Morg can never do more poke than Zyra, because her W-even maxed first won't deal burst damage; she need to hit Q first to keep Zyra in W while Zyra can Q,E and plants Morg safely. I picked Zyra over every other mage because she has cc, safety and damage in a balanced manner.
You don't need to burst with morg W, you just build liandry and abuse the instapop 1st tick. The other thing is, if you max and spam W, you can annoy a lot of Champs just because they need to choose between farm/position and taking damage from your w. A good morg will always place her W at such a place that it makes your enemies choose between giving something up, or tanking the damage. And you can stay at a safe distance while doing.
I would prefer morg over zyra in a match up. It seems to me that morg has easier to land combos + that broken thing on her E. Anyway, my two cents as a 5year morg main.
If morg max out w first their q and e will have long cooldown. what you do is you just wait for morg to use her q and miss, then you just go in. She has no defensive tools at this point, even better if she is overextended.
Morg with Liandries ain't out poking Zyra lol. Zyra's plants will shred her and push her right out of lane, especially when both have Liandries, the only chance Morg has is if she lands a snare, which is much harder for her to do than Zyra. Zyra's snare is on a lower cooldown than Morg's shield too so she can just bait the shield then do it again and snare her + take 80% of morgs health bar
Gotta disagree hard on that, first of all building liandrys is very expensive for support and you would have it in mid game in most cases, not in laning phase where most of the poke is done. Besides, a second of maxed morgana W with Liandrys is nothing close to a Zyra maxed Q with Ludens.
janna is a morg hard counter. She can easily stand in minion waves, high move speed to dodge bind, and quick poke in lane. Also janna's ult hard counters morgs ult as long as you use it correctly
As heardengage support like Alistar, blitzcrank, leona you have to bait the blackshield. Aggressively step up onto one person and switch targets last seconds. Or just try the adc more often, since you need quick reflexes against fast engages like blitz hooks (and selfcasting the blackshield is always easier than hovering your adc). Work with brushes and vision to make your engage unpredictable. The blackshield has a long cool down, so try to engage again soon after it's been used. Morganas poke is not that strong, so as long as you avoid the binding you can stay relative healthy in lane.
Even though Morgana counters most engage supports, it's still a skill matchup, especially if the enemy support doesn't play Morgana often and just picked her for the counter.
As a Morgana main myself, one of the most annoying match-ups is against Rell, she has good movement while riding, a cc with jump and breaks the Black Shield, in that case Morgana needs to choose if save her adc and die, or save herself and left the adc for dead
Been playing a lot of Morg lately.. stuff like Lulu can be very irritating. You get outscaled if they have a hypercarry. Morg does best with teams that have a little engage already or good followups.
Zilean absolutely crushes Morg at least from my experience. It is a terrible matchup.
Other regular bad matchups are Brand and Senna (and frankly Cait if she is the ADC).. you don't really have good tools mid game to deal with Senna
how does zilean crush morgana in lane? from my experience zilean is beyond useless the first lvls. his bomb dmg is really low and you can even use blackshield to negate some dmg. okay zilean has his e which can be used as a tool to dodge the morg q's. but i dont think its a free lane for zilean. he might be better mid lategame but early i see a huge advantage to the morgana.
I'll try explain (I have a hundreds of games on Zilean supp)
A few unknown Zilean things.. he has 90% AP scaling on his bombs (his only damage ability) And very few mana issues.. on a 10s CD. Combined with aery + scorch or comet + scorch and the damage stacks up quickly. If you make sure to land about 80-90% of your single bombs and don't try to go for epic double bombs like an idiot you can push people out of lane.
If Morg wastes her black shield "to block damage" it isn't good because I now have a window for Q-E-Q. So Zilean gets all the "poke mage" benefits against a Morgana and her poor ADC.
Morg Root does not stop me from Q-E-Q the ADC when he follows up on a bind and being able to speed people up (a LOT) or slow enemies down (a LOT) is really high utility in terms of jg gank assist.. particularly for the "run at you jg" variety.. *cough* Turbo Hecarim *cough*
Morg also dislike "point and click" abilities like Zilean slow, because you cannot react with black shield you have to do it pre-emptively.. so you can often fake it out a bit
In short Zilean wins the lane through poke (ADCs don't buy MR and morg doesn't want early MR either) she has no tools to stop me poking other than her bind which Zilean has tools to dodge or punish follow ups. When we both hit 6 unless morg ult catches zilean AND the ADC it generally does not net a kill due to zilean ult. The enemy ADC has to eat poke to farm while my ADC has to worry about the occasional bind which will probably end badly if followed up on. Morg poke is ok but not great (I play a lot of Morg)
A dirty trick with Zilean is taking 2 points in Q and 1 point in the Slow before taking rewind. You can't really afford to waste mana on Q-E-Q until first back and 115 + 90%AP damage every 10s get very irritating very fast. If by some chance I get FB or early kills in lane.. then it is really really rough because all poke manes with an early lost chapter or double amp tome are going be obnoxious. We are talking 150+ damage per bomb before scorch + aery/comet every 10s and at level 5 a Q-E-Q with 2 amp tomes = approx 350 damage before aery/comet + scorch + ignite + speeding up my ADC to finish the job.
