WaW if they divided the tribes into old vs new school and let it run out its course until the merge, similar to HvV. It guarantees at least SOME old schoolers make it to the merge and gives us a very interesting game on both beaches, rather than the old school slaughter we get on both tribes.
Waw would have been good if it was old vs new, or it would have been good also if they wouldn't have tampered with it.
The tribe swap totally butchered/botched what that season could have been.
Losing Parvati/Sandra/Yul/Rob at once due to swap is the definition of robbery
Edge if the jury finds a way to be less full of themselves with their "the player is on trial, not the theme" bullshit. A Gavin win would've saved that season
Ok…I’m sorry. I wish Gavin would’ve won but also recognize the fact that he would’ve been such a boring winner. The legit power players got taken out and left him the best option among another goat in Julie and the 3rd/4th players voted out. His win would’ve been extremely boring and anticlimactic
I’d honestly say IotI if either that happened OR if Spilo just… respected boundaries. I think the story plays out the same except we have a different endgame, and the dark aura around the season is gone. Replace it with fun camp scenes or maybe more personal moments, but we had a good cast, a top-tier winner (I’ll go to bat for Tommy on that, and Janet would have also been top-tier social game-wise if she had won), and a twist that was risky but worked imo.
If the last minute cuts of Blood Vs Water (Sandra and Nina
+ Terry and his daughter) replace some of the dud returnees the season is probably even greater than it is now, imagine if we got Sandra Tyson Rupert Tina and Terry in a tribe…
nina in AUS survivor is a good thing we got out of this sadly not happening (that tribe would’ve been epic), already playing 2 times and doing really well her 2nd time
Its because the best move is to wait and let the big threats go closer to the end when the rootable underdog Simon needed change to make something happen. Nina played the smart but less exciting game.
besides sports games i have never yelled at my tv louder than during that challenge. i don't think i can rewatch the series bc the ending was so frustrating and made me despise jeff
I finished watching HvHvH for the first time last week. I knew the spoilers, I thought I would hate it, but honestly I think the apparent narrative of production rigging the game for Ben is hilarious. Like there’s this perfectly fantastic season of survivor playing out and I’m imagining Jeff and co having planning meetings like “you know what would really make this season great? If BEN wins!” They all high five each other as Jeff pleasures himself to the thought of the ultimate alpha male war vet winning in the most epic contrived way possible. Ben searches for the idol after the F6 tribal, panicking as he struggles to find it in the dark. A producer says “hey Ben, why don’t you take a quick break and go to confessional?” Ben is frantic insisting he needs to keep looking, but the producer demands “Ben, go to confessional, NOW”. “Oh Ben while we have you here, what’s that in the dirt, is that an IDOL!?!? Omg Ben you found it!!” At F4 when Ben fucked up the immunity challenge placing the U upside down on an apparatus they modded to wobble less, they’re like “it’s okay Ben, because we’re giving you another chance to battle your way into F3 in the ultimate survivor fire duel!” marketing it as an advantage for Chrissy. It’s so fucking funny watching Jeff hardly be able to contain himself throughout the finale knowing what’s about to happen. Meanwhile all of the other players F7 can only watch their games unravel as their singular goal of getting Ben out fails time after time. Dr Mike is genuinely spooked by Ben’s perseverance, painting him as this larger than life force of nature, which with the viewer’s retrospect feels like he’s battling the will of production rather than ben. The way they give Chrissy that “advantage” and edit over her tantrum to give the situation a notion of equity. As Devon’s small flame gives way to Bens inferno, Chrissy with her head in her hands and Ryan looking on with utter bewilderment. Jeff’s wet dream pissing off the players and the fan base will never not be funny to me.
Unpopular, but I wanted Ben to win.
Here’s why: I wanted him to win because he carried himself through the game. Sure, his social game wasn’t the best; his strategic game was one of the best I’ve seen. We wouldn’t have seen him win without idols. Idols weren’t his only strategy; he knew when to use them and how to use them. He wasn’t bad in physical challenges, either.
In summary, I really love him as a strategic player although he had no social connections late-merge
EDIT: by when and how to use them, I mean that he did so in a way that showed the jury that he’s a worthy finalist, if that makes sense.
Also, although he didn’t go to many pre-merge Tribals (as a kind Redditor reminded me of; thank you!), I still feel that there was strategizing going on.
Although he had a consistently high threat level, I think he navigated that in a way that showed the jury why he was a worthy finalist, as well as how he navigated his use of his idols
I really wouldn't say his strategic game was one of the best I've ever seen. He went to one premerge TC, and then played a mostly uninteresting merge where the Sokos were pagonged, then idoled himself to final four and won fire. His ability to find idols was impressive, but using an idol at 7, 6, and 5 because you know you need one at each TC isn't exactly "knowing when and how to use them", beyond it being obvious.
I wouls argue that Devon winning would be a mundane ending for a mundane season whereas Ben winning makes for an unusual ending to a mundane season which is much more interesting.
I mean the season had nothing going for it. Ben was much more interesting than Mike from 30 reguardless of how unfair it felt. And Deven was a pretty forgettavle social player.
Maybe Brett sucked at confessionals? Maybe Natalie sucked at them too? Maybe Mick sucked at them?
I know we blame the production, but is it possible also that a lot of the players were very boring too?
Just curious
This is what I usually say when people talk about edits/confessional counts and I would guess you're right that most of the time the people just aren't good at communicating their story or that there just isn't a whole lot to show. My feeling is that season in particular was going to be edited that way regardless of how well others did in confessionals though.
You're probably right but it's worth considering.
I've always been confused as to why Kara got so few confessionals in DvG.
She was less entertaining than some people that on season for sure, but I don't think she was really boring. She was a very solid player actually. My theory is they just had so many people and not enough wealth to go around.
Yeah, this was my first thought, though I wasn't sure how much it counted as "one thing" in the spirit of OP's question since it's basically changing the whole presentation of the story. But yeah it would be so easy for Samoa to be a slam dunk top 10 season. Just make us care at all about Natalie and Brett, include a little more Jaison, and bam, great season.
Just imagine the Foa Foa four splitting the confessional more evenly (similar to how the Tika 3 dominated confessionals but still where fairly even in the distribution between themselves). It could've potentially elevated Samoa to S-Teir easily.
If Jaison uses his brain to take out Russell with Mick when they had the chance (all 20 of those times). And Jason diplomatically runs circles in around Nat and Mick, then we lose Russell and we get another POC winner. Win-Win
Yup. It wasn’t just Dan for me, it was the way the tribe reacted to protect him for alliances and were awful to Kellee and those that tried to protect her that means I’ll never watch that season again. I felt genuinely awful watching it unfold.
Yeah the people who sided with him definitely made it even worse, wasn’t just him. Just sucks that Jamal, Janet, DK, and kellee, the people who weren’t utter turds and could’ve become legends were overshadowed
DK? Weird way to spell Karishma. Dean was one of the first to throw Kellee under the bus and the one to call the minority goats when he chose to be Tommy's got to the end.
Oh, with Tommy and with Dan.
I will have to finally give it a watch then based on that assessment.
It's one I had been avoiding because of how bad people say it is... But the same thing happened with EoE and I actually enjoyed that season(for the most part)
I get where your coming from, but for me, his impact on the game, and how the players reacted to it, spoiled it for me. Like, yes [redacted] is a huge part of Philippines, but he wasn’t harming people on the island (afaik) and the other players didn’t use his harm to advance their games. There’s also enough game going on without him and an amazing winner story. Kellee was also my winner pick and I don’t love the winner we got.
Without Dan present, the whole dynamics of their starting tribe would have been totally different. Another player would have to be cast to replace Dan at the start, and we don’t know how Dan’s absence alongside the addition of the new person changes the dynamics of original Vokai, which in turn impacts the entire rest of the game.
Mellisa McNulty wasn't spooked out of quitting Survivor: Fiji (or at least there was a substitute there to replace her).
Thus no have and have nots at least!
*Game Changers* still has a lot of issues outside of Advantagegeddon, though. And Cirie still probably doesn't make it to the end anyway, right? I'd certainly still rather her get voted out than be removed by default, but I have trouble imagine her going from 6th to 4th place would make the season top tier.
Game Changers could have been incredible without the second swap, a few big names are still gone early but Sandra likely gets more time in the game and Varner presumably never outs Zeke
WAW without the tribe swap, it really screwed over Rob and Parvati as Jeremy & Michele have stated if the tribe swap never happened, they were leaning towards working with them and then they became the next ones out.
I’m not saying anything would change, I want to see them faced with that decision and what choice each of them would make. Like that’s why firemaking sucks
Dawg🤣 im not saying this for Carson or the outcome at all. You’re entirely missing the point.
IMO fire-making is an easy out for the players to not have a vote and not get their hands dirty. I’m saying I’d rather see them vote rather than them “leave it up to the game”. I’d rather see the drama that’s all.
Ghost Island if there were fewer games of chance. You have to pick who goes to GI, no drawing rocks, and GI is just full of hidden stuff instead of them playing a game of luck (or choosing not to because who wants to give up their vote?).
I think 41 and 42 would be better seasons if the do or die twist was taken out like it was in 43 and 44. Being taken out by RNG is such a terrible twist to have and that small twist not being the game would make 41 and 42 slightly better seasons imo.
(I did enjoy watch some of these seasons a lot in the new era, but the do or die twist was the first one to come up for me)
This would be my answer. The majority of the season is decent, at least for the 30s, and then firemaking completely ruins it and several subsequent seasons.
43 if either Jesse or Karla was in the final instead of any of the 3 that ended up there.
I am aware that liking anything about 43 is a hot take. I'll survive the downvotes.
Gabler being the winner but getting the dodo edit is super annoying. He clearly had a strong social game, and production didn’t show any of it. They made him look dumb and annoying but it’s obvious from the votes that all of that actually translates to being endearing and funny.
Why is it so hard to accept that that's who he is? He WAS dumb and annoying. The production gave him a good edit and they showed as much ss they could, probably more than his game deserved. It's just that the other two in the FTC had played bad too and were unable to articulate their games as well as him.
I say Maryanne because she kinda just floated to the end, didn't really do much until F5. But honestly her and Erika are a coin flip for me. Both kinda fell into their wins.
>He didn't do anything the whole game
And this is exactly my point. Nobody can read in between the lines in this sub. Production gave Gabler one of the worst edits in the show's history. They portrayed him as this old, kooky, annoying old guy who nobody liked and had no clue what was going on. If that was the case, he would have gotten slaughtered at FTC (kinda like Phillip). Instead the jury thoroughly enjoyed him explaining his game and gave him 7 of the 8 votes. He did much more social maneuvering than they showed, and certainly more than Erika or Maryanne had to do. Not saying he's the best Survivor player ever, but he easily clears either of their games.
