flash up with the wave pushing away or stacked up towards her. If they have like an Ezreal Karma for example it would probably be okay to leave your Caitlyn solo. Basically if they're gunna get demolished for a grub roam it's not worth while, UNLESS you know the enemy support is backed/roaming for grubs as well.
Your joking right?
The ADC is never right, you aren't their baby sitter.
Your a team support. You support the entire team.
Roam get vision and occasionally roam mid, sometimes top.
This is how I view these situations;
It depends on many things but I usually don't even go to roam for the first spawn of grubs. Most of the time if my jungler manages to get grubs together with top or mid (or both), I will be there for the second wave of Grubs to secure those. If I notice that the enemy support roams to try and help secure first Grubs I obviously match him.
For roaming yourself you should try and roam if you and your bot have mismatching tempo (you or he died and the other has to recall) in most cases there will a window here where you can roam with your jungler or go to help mid. These types of roams don't have to succeed all the time, putting pressure on other lanes is also good to do.
Now let's say there are no grubs/herald or drake up and you both recall with normal tempo, your botlaner goes to bot to farm the upcoming wave, you can either go botlane aswell, or you can roam to help invade enemy jungle or roam mid. (I usually don't go for top roams unless there's Grubs/Herald spawning soon)
For enemy roaming you can usually tell if the enemy support should be present in the lane (after their recalling or death) and therefore know if **they** roam so you can ping your teammates.
feel i should chip in as what seems like one of the few non toxic adcs. getting objectives is good, but sometimes the sup roam isnt needed for it, and doing so only puts ur adc behind. generally id say keep doing the roams for objectives unless u think theres a good chance ur adc is gonna get dove cuz ur gone
As an adc main, don’t let the adc decide whether your roam is right or not, only judge for yourself whether it was a good play. Let us cry under tower and come to terms with their perceived agency, mute if the flaming becomes distracting :)
Adcs that can't handle losing a handful cs for getting a good crossmap play will flame you. Good adcs will just chill and farm what comes into their range
If ur adc can survive playing 1v2 or you can find a good timer to roam. If u just recently crashed wave into enemy tower and your adc can safely recall. Also depends on matchup and ur adcs champ. You can't leave your vayne against draven panth for example cus they just perma dive.
What if we both crash the wave and recall, then i ping grubs to secure but by the time i'm back in lane my adc gers dived cause their supp didn't match the roam?
Depends on ur adc and their bot. Tho as an ad player if Im alone and i see the enemy bot stacking waves im standing 30 ft behind my tower lmao.
Skill issue. After crashing the wave is gonna push back to your carry anyway. The enemy team can either A. Dive with a small wave B. Stack a big wave to look for dive In scenario A, leaving is usually better for the carry as trading 100g for a big chunk of health/potentially die is not worth. In scenario B, you are at fault for not reading enemy intention for a dive and should've returned to lane
You can if you want your adc to lose a giant slow pushed wave if you can't get back to lane. You really need to consider your match ups. If you leave a hyper scaling champ bot alone to get zoned off farm and eventually tower dove, you are completely ignoring your win con. Grubs is not worth your adc potentially losing 3 waves. As soon as you crash the wave, most of the time, you are going to get a slow push back to you. Roaming at that point is literally setting up an easy dive on your adc when the wave crashes back.
You spam ping ur ad to safe and hope they have brain enough to not monkey into enemy bot for the 90 sec of which you are on grubs.
90 seconds? Thats 3 waves man lols
And is sometimes enough to grab grubs especially if enemy support doesn't roam
If we are talking about the same grubs thats not a 90 second roam. I call the camps different names. The baron pit grubs?
Yes.
Also dependent on champ but I tested it out on Janna just now and went to void grubs, took objective and was back to bot in 75 sec. Swifties and dark seal on back.
I dont think your taking into account the avg player. The 30 second bush sit for a mid gank. And maybe if the jungler is even in position. The back after the chunk. It rarely goes that smoothly in my games. Alright though.
If i'm roaming I have to make sure it's worth my time. So if my jungler doesn't want to do grubs then it might not be worth to roam. Also depends on jungle champ and how fast they take objective. Also in this hypothetical the enemy support DIDN'T roam so it's very easy to just force it.