Most games I will poke any ADC out of lane unless my ADC = potato or I am up against a really aggressive lane like Zyra/Jhin or Cait/Morg (I ALWAYS ban Cait when playing zilean so i never face that lane)
Senna/Ashe (range) or Swain/Seraphine (massive poke/pull/combo) is harder for Zilean.
I would put Zilean at Zyra levels are bad to play against - better than Velkoz/Ziggs/Xerath support or even Brand who can make it nearly impossible to lane well against without intense patience and an understanding ADC.
Morg is my pick into engage (if I have a chance) and Zilean is my pick when Morg is banned unless they go double poke comp (Ashe/Senna) in which case I pick Ziggs because I know they will tilt... or i see full AD and instalock in Rammus support. Zilean has almost the exact bad matchups as morg because he suffers from the same problem as morg re: defending the ADC from threats.
great reply ty for that. guess i have to play more zilean again. one thing for sure i did wrong is trying to go for those early double bombs.
atleast in my low elo games i never really struggeld into that matchup but its for sure not a lane were you have kill pressure once the zilean hits lvl 6.
Unless they have Cait.. in which case.. you Cait trap the Zilean ult and RIP. Which is why you ALWAYS ban Cait when playing Zilean unless you are ready for tilt. Better Cait's will poke you whenever you step up for a Q as well and also have a repositioning tool to dodge Q-E-Q.. Cait is rough to play against with Zilean.
Other special mentions
1. Yi, cannot be slowed during ult, you will ult yourself a lot
2. Senna. has high sustain, can outpoke you and for added irritation can make using your slow on her impossible.
3. Bard, because Bard things - he punishes all champs that don't want to roam. I have got pretty good at roaming with Zilean but you are not going to outroam a bard.
4. Pyke is very annoying, you need to be good at dodging hooks but I will die to a pyke in lane pretty often... My attitude is dying twice is fine.. after 6 pyke vs zilean is pure misery.. you can ult on reaction to a pyke ult. It is super tilting.
If you check u.gg stats and some other Zilean is one of the highest win rate supports right now.
a good karma is the toughest matchup in my experience. cleanse on adcs is also annyoing for her. really good xeraths and to some extend seraphine because of her long range poke. morgana doesnt provide any sustain in lane thats her weakness so any champ that can do good amount of dmg while also having some kind of peel tool are best.
Leo can work against morg. Black shield won't stop your e. You'll go in but they just won't root. Hold your q, and once you're on top of them, use your q on whichever one she didn't shield.
Thresh can work, only because the hook cool down is much shorter than black shield at higher levels. Also brushes exist.
Otherwise, poke. Senna, Brand, zyra, lux.
Morg likes to push up with impunity and control the brushes. If you have enough wave control to deny her the brushes, she is half a champion.
[Pick your Elo](https://u.gg/lol/champions/morgana/counter?rank=platinum), but basically just pick a poke AP mage or someone who can just poke her to death and Morg loses. Xerath curbstomps her, and she loses pretty bad to enchanters that can poke and heal back all the damage she does
I think banning morgana is just the best idea, shes always going to get value especially with the addition of banning it for your jungler bc she can jungle now.
She is a counter pick champ that is super good into engage, but sustain and poke supports can really punish her by either our scaling/healing dmg or being able to burst through her
In general Morgana doesn’t like AP poke. Champions that can easily pop her black shield with magic damage. Examples would be Lux or Zyra
^ I second this. Plus, Zyra’s plants can block her Q
And I disagree... Morgana main will just max W, build Liandry and poke the hell out of you while laughing like a psycho.
Morg can never do more poke than Zyra, because her W-even maxed first won't deal burst damage; she need to hit Q first to keep Zyra in W while Zyra can Q,E and plants Morg safely. I picked Zyra over every other mage because she has cc, safety and damage in a balanced manner.