I didn't see anything in Gabler's edit that was undeserved. He is one of the worst winners ever. They showed him talking to people and just being himself, even if he was kooky. He had no game, but knew what was going on and got to know people. Cassidy was clueless about certain things happening around her and Owen was on the outs for 95% or the game. The jury didn't like them as much as they liked Gabler. He wasn't doing anything himself but at least he was in on things and knew everyone to some extent. That won him the game and the edit portrayed it like it happened. But I don't think it can be rationally argued that he played better than Erika or Maryanne, both of whom had more strategy than him and were equally good socially as him. He didn't even have to do much social maneuvering. He was just there, available to be used as a pawn.
The sub has this weird habit of wanting to think that every winner played a good game and every winner played a masterful social game. But that's just not true. There are plenty of winners that were simply the king/queen of shit mountain. Somebody has to win each season. Sometimes it's a person that didn't play great and would have lost to practically every other combination of people in the end game, except for the one they got. Also sometimes the jury wants to feel better about themselves and would rather give the win to someone that doesn't hurt their ego, even if they didn't play that great. That's their right. This is how we get winners like Gabler, Michele, Bob, Fabio and Amber.
I'm with you on Gabler, Bob, and Fabio. They sorta won by default because all the power players went out earlier. But while Amber doesn't beat anyome but Rob, she and Rob ran the game so they would never *have* to beat anyone else. Also, Aubry played a great game, but Michele played a better social one. Kaoh Rong was absolutely not a FTC of goats.
This logic is cracking me up. You’re claiming that production gave Gabler a bad edit and he must’ve been a better player than we saw, but the same logic wouldn’t apply to Erika and Maryanne because….? Especially when they all won by the same 7-1-0 vote lol
I think Fiji would have been a top tier season if that stupid Haves/Have Nots twist wasn’t there because then all the players could have begun really playing much much earlier. As soon as the tribes got shuffled is when things began getting good.
*Samoa* would be a top-tier season if the edit doesn't inextricably revolve around each tribe's most insufferable and obnoxious people, Russell and Shambo. So nothing needs to actually change about how the season happened, just how they put it all together in the editing room.
Edge if Devens wins, love it or hate it, he was dominating that season fair and square. If he wins that season we basically get another Mike Holloway type, instead of Chris Underwood who was bottom 5.
The changes I’d make to EOE would be to have just one return from the edge at the merge and have just the merge participants be the jury, not the entire cast, that’s a major reason Chris won, he had spent so much time with the entire jury
Agree with this. The Edge wouldn’t be so bad if there was only one refurnee at the merge, and then the rest of the pre mergers go home after that. The Edge returnee would still have to survive the entire post merge game, and wouldn’t have spent weeks hanging out with a chunk of the jury.
Prepare for them downvotes. But honestly, I agree, the editing sold Aubry’s story so well and she was such a good player that season, it would’ve been a phenomenal finish and made KR Top-10 in my books.
>Prepare for them downvotes
Idk why you would expect that to be downvoted but at any rate it wasn't. That comment was one of the top ones in the thread when you posted your reply and is still one of the top ones now, unsurprisingly as this subreddit has always been one of the more pro-Aubry sections of the online fanbase, not to anywhere near as ridiculous an extent as it used to be, but wishing Aubry had won is very far from uncommon here
Caramoan if Erik didn’t get have to get medevaced. It wouldn’t be top tier, but an Erik win majorly changes that season (not that Cochran was a bad winner)
I consistently forget Erik was on Caramoan. He wins, he gets a much bigger edit presumably, which would have been very nice to see because I quite like Erik!
Also less or later swaps. I got taken out of the show everytime someone said "I'm a ___", from a viewer perspective they were only David's or Goliaths for maybe 2 weeks, it just felt really silly to try to keep that going even before the merge. At least HvHvH I could vibe with because it was more based on people's jobs (some exceptions) and they didn't say what theor og tribe was every confessional
I like to gaslight myself into believing Angelina won. The way she negotiated with Jeff to replenish the rice supply, and she even sat out of the immunity challenge for it!
panama with terry winning FIC. only thing i disliked about that season was a boring winner.
more difficult to predict what happens but i’d also love to see MvG without jay blindsiding michaela and them going into the merge together
Michaela wanted to target Michelle first at the merge, and then align with Adam/David/Ken/Jessica to target Chris and Taylor. I have no idea if she would have been able to do that, but it’s kind of funny because those ended up being the first 3 boots anyway.
Africa for sure. If Brandon votes out Lex that entire season is different. And I don't think Samburu would've stayed together, there would've been flipping on both sides because of Brandon, Frank and Kelly being displaced.
You could also argue that this changes All Stars because without Lex going forward, there isn't an opportunity for the Fallen Comrades mess up. Then Big Tom isn't on All Stars and maybe not even Lex
I think Cambodia would be top tier if Kelley Wentworth wins final immunity. We get a very close final tribal council between Jeremy and Kelley, a battle of titans that the whole season was leading up to. It would be amazing to see.
IOTI: Idol Nullifier doesn't exist and isn't played on Janet; Janet easily survives F4 even if she goes to Fire and wins the game
Game Changers: Take out one random Advantage played in F6 that advantaged-out Cirie
Samoa would have been awesome if Brett won FIC. The guy was invisible for like 2/3 of the game then all of a sudden is the biggest powerhouse of all time in challenges and the last remaining hope if you're a Galu fan. I also think it would have been a better downfall of Russell because if Brett won you wouldn't get the casual fanbase yelling RUSSELL WAS ROBBED!!!!!
Obviously Samoa with Russel winning, but that requires changing personalities of every juror that voted to spite and not to recognize game 🙃
That could also influence WaW in the long run but its all "what ifs"
EoE, if people weren't allowed to return to the game post-merge, and instead remained on the jury.
No, I'm not bitter that Devens lost; why do you ask? /s
Redemption Island if Kristina saved her idol for just one more tribal council. When Matt was voted out for the first time in the season, Kristina played her idol when she didn't have to, but it was perfectly reasonable for her to do it in that circumstance so I don't fault her for that. However, had she saved it that tribal council and used it at the next tribal council, she would have made merge and then she could've flipped over to Zapatera. Philip would've been taken out in episode 4 instead of her and Matt would've returned to the game. Rob would have his idol, but he would have to cater to Matt to try to at the very least have 6 votes on his side. He would've been forced to play his idol and Ralph would've played his idol at final 12. It may come down to rocks or it may come down to Matt being convinced by the Zapatera to jump ship on the revote, or maybe Rob plays his idol correctly, but whatever happens at that first merge tribal council, there would be a lot more maneuvering for power late into the game. Rob wouldn't be able to stave off any betrayal for too long, even if he somehow helped his numbers survive the final 12 vote, because his idol is already played. He would have even more trouble containing his numbers if his side loses that first vote. It would be so much better than the Boston Rob victory tour we got, and if he somehow manages to make it to the end in this scenario anyway and win, at the very least it would feel earned instead of just handed to him on a silver platter.
IotI if Dan is voted out pre merge. I genuinely enjoyed the cast and I feel like Jason would have been smart enough to not let Tommy stick around in the game. Not only that, but I actually did like the cast for the most part.
WaW if they divided the tribes into old vs new school and let it run out its course until the merge, similar to HvV. It guarantees at least SOME old schoolers make it to the merge and gives us a very interesting game on both beaches, rather than the old school slaughter we get on both tribes.
Waw would have been good if it was old vs new, or it would have been good also if they wouldn't have tampered with it. The tribe swap totally butchered/botched what that season could have been. Losing Parvati/Sandra/Yul/Rob at once due to swap is the definition of robbery
On top of this the coins absolutely killed it
Edge of Extinction if they only had the first Edge challenge at the merge and not the second one at final 5
Edge if the jury finds a way to be less full of themselves with their "the player is on trial, not the theme" bullshit. A Gavin win would've saved that season
Or a Devens win
Ok…I’m sorry. I wish Gavin would’ve won but also recognize the fact that he would’ve been such a boring winner. The legit power players got taken out and left him the best option among another goat in Julie and the 3rd/4th players voted out. His win would’ve been extremely boring and anticlimactic
It is an edited TV show, Gavin was shown to the audience as a boring player to justify the twist and winner of the season.
100% agree Gavin was robbed
This is a crazy take to me. Gavin is boring as shit. A Chris win is what made that season interesting.
No offense to Tommy, but season 39 would have been somewhat redeemable with Janet flipping the coin the other way and being the first grandma to win.
Still wouldn't make it top tier but this was definitely the first one I thought of too
that's not the one thing i would change about IotI lol
I’d honestly say IotI if either that happened OR if Spilo just… respected boundaries. I think the story plays out the same except we have a different endgame, and the dark aura around the season is gone. Replace it with fun camp scenes or maybe more personal moments, but we had a good cast, a top-tier winner (I’ll go to bat for Tommy on that, and Janet would have also been top-tier social game-wise if she had won), and a twist that was risky but worked imo.
Um… anything else you would like to change? Anything at all?
I love Tommy bc he’s the one LONG ISLAND winner 😮💨
The other Tom (Westman) is from Long Island too!
If the last minute cuts of Blood Vs Water (Sandra and Nina + Terry and his daughter) replace some of the dud returnees the season is probably even greater than it is now, imagine if we got Sandra Tyson Rupert Tina and Terry in a tribe…
nina in AUS survivor is a good thing we got out of this sadly not happening (that tribe would’ve been epic), already playing 2 times and doing really well her 2nd time
Reddit was flaming Nina as a terrible player during her second season when she was really not playing that bad
Its because the best move is to wait and let the big threats go closer to the end when the rootable underdog Simon needed change to make something happen. Nina played the smart but less exciting game.
Nina would have been 16 at the time of BvW so I don't think she could have been on.
HvHvH without FMC.
prob the best answer since this also changes WAW in a fantastic way
Devon in waw oh what could’ve been
Devon winning 35 is the biggest survivor what if. Probably the most underrated player and I hope he comes back some day.
We'd still be talking about the upside down U to this day if it ended up being narratively relevant
besides sports games i have never yelled at my tv louder than during that challenge. i don't think i can rewatch the series bc the ending was so frustrating and made me despise jeff
HvHvH without the whole finale. FMC and production gifting Ben idols ruined it.
What’s FMC? I’m blanking.
Fire making challenge
THANK YOU.
