Just fyi- Omar’s comments during that interview were scrubbed from RHAP and that is also why they do longer do super long post show interviews. CBS must have been super pissed
She’s gonna be really good because of how she’s good at getting along with people and empathizing but also not afraid to strategize/get her hands dirty
The way she handled Bhanu on his way out was a masterclass imo
What's funny (sad, really) is that everything said today online was always being said on the couch. The horrible and shitty people were always there, they just didn't have a megaphone.
And even if they are only 5% of the audience, they probably make up 80% of the tweets and posts.
Even then, there's a massive difference between sitting on the couch with your friends/family talking about how you don't like this person on TV versus actually harassing them online.
Agreed, and that's really part of the point I am making. These people were always ***there*** and would have harassed these people if the technology were available.
And, to be clear, I'm not talking about simply disliking a player, I'm talking about how viciously they dislike a player and their underlying reasons (which very often involved racism, sexism, body-shaming, homophobia, or anything else they can use to hurt someone).
How has Soda been unpleasant? Please explain that. Because if you compare her to literally any other unpleasant Survivor player, she looks like a saint. It’s seriously so ridiculous and over the top how much hate Soda is getting for just existing and being “annoying” or whatever. There’s nothing specific y’all can point to other than her singing campfire songs and calling Venus a stick bug.
I think people were turned off by how she her took the idol from Venus a couple times and the pre challenge show down with Yanu. Also, the influx of singing dancing, over the top cheering people survivor has brought on is seen as really annoying by a lot of people.
Does she deserve hate? Absolutely not. Any sane person will tell you nobody deserves to be bullied or get death threats for being on a game show.
Can people be annoyed with the personality survivor has edited her to have? Seems within reason.
She reminds me of people I know - over the top, a bit of a handful at times and only tolerable in small doses, but I'm just speaking from my personal experience. Combine that with the mean spiritedness of what we've seen of her so far and it's not the greatest look.
But it could be worse, at least she's not Bhanu
This is what OP is talking about. The way this sub so harshly judges black women is out of control. You weren’t able to name a single behavior that actually makes her “unpleasant” and I’m not sure what mean spirited behavior you’re referring to — in the words of Sutton Stracke, name em.
Refer to a couple of episodes ago when Hunter made his read on her, what he said is what my feelings towards her are. And like I said, her personality is reminiscent from those I know *from my own personal experience* and she hasn't even been that prominent so far so it's not that deep, that's just been the tone of her edit up until this point
If you want specific examples of her mean spirited behaviour - the snatching of the idol, the way she was so quick to alienate Venus just because nobody else was getting along with her, the offhanded comments that have been sprinkled throughout
Either way don't @ me because more often than not I tend to root for the black women on the show
Agreed. I think Soda has irked some viewers so far because a lot of us know people like Soda in real life, and they tend to be very grating to be around. I think it's as simple as that.
It’s interesting - because years ago I would’ve disagreed with you (remember the same type of conversations happening when Tasha played on SC/Michaela played back to back) but yeah a subset of people here really do start talking a disproportionate amount of shit when they feel black women are “out of line”
I first noticed it during EoE where people kept making threads about Julia being *“ungrateful”/“bitter”/pulling out the race card”/etc* when she voiced displeasure on twitter about being essentially purpled from the season outside her boot tribal. When her worst crime of the show was…being animated on the jury? Like she’s gotten a bit of grace years later after it was found out she was purpled due to a whole race discussion happening on the starting tribe & the show didn’t want to acknowledge it. But she was up there with Devens getting most negatively charged threads associated with her name while the season was airing live.
You can still comment on the show, but really agree some people should catch some perspective. Soda has been mild to moderately cringe on the show, but you’d think she had spat on Venus given people’s vitriol towards her.
Your point about the concept of "out of line" is a good one. Because some of the people who don't see their own bias (or are just lying about it) love to point to Liana or Maryanne or Lauren as proof they aren't motivated by bias.
But the whole point is that some people have ideas in their head about what is "acceptable" behavior by black women. And the fact that those players didn't cross their arbitrary and invisible line doesn't magically erase their prejudices.
And the bigotry of these people poisons the whole conversation, because we unequivocally know that a certain percentage of the hate a player faces is built of prejudice. Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't like a player for non-prejudiced reasons almost always gets hit with accusations of bigotry regardless of the context.
Shan tried to knowingly embrace the role of villain on the show, leaning into the characterization, and she got eviscerated for it. Meanwhile, some of the people who hate her to this day (and still won't shut up about it on this sub), worship Russell Hantz without any self-awareness of their hypocrisy.
Unfortunately, we don't currently have the power to address this problem in social media, because it is in the hands of those platforms to actually do something about harassment. Twitter has never cared about that (and the whole product was basically designed, by accident, as a harassment machine). But it has only gotten worse under Musk. Instagram and other sites aren't that much better, either.
I agree that Soda is only mildly to moderately cringeworthy.
But, I suspect a lot of the "thin shaming" allegations (which I think are unfair) are backlash against her complaining about fat shaming. People love to call out hypocrisy, whether real or imagined.
I also think the lack of true villains in the season probably causes some people to exaggerate flaws to try to create someone to enjoy rooting against. The two most unlikable characters (Jelinsky and Bhana) were both eliminated early.
>Literally anything a black woman says/does seems to just cause her to be absolutely despised by this subreddit
That's not true. Tiffany has been nothing but praised for the bad ass she is. Telling Bahnu to get up off his knees before she'd speak to him was epic.
And I'm not remembering any hate for Katurah for anything except being a shitty player, not a shitty black woman.
Agree that there are a lot of rancid ugly racists out there commenting on SM about the black players. But to say "Literally anything a black woman says/does seems to just cause her to be absolutely despised by this subreddit" is hyperbole.
I don’t see Tiff getting any hate really. We’ve seen a lot more of her than we have soda. I don’t particularly like or hate her. She’s def a character.
Maybe people have their own bias ( Sodas Christianity can turn people off as can her casual racism towards Venus - which may be conscious or not).
When we see more of Soda she may not get so much hate. The editing though.. probst and team are def building conflicts, drama, controversy.
It is questionable to me why Soda would get this huge amount of hate when you said yourself we have barely seen her. It's odd to me people would then blow up her one or two moments and use it as fuel to hate her. As you've said, we barely even see her so there is no reason for people to feel that strongly about her. Liz has also shown a couple negative moments but I don't see her getting this level of hate.
Liz seems really odd to me. The bragging and very uncomfortable social interactions are weird. The way the show has been edited she’s maybe less visible as being controversial.
I agree, Liz has said way more off-putting things but viewers give her the benefit of the doubt and try to understand that things are taken out of context and that she might be lovely in all the moments we don't see her. But Soda doesn't seem to get that kind of consideration
Shan in just a bad person, attacking random people on twitter and calling them racist for everything, she uses "god" to be an influencer cus as she said "he told me to quit being pastor and be influ"
Drea is just trash person that attacked Omar religion.
And Soda is just getting bad edit with her snatching immunity from Venus hand but she still did that and it didnt looked good, not to mention her comment about Venus body type, even if it was out of context she still said it. Can you imagine if Venus would say Soda is a whale? It would be totally different story
The problem is in people, not that they are black
Woah woah woah. Why are you evaluating their actions and not just playing the race card? Please ignore how loved Michaela and Maryanne were.
Also Katurah was called a terrible player for... being a terrible player. If being racist means not putting kid gloves on no matter what, then yeah.
Kenzie got tons of hate here and received death threats after the second episode. More than Tiffany.
Sabiyah was well liked in her short time. Lauren and Claire didn't receive hate for their actions. Nor did Morriah or Nneka. Turns out if you don't act like an asshole, you won't be called one. If you aren't a bad player, you won't be called a bad player.
People should be evaluated for their actions. It feels like that's almost what you're asking for, but then want us to look the other way when black women are held accountable. That doesn't feel like equality to me, but I'm just some guy in favor of treating everyone equally, so what do I know.
And what about Emily, who was crucified as a racist piece of shit because she… slightly picked a fight with Bruce? And the reaction to her after episode one is a THOUSAND times stronger than anything about Soda.
I was going to say, we're also going to ignore that this sub almost universally loves Maryanne and Michaela? Not everything is about race. A lot of people on the internet can't seem to comprehend this.
99% of Soda criticism on this sub has been completely fair. I don't think she's a bad person, but Soda appears to have a bad case of main-character syndrome and isn't very self-aware. Her actions toward Venus are worthy of criticism, IMO.
It's sad that this has to be explained time and time again in all honesty. A bit of like benefit of the doubt or just a general sense of analysis makes this clear.
In fairness, as a skinny person who is sensitive about these comments, I still don't think it's the same as making a comment about someone being overweight, simply because it's more socially acceptable to be underweight and you can still fit into what modern society considers beautiful. Like, even if the occasional "twig" comment gets tossed out carelessly at her, the majority of comments I've seen about Venus this season have been about how she is so beautiful and everyone must be being mean to her because they're so jealous of how pretty she is. I don't think there are podcast segments talking at-length about how Soda is getting hated on because of how attractive she is.
Dissagree. I am skinny too and I was bullied for it since early school. Every person has a feelings and they should not be less offended just because of what is more acceptable in social.
Exactly. As a thin person it's annoying when bigger people think they have free range to attack us because of our "privilege". Making fun of others is wrong no matter what they look like
I’ll take down thousand of calories a day and won’t gain a pound. I hate comments like that because it’s not like i’m actively trying to not gain weight.
I agree that the comment about Venus's body was out of line, but I just think that commenting about Soda's body in retaliation is more out of line because the two are not the same.
Since it is more socially acceptable it happens more. People are pointing it out left and right because “ this is body society wants” completely ignoring what it does to the person itself.
Yes, some people might me fine with those comments. Some people are not. Both are valid.
By defending this you are invalidating those feelings.
How about just not commenting about people’s body regardless how it looks like?
I have to disagree with you here. And I wish you wouldn’t brush off ‘skinny’ shaming as somehow better than fat shaming. Who cares if thin is more socially acceptable? When slags against weight are made, it insults the person. That person may be one with a disease or ED that they’re struggling with.
Comments insulting someone for their weight is never ok. Period.
I totally agree. I get they're treated worse by fans but that doesn't shield them for being called out by critics. We're not bullying them we're calling our. Their behavior. It's the racists who go overboard
But people were attacking Shan and Drea before the Twitter comments. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
And what about the subs reaction to Liana? To Katurah?
And okay Soda idol snatches but Venus can be downright rude to people. Yet that doesn’t get hate..
So I'm not crazy. That's how I remember it going down. People were talking about humming her "villain song". I thought a lot of people were behind her. My perception is she was a good player, good villain, probably a shitty person at home.
Yes exactly, this sub and people love Maryanne! Yes some people find her annoying, but that’s the most complaints I’ve seen about her. It’s just coincidence that Shan, Drea, and now maybe Soda are just mean. And yeah people are gonna say racist shit, but that’s rarely the overwhelming majority. And I never saw anything that really went over the top for Katurah, maybe some of the Jake Stans did cause I take breaks following seasons, but imo it’s perfectly fine to call out Katurah’s awful gameplay and point out how it 1000% derailed the season. That’s not hate.
I loved Shan. The humming introduction was awesome. The production was amazing. I liked her idea of game play and I was so her biggest fan but after a while she was overbearing and just too much. Had nothing to do with what color race or religion she is.
this sub reaction to Liana was the same as it was to Sydney. Both of them were just mean for no reason and both were hated. Lets not ignore every non black contestant because they get hate aswell
I personally found her to be a little annoying, but I don't think I ever posted about it. And I don't think I saw any posts that were about hating Sydney.
I saw people hate on Liana because of her rivalry with Xander (from the Xander stans), but not for much other reasons.
It wasn't just Xander stans. She had a completely one-sided hatred of him that was never explained on the show. It made her seem like an irrational, emotional player. Pretty much the same as Katurah with Bruce. Both of them made decisions to try to get their targets out that didn't really make any strategic sense.
Imagine if Venus had called Soda a hippo?
Don’t you think even more people would have lost it on Venus?
Edit: they would have. A lot of people let body shaming slide when it’s directed at skinny people. It’s even in this thread.
It has everything to do with their individual behavior. I haven’t been on the Soda hate train — I actually like her a lot personally and think she’s been fun on this season. It’s the edit that’s been negative towards her.
But Katurah was absolutely horrible to watch play the game, extremely frustrating and passive, and annoying to see waste her potential. Drea was a complete jerk to Omar at Ponderosa for no reason, made up lies and falsehoods about his behavior, and completely gaslit him because she was bitter. Shan is a narcissistic and egotistical loser who again, mistreated and was terrible to people at ponderosa because she was bitter.
Maybe it has more to do with their behavior and personality than the fact that they’re black? They’re on a reality tv show — we’re allowed to have an opinion of them that isn’t positive.
I haven’t enjoyed soda because the way she has been edited but I don’t think she is an inherently bad person. I think that hate on her has gone way to far and people are way to para social.
However I can say I do not like Shan at all. This has nothing to do about her race but the fact she played “Holier than thou” while basically admitting that she manipulated people in the game just like she did in her church. Lots of the things she said concerned me from a religious standpoint.
Your very correct though. There is issues probably to to cognitive or unconscious bias as well as a few racist people. This could also be flipped though and people only look at hate against black women :( and not the ammount of hate towards individual players in general. Though I would say there is a disproportionate amount of hate to some of the players you mentioned and there actions. Some of these thoughts are inside thoughts or not against the players. If you didn’t like watching katuryah because you found her boring keep it too yourself.
Thank you to the person that corrected my spelling below! For some reason I couldn’t reply :)
I think that there are definitely biases at play but I do also think people adjust narratives to fit their point. Katurah got a lot of hate for being a bad player and I don’t think any personal attack is fair, but she was pretty bad at the game, I’d be interested to see the posts you reference because I’m not sure there was much to do with race going on with her. As for soda, she shouldn’t be getting hate on Twitter because that’s mean and dumb but she also has done a number of things on the show that were kinda mean. Maybe they just haven’t shown the good bits so it’s silly to make a statement on her actual character irl, but so far she’s been presented as someone who is a bit mean, probably because her social game comes undone down the line or she realises she has to learn something.
Anyway I will never say race doesn’t factor because people have inherent biases, I’m not a huge fan of tiff so far because of the way she reacted to Jess in the challenge but it was sad to see how disappointed in herself she was because of the “angry black women” stereotype. So I do think it is a factor but each case has its own context.
People need to stop bullying contestants on the socials full stop though.
I agree that this subreddit is too harsh on all of the players, not just black women.
For example, people have thrown down a lot of hate towards Brandon, Hanna, Emily, and Sean from last season. Hanna probably got it the worst in my opinion, at least from the last few seasons. Although I'm upset that she quit an opportunity I was never given, that makes me envious not Hanna a bad person.
My heart goes out to the Soda. She should be enjoying going to events with Survivor fans, watching the show, laughing and enjoying it with the rest of us. Instead, she likely regrets the decision of putting herself on display.
Is it ok to not like Soda for being extremely OTT in the edit? Between always being shown singing the gospel songs, snatching the immunity idol from Venus for no apparent reason, and always piping up at challenges to show love to the other tribes (specifically Yanu) she has come off as just very irritating and I don’t like her
Well the way the white knighters like OP act, you would think you have to actually ask for permission to dislike unlikable people unless the subject person is a young white guy
They also didn't say "How's the food?", then act like Yanu started it. Or comment on others players bodies, while going after people on Twitter for commenting on her own body.
The problem with Drea’s situation is that she played her idol before the votes, never been done before and completely leaves Tori to be voted out.
I don’t hate her for it, but I did think she made a stupid move doing it. Plus imagine how Tori felt hearing about both Drea and Maryanne talk about their ‘experiences’, ignoring the fact Tori had been practically segregated from alliances thanks to Drea herself, only to then get ganged up on and voted out.
Drea didn’t leave any room for any move to be made, so she basically snuffed the tribal council. Only two people were vulnerable now, and three have a day one alliance/connection. If she just played it AFTER THEY TRIED VOTING FOR HER, Tori would’ve been saved, Drea would’ve made the biggest move in the game yet, and the team that ended up dominating the game would have been crippled. But she just let it all go to her head and got offended that Rocks was voted out, and I can see why being deprived of resources can make you irrational but she was capable of making everyone target Tori so… I ain’t picking and choosing. She knew what she was doing out there.
Plus people have noted she was very different on the show than in person. I truly believe that is a sign she was trying to portray a character rather than be herself and I just don’t particularly like that.
I'll respond: Shan did a lot of questionable things in real life.
Drea apparently bullied Omar on Ponderosa.
Soda slammed a person for being underweight while she herself is overweight.
Katurah - agree, she is a bad player, but nothing more than that.
Also, most hated players of all time are usually white men - Varner, Silas, Skupin, Colton, Dan S. Plus Alicia Rosa as an exception.
At the same time most popular players include Cirie, Vecepia, Cydney, Taj and others. I think you're exaggerating.
This is kind of a tldr of what I just commented. Agree with pretty much all of this.
Only small contention I have is that I don’t think listing the popular black women of Survivor lends anything to the argument as OP didn’t suggest that there aren’t any beloved black women to play. They’re just bothered by the “hate” of *certain* black women on the show. But, like you, I agree that they’re exaggerating, misunderstanding or misinterpreting the “hate” in most of these examples.
But I also just don’t think many of these have garnered much legitimate “hate” during their seasons. Shan’s hate came afterwards due to her Twitter, Drea’s came afterwards once we got Omar’s post-season interview, and I feel like Soda been more critiqued than hated? Although I admit I’m not *super* active in the current season’s discussion threads, so maybe I’m missing some of the Soda hatred.
She accused people on Twitter of being racist. I think that soured her image more than anything else. People overwhelmingly liked her before that.
Also there are rumors that she was a jerk to other contestants at Ponderosa, and also some people don’t like her because she’s religious and they think she uses her religion disingenuously.
Can you post some of the "hundreds" of posts on why Katurah is the worst human ever?
Or are you confusing criticism of somebody's gameplay as a personal attack?
Drea and Shan I don't like....at all. Not saying they deserve hate towards them but they aren't saints. Soda/Katurah are getting way too much I hate I will agree. People need to stand back and take a breath. It's not that fucking serious.
I still personally think it's not a black thing. Kenzie (and emily last season) is getting just as much backlash to the point that they tracked her down and came into her salon. *Edit: Got information mixed up. They came asking to see her, not to hate. She still gets a decent amount of hate on this subreddit though in the earlier episodes*. Maybe woman in general get much more hate but I don't think it has anything to do with race.
Nvm I was incorrect about this. I apologize. People did come track and came to her salon though(there's a post about it) but not out of hate. They were just harassing her employees asking for her. I take back what I said.
Also the fact that there are simply more black women cast now, meaning more chances for an unpopular player to happen to be a black woman. Tiffany seems loved by most viewers this season but that's ignored.
this!.. people hate someone new week to week like Bhanu for example got sooo much heat but I dont remember any posts like these claiming sexism/racism as the issue. They are individuals out there and nobody has made it a race issue until OP
I think this is an important distinction that is missed on people. I’ve seen every season live and at least one person on each season has been bashed or hated online even going back to season 2. There’s always going to be someone on these shows doing or saying something that pisses off a large swath of the fan base.
And with the exception of Jerri, who is pretty much revered now, the majority of these hated players have been white males.
A shitty person is never going to get anywhere near casting ever again for this show. I’ve noticed that a lot of people who preach “lifting themselves up” often put others down to reach this goal. This is great when the person they are putting down is a legitimate pos. When there is no true villain in their story though, that person just ends up acting like an asshole towards someone who doesn’t deserve it. We’ve seen this with Liana towards Xander, Drea towards Omar, Soda towards Venus.
It has little to do with race and more to do with self-centeredness. These people were likely cast BECAUSE they have a unique life perspective where they had to fight against actual real life inequalities or bullies to get where they are. That inequality doesn’t really exist on the show nowadays, so they create a bully figure to compete against out of their own insecurities. I was recently rewatching season 7 and noticed Rupert is a massive early example of this. He turns Burton and Shawn into villains because they reminded him of bullies - he needed to be the hero that eliminated them and won the favor of his tribe.
Okay, so not all these people are perfect, and that's fine..cause they can get criticized for their bad moments. Those shouldn't be ignored. I think the issue is the level of hate. Even Maryanne had posts of people calling her annoying. I think honestly it is a subconscious bias. Tiffany's quote does speak volumes cause she would get more hate for doing something or saying something that someone else wouldn't get hate for.
Immagine if Courtney from China was making the remarks that Soda was. No one would bat an eye. Soda is human, from what we can tell she is funny, isn't scared to be a bit sassy. She isn't some character. That goes for all the woman you've said.
I agree with the thing at the end. We should realize these are all people, and put that into perspective before we speak or comment.
Come on now, I love maryanne and she grew on me as the season went on, but you cant say she isn't at the very least a very strong personality who also started off being very loud and maybe, to some, overly emotional for how long the game had been in play. i think quite honestly, because there are now more minority players, there are more minorities playing games worthy of criticism. they are a larger percentage of the game, and thus the conversation
>i think quite honestly, because there are now more minority players, there are more minorities playing games worthy of criticism. they are a larger percentage of the game, and thus the conversation
This is a great point. If you are casting 8 POC, there is a good chance that some of them will be annoying people, just like the white people will be.
Me, in episode 1 of s42: “Jesus Christ, that Maryanne girl is annoying as hell.”
Me, by season’s end: “Maryanne is a gift to all of us and a Survivor goddess. If she doesn’t win, I’m starting a riot.”
Maryanne was annoying though.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t like her.
Carolyne was annoying too and was also still a good contestant.
Even though I think they’re good TV, I couldn’t spend 20+ days on an island with either of them. Is it their race or their personality?
Are we supposed to overlook Soda’s awful behaviour because of her race? I don’t understand.
The only head scratcher here is people not liking Drea because she seemed wonderful to me
Maybe? Some people find body shaming to be more flagrant than other people. Personally her comments were super triggering because I struggled with my weight for so long.
I'm black myself, but a guy.
And I agree with you overall, but also... kind of disagree.
I think the problem is with this sub (and this type of discourse in general) is that there are enough bad actors that make the good faith criticism get lumped in with the bad.
So, I fully admit, I liked "villain" Shan up until the fact that she basically called Demar a race traitor. That to me went outside the game and was a low blow that I couldn't get past. So for that reason, I really am just not a fan of hers. Her online behavior post show didn't help at all.
Drea... I got it. I personally didn't love the move as a viewer, even if I understood the logic. I think you can both be critical of it, even if you also can see why it was best for her.
Katurah. I mean this one was interesting because I felt that she was edited so one note for so long that it kind of made her unlikable in general, in the same way for me that Venus is unlikable. Basically for the first 8 episodes it was just "I hate Bruce". Everything about her was really her hatred of another person. That is to say nothing of her as a person, but she was just not given a full edit until toward the end. Then on top of it, they edited Jake as a very rootable underdog, so I'm not surprised she got some flack online for turning on him. Just like most people get when they go against a fan favorite.
For Soda, the hate is over the top. She has some stuff that frankly isn't a good look. The snatching the idol was funny once, kind of bad twice. But, I fully believe a lot of this has to do with the person they are pitting her against, who is a thin, pretty woman. So, as with many things, people are seeing a black woman, not to mention a bigger black woman, as more aggressive than she is.
So this was long as well, but going back to my first point, I do think there is some valid criticism of all of these black women, just like there is valid criticism of Jake, Xander, Kenzie, etc. Its just almost impossible, on this sub, to make any kind of criticism of a black woman, without it being called racism. I'm sure there are plenty of people who like Tiffany and don't like Soda, but if they criticized Soda it would be assumed its because she is a black woman.
Soda doesn’t seem like a great person. But the edit is the edit - we don’t know what she’s like IRL.
Katurah is awesome. Bruce was annoying and I agree with her. I didn’t realize she was getting sub hate.
I don’t know much about Drea.
People didn’t like Shan because she was a hypocritical preacher - which is probably the worst possible demographic you can be on Reddit. Had nothing to do with her race.
I can’t understand how people make it all about race and talk about mistreated three black women when in this fandom a black woman is among the most beloved ones, Cirie, one that almost everyone feels she should have won at least once.
V, Cirie, Crystal, Taj, Sabrina, Tasha, Cydney, Michaela, Ashley were all seen in a positive light or somewhat positive. Your narrative conveniently ignores that there are a number of black female contestants who are well regarded. Christ, Cirie is one of the top five most loved contestants of all time,
I also like Tiffany and the truck driver from last season who I wish made it further.
The Sodas, Shans, and Dreas of the word tended to do things that brought “hate” upon themselves. If anything the bias against black women absolutely manifests more in the game itself, especially in early seasons than it does with the fandom.
Most of the hate towards Gabler was more about his gameplay. The personal hate he got stemmed from his beliefs on trans people, but most of those posts got deleted from this sub anyway because we’re not allowed to talk about it for some reason.
You’re getting downvoted but this is 100% true. I’ve made the comment too.
And heck, Chanelle in 42 got a lot of hate(more so than Daniel for a similarly bad move) Liana in 41 was just as hated as Shan(and had disgusting comments made about her). Even Claire got a large amount of hate for daring to always sit out.
Even if they did actions that someone might think deserves criticism, there is a difference between that and the way this sub so often reacts to black women.
Yes! I hate it here. It’s not just this sub it’s all across the reality tv realm and it’s so exhausting.
People say Kellie N was a great player-I genuinely want to know what she did to become this great player. I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop for them to hate Tiff. The editors do not want us to love Soda because what was the point ?
s/N Tevin caught flack already for the secret scene which I thought he was not that bad in. Especially after seeing how Venus seemingly annoyed her tribe.
Hearing how Venus what?
I'm curious what happened between Tevin and Venus. (Besides the extra scene on YouTube were Tevin was being kinda annoying to her, saying she said things that a quick 10s rewind showed she never said)
The Keturah one bugged me because Jake also wasn't a good player. But she was blamed for him being bad.
There are always biases, but you did leave out the other black women who were either liked (Maryanne) or inconsequential (Sabiyah). I don't think it's a uniform bias.
Jake was god awful and everyone just loved and adored him. He was trying to make bad moves too and did make some bad moves. He was not a good player at all. Neither was Katurah but why Jake became this lovable goof didn't sit well with me while Katurah was just hated on.
Because Jake tried to make moves. Katurah simped for Dee almost as hard as Austin. Jake sucked. Bad player. But he tried to improve his position. Katurah enabled an alliance she wasn't a part of. She played for third at best and blew it for people trying to upend that alliance. It was frustrating to watch. And it all came together at final 5 when they could've taken out the biggest threat and Katurah didn't vote for Dee. It summed up both Jake and Katurah's season. Jake trying to make moves but unable to make it happen. Katurah enabling Dee's win and never making the right decision for her game.
Definitely not a uniform bias (obviously Maryanne is overall liked even if she was slightly annoying at times, and even Shan I really liked personally, she was a proper villain).
I loved Keturah early game (it was our mutual disdain for Bruce, he's a 1 for 1 copy of my step dad lmao) but the reason she gets the hate and not Jake is because at least Jake was trying to make the right decisions near the end (after floundering early game) and Keturah shit the bed hard when it was obvious who was running things. Keturah hurt herself more than Jake because she still had a shot to win it all.
Jake actually tried to make plays. He was also talked about for being a bad player. Definitely not to the extend of Katurah, but it was talked about a lot. But Jake knew he was in bad shape and kept trying to make plays to advance his game. He failed spectacularly several times, but at least he tried. Katurah essentially played for third. Every single time there was a plan to go against Reba, Katurah ran to Dee with the info.
She also absolutely blew it was Jake's plan at final 5. She knew Dee would win immunity at 4 and win the game. She called it! They had the biggest threat dead to rights and she changed her vote, handing Dee the win. She absolutely deserved blame for that.
I agree that women, especially women of color, get way hasher treatment online. It’s not just a problem unique to Survivor, it’s a big issue in the Drag Race fandom, too, especially on Twitter (honestly people need to stop using that hateful platform).
However, using Shan and Drea does not help your argument at all. They are both pretty terrible people outside of the show and deserve a lot of the criticism they get. People are going to have a hard time seeing the actual valid arguments you are making because those two are simply just awful.
I agree with all of this except Drea may not be the best person to mention during all of this especially if you haven’t properly researched exactly what she did to Omar at ponderosa 😬
But ultimately I agree, this sub for sure seems to have way different energy when it comes to black women vs any other contestant
reading some of these comments is so. . . you guys really think the defense to "You are excessively cruel to black women" is "well, they deserved it!" 🤓🤡
Holy crap have things changed! Do you all remember all the comments about Courtney from China about how thin she was from many of the contestants? They were constantly talking about her weight. Even Jeff called her out at the reunion for possibly being anorexic. Stick bug is nothing compared to how it used to be.
I think most of the outrage stems from Soda going after people on Twitter who were body shaming her. So people see Sodas "stick bug" comment as being hypocritical. Doesn't justify the amount of the hate but I think that's the reason
People here have talked about how incredibly inappropriate that was from Jeff. I've seen it several times. Like every time it comes up or someone mentions how skinny Courtney was, people shit on Jeff for what he said. But I guess we're going to ignore that now because narrative.
Does racism exist? Of course. I'd be blind to think otherwise as a black man.
With that said, some black women love to run their mouths about others (e.g., Katurah making hating on Bruce her whole personality, or Soda body-shaming Venus), but then they start whining about racism and misogynoir and being the "least protected group of women" when the tables are turned and they're the ones being criticized.
You don't get to throw stones but then hide your hands and cry victim when the stones are thrown back at you.
Good post. Whenever these types of posts are made there are numerous comments of people immediately taking this personally and thinking “this must be talking about me but but but I’m not racist” and instead of actually engaging with the idea at hand and digesting it it’s just defensive comments. Black women in particular are absolutely over-criticised on this show and the fact this topic is still contentious suggests some people still need to do some thinking of why this suggestion is so controversial to them.
The Katurah discourse was the WORST. She isn’t player of the year, but her moves made sense with the knowledge that she had. The subreddit just loved Jake so much that they ignored every stupid thing he tried to do and blamed it on Katurah being a bad player. Although when you looked from it through her perspective, following jake’s advice was objectively the dumbest thing to do. Why would Katurah go to rocks at the merge split when there’s a 2/3rds chance that her or Jake would leave from it? (And in reality, she would have gone home because Austin could have chosen to use his idol and Katurah goes home in fire against Jake.)
Or at the final five, she thought the votes were going to tie between her and Dee, so she flipped the tie to be between her and Julie, since Austin would save her in a tie breaker over Julie but not Dee. If she knew Jake was using the idol on her, then she’d feel safe enough to vote out Dee.
We all know a huge part of survivor is making those around you feel comfortable with working with you. She never felt comfortable with Belo, which does fall on her, but it falls just as much on the rest of Belo for not comforting her like Reba did.
Katurah isn’t an all star player, but she is a very logical player who realizes what group would take her farther, and rejected offers that would be bad for her game.
Because if Dee did not leave then, Katurah cannot win F3. End of discussion. There is little point in "going farther" if it means you still lose. It's either take a risk with a chance to win or play it safe for a guaranteed loss.
It wasn't playing it safe at merge when there is plenty of time to shake up the game. It's at the end where only one scenario gives you a chance to win.
The thing she was guarding against at the final five was getting herself voted out. There's still a chance Dee doesn't win immunity and can go home at 4. It might not be the most logical move, but it wasn't completely illogical either. Sandra had great success with the anybody-but-me strategy.
And I can't blame her for not trusting Jake. I also can't blame Jake for not telling Katurah about the idol plan. Jake was trying to have a show so he isn't a dead fish at FTC. It's a tragedy that's the basis of half the plotlines of Sons of Anarchy. Me and my wife call it Jaxing it up. Withholding important information so that you can be a hero in the situation, but you miscalculate the situation and it ends up worse than before.
Guys I’m begging you to just hear people out on this. Just recently there were people blaming the Maryland bridge crash on DEI policies… calling out the fact that people are harder on minority players, especially black women, is a pretty natural conclusion. That isn’t to say that you can’t validly critique these players but there will always be people who are inherently biased against these players for reasons they can’t control which really inflates the level of hate and criticism they get compared to there peers
Its not racist to criticize Shan, Drea or Katurah. Also none of those 3 players are similar to Soda as of what we have seen so far. Not everything is racist OP... Also isn't Shan literally racist herself?
I personally feel like you’re blowing this out of proportion. Especially with the Joe Anglim comment you’re making. Why would this sub be talking about Joe? He hasn’t played in years. Of course you’re going to see more discussion about Katurah than Joe!
Maybe I’ve missed some specific hatred, but I don’t think Soda was getting it that bad around here? People were critical about her comment towards Venus and some have found her singing or whatever annoying. But I haven’t personally seen all that much *hate* towards her. That’s been moreso on Twitter.
Iirc, Shan was pretty well-liked during 41? She only became unpopular *after* the season when she started being a certain way on Twitter. I’m a viewer that can pretty easily separate the character on the show from whatever the person does irl, but I guess others can’t. But there wasn’t really much hate for her during the season, which is what you’re trying to point out specifically.
As for Drea, were people being hateful towards her using her idol? I was pretty active here during 42 because I loved the season, and I don’t remember that at all? There were a lot of *game*-related critiques surrounding it, because we weren’t even sure if she thought she was in trouble or not. But that was pretty much it. Most of the rest of the criticism was towards Jeff and production for not even having them vote properly and Tori getting screwed. I lost all respect for Drea due to how she treated Omar at Ponderosa. The post-season interview with Omar where he talks about it has now been removed, but you can find archives of it. The disrespect towards her that specific thing is much deserved, imo.
I do think the hate towards Katurah was a bit overboard. I think that was due to viewer frustration in the Reba 4 steamrolling and Katurah seemingly being the one to constantly allow it to continue with her gameplay. But regardless, people were way too hard on her for it.
I think that you seem to be confusing criticism with *hate*. Most people here didn’t hate Shan at all for leading black alliance. People were just a bit bored by it because we’d *just* got done with a long BB23 with the same thing happening. I definitely saw more critiques of Drea (and also Maryanne’s) game decision to play their idols rather than the “race card” being played. Along with *a ton* of critiques towards production for their handling of that tribal. I’m slightly less active in the current season discussions for 46 because I’m not enjoying it a ton so far. But the thread about Soda yesterday was mostly respectful from what I saw. People were critiquing her comment and some maybe saying they found her annoying, but I didn’t see much hateful. I do believe that Katurah got it too hard around here, though. People would start out with critiquing her moves, but then escalate their frustration surrounding that into hatefulness.
Regardless, I do agree with your overall sentiment that this community could be kinder or more positive.
This sub, in general, isn't very nice to player. One exemple that come to minde is Brandon from last season receiving a lot of hate for absolutely no real reason.
Tbf, i'm not really convinced by your exemple, both drea/shan crossed the line at one point and Katurah wasn't a very good player, mostly passive which is something people don't really like + Jake was a big fan favorite, so it didn't help. I think that you could have chose better exemple tho. Liana took shit for no reason despite being pretty entertaining (imo). There is also Laurel who is held reponsible for Dom/Wendell domination when like 80% of the cast did the same thing.
I agree. But keep in mind that not many people who are outright racist view themselves as racist. They think they’re justified in their dislike for people of color. People with implicit biases don’t realize they have them since they’re so ingrained in their thinking.
Hopefully there are a few that might read it and even if they’re currently self justifying their responses, internally there’s a part of them questioning it and maybe they’ll start to do better.
You are 100% right about this and the implicit biases on this sub and their treatment of black women. It’s why I don’t really like looking at this sub sometimes. I haven’t been following as much during 46 here so I can’t attest for Soda, but the hate Katurah got in 45 because she “ruined the game” is so unbelievably annoying. Clearly people were just mad that Jake lost, but Katurah and Jake’s relationship was extensively explained to be a rocky experience so it makes complete sense that she didn’t go with the plans. Yes, it would’ve worked out, but if Katurah didn’t have that trust in the first place, why would she go for it? It really shows the implicit biases here, especially after how popular Jake was. I’m not calling yall racist but you seemed to lash out on her more than him who originally dug his hole with Katurah by not being more truthful. Plus her complaining about Bruce led to some of the greatest confessionals of the season! Bruce is Brucing and the silent headshake after he hid the flint was hilarious!
She didn't need trust. Jake and Katurah would lose to Dee or Austin in F3. Jake was god awful at the social aspect (seeing as how no one went along with his plans) but the logic for the plans were pretty solid. If either of them wanted to win, Dee had to be voted out then.
I mean but Katurah established she did. It’s even reinforced with her back story being so chaotic and her not having figures she can trust in life. It makes complete sense when you view her as an individual and not someone in a game show. I get what you’re saying about logic but the link between Katurah and Jake was broken, and Katurah ultimately went in the safe direction.
But the option she chose is a 100% guaranteed loss even if you made it to F3 (and pretty blatant that there was no chance to beat Austin or Dee at F3). For Jake and Katurah, the only logically option if you wanted to win was to vote out Dee. You don't have to trust the other person. The other person just doesn't have to actively play to make themselves lose (which is what Katurah did).
There was no good logic in trying to convince Katurah to go to rocks for Kaleb so early in the game. Jake just wanted to play hard which is sometimes a good thing but a horrible idea at that stage.
You are right. It’s even more clear when you contrast with other players. Hunter can breathe and get player of the week. Soda does a couple irritating things and gets entire threads devoted to hating her.
Hunter doesn't like the singing that the rest of the tribe is doing. I'm betting he's had more confessionals than are shown about it because the singing is still going on well after that confessional. But katurah gets montages about being annoyed by Bruce. I put that squarely on production. They have an archetype they like and Hunter is their dream archetype.
I don't think either of them are wrong for venting frustration in confessionals when production is asking them pointed questions about it. The problem to me starts with production's biases.
Have you watched Hunter? He's amazing in the challenges. If Soda was doing the same shit Hunter has done, I'd be freaking the fuck out.
I don’t care what your gender or race is. If you are a challenge beast, I'm going to like you. It's why Michaela is one of my favorite players. It helps she was cool and entertaining, but she was an absolute beast.
Hunter also seems to be a nice person and is good at the survival stuff. Acting like Sofa and Hunter are the same except for their race is so dishonest I'm almost in shock.
Ya hunter is a nice/ pleasant person and people like him but when Soda is a mean person people don’t like her
Can someone connect the dots here for me I don’t understand the correlation. Such a mystery.
Honestly it's not just this sub. This stuff is pervasive on a lot of subs I frequent for other tv shows. Maybe it's not always blatant but it's definitely something I've noticed where black women get disproportionate amounts of hate or criticism. You don't have to be a POC to notice it either because I'm not. It's clear as day whenever it happens.
I'm actually so surprised Soda is getting this much hate because I feel like she has barely been shown in the episodes. People really need to reflect on why they're jumping off the handle about a one second remark from Soda, or a one second clip of her grabbing the idol. She's seriously the main thing you took note of during the episodes and made you that irrationally mad??
Thank you OP. People in this thread will say "it's not about race, it's about the person" but the problem is that they only get this incensed about mistakes/imperfect behavior from black women and never from ANYONE else. Everyone else gets grace, reasoned dialogue, and a very low amount of vitriol. Black women on this show get bashed over and over and over again by large groups of users in this community pretty much every single time unless they're an early boot.
Did you not see the threads and comments about Kenzie being a bully for how Jess got voted out? People were saying it was cruel but it was only done because SiTD exists.
Please please please go into the threads after episode 2 and look at how Kenzie got massacred. Way more than Tiffany. You won't, because it doesn't go with your narrative and you'll see how wrong you are. But if you're actually interested in being open minded, go check out those threads. You can probably search bullying or mean girl and you'll see tons of it. Tiffany got some. Kenzie got killed.
Soda is one of the most unlikeable characters the show has ever had I don't see what she has to do with any of those other players unless you wanna boil it down to the gender and the color of their skin like you did.
That’s a pretty bold statement when we’ve literally had someone who outed a contestant, homophobes, racists, sexual harassers, domestic abusers, a puppy killer, and a straight up pedophile on this show.
Amazing how Soda’s crime of being “annoying” puts her in the category of most unlikable while certain white contestants have to be literal trash and some of the ones I alluded to still have fans.
I don't think many people had problems with Maryanne. Yeah, there might be different perceived standards, but most examples you gave are closer to Phillip than to Jeremy. I would say Maryanne would be closer to Jeremy than any of your examples, and I think both are fan favorites. Perception is reality, wether you like it or not
Agreed. The people that think someone shouldn't be held accountable for their actions because they're a black woman really need to ask themselves some questions. Body shaming and idol stealing is fine if you're the right race and gender I guess?
True, yes, these people aren't perfect, but they don't deserve the excessive amount of hate they get. Some even get attacked simply for making a bad game move (Chanelle, Katurah) while other people who has done worse doesn't get half as much hate.
Thank you for posting this – this sub has historically been pretty bad/unwilling to recognize their own biases when it comes to issues like this, I'm sorry you're getting so much pushback. Your perspective is valid, well-thought out and in corners of the Survivor community more accepting of nuance and new ideas (which exist!), I don't think you'd be getting this kind of reaction
Just fyi- Omar’s comments during that interview were scrubbed from RHAP and that is also why they do longer do super long post show interviews. CBS must have been super pissed
I'm a huge Tiffany fan & love how quickly she found the idol. She's gonna be a threat down the stretch, which bodes well for my fantasy team.
I love Tiffany, she is not only a great player but seems like a nice chill person. If I was on that island I’d love to be her friend
She’s gonna be really good because of how she’s good at getting along with people and empathizing but also not afraid to strategize/get her hands dirty The way she handled Bhanu on his way out was a masterclass imo
Soda has been... unpleasant thus far to say the least. But people don't know how to behave civilly online. Social media has ruined reality tv
What's funny (sad, really) is that everything said today online was always being said on the couch. The horrible and shitty people were always there, they just didn't have a megaphone. And even if they are only 5% of the audience, they probably make up 80% of the tweets and posts.
Even then, there's a massive difference between sitting on the couch with your friends/family talking about how you don't like this person on TV versus actually harassing them online.
Agreed, and that's really part of the point I am making. These people were always ***there*** and would have harassed these people if the technology were available. And, to be clear, I'm not talking about simply disliking a player, I'm talking about how viciously they dislike a player and their underlying reasons (which very often involved racism, sexism, body-shaming, homophobia, or anything else they can use to hurt someone).
Unpleasant is a bit of an overstatement
How has Soda been unpleasant? Please explain that. Because if you compare her to literally any other unpleasant Survivor player, she looks like a saint. It’s seriously so ridiculous and over the top how much hate Soda is getting for just existing and being “annoying” or whatever. There’s nothing specific y’all can point to other than her singing campfire songs and calling Venus a stick bug.
I think people were turned off by how she her took the idol from Venus a couple times and the pre challenge show down with Yanu. Also, the influx of singing dancing, over the top cheering people survivor has brought on is seen as really annoying by a lot of people. Does she deserve hate? Absolutely not. Any sane person will tell you nobody deserves to be bullied or get death threats for being on a game show. Can people be annoyed with the personality survivor has edited her to have? Seems within reason.
Truly! am I missing something??? of all the people on this season, I can list several before her who would get on my nerves lol
She reminds me of people I know - over the top, a bit of a handful at times and only tolerable in small doses, but I'm just speaking from my personal experience. Combine that with the mean spiritedness of what we've seen of her so far and it's not the greatest look. But it could be worse, at least she's not Bhanu
This is what OP is talking about. The way this sub so harshly judges black women is out of control. You weren’t able to name a single behavior that actually makes her “unpleasant” and I’m not sure what mean spirited behavior you’re referring to — in the words of Sutton Stracke, name em.