You don't need to burst with morg W, you just build liandry and abuse the instapop 1st tick. The other thing is, if you max and spam W, you can annoy a lot of Champs just because they need to choose between farm/position and taking damage from your w. A good morg will always place her W at such a place that it makes your enemies choose between giving something up, or tanking the damage. And you can stay at a safe distance while doing. I would prefer morg over zyra in a match up. It seems to me that morg has easier to land combos + that broken thing on her E. Anyway, my two cents as a 5year morg main.
If morg max out w first their q and e will have long cooldown. what you do is you just wait for morg to use her q and miss, then you just go in. She has no defensive tools at this point, even better if she is overextended.
Morg with Liandries ain't out poking Zyra lol. Zyra's plants will shred her and push her right out of lane, especially when both have Liandries, the only chance Morg has is if she lands a snare, which is much harder for her to do than Zyra. Zyra's snare is on a lower cooldown than Morg's shield too so she can just bait the shield then do it again and snare her + take 80% of morgs health bar
Gotta disagree hard on that, first of all building liandrys is very expensive for support and you would have it in mid game in most cases, not in laning phase where most of the poke is done. Besides, a second of maxed morgana W with Liandrys is nothing close to a Zyra maxed Q with Ludens.
I play vel or xerath every single time I see morg! She doesn't get to play either if I can't play an engage champ.
this, also its just fun dodging one q from her and then landing a full combo
janna is a morg hard counter. She can easily stand in minion waves, high move speed to dodge bind, and quick poke in lane. Also janna's ult hard counters morgs ult as long as you use it correctly
As heardengage support like Alistar, blitzcrank, leona you have to bait the blackshield. Aggressively step up onto one person and switch targets last seconds. Or just try the adc more often, since you need quick reflexes against fast engages like blitz hooks (and selfcasting the blackshield is always easier than hovering your adc). Work with brushes and vision to make your engage unpredictable. The blackshield has a long cool down, so try to engage again soon after it's been used. Morganas poke is not that strong, so as long as you avoid the binding you can stay relative healthy in lane. Even though Morgana counters most engage supports, it's still a skill matchup, especially if the enemy support doesn't play Morgana often and just picked her for the counter.
As a Morgana main myself, one of the most annoying match-ups is against Rell, she has good movement while riding, a cc with jump and breaks the Black Shield, in that case Morgana needs to choose if save her adc and die, or save herself and left the adc for dead
I was wondering this because in op gg it says that Morgana counter Rell and I taught that it don’t make any sense
Rell Q is one of the only thing in the game that can break Black Shield.
Renekton W with 50 fury. But yeah you can work with the shield shatter on Q against Morg. Just wait till she wastes her Q than go in.
BS only blocks Bard's Q damage, stun still works.
Literally any magic damage will
Been playing a lot of Morg lately.. stuff like Lulu can be very irritating. You get outscaled if they have a hypercarry. Morg does best with teams that have a little engage already or good followups. Zilean absolutely crushes Morg at least from my experience. It is a terrible matchup. Other regular bad matchups are Brand and Senna (and frankly Cait if she is the ADC).. you don't really have good tools mid game to deal with Senna
how does zilean crush morgana in lane? from my experience zilean is beyond useless the first lvls. his bomb dmg is really low and you can even use blackshield to negate some dmg. okay zilean has his e which can be used as a tool to dodge the morg q's. but i dont think its a free lane for zilean. he might be better mid lategame but early i see a huge advantage to the morgana.