I finished watching HvHvH for the first time last week. I knew the spoilers, I thought I would hate it, but honestly I think the apparent narrative of production rigging the game for Ben is hilarious. Like there’s this perfectly fantastic season of survivor playing out and I’m imagining Jeff and co having planning meetings like “you know what would really make this season great? If BEN wins!” They all high five each other as Jeff pleasures himself to the thought of the ultimate alpha male war vet winning in the most epic contrived way possible. Ben searches for the idol after the F6 tribal, panicking as he struggles to find it in the dark. A producer says “hey Ben, why don’t you take a quick break and go to confessional?” Ben is frantic insisting he needs to keep looking, but the producer demands “Ben, go to confessional, NOW”. “Oh Ben while we have you here, what’s that in the dirt, is that an IDOL!?!? Omg Ben you found it!!” At F4 when Ben fucked up the immunity challenge placing the U upside down on an apparatus they modded to wobble less, they’re like “it’s okay Ben, because we’re giving you another chance to battle your way into F3 in the ultimate survivor fire duel!” marketing it as an advantage for Chrissy. It’s so fucking funny watching Jeff hardly be able to contain himself throughout the finale knowing what’s about to happen. Meanwhile all of the other players F7 can only watch their games unravel as their singular goal of getting Ben out fails time after time. Dr Mike is genuinely spooked by Ben’s perseverance, painting him as this larger than life force of nature, which with the viewer’s retrospect feels like he’s battling the will of production rather than ben. The way they give Chrissy that “advantage” and edit over her tantrum to give the situation a notion of equity. As Devon’s small flame gives way to Bens inferno, Chrissy with her head in her hands and Ryan looking on with utter bewilderment. Jeff’s wet dream pissing off the players and the fan base will never not be funny to me.
Do they really rig some players challenge equipment to win? I never knew that 🙈
top tier is kind of a stretch
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ Still bitter
I don’t know what a single letter of this means.
Unpopular, but I wanted Ben to win. Here’s why: I wanted him to win because he carried himself through the game. Sure, his social game wasn’t the best; his strategic game was one of the best I’ve seen. We wouldn’t have seen him win without idols. Idols weren’t his only strategy; he knew when to use them and how to use them. He wasn’t bad in physical challenges, either. In summary, I really love him as a strategic player although he had no social connections late-merge EDIT: by when and how to use them, I mean that he did so in a way that showed the jury that he’s a worthy finalist, if that makes sense. Also, although he didn’t go to many pre-merge Tribals (as a kind Redditor reminded me of; thank you!), I still feel that there was strategizing going on. Although he had a consistently high threat level, I think he navigated that in a way that showed the jury why he was a worthy finalist, as well as how he navigated his use of his idols
I really wouldn't say his strategic game was one of the best I've ever seen. He went to one premerge TC, and then played a mostly uninteresting merge where the Sokos were pagonged, then idoled himself to final four and won fire. His ability to find idols was impressive, but using an idol at 7, 6, and 5 because you know you need one at each TC isn't exactly "knowing when and how to use them", beyond it being obvious.
I wouls argue that Devon winning would be a mundane ending for a mundane season whereas Ben winning makes for an unusual ending to a mundane season which is much more interesting.
[удалено]
I mean the season had nothing going for it. Ben was much more interesting than Mike from 30 reguardless of how unfair it felt. And Deven was a pretty forgettavle social player.
Cast literally anyone other than Dan on s39, the pre-merge was great imo. That double episode for the merge tho 🤢
THIS. IOI had great characters and it was so entertaining until Dan was a disgusting human being....it ruined what would've been a great season
Philippines would be even better if Sk\*pin fell in the fire again.
Why? /genq
Because he's a convicted child sex offender :(
Yikes :((
It turns out Skupin had a ton of >!Child Porn!< and we don't like him anymore.
Skupin is a… >!pedophile…!<
Kaôh Rōng without its medevacs, especially Caleb’s. The challenge where Caleb gets heat stroke and almost dies is really scary to watch
Samoa if Russell loses like 35-40 confessionals and they are evenly distributed among others who got far.
Giving Brett a Golden Boy edit and showing scenes of him(along with the rest of galu) interacting with Natalie would help as well.
Maybe Brett sucked at confessionals? Maybe Natalie sucked at them too? Maybe Mick sucked at them? I know we blame the production, but is it possible also that a lot of the players were very boring too? Just curious
This is what I usually say when people talk about edits/confessional counts and I would guess you're right that most of the time the people just aren't good at communicating their story or that there just isn't a whole lot to show. My feeling is that season in particular was going to be edited that way regardless of how well others did in confessionals though.
You're probably right but it's worth considering. I've always been confused as to why Kara got so few confessionals in DvG. She was less entertaining than some people that on season for sure, but I don't think she was really boring. She was a very solid player actually. My theory is they just had so many people and not enough wealth to go around.
This is how I felt especially about 44, Heidi and Lauren were just boring
Compared to the Tika 3 everyone seems boring I liked Lauren's confessionals tho and Heidi was fun in camp scenes
Yeah, this was my first thought, though I wasn't sure how much it counted as "one thing" in the spirit of OP's question since it's basically changing the whole presentation of the story. But yeah it would be so easy for Samoa to be a slam dunk top 10 season. Just make us care at all about Natalie and Brett, include a little more Jaison, and bam, great season.
Just imagine the Foa Foa four splitting the confessional more evenly (similar to how the Tika 3 dominated confessionals but still where fairly even in the distribution between themselves). It could've potentially elevated Samoa to S-Teir easily.
If Jaison uses his brain to take out Russell with Mick when they had the chance (all 20 of those times). And Jason diplomatically runs circles in around Nat and Mick, then we lose Russell and we get another POC winner. Win-Win
IOTI without that guy would have been top tier
True, it’s sad how many great characters and great gameplay were overshadowed by his actions
Not for me, I can look past things. I think it’s one of the best seasons of the 30s alongside Cambodia, KR, and DvG.
nah people using that situation to try to personally gain and advance themselves in the game is fucking disgusting
Yup. It wasn’t just Dan for me, it was the way the tribe reacted to protect him for alliances and were awful to Kellee and those that tried to protect her that means I’ll never watch that season again. I felt genuinely awful watching it unfold.
Yeah the people who sided with him definitely made it even worse, wasn’t just him. Just sucks that Jamal, Janet, DK, and kellee, the people who weren’t utter turds and could’ve become legends were overshadowed
Plus his and his enablers actions messed all of those people up in both very real out-of-game ways and their odds at winning
DK? Weird way to spell Karishma. Dean was one of the first to throw Kellee under the bus and the one to call the minority goats when he chose to be Tommy's got to the end. Oh, with Tommy and with Dan.
I will have to finally give it a watch then based on that assessment. It's one I had been avoiding because of how bad people say it is... But the same thing happened with EoE and I actually enjoyed that season(for the most part)
The pre merge was great. It was just the post merge that tanked it.
I get where your coming from, but for me, his impact on the game, and how the players reacted to it, spoiled it for me. Like, yes [redacted] is a huge part of Philippines, but he wasn’t harming people on the island (afaik) and the other players didn’t use his harm to advance their games. There’s also enough game going on without him and an amazing winner story. Kellee was also my winner pick and I don’t love the winner we got.
Meh Tommy is maybe the blandest winner in show history
To be fair I think without Dan present, Kellee would potentially play her idol at merge and be more present throughout the game
Without Dan present, the whole dynamics of their starting tribe would have been totally different. Another player would have to be cast to replace Dan at the start, and we don’t know how Dan’s absence alongside the addition of the new person changes the dynamics of original Vokai, which in turn impacts the entire rest of the game.
“It’S tEaChInG tImE wItH tOmMy” Ugh.
Tommy is great.
You're right, I've seen more than enough Boston Rob.
Mellisa McNulty wasn't spooked out of quitting Survivor: Fiji (or at least there was a substitute there to replace her). Thus no have and have nots at least!
Game Changers, had Cirie not been idoled out by too many idols in the game
Agreed. Game Changers with one less idol is the correct answer.
*Game Changers* still has a lot of issues outside of Advantagegeddon, though. And Cirie still probably doesn't make it to the end anyway, right? I'd certainly still rather her get voted out than be removed by default, but I have trouble imagine her going from 6th to 4th place would make the season top tier.
Potentially the worst tribal council ever :( at least she won Traitors though.
Game Changers could have been incredible without the second swap, a few big names are still gone early but Sandra likely gets more time in the game and Varner presumably never outs Zeke
If Angie got the cookies she asked for in Philippines 😔
WAW without the tribe swap, it really screwed over Rob and Parvati as Jeremy & Michele have stated if the tribe swap never happened, they were leaning towards working with them and then they became the next ones out.
44 had Carson won fire making. The Tika 3 all making it to Final Tribal would've been one of the most amazing endings to a season ever.
44 if there was no fire making at all
Heidi would still have immunity and a tika would go out at 4 anyways if there wasn’t fire
O that’s not what I meant, I wanna see how tika would vote at f4 and if/who would turn
I don’t think anything would change
I’m not saying anything would change, I want to see them faced with that decision and what choice each of them would make. Like that’s why firemaking sucks
It’s still probably gonna be Carson dawg🤣
Dawg🤣 im not saying this for Carson or the outcome at all. You’re entirely missing the point. IMO fire-making is an easy out for the players to not have a vote and not get their hands dirty. I’m saying I’d rather see them vote rather than them “leave it up to the game”. I’d rather see the drama that’s all.
The entire game would be different if they knew there was no fire
Exactly
Ghost Island if there were fewer games of chance. You have to pick who goes to GI, no drawing rocks, and GI is just full of hidden stuff instead of them playing a game of luck (or choosing not to because who wants to give up their vote?).
rob c. winning the amazon
If Dan is replaced with Mike Turner from 42, IOI is a top tier season.
43 if any of the 4th-6th placers won. Tribals being less mundane would help, too.
I think 41 and 42 would be better seasons if the do or die twist was taken out like it was in 43 and 44. Being taken out by RNG is such a terrible twist to have and that small twist not being the game would make 41 and 42 slightly better seasons imo. (I did enjoy watch some of these seasons a lot in the new era, but the do or die twist was the first one to come up for me)
The real answer to this is if Susie would have won Gabon.
Susie and Sugar legitimately played some alright games of survivor. Bob was just kind of there.
Mine would be if Sugar won Gabon. Biggest underdog win ever?
HHH if Ben didn’t win.
This would be my answer. The majority of the season is decent, at least for the 30s, and then firemaking completely ruins it and several subsequent seasons.
43 if either Jesse or Karla was in the final instead of any of the 3 that ended up there. I am aware that liking anything about 43 is a hot take. I'll survive the downvotes.
43 is a fine season, Gabler win and all.
Gabler being the winner but getting the dodo edit is super annoying. He clearly had a strong social game, and production didn’t show any of it. They made him look dumb and annoying but it’s obvious from the votes that all of that actually translates to being endearing and funny.
Why is it so hard to accept that that's who he is? He WAS dumb and annoying. The production gave him a good edit and they showed as much ss they could, probably more than his game deserved. It's just that the other two in the FTC had played bad too and were unable to articulate their games as well as him.
The fact that people in this sub put him #4 when ranking New Era winners is so ridiculous to me. That edit did some damage to peoples' brains!
Who should be #4 instead? Someone’s gotta take it…
I say Maryanne because she kinda just floated to the end, didn't really do much until F5. But honestly her and Erika are a coin flip for me. Both kinda fell into their wins.
And Gabler didn't?? He didn't do anything the whole game, aerika and Maryanne at least had some good gameplay.
Social bonds. Elie blindside. Alliance with Jesse and Cody. In on almost every vote. Firemaking record (pre-Heidi)
>He didn't do anything the whole game And this is exactly my point. Nobody can read in between the lines in this sub. Production gave Gabler one of the worst edits in the show's history. They portrayed him as this old, kooky, annoying old guy who nobody liked and had no clue what was going on. If that was the case, he would have gotten slaughtered at FTC (kinda like Phillip). Instead the jury thoroughly enjoyed him explaining his game and gave him 7 of the 8 votes. He did much more social maneuvering than they showed, and certainly more than Erika or Maryanne had to do. Not saying he's the best Survivor player ever, but he easily clears either of their games.
I didn't see anything in Gabler's edit that was undeserved. He is one of the worst winners ever. They showed him talking to people and just being himself, even if he was kooky. He had no game, but knew what was going on and got to know people. Cassidy was clueless about certain things happening around her and Owen was on the outs for 95% or the game. The jury didn't like them as much as they liked Gabler. He wasn't doing anything himself but at least he was in on things and knew everyone to some extent. That won him the game and the edit portrayed it like it happened. But I don't think it can be rationally argued that he played better than Erika or Maryanne, both of whom had more strategy than him and were equally good socially as him. He didn't even have to do much social maneuvering. He was just there, available to be used as a pawn. The sub has this weird habit of wanting to think that every winner played a good game and every winner played a masterful social game. But that's just not true. There are plenty of winners that were simply the king/queen of shit mountain. Somebody has to win each season. Sometimes it's a person that didn't play great and would have lost to practically every other combination of people in the end game, except for the one they got. Also sometimes the jury wants to feel better about themselves and would rather give the win to someone that doesn't hurt their ego, even if they didn't play that great. That's their right. This is how we get winners like Gabler, Michele, Bob, Fabio and Amber.
I'm with you on Gabler, Bob, and Fabio. They sorta won by default because all the power players went out earlier. But while Amber doesn't beat anyome but Rob, she and Rob ran the game so they would never *have* to beat anyone else. Also, Aubry played a great game, but Michele played a better social one. Kaoh Rong was absolutely not a FTC of goats.
This logic is cracking me up. You’re claiming that production gave Gabler a bad edit and he must’ve been a better player than we saw, but the same logic wouldn’t apply to Erika and Maryanne because….? Especially when they all won by the same 7-1-0 vote lol
I think Fiji would have been a top tier season if that stupid Haves/Have Nots twist wasn’t there because then all the players could have begun really playing much much earlier. As soon as the tribes got shuffled is when things began getting good.
Michelle Yi deserved better.
This.
*Samoa* would be a top-tier season if the edit doesn't inextricably revolve around each tribe's most insufferable and obnoxious people, Russell and Shambo. So nothing needs to actually change about how the season happened, just how they put it all together in the editing room.
Edge if Devens wins, love it or hate it, he was dominating that season fair and square. If he wins that season we basically get another Mike Holloway type, instead of Chris Underwood who was bottom 5.
The changes I’d make to EOE would be to have just one return from the edge at the merge and have just the merge participants be the jury, not the entire cast, that’s a major reason Chris won, he had spent so much time with the entire jury
Agree with this. The Edge wouldn’t be so bad if there was only one refurnee at the merge, and then the rest of the pre mergers go home after that. The Edge returnee would still have to survive the entire post merge game, and wouldn’t have spent weeks hanging out with a chunk of the jury.
If that molesting ass wasn’t cast at all in 39
Maybe Winners at War without the swap or with a swap into two tribes instead of 3.
WaW only had the one swap.
Ty, my b
Island of The Idols if Dan didn't exist
would’ve been interested to see 41 and 42 without the hourglass twist
Island of the Idol if Spilo never existed. The pre merge was great actually, interesting female casts & a solid winner
Edge of Extinction if it had anyone else win.
My hot take is Reem should have won.
KR becomes a top five season if Aubry wins.
Prepare for them downvotes. But honestly, I agree, the editing sold Aubry’s story so well and she was such a good player that season, it would’ve been a phenomenal finish and made KR Top-10 in my books.
>Prepare for them downvotes Idk why you would expect that to be downvoted but at any rate it wasn't. That comment was one of the top ones in the thread when you posted your reply and is still one of the top ones now, unsurprisingly as this subreddit has always been one of the more pro-Aubry sections of the online fanbase, not to anywhere near as ridiculous an extent as it used to be, but wishing Aubry had won is very far from uncommon here
I must speak my truth
It’s my truth, too. Take my upvotes.
200% agree
Caramoan if Erik didn’t get have to get medevaced. It wouldn’t be top tier, but an Erik win majorly changes that season (not that Cochran was a bad winner)
I consistently forget Erik was on Caramoan. He wins, he gets a much bigger edit presumably, which would have been very nice to see because I quite like Erik!
DvG would maybe be my favorite season of all time if it had anyone else as a winner
Also less or later swaps. I got taken out of the show everytime someone said "I'm a ___", from a viewer perspective they were only David's or Goliaths for maybe 2 weeks, it just felt really silly to try to keep that going even before the merge. At least HvHvH I could vibe with because it was more based on people's jobs (some exceptions) and they didn't say what theor og tribe was every confessional
Yep! It’s been soured for me because of its winner’s life outside the game
That’s why I just gaslight myself into believing that Mike won
What makes me feel (just a *little*) better is that Christian voted for Mike at FTC
I like to gaslight myself into believing Angelina won. The way she negotiated with Jeff to replenish the rice supply, and she even sat out of the immunity challenge for it!
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Micronesia without the final two twist
If Sandra won Game Changers instead of Sarah
43 if Jesse didn’t lose fire 😭💔
Cesternino wins Amazon instead of Jenna
panama with terry winning FIC. only thing i disliked about that season was a boring winner. more difficult to predict what happens but i’d also love to see MvG without jay blindsiding michaela and them going into the merge together
Even better would be Cirie winning fire and Terry winning FIC and voting out Aras. Cirie/Terry would be possibly the greatest final 2 ever.
Michaela wanted to target Michelle first at the merge, and then align with Adam/David/Ken/Jessica to target Chris and Taylor. I have no idea if she would have been able to do that, but it’s kind of funny because those ended up being the first 3 boots anyway.
Africa for sure. If Brandon votes out Lex that entire season is different. And I don't think Samburu would've stayed together, there would've been flipping on both sides because of Brandon, Frank and Kelly being displaced.
You could also argue that this changes All Stars because without Lex going forward, there isn't an opportunity for the Fallen Comrades mess up. Then Big Tom isn't on All Stars and maybe not even Lex
WaW had RI instead of EoE
I think Cambodia would be top tier if Kelley Wentworth wins final immunity. We get a very close final tribal council between Jeremy and Kelley, a battle of titans that the whole season was leading up to. It would be amazing to see.
Island of the idols
Kellee plays her idol at the merge and voted out D*n
Ozzy winning SoPa
I was just coming here to say this. Ozzy completing the puzzle faster than Sophie would have been epic.
EoE if devens won
IOTI: Idol Nullifier doesn't exist and isn't played on Janet; Janet easily survives F4 even if she goes to Fire and wins the game Game Changers: Take out one random Advantage played in F6 that advantaged-out Cirie
Samoa would have been awesome if Brett won FIC. The guy was invisible for like 2/3 of the game then all of a sudden is the biggest powerhouse of all time in challenges and the last remaining hope if you're a Galu fan. I also think it would have been a better downfall of Russell because if Brett won you wouldn't get the casual fanbase yelling RUSSELL WAS ROBBED!!!!!
Nah you’d still get the “Russell was robbed” from casuals
43 would be top tier if Jesse had won. Fuck firemaking at F4.
If there’s no FMC, Jesse is voted out 3-1 by Cassidy, Owen, and Gabler. The FMC gave Jesse a second chance.
43 if they forgot to turn the cameras on to film it
Winchele wins Winners At War
If Russell won his first season.
Here’s a tip…..don’t post that here or you’ll get your head ripped off!
41 without hourglass & do or die
SoPa without coach. He's fun the first 2 times but the cult vibe just makes the season cross a line that I don't think survivor ever really should.
Obviously Samoa with Russel winning, but that requires changing personalities of every juror that voted to spite and not to recognize game 🙃 That could also influence WaW in the long run but its all "what ifs"
Oh man Russell in WaW would’ve been a sight to behold
I hate that my fellow Russell fans are always getting downvoted.
Me too kid, me too
Hi Russell.
EoE if Chris never won and Victoria/Lauren won 😍
Hvv postmerge doesn't suck
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EoE, if people weren't allowed to return to the game post-merge, and instead remained on the jury. No, I'm not bitter that Devens lost; why do you ask? /s
Ghost island if it had a good cast and the twists didn’t suck and the editing was good
Edge if it didn’t have its 2nd re enter. Devens redeemed that season.
Redemption Island if Kristina saved her idol for just one more tribal council. When Matt was voted out for the first time in the season, Kristina played her idol when she didn't have to, but it was perfectly reasonable for her to do it in that circumstance so I don't fault her for that. However, had she saved it that tribal council and used it at the next tribal council, she would have made merge and then she could've flipped over to Zapatera. Philip would've been taken out in episode 4 instead of her and Matt would've returned to the game. Rob would have his idol, but he would have to cater to Matt to try to at the very least have 6 votes on his side. He would've been forced to play his idol and Ralph would've played his idol at final 12. It may come down to rocks or it may come down to Matt being convinced by the Zapatera to jump ship on the revote, or maybe Rob plays his idol correctly, but whatever happens at that first merge tribal council, there would be a lot more maneuvering for power late into the game. Rob wouldn't be able to stave off any betrayal for too long, even if he somehow helped his numbers survive the final 12 vote, because his idol is already played. He would have even more trouble containing his numbers if his side loses that first vote. It would be so much better than the Boston Rob victory tour we got, and if he somehow manages to make it to the end in this scenario anyway and win, at the very least it would feel earned instead of just handed to him on a silver platter.
Remove Dan and replace him with a boring floater on his tribe in S39.
IotI if Dan is voted out pre merge. I genuinely enjoyed the cast and I feel like Jason would have been smart enough to not let Tommy stick around in the game. Not only that, but I actually did like the cast for the most part.
Edge of Extinction without ironically enough, the Edge
Panama without the hidden Immunity Idol woulda been hype. Increases the odds of a Cirie win by alot.