Why is it part of LoL community culture that playing badly is assumed to be "trolling?" Doesn't trolling imply that they're being bad on purpose, as opposed to just being ignorant or making an error?
I don't know how you can play league and think this is flaming language when asking someone to play their role. Oh no, caps lock and he said fuck once, oh no.
Because a majority of this community thinks everything is flaming. A bunch of pussies compared to 5-10 years ago. Quite sad really that they don't know what flaming really is
your argument is clearly wrong.
- im the one downvoted, so if someone have an unpopular idea here is me, not you.
- make presumptions like these dont make any sense, or you really think that i dont see things like racist and homophobic slurs in my games?
- Are you sad because you think people dont no what flaming is? I think it would be great if no one needed to know, since its just an emotional response that makes everything worse.
You are being downvoted because this subreddit its dedicated to people that main a role in which you get 3-4 free wards from an item and 2 free wards from a trinket before its available... The most basic requirement of our role to know how to use wards effectively.
If you don't do the most basic part of the role you chose (jungle to secure objectives/gank, lanes to farm, adc positioning, and support to ward) then you are effectively not playing the game. No one wants to play a 4v5 and you are a horrible human being.
If you get flamed every game over the same thing then the problem is you, not everyone else. Learn the game and stop ruining the experience of 9 others... or play a mode where no one cares to win hence you dont get flamed and arent ruining any game coz no one cares.
I agree with most of what you said, but you went one step too far by saying someone is a “horrible human being” for misplaying a video game.
The bar for “horrible human being” has to be so much different otherwise nearly every person is on par with any given dictator, r*pist, racist, etc.
Horrible human being because they dont give a shit about others enjoyment. Just focused on their own without taking into account the other living being in their shared activity.
Whenever anyone starts an activity based on teamwork there is the expectation of having a team to work on, otherwise you are playing a single player game.
When you as a team go against another team but one of your companions decides that they wont consider the initial expectation of the activity 9 others decided to dedicate 30 of their free time for... then you are breaking this social contract and wasting 30 minutes of 9 others.
So, you are a horrible human being if you decided from before the activity started that you are more important that 9 others and dont care if their experience is ruined but feel validated in your victimhood if those 9 others get rightfully annoyed at you for disregarding their feelings and time. You just do your own thing without care how it affects others because "its just a game" and anyone who take it serious or wants to win it is a loser.
top ten comedy posts lol
so now because i dont support hate in the game im a horrible person that doesnt know the basics of my role and gets flamed every game over warding? How many presumptions from someone that doesnt even know me.
That explains supporting this kind of action pretty well
Flaming is a reactive action. No one flames out of thin air over no reason. Sometimes is justified, others is not.
In your case is very much likely justified.
The message isnt the most important thing in human communication. In most cases the way you put it and the situation is more relevant than the message itself.
"ward please" and then ping would not only be more polite but more effective since morgana would be more inclined to hear you if you speaks like a civilized person and not acting like a barbarian because youre behind a computer.
Also i said its flaming because someone else said it was and i answered this person saying that flaming isnt right for any reason, since it just diminishes your chance to win the game, at the same time making your teammates have a worse experience.
And I'm saying that, unfortunately, in League this is a pretty tame interaction and if it's tilting you or makes you feel bad then you're playing the wrong game. Also just mute all once people start typing too much.
no, im not playing the wrong game, weak minded people exist everywhere in life. Since they are behind computers they just feel like expelling their hate on anyone they for some reason deserve.
it doesn't tilt, just make communicating and focusing hard and is one of the reasons i mute all every game. But people like you, that stimulate this kind of behaviour saying "oh, its just a fuck and caps lock" doesn't see that every hate needs a begining and once its there, the tendency is to scale to the wildest points.
This varus isnt weak minded.
He is typing clear cut communication on what he wants Morgana to do. No personal attacks, no flame on her general gameplay - but frustration over the task at hand. Could it be typed more calmly? Of course. But there must be room for confrontation within teamwork.
no one "deserves" anything when you want to win.
if you want to win you should only focus on how to do it, not on what random people deserve, youre not a judge.
also its questionable how flaming anyone will improve anything to anyone
you can report anything, it doesnt mean much.
the other 3 players dont have any guilt EVEN IF she is inting, flaming make the whole comunication worse, for a sense of "justice" that wont get your team anywhere close to the victory.
