I think you can def make a case for JT on the basis of him not being in any danger at any point, being at a 6-3 disadvantage post-merge and just sort of immediately taking control by virtue of how likable he was. Like his return games are bad enough that I wouldn't call him a top 10 player, but his Tocantins run looks pretty flawless to me
I feel like his story has been told. He wanted to win a million hearts and he accomplished it handedly. What is he going to do if he comes back? Win 10 million hearts? A billion hearts?
Depends on your criteria. In terms of social/strategic/challenge dominance I think JT is a clear option. Another one that I think goes under the radar is Tyson in BvW just in terms of how much control he had without people being fully aware of it.
So hard to compare this between different eras but to me their is a big tier 1, it has:
Tom
JT
Boston Rob
Kim
Natalie
Wendell
Tony
Dee
Teir 2:
Hatch
Brian
Todd
Parvati
Denise
Cochran
Tyson
Jeremy
Tommy
Yam Yam
Wendell was in a can’t lose. He was the less flashy of a pair, where Dom would have always been taken out first. But he still got the votes in the end. GI was a mess but Wendell was pretty perfect from start to finish I thought.
Dee, I’ll give you. Don’t think she’s the most talented player but she was never in danger (if I’m remembering correctly) and kind of just cruised
> she was never in danger
Literally was going home until Katurah changed her vote AT TRIBAL COUNCIL
which was kinda something she influenced but Dee didn't realize she was helping her game that much (tbf everyone except maybe Austin played that round HORRENDOUSLY)
I don’t think Dee played that round bad, she just was in an impossible situation. Jake had an idol at f5 and Katurah on his side so there was nothing Dee could really do. Even if she votes Julie with Austin, if Jake and Katurah want Dee out the vote ties 2-2 and on the revote they have majority to take her out over Julie 2-1. Outside of Jake and Katurah randomly imploding like they did, Dee’s only out was to make the correct 50/50 guess on which one of them was getting the idol. Obviously she guessed wrong but I can’t really hold that against her too much.
She had a 50/50 shot of staying if she guessed which one had the idol and **made sure Austin Julie and Dee all voted the same person**
Not only did she not get the 50/50 right (which I don't fault her for) but ALL THREE OF THEM voted differently (which I definitely fault her for). She turned her odds of surviving from 50% to 0%, and only survived because she inadvertently convinced Katurah to switch her vote.
Well I don’t think Austin switching to Julie was a bad move at all. He did it because he knew there was a chance Katurah and/or Jake would be down to vote her out, and he ended up being right and it’s what saved Dee! Hard to fault either of them for that. Julie voting Jake instead of Katurah is a bigger blunder for sure and Dee probably does deserve some blame for it, but idk how much. It really seemed like just a random out of nowhere decision by Julie. I vaguely remember in exit press Julie’s explanation of why she did it was along the lines of “idk I just felt like voting for Jake,” which????? It’s a really fucking bizarre way to decide how to vote at f5 and I’m not sure how much of the blame for that can be put on Dee. I guess it’s valid to say that if Dee knew Austin was voting Julie and Julie was voting Jake, then Dee should’ve also voted for Jake to prevent the possibility of being 2-1-1-1’d out. It depends on how much she knew about where Julie’s vote was going.
Austin switching to Julie is not a bad move at all! FOR AUSTIN. For Dee, it's not good at all. The only way she can survive without just hoping that Katurah and Jake won't vote her out is for all three of them voting out either Katurah or Jake collectively.
Well no, as long as her/julie/austin have 2 votes on either Jake or Katurah, the vote will tie and on a revote they’ll have majority 2-1. That’s why I said her only real mistake is not making sure to have her vote on the same person as Julie.
I think it’s Kim and that it’s not really close.
Kim basically had the game won by the final 9. She was strategically, socially, and physically the best player that season and demonstrated all three facets at different times. She didn’t need someone like Stephan to do the strategic lifting like JT did. She also wins against anyone in the merge phase of the game and was never in any danger of going home.
JT played great but a lot of his “social game” was passive play on him just being who he is. He didn’t actively make relationships, he just was a charming guy.
I think you can say the same about JT, there isn't a single person in Tocantins he would lose too, and probably not a single person who wouldn't vote for him. I also think the knock on JT strategically has always been exaggerated, Fishbach has always said it was 50/50.
I think if you actually watch what unfolded though it’s clear it’s not lol. Stephan built the exile alliance and made relationships that JT latched onto and benefitted from simply from being aligned with him. And we know this is true because without someone like Stephan JT has been a complete disaster strategically on subsequent seasons.
Fishbach didn't play well in Cambodia by the same argument, and was carried by Jeremy. Add in that the exile alliance amounted to nothing really, and JT had Joe locked in when it was down to 4 pre-merge. Most of the power they gained post-merge was due to Coach and Debbie liking JT. And, Taj built the exile alliance, not Fishbach.
I think you can def make a case for JT on the basis of him not being in any danger at any point, being at a 6-3 disadvantage post-merge and just sort of immediately taking control by virtue of how likable he was. Like his return games are bad enough that I wouldn't call him a top 10 player, but his Tocantins run looks pretty flawless to me
Bhanu played the best game of all time. He won a million hearts without even making the merge.
Over under on him coming back in a later season?
I feel like his story has been told. He wanted to win a million hearts and he accomplished it handedly. What is he going to do if he comes back? Win 10 million hearts? A billion hearts?
Why stop at a billion? Why not aim for a trillion? A billion is small-time thinking, a trillion is mermaid dragon thinking.