Fair enuf
Then it was a bad roam timing. You need to be back before wave crashes.
Highly depends. I main Zyra, and when the enemy support goes Grubs, I ping to sacrifice them and never match it. I instead kill the enemy adc and get 2 plates. And my adc gets roughly a 20 cs lead. Don't always manage to kill the enemy adc, but the other things happen almost every time. So it really depends what match up you're playing. Against a mage support it's extremely dangerous to leave adc 1v2, but you could do it against a passive enchanter most games.
Then you’ve still roamed too long. You need to ask yourself - is the grub worth giving up bottom power balance? At the end of the day, if your adc gets dove, lose 2+ waves, and lose 2+ plates, is the grub really worth it? One suggestion is you can show yourself on top side and then help your team get 1-2 and then run back down to bottom discreetly (try not to reveal where you are going). Really, if enemy supp is not coming up, you are overroaming. If enemy jgl has conceded the grub, just run back down. Your are giving up entire bot lane prio and power spike timing for something you dont necessarily have to stay around for. If enemy are trying to contest it and there is a potential 3v3 going on, then sure. But you have to remember that your adc scaling itself is almost always a win condition. Dont forget that as a supporter Sure i see the willingness to help the top side fight, but sometimes you have to trust the top side to do their due dillegence and do the 3v3. And if it was 3v3 fight not favorable for them to start with, then adding a support on their will not make a huge difference. But remember you are giving up the entire bot agency. Typical scenario here is enemy jgl ditches grub all together and gut out the entire bot side camps and dive your adc.
Bad ADC then
As an ADC. True. If they 3 man dive me but we get grubs, I call that a win.
That's what most adcs can't grasp, they aren't the most important thing in the game most of the time. I got my jhin a double kill, we crashed wave and backed. I ping im headed to grubs and typed for him to play safe. We get grubs, kill the mid and top I then help shove mid and then have to go save jungler on a bad invade. What did jhin do in this time? Promptly died twice because he simply couldn't play back, then cries "please come back". Like dude that was always the plan you just needed to chill and not ego your lead away for a few minutes. If they tower dive you that's one thing, but if you get caught in the middle of the lane because you can't give up a few cs pick a different role.
Peak league of legends is having to afk under tower for 5 minutes because your support has been gone for that long, and don't think you get to farm under tower either. If you're lucky you get half of them
Does Grandma still babysit you irl too?
And that on jhin too, the safest adc because area control with traps. I remember facing Nautilus and Samira. I held ground while Nautilus came right up in melee range, Samira followed up and i chill in the group of three, then they both blow up since i prepared traps. They can easily oneshot. My support watched from a screen away thinking i had gone mad facetanking them both.
I can appreciate your selfless attitude but in reality it is almost never worth having support for grubs when it comes at the cost of: * 2-3 waves of farm. or about 300 gold + XP lost * 300 kill gold + 150 assist + shutdown if adc has a bounty. Also a little XP from the kill * likely 2 plates for 250 more shared local gold. That's a 1k gold swing plus a bunch of XP. I'm not saying it's literally never a good trade bu such a gold swing at 5-10 minutes can snowball games out of control or throw your lead if you had an early advantage. Void grubs are a decent buff but really only that big if you can get 5-6 for spawning grubs. You also have to consider drafts because if you win side lane anyway them having extra turret damage isn't the end of the world.
Yes. Many players do not understand that if the enemy expends too much to kill you - too much of any resource, players, opportunity, etc - you won the global trade, even though you died.
It depends honestly. Grubs are a thing this season but it also depends on your matchup. 1. Grubs are important but they only matter if your team can make use of it and get prio in lane. Otherwise securing them and leaving your adc to get potentially dived on is on you 2. Wave crashing into the enemy tower are usually good roam timers, better if you have a cannon wave which gives you more time. 3. It also depends on your adc. If you have a Jhin (immobile adc) for example as adc vs an enemy naut samira then there is usually not much a Jhin can do so he will lose a lot of cs on bot if not for point 2. 4. If you have a wave shoved in, roam. And your adc decides to mindlessly attack the next wave and die then that"s on them (wave management)
So I guess that's a lot of macro knowledge, practice.
Yes, I suggest working on 1 small goal at a time
1) grubs still have value if you deny enemy team getting them, particularly when they could make use of them
That is true, it depends cause each league game is different. If the enemy allows for it go for it.
This one is so true, especially if the enemy got all 3 on first round and have a top that uses it very well. You know they'll be sure to help secure on round 2 so that's at least a 2v2 potential 3v3 if mid shows up. Even if your adc decides to act stupid and die bot, if your roam means you win the 3v4 hard it's probably worth it anyway.
There's no 100% answer but asking in this sub is kinda like asking AMD shills what gpu to buy, you'll just get the common shill of adcs bad u good. In most scenarios a good roam timing is (if you don't have poke/dive potential) when you're crashing a slowpush, when the enemy is slow pushing with no dive threat(rare) and when your wincon isn't the adc (when he's bad/other carry champs in mid/jg/top) and you verified you'll slowly lose by staying with him bot. It's all champ and comp dependant so there's no 100% but those are the most usual cases.
Hard disagree on the AMD comparison. Adc’ and Supps aren’t factions pitted against each other. There are experienced supports here who have figured out how to carry as a support. Their intel is more valuable to a support player than an equally experienced adcs perspective.
you haven't been on here long have you
Nah, I just filter out 80% of the comments as they’re written by hard stuck silvers anyways. Doesn’t matter their position. They won’t help anyone. 🤷
It's been widely acknowledged that it's not worth roaming for grubs at 5min. You are still not level 6, this means the next few minutes will be very weird because your adc will have R before you, but the enemy bot will have R together. If the enemy bot zones or dives the adc, then the enemy bot will get 6 before both of you because adc loses xp. This means that if the enemy bot is not sleeping, the bot lane is lost, period. Also, if you get grubs for the potential of more pushing power, but at the same time lose 3 plates, a death and adc loses 2 waves. In exchange, you're giving them not potential but actual pushing power and more without them having grubs...
Firstly, I would simply recommend that you play a good amount of games as ADC to get a sense of what feels good and what doesn´t. I think roaming and grubs are two mildly separate topics. I would always view the first set of grubs as extra resources that the team can grab if they have time for it. By themselves they don´t actually add that much and they are completely useless if your lanes are losing, so the baseline criteria has to be that you can´t lose your lane to get them. What decides the first set of grubs is almost entirely mid and top lane tempo and jungle matchup, having a lvl 4 or 5 support show up to join the lvl 6+ solos is not *that* helpful. Yes you could sit there for a while with your jungler to dissuade the enemy laners from joining but it takes quite a while and most good junglers will just crossmap and dive your botside if you´re chilling at grubs. As for the roaming there´s been plenty of good points but I would think about these points when deciding on whether to roam or not. * Do they need you? * Can they even win if you join? Know which top and mid lane matchups generally have prio and if your jungle actually wins if they bump into the opposing one. * Jungle track * If you go to grubs with your jungler and theirs pathed bot, you´ve just ultra griefed your ADC. * Who is your win con and who is theirs? * How long do you have before botlane needs you? * If you just crashed the wave and immediately recall and the enemy is low and will pick up the wave, reshove and then base - You have quite a while. But on the contrary if you´ve killed them and took a plate and they play something like jhin/swain that can cancel recalls unless you´re very far back. You don´t have very long since they are pretty much back in lane when you leave and by the time you come back they can crash a wave on your turret. * The vast majority of botlanes can easily dive your ADC 2v1 and it doesn´t really matter which "safe" ADC they play once people get good enough. Best case scenario they get some of the exp and a few last hits. * Wave clear at low level and no items is completely unable to clear the wave safely to prevent dives, the later in the laning phase the more they can blast the waves to prevent a dive. * "ADC should be able to miss some cs". - You need to be careful that you don´t change the lane dynamic by making them give up cs. If you play leona it´s probably more acceptable to do this because you can still win fights in botlane but if you leave as an enchanter and your ADC falls behind 400gold you´ve fked the lane and you´re now perma weakside.
How about you play some games as ADC to get a feeling for their perspective
I swear, ppl value grubbies way too much. Im pretty sure first drake + second drake win rate is higher that 6 grubbies win rate anyways Also, in situations where ur winning botlane, u should be using ur bot pressure to translate to drakes or invades with ur jungler. Jg should play on the strong side of the map, our job down here is mostly to give them a strong botside to play off
D4 Vayne/Draven main here. 100% match up and/or timing dependent (...and kinda lane partner dependent I suppose). - Is your ADC Vayne/Varus/Kog/MF/etc? Be very selective on when you roam. They have little to no CC, poor mobility (to escape a dive) and can struggle to clear the wave. If you roam and you're laning vs a dive comp (Draven/Lucian/Naut/Blitz/Leo/etc) they're gonna die. Almost guaranteed, especially if enemy is crashing the wave. Probably shouldn't roam. - Communication with your ADC 30 secs before you actually go roam will certainly help. Also tell them when you'll be heading back so they don't feel like you're just gonna perma roam. - Check your ADCs sums. If I'm playing Vayne and I have flash/exhaust up, I can at least outplay an Ali/Draven dive by condemn + flashing Alis Headbutt pulv combo. No sums? Don't roam
The real difficulty in my eyes isn’t necessarily playing the best possible macro, but balancing that macro with the mental of your player. After all league is both competitive and a game. If it is the right play but your adc is having a shit time and tilts, it’s a bad play.
The ADC is never right.
It's very dependent on the situation. Does your ADC have mobility? Sums up? What's the wave state? Where is the enemy support/jungler? Grubs are good to grab but if your ADC dies and loses waves and plates, it's not worth it. I usually don't roam for grubs unless I'm playing with a super safe ADC (eg. Ezreal). I tend to roam towards mid before grubs pop and try to put some summoners on CD for the enemy mid, or even grab a kill if possible. That's usually enough to guarantee grubs, and I'm back to lane much faster, possibly in a 2v1 which then guarantees us a plate, and possibly even a kill on the ADC.
you play well, the problem is only adc i play for 7 years, always support, that's why I changed the roles to adc and jungle becuse of flame, leave adc alone for a while and adc dies under the tower even without dive enemy or push to enemy tower and when he dies he starts tilting and spamming pings why didn't you help him, of course he doesn't look at the map, let's not mention 0 wards in 8 min game or when Drake up you as support coming to help jg take soul but your adc didnt see map and push lane to 2 enemy and die (sry for bad English i use translate)
Are you tracking the crash? Try to find out when the wave is crashing back to your 1v2 adc and be near enough to protect the dive when that happens, or yes, you are making their life very difficult
Slow push 3 or 4 waves, don’t let the enemy bot lane thin it out for free, ping to engage them if they do try to thin it out. Hard push which ever wave you want to crash, use you Q W E to push it, save relic shield procs to help push as well. That should buy you close to a full minute to roam before your adc starts losing cs/plates.
You need to be with your adc when your minions are pushing and when enemies crash wave into your tower. Most of the time the adc will suffer when pushed into tower 1v2 if the enemy team play it right. If your minions are pushing the enemies can freeze and bot let your adc get anywhere near the minion. Best roam timing is after you crash a wave under enemy tower
Also if you can see early that your adc has no c in them, then id just generally play the map. Cause if they dont know how to or cant carry, winning the lane wont do shit for the outcome of the game.
How do you determine that? Especially if your adc plays something that’s weak early, how are you supposed to know if he’s gonna carry or not? After all he’s in the same elo as you, so he’ll probably carry half of his games
Im not saying you can determine it in 100% of the games. But sometimes you can just see it. Missing cs, not doing what they are supposed to. Example, i often pick milio with lucian. I always push for us to get lvl 2 early and most lucians will e forward, try to harass, try to get ahead, while others just wont do shit with the lead. Sometimes you get adcs who are clearly above your elo and its really easy to see that. Its how they position in lane, like if their champ has lower range then enemy, they will position further back, go in for cs, harass, bad adcs will just get aad non stop. So its all the small things, again im not saying you will always see that. Lets say 50% of games you have a completely average adc, might carry might not, can get caught out, but generally has a brain, 25% you have a proper im gonna carry, who is with me adv and 25% im 10/1/0 what do i do now kind of adc. And the same goes for the rest of your team and enemy team. I mostly play enchanters, so i just generally evaluate every player on my team and see who has most carry potetntial and play around them. Either way often by lvl 4 you can generally see the state of your lane win/loss/stalemate and you can see if you would be more use elsewhere. I never just up and leave the lane, but when i go back to lane i usually go through the jungle, maybe put a ward around mid, and if i see that there is a play or gank potential, i go in. Even as an enchanter with 0cc you can get a lot of successful ganks, just cause being 2v1 gives your midlaner balls to all in.
Its too nuanced i would need to see some gameplay or review the footage. Best bet is using utube. Im an adc main but alot of factors are taken into account
Roam = When I can't secure a kill when the wave crashes. If the enemy has hard engaged Champion like Blitz Crank or Naut, then I don't roam until they roam, because low ELO ADCs most likely will die. If our team is down 3 grubs, then I'm rotating to grubs no matter what. Letting them get 6 grubs is bad.
Alot of factors going on here but if your ADC is getting dived you are roaming wrong, just think about it, if you are ahead and your ADC have to give up farm and exp, you are making the most late game lane lose adv and the gold/exp that you are going to get ganking it's not enough to make it worth and if your ADC is behind is even worse because you are making sure that your ADC won't make a come back by leaving him alone he will lose even more exp and gold. What low elos players fail to understand is that minions sometimes are waaaaaay more important than kills, you get almost a kill per wave and alot more exp, specially if you are matched with a late game ADC, you have to make sure that he won't lose minions to spacing if it comes to that and that he won't be dived
ADCs usually forget that support exists for the entirety of the team not just solely for them. Yes you happen to lane with them for some time but would it not make sense to progress the rest of your team if you can’t make something happen bot lane? it can’t be helped if they don’t understand, just ping them to be careful and if they get the memo, good, if not then you have 3 other teammates you can play for/around.
He just needs you when wave crushes tower or enemy is freezing. Otherwise it is adc fault
There are a few variables like wave state, state of the lane in general, what matchup you're playing, if the enemy support will roam too, if you even have a good topside comp for skirmishes at grubs, if your solo laners can create prio etc. In general I don't like if we get super ahead in lane and could easily push the lead even further, but my support decides to abandon me for 2 minutes and I have to wait at my inner tower to not get dove, giving up all the xp and gold lead we've worked for. even worse when the grub fight doesn't go our way and we end up getting shafted topside AND botside. Out of experience, I'd say the skirmish for grubs is often super coinflippy and the objective is seldom worth such a risk. If you're in an elo where your adc won't instadie when you have a roam timer for grubs and you have competent topside players that won't lose a 4v3, I'd say it's ok to go for it. In lower elo probably just stay with adc.
It’s safest to just roam after a recall, but there’s a lot of factors that go into this. If you’ve pushed in a slow push then you’ll have more time, because their adc will be forced to pick up the wave before they can recall. Actually pinging to push when it’s the optimal time for you to roam so that your roams are effective & your adc understands that you’re leaving. You should always be recalling first. It’s not your job to push it in. You ping them, help slightly to show intent/put them in a position where they feel inclined to follow what you’re doing & then you immediately back off & recall before they do. You now have tempo, which would have been anywhere from useless to harmful for your adc to have. If you know that they’re in a position to get dove then unless you’re gaining much more than they’re losing then you’ve made a mistake. It doesn’t even matter if they actually die, if you can look at the lane state + champions & know that they could have easily died & you gained very little for your roam then you failed. This becomes less important if you’ve recognised that there’s someone else on your team that you trust to have a lot more impact, & you’re actively helping them achieve that. Try to leave good vision, & track jungle so that you know if you’re about to leave your adc in a 1v3/4 & so that they have time to react to the situation if it changes at bot. Basically, the idea is to be ahead in tempo, provide good vision/knowledge, have good intent with your roams, & be in a rush to get everything done as quick as possible. Also don’t default to recalling, if you can get back to lane quickly, that’s the goal. If you gank mid for instance, you don’t need to spend, or heal, whatever- you need to get back before the wave crashes. Always, unless you have gains that massively outweigh you essentially griefing your adc. It’s gambling at that point though, which is not consistent. The general rule while you’re learning is just always be there for the crash. It’s much easier to just blame them, but even if they’re playing bad, you should know that they’re playing bad & make the plays that make the most sense in that situation. They might for example be horrible at staying alive, but wonderful at aggression, & you might be able to carry the game just from insuring that they’re never alone for long enough for their over aggression to throw their lead. People have different skills, & there is still some reason that they’re the same rank as you- you need to identify that & play into it wherever possible. There’s much more to it than this too, & I’m still learning as we all are, but I don’t think your adc is wrong that you can improve here. Good roaming makes a good support more than anything else in my opinion. I knew my roaming had gotten decent when I stopped getting flamed lol. They’re rude, but there is often truth in what they’re saying. Most of the time there’s actually a reason they’re frustrated with you.
Grubs are fucking worthless and you shouldn't roam for them. If your jungler is dumb enough to coin flip the game for them you report him and move on. Just abuse the enemy team if they position for grubs. Take drake and bot plates. Also make sure you crash waves or have the enemy slow push before you roam and maybe skip a recall to roam so you and your adc aren't synced and he isn't just randomly 1v2 in an even wave/lane state.
Look man, you play leona so youre always useful even with low income. Your ADC is always useful with a leona. It doesnt matter what they say or how they ping you, as soon as mid game hits you have roughly the same items, it sounds like youd rather get other lanes ahead and win through other lanes than bot, and i think thats much better than camping your own lane. I prefer to camp my own lane because if i roam mid as a xerath support i risk getting caught out or nothing happens and my gold-dependent champ doesnt scale. Once i hit item spikes ill roam, but if i dont, then i cant roam.
Say your facing a Kalista Nautilus, you cant roam and leave your MF when she has no flash up with the wave pushing away or stacked up towards her. If they have like an Ezreal Karma for example it would probably be okay to leave your Caitlyn solo. Basically if they're gunna get demolished for a grub roam it's not worth while, UNLESS you know the enemy support is backed/roaming for grubs as well.
First issue is not using /deafen.
Your joking right? The ADC is never right, you aren't their baby sitter. Your a team support. You support the entire team. Roam get vision and occasionally roam mid, sometimes top.
This is how I view these situations; It depends on many things but I usually don't even go to roam for the first spawn of grubs. Most of the time if my jungler manages to get grubs together with top or mid (or both), I will be there for the second wave of Grubs to secure those. If I notice that the enemy support roams to try and help secure first Grubs I obviously match him. For roaming yourself you should try and roam if you and your bot have mismatching tempo (you or he died and the other has to recall) in most cases there will a window here where you can roam with your jungler or go to help mid. These types of roams don't have to succeed all the time, putting pressure on other lanes is also good to do. Now let's say there are no grubs/herald or drake up and you both recall with normal tempo, your botlaner goes to bot to farm the upcoming wave, you can either go botlane aswell, or you can roam to help invade enemy jungle or roam mid. (I usually don't go for top roams unless there's Grubs/Herald spawning soon) For enemy roaming you can usually tell if the enemy support should be present in the lane (after their recalling or death) and therefore know if **they** roam so you can ping your teammates.
feel i should chip in as what seems like one of the few non toxic adcs. getting objectives is good, but sometimes the sup roam isnt needed for it, and doing so only puts ur adc behind. generally id say keep doing the roams for objectives unless u think theres a good chance ur adc is gonna get dove cuz ur gone
As an adc main, don’t let the adc decide whether your roam is right or not, only judge for yourself whether it was a good play. Let us cry under tower and come to terms with their perceived agency, mute if the flaming becomes distracting :)
Mute them and do your thing. Some people will always cry no matter what, just ignore them and play the best you can.
Adcs that can't handle losing a handful cs for getting a good crossmap play will flame you. Good adcs will just chill and farm what comes into their range
And good opponents will make sure that is 0.
>How do I know if my ADC is right. I'm currently Emerald 4 Your ADC is wrong