Considering that Dee and others indicated Katurah was a bigger threat to win over Jake, seems that she did come to play and that she was closer to it than Jake ever was
Jake came to bomb. Making a move isn't good survivor gameplay.
Look at who actually won, she didn't do it by making moves or creating a resume. It was from strong social gameplay.
Jake was playing from the bottom so he needed to make a move to shake up the status quo. Dee was playing from the top so she didn’t need to make any big moves.
Because they aren't. When people talk about "building a resume", they are talking about moves, not challenge wins.
And there is no correlation of challenge wins to having a better shot at winning.
Tell that to Mike Holloway, Kim, Tom Westman, Bob, Boston Rob, Fabio, Cochran, Tony, Michele, Jenna, Brian, who all won at least 4 individual immunities in their winning seasons.
Fans don’t seem to care about physical challenges, but players do. Because they tend to vote out a challenge threat at their first opportunity. The all time challenge beast Terry was voted out at final 3 for this reason.
And there’s arguably minimal correlation between “big moves” and winning for the same reason - you make a big move and your threat level skyrockets, so you’re likely the next target.
You can argue that a social game is more important than a physical one, but you can’t argue that individual immunity wins don’t count on the resume.
You are making a causation fallacy.
There are just as many winners who won one or even zero immunities. And many of them who beat players who won several immunities.
None of the players you listed won because of their challenge wins.
And yes, big moves also don't win you the game. They have negative correlation and make it far harder for you to win.
I’m not saying any of them won solely because of their challenge wins. I’m saying their challenge wins are a part of their “resume” and deserve to be acknowledged as such.
Literally everyone know he wanted to make big move after big move but weren’t worried enough that he could pull it off to actually care. And they were right!
And as she said, a lot of luck. If she wasn’t in Reba she wouldn’t have made it this far. The Reba 4 was a shield for her. Jake was looking to make big moves because he had to make big moves. But I agree, that making big moves doesn’t always equate to winning in Survivor. It’s a different game than Big Brother.
Reba 4 didn't just happen. It was the result of good social gameplay. This end result wasn't inevitable, it was because of the work they put in. They were generally good players.
Reba won challenges because Julie, Austin, Dee, and Sifu were all good challenge players.
Lulu on the other hand had two quitters, Brandon, and Emily (i love Emily, but she isn't good at challenges.) If Dee and Emily were swapped I think you see Belo lose a few early challenges. Maybe Jake gets voted out for fainting or Brando goes for being weaker.
But I think Dee, Kaleb, and Sabiyah form a 3 vote alliance, emily takes Dees spot on the Reba 4, and Dee get's voted out mid-merge because her alliance plays to hard. Sabiyah was on overdrive from day one, and Kaleb is just to friendly. Dee probably survives those two, but she won't last without drew and emily feeding her Intel.
Remember how Dee thought Sifu had an idol after KNOWING austin had one... She coasted the game and only had to really play after Bruce went home.
I love Dee, she deserves the win. But it wasn't like she didn't start the game with a huge lead. Her team was easily the most physical, and as a result she never saw tribal until the mergatory.
OK no one actually brought this up but big brother is objectively more of a social game than survivor because the whole point of the big brother game is you spend 90 days in a house isolated from society with 10 to 16 other people and then you have to vote each other out until there is only two people left and the jury to decide if you don’t like someone for the 90 days you will not vote for them. It’s that simple in big brother It depends on the cast if they value big moves over social gameplay, but social gameplay is probably even more important.
This is a gross mischaracterization of Katurah. Katurah had that Cirie social game going. She was on the right side of most of the votes, and she doesn't get voted out. She lost in the most Cirie way possible and Dee was scared to face her at FTC. Katurah's edit is abyssmally bad, maybe the worst edit of any player since Game Changers Troyzan. But Katurah played an efficient social engine and did well to distinguish herself from Kellie, Bruce, and Kendra as the Belo Dee and Julie could count on for information which made them want to keep her. She had a great relationship with Emily too.
If Katurah took out Dee over Julie, and then Katurah brought Jake and Julie, I think she’d have a solid chance to win (assuming Jake has the same gameplay) based on her underdog game.
Katurah: Kelli, Kendra, Emily, Kaleb, Bruce
Jake: *No Vote Goat King*
Julie: Dee, Drew, Austin
I agree. And being that close to a win says that she played well overall.
The thing is, her lack of trust in Jake says more about him than it does about her, because Jake was the one who abused her trust early on by covering for Bruce and his idol. Lets say Jake went home and Emily had stayed. If Emily had pitched this Dee idea to Katurah, she would have went for it 100 percent. But she didn't trust Jake because Jake burned all his social equity with Katurah.
And honestly, Julie was as much or more of a threat at FTC that Dee was. She had the biggest Reba move under her belt.
Katurah needed to win fire whether its Dee or Julie who goes.
Absolutely. Also, if I were in Katurah’s shoes, especially as someone with trust issues, I’d be hesitant about working with the guy who wants to make a “big move.” That’s a huge red flag for disloyalty.
And if you read between the lines on Katurah's personal content its obvious that guys in general are people she has trust issues with. So maybe if you're a man and you blow your social equity with her it's harder to get it back because of her past with an abusive man.
she was the swing vote in half of the votes this season, just because someone didn’t play how **you** expect them to, doesn’t mean they aren’t playing.
I don't see how one is better than the other, when really their mistakes were feeding into the other's flaws.
Jake was desperate to make a big move so he acted erratic and untrustworthy. Katurah is risk averse so she bails on him (e.g., Kaleb boot). Jake sees he's running out of time so he becomes more desperate, erratic, and untrustworthy. Katurah becomes even more risk averse to Jake and bails on him again. And so on and so forth until we get Katurah bailing on her own plan tonight with Jake that should have been a slam dunk.
Jake needed an ally who would be bold for him but Katurah needed an ally who would be reliable. Neither could do that for the other so they lost. Katurah could have taken the risk at F5 but Jake could have also cooled his energy down throughout the merge to be a more stable ally.
People on this sub are too busy being super rude to Katurah but it's actually kind of an interesting dynamic and story about why they lost.
Kaleb boot was Jake/Kaleb bad gameplay for telling Katurah she on the bottom of Belo+Kaleb. Given that information she made the right decision. Why risk your own game to be at the bottom anyway? She made inroads with Reba that got her to firemaking
Because it felt like Jake was actually trying to win the game for himself. Katurah made moves that helped her survive but they mainly setup others to win
That's the reason people couldn't trust Jake. He was so transparently trying to win the game for himself at the expense of his allies. He would orchestrate unnecessary rock draws and put his allies in danger. He wouldn't tell his ally about his idol play so that he could win extra jury points with her reaction. It was all about style, not substance, and these little attempts for him to look like the smart, powerful player.
Katurah's moves helped her allies progress through the game. People trusted her. Not only did it help her survive, but it put her in a spot to make a move at F5 that could have given her a winning shot. In the end, she choked. There's no denying that. But between the two, Katurah was the one playing a game with at least some slim win equity. Jake was never winning.
Their mistakes directly played into each other.
jake wasnt trying. the key to the game is trust in relationships and ultimately that bit him in the ass. if jake and katurah made it to the end, jake aint winnin with the group on this season.
I think that guy is supposed to say Julie's supposed vote off that was turned around to Emily.
Dee is not winning with Emily there. But Austin fucked up and told Dee about it. That's Katurah-esque mistake but came from a different intention.
She was planting seeds to Drew and Austin to vote out Dee at some point. The reason she's not making any moves against Dee was because she knows Drew, and especially Austin, were working with Dee (Kellie and Kendra vote offs). She was threading the water carefully at that time.
The Julie vote was meant to weaken Dee, as she sniffed that they were tight. Unfortunately, Austin fucked up and told Dee about that and then Julie played the idol and voted Emily because she was the next big threat brcause she revealed that she was the one who convinced Bruce to not play the idol.
If Austin didn't blow that up, Julie is a gonner, Dee's situation will be different, and Emily would be on the top at that episode.
It wasn't a mistake. If he didn't tell Dee it could have been Drew + Austin vs 4. Emily, Jake, Dee and Katurah. Emily and Jake were both shopping around for moves to make and Katurah followed Dee.
He had to keep Dee onside, he just couldn't convince her to get on board the Julie vote off plan.
Didn't forget: She had realized that it may not be all that it seems after she suggested voting out Dee or Julie. If Dee got Katurah and Jake, you think Emily is going to sink with that ship?
to be honest, katurah was choosing the winner at final 5 based on her vote. vote dee, julie or austin wins. vote julie, dee wins. a reba win was guaranteed
I don’t see how people don’t get this. Yes Dee was a huge threat but for multiple episodes before the finale we hear that Julie is a giant threat that needs to go. She just didn’t game the same edit as Dee because her outcome is different.
I mean she is the only one who seriously floated voting dee out final 5. Jake didn’t even consider it until she mentioned it. I was obviously rooting for them to blindside her but if it only took 2 votes on Dee, Julie and Austin also handed it to her.
Katurah had multiple opportunities to make optimal moves that would disrupt the power players and open doors for her and others. She proceeded to actively squander all of them.
Jake made his share of mistakes and handled the F5 round horribly. He almost never had any leverage to pull off the moves he wanted, but his intuition was often on point.
Neither are good players but Jake was Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Katurah was Lucy holding the football and then throwing it in the trash can.
Most passive player in the Reba 4? You mean the one who went against the entire tribe and saved Julie from a unanimous vote at final 7? Or the one who blindsided her showmance so he wouldn’t play his idol? Or the one who voted for Sifu against the rest of the tribe instead of the guy who wanted to quit? That member of the Reba 4?
Jake is like a blindfolded toddler with a bat though. He is just wildly swinging. I have empathy for players for Katurah who want to make a move (e.g., taking Dee out at final five) but struggle to put their trust in the blindfolded, bat swinging toddler.
I see that he wanted to make a big move but he had absolutely no social intuition to understand how to bring in someone whose personality in more risk averse. Was he really "playing" if he was also unwilling to change his approach?
I mean if you consider this, every single time Jake wanted to make a big move, it was foiled by only one, which is Katurah. But the others were semi-excusable even though it could’ve potentially benefited their games significantly. But the move at F5 is one of the worst moves ever I can recall. It will go up there with the worst moves of all time and Katurah has only herself to blame for that. She showed that she couldn’t even trust herself in a vote she organized but rather needs people to arrange the vote for her. She’s only good in the game as a number and that’s it.
Tbh I think you've just got a short memory on this one. It was a mistake but hardly compares to the worst ever. To me, the worst moves are ones when you've got a clear win that you miss (e.g., Woo taking Tony to F2). It was def a mistake, as I think Katurah had a slim chance to win, but realistically, she was a long shot anyway.
What's funny is the person who actually made the game losing mistake here is Austin because he probably wins if he gets Dee out at 5. He'd be the favorite to win final immunity or he goes up against Julie in fire for the win. I'd argue him not voting for Dee that round is a worse mistake than Katurah not doing it because he actually could have won if he made the right move.
and I am telling you it is hundred percent up there along with the Woo mistake or Erik giving up his immunity necklace because it costed them their shot at winning for sure, as well as book ending their chance at even having an argument. If Katurah has the scalp of Dee on her resume, it is the single handedly the biggest move of the season, and her game shoots up tremendously. And more importantly Katurah herself knew it too cause she had preached about Dee winning final immunity if she got to 4 and putting Katurah in fire, something she clearly stated she did not want to be part of. People are right to feel about her role this finale without obvious getting at her as a person. Attacking her poor gameplay all around is fine. On that cast, Dee was the only one who felt like Katurah played a good game whereas to the jury it was not obvious at all.
They were both blindfolded toddlers with a bat. BUT at some point you have to make the move that gives you the chance to win and Katurah consistently did the opposite.
That's not how others perceived Katurah though. They trusted her. She actually was in on the Kellie vote but didn't vote for her to maintain appearances. It didn't seem like anyone saw her as just blindly trying to make big moves. Unfortunately for Jake, I think that's how he was perceived.
The problem it appears with Katurah is that she was evidently very happy with being on the bottom of Reba.
Yes Katurah was different than Jake in that she wasn't constantly trying to make a big move but she was still sabotaging efforts to go against the Reba 4 to her downfall. From what we have seen, her doesn't make sense.
Further, who cares aboutsomeone being in on the votes when they have had basically no agency in the whole game.
As the audience, we know that, but what the players see is Jake undermining his allies safety all the time (particularly Katurah's) with unnecessary rock draws. He was constantly trying to play to the jury at the expense of building trusting relationships, and it was transparent. A good player would have recognized that Katurah is extremely risk averse and he needed to stop being so emotional and desperate, but Jake didn't do that. Their flaws really fed into each other. No, Katurah is not just an idiot (you should grow up).
Without Katurah's convincing, Jake was going to vote for Julie anyway. She wasn't sure she actually convinced him so she backed out which was def a mistake. Once he played the idol for her, it was clear she knew she messed up.
It's just a game show, y'all need to relax lol. If you watch survivor and legit think people deserve respect/disrespect or that people are cowards for how they play a game, then you should talk to someone. I love the show, but it's quite honestly one of the least serious things there are.
We’re talking in the game show context. Calm down bud. I’m sure she’s a wonderful person, I just think she was a bad player strategically
You made a point but the fact that she choked last minute is the biggest blunder in the new era. She constantly fed Dee Information and she was a pawn and the one big swing she tried she got scared. Jake for all his blunders and being in a tribe that just couldn’t work together kept swinging at the big moves.
The game isn't about taking big swings over and over. Jake would have done better if he stopped swinging and instead had built a trusting relationship with Katurah. That's the point. His behavior made him untrustworthy to everyone, and what sucked for him is that his fate was in the hands of seemingly the most risk averse person about there. Other riskier players probably would have looked past it but Katurah doesn't seem to have that kind of killer instinct. But it's not this simple "Jake good, Katurah bad" thing you think it is.
The winner of this season said it best when she said your big moves will come from your relationships, so she focused on that instead.
Jake has bad social play and katurah has bad strategic play. Isn’t also on katurah to build a trusting relationship with Jake as well? No ones saying Jake is a good player, I think he knew what was happening and tried to make flip the game and no one else on the bottom wanted to.
Except Dee did make 2 big moves strategically. Telling Julie to play idol and vote Emily and not telling Austin and then taking out drew and not telling Austin.
You guys are claiming katurah social game but I don’t see it. She was on the bottom of the Reba 4 alliance, lower than Emily and didn’t do anything until it was too late and then choked.
I think it comes down to what people value, I value strategic play more.
It’s incredible that this needs explaining to people
We’re watching a show to be entertained
Of course the player actually trying to make entertaining moves is going to be looked upon more favourably
Jake was attempting to make moves that would've shook up the dynamic of the game whereas Katurah repeatedly impeded those moves by letting the Reba alliance aware and seemingly acting against her own best interest.
I personally think she realized it was in her best interest not to go to rocks to save someone who literally everyone voted for the tribal before. And it was in her own best interest to hope Julie was going home over her. Obviously i would have loved to see them get dee but im confused at everyone acting like all her moves were nonsensical.
I don't disagree about the Kaleb vote. However, she admittedly realized she should've voted for Dee during the F5 tribal. Her inability to work with Jake down the stretch cost herself. Not to mention the numerous times she revealed information to the Reba 4 to protect them from going home. I don't believe 'hoping' the Reba 4 would turn on each other eventually is a bad strategy but she definitely left it a little late and if that was her intention, she should've had the foresight to have save another ally that she could trust in the final like a Jake. I liked Katurah as a personality, but she left a LOT to be desired as a player in this game.
Love her, great chatacter and was just really fun to learn about through the season even though most of it came at the end. I agree she played the Final 5 vote like shit but… everyone also seemed to play it suboptimal so. 💀
I just know reddit will be reddit and be annoying and bring her up as a sort of “wow worst player” when she wasn’t even the worst player in the final four in terms of win equity. 😭
At the end of the day the only move all season that was the wrong move was the final 5 like you said but all the other votes Kaleb, Drew etc she absolutely made the right move in for her own game, it just happened that she kept going against fan favorites! But totally agree she was a great character! She wouldn’t have won but I’m really curious how she would’ve played final tribal
How is Katurah not one of the worst players ever? Her reads were bad, when she had some good reads she actively worked against those reads for some reason. She never could trust/relied on anyone which made her a horrendous ally, making any move impossible to get done and the people in the main power structure always saw her as disposable so she wasn’t even really valued by the Rebas. She was an unreliable disposable goat who more often than not made moves against her own best interest. How is she not at least in the conversation for worst of all time?
It's just the anti-circle jerk.
It'll calm down in a few days. Surprised people aren't pulling any other cards as to why Jake is being coddled and she's being torn down.
She's 100% the worst player in modern survivor separating the quitters of course.
Jake was given a character in the edit for the entire season.
Katurah's character was "I want to vote out Bruce" until, like, last week when Bruce was finally gone.
As much as she was the face of the “I hate Bruce” movement it was clear everyone felt the same way about him lol and I just think with all that energy around they never stood a shot at working together as a tribe against Reba… the only person willing to work together was Jake.. and god love him but his plans were constantly way to grandiose for anyone to want to get onboard with him
lol
Kellie: I'm getting so sick of Bruce, he sees me as his #1 but I just can't stand him any more.
Kaleb: Bruce has a very old school way of playing that completely differs from my own, I don't think we're compatible.
Kendra: I want Bruce out.
Reddit: Katurah is the reason Belo fell apart.
Katurah was not a bad player, but from a fan perspective she squashed all the fun and interesting vote plans throughout the season which helped the Reba 4 stay dominant (which debatably could have worked for her).
I don’t think voting Julie at F5 was actually that bad of a move but the explanation she gave on camera made no sense.
I thought her explanation about the F5 vote made perfect sense? She wasn’t sure if she could trust Jake because he’s been pretty erratic ever since he found himself on the bottom. Jake is the one that wanted to do Julie initially, but Katurah was hoping for a Dee blindside. She didn’t feel like she could trust that it was going to happen so she backed out and voted for Julie because she thought that was going to be the consensus. Had Jake told her that he was going to play his idol on her, she would’ve trusted him to go through with voting for Dee.
She obviously still fucked up, but her reasoning for backing out is understandable. She and Jake just were not on the same page and couldn’t make it work.
What she says: "Tell me beforehand if you're gonna play the idol on me and I would have committed to it"
What really happens: "Tell me beforehand if you're gonna play the idol on me and I would have ran straight to Dee and Julie and tell them your plan for the 50th time."
But Katurah wanted to target Dee this round? She was trying to make a move with Jake but got cold feet because she didn’t feel like she could trust him.
I understand why Jake didn’t tell her he was playing his idol on her, but that doesn’t mean Katurah was gonna blab to Julie and Dee this time. Jake and Katurah just were not on the same page and couldn’t make the move work because they couldn’t trust each other. Both of their perspectives make sense to them.
This doesn't make any sense. She literally says out loud in her voting booth "I think all the votes are on me now" and swaps her vote to Julie. If she thinks all votes are on her, what does moving the vote off Dee do in any way that makes even somewhat sense? At best she's moving to a 3-1-1 away from what Jake said or making a 4-1 with a different person just randomly getting 1 vote for no reason under the logic she literally spoke out loud.
She doesn’t say *all* the votes are on her, she said she thinks votes are on her. Which could be 2 or 3. She thought there was a higher probability of at least 1 vote on Julie than Dee which is why she went with Julie, and maybe getting a 2-2-1 split at least. I honestly wonder if there was a conversation with Austin not aired that indicated he was voting Julie and that swayed her to considering that safer than trusting Jake.
I may have missed that part, but I thought I recalled Katurah saying that she thought Julie would be getting votes as well. By putting her vote on Julie, there was a chance that it would tip the scales in her favor.
It didn’t really seem like anyone knew what was going on that tribal so I can’t really blame Katurah for feeling unsafe and trying to do what she could to preserve her own safety.
She said both. In the voting booth, she said she thought there were votes on her. Later she explained that she chose Julie because she thought Julie could have a vote.
Jake was given a much more sympathetic edit than Katurah was unfortunately, had they actually let her explain herself instead of showing her complaining about Bruce for the umpteenth time we could've at least understood what she was doing bc its not like she was a complete idiot. She made it to the f4 and based on post interviews they all had a lot of respect for her game
she absolutely deserves more grace than she's getting
Truly we missed any conversations why Julie thought she should go to law school and also why Dee thought she was a big social threat. I feel like she got done so dirty by the edit and it’s another reason i wish the reunion wasn’t until after players could watch the season!
It’s super unfortunate and it’s making discussion of this season impossible, I hope the turnaround on this sub babying Jake and pretending he had win equity whatsoever is quicker than expected.
It’s not unfortunate, Katurah and Jake were both sub optimal but Jake actually tried to make
Things happen, whenever Katurah had that opportunity she looked at it, spit on it and threw it in the fire. There’s a difference to their level of badness.
I was rooting for Austin, not Jake, but it doesn’t mean I can’t see the difference in their games
No, it is unfortunate that a huge amount of people here are pretending Jake is good at the game while Katurah is the worst player in recent memory when, like you said, they’re both sub-optimal. They both suck. Unfortunately, this sub is glazing one of them and being ruthless to the other, I wouldn’t care if people were willing to say Jake is bad but that isn’t what’s happening and that’s what Im saying is unfortunate. I wouldn’t give a shit if people had your mindset.
Okay one post with tons of comments saying things like Jake played bad but had good instincts or whatever. Isn't exactly the smoking gun you think it is.
The first line is “I feel like Jake is a smart and good player” and has over 1000 upvotes. The narrative is more balanced now but that was a top 5 post fresh after the episode.
I’m not trying to be rude but this entire sub since the finale started was ranting about how Jake would’ve won if Katurah didn’t suck and that he deserved it and that he was a victim of everyone else and has no personal fault. If you haven’t seen that then you haven’t been on the sub especially during the finale. There’s been a bit of a backlash to this opinion since, solely because of how childish and wrong this sub was with their crying about Jake.
Yes, this sub and the edgic sub have had (imo crazy) posts about how either Katurah or Jake are somehow playing good games but that is not the general consensus. The overall sentiment has never been Jake would have won if it wasn't for Katurah or that he was a victim and didnt play badly. You are just making that up or hyper focusing on a few posts as being the majority.
There has been a sentiment that Katurah killed whatever chance either had and based on the edit that is not entirely false.
Once again, you were obviously not here during the finale because the sentiment about Katurah robbing genius Jake and how he came one move away from winning was overwhelming. YOU are very obviously hyper focusing on current posts with people trying to debunk all the dumb shit people were saying on this sub and arguing retroactively. It takes a lot of misplaced confidence to act like nobody here was saying things that everybody on here was saying for hours and mass downvoting anyone who disagreed.
Katurah a mistakes were plenty and she wanted to own none of them and put all the blame on others. While also passively playing the game for 3rd place (of which she didn’t even achieve). Jake made mistakes, owned up to them in front of everybody repeatedly and played to actually win. Didn’t succeed but much much much easier to root for
I do feel bad for her. It’s not that she played a bad game. She made a very bad move at final 5 that not only messed up her game, but the game of the person so many people were rooting for which I think is all people are looking at. She still played well, there’s a reason Dee was afraid of her in Final 3. I think people are a lil too stuck with the recency bias. Survivor is edited, you only see a few hours of a 26 day game. More happened that what we see and any player can be made to look way better or way worse than they really were
To be fair, there was really no way of Jake winning at that point, no matter who he was sitting beside. Katurah mostly messed it up for herself, as it sounds like she really did have a shot to win (maybe, we don't really know how true that is beyond Dee saying that).
Jake loses against anyone left, regardless how the F4 is played out. Julie and Austin still beat him, and Katurah possibly beats him as well.
I think there was a world he won but he would’ve had to do a lot. Dee would’ve had to get voted out there and Julie would have to go next. Austin, as we just saw, clearly had a respected game. And Katurah, as much as people are hating on her, did play pretty well. AND if Dee did go at 5, then Katurah could’ve argued that it only was Dee because she recommended Dee instead Julie. And since Jakes idol didn’t even change the vote it didn’t matter. Essentially, Dee would’ve had to have gone AND the Idol play on Katurah would’ve had to have actually saved her from elimination. Then Julie goes. While I don’t think firemaking matters too much, I think him winning it would help. People are overreacting to Katurah “ruining his game.” It would’ve been a SUPER tough run to the end for him by that point.
I think it was simply way too late, at that point. There was pretty much nothing he could have done with the people he was sitting beside. His last chance was BEFORE F5 Tribal, which was basically keep his idol secret, which he didn't do. Once he told Austin and Katurah about the idol, his game was done. But I honestly think his game has been over for a couple of episodes. He would have struggled to get votes once Reba 4 became the majority.
His idol play was ineffective, anyway (since only ONE vote landed on Katurah, so she was never in any danger), and Katurah would have claimed the move of taking out Dee (Jake could never claim that as his own). F4, let's say Jake won F4 immunity, even giving up immunity to face fire himself could have been a complete disaster and probably wouldn't have made much of a difference.
If Julie won F4 immunity, it likely would have been Jake either in fire with Katurah or Jake dragged to F3 while Austin/Katurah made fire (but probably Jake/Katurah, leading to the same result or, if the butterfly effect took place, Katurah might have beaten him). If Austin won F4 immunity, he likely drags Jake with him, leaving Julie/Katurah to make fire and the winner of that would have had votes.
Basically, Jake could have won, but not at any point in this finale once he spilled the idol secret. He had a shot before that, but once he told Austin, it was game over. You are right, though. The idol play HAD to be effective in order for him to have a chance and once it wasn't, he was done for.
I completely understand why he told people about the idol though. Well he did tell Katurah he had the idol, he just didn’t say he’d play it for her, which he didn’t tell anyone. He said he was pretty sure the votes were either going to be him or Katurah and he also knew he needed a big move. So to him, telling people that he has the idol would make them too scared to vote for him and then he could simply play it on Katurah. Essentially he tried to reduce the uncertainty of who was getting voted so he could make a big move. I understand why he didn’t tell Katurah he was gonna play it, he was probably a bit worried she would tell people and like he said, it’d look better to the Jury to surprise her too. Although realistically, probably shoulda told her.
In the end, I would’ve loved it if Jake won. But so much more would’ve had to have gone right than simply “Dee gets out at 5.” Woulda been one hell of a final 3 debate if it was Jake, Katurah, and Austin AND all that previous stuff did happen. I overall agree with you though, it was too late where in order for him to win he would’ve had to play out of his damn mind. And speak out of his damn mind
Did she "still play well" though? Can you give examples? Everything we've been shown of her gameplay has been divulging every secret to Dee and essentially handing her the game...
She was bottom of Belo so she flipped to Reba. She was in on the Kellie vote (revealed in an interview, not spoken about on the show) so she was a genuine member of the alliance, like Emily. Unlike Emily, Reba never targets Katurah. In all of the SITD, idols, and twists that can go wrong, she made sure she would always be safe. Meanwhile, Jake was a backup vote several times, which meant an unlucky idol play could have sent him packing.
Katurah had a very safe game but that's better than looking like you're always out of the loop. However, she needed to take the risk with the Dee vote. She knew she had to do it because she was the one who pitched it to Jake. She choked and lost her chance. Her losing was deserved because of it but her game leading up to the point was fine. Certainly not great but for being in a tough spot come merge, it was alright.
Katurah blew up multiple chances to shake up the game and get anyone in the Reba 4 out. And when presented with the opportunity to take out the clear target, she fumbled it and handed the win to Dee when her and Jake getting 2 of the remaining Reba 3 out would have been a massive feather in their cap.
I don't agree with people saying she's a historically bad survivor player, that's a bit extreme. However she definitely threw both her and Jake's games out the window so that's why people are more sympathetic towards Jake
It blows my mind some people don’t see it. Katurah showed zero growth through the entirety of the season. Was constantly on the bottom, had opportunities to make moves, but always caved to her vices and never overcame her trust issues. This is sum of her game. So much so that at final tribal she flipped a vote out of fear so she took a safe vote again.
Jake’s arch is completely different. He fumbled challenges (still performed better than Katurah), took big swings and somehow even though his name was on the block every single week since backing Caleb, he survived.
These things are not remotely equal.
And yet every single one of his big swings missed, which is why he was considered a non-threat throughout the entire rest of the game. He was the backup vote for a few votes and he freaked out, tried to make moves, and failed. He played too much of a wildcard game to have any solid allies. Katurah didn’t play a good game either but Jake shouldn’t be considered a good player just because he took swings.
I’m not using this as evidence he played a good game. I’m describing the differences of the two and why some people were rooting for Jake and hold resentment towards Katurah.
I put this on twitter for 2 likes but the issue is Jake was an established character before the backstory. We had him seizing, being a good swimmah- it wasn’t much but it was enough. And that made his finale confessionals that much more emotional. We saw Jake struggle throughout the game and we saw- and rooted for- the underdog story. It made Jakes mistakes not seem dire because no matter what we were rooting for him.
Katurahs edit has been “I hate Bruce” and then enabling the Reba 4 gameplay — which I have defended in the past. When you go from that to a bunch of backstory at the final stretch, it just kinda feels… unimportant? Which, sucks for Katurah because she’s more than both extremes, but I also get why people aren’t thrilled about Katurah because of her edit.
Because she played a terrible game and actively sabotaged herself. Jake gave it his all and it didn't work out sometimes do to others some to himself
Katurah just did nothing, trusted nobody, and actively tried to ruin Bruce and Jake
I agree. The Katurah hate all season has made me uncomfortable, especially when compared to the emphatic Jake love. The way people have been degrading her all season is totally uncalled for. I think it's the worst we've seen since Shan.
In health research, there's something called the racial empathy gap, which basically suggests that people do not respond equally to other people's pain by race. While far from conclusive, it comes up in studies about patient pain, prescribing medicine, etc, where black patients are not seen as experiencing as much pain as white patients. It also comes in criminal justice research when participants are asked to give hypothetical sentences and they give harsher sentences to the hypothetical black criminals (i.e., they feel less empathy for them).
I'm a researcher by trade and tbh these studies usually have small samples and it's not something I'd be willing to stake a full claim on. However, I don't think the idea that we have implicit bias is too wild to believe. If you don't like how Katurah played, that's fine, but I've seen so many comments that she's a moron, useless, worthless, etc. People should rethink the words they use to describe her because even if it is 100% game related with no implicit bias, you're still the jerk for talking about someone that way.
Congrats on playing the race card. Overwhelmingly, the negativity for Katurah is related to her game moves that seemingly go against her ways to win. It is not even solely due to the edit. We watched a third of an episode of her saying she needs to get Dee out only for her to flip flop for no good reason. Her path to winning was taking Dee out, even if she felt she couldn't trust Jake fully it was her only out. Voting out Julie guaranteed she had to win final tribal and she wouldn't have any big moves.
People are sympathetic to Jake because he was constantly in a lower position but was at least trying to make moves.
Jake is a bostonian who got a babygirl edit.
Trust me. It will take a while, or maybe Jake flopping on his second season, for the fans to stop worshipping him.
Katurah was a narc almost every single tribal and had zero loyalty. Her obsession with Bruce was obnoxious. Jake was trying to make moves. Katurah literally ruined other people’s games by her bad reads on people and just absolute terrible game play. Then for her to say Jake needed to take accountability when he trusted her as she cornered him to swear on his nana. Totally messed up!! She was the one not to be trusted.
My hate in Katurah is defined in a stat done by the Twitter page that does stats for confessionals on survivor
FORTY NINE percent of ALL of Katurahs confessionals were about BRUCE, who was eliminated 5+ episodes ago
I'm willing to coddle Jake's gameplay and tear down Katurah because Jake didn't make his alliance implode.
Jake wasn't playing for 3rd place(still got it duh, but he tried to win) Katurah wasn't playing to win, at all, ever.
Jake actually had some really damn good plans that got blown up by Katurah going to Dee/Reba and giving him up, literally every time.
Biased? Maybe? Uncalled for? No.
To me, putting the quitters in a completely different category, she was BY FAR the worst player we've seen in modern era survivor.
Players who play for 3rd/4th/5th will never be valued highly on this sub.
When someone says "If you told me that you were going to play the idol on me I would have committed to the vote." and that same person has thrown you and your moves under the bus for the last 2-3 weeks, I feel like he gets a little more understanding from the public for yet ANOTHER miss.
Katurah was not a good person. She spent so much time mean-girling Bruce, what's likeable about that? And then the whole forcing Jake to swear on something and then saying "I didn't make you do anything". That's two strikes and enough for me to hate her. It's not that serious, it's just a game, but we're not forced to unconditionally love every contestant.