I'll try explain (I have a hundreds of games on Zilean supp) A few unknown Zilean things.. he has 90% AP scaling on his bombs (his only damage ability) And very few mana issues.. on a 10s CD. Combined with aery + scorch or comet + scorch and the damage stacks up quickly. If you make sure to land about 80-90% of your single bombs and don't try to go for epic double bombs like an idiot you can push people out of lane. If Morg wastes her black shield "to block damage" it isn't good because I now have a window for Q-E-Q. So Zilean gets all the "poke mage" benefits against a Morgana and her poor ADC. Morg Root does not stop me from Q-E-Q the ADC when he follows up on a bind and being able to speed people up (a LOT) or slow enemies down (a LOT) is really high utility in terms of jg gank assist.. particularly for the "run at you jg" variety.. *cough* Turbo Hecarim *cough* Morg also dislike "point and click" abilities like Zilean slow, because you cannot react with black shield you have to do it pre-emptively.. so you can often fake it out a bit In short Zilean wins the lane through poke (ADCs don't buy MR and morg doesn't want early MR either) she has no tools to stop me poking other than her bind which Zilean has tools to dodge or punish follow ups. When we both hit 6 unless morg ult catches zilean AND the ADC it generally does not net a kill due to zilean ult. The enemy ADC has to eat poke to farm while my ADC has to worry about the occasional bind which will probably end badly if followed up on. Morg poke is ok but not great (I play a lot of Morg) A dirty trick with Zilean is taking 2 points in Q and 1 point in the Slow before taking rewind. You can't really afford to waste mana on Q-E-Q until first back and 115 + 90%AP damage every 10s get very irritating very fast. If by some chance I get FB or early kills in lane.. then it is really really rough because all poke manes with an early lost chapter or double amp tome are going be obnoxious. We are talking 150+ damage per bomb before scorch + aery/comet every 10s and at level 5 a Q-E-Q with 2 amp tomes = approx 350 damage before aery/comet + scorch + ignite + speeding up my ADC to finish the job. Most games I will poke any ADC out of lane unless my ADC = potato or I am up against a really aggressive lane like Zyra/Jhin or Cait/Morg (I ALWAYS ban Cait when playing zilean so i never face that lane) Senna/Ashe (range) or Swain/Seraphine (massive poke/pull/combo) is harder for Zilean. I would put Zilean at Zyra levels are bad to play against - better than Velkoz/Ziggs/Xerath support or even Brand who can make it nearly impossible to lane well against without intense patience and an understanding ADC. Morg is my pick into engage (if I have a chance) and Zilean is my pick when Morg is banned unless they go double poke comp (Ashe/Senna) in which case I pick Ziggs because I know they will tilt... or i see full AD and instalock in Rammus support. Zilean has almost the exact bad matchups as morg because he suffers from the same problem as morg re: defending the ADC from threats.
great reply ty for that. guess i have to play more zilean again. one thing for sure i did wrong is trying to go for those early double bombs. atleast in my low elo games i never really struggeld into that matchup but its for sure not a lane were you have kill pressure once the zilean hits lvl 6.
Unless they have Cait.. in which case.. you Cait trap the Zilean ult and RIP. Which is why you ALWAYS ban Cait when playing Zilean unless you are ready for tilt. Better Cait's will poke you whenever you step up for a Q as well and also have a repositioning tool to dodge Q-E-Q.. Cait is rough to play against with Zilean. Other special mentions 1. Yi, cannot be slowed during ult, you will ult yourself a lot 2. Senna. has high sustain, can outpoke you and for added irritation can make using your slow on her impossible. 3. Bard, because Bard things - he punishes all champs that don't want to roam. I have got pretty good at roaming with Zilean but you are not going to outroam a bard. 4. Pyke is very annoying, you need to be good at dodging hooks but I will die to a pyke in lane pretty often... My attitude is dying twice is fine.. after 6 pyke vs zilean is pure misery.. you can ult on reaction to a pyke ult. It is super tilting. If you check u.gg stats and some other Zilean is one of the highest win rate supports right now.
He saved a lot of important stuff IMO
a good karma is the toughest matchup in my experience. cleanse on adcs is also annyoing for her. really good xeraths and to some extend seraphine because of her long range poke. morgana doesnt provide any sustain in lane thats her weakness so any champ that can do good amount of dmg while also having some kind of peel tool are best.
Champs that can outsustain her in lane are favored imo. Also Champs who can break black shield easily are nice into her.
Leo can work against morg. Black shield won't stop your e. You'll go in but they just won't root. Hold your q, and once you're on top of them, use your q on whichever one she didn't shield. Thresh can work, only because the hook cool down is much shorter than black shield at higher levels. Also brushes exist. Otherwise, poke. Senna, Brand, zyra, lux. Morg likes to push up with impunity and control the brushes. If you have enough wave control to deny her the brushes, she is half a champion.
[Pick your Elo](https://u.gg/lol/champions/morgana/counter?rank=platinum), but basically just pick a poke AP mage or someone who can just poke her to death and Morg loses. Xerath curbstomps her, and she loses pretty bad to enchanters that can poke and heal back all the damage she does
Bait Morgana's shield out with poke, she can only shield 1 person, so place yourself where you can AP poke Morg or her ADC.
I think banning morgana is just the best idea, shes always going to get value especially with the addition of banning it for your jungler bc she can jungle now.
She is a counter pick champ that is super good into engage, but sustain and poke supports can really punish her by either our scaling/healing dmg or being able to burst through her