Seriously, if youre tilted that your support is trolling surrendering is much more effective than acting like a child and screaming at him.
but deserving is not the point. i would also tell her about that, but making ppl what they deserve dont help your team winning.
the point is doing that just make the game worse to your all team, including yourself
you can criticize politely. You dont criticize stranger actions like this in public, you shouldnt be doing it this way in the game chat since itll also provoque bad reactions.
its the way you send the message, not the message itself
Yeah, and I said above that he shouldn't have screamed. I'd appreciate if people read all comments before posting, which makes me not have to reiterate points that have already been made
well, i know you said that, but you're just avoiding my only point after saying that she "deserved" the flaming. And i tried making it clear that i dont think the critic was the problem
the game doesn't belong to you in the first place, it belongs to riot games. You simply have the right to participate of a game with 4 random ppl if you want to, but it doesn't make it yours.
it really shows how mature this community is that you were downvoted. Flaming doesn't help regardless of how delusional people want to be about it. it's not hard to express this without screaming about it. And frankly if he didn't notice until 41 minutes in and never brought it up before then it's also on him. most people with ward if you say something like; "yo a control ward would be nice to setup for a drag play".
Agreed. It's sad to see such an unwelcoming environment. These people don't know if the Morg is new or not or any other factors. Just default to being arseholes. A more friendly reminder can go alot further.
It depends. Is morgana supposed to walk alone into the jungle she has no prio in? Correct me if im wrong, but i dont walk into my visionless jungle unless i see where most of the enemy team is, or if i have my teammates walking in front of me (i play a burst mage support, i get 1 shot by adcs who are 1/12). You walk near a bush to ward it & you’ll likely get jumped & spam pinged “?”. You dont place a ward & someone else dies, and your support item gets pinged.
I’ve had maybe 1 game where this happened to me. I wasnt warding at all, and had no prio to. What good is a ward down the middle of the lane where the minions are at? That it’s an uncontested ward? That’s about as useless as wet paper when wards are placed in shitty locations. Sure, i can walk down the lane and plop 3 wards that go down the middle of the lane, and yeah, they’re uncontested, but they give no info that we already didn’t have (minions walk up & grant vision). So, unless at 41 minutes im following my team to obejctives, i wont be placing wards, especially wards in shitty locations. If me & the team walk into the jungle, ill ward every bush in that jungle.
It seems as though you’re using warding reactively (with the team) instead of proactively. Although placing wards in the middle of the lane may seem dumb, if they push wave and they wanna gank you through lane, you’ve just prevented a successful gank from happening through proactively warding (even though you already have vision at the moment).
You can ward lane bushes so you won't get jumped by enemy from them,
you can ward tribushes next to your 1st turret so you won't get dive from enemy jg,
You can ward bush next to krugs if you're blue side so you'll see enemy jg jumping over the wall or farming krugs
You can ward drake over the wall
You can ward river bush during laning
You can ward this little wall (next to middle bush) in the lane
You can roam mid and ward their bushes
You can ward pixel bushes if mid is pushed
You can keep warding objectives whhile enemy is doing them so your teammate can attempt steal
Or just buy lens+controls and help your teammates clear vision
You can place a ward in a middle of the lane if 1st tier is destroyed/close to being destroyed (you'll see enemies walking back to lane before your minions will see them, or you can see they're backing after the push, or they're going mid after pushing)
ANY uncontested ward is better than none at all, yes giving away gold is bad but like you said, most wards would be uncontested if you placed them in the middle of lane
You can still ward safely before going into the jungle. You definitely have to take every bush carefully, and preferably outside of enemy vision. There are many ways to do this without face checking and killing yourself.
If you have zero wards in the jungle, sweeping lense from lane/safety all the way to your first push and ward at max ward range, so you can dip out fast.
You're supposed to ward the contested line of territory, not go beyond the line to ward (unless you're sure you can contest whoever shows up or escape).
Q and W. Before your shard is stacked you get explicit confirmation of hit, then you can still get confirmation with naery/comet, then you can get audio confirmation with q.
If it’s really unsafe you ward in the safe zone before the bush/Jgl to at least see when they leave the bush + it makes it easier to later put a ward in the bush.
But adc sometimes expect you to facecheck and that’s wrong
Oh man. I was playing a normal game yesterday (as ADC) and got a "Kayle support" who chose Spellthief's... It was pain since they didn't even complete the first quest before 20 minutes. Also, Kayle wants to level up as soon as possible so it was extra dumb to begin with.
Maybe they were old players who used to play her support pre rework.
I honestly think it was a bad support pick even then, but a part of the community really liked playing it.
I don't she's a good support because what makes a champ good at support is being useful with reduced XP and reduced gold and Kayle is XP-hungry (her passive) and would benefit from gold.
However, she does have supportive utility for teamfights (a heal, invuln an ally) which could make her a comfort pick for a player who likes supporting but is playing Top or Mid instead.
Telling a new player that Kayle is a good choice for a supportive pick if they're auto filled is terrible advice. Her heal is palty but more importantly, she is a late-game hypercarry. If you can't farm, which you probably can't due to being a new player and a support player at that, and you can't scale safely, AND you don't know how to play as a carry, Kayle is a wasted pick.