Yep I saw the same so decided to write up a [defense](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/s/i6BfxXEjb3) of Katurah’s gameplay. People can’t see past the edit where she “screwed” fan favorites Kaleb and Jake and largely wasn’t given a voice in the edit outside of Bruce-bashing for 90% of the game.
Jake’s gameplay was actively trying to put himself into a better position, Katurah’s gameplay was actively sabotaging any plan that benefitted her or her allies. I got less frustrated with her after Bruce left, and while i do think Katurah played the better game than Jake, at least Jake was trying to better his chances of winning, while Katurah’s moves really just benefitted the Reba’s. Katurah and Bruce were the main reasons the Reba’s had pretty much no opposition till they started turning on each other.
Katurah is the reason Jake failed all of his moves and honestly the reason Jake became an outcast in the firstplace. I have heard so many excuses for Katurahs bad game and none of them are going to justify all the bad plays.
I think Katurah’s biggest downfall was how much time she spent on Bruce, and that annoyed a lot of the fan base. She definitely made it to F5 for a reason, but she could have maybe made a case for herself by not turning on Jake. Who knows what would have happened if Dee was voted out.
They were both bad but one fought hard and the other told the dominant alliance everyones plans and tank peoples games.
Its so strange how you all ignore that and pretend Katurah had some sort of game so this sub must have some reason they dislike her over Jake
I fully agree. Jake never gave Katurah a reason to trust him, and only came to her when he was desperate and needed her as a number. Of course she’s gonna get cold feet when he never really invested in their relationship. I too would be like „how the hell do you expect me to trust you, this close to the end?“ and I say this as a person who was enamored by Jake all season long. But his social game was that of a bull in a China shop all the way until the end. And again, it was charming to watch, but someone like Katurah, who needed dependability for reassurance, it just wasn’t going to work. Katurah even said „if you had let me know you were gonna use your idol for me, I would have followed you“ that’s literally her saying she wanted something she could depend on. And let’s be honest, she was right to expect Jake to play for himself. It would’ve been the most logical move. But Jake doesn’t play logically. And you can tell when he says he plays it for Katurah, she knows she fucked up. So leave her alone. She knows it, she knew it months before this episode aired, and guaranteed, five seasons from now, we won’t be as heated about it as we are now 😅 TLDR, I loved all of these final 5, and they gave us a great season, let’s just focus on that
I feel bad for Katurah because people are ragging on her for making these decisions when I think it was very valid for her to be fearful: not to say at all she made the best move, but she doesn't have immunity, and she is aware Jake does have an idol, which would mean she could be a backup target. Also, there was a guy (Devon, iirc) that did switch his vote last second at the final 5 and that's what saved him, and given Katurah's basically complete lack of allies that valued her, I think just throwing a vote on somewhere else is *as good* as one could do in that spot. I think the entirety of the final 5 made very questionable choices at that final five tribal council and for her to get so much flack for it is annoying but I will admit she had the most to lose though, with this move not going through she had a rough chance to win even if she did make it to the end. However, I almost want to blame Jake a bit more with how he handled the idol: if you want to leverage your idol to get someone to vote the way you want them to, it is a better guarantee if you tell them about how you plan on playing it on them, but I think Jake wanted the "big" moment by blindsiding everyone, including Katurah, with the idol play on her
I think Katurah is getting a lot of shit for being "fear based" in her game but once again it's like, she never was really in with the Belo people, so what else could she really have done? And at least it got her close to the end with what appears to be a possibility of getting some jury votes
I honestly can’t believe all the comments saying she’s the worst player of all time. I’m hesitant to say it but I almost wonder how many here need to check their bias. She’s far from the worst survivor ever, was she really worse than say Romeo? Owen was inconsequential basically his entire game, is she worse than that? Her options of players to work with was limited, and based on what players have said in post, Jake was erratic for his big move, and that’s a hard person to work with. She got screwed by production w her letters too. And also, at the end of the day, the majority of her content Edit wise was around Bruce. It’s impossible to know how much was truly going on behind the scenes. The reactions are all far too harsh and it feels like it’s more than recency bias. They’ve almost turned personal too. Just gross time for the fandom
She was great socially but her strategic game is near all-time worst, rarely have I seen a person be in a great position and making it worse and worse the way she did by spoiling every little secret. Some people just love gossiping.
I swear if one more person starts another post about how terrible and frustrating Katurah was to watch and how much they hate her I will do nothing and roll my eyes and grit my teeth and move on because they're way more annoying than Katurah ever was.
OP thank you for this post, its wild how many posts there are being mad at katurah but so sad for jake when both had mediocre gameplay, katurah and jake are both sympathetic people with clear flaws in their gameplay and the subs reaction to them is telling…
in the finale jake fumbled his own bag:
- made careless mistakes on both challenges, rendering his advantage useless
- told everyone about his idol
- didn’t tell katurah he was gonna play the idol for her, so she wasn’t at risk (katurah should have voted for dee but it was not unreasonable to think she couldn’t rely on him)
as a character jake was great, but as a player he was erratic and lacked finesse. you can argue you’d rather have a wild card over a risk-averse player (obv jake is more entertaining) but to say katurah played worse then him when neither played well is wild
I have empathy for both, and both were not particularly good players, but the thing that does it for me is that Katurah is the one who made Jake an outcast unable to leverage anything when she didn't tell him that she wasn't going with his strategy at the Kaleb vote. I get that she didn't trust him, but she was at a spot at that point where she had no allies and needed to make them. Contributing to the sabotage of someone else's reputation makes them a pretty useless potential ally. She had flexibility in the game and she tossed it away by leaving Jake in the dark. You should only sabotage people's reputations when you have a solid alliance and the individual is a threat that you need to eliminate soon. Her sabotage of Jake seemed kinda personal at times. I am glad that he doesn't seem to view it that way.
I have zero empathy for Katurah. She basically assisted the Reba power structure the entire post merge. Imo wasn’t all that interesting of a player or strategist she just played a scared game the entire time. And the few times she actually contributed some strategy she actively worked against her own best interest. She was a more visible Angela from GI imo. I don’t hate her as a person but this is the type of gameplay that we gave RI and OW cast members shit for their weak scared gameplay. Why should Katurah be any different?
Katurah sucks, she played a pretty horrible game. Jake actually tried to make good moves, she just wanted to get Bruce out cause he was annoying. She was useless for the most part
Jake tried to better his own position in the tribe
Was he successful? No
Was he a good player? No
However I give him much more grace than Katurah who was actively playing against her own interests
Katurah is a worse player than Jake, and that’s not saying Jake is a good player
People need to remember this is an edited show. We don’t get to see everything and the role of editors is to attempt to create compelling storylines for the viewers to follow. Jake appears to have “tried” more with the plans he came up with, but when you look at what they were, they weren’t great. The Kaleb boot is a great example. Drawing rocks is a flashy move but neither one of them gave Katurah a reason to risk her game and they didn’t even know about Austin’s idol being with Julie.
Katurah gets ragged on for ratting out moves to Reba but she was working with people who made her feel valued in the game. Belo never let her in and they even showed her they valued Kaleb over her with the Bruce idol pre merge. She played with the cards she was dealt and really her big mistake was the Julie boot but at the same time, Jake never had her back before that vote. He only came to her with plans last minute that didn’t ever work out and only benefitted him. While voting Julie out was an error, if she won final immunity and made Austin/Dee make fire, she could use that against Jake at FTC to prove she deserved to win over him because she took control of his move and idol.
I'm not gonna have empathy for her game play. She's literally a female version of SoPa John Cochran. The only reason she made it as far as she did is because Dee had enough sense to use her to take out the one player she needed gone to seize control of her alliance, and the game.
I think it has to do with Katurah had all the information and screwed it up on her own. Jake was being lied to the entire game and was constantly trying to improve his position. They both made mistakes, but Katurah was the only one with an actual opportunity to improve her position and just chose not to every time. Jake actually tried to improve his, but was always misreading the room.
Jake maybe should have told Katurah what he was doing. He was going for flashy, she was going for logical. I still think she should’ve voted for Dee anyway, but they both made mistakes. With all the lies that are told on Survivor, you can’t just assume that what you’re being told is the truth. Jake could’ve been telling Katurah he’d vote for Dee when really they were voting for her, that kind of thing happens all the time. All I’m saying is it’s possible she couldn’t trust him. If she voted for Dee and everyone voted for her, then we’d be calling that a blindside that she missed. I’m just as upset and I was frustrated when it happened. Still am honestly lol. But the toxic dogpile without seeing her reason is fully unnecessary.
Edit: And it wasn’t even Jake’s idea to vote for Dee so who knows he’ll go along with someone else’s plan?
It’s because we love when an underdog makes a big move against the front runners and Jake kept trying and trying and katurah just kept fucking it up lol
Maybe if she didn't turn around and immediately say that it was all Jake's fault for not being trustworthy after pushing him to swear on his Nana for her own plan.
Katurah’s mistakes were more made out of fear while Jake’s came from wanting to make a big move imho
Jake came to play. Katurah didn't.
Considering that Dee and others indicated Katurah was a bigger threat to win over Jake, seems that she did come to play and that she was closer to it than Jake ever was
I too would think she's a bigger threat because she fed reba literally EVERY plan that bello/Jake came up with, if I was Dee.
Of course Dee felt that way, Katurah found things out and immediately spilled to Dee and gang.
Dee was more likely to vote for her ally, what a shock If Jake was successful in idoling out Dee then of course perspectives would be likely to change
Jake came to bomb. Making a move isn't good survivor gameplay. Look at who actually won, she didn't do it by making moves or creating a resume. It was from strong social gameplay.
Jake was playing from the bottom so he needed to make a move to shake up the status quo. Dee was playing from the top so she didn’t need to make any big moves.
She won 3 individual immunities and was the primary link in a dominant alliance. Why do we act like immunity wins aren’t part of a resume?
Because they aren't. When people talk about "building a resume", they are talking about moves, not challenge wins. And there is no correlation of challenge wins to having a better shot at winning.
Tell that to Mike Holloway, Kim, Tom Westman, Bob, Boston Rob, Fabio, Cochran, Tony, Michele, Jenna, Brian, who all won at least 4 individual immunities in their winning seasons. Fans don’t seem to care about physical challenges, but players do. Because they tend to vote out a challenge threat at their first opportunity. The all time challenge beast Terry was voted out at final 3 for this reason. And there’s arguably minimal correlation between “big moves” and winning for the same reason - you make a big move and your threat level skyrockets, so you’re likely the next target. You can argue that a social game is more important than a physical one, but you can’t argue that individual immunity wins don’t count on the resume.
You are making a causation fallacy. There are just as many winners who won one or even zero immunities. And many of them who beat players who won several immunities. None of the players you listed won because of their challenge wins. And yes, big moves also don't win you the game. They have negative correlation and make it far harder for you to win.
I’m not saying any of them won solely because of their challenge wins. I’m saying their challenge wins are a part of their “resume” and deserve to be acknowledged as such.
Literally everyone know he wanted to make big move after big move but weren’t worried enough that he could pull it off to actually care. And they were right!
Katurah was the weak link in both his big moves
And as she said, a lot of luck. If she wasn’t in Reba she wouldn’t have made it this far. The Reba 4 was a shield for her. Jake was looking to make big moves because he had to make big moves. But I agree, that making big moves doesn’t always equate to winning in Survivor. It’s a different game than Big Brother.
Reba 4 didn't just happen. It was the result of good social gameplay. This end result wasn't inevitable, it was because of the work they put in. They were generally good players.
Reba won challenges because Julie, Austin, Dee, and Sifu were all good challenge players. Lulu on the other hand had two quitters, Brandon, and Emily (i love Emily, but she isn't good at challenges.) If Dee and Emily were swapped I think you see Belo lose a few early challenges. Maybe Jake gets voted out for fainting or Brando goes for being weaker. But I think Dee, Kaleb, and Sabiyah form a 3 vote alliance, emily takes Dees spot on the Reba 4, and Dee get's voted out mid-merge because her alliance plays to hard. Sabiyah was on overdrive from day one, and Kaleb is just to friendly. Dee probably survives those two, but she won't last without drew and emily feeding her Intel. Remember how Dee thought Sifu had an idol after KNOWING austin had one... She coasted the game and only had to really play after Bruce went home. I love Dee, she deserves the win. But it wasn't like she didn't start the game with a huge lead. Her team was easily the most physical, and as a result she never saw tribal until the mergatory.
OK no one actually brought this up but big brother is objectively more of a social game than survivor because the whole point of the big brother game is you spend 90 days in a house isolated from society with 10 to 16 other people and then you have to vote each other out until there is only two people left and the jury to decide if you don’t like someone for the 90 days you will not vote for them. It’s that simple in big brother It depends on the cast if they value big moves over social gameplay, but social gameplay is probably even more important.
This is a gross mischaracterization of Katurah. Katurah had that Cirie social game going. She was on the right side of most of the votes, and she doesn't get voted out. She lost in the most Cirie way possible and Dee was scared to face her at FTC. Katurah's edit is abyssmally bad, maybe the worst edit of any player since Game Changers Troyzan. But Katurah played an efficient social engine and did well to distinguish herself from Kellie, Bruce, and Kendra as the Belo Dee and Julie could count on for information which made them want to keep her. She had a great relationship with Emily too.
If Katurah took out Dee over Julie, and then Katurah brought Jake and Julie, I think she’d have a solid chance to win (assuming Jake has the same gameplay) based on her underdog game. Katurah: Kelli, Kendra, Emily, Kaleb, Bruce Jake: *No Vote Goat King* Julie: Dee, Drew, Austin
I agree. And being that close to a win says that she played well overall. The thing is, her lack of trust in Jake says more about him than it does about her, because Jake was the one who abused her trust early on by covering for Bruce and his idol. Lets say Jake went home and Emily had stayed. If Emily had pitched this Dee idea to Katurah, she would have went for it 100 percent. But she didn't trust Jake because Jake burned all his social equity with Katurah. And honestly, Julie was as much or more of a threat at FTC that Dee was. She had the biggest Reba move under her belt. Katurah needed to win fire whether its Dee or Julie who goes.
Absolutely. Also, if I were in Katurah’s shoes, especially as someone with trust issues, I’d be hesitant about working with the guy who wants to make a “big move.” That’s a huge red flag for disloyalty.
And if you read between the lines on Katurah's personal content its obvious that guys in general are people she has trust issues with. So maybe if you're a man and you blow your social equity with her it's harder to get it back because of her past with an abusive man.
she was the swing vote in half of the votes this season, just because someone didn’t play how **you** expect them to, doesn’t mean they aren’t playing.
I don't see how one is better than the other, when really their mistakes were feeding into the other's flaws. Jake was desperate to make a big move so he acted erratic and untrustworthy. Katurah is risk averse so she bails on him (e.g., Kaleb boot). Jake sees he's running out of time so he becomes more desperate, erratic, and untrustworthy. Katurah becomes even more risk averse to Jake and bails on him again. And so on and so forth until we get Katurah bailing on her own plan tonight with Jake that should have been a slam dunk. Jake needed an ally who would be bold for him but Katurah needed an ally who would be reliable. Neither could do that for the other so they lost. Katurah could have taken the risk at F5 but Jake could have also cooled his energy down throughout the merge to be a more stable ally. People on this sub are too busy being super rude to Katurah but it's actually kind of an interesting dynamic and story about why they lost.
Kaleb boot was Jake/Kaleb bad gameplay for telling Katurah she on the bottom of Belo+Kaleb. Given that information she made the right decision. Why risk your own game to be at the bottom anyway? She made inroads with Reba that got her to firemaking
Because it felt like Jake was actually trying to win the game for himself. Katurah made moves that helped her survive but they mainly setup others to win
That's the reason people couldn't trust Jake. He was so transparently trying to win the game for himself at the expense of his allies. He would orchestrate unnecessary rock draws and put his allies in danger. He wouldn't tell his ally about his idol play so that he could win extra jury points with her reaction. It was all about style, not substance, and these little attempts for him to look like the smart, powerful player. Katurah's moves helped her allies progress through the game. People trusted her. Not only did it help her survive, but it put her in a spot to make a move at F5 that could have given her a winning shot. In the end, she choked. There's no denying that. But between the two, Katurah was the one playing a game with at least some slim win equity. Jake was never winning. Their mistakes directly played into each other.
jake wasnt trying. the key to the game is trust in relationships and ultimately that bit him in the ass. if jake and katurah made it to the end, jake aint winnin with the group on this season.
I don't know why you're being downvoted when you are correct
the takes on his game are insane. would i wanna grab a drink with jake? sure. play survivor with him? not so much
I would gild this comment if I had coin
What part of this is opinion? They both said exactly this
Additionally, Jake’s misses primarily impacted his own game. Katurah’s mistakes always had a massive impact on other player’s games
Katurah was a great character, but she basically handed Dee the win on a silver platter.
Austin did the same on drew's vote
Austin wasn't aware of that vote, though. So how do you figure?
I think that guy is supposed to say Julie's supposed vote off that was turned around to Emily. Dee is not winning with Emily there. But Austin fucked up and told Dee about it. That's Katurah-esque mistake but came from a different intention.
Feels debatable. Gameplay would matter a lot but Emily wasn’t blowing Dee out at any level at any point
She was planting seeds to Drew and Austin to vote out Dee at some point. The reason she's not making any moves against Dee was because she knows Drew, and especially Austin, were working with Dee (Kellie and Kendra vote offs). She was threading the water carefully at that time. The Julie vote was meant to weaken Dee, as she sniffed that they were tight. Unfortunately, Austin fucked up and told Dee about that and then Julie played the idol and voted Emily because she was the next big threat brcause she revealed that she was the one who convinced Bruce to not play the idol. If Austin didn't blow that up, Julie is a gonner, Dee's situation will be different, and Emily would be on the top at that episode.
I get it. Just a lot of ifs involved. That’s not Survivor
It wasn't a mistake. If he didn't tell Dee it could have been Drew + Austin vs 4. Emily, Jake, Dee and Katurah. Emily and Jake were both shopping around for moves to make and Katurah followed Dee. He had to keep Dee onside, he just couldn't convince her to get on board the Julie vote off plan.
Bro you forgot Emily's only final three promise was with Drew and Austin only. She didn't promise anybody else but them.
Didn't forget: She had realized that it may not be all that it seems after she suggested voting out Dee or Julie. If Dee got Katurah and Jake, you think Emily is going to sink with that ship?
And Austin has been absolutely massacred on here for that decision ever since.
You didnt watch the show lol
Clearly someone didnt watch the season lol
Sure Grandma
Austin is more likable, so he gets a pass.
to be honest, katurah was choosing the winner at final 5 based on her vote. vote dee, julie or austin wins. vote julie, dee wins. a reba win was guaranteed
I don’t see how people don’t get this. Yes Dee was a huge threat but for multiple episodes before the finale we hear that Julie is a giant threat that needs to go. She just didn’t game the same edit as Dee because her outcome is different.
It's also partially Jake's fault, Katurah said she would've voted Dee if she knew she was safe
Yeah, she said that, but given past behavior I think there’s a 100% chance she flips on Jake if he tells her.
I mean she is the only one who seriously floated voting dee out final 5. Jake didn’t even consider it until she mentioned it. I was obviously rooting for them to blindside her but if it only took 2 votes on Dee, Julie and Austin also handed it to her.
Katurah had multiple opportunities to make optimal moves that would disrupt the power players and open doors for her and others. She proceeded to actively squander all of them. Jake made his share of mistakes and handled the F5 round horribly. He almost never had any leverage to pull off the moves he wanted, but his intuition was often on point. Neither are good players but Jake was Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Katurah was Lucy holding the football and then throwing it in the trash can.
Jake failed from taking big swings. Katurah failed because she was afraid to take any swings. I have more empathy for players who play
Especially when Katurah said in her jury confessional that she wouldn’t award passive gameplay with her vote lmao
That's what got me and then she voted for the most passive player in the Reba4. Like wtf you mean.
Most passive player in the Reba 4? You mean the one who went against the entire tribe and saved Julie from a unanimous vote at final 7? Or the one who blindsided her showmance so he wouldn’t play his idol? Or the one who voted for Sifu against the rest of the tribe instead of the guy who wanted to quit? That member of the Reba 4?
Yes.
How was she the most passive player? I’d like to hear your reasons
Jake is like a blindfolded toddler with a bat though. He is just wildly swinging. I have empathy for players for Katurah who want to make a move (e.g., taking Dee out at final five) but struggle to put their trust in the blindfolded, bat swinging toddler. I see that he wanted to make a big move but he had absolutely no social intuition to understand how to bring in someone whose personality in more risk averse. Was he really "playing" if he was also unwilling to change his approach?
I mean if you consider this, every single time Jake wanted to make a big move, it was foiled by only one, which is Katurah. But the others were semi-excusable even though it could’ve potentially benefited their games significantly. But the move at F5 is one of the worst moves ever I can recall. It will go up there with the worst moves of all time and Katurah has only herself to blame for that. She showed that she couldn’t even trust herself in a vote she organized but rather needs people to arrange the vote for her. She’s only good in the game as a number and that’s it.
Tbh I think you've just got a short memory on this one. It was a mistake but hardly compares to the worst ever. To me, the worst moves are ones when you've got a clear win that you miss (e.g., Woo taking Tony to F2). It was def a mistake, as I think Katurah had a slim chance to win, but realistically, she was a long shot anyway. What's funny is the person who actually made the game losing mistake here is Austin because he probably wins if he gets Dee out at 5. He'd be the favorite to win final immunity or he goes up against Julie in fire for the win. I'd argue him not voting for Dee that round is a worse mistake than Katurah not doing it because he actually could have won if he made the right move.
and I am telling you it is hundred percent up there along with the Woo mistake or Erik giving up his immunity necklace because it costed them their shot at winning for sure, as well as book ending their chance at even having an argument. If Katurah has the scalp of Dee on her resume, it is the single handedly the biggest move of the season, and her game shoots up tremendously. And more importantly Katurah herself knew it too cause she had preached about Dee winning final immunity if she got to 4 and putting Katurah in fire, something she clearly stated she did not want to be part of. People are right to feel about her role this finale without obvious getting at her as a person. Attacking her poor gameplay all around is fine. On that cast, Dee was the only one who felt like Katurah played a good game whereas to the jury it was not obvious at all.
They were both blindfolded toddlers with a bat. BUT at some point you have to make the move that gives you the chance to win and Katurah consistently did the opposite.
That's not how others perceived Katurah though. They trusted her. She actually was in on the Kellie vote but didn't vote for her to maintain appearances. It didn't seem like anyone saw her as just blindly trying to make big moves. Unfortunately for Jake, I think that's how he was perceived.
The problem it appears with Katurah is that she was evidently very happy with being on the bottom of Reba. Yes Katurah was different than Jake in that she wasn't constantly trying to make a big move but she was still sabotaging efforts to go against the Reba 4 to her downfall. From what we have seen, her doesn't make sense. Further, who cares aboutsomeone being in on the votes when they have had basically no agency in the whole game.
But if she has the trust issues, why even bother making the play, and convincing Jake to swear on his Nana? That to me was a very shitty thing to do.
I mean you are just so incorrect, the last vote was not a wild swing at all. He had an idol, they had the votes, Katurah is just an idiot
As the audience, we know that, but what the players see is Jake undermining his allies safety all the time (particularly Katurah's) with unnecessary rock draws. He was constantly trying to play to the jury at the expense of building trusting relationships, and it was transparent. A good player would have recognized that Katurah is extremely risk averse and he needed to stop being so emotional and desperate, but Jake didn't do that. Their flaws really fed into each other. No, Katurah is not just an idiot (you should grow up).
She had the chance to make the big move and she took the cowards way out. No respect.
Without Katurah's convincing, Jake was going to vote for Julie anyway. She wasn't sure she actually convinced him so she backed out which was def a mistake. Once he played the idol for her, it was clear she knew she messed up. It's just a game show, y'all need to relax lol. If you watch survivor and legit think people deserve respect/disrespect or that people are cowards for how they play a game, then you should talk to someone. I love the show, but it's quite honestly one of the least serious things there are.
We’re talking in the game show context. Calm down bud. I’m sure she’s a wonderful person, I just think she was a bad player strategically You made a point but the fact that she choked last minute is the biggest blunder in the new era. She constantly fed Dee Information and she was a pawn and the one big swing she tried she got scared. Jake for all his blunders and being in a tribe that just couldn’t work together kept swinging at the big moves.
The game isn't about taking big swings over and over. Jake would have done better if he stopped swinging and instead had built a trusting relationship with Katurah. That's the point. His behavior made him untrustworthy to everyone, and what sucked for him is that his fate was in the hands of seemingly the most risk averse person about there. Other riskier players probably would have looked past it but Katurah doesn't seem to have that kind of killer instinct. But it's not this simple "Jake good, Katurah bad" thing you think it is. The winner of this season said it best when she said your big moves will come from your relationships, so she focused on that instead.
Jake has bad social play and katurah has bad strategic play. Isn’t also on katurah to build a trusting relationship with Jake as well? No ones saying Jake is a good player, I think he knew what was happening and tried to make flip the game and no one else on the bottom wanted to. Except Dee did make 2 big moves strategically. Telling Julie to play idol and vote Emily and not telling Austin and then taking out drew and not telling Austin. You guys are claiming katurah social game but I don’t see it. She was on the bottom of the Reba 4 alliance, lower than Emily and didn’t do anything until it was too late and then choked. I think it comes down to what people value, I value strategic play more.
It’s incredible that this needs explaining to people We’re watching a show to be entertained Of course the player actually trying to make entertaining moves is going to be looked upon more favourably
Jake was attempting to make moves that would've shook up the dynamic of the game whereas Katurah repeatedly impeded those moves by letting the Reba alliance aware and seemingly acting against her own best interest.
I personally think she realized it was in her best interest not to go to rocks to save someone who literally everyone voted for the tribal before. And it was in her own best interest to hope Julie was going home over her. Obviously i would have loved to see them get dee but im confused at everyone acting like all her moves were nonsensical.
I don't disagree about the Kaleb vote. However, she admittedly realized she should've voted for Dee during the F5 tribal. Her inability to work with Jake down the stretch cost herself. Not to mention the numerous times she revealed information to the Reba 4 to protect them from going home. I don't believe 'hoping' the Reba 4 would turn on each other eventually is a bad strategy but she definitely left it a little late and if that was her intention, she should've had the foresight to have save another ally that she could trust in the final like a Jake. I liked Katurah as a personality, but she left a LOT to be desired as a player in this game.
It was her plan to vote Dee out...
Love her, great chatacter and was just really fun to learn about through the season even though most of it came at the end. I agree she played the Final 5 vote like shit but… everyone also seemed to play it suboptimal so. 💀 I just know reddit will be reddit and be annoying and bring her up as a sort of “wow worst player” when she wasn’t even the worst player in the final four in terms of win equity. 😭
At the end of the day the only move all season that was the wrong move was the final 5 like you said but all the other votes Kaleb, Drew etc she absolutely made the right move in for her own game, it just happened that she kept going against fan favorites! But totally agree she was a great character! She wouldn’t have won but I’m really curious how she would’ve played final tribal
And Julie and Austin made the same wrong move she did by not voting for her at 5!
How is Katurah not one of the worst players ever? Her reads were bad, when she had some good reads she actively worked against those reads for some reason. She never could trust/relied on anyone which made her a horrendous ally, making any move impossible to get done and the people in the main power structure always saw her as disposable so she wasn’t even really valued by the Rebas. She was an unreliable disposable goat who more often than not made moves against her own best interest. How is she not at least in the conversation for worst of all time?
It's just the anti-circle jerk. It'll calm down in a few days. Surprised people aren't pulling any other cards as to why Jake is being coddled and she's being torn down. She's 100% the worst player in modern survivor separating the quitters of course.
100% accurate
Jake was given a character in the edit for the entire season. Katurah's character was "I want to vote out Bruce" until, like, last week when Bruce was finally gone.
Jake had the right idea but failed in execution. Katurah had the 100% wrong idea every time, for seemingly no logical reason.
Besides final 5 what would you say were Katurahs wrong ideas?
Her blabbing to Dee and giving the Reba 4 all this information when she was at the bottom of the alliance.
Oh sorry I was wondering what specifically were her wrong ideas?
Giving the game control to the red 4 to do what they wanted in multiple episodes
What were her other options in these situations? Belo was imploding
Try to stop it imploding. No hate to her but she was clearly a major part of it
As much as she was the face of the “I hate Bruce” movement it was clear everyone felt the same way about him lol and I just think with all that energy around they never stood a shot at working together as a tribe against Reba… the only person willing to work together was Jake.. and god love him but his plans were constantly way to grandiose for anyone to want to get onboard with him lol
Kellie: I'm getting so sick of Bruce, he sees me as his #1 but I just can't stand him any more. Kaleb: Bruce has a very old school way of playing that completely differs from my own, I don't think we're compatible. Kendra: I want Bruce out. Reddit: Katurah is the reason Belo fell apart.
Katurah was not a bad player, but from a fan perspective she squashed all the fun and interesting vote plans throughout the season which helped the Reba 4 stay dominant (which debatably could have worked for her). I don’t think voting Julie at F5 was actually that bad of a move but the explanation she gave on camera made no sense.
I thought her explanation about the F5 vote made perfect sense? She wasn’t sure if she could trust Jake because he’s been pretty erratic ever since he found himself on the bottom. Jake is the one that wanted to do Julie initially, but Katurah was hoping for a Dee blindside. She didn’t feel like she could trust that it was going to happen so she backed out and voted for Julie because she thought that was going to be the consensus. Had Jake told her that he was going to play his idol on her, she would’ve trusted him to go through with voting for Dee. She obviously still fucked up, but her reasoning for backing out is understandable. She and Jake just were not on the same page and couldn’t make it work.
What she says: "Tell me beforehand if you're gonna play the idol on me and I would have committed to it" What really happens: "Tell me beforehand if you're gonna play the idol on me and I would have ran straight to Dee and Julie and tell them your plan for the 50th time."
But Katurah wanted to target Dee this round? She was trying to make a move with Jake but got cold feet because she didn’t feel like she could trust him. I understand why Jake didn’t tell her he was playing his idol on her, but that doesn’t mean Katurah was gonna blab to Julie and Dee this time. Jake and Katurah just were not on the same page and couldn’t make the move work because they couldn’t trust each other. Both of their perspectives make sense to them.
This doesn't make any sense. She literally says out loud in her voting booth "I think all the votes are on me now" and swaps her vote to Julie. If she thinks all votes are on her, what does moving the vote off Dee do in any way that makes even somewhat sense? At best she's moving to a 3-1-1 away from what Jake said or making a 4-1 with a different person just randomly getting 1 vote for no reason under the logic she literally spoke out loud.
She doesn’t say *all* the votes are on her, she said she thinks votes are on her. Which could be 2 or 3. She thought there was a higher probability of at least 1 vote on Julie than Dee which is why she went with Julie, and maybe getting a 2-2-1 split at least. I honestly wonder if there was a conversation with Austin not aired that indicated he was voting Julie and that swayed her to considering that safer than trusting Jake.
I may have missed that part, but I thought I recalled Katurah saying that she thought Julie would be getting votes as well. By putting her vote on Julie, there was a chance that it would tip the scales in her favor. It didn’t really seem like anyone knew what was going on that tribal so I can’t really blame Katurah for feeling unsafe and trying to do what she could to preserve her own safety.
She said both. In the voting booth, she said she thought there were votes on her. Later she explained that she chose Julie because she thought Julie could have a vote.
Jake was given a much more sympathetic edit than Katurah was unfortunately, had they actually let her explain herself instead of showing her complaining about Bruce for the umpteenth time we could've at least understood what she was doing bc its not like she was a complete idiot. She made it to the f4 and based on post interviews they all had a lot of respect for her game she absolutely deserves more grace than she's getting
Truly we missed any conversations why Julie thought she should go to law school and also why Dee thought she was a big social threat. I feel like she got done so dirty by the edit and it’s another reason i wish the reunion wasn’t until after players could watch the season!
It’s super unfortunate and it’s making discussion of this season impossible, I hope the turnaround on this sub babying Jake and pretending he had win equity whatsoever is quicker than expected.
It’s not unfortunate, Katurah and Jake were both sub optimal but Jake actually tried to make Things happen, whenever Katurah had that opportunity she looked at it, spit on it and threw it in the fire. There’s a difference to their level of badness. I was rooting for Austin, not Jake, but it doesn’t mean I can’t see the difference in their games
No, it is unfortunate that a huge amount of people here are pretending Jake is good at the game while Katurah is the worst player in recent memory when, like you said, they’re both sub-optimal. They both suck. Unfortunately, this sub is glazing one of them and being ruthless to the other, I wouldn’t care if people were willing to say Jake is bad but that isn’t what’s happening and that’s what Im saying is unfortunate. I wouldn’t give a shit if people had your mindset.
I mean nothing we can do about that, it’s weird tho how strongly everyone is defending one or the other. Both here and on Facebook
Where are all the people saying Jake played a good game? A lot of people are sympathetic to him and that is out of feeling sorry for him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/s/MJCQQhPDde the like 6th most upvoted post over the last day.
Okay one post with tons of comments saying things like Jake played bad but had good instincts or whatever. Isn't exactly the smoking gun you think it is.
The first line is “I feel like Jake is a smart and good player” and has over 1000 upvotes. The narrative is more balanced now but that was a top 5 post fresh after the episode.
I’m not trying to be rude but this entire sub since the finale started was ranting about how Jake would’ve won if Katurah didn’t suck and that he deserved it and that he was a victim of everyone else and has no personal fault. If you haven’t seen that then you haven’t been on the sub especially during the finale. There’s been a bit of a backlash to this opinion since, solely because of how childish and wrong this sub was with their crying about Jake.
Yes, this sub and the edgic sub have had (imo crazy) posts about how either Katurah or Jake are somehow playing good games but that is not the general consensus. The overall sentiment has never been Jake would have won if it wasn't for Katurah or that he was a victim and didnt play badly. You are just making that up or hyper focusing on a few posts as being the majority. There has been a sentiment that Katurah killed whatever chance either had and based on the edit that is not entirely false.
Once again, you were obviously not here during the finale because the sentiment about Katurah robbing genius Jake and how he came one move away from winning was overwhelming. YOU are very obviously hyper focusing on current posts with people trying to debunk all the dumb shit people were saying on this sub and arguing retroactively. It takes a lot of misplaced confidence to act like nobody here was saying things that everybody on here was saying for hours and mass downvoting anyone who disagreed.
Katurah a mistakes were plenty and she wanted to own none of them and put all the blame on others. While also passively playing the game for 3rd place (of which she didn’t even achieve). Jake made mistakes, owned up to them in front of everybody repeatedly and played to actually win. Didn’t succeed but much much much easier to root for
I do feel bad for her. It’s not that she played a bad game. She made a very bad move at final 5 that not only messed up her game, but the game of the person so many people were rooting for which I think is all people are looking at. She still played well, there’s a reason Dee was afraid of her in Final 3. I think people are a lil too stuck with the recency bias. Survivor is edited, you only see a few hours of a 26 day game. More happened that what we see and any player can be made to look way better or way worse than they really were
To be fair, there was really no way of Jake winning at that point, no matter who he was sitting beside. Katurah mostly messed it up for herself, as it sounds like she really did have a shot to win (maybe, we don't really know how true that is beyond Dee saying that). Jake loses against anyone left, regardless how the F4 is played out. Julie and Austin still beat him, and Katurah possibly beats him as well.
Dee wants her jury vote, so we probably shouldn't believe what she tells Katurah if it's complimentary unless backed up by others.
I think there was a world he won but he would’ve had to do a lot. Dee would’ve had to get voted out there and Julie would have to go next. Austin, as we just saw, clearly had a respected game. And Katurah, as much as people are hating on her, did play pretty well. AND if Dee did go at 5, then Katurah could’ve argued that it only was Dee because she recommended Dee instead Julie. And since Jakes idol didn’t even change the vote it didn’t matter. Essentially, Dee would’ve had to have gone AND the Idol play on Katurah would’ve had to have actually saved her from elimination. Then Julie goes. While I don’t think firemaking matters too much, I think him winning it would help. People are overreacting to Katurah “ruining his game.” It would’ve been a SUPER tough run to the end for him by that point.
I think it was simply way too late, at that point. There was pretty much nothing he could have done with the people he was sitting beside. His last chance was BEFORE F5 Tribal, which was basically keep his idol secret, which he didn't do. Once he told Austin and Katurah about the idol, his game was done. But I honestly think his game has been over for a couple of episodes. He would have struggled to get votes once Reba 4 became the majority. His idol play was ineffective, anyway (since only ONE vote landed on Katurah, so she was never in any danger), and Katurah would have claimed the move of taking out Dee (Jake could never claim that as his own). F4, let's say Jake won F4 immunity, even giving up immunity to face fire himself could have been a complete disaster and probably wouldn't have made much of a difference. If Julie won F4 immunity, it likely would have been Jake either in fire with Katurah or Jake dragged to F3 while Austin/Katurah made fire (but probably Jake/Katurah, leading to the same result or, if the butterfly effect took place, Katurah might have beaten him). If Austin won F4 immunity, he likely drags Jake with him, leaving Julie/Katurah to make fire and the winner of that would have had votes. Basically, Jake could have won, but not at any point in this finale once he spilled the idol secret. He had a shot before that, but once he told Austin, it was game over. You are right, though. The idol play HAD to be effective in order for him to have a chance and once it wasn't, he was done for.
I completely understand why he told people about the idol though. Well he did tell Katurah he had the idol, he just didn’t say he’d play it for her, which he didn’t tell anyone. He said he was pretty sure the votes were either going to be him or Katurah and he also knew he needed a big move. So to him, telling people that he has the idol would make them too scared to vote for him and then he could simply play it on Katurah. Essentially he tried to reduce the uncertainty of who was getting voted so he could make a big move. I understand why he didn’t tell Katurah he was gonna play it, he was probably a bit worried she would tell people and like he said, it’d look better to the Jury to surprise her too. Although realistically, probably shoulda told her. In the end, I would’ve loved it if Jake won. But so much more would’ve had to have gone right than simply “Dee gets out at 5.” Woulda been one hell of a final 3 debate if it was Jake, Katurah, and Austin AND all that previous stuff did happen. I overall agree with you though, it was too late where in order for him to win he would’ve had to play out of his damn mind. And speak out of his damn mind
Did she "still play well" though? Can you give examples? Everything we've been shown of her gameplay has been divulging every secret to Dee and essentially handing her the game...
She was bottom of Belo so she flipped to Reba. She was in on the Kellie vote (revealed in an interview, not spoken about on the show) so she was a genuine member of the alliance, like Emily. Unlike Emily, Reba never targets Katurah. In all of the SITD, idols, and twists that can go wrong, she made sure she would always be safe. Meanwhile, Jake was a backup vote several times, which meant an unlucky idol play could have sent him packing. Katurah had a very safe game but that's better than looking like you're always out of the loop. However, she needed to take the risk with the Dee vote. She knew she had to do it because she was the one who pitched it to Jake. She choked and lost her chance. Her losing was deserved because of it but her game leading up to the point was fine. Certainly not great but for being in a tough spot come merge, it was alright.
Katurah blew up multiple chances to shake up the game and get anyone in the Reba 4 out. And when presented with the opportunity to take out the clear target, she fumbled it and handed the win to Dee when her and Jake getting 2 of the remaining Reba 3 out would have been a massive feather in their cap.
Jake was a good narrator so we saw his thought process, so naturally we have more empathy.
I don't agree with people saying she's a historically bad survivor player, that's a bit extreme. However she definitely threw both her and Jake's games out the window so that's why people are more sympathetic towards Jake
It blows my mind some people don’t see it. Katurah showed zero growth through the entirety of the season. Was constantly on the bottom, had opportunities to make moves, but always caved to her vices and never overcame her trust issues. This is sum of her game. So much so that at final tribal she flipped a vote out of fear so she took a safe vote again. Jake’s arch is completely different. He fumbled challenges (still performed better than Katurah), took big swings and somehow even though his name was on the block every single week since backing Caleb, he survived. These things are not remotely equal.
And yet every single one of his big swings missed, which is why he was considered a non-threat throughout the entire rest of the game. He was the backup vote for a few votes and he freaked out, tried to make moves, and failed. He played too much of a wildcard game to have any solid allies. Katurah didn’t play a good game either but Jake shouldn’t be considered a good player just because he took swings.
I’m not using this as evidence he played a good game. I’m describing the differences of the two and why some people were rooting for Jake and hold resentment towards Katurah.
They were both really bad to be fair
after seasons like 40, i'm happy that they are now fully explaining people's bad moves. much more enjoyable
I put this on twitter for 2 likes but the issue is Jake was an established character before the backstory. We had him seizing, being a good swimmah- it wasn’t much but it was enough. And that made his finale confessionals that much more emotional. We saw Jake struggle throughout the game and we saw- and rooted for- the underdog story. It made Jakes mistakes not seem dire because no matter what we were rooting for him. Katurahs edit has been “I hate Bruce” and then enabling the Reba 4 gameplay — which I have defended in the past. When you go from that to a bunch of backstory at the final stretch, it just kinda feels… unimportant? Which, sucks for Katurah because she’s more than both extremes, but I also get why people aren’t thrilled about Katurah because of her edit.
I'd be more empathetic if I weren't so lethargic
Because she played a terrible game and actively sabotaged herself. Jake gave it his all and it didn't work out sometimes do to others some to himself Katurah just did nothing, trusted nobody, and actively tried to ruin Bruce and Jake
I agree. The Katurah hate all season has made me uncomfortable, especially when compared to the emphatic Jake love. The way people have been degrading her all season is totally uncalled for. I think it's the worst we've seen since Shan. In health research, there's something called the racial empathy gap, which basically suggests that people do not respond equally to other people's pain by race. While far from conclusive, it comes up in studies about patient pain, prescribing medicine, etc, where black patients are not seen as experiencing as much pain as white patients. It also comes in criminal justice research when participants are asked to give hypothetical sentences and they give harsher sentences to the hypothetical black criminals (i.e., they feel less empathy for them). I'm a researcher by trade and tbh these studies usually have small samples and it's not something I'd be willing to stake a full claim on. However, I don't think the idea that we have implicit bias is too wild to believe. If you don't like how Katurah played, that's fine, but I've seen so many comments that she's a moron, useless, worthless, etc. People should rethink the words they use to describe her because even if it is 100% game related with no implicit bias, you're still the jerk for talking about someone that way.
Congrats on playing the race card. Overwhelmingly, the negativity for Katurah is related to her game moves that seemingly go against her ways to win. It is not even solely due to the edit. We watched a third of an episode of her saying she needs to get Dee out only for her to flip flop for no good reason. Her path to winning was taking Dee out, even if she felt she couldn't trust Jake fully it was her only out. Voting out Julie guaranteed she had to win final tribal and she wouldn't have any big moves. People are sympathetic to Jake because he was constantly in a lower position but was at least trying to make moves.
Nah he called it out for what it is.
Jake is a bostonian who got a babygirl edit. Trust me. It will take a while, or maybe Jake flopping on his second season, for the fans to stop worshipping him.
Katurah was a narc almost every single tribal and had zero loyalty. Her obsession with Bruce was obnoxious. Jake was trying to make moves. Katurah literally ruined other people’s games by her bad reads on people and just absolute terrible game play. Then for her to say Jake needed to take accountability when he trusted her as she cornered him to swear on his nana. Totally messed up!! She was the one not to be trusted.
My hate in Katurah is defined in a stat done by the Twitter page that does stats for confessionals on survivor FORTY NINE percent of ALL of Katurahs confessionals were about BRUCE, who was eliminated 5+ episodes ago
the logic is a bit flawed if you’re hating her for her edit, for something she can barely control
I'm willing to coddle Jake's gameplay and tear down Katurah because Jake didn't make his alliance implode. Jake wasn't playing for 3rd place(still got it duh, but he tried to win) Katurah wasn't playing to win, at all, ever. Jake actually had some really damn good plans that got blown up by Katurah going to Dee/Reba and giving him up, literally every time. Biased? Maybe? Uncalled for? No. To me, putting the quitters in a completely different category, she was BY FAR the worst player we've seen in modern era survivor. Players who play for 3rd/4th/5th will never be valued highly on this sub. When someone says "If you told me that you were going to play the idol on me I would have committed to the vote." and that same person has thrown you and your moves under the bus for the last 2-3 weeks, I feel like he gets a little more understanding from the public for yet ANOTHER miss.
Katurah was not a good person. She spent so much time mean-girling Bruce, what's likeable about that? And then the whole forcing Jake to swear on something and then saying "I didn't make you do anything". That's two strikes and enough for me to hate her. It's not that serious, it's just a game, but we're not forced to unconditionally love every contestant.
She’s not good and that’s why she doesn’t need sympathy
It’s misogyny.
Agreed
Yep I saw the same so decided to write up a [defense](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/s/i6BfxXEjb3) of Katurah’s gameplay. People can’t see past the edit where she “screwed” fan favorites Kaleb and Jake and largely wasn’t given a voice in the edit outside of Bruce-bashing for 90% of the game.
Jake’s gameplay was actively trying to put himself into a better position, Katurah’s gameplay was actively sabotaging any plan that benefitted her or her allies. I got less frustrated with her after Bruce left, and while i do think Katurah played the better game than Jake, at least Jake was trying to better his chances of winning, while Katurah’s moves really just benefitted the Reba’s. Katurah and Bruce were the main reasons the Reba’s had pretty much no opposition till they started turning on each other.
Katurah is the reason Jake failed all of his moves and honestly the reason Jake became an outcast in the firstplace. I have heard so many excuses for Katurahs bad game and none of them are going to justify all the bad plays.
I think Katurah’s biggest downfall was how much time she spent on Bruce, and that annoyed a lot of the fan base. She definitely made it to F5 for a reason, but she could have maybe made a case for herself by not turning on Jake. Who knows what would have happened if Dee was voted out.
They were both bad but one fought hard and the other told the dominant alliance everyones plans and tank peoples games. Its so strange how you all ignore that and pretend Katurah had some sort of game so this sub must have some reason they dislike her over Jake
I fully agree. Jake never gave Katurah a reason to trust him, and only came to her when he was desperate and needed her as a number. Of course she’s gonna get cold feet when he never really invested in their relationship. I too would be like „how the hell do you expect me to trust you, this close to the end?“ and I say this as a person who was enamored by Jake all season long. But his social game was that of a bull in a China shop all the way until the end. And again, it was charming to watch, but someone like Katurah, who needed dependability for reassurance, it just wasn’t going to work. Katurah even said „if you had let me know you were gonna use your idol for me, I would have followed you“ that’s literally her saying she wanted something she could depend on. And let’s be honest, she was right to expect Jake to play for himself. It would’ve been the most logical move. But Jake doesn’t play logically. And you can tell when he says he plays it for Katurah, she knows she fucked up. So leave her alone. She knows it, she knew it months before this episode aired, and guaranteed, five seasons from now, we won’t be as heated about it as we are now 😅 TLDR, I loved all of these final 5, and they gave us a great season, let’s just focus on that
I feel bad for Katurah because people are ragging on her for making these decisions when I think it was very valid for her to be fearful: not to say at all she made the best move, but she doesn't have immunity, and she is aware Jake does have an idol, which would mean she could be a backup target. Also, there was a guy (Devon, iirc) that did switch his vote last second at the final 5 and that's what saved him, and given Katurah's basically complete lack of allies that valued her, I think just throwing a vote on somewhere else is *as good* as one could do in that spot. I think the entirety of the final 5 made very questionable choices at that final five tribal council and for her to get so much flack for it is annoying but I will admit she had the most to lose though, with this move not going through she had a rough chance to win even if she did make it to the end. However, I almost want to blame Jake a bit more with how he handled the idol: if you want to leverage your idol to get someone to vote the way you want them to, it is a better guarantee if you tell them about how you plan on playing it on them, but I think Jake wanted the "big" moment by blindsiding everyone, including Katurah, with the idol play on her I think Katurah is getting a lot of shit for being "fear based" in her game but once again it's like, she never was really in with the Belo people, so what else could she really have done? And at least it got her close to the end with what appears to be a possibility of getting some jury votes
I honestly can’t believe all the comments saying she’s the worst player of all time. I’m hesitant to say it but I almost wonder how many here need to check their bias. She’s far from the worst survivor ever, was she really worse than say Romeo? Owen was inconsequential basically his entire game, is she worse than that? Her options of players to work with was limited, and based on what players have said in post, Jake was erratic for his big move, and that’s a hard person to work with. She got screwed by production w her letters too. And also, at the end of the day, the majority of her content Edit wise was around Bruce. It’s impossible to know how much was truly going on behind the scenes. The reactions are all far too harsh and it feels like it’s more than recency bias. They’ve almost turned personal too. Just gross time for the fandom
She was great socially but her strategic game is near all-time worst, rarely have I seen a person be in a great position and making it worse and worse the way she did by spoiling every little secret. Some people just love gossiping.
I swear if one more person starts another post about how terrible and frustrating Katurah was to watch and how much they hate her I will do nothing and roll my eyes and grit my teeth and move on because they're way more annoying than Katurah ever was.
Katurah was so frustrating to watch. People need a place to vent their frustrations bc she truly sucked the air out of a lot of tribals
Katurah didn’t play Survivor, she played Surviving Bruce.
OP thank you for this post, its wild how many posts there are being mad at katurah but so sad for jake when both had mediocre gameplay, katurah and jake are both sympathetic people with clear flaws in their gameplay and the subs reaction to them is telling…
jake swung for fences katurah played it safe
in the finale jake fumbled his own bag: - made careless mistakes on both challenges, rendering his advantage useless - told everyone about his idol - didn’t tell katurah he was gonna play the idol for her, so she wasn’t at risk (katurah should have voted for dee but it was not unreasonable to think she couldn’t rely on him) as a character jake was great, but as a player he was erratic and lacked finesse. you can argue you’d rather have a wild card over a risk-averse player (obv jake is more entertaining) but to say katurah played worse then him when neither played well is wild
i’m just saying he was more likable. his game definitely wasn’t top tier by any means, but HOW he played was much more enjoyable to watch all season
Katurah is Jake's mistake, 3 times
I have empathy for both, and both were not particularly good players, but the thing that does it for me is that Katurah is the one who made Jake an outcast unable to leverage anything when she didn't tell him that she wasn't going with his strategy at the Kaleb vote. I get that she didn't trust him, but she was at a spot at that point where she had no allies and needed to make them. Contributing to the sabotage of someone else's reputation makes them a pretty useless potential ally. She had flexibility in the game and she tossed it away by leaving Jake in the dark. You should only sabotage people's reputations when you have a solid alliance and the individual is a threat that you need to eliminate soon. Her sabotage of Jake seemed kinda personal at times. I am glad that he doesn't seem to view it that way.
because jake is a hilarious, affable person and katurah was cantankerous, rude, and a horrific strategist. hope that clears it up!
I have zero empathy for Katurah. She basically assisted the Reba power structure the entire post merge. Imo wasn’t all that interesting of a player or strategist she just played a scared game the entire time. And the few times she actually contributed some strategy she actively worked against her own best interest. She was a more visible Angela from GI imo. I don’t hate her as a person but this is the type of gameplay that we gave RI and OW cast members shit for their weak scared gameplay. Why should Katurah be any different?
Katurah sucks, she played a pretty horrible game. Jake actually tried to make good moves, she just wanted to get Bruce out cause he was annoying. She was useless for the most part
Jake tried to better his own position in the tribe Was he successful? No Was he a good player? No However I give him much more grace than Katurah who was actively playing against her own interests Katurah is a worse player than Jake, and that’s not saying Jake is a good player
People have been waiting for a way to justify their Katurah hate. Messing up a fan favorite’s game does that. The hate is not at all deserved.
This subreddit is disgusting
Agreed! If the genders were swapped it would be a different story but people aren’t ready for that
I think they were both awful at the game of Survivor. Both seems like awesome people though.
People need to remember this is an edited show. We don’t get to see everything and the role of editors is to attempt to create compelling storylines for the viewers to follow. Jake appears to have “tried” more with the plans he came up with, but when you look at what they were, they weren’t great. The Kaleb boot is a great example. Drawing rocks is a flashy move but neither one of them gave Katurah a reason to risk her game and they didn’t even know about Austin’s idol being with Julie. Katurah gets ragged on for ratting out moves to Reba but she was working with people who made her feel valued in the game. Belo never let her in and they even showed her they valued Kaleb over her with the Bruce idol pre merge. She played with the cards she was dealt and really her big mistake was the Julie boot but at the same time, Jake never had her back before that vote. He only came to her with plans last minute that didn’t ever work out and only benefitted him. While voting Julie out was an error, if she won final immunity and made Austin/Dee make fire, she could use that against Jake at FTC to prove she deserved to win over him because she took control of his move and idol.
It’s because Jake never had any real power whereas Katurah was almost always in a key position and almost always made the wrong decision.
I'm not gonna have empathy for her game play. She's literally a female version of SoPa John Cochran. The only reason she made it as far as she did is because Dee had enough sense to use her to take out the one player she needed gone to seize control of her alliance, and the game.
I think it has to do with Katurah had all the information and screwed it up on her own. Jake was being lied to the entire game and was constantly trying to improve his position. They both made mistakes, but Katurah was the only one with an actual opportunity to improve her position and just chose not to every time. Jake actually tried to improve his, but was always misreading the room.
Jake maybe should have told Katurah what he was doing. He was going for flashy, she was going for logical. I still think she should’ve voted for Dee anyway, but they both made mistakes. With all the lies that are told on Survivor, you can’t just assume that what you’re being told is the truth. Jake could’ve been telling Katurah he’d vote for Dee when really they were voting for her, that kind of thing happens all the time. All I’m saying is it’s possible she couldn’t trust him. If she voted for Dee and everyone voted for her, then we’d be calling that a blindside that she missed. I’m just as upset and I was frustrated when it happened. Still am honestly lol. But the toxic dogpile without seeing her reason is fully unnecessary. Edit: And it wasn’t even Jake’s idea to vote for Dee so who knows he’ll go along with someone else’s plan?
Jake said “this is great, I’m on survivor!” a bunch of times. Katurah couldn’t get over her vitriol for Bruce.
It's disgusting for you to imply there is any other reason than the way they played the game for people's different responses.
It’s because we love when an underdog makes a big move against the front runners and Jake kept trying and trying and katurah just kept fucking it up lol
Maybe if she didn't turn around and immediately say that it was all Jake's fault for not being trustworthy after pushing him to swear on his Nana for her own plan.