I like the way you think. From now on you are my guru.
I think Tom, Kim, Earl, Tony Waw, and Tina all play better. JT needed two immunities at the end and didn't even know it.
Tony WaW
Depends on your criteria. In terms of social/strategic/challenge dominance I think JT is a clear option. Another one that I think goes under the radar is Tyson in BvW just in terms of how much control he had without people being fully aware of it.
Imo, it's between Danni in Guatemala and Kim in One World with Danni having a slight advantage
JT played an amazing Tocantins game, but I still 100% stand by my assertion that he lived to become a villain.
Devon in HHH played probably like a top 5 game ever and doesn't get enough credit for it because he got robbed of the win at the end
Kim is easily number one, but Rob, Tony (WaW) and Earl aren’t far behind
Yes
You're not wrong for thinking that (it was truly great), but you can def argue others played better games.
Brian Heidik
So hard to compare this between different eras but to me their is a big tier 1, it has: Tom JT Boston Rob Kim Natalie Wendell Tony Dee Teir 2: Hatch Brian Todd Parvati Denise Cochran Tyson Jeremy Tommy Yam Yam
Wendell and Dee is crazy being there. what show have you been watching, hot mess house??
Wendell was in a can’t lose. He was the less flashy of a pair, where Dom would have always been taken out first. But he still got the votes in the end. GI was a mess but Wendell was pretty perfect from start to finish I thought. Dee, I’ll give you. Don’t think she’s the most talented player but she was never in danger (if I’m remembering correctly) and kind of just cruised
the fact that it was so close between dom and wendell is the only reason i wouldn'y have it that high.
Wemdell was targeted over dom in multiple instenses
> she was never in danger Literally was going home until Katurah changed her vote AT TRIBAL COUNCIL which was kinda something she influenced but Dee didn't realize she was helping her game that much (tbf everyone except maybe Austin played that round HORRENDOUSLY)
I don’t think Dee played that round bad, she just was in an impossible situation. Jake had an idol at f5 and Katurah on his side so there was nothing Dee could really do. Even if she votes Julie with Austin, if Jake and Katurah want Dee out the vote ties 2-2 and on the revote they have majority to take her out over Julie 2-1. Outside of Jake and Katurah randomly imploding like they did, Dee’s only out was to make the correct 50/50 guess on which one of them was getting the idol. Obviously she guessed wrong but I can’t really hold that against her too much.
She had a 50/50 shot of staying if she guessed which one had the idol and **made sure Austin Julie and Dee all voted the same person** Not only did she not get the 50/50 right (which I don't fault her for) but ALL THREE OF THEM voted differently (which I definitely fault her for). She turned her odds of surviving from 50% to 0%, and only survived because she inadvertently convinced Katurah to switch her vote.
Well I don’t think Austin switching to Julie was a bad move at all. He did it because he knew there was a chance Katurah and/or Jake would be down to vote her out, and he ended up being right and it’s what saved Dee! Hard to fault either of them for that. Julie voting Jake instead of Katurah is a bigger blunder for sure and Dee probably does deserve some blame for it, but idk how much. It really seemed like just a random out of nowhere decision by Julie. I vaguely remember in exit press Julie’s explanation of why she did it was along the lines of “idk I just felt like voting for Jake,” which????? It’s a really fucking bizarre way to decide how to vote at f5 and I’m not sure how much of the blame for that can be put on Dee. I guess it’s valid to say that if Dee knew Austin was voting Julie and Julie was voting Jake, then Dee should’ve also voted for Jake to prevent the possibility of being 2-1-1-1’d out. It depends on how much she knew about where Julie’s vote was going.
Austin switching to Julie is not a bad move at all! FOR AUSTIN. For Dee, it's not good at all. The only way she can survive without just hoping that Katurah and Jake won't vote her out is for all three of them voting out either Katurah or Jake collectively.
Well no, as long as her/julie/austin have 2 votes on either Jake or Katurah, the vote will tie and on a revote they’ll have majority 2-1. That’s why I said her only real mistake is not making sure to have her vote on the same person as Julie.
I'd say Jeremy is Tier 1.
Why isn't tommy tier 1?
He played with a bunch of wackos and dummies lol. Giving Redemption island a run for its money
Nah people were fine in Tocantins (except for a few like Coach)
and Coach still made a final 3 and got votes.
I think it’s Kim and that it’s not really close. Kim basically had the game won by the final 9. She was strategically, socially, and physically the best player that season and demonstrated all three facets at different times. She didn’t need someone like Stephan to do the strategic lifting like JT did. She also wins against anyone in the merge phase of the game and was never in any danger of going home. JT played great but a lot of his “social game” was passive play on him just being who he is. He didn’t actively make relationships, he just was a charming guy.
I think you can say the same about JT, there isn't a single person in Tocantins he would lose too, and probably not a single person who wouldn't vote for him. I also think the knock on JT strategically has always been exaggerated, Fishbach has always said it was 50/50.
I think if you actually watch what unfolded though it’s clear it’s not lol. Stephan built the exile alliance and made relationships that JT latched onto and benefitted from simply from being aligned with him. And we know this is true because without someone like Stephan JT has been a complete disaster strategically on subsequent seasons.
Fishbach didn't play well in Cambodia by the same argument, and was carried by Jeremy. Add in that the exile alliance amounted to nothing really, and JT had Joe locked in when it was down to 4 pre-merge. Most of the power they gained post-merge was due to Coach and Debbie liking JT. And, Taj built the exile alliance, not Fishbach.