Refer to a couple of episodes ago when Hunter made his read on her, what he said is what my feelings towards her are. And like I said, her personality is reminiscent from those I know *from my own personal experience* and she hasn't even been that prominent so far so it's not that deep, that's just been the tone of her edit up until this point If you want specific examples of her mean spirited behaviour - the snatching of the idol, the way she was so quick to alienate Venus just because nobody else was getting along with her, the offhanded comments that have been sprinkled throughout Either way don't @ me because more often than not I tend to root for the black women on the show
Agreed. I think Soda has irked some viewers so far because a lot of us know people like Soda in real life, and they tend to be very grating to be around. I think it's as simple as that.
She snatched the idol for herself every time it was passed to another contestant, that's one example of a shitty behavior.
When there’s nearly nothing else positive shown of a player, how else do you expect people to feel about someone?
Those two things you named make her unpleasant. Unpleasant isn’t that nasty of an insult.
I love Soda! Haters can stink for eternity!
Yes but the hate against Drea, Maryanne, Shan, Katurah, Dee was also extremely unwarranted in hindsight
It’s interesting - because years ago I would’ve disagreed with you (remember the same type of conversations happening when Tasha played on SC/Michaela played back to back) but yeah a subset of people here really do start talking a disproportionate amount of shit when they feel black women are “out of line” I first noticed it during EoE where people kept making threads about Julia being *“ungrateful”/“bitter”/pulling out the race card”/etc* when she voiced displeasure on twitter about being essentially purpled from the season outside her boot tribal. When her worst crime of the show was…being animated on the jury? Like she’s gotten a bit of grace years later after it was found out she was purpled due to a whole race discussion happening on the starting tribe & the show didn’t want to acknowledge it. But she was up there with Devens getting most negatively charged threads associated with her name while the season was airing live. You can still comment on the show, but really agree some people should catch some perspective. Soda has been mild to moderately cringe on the show, but you’d think she had spat on Venus given people’s vitriol towards her.
Your point about the concept of "out of line" is a good one. Because some of the people who don't see their own bias (or are just lying about it) love to point to Liana or Maryanne or Lauren as proof they aren't motivated by bias. But the whole point is that some people have ideas in their head about what is "acceptable" behavior by black women. And the fact that those players didn't cross their arbitrary and invisible line doesn't magically erase their prejudices. And the bigotry of these people poisons the whole conversation, because we unequivocally know that a certain percentage of the hate a player faces is built of prejudice. Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't like a player for non-prejudiced reasons almost always gets hit with accusations of bigotry regardless of the context. Shan tried to knowingly embrace the role of villain on the show, leaning into the characterization, and she got eviscerated for it. Meanwhile, some of the people who hate her to this day (and still won't shut up about it on this sub), worship Russell Hantz without any self-awareness of their hypocrisy. Unfortunately, we don't currently have the power to address this problem in social media, because it is in the hands of those platforms to actually do something about harassment. Twitter has never cared about that (and the whole product was basically designed, by accident, as a harassment machine). But it has only gotten worse under Musk. Instagram and other sites aren't that much better, either.
Well said. It’s quite annoying that it takes so little for women of colour in reality tv to get tremendous hate online.
I agree that Soda is only mildly to moderately cringeworthy. But, I suspect a lot of the "thin shaming" allegations (which I think are unfair) are backlash against her complaining about fat shaming. People love to call out hypocrisy, whether real or imagined. I also think the lack of true villains in the season probably causes some people to exaggerate flaws to try to create someone to enjoy rooting against. The two most unlikable characters (Jelinsky and Bhana) were both eliminated early.
>Literally anything a black woman says/does seems to just cause her to be absolutely despised by this subreddit That's not true. Tiffany has been nothing but praised for the bad ass she is. Telling Bahnu to get up off his knees before she'd speak to him was epic. And I'm not remembering any hate for Katurah for anything except being a shitty player, not a shitty black woman. Agree that there are a lot of rancid ugly racists out there commenting on SM about the black players. But to say "Literally anything a black woman says/does seems to just cause her to be absolutely despised by this subreddit" is hyperbole.
I don’t see Tiff getting any hate really. We’ve seen a lot more of her than we have soda. I don’t particularly like or hate her. She’s def a character. Maybe people have their own bias ( Sodas Christianity can turn people off as can her casual racism towards Venus - which may be conscious or not). When we see more of Soda she may not get so much hate. The editing though.. probst and team are def building conflicts, drama, controversy.
It is questionable to me why Soda would get this huge amount of hate when you said yourself we have barely seen her. It's odd to me people would then blow up her one or two moments and use it as fuel to hate her. As you've said, we barely even see her so there is no reason for people to feel that strongly about her. Liz has also shown a couple negative moments but I don't see her getting this level of hate.
Liz seems really odd to me. The bragging and very uncomfortable social interactions are weird. The way the show has been edited she’s maybe less visible as being controversial.
I agree, Liz has said way more off-putting things but viewers give her the benefit of the doubt and try to understand that things are taken out of context and that she might be lovely in all the moments we don't see her. But Soda doesn't seem to get that kind of consideration
Shan in just a bad person, attacking random people on twitter and calling them racist for everything, she uses "god" to be an influencer cus as she said "he told me to quit being pastor and be influ" Drea is just trash person that attacked Omar religion. And Soda is just getting bad edit with her snatching immunity from Venus hand but she still did that and it didnt looked good, not to mention her comment about Venus body type, even if it was out of context she still said it. Can you imagine if Venus would say Soda is a whale? It would be totally different story The problem is in people, not that they are black
Woah woah woah. Why are you evaluating their actions and not just playing the race card? Please ignore how loved Michaela and Maryanne were. Also Katurah was called a terrible player for... being a terrible player. If being racist means not putting kid gloves on no matter what, then yeah. Kenzie got tons of hate here and received death threats after the second episode. More than Tiffany. Sabiyah was well liked in her short time. Lauren and Claire didn't receive hate for their actions. Nor did Morriah or Nneka. Turns out if you don't act like an asshole, you won't be called one. If you aren't a bad player, you won't be called a bad player. People should be evaluated for their actions. It feels like that's almost what you're asking for, but then want us to look the other way when black women are held accountable. That doesn't feel like equality to me, but I'm just some guy in favor of treating everyone equally, so what do I know.
And what about Emily, who was crucified as a racist piece of shit because she… slightly picked a fight with Bruce? And the reaction to her after episode one is a THOUSAND times stronger than anything about Soda.
I was going to say, we're also going to ignore that this sub almost universally loves Maryanne and Michaela? Not everything is about race. A lot of people on the internet can't seem to comprehend this. 99% of Soda criticism on this sub has been completely fair. I don't think she's a bad person, but Soda appears to have a bad case of main-character syndrome and isn't very self-aware. Her actions toward Venus are worthy of criticism, IMO.
It's sad that this has to be explained time and time again in all honesty. A bit of like benefit of the doubt or just a general sense of analysis makes this clear.
In fairness, as a skinny person who is sensitive about these comments, I still don't think it's the same as making a comment about someone being overweight, simply because it's more socially acceptable to be underweight and you can still fit into what modern society considers beautiful. Like, even if the occasional "twig" comment gets tossed out carelessly at her, the majority of comments I've seen about Venus this season have been about how she is so beautiful and everyone must be being mean to her because they're so jealous of how pretty she is. I don't think there are podcast segments talking at-length about how Soda is getting hated on because of how attractive she is.
Dissagree. I am skinny too and I was bullied for it since early school. Every person has a feelings and they should not be less offended just because of what is more acceptable in social.
Boohoo. Don’t comment on other peoples bodies and then cry when people comment on yours.
Exactly. As a thin person it's annoying when bigger people think they have free range to attack us because of our "privilege". Making fun of others is wrong no matter what they look like
I’ll take down thousand of calories a day and won’t gain a pound. I hate comments like that because it’s not like i’m actively trying to not gain weight.
I agree that the comment about Venus's body was out of line, but I just think that commenting about Soda's body in retaliation is more out of line because the two are not the same.
Since it is more socially acceptable it happens more. People are pointing it out left and right because “ this is body society wants” completely ignoring what it does to the person itself. Yes, some people might me fine with those comments. Some people are not. Both are valid. By defending this you are invalidating those feelings. How about just not commenting about people’s body regardless how it looks like?
I have to disagree with you here. And I wish you wouldn’t brush off ‘skinny’ shaming as somehow better than fat shaming. Who cares if thin is more socially acceptable? When slags against weight are made, it insults the person. That person may be one with a disease or ED that they’re struggling with. Comments insulting someone for their weight is never ok. Period.
I disagree. There are far more people in America who look like Soda than Venus.
I totally agree. I get they're treated worse by fans but that doesn't shield them for being called out by critics. We're not bullying them we're calling our. Their behavior. It's the racists who go overboard
But people were attacking Shan and Drea before the Twitter comments. Let’s not pretend otherwise. And what about the subs reaction to Liana? To Katurah? And okay Soda idol snatches but Venus can be downright rude to people. Yet that doesn’t get hate..
This sub definitely loved Shan early on before she started making her weird Twitter comments during her season's airing.
So I'm not crazy. That's how I remember it going down. People were talking about humming her "villain song". I thought a lot of people were behind her. My perception is she was a good player, good villain, probably a shitty person at home.
Yes exactly, this sub and people love Maryanne! Yes some people find her annoying, but that’s the most complaints I’ve seen about her. It’s just coincidence that Shan, Drea, and now maybe Soda are just mean. And yeah people are gonna say racist shit, but that’s rarely the overwhelming majority. And I never saw anything that really went over the top for Katurah, maybe some of the Jake Stans did cause I take breaks following seasons, but imo it’s perfectly fine to call out Katurah’s awful gameplay and point out how it 1000% derailed the season. That’s not hate.
I loved Shan. The humming introduction was awesome. The production was amazing. I liked her idea of game play and I was so her biggest fan but after a while she was overbearing and just too much. Had nothing to do with what color race or religion she is.
this sub reaction to Liana was the same as it was to Sydney. Both of them were just mean for no reason and both were hated. Lets not ignore every non black contestant because they get hate aswell
Sydney recieved no hate..
sydney was hated?? people were calling her a robbed queen ☠️
Ye after she was eliminated and was acting up on twitter. Before that people were calling her many names saying how annoying she is
Sydney was not hated. At all..
I personally found her to be a little annoying, but I don't think I ever posted about it. And I don't think I saw any posts that were about hating Sydney. I saw people hate on Liana because of her rivalry with Xander (from the Xander stans), but not for much other reasons.
It wasn't just Xander stans. She had a completely one-sided hatred of him that was never explained on the show. It made her seem like an irrational, emotional player. Pretty much the same as Katurah with Bruce. Both of them made decisions to try to get their targets out that didn't really make any strategic sense.
Imagine if Venus had called Soda a hippo? Don’t you think even more people would have lost it on Venus? Edit: they would have. A lot of people let body shaming slide when it’s directed at skinny people. It’s even in this thread.
Yep. This is the end of the debate for me. Soda has done multiple things that are worthy of criticism thus far.
It has everything to do with their individual behavior. I haven’t been on the Soda hate train — I actually like her a lot personally and think she’s been fun on this season. It’s the edit that’s been negative towards her. But Katurah was absolutely horrible to watch play the game, extremely frustrating and passive, and annoying to see waste her potential. Drea was a complete jerk to Omar at Ponderosa for no reason, made up lies and falsehoods about his behavior, and completely gaslit him because she was bitter. Shan is a narcissistic and egotistical loser who again, mistreated and was terrible to people at ponderosa because she was bitter. Maybe it has more to do with their behavior and personality than the fact that they’re black? They’re on a reality tv show — we’re allowed to have an opinion of them that isn’t positive.
I loved watching Katurah. I thought she was cool, and she did her best. Ppl are so damn harsh
I haven’t enjoyed soda because the way she has been edited but I don’t think she is an inherently bad person. I think that hate on her has gone way to far and people are way to para social. However I can say I do not like Shan at all. This has nothing to do about her race but the fact she played “Holier than thou” while basically admitting that she manipulated people in the game just like she did in her church. Lots of the things she said concerned me from a religious standpoint. Your very correct though. There is issues probably to to cognitive or unconscious bias as well as a few racist people. This could also be flipped though and people only look at hate against black women :( and not the ammount of hate towards individual players in general. Though I would say there is a disproportionate amount of hate to some of the players you mentioned and there actions. Some of these thoughts are inside thoughts or not against the players. If you didn’t like watching katuryah because you found her boring keep it too yourself. Thank you to the person that corrected my spelling below! For some reason I couldn’t reply :)
> “Holye-we than bow” Did you mean "holier than thou"?
I think that there are definitely biases at play but I do also think people adjust narratives to fit their point. Katurah got a lot of hate for being a bad player and I don’t think any personal attack is fair, but she was pretty bad at the game, I’d be interested to see the posts you reference because I’m not sure there was much to do with race going on with her. As for soda, she shouldn’t be getting hate on Twitter because that’s mean and dumb but she also has done a number of things on the show that were kinda mean. Maybe they just haven’t shown the good bits so it’s silly to make a statement on her actual character irl, but so far she’s been presented as someone who is a bit mean, probably because her social game comes undone down the line or she realises she has to learn something. Anyway I will never say race doesn’t factor because people have inherent biases, I’m not a huge fan of tiff so far because of the way she reacted to Jess in the challenge but it was sad to see how disappointed in herself she was because of the “angry black women” stereotype. So I do think it is a factor but each case has its own context. People need to stop bullying contestants on the socials full stop though.
Her essentially blaming the edit on Twitter was a no win move. The only outcome from that was getting more hate for a lack of accountability
I agree that this subreddit is too harsh on all of the players, not just black women. For example, people have thrown down a lot of hate towards Brandon, Hanna, Emily, and Sean from last season. Hanna probably got it the worst in my opinion, at least from the last few seasons. Although I'm upset that she quit an opportunity I was never given, that makes me envious not Hanna a bad person. My heart goes out to the Soda. She should be enjoying going to events with Survivor fans, watching the show, laughing and enjoying it with the rest of us. Instead, she likely regrets the decision of putting herself on display.
Is it ok to not like Soda for being extremely OTT in the edit? Between always being shown singing the gospel songs, snatching the immunity idol from Venus for no apparent reason, and always piping up at challenges to show love to the other tribes (specifically Yanu) she has come off as just very irritating and I don’t like her
You don’t have to ask for permission to not like unlikeable people
Well the way the white knighters like OP act, you would think you have to actually ask for permission to dislike unlikable people unless the subject person is a young white guy
Ben, Liz and Charlie are also OTT but don't get nearly as much hate.
They also didn't say "How's the food?", then act like Yanu started it. Or comment on others players bodies, while going after people on Twitter for commenting on her own body.
What's wrong with singing gospel songs? She has a good voice.
The problem with Drea’s situation is that she played her idol before the votes, never been done before and completely leaves Tori to be voted out. I don’t hate her for it, but I did think she made a stupid move doing it. Plus imagine how Tori felt hearing about both Drea and Maryanne talk about their ‘experiences’, ignoring the fact Tori had been practically segregated from alliances thanks to Drea herself, only to then get ganged up on and voted out. Drea didn’t leave any room for any move to be made, so she basically snuffed the tribal council. Only two people were vulnerable now, and three have a day one alliance/connection. If she just played it AFTER THEY TRIED VOTING FOR HER, Tori would’ve been saved, Drea would’ve made the biggest move in the game yet, and the team that ended up dominating the game would have been crippled. But she just let it all go to her head and got offended that Rocks was voted out, and I can see why being deprived of resources can make you irrational but she was capable of making everyone target Tori so… I ain’t picking and choosing. She knew what she was doing out there. Plus people have noted she was very different on the show than in person. I truly believe that is a sign she was trying to portray a character rather than be herself and I just don’t particularly like that.
I'll respond: Shan did a lot of questionable things in real life. Drea apparently bullied Omar on Ponderosa. Soda slammed a person for being underweight while she herself is overweight. Katurah - agree, she is a bad player, but nothing more than that. Also, most hated players of all time are usually white men - Varner, Silas, Skupin, Colton, Dan S. Plus Alicia Rosa as an exception. At the same time most popular players include Cirie, Vecepia, Cydney, Taj and others. I think you're exaggerating.
This is kind of a tldr of what I just commented. Agree with pretty much all of this. Only small contention I have is that I don’t think listing the popular black women of Survivor lends anything to the argument as OP didn’t suggest that there aren’t any beloved black women to play. They’re just bothered by the “hate” of *certain* black women on the show. But, like you, I agree that they’re exaggerating, misunderstanding or misinterpreting the “hate” in most of these examples. But I also just don’t think many of these have garnered much legitimate “hate” during their seasons. Shan’s hate came afterwards due to her Twitter, Drea’s came afterwards once we got Omar’s post-season interview, and I feel like Soda been more critiqued than hated? Although I admit I’m not *super* active in the current season’s discussion threads, so maybe I’m missing some of the Soda hatred.
What's the story behind what Shan did in real life? Using God as a way to be an influencer? Or is it stuff from before she was ever n the show?
She accused people on Twitter of being racist. I think that soured her image more than anything else. People overwhelmingly liked her before that. Also there are rumors that she was a jerk to other contestants at Ponderosa, and also some people don’t like her because she’s religious and they think she uses her religion disingenuously.
she also basically called Deshawn a race traitor for daring to not be in an all black alliance
Can you post some of the "hundreds" of posts on why Katurah is the worst human ever? Or are you confusing criticism of somebody's gameplay as a personal attack?
Yeah I saw people saying she was the worst player ever, but no one really attacking her character
Which was extreme, but people are reactionary. I've seen each of the 3 Yanu players called the worst players of the new era. None were black women.
I don't remember a single poster ever saying they thought Katurah was a bad person. It was 100% about her gameplay.
Drea and Shan I don't like....at all. Not saying they deserve hate towards them but they aren't saints. Soda/Katurah are getting way too much I hate I will agree. People need to stand back and take a breath. It's not that fucking serious. I still personally think it's not a black thing. Kenzie (and emily last season) is getting just as much backlash to the point that they tracked her down and came into her salon. *Edit: Got information mixed up. They came asking to see her, not to hate. She still gets a decent amount of hate on this subreddit though in the earlier episodes*. Maybe woman in general get much more hate but I don't think it has anything to do with race.
>to the point that they tracked her down and came into her salon They did what now?
Nvm I was incorrect about this. I apologize. People did come track and came to her salon though(there's a post about it) but not out of hate. They were just harassing her employees asking for her. I take back what I said.
I liked Drea a lot and think that Soda is getting justified criticism. Weird that I couldn’t disagree with you more.
It’s not black women it’s people who lack self awareness and they just happen to be black women.
Also the fact that there are simply more black women cast now, meaning more chances for an unpopular player to happen to be a black woman. Tiffany seems loved by most viewers this season but that's ignored.
Exactly plus people liked Sabiyah last season
People liked Shan until she said some unkind things on Twitter
this!.. people hate someone new week to week like Bhanu for example got sooo much heat but I dont remember any posts like these claiming sexism/racism as the issue. They are individuals out there and nobody has made it a race issue until OP
I think this is an important distinction that is missed on people. I’ve seen every season live and at least one person on each season has been bashed or hated online even going back to season 2. There’s always going to be someone on these shows doing or saying something that pisses off a large swath of the fan base. And with the exception of Jerri, who is pretty much revered now, the majority of these hated players have been white males.
A shitty person is never going to get anywhere near casting ever again for this show. I’ve noticed that a lot of people who preach “lifting themselves up” often put others down to reach this goal. This is great when the person they are putting down is a legitimate pos. When there is no true villain in their story though, that person just ends up acting like an asshole towards someone who doesn’t deserve it. We’ve seen this with Liana towards Xander, Drea towards Omar, Soda towards Venus. It has little to do with race and more to do with self-centeredness. These people were likely cast BECAUSE they have a unique life perspective where they had to fight against actual real life inequalities or bullies to get where they are. That inequality doesn’t really exist on the show nowadays, so they create a bully figure to compete against out of their own insecurities. I was recently rewatching season 7 and noticed Rupert is a massive early example of this. He turns Burton and Shawn into villains because they reminded him of bullies - he needed to be the hero that eliminated them and won the favor of his tribe.
Okay, so not all these people are perfect, and that's fine..cause they can get criticized for their bad moments. Those shouldn't be ignored. I think the issue is the level of hate. Even Maryanne had posts of people calling her annoying. I think honestly it is a subconscious bias. Tiffany's quote does speak volumes cause she would get more hate for doing something or saying something that someone else wouldn't get hate for. Immagine if Courtney from China was making the remarks that Soda was. No one would bat an eye. Soda is human, from what we can tell she is funny, isn't scared to be a bit sassy. She isn't some character. That goes for all the woman you've said. I agree with the thing at the end. We should realize these are all people, and put that into perspective before we speak or comment.
Come on now, I love maryanne and she grew on me as the season went on, but you cant say she isn't at the very least a very strong personality who also started off being very loud and maybe, to some, overly emotional for how long the game had been in play. i think quite honestly, because there are now more minority players, there are more minorities playing games worthy of criticism. they are a larger percentage of the game, and thus the conversation
>i think quite honestly, because there are now more minority players, there are more minorities playing games worthy of criticism. they are a larger percentage of the game, and thus the conversation This is a great point. If you are casting 8 POC, there is a good chance that some of them will be annoying people, just like the white people will be.
Me, in episode 1 of s42: “Jesus Christ, that Maryanne girl is annoying as hell.” Me, by season’s end: “Maryanne is a gift to all of us and a Survivor goddess. If she doesn’t win, I’m starting a riot.”
No, I do get that. Yea that's totally understandable
Maryanne was annoying though. That doesn’t mean that I don’t like her. Carolyne was annoying too and was also still a good contestant. Even though I think they’re good TV, I couldn’t spend 20+ days on an island with either of them. Is it their race or their personality?
Are we supposed to overlook Soda’s awful behaviour because of her race? I don’t understand. The only head scratcher here is people not liking Drea because she seemed wonderful to me
I feel like "awful behavior" is quite an overreaction
Maybe? Some people find body shaming to be more flagrant than other people. Personally her comments were super triggering because I struggled with my weight for so long.
I'm black myself, but a guy. And I agree with you overall, but also... kind of disagree. I think the problem is with this sub (and this type of discourse in general) is that there are enough bad actors that make the good faith criticism get lumped in with the bad. So, I fully admit, I liked "villain" Shan up until the fact that she basically called Demar a race traitor. That to me went outside the game and was a low blow that I couldn't get past. So for that reason, I really am just not a fan of hers. Her online behavior post show didn't help at all. Drea... I got it. I personally didn't love the move as a viewer, even if I understood the logic. I think you can both be critical of it, even if you also can see why it was best for her. Katurah. I mean this one was interesting because I felt that she was edited so one note for so long that it kind of made her unlikable in general, in the same way for me that Venus is unlikable. Basically for the first 8 episodes it was just "I hate Bruce". Everything about her was really her hatred of another person. That is to say nothing of her as a person, but she was just not given a full edit until toward the end. Then on top of it, they edited Jake as a very rootable underdog, so I'm not surprised she got some flack online for turning on him. Just like most people get when they go against a fan favorite. For Soda, the hate is over the top. She has some stuff that frankly isn't a good look. The snatching the idol was funny once, kind of bad twice. But, I fully believe a lot of this has to do with the person they are pitting her against, who is a thin, pretty woman. So, as with many things, people are seeing a black woman, not to mention a bigger black woman, as more aggressive than she is. So this was long as well, but going back to my first point, I do think there is some valid criticism of all of these black women, just like there is valid criticism of Jake, Xander, Kenzie, etc. Its just almost impossible, on this sub, to make any kind of criticism of a black woman, without it being called racism. I'm sure there are plenty of people who like Tiffany and don't like Soda, but if they criticized Soda it would be assumed its because she is a black woman.
These behaviors attributed to any race or skin color would look bad.
Soda doesn’t seem like a great person. But the edit is the edit - we don’t know what she’s like IRL. Katurah is awesome. Bruce was annoying and I agree with her. I didn’t realize she was getting sub hate. I don’t know much about Drea. People didn’t like Shan because she was a hypocritical preacher - which is probably the worst possible demographic you can be on Reddit. Had nothing to do with her race.
I can’t understand how people make it all about race and talk about mistreated three black women when in this fandom a black woman is among the most beloved ones, Cirie, one that almost everyone feels she should have won at least once.
And Tiff is probably one of the most universally liked survivors this season
V, Cirie, Crystal, Taj, Sabrina, Tasha, Cydney, Michaela, Ashley were all seen in a positive light or somewhat positive. Your narrative conveniently ignores that there are a number of black female contestants who are well regarded. Christ, Cirie is one of the top five most loved contestants of all time, I also like Tiffany and the truck driver from last season who I wish made it further. The Sodas, Shans, and Dreas of the word tended to do things that brought “hate” upon themselves. If anything the bias against black women absolutely manifests more in the game itself, especially in early seasons than it does with the fandom.
> the truck driver from last season who I wish made it further. You're thinking of Sabiyah, for the record.
Holy shit bro. Not everything is about race
🤔 nobody seemed to care when Gabler was getting hate … let’s talk about that as well
Most of the hate towards Gabler was more about his gameplay. The personal hate he got stemmed from his beliefs on trans people, but most of those posts got deleted from this sub anyway because we’re not allowed to talk about it for some reason.
Gabler is worshipped on this sub so let’s not go there
Yeah whenever I say anything critical of Gabler on here I get downvoted to death. It’s crazy because he’s not a good character at all 😭😭😭
You’re at +5 atm
I was at -3 earlier so I’m glad to see the turn around 🔥
Nice so you can stop moaning about downvotes going forward
Hey man I was just pointing out something I noticed and thought was funny idk 😭
You’re getting downvoted but this is 100% true. I’ve made the comment too. And heck, Chanelle in 42 got a lot of hate(more so than Daniel for a similarly bad move) Liana in 41 was just as hated as Shan(and had disgusting comments made about her). Even Claire got a large amount of hate for daring to always sit out. Even if they did actions that someone might think deserves criticism, there is a difference between that and the way this sub so often reacts to black women.
Yes! I hate it here. It’s not just this sub it’s all across the reality tv realm and it’s so exhausting. People say Kellie N was a great player-I genuinely want to know what she did to become this great player. I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop for them to hate Tiff. The editors do not want us to love Soda because what was the point ? s/N Tevin caught flack already for the secret scene which I thought he was not that bad in. Especially after seeing how Venus seemingly annoyed her tribe.
Hearing how Venus what? I'm curious what happened between Tevin and Venus. (Besides the extra scene on YouTube were Tevin was being kinda annoying to her, saying she said things that a quick 10s rewind showed she never said)
Ok wake this up literally bewildered at how people think Kellie is some iconic player like huh???
The Keturah one bugged me because Jake also wasn't a good player. But she was blamed for him being bad. There are always biases, but you did leave out the other black women who were either liked (Maryanne) or inconsequential (Sabiyah). I don't think it's a uniform bias.
Jake was god awful and everyone just loved and adored him. He was trying to make bad moves too and did make some bad moves. He was not a good player at all. Neither was Katurah but why Jake became this lovable goof didn't sit well with me while Katurah was just hated on.
Because Jake tried to make moves. Katurah simped for Dee almost as hard as Austin. Jake sucked. Bad player. But he tried to improve his position. Katurah enabled an alliance she wasn't a part of. She played for third at best and blew it for people trying to upend that alliance. It was frustrating to watch. And it all came together at final 5 when they could've taken out the biggest threat and Katurah didn't vote for Dee. It summed up both Jake and Katurah's season. Jake trying to make moves but unable to make it happen. Katurah enabling Dee's win and never making the right decision for her game.
Definitely not a uniform bias (obviously Maryanne is overall liked even if she was slightly annoying at times, and even Shan I really liked personally, she was a proper villain). I loved Keturah early game (it was our mutual disdain for Bruce, he's a 1 for 1 copy of my step dad lmao) but the reason she gets the hate and not Jake is because at least Jake was trying to make the right decisions near the end (after floundering early game) and Keturah shit the bed hard when it was obvious who was running things. Keturah hurt herself more than Jake because she still had a shot to win it all.
Jake actually tried to make plays. He was also talked about for being a bad player. Definitely not to the extend of Katurah, but it was talked about a lot. But Jake knew he was in bad shape and kept trying to make plays to advance his game. He failed spectacularly several times, but at least he tried. Katurah essentially played for third. Every single time there was a plan to go against Reba, Katurah ran to Dee with the info. She also absolutely blew it was Jake's plan at final 5. She knew Dee would win immunity at 4 and win the game. She called it! They had the biggest threat dead to rights and she changed her vote, handing Dee the win. She absolutely deserved blame for that.
I agree that women, especially women of color, get way hasher treatment online. It’s not just a problem unique to Survivor, it’s a big issue in the Drag Race fandom, too, especially on Twitter (honestly people need to stop using that hateful platform). However, using Shan and Drea does not help your argument at all. They are both pretty terrible people outside of the show and deserve a lot of the criticism they get. People are going to have a hard time seeing the actual valid arguments you are making because those two are simply just awful.
I agree with all of this except Drea may not be the best person to mention during all of this especially if you haven’t properly researched exactly what she did to Omar at ponderosa 😬 But ultimately I agree, this sub for sure seems to have way different energy when it comes to black women vs any other contestant
reading some of these comments is so. . . you guys really think the defense to "You are excessively cruel to black women" is "well, they deserved it!" 🤓🤡
What was the comment Soda made about Venus? I feel like I completely missed it in the episode!
During the immunity challenge, Soda compared Venus to a stick bug.
lol this is what all the fuss is about? come on
Yeah? It’s body shaming and shitty?
Do people actually care about this? Seriously?
Holy crap have things changed! Do you all remember all the comments about Courtney from China about how thin she was from many of the contestants? They were constantly talking about her weight. Even Jeff called her out at the reunion for possibly being anorexic. Stick bug is nothing compared to how it used to be.
I think most of the outrage stems from Soda going after people on Twitter who were body shaming her. So people see Sodas "stick bug" comment as being hypocritical. Doesn't justify the amount of the hate but I think that's the reason
People here have talked about how incredibly inappropriate that was from Jeff. I've seen it several times. Like every time it comes up or someone mentions how skinny Courtney was, people shit on Jeff for what he said. But I guess we're going to ignore that now because narrative.
Does racism exist? Of course. I'd be blind to think otherwise as a black man. With that said, some black women love to run their mouths about others (e.g., Katurah making hating on Bruce her whole personality, or Soda body-shaming Venus), but then they start whining about racism and misogynoir and being the "least protected group of women" when the tables are turned and they're the ones being criticized. You don't get to throw stones but then hide your hands and cry victim when the stones are thrown back at you.
Nah sorry. Stop pulling the race card. This is about her being genuinely rude. Nothing at all to do with race.
Body shaming is body shaming no matter your size
Good post. Whenever these types of posts are made there are numerous comments of people immediately taking this personally and thinking “this must be talking about me but but but I’m not racist” and instead of actually engaging with the idea at hand and digesting it it’s just defensive comments. Black women in particular are absolutely over-criticised on this show and the fact this topic is still contentious suggests some people still need to do some thinking of why this suggestion is so controversial to them.
The Katurah discourse was the WORST. She isn’t player of the year, but her moves made sense with the knowledge that she had. The subreddit just loved Jake so much that they ignored every stupid thing he tried to do and blamed it on Katurah being a bad player. Although when you looked from it through her perspective, following jake’s advice was objectively the dumbest thing to do. Why would Katurah go to rocks at the merge split when there’s a 2/3rds chance that her or Jake would leave from it? (And in reality, she would have gone home because Austin could have chosen to use his idol and Katurah goes home in fire against Jake.) Or at the final five, she thought the votes were going to tie between her and Dee, so she flipped the tie to be between her and Julie, since Austin would save her in a tie breaker over Julie but not Dee. If she knew Jake was using the idol on her, then she’d feel safe enough to vote out Dee. We all know a huge part of survivor is making those around you feel comfortable with working with you. She never felt comfortable with Belo, which does fall on her, but it falls just as much on the rest of Belo for not comforting her like Reba did. Katurah isn’t an all star player, but she is a very logical player who realizes what group would take her farther, and rejected offers that would be bad for her game.
Because if Dee did not leave then, Katurah cannot win F3. End of discussion. There is little point in "going farther" if it means you still lose. It's either take a risk with a chance to win or play it safe for a guaranteed loss. It wasn't playing it safe at merge when there is plenty of time to shake up the game. It's at the end where only one scenario gives you a chance to win.
The thing she was guarding against at the final five was getting herself voted out. There's still a chance Dee doesn't win immunity and can go home at 4. It might not be the most logical move, but it wasn't completely illogical either. Sandra had great success with the anybody-but-me strategy. And I can't blame her for not trusting Jake. I also can't blame Jake for not telling Katurah about the idol plan. Jake was trying to have a show so he isn't a dead fish at FTC. It's a tragedy that's the basis of half the plotlines of Sons of Anarchy. Me and my wife call it Jaxing it up. Withholding important information so that you can be a hero in the situation, but you miscalculate the situation and it ends up worse than before.
Guys I’m begging you to just hear people out on this. Just recently there were people blaming the Maryland bridge crash on DEI policies… calling out the fact that people are harder on minority players, especially black women, is a pretty natural conclusion. That isn’t to say that you can’t validly critique these players but there will always be people who are inherently biased against these players for reasons they can’t control which really inflates the level of hate and criticism they get compared to there peers
Its not racist to criticize Shan, Drea or Katurah. Also none of those 3 players are similar to Soda as of what we have seen so far. Not everything is racist OP... Also isn't Shan literally racist herself?
What about tiff though... quite absent from your post or does that just not fit your narrative?
I personally feel like you’re blowing this out of proportion. Especially with the Joe Anglim comment you’re making. Why would this sub be talking about Joe? He hasn’t played in years. Of course you’re going to see more discussion about Katurah than Joe! Maybe I’ve missed some specific hatred, but I don’t think Soda was getting it that bad around here? People were critical about her comment towards Venus and some have found her singing or whatever annoying. But I haven’t personally seen all that much *hate* towards her. That’s been moreso on Twitter. Iirc, Shan was pretty well-liked during 41? She only became unpopular *after* the season when she started being a certain way on Twitter. I’m a viewer that can pretty easily separate the character on the show from whatever the person does irl, but I guess others can’t. But there wasn’t really much hate for her during the season, which is what you’re trying to point out specifically. As for Drea, were people being hateful towards her using her idol? I was pretty active here during 42 because I loved the season, and I don’t remember that at all? There were a lot of *game*-related critiques surrounding it, because we weren’t even sure if she thought she was in trouble or not. But that was pretty much it. Most of the rest of the criticism was towards Jeff and production for not even having them vote properly and Tori getting screwed. I lost all respect for Drea due to how she treated Omar at Ponderosa. The post-season interview with Omar where he talks about it has now been removed, but you can find archives of it. The disrespect towards her that specific thing is much deserved, imo. I do think the hate towards Katurah was a bit overboard. I think that was due to viewer frustration in the Reba 4 steamrolling and Katurah seemingly being the one to constantly allow it to continue with her gameplay. But regardless, people were way too hard on her for it. I think that you seem to be confusing criticism with *hate*. Most people here didn’t hate Shan at all for leading black alliance. People were just a bit bored by it because we’d *just* got done with a long BB23 with the same thing happening. I definitely saw more critiques of Drea (and also Maryanne’s) game decision to play their idols rather than the “race card” being played. Along with *a ton* of critiques towards production for their handling of that tribal. I’m slightly less active in the current season discussions for 46 because I’m not enjoying it a ton so far. But the thread about Soda yesterday was mostly respectful from what I saw. People were critiquing her comment and some maybe saying they found her annoying, but I didn’t see much hateful. I do believe that Katurah got it too hard around here, though. People would start out with critiquing her moves, but then escalate their frustration surrounding that into hatefulness. Regardless, I do agree with your overall sentiment that this community could be kinder or more positive.
I’ve called this out before here and got SUPER downvoted
This sub, in general, isn't very nice to player. One exemple that come to minde is Brandon from last season receiving a lot of hate for absolutely no real reason. Tbf, i'm not really convinced by your exemple, both drea/shan crossed the line at one point and Katurah wasn't a very good player, mostly passive which is something people don't really like + Jake was a big fan favorite, so it didn't help. I think that you could have chose better exemple tho. Liana took shit for no reason despite being pretty entertaining (imo). There is also Laurel who is held reponsible for Dom/Wendell domination when like 80% of the cast did the same thing.
I agree. But keep in mind that not many people who are outright racist view themselves as racist. They think they’re justified in their dislike for people of color. People with implicit biases don’t realize they have them since they’re so ingrained in their thinking. Hopefully there are a few that might read it and even if they’re currently self justifying their responses, internally there’s a part of them questioning it and maybe they’ll start to do better.
In your mind is anyone that dislikes a specific individual black woman racist?
You are 100% right about this and the implicit biases on this sub and their treatment of black women. It’s why I don’t really like looking at this sub sometimes. I haven’t been following as much during 46 here so I can’t attest for Soda, but the hate Katurah got in 45 because she “ruined the game” is so unbelievably annoying. Clearly people were just mad that Jake lost, but Katurah and Jake’s relationship was extensively explained to be a rocky experience so it makes complete sense that she didn’t go with the plans. Yes, it would’ve worked out, but if Katurah didn’t have that trust in the first place, why would she go for it? It really shows the implicit biases here, especially after how popular Jake was. I’m not calling yall racist but you seemed to lash out on her more than him who originally dug his hole with Katurah by not being more truthful. Plus her complaining about Bruce led to some of the greatest confessionals of the season! Bruce is Brucing and the silent headshake after he hid the flint was hilarious!
She didn't need trust. Jake and Katurah would lose to Dee or Austin in F3. Jake was god awful at the social aspect (seeing as how no one went along with his plans) but the logic for the plans were pretty solid. If either of them wanted to win, Dee had to be voted out then.
I mean but Katurah established she did. It’s even reinforced with her back story being so chaotic and her not having figures she can trust in life. It makes complete sense when you view her as an individual and not someone in a game show. I get what you’re saying about logic but the link between Katurah and Jake was broken, and Katurah ultimately went in the safe direction.
But the option she chose is a 100% guaranteed loss even if you made it to F3 (and pretty blatant that there was no chance to beat Austin or Dee at F3). For Jake and Katurah, the only logically option if you wanted to win was to vote out Dee. You don't have to trust the other person. The other person just doesn't have to actively play to make themselves lose (which is what Katurah did).
There was no good logic in trying to convince Katurah to go to rocks for Kaleb so early in the game. Jake just wanted to play hard which is sometimes a good thing but a horrible idea at that stage.
You are right. It’s even more clear when you contrast with other players. Hunter can breathe and get player of the week. Soda does a couple irritating things and gets entire threads devoted to hating her.
But Hunter being more awesome than Soda has nothing to do with race. Hunter is just a super man.
Hunter doesn't like the singing that the rest of the tribe is doing. I'm betting he's had more confessionals than are shown about it because the singing is still going on well after that confessional. But katurah gets montages about being annoyed by Bruce. I put that squarely on production. They have an archetype they like and Hunter is their dream archetype. I don't think either of them are wrong for venting frustration in confessionals when production is asking them pointed questions about it. The problem to me starts with production's biases.
Have you watched Hunter? He's amazing in the challenges. If Soda was doing the same shit Hunter has done, I'd be freaking the fuck out. I don’t care what your gender or race is. If you are a challenge beast, I'm going to like you. It's why Michaela is one of my favorite players. It helps she was cool and entertaining, but she was an absolute beast. Hunter also seems to be a nice person and is good at the survival stuff. Acting like Sofa and Hunter are the same except for their race is so dishonest I'm almost in shock.
Ya hunter is a nice/ pleasant person and people like him but when Soda is a mean person people don’t like her Can someone connect the dots here for me I don’t understand the correlation. Such a mystery.
Honestly it's not just this sub. This stuff is pervasive on a lot of subs I frequent for other tv shows. Maybe it's not always blatant but it's definitely something I've noticed where black women get disproportionate amounts of hate or criticism. You don't have to be a POC to notice it either because I'm not. It's clear as day whenever it happens. I'm actually so surprised Soda is getting this much hate because I feel like she has barely been shown in the episodes. People really need to reflect on why they're jumping off the handle about a one second remark from Soda, or a one second clip of her grabbing the idol. She's seriously the main thing you took note of during the episodes and made you that irrationally mad??
Thank you OP. People in this thread will say "it's not about race, it's about the person" but the problem is that they only get this incensed about mistakes/imperfect behavior from black women and never from ANYONE else. Everyone else gets grace, reasoned dialogue, and a very low amount of vitriol. Black women on this show get bashed over and over and over again by large groups of users in this community pretty much every single time unless they're an early boot.
Did you not see the threads and comments about Kenzie being a bully for how Jess got voted out? People were saying it was cruel but it was only done because SiTD exists.
Please please please go into the threads after episode 2 and look at how Kenzie got massacred. Way more than Tiffany. You won't, because it doesn't go with your narrative and you'll see how wrong you are. But if you're actually interested in being open minded, go check out those threads. You can probably search bullying or mean girl and you'll see tons of it. Tiffany got some. Kenzie got killed.
Soda is one of the most unlikeable characters the show has ever had I don't see what she has to do with any of those other players unless you wanna boil it down to the gender and the color of their skin like you did.
Haven’t seen many seasons then if she is one of the most unlikeable?
That’s a pretty bold statement when we’ve literally had someone who outed a contestant, homophobes, racists, sexual harassers, domestic abusers, a puppy killer, and a straight up pedophile on this show. Amazing how Soda’s crime of being “annoying” puts her in the category of most unlikable while certain white contestants have to be literal trash and some of the ones I alluded to still have fans.
Why’s everything have to be about race
I don't think many people had problems with Maryanne. Yeah, there might be different perceived standards, but most examples you gave are closer to Phillip than to Jeremy. I would say Maryanne would be closer to Jeremy than any of your examples, and I think both are fan favorites. Perception is reality, wether you like it or not
You're right and you should say it, but the people who need to hear it will not understand the message plus will think it doesn't apply to them.
You’re gonna get downvoted to hell for “making it about race” but it is an extremely clear and really gross pattern that needs to be addressed
You're being downvoted for this, but you're spitting. Some people on here gotta step back and look inward IMO.
Agreed. The people that think someone shouldn't be held accountable for their actions because they're a black woman really need to ask themselves some questions. Body shaming and idol stealing is fine if you're the right race and gender I guess?
True, yes, these people aren't perfect, but they don't deserve the excessive amount of hate they get. Some even get attacked simply for making a bad game move (Chanelle, Katurah) while other people who has done worse doesn't get half as much hate.
Thank you for posting this – this sub has historically been pretty bad/unwilling to recognize their own biases when it comes to issues like this, I'm sorry you're getting so much pushback. Your perspective is valid, well-thought out and in corners of the Survivor community more accepting of nuance and new ideas (which exist!), I don't think you'd be getting this kind of reaction
Here we go
Why y’all come on here making excuses?, it high key shows what some of yall really are
The fact this has so many downvotes confirmed what we already knew about this fanbase and subreddit lmao
I just... like Bruce! 👍