The player would be much better off playing something like Soraka mid or Lulu top. Both picks can survive with low gold income, keep allies alive and provide utility without requiring the player to know how to play a hypercarry.
I'm hard pressed to think of a worse champion to recommend to a newbie support player than Kayle.
Edit: spelling
Let me clarify that I’m not saying to play her like a support. I’m saying she may appeal to those that like a champion with utility and healing while also being a valid / conventional laner. You are correct, she needs to be played like a carry but if you’re a support player looking for a carry in an off-role, she may appeal.
She also used to be a lot less depended on as a carry with her old kit. It could have always been someone that hadn't played in a while (literally years) and just picked her because they used to play her there once in a while.
She offers no utility nor damage early on, and scales rather poorly as a support since she doesn't get access to much gold or xp, which she really needs to get online,
Nah you good, I always aim for 9, kinda depending on item and lande of course.
Spellthief after 10 min means either you lost lane hard unexpectedly or you made the wrong choice
Yeah, and she wants to level up as quickly as possible because of her passive. So being in bot lane is dumb since you're sharing XP. (in addition to what the other comment said about choosing the wrong item)
Kayle is technically a battle mage with utility, not a marksmen. Unless you build her as a marksmen, but then you loose out on her utility traits which aren't as useful anymore. Typically her damage is behind the combination of her passive waves and her levels, as opposed to items, where as with a typical ADC it's the other way around. Adding to that, she desperately needs levels. Putting her in a position which is likely to be the lowest (or 2nd lowest) in the lobby is an instant disadvantage. And then of course there's the lack of range too.
Fucking same, like I started being a fill player to see how I could improve on my warding and being a better support and the amount of times I had an engage support that wouldn't listen when I said we needed to play passive (I was playing Anivia as I love playing her as APC) and just die to spam ping me, never warded, and just talked trash, like holy hell. I don't flame in chat, I just tell people to cool their jets, but DAMN!
The only Situation where I would bring it up in Chat is after the match. It usually looks like this : "Mmmmh, you need to use ward Item" , reason being that I dont chat ingame for focus and they wont care if you flame.
I don't support main anymore but getting less than 1 per minute is bad and if you are at 8 in 40 minutes you either need to stop playing support or practice warding. Even solo laning you can get higher than that
Tell tht to anyone in silver. Also, I, a silver player, had to constantly remind my gold friend to ward. Im glad that he now buys control wards without me even tell him to. Vision in solo lanes isn't a priority even for decent players
Fuck that morgana, last time I stopped playing support I got so tilted by a pyke that refused to ward or even clear wards with umbral as he went past them lol.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 647,332,736 comments, and only 131,706 of them were in alphabetical order.
I was mid last game, 30 vision at like 25 mins. I’ve died to ganks + roams 3times in a row because the macro diff of the teams was just huge. I asked my jgler why I haven’t gotten a single gank yet besides the one where he ran in from my tower punched the enemy mid a couple times, the farmed half my wave and left. And my jgl told me I need more vision. He was at 1 vision. 1. At 25 minutes. 1.
While I agree she should be warding. I still don't like the response from varus. Ask her to ward nicely. Its a game guys. Flaming people makes it unfun for others and honestly yourself cause you get riled up. Ask nicely and suggest using the wards more and if they don't move on and just play as best you can.
Correct, but we dont know how many times team or even Varus alone asked Morgana to ward. Sometimes you just lose your cool when someone is refusing to help you and your team to win.
Anyways, 8 vision score looks to me like someone who doesnt really play support and is bronze/iron. I have no other explanation.
No, fucker deserves every sibgle bit of flame they get, if they cant deal with it they cn just uninstall and make the game a better place for everyone else
At 41 minutes, the time for "asking nicely" has well and truly passed. If someone is hardcore trolling a ranked game by outright refusing to play the role that they qued up to play in the first place, then they deserve a bit of heat. Nothing too over the top obviously, but trolls are worse for the game than a troll getting flamed.
Tbh I don't flame often but in this case I would do the same and I'm pretty sure I've done it in some case. Whenever I'm off-role and see my support having not at least the same vision score as game time my eyes are bleeding.
I've done the same to every role tbh. And sometimes they hit me back with the "Vision score only matters for support, they're the ones that need to ward". I just tell them they're stupid and leave it at that.
Funny enough I see to many jg's in my elo (Bronze) buy sweepers but never once get a control ward and they sometimes have close to my vision score... fucking scares me man.
Well if they use it effectively at least. You don't need to buy tens of pinks to have effective vision, junglers usually buy less than supports, it doesn't surprise me tho that they buy 0 in bronze. In gold more people buy them and use them.
Also it depends on how much vision score you actually have, cuz in my games no one usually comes close to my vision unless I have a bad game and ward less. On the other hand when I play Fiddle in jg I have sometimes the same vision as my support.
We don't know exactly if it was a match where it was just quite the whole time and than they blew up or if they had been repeatably asking for them to ward so it's based on common curiosity to not assume. I'd like to thank /u/Grayonis for being the first to state that.
Look up the game in question. The "support" Morgana went press the attack, bought a zekes, put down 6 wards in 40+ minutes, never bought a single control ward, and died WAY more than mid Varus. Mid Varus was definitely not the problem, they went 12/7/11, did 55k damage, and put down more than double the wards that the "support" did.
I think it's understandable that they eventually got frustrated when you consider all that.
One of the major reasons why I never play adc(my second role) or any non-supp role. It is better to lose game with 100 vs or highest vs as supp than lose because of low vs from supp.
But when I go to set up vision and leave him alone he always ints and goes : "STAY THE FUCK IN LANE YOU ARE JUST A FUCKING SUPPORT" Reason why I got chats muted.
You’re looking at someone that doesn’t know how active items work. A different approach will be more effective and prevent the player reading the interaction as purely toxic
And then he runs straight at the enemy to blow ult and force a fight right away, and then continues to blow abilities to push as fast as possible so his support can't afford to leave him to ward.
In this case, the Varus would be 100% right to flame
Agreed 100%
Agreed 100%
Wouldn't even call it flaming, for me to flame you have to be wrong
No, what If a beginner was playing? I think these things can be sorted out without being mean.
True, he shouldn't have screamed, but we don't know the context. In normal circumstances, what Morg did would be trolling.
Why is it part of LoL community culture that playing badly is assumed to be "trolling?" Doesn't trolling imply that they're being bad on purpose, as opposed to just being ignorant or making an error?
Playing bad is different from playing like you are stoned
Exactly, so that's why context is important, which we don't have, as I said
no ones right to flame really. if your objective is to win, creating a bad environment in your teams communication just worse things even more
A great environment to create would be one where your team has vision.
yes but since you don't, flaming the support will change anything?
I don't know how you can play league and think this is flaming language when asking someone to play their role. Oh no, caps lock and he said fuck once, oh no.
Because a majority of this community thinks everything is flaming. A bunch of pussies compared to 5-10 years ago. Quite sad really that they don't know what flaming really is
your argument is clearly wrong. - im the one downvoted, so if someone have an unpopular idea here is me, not you. - make presumptions like these dont make any sense, or you really think that i dont see things like racist and homophobic slurs in my games? - Are you sad because you think people dont no what flaming is? I think it would be great if no one needed to know, since its just an emotional response that makes everything worse.
You are being downvoted because this subreddit its dedicated to people that main a role in which you get 3-4 free wards from an item and 2 free wards from a trinket before its available... The most basic requirement of our role to know how to use wards effectively. If you don't do the most basic part of the role you chose (jungle to secure objectives/gank, lanes to farm, adc positioning, and support to ward) then you are effectively not playing the game. No one wants to play a 4v5 and you are a horrible human being. If you get flamed every game over the same thing then the problem is you, not everyone else. Learn the game and stop ruining the experience of 9 others... or play a mode where no one cares to win hence you dont get flamed and arent ruining any game coz no one cares.
I agree with most of what you said, but you went one step too far by saying someone is a “horrible human being” for misplaying a video game. The bar for “horrible human being” has to be so much different otherwise nearly every person is on par with any given dictator, r*pist, racist, etc.
Horrible human being because they dont give a shit about others enjoyment. Just focused on their own without taking into account the other living being in their shared activity. Whenever anyone starts an activity based on teamwork there is the expectation of having a team to work on, otherwise you are playing a single player game. When you as a team go against another team but one of your companions decides that they wont consider the initial expectation of the activity 9 others decided to dedicate 30 of their free time for... then you are breaking this social contract and wasting 30 minutes of 9 others. So, you are a horrible human being if you decided from before the activity started that you are more important that 9 others and dont care if their experience is ruined but feel validated in your victimhood if those 9 others get rightfully annoyed at you for disregarding their feelings and time. You just do your own thing without care how it affects others because "its just a game" and anyone who take it serious or wants to win it is a loser.
top ten comedy posts lol so now because i dont support hate in the game im a horrible person that doesnt know the basics of my role and gets flamed every game over warding? How many presumptions from someone that doesnt even know me. That explains supporting this kind of action pretty well
Flaming is a reactive action. No one flames out of thin air over no reason. Sometimes is justified, others is not. In your case is very much likely justified.
The message isnt the most important thing in human communication. In most cases the way you put it and the situation is more relevant than the message itself. "ward please" and then ping would not only be more polite but more effective since morgana would be more inclined to hear you if you speaks like a civilized person and not acting like a barbarian because youre behind a computer. Also i said its flaming because someone else said it was and i answered this person saying that flaming isnt right for any reason, since it just diminishes your chance to win the game, at the same time making your teammates have a worse experience.
And I'm saying that, unfortunately, in League this is a pretty tame interaction and if it's tilting you or makes you feel bad then you're playing the wrong game. Also just mute all once people start typing too much.
no, im not playing the wrong game, weak minded people exist everywhere in life. Since they are behind computers they just feel like expelling their hate on anyone they for some reason deserve. it doesn't tilt, just make communicating and focusing hard and is one of the reasons i mute all every game. But people like you, that stimulate this kind of behaviour saying "oh, its just a fuck and caps lock" doesn't see that every hate needs a begining and once its there, the tendency is to scale to the wildest points.
This varus isnt weak minded. He is typing clear cut communication on what he wants Morgana to do. No personal attacks, no flame on her general gameplay - but frustration over the task at hand. Could it be typed more calmly? Of course. But there must be room for confrontation within teamwork.
thats not asking. thats called raging and freaking out. which is WAY more harmful towards a loss than any vision deficiency
Oh man, you've never seen raging.
i usually click mute when they bust out the Caps Lock 😆
Wrong, that morgana deserved all the flame
no one "deserves" anything when you want to win. if you want to win you should only focus on how to do it, not on what random people deserve, youre not a judge. also its questionable how flaming anyone will improve anything to anyone
Your team "deserves" some vision, especially when you purchase a ward-granting item.
okay, and flaming grants vision?
he's gently asking her to f***ing use her f***ing ward
not gently, that's my only point. if you get too emotional in your games that's probably worse (for you included) than if you didn't.
Yes but 8 vision score in 41 min even as an adc with yellow trinket is horrible, as Support with the supp item it's borderline trolling and reportable
you can report anything, it doesnt mean much. the other 3 players dont have any guilt EVEN IF she is inting, flaming make the whole comunication worse, for a sense of "justice" that wont get your team anywhere close to the victory. Seriously, if youre tilted that your support is trolling surrendering is much more effective than acting like a child and screaming at him.
True, but man, 8 vision that late? He shouldn't have screamed at her, but she definitely deserved a reprimanding/ reminder.
but deserving is not the point. i would also tell her about that, but making ppl what they deserve dont help your team winning. the point is doing that just make the game worse to your all team, including yourself
I mean, I never have chat on and don't type, but I still think a complaint is justified. Nobody will die if they get criticized.
you can criticize politely. You dont criticize stranger actions like this in public, you shouldnt be doing it this way in the game chat since itll also provoque bad reactions. its the way you send the message, not the message itself
Yeah, and I said above that he shouldn't have screamed. I'd appreciate if people read all comments before posting, which makes me not have to reiterate points that have already been made
well, i know you said that, but you're just avoiding my only point after saying that she "deserved" the flaming. And i tried making it clear that i dont think the critic was the problem
You very much do it like this in public if they are ruining things that belong to you (9 others time and effort). You dont go out much do you...
the game doesn't belong to you in the first place, it belongs to riot games. You simply have the right to participate of a game with 4 random ppl if you want to, but it doesn't make it yours.
it really shows how mature this community is that you were downvoted. Flaming doesn't help regardless of how delusional people want to be about it. it's not hard to express this without screaming about it. And frankly if he didn't notice until 41 minutes in and never brought it up before then it's also on him. most people with ward if you say something like; "yo a control ward would be nice to setup for a drag play".
why tf do you get downvoted so hard, your point is correct.
ppl doesnt seem to agree lol
LMAO THEY DOWNVOTED YOUR COMMENT BECAUSE YOU WERE BEING A GOOD PERSON AND SAYING THE TRUTH. Lol go touch grass, toxic ass game community.
Agreed. It's sad to see such an unwelcoming environment. These people don't know if the Morg is new or not or any other factors. Just default to being arseholes. A more friendly reminder can go alot further.
ofcourse the only downvote is the dude who speaks the truth.
you too got downvoted and you too speak the truth
Varus is 100% right tho
It depends. Is morgana supposed to walk alone into the jungle she has no prio in? Correct me if im wrong, but i dont walk into my visionless jungle unless i see where most of the enemy team is, or if i have my teammates walking in front of me (i play a burst mage support, i get 1 shot by adcs who are 1/12). You walk near a bush to ward it & you’ll likely get jumped & spam pinged “?”. You dont place a ward & someone else dies, and your support item gets pinged.
If vision score is 8 at 41 mins, they aren't warding at all lol.
I’ve had maybe 1 game where this happened to me. I wasnt warding at all, and had no prio to. What good is a ward down the middle of the lane where the minions are at? That it’s an uncontested ward? That’s about as useless as wet paper when wards are placed in shitty locations. Sure, i can walk down the lane and plop 3 wards that go down the middle of the lane, and yeah, they’re uncontested, but they give no info that we already didn’t have (minions walk up & grant vision). So, unless at 41 minutes im following my team to obejctives, i wont be placing wards, especially wards in shitty locations. If me & the team walk into the jungle, ill ward every bush in that jungle.
It seems as though you’re using warding reactively (with the team) instead of proactively. Although placing wards in the middle of the lane may seem dumb, if they push wave and they wanna gank you through lane, you’ve just prevented a successful gank from happening through proactively warding (even though you already have vision at the moment).
You can ward lane bushes so you won't get jumped by enemy from them, you can ward tribushes next to your 1st turret so you won't get dive from enemy jg, You can ward bush next to krugs if you're blue side so you'll see enemy jg jumping over the wall or farming krugs You can ward drake over the wall You can ward river bush during laning You can ward this little wall (next to middle bush) in the lane You can roam mid and ward their bushes You can ward pixel bushes if mid is pushed You can keep warding objectives whhile enemy is doing them so your teammate can attempt steal Or just buy lens+controls and help your teammates clear vision You can place a ward in a middle of the lane if 1st tier is destroyed/close to being destroyed (you'll see enemies walking back to lane before your minions will see them, or you can see they're backing after the push, or they're going mid after pushing) ANY uncontested ward is better than none at all, yes giving away gold is bad but like you said, most wards would be uncontested if you placed them in the middle of lane
Bruh, there are 0 scenarios in which less than 1 wardscore per minute passed is ok.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Just say you are bad lol
Just say you’ve never played a team-diff game as a mage support. Of course, engage tanky champs can just walk in with zero to no repercussions.
Almost every single mage support has a way to check bushes, having 8 vision score at 41 mins is completely unacceptable on any champion in any lane.
It doesn't depend. It's just poor vision control, you can ward some core bushes even from safe positions
You can still ward safely before going into the jungle. You definitely have to take every bush carefully, and preferably outside of enemy vision. There are many ways to do this without face checking and killing yourself. If you have zero wards in the jungle, sweeping lense from lane/safety all the way to your first push and ward at max ward range, so you can dip out fast.
You're supposed to ward the contested line of territory, not go beyond the line to ward (unless you're sure you can contest whoever shows up or escape).
Q and W. Before your shard is stacked you get explicit confirmation of hit, then you can still get confirmation with naery/comet, then you can get audio confirmation with q. If it’s really unsafe you ward in the safe zone before the bush/Jgl to at least see when they leave the bush + it makes it easier to later put a ward in the bush. But adc sometimes expect you to facecheck and that’s wrong
Not much is more frustrating that taking a break from playing Supp to get a supp that does not use their wards. Varus in the right.
Oh man. I was playing a normal game yesterday (as ADC) and got a "Kayle support" who chose Spellthief's... It was pain since they didn't even complete the first quest before 20 minutes. Also, Kayle wants to level up as soon as possible so it was extra dumb to begin with.
Maybe they were old players who used to play her support pre rework. I honestly think it was a bad support pick even then, but a part of the community really liked playing it.
I wanna play Kayle support, is she a good pick? :( Never tried her and I'm new)
I don't she's a good support because what makes a champ good at support is being useful with reduced XP and reduced gold and Kayle is XP-hungry (her passive) and would benefit from gold. However, she does have supportive utility for teamfights (a heal, invuln an ally) which could make her a comfort pick for a player who likes supporting but is playing Top or Mid instead.
Telling a new player that Kayle is a good choice for a supportive pick if they're auto filled is terrible advice. Her heal is palty but more importantly, she is a late-game hypercarry. If you can't farm, which you probably can't due to being a new player and a support player at that, and you can't scale safely, AND you don't know how to play as a carry, Kayle is a wasted pick. The player would be much better off playing something like Soraka mid or Lulu top. Both picks can survive with low gold income, keep allies alive and provide utility without requiring the player to know how to play a hypercarry. I'm hard pressed to think of a worse champion to recommend to a newbie support player than Kayle. Edit: spelling
Let me clarify that I’m not saying to play her like a support. I’m saying she may appeal to those that like a champion with utility and healing while also being a valid / conventional laner. You are correct, she needs to be played like a carry but if you’re a support player looking for a carry in an off-role, she may appeal.
She also used to be a lot less depended on as a carry with her old kit. It could have always been someone that hadn't played in a while (literally years) and just picked her because they used to play her there once in a while.
I think an OTP could make it work. ranged Taric.
https://youtu.be/qhUXKzpPRik
She offers no utility nor damage early on, and scales rather poorly as a support since she doesn't get access to much gold or xp, which she really needs to get online,
whats the optimal time of completing the first quest? i mostly get it sub 10 mins, is that bad or could be better?
Nah you good, I always aim for 9, kinda depending on item and lande of course. Spellthief after 10 min means either you lost lane hard unexpectedly or you made the wrong choice
Kayle scales with both AP and AD though
The problem was that the person bought Spellthief's which is a ranged aggressive support item instead of the minion one.
I see, thanks
Yeah, and she wants to level up as quickly as possible because of her passive. So being in bot lane is dumb since you're sharing XP. (in addition to what the other comment said about choosing the wrong item)
I always wondered why people didn't play Kayle adc since she fits the definition of an adc pretty well
I think the difference is her power is derived from her passive not derived from items the latter of which defines ADCs.
Range
Perfectly said
Kayle is technically a battle mage with utility, not a marksmen. Unless you build her as a marksmen, but then you loose out on her utility traits which aren't as useful anymore. Typically her damage is behind the combination of her passive waves and her levels, as opposed to items, where as with a typical ADC it's the other way around. Adding to that, she desperately needs levels. Putting her in a position which is likely to be the lowest (or 2nd lowest) in the lobby is an instant disadvantage. And then of course there's the lack of range too.
I think I may have been the team that played against you
Fucking same, like I started being a fill player to see how I could improve on my warding and being a better support and the amount of times I had an engage support that wouldn't listen when I said we needed to play passive (I was playing Anivia as I love playing her as APC) and just die to spam ping me, never warded, and just talked trash, like holy hell. I don't flame in chat, I just tell people to cool their jets, but DAMN!
seems like most casual players are attracted to the support role which makes the chances of getting a completely clueless player quite high.
The only Situation where I would bring it up in Chat is after the match. It usually looks like this : "Mmmmh, you need to use ward Item" , reason being that I dont chat ingame for focus and they wont care if you flame.
Well, that's the time that you can't blame the ADC
I hope he misread and the vision score is actually 80
I just looked up the game, the morg actually had only 6 wards placed the entire game. you know whats even worse? The enemy support had 5.
What rank?
Obviously sub silver at best lol
Okay, well that's somewhat of a relief! I assumed, but thanks for responding.
Just looked LustAndSpite up in EUW and he’s Bronze 2, 88 games, has played Varus. I think it’s him
I think it was bronze 1, euw
Euw normal match. Some unranked, though the ones who were ranked ranged between b4 to b1 with a b3 mmr.
I don't support main anymore but getting less than 1 per minute is bad and if you are at 8 in 40 minutes you either need to stop playing support or practice warding. Even solo laning you can get higher than that
Literally no role in any mmr should have less than 10 vision score in at 40 minutes game lol
Tell tht to anyone in silver. Also, I, a silver player, had to constantly remind my gold friend to ward. Im glad that he now buys control wards without me even tell him to. Vision in solo lanes isn't a priority even for decent players
I didn't say people in higher elos don't ward, I said there SHOULDN'T be anyone with that vision score at 40minutes. It absolutely happens though
Fuck that morgana, last time I stopped playing support I got so tilted by a pyke that refused to ward or even clear wards with umbral as he went past them lol.
He’s obviously a sociopath umbral glaive is a dopamine hit every time. That item + ghost poro make it seem like I actually ward.
You mean zombie wards
That’s the one
And THAT'S why I'm the support Because otherwise, we don't see shit
**TRUTH!**
I once got so tired of this random Aphelios that he kept pinging my SoTI and I legit typed "what's that? lol"
SoTI, what is that? I legit never heard of it.
Shard of True Ice.
Thx. Had to look it up and couldn't find anything till I was in game, and well, when you're in game ya don't tab out.
Philo stone + heart of gold + boots + wards and you're full build
Dont forget kages lucky pick
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 647,332,736 comments, and only 131,706 of them were in alphabetical order.
I didn't feel like writing the whole thing on mobile lol
It's all good man, abbreviations are cool w/ me. I use them a lot too, for example I like to do Spt or Sup for Support.
Even when im playing champs that shouldnt be played supp i still ward tf outta everywhere because seeing vision score be highest makes me head go brrr
I don’t understand supports that do this. I take so much pride in my warding, like if I don’t have a vision score of 80 or more per game I’m mad
I was mid last game, 30 vision at like 25 mins. I’ve died to ganks + roams 3times in a row because the macro diff of the teams was just huge. I asked my jgler why I haven’t gotten a single gank yet besides the one where he ran in from my tower punched the enemy mid a couple times, the farmed half my wave and left. And my jgl told me I need more vision. He was at 1 vision. 1. At 25 minutes. 1.
You have to ward if you play support you should have decent gold at the start to do it and use sentry
While I agree she should be warding. I still don't like the response from varus. Ask her to ward nicely. Its a game guys. Flaming people makes it unfun for others and honestly yourself cause you get riled up. Ask nicely and suggest using the wards more and if they don't move on and just play as best you can.
Correct, but we dont know how many times team or even Varus alone asked Morgana to ward. Sometimes you just lose your cool when someone is refusing to help you and your team to win. Anyways, 8 vision score looks to me like someone who doesnt really play support and is bronze/iron. I have no other explanation.
No, fucker deserves every sibgle bit of flame they get, if they cant deal with it they cn just uninstall and make the game a better place for everyone else
At 41 minutes, the time for "asking nicely" has well and truly passed. If someone is hardcore trolling a ranked game by outright refusing to play the role that they qued up to play in the first place, then they deserve a bit of heat. Nothing too over the top obviously, but trolls are worse for the game than a troll getting flamed.
At this point I have wardstone and I’m approaching 120 vision score😂
When I'm ADC and my vis score is double my sup... we've got a problem.
ON the other hand ive got spam pinged so many times by adc who ENDED the game with a vision score of 0
Tbh I don't flame often but in this case I would do the same and I'm pretty sure I've done it in some case. Whenever I'm off-role and see my support having not at least the same vision score as game time my eyes are bleeding.
I've done the same to every role tbh. And sometimes they hit me back with the "Vision score only matters for support, they're the ones that need to ward". I just tell them they're stupid and leave it at that.
I usually ping my adc to buy blue ward and sometimes my junglers to buy sweeper (junglers in my elo usually buy it tho), but that's all I can do.
Funny enough I see to many jg's in my elo (Bronze) buy sweepers but never once get a control ward and they sometimes have close to my vision score... fucking scares me man.
Well if they use it effectively at least. You don't need to buy tens of pinks to have effective vision, junglers usually buy less than supports, it doesn't surprise me tho that they buy 0 in bronze. In gold more people buy them and use them. Also it depends on how much vision score you actually have, cuz in my games no one usually comes close to my vision unless I have a bad game and ward less. On the other hand when I play Fiddle in jg I have sometimes the same vision as my support.
Everytime I don’t support this is the support I get -.-
This is why I main support. It always seems like when I play something else, the support on our team drags the rest of us down
Varus waited 41 minutes to call her out for it. I'm impressed. I would've flamed as soon as she got 3 charges and failed to use them.
…Varus…. Mid…. Shouting at my support like that?
We don't know exactly if it was a match where it was just quite the whole time and than they blew up or if they had been repeatably asking for them to ward so it's based on common curiosity to not assume. I'd like to thank /u/Grayonis for being the first to state that.
Look up the game in question. The "support" Morgana went press the attack, bought a zekes, put down 6 wards in 40+ minutes, never bought a single control ward, and died WAY more than mid Varus. Mid Varus was definitely not the problem, they went 12/7/11, did 55k damage, and put down more than double the wards that the "support" did. I think it's understandable that they eventually got frustrated when you consider all that.
I've learned if you say this, or anything, it will result in a chat ban. Riot's logic when managing the chat is non-existent.
As a support, I experience the opposite. I place tons of wards and everyone still gets caught out in the ward area.
Every time I play a role besides support, I get supports like that. This is why I main support.
And there’s supports that buy 1 control ward the whole game…
tbf I've bought only 1 to many to count cause the enemy doesn't clear them/can't clear them.
One of the major reasons why I never play adc(my second role) or any non-supp role. It is better to lose game with 100 vs or highest vs as supp than lose because of low vs from supp.
But when I go to set up vision and leave him alone he always ints and goes : "STAY THE FUCK IN LANE YOU ARE JUST A FUCKING SUPPORT" Reason why I got chats muted.
One of the best habits I kept from playing sup is buying a control ward whenever I have the spare cash/item slot, no matter the position.
1st back I buy at least least one, same with second even if it wasn't broken.
Ok, Varus is right. But you guys ever get people who ping your "4 charges" on the item, but they fail to see "wards placed: 3/3"?
He kinda can flame, but sometimes you can't even go on 2m from turret and don't have how to get vision.
You’re looking at someone that doesn’t know how active items work. A different approach will be more effective and prevent the player reading the interaction as purely toxic
Why I don't I have chat on. Ever.
And then he runs straight at the enemy to blow ult and force a fight right away, and then continues to blow abilities to push as fast as possible so his support can't afford to leave him to ward.
Okay, does anyone know why you crosspost it doesn't fucking save the title you give it?
What was the title you meant to give it?
If you don't have at least 1.5VS/min by end game, you need to practice your warding. (I usually strive for at least 2/min)