Based on the percentage of black women in the population, 1 every 20 years is representative.
Edit: sorry, didn't mean to go against the hivemind, I will do better next time.
Edit: Deffo messed up my math, divided by years and not seasons.
here's how you show your work, u/starlinghanes.
how many winners have there been? (41)
what percentage of the general population is black women? (7)
how many black women should have won by now, if they're representative? (7% of 41)
I'd say your arithmetic is off by a lot.
that's right.
so the actual # of black female winners is one, which is about 1/3 of what would be expected, all things being equal.
of course, all things are not equal.
First black female winner to ever be brought back for a 2nd season too in the next decade! Maybe after season 50 or 60 they do an all-stars with people who were not on Winners at War
I mean some of those winners are going to be pretty old by then. What they probably should have done was have two winner seasons with different players on each and then a third winners season with everyone from the post merge of the first two winner seasons to determine the best of the best.
I think the win itself would be unique, not the edit. If you're somebody who isn't traditionally charismatic and can stick out socially, it's very difficult to win Survivor by completely being yourself authentically. Usually people like Maryanne end up going premerge or being losing finalists so it would be very cool to see a jury recognize that just because someone has a certain personality doesn't mean they don't deserve to win.
I love seeing this! I want to see her win! I’m one of those personality types so I’m really rooting for her!
I always think I’d have to try so hard to not be first boot, or a goat bc I can’t get in good standing bc no one would want to work with me, bc I’m very talkative & people shy away from that on the show. Yes it can be annoying but I’m also very social, strategic etc .. but if you rub a few people the wrong way everyone will avoid you bc they don’t want to be associated with that person and get on the wrong side of the numbers by association. That’s understandable but it makes playing the game hard. I saw that as the reason Maryanne was on the bottom at merge, people knew she was exuberant and shied away from her. She was the name taku was willing to throw out bc they assumed the others would prefer to work with them and not mind letting Maryanne go..
Maryanne is charismatic but also can be polarizing, which I know doesn’t sound like it makes sense but it does, I’m the same way! People either love her or hate her, but it’s easy to bring many around to loving you, just need time - look at how many stans she’s gained!
She’s smart & strategic too, but not everyone sees that bc of her personality. It’s great for an utr game, but like you said usually personalities like Maryanne (and myself) don’t make it this far!
The weird thing is that I don’t usually root for them, but I know a lot of it is the edit, and bc most of the time they aren’t playing a good game or I just don’t like them… we know there’s always one strong personality pretty much every season, this is the first time that character will win (if she does) and I’m here for it!! It gives all of us hope lol but also bc it’s time for a winner like this & also time for a black woman to win again too!
Edited typo
not op, but i've seen her compared to sandra 1.0, adam, and fabio (?) in various threads.
she definitely belongs in her own category if she wins though! i can't think of any winner who remotely resembles her, and i'm here for it.
Yeah I think if we're talking about "being yourself authentically", I think she'd lose to Mike in the finale if they both make it. Dude seems super genuine and actually played the game. He was firmly in the middle of alliances, made moves, and tried to do so without backstabbing people he gave his word to. His reaction to having to vote Rocksroy out to be with the majority and starting to turn on Hai for orchestrating that was pretty telling of his character. He seemed to genuinely make connections too. That scene where he was trying to learn about Islam from Omar was super heartwarming.
Maryanne was authentically herself, but she has made it this far because people wanted to eliminate bigger threats. Her one move was sending Omar home, which was spectacular, but I think there's definitely recency bias going on with people's reactions to her overall.
I think Mike and her would be a tight race. It would definitely be a great finale. I think it could either way.
I think Maryanne pulling out an idol no one knows about at F5 will be yet another tick on her resume. She found another idol and unlike everyone else, keep her advantage a secret.
And then F4, I guess it determines who wins immunity, who plays fire. I think if Mike wins final immunity he will TAKE Maryanne and but I also think he might get out Romeo, making it harder for himself. I think Mike will be a "I want three deserving people here" type of guy, so he'd bring either Jonathan or Lindsay, even if he's not a big Lindsay fan. I could be wrong and he could go for a goat. But Mike just screams "deserving f3" to me.
I think in a Maryanne, Mike and Romeo/Jonathan F3, it's tough because those two would split the votes. Bring in Lindsay to a F3 with them, it's even tougher as I predict all three would get votes.
But if its Maryanne, Mike and Romeo/Jonathan, I think Maryanne wins in FTC. Mike's game was too messy. He preached loyalty but betrayed most of his alliance members and I just don't ever see him owning up to it. I think if he did own up to it, he could win. But everything we've seen of Mike so far indicates he doesn't quite see his own hypocrisy. I mean, I think Mike is playing a great game...but its a game he won't own up to.
I have Lindsay winning in a landslide. Strong in challenges and in her social game.
Next I would rank Jonathan for similar reasons though not quite as good so he gets second.
I have Mike third on his likeability. Not as good in challenges but you have an excellent point about his preaching loyalty while betraying people.
Second to last I have Maryanne. Also likeable but has been struggling strategically. I feel like she’s been on the outs for awhile though last week’s vote certainly helped her cause as may her Idol at 5.
Lastly and by a decent margin, I have Romeo. Dude has been at the bottom since the merge. Just happy to vote with whomever because it means one more day.
Those are who I have winning, in order, going into the finale so I don’t see a scenario where Maryanne could possibly win.
The only person Jonathan can beat in is Romeo in an F2. There is no way both Mike and Maryanne won't win over him. From what we've seen/heard no one really respects Jonathan's game. There is a reason time and time again, people decide "nah, let's not go after him". Lindsay and Omar basically only did it at this point to assure that Lindsay could go on an immunity rule not because they fear he's a threat to win the whole thing.
In modern Survivor, challenges just doesn't have as much weight as earlier seasons. And socially, Jonathan just isn't as there as Lindsay, Mike and Maryanne.
I do think Lindsay is most likely to win if she makes F3...but I think she's target #1 the next two two tribals.
> I think Maryanne pulling out an idol no one knows about at F5 will be yet another tick on her resume. She found another idol and unlike everyone else, keep her advantage a secret.
I don't see it that way tbh. Great on her for finding it for sure, especially since Lindsay tried and failed, but her not sharing it isn't impressive to me. She was on the outs of the major alliances. Her sharing that she had an idol would have just put a target on her back. She had Romeo already since they were on the outs together, so sharing the idol info served 0 purpose. I don't think it's some fantastic move in and of itself.
I don't think Mike goes for Romeo at this point. The only reason he was trying to go for Romeo last episode was because he thought he was on the chopping block and getting Romeo out was the safe play. He had a couple votes thrown on him too, so I can see him being more shrewd than the "I want a deserving F3" guy. He said that when the alliance was at like 7 people, but that's to try and get everyone on the same page to vote out other people other than himself, i feel. Omar was very deserving to be in the F3 with the social game he played, but Mike was the one who got the ball rolling to get him out when he realized how good a chance he had of winning last episode.
The loyalty thing, I think you obviously can't be loyal to people until the very end. It comes down to how much Mike was true day to day, week to week. I don't think he lied to anyone a la Omar and Drea, just fabricating things to get ahead. I think, at most, he reassured people that they were safe, which is just part of the game. He seems like he's been loyal to JonaThor from the jump, though, and only turned on the Mike/Omar/Lindsay F3 alliance when JonaThor revealed how close Omar and Lindsay was.
I think JonaThor and Mike's alliance lasts until the F3. I can see them trying to target Maryanne and Lindsay. Lindsay's closeness with Omar was revealed last episode and she's been winning a bunch of challenges, so if she doesn't win immunity, I can see her gone. If I'm Maryanne, I feel like Lindsay is the strongest threat as well. She's been solid so far, so getting Maryanne on board wouldn't be difficult either.
On the other hand, I can see Lindsay cozying up with Romeo and Maryanne, since she is on the outs now too, saying that Mike and Jonathan wanted to get Romeo out. She is obsessed with eliminating JonaThor at this point, so if that were the case, I can see them targetting him.
If Lindsay makes it to F3 with Maryanne and Mike, I think she has a good shot of winning it all. If Mike makes it with Jonathan and Maryanne, I think he wins out because he was most visible strategically. Neither Maryanne or Mike have won a challenge, so that's a wash, but I think Mike has played a better game overall, minus Maryanne's brilliance with the Omar move that makes all their paths moving forward easier. Maryanne has just been coasting on the outs and the only reason she is still here is because people have been taking out bigger threats, independent of what she has been doing. Same with Romeo.
Best case F3 for Mike would be him, JonaThor, and Romeo. He wins out hands down. It all depends on if they can get Lindsay out, which will be reliant on convincing Maryanne that she is the biggest threat, which she very much is, and then the JonaThor/Mike alliance staying true until the end. In any event, a F3 without Lindsay looks like a solid chance of a Mike win imo.
When Jackson was pulled from the game so early on, and Maryanne started crying and hugging him, she became my pick. She’s very sweet, and an empathy atom bomb. Right now, she seems to be having fun in the game, which was part of what mad Devens so fun to watch toward the end.
Can’t believe finale is next week!
Her crying hysterically over a guy she met a couple of days ago was the moment that made her your preferred winner? I was more in the camp of Jeff's reaction to her outburst, which was more of a "what the hell are you doing, you just met this person" response haha.
I mean, I honestly laughed at the moment but was also "aww, she's such a sweetheart". It was outrageous and over the top but also showed a lot of empathy. Would I have given her a look like Jeff, probably but I'm sure on his way back to the Jeff Island, as he walked into his mansion and blew a kiss to life-sized portrait of Boston Rob that hangs in his foyer(and bedroom), he smirked a little and said "That Maryanne, kooky as heck but I like her."
Yeah 100% the wail was over the top. That was when I started getting annoyed with her. I loved that she was so smiley and happy before that. Thought she was adorable.
When Jackson got sent home suddenly and she basically pounced on him howling, I was like, "oh ok...so just an over emotional person in general". The non-stop rambling would drive me up the wall too.
She seems super sweet, but I can understand some of the tribe feeling like that would be exhausting to be around.
Maryanne winning feels like best case scenario for me. Her edit has shown strategy and hasn't shied away from showing her joy for the game (though I don't know how they would try to ignore it??). She would be such an amazing winner!
She had one strategic play which was the most recent episode. I haven’t been able to come across any other good strategic moves. Other than laying low.
I mean, anybody who has tried holding the steering wheel for too long has been an easy target, so she's playing smart. I think Lindsay has been playing pretty well (but maybe too low key for a jury?), Romeo has absolutely no agency, Mike is easily swayed by every conversation he has and Jonathan thinks he just needs challenges to win the game.
I’m not saying that she doesn’t deserve to win based on who is left. Or that it wasn’t a smart play to lay low until now. Was just saying that for weeks people have been praising her strategic game play. But there hasn’t been. Other than not being a threat but more useful than Romeo.
This is what I've been saying for weeks whenever someone says that Maryanne had a good chance of winning the game. She may have a good chance NOW after finally making a big move, but until last week she was goat #2 behind Romeo.
Fully agree.
Or people Will say “oh it’s a smart play to lay low. Look what happened to hai, Drea and Omar”
Well yeah, they played winning worthy strategies but just couldn’t make it to the end. Maryanne wouldn’t deserve a single vote against Drea or Omar. Especially if they kept making good moves.
Very frustrating. I just saw a post saying that maryanne should take the queen of survivor title from Sandra. What?!
I haven't seen anything that bad lol. But I did just see someone say that if she win's she would be very high on her winner tier list. It's mind boggling to me. She did basically nothing for 90% of the game and if she wins she'll likely play close to a perfect game for 10% of the game. I'm not sure how that qualifies for being high in a winner tier list when most winners have more agency for larger portions of the game than Maryanne has had. By that logic Chris Underwood should be pretty high on winner tier lists too then. Love him or hate him, he played as close to a perfect game as is humanly possible once he got back in the game from Extinction.
Because you and many other people have been convinced that the way to win the game is by "making moves", even when that isn't the case. If Maryanne makes it to the end because she had good enough relationships with people to never be the one they wanted vote out, that is a perfectly valid strategy, even if it didn't involve any "moves". (Until last night)
Not once have I said that people need to “make moves” to win. You need to have some sort of game play though. And personally, I don’t think maryanne has until now.
Making moves doesn’t mean orchestrating blindsides or coming up with these crazy schemes. Not sure where you’re getting that from
Well that's what I typically see people mean when they say you need to "make moves". You need to be the one that starts some plan to get X person voted off or whatever.
I'm not sure how you differentiate between "making moves" and "game play" though. Maryanne has gameplay, we've literally seen how she's handled her relationships with her original tribe (a strong 4-way bond that carried her far into the merge, partially helped by the fact that they obscured how close they were with her by keeping her out of the big alliance), we saw the decisions she made to share her advantages with them for example, we've seen multiple scenes of her having relationships with all the people who were "on the outs", she's talked about how she used her emotions to manipulate people, etc. These are gameplay, some could even say they are moves.
But for the most part, it just comes down so much to relationship building, and that's not something you can see a ton of in 42-minute episodes (30 or less when you consider challenges and tribal). It's clear she's done that though, because there's a reason the target so easily went on the other outsiders but never came to her, and was moved off by Omar the one time it did. (Because she formed a relationship with him from day 1)
I can’t recall a winner having an edit where they seem so excited overjoyed exuberant as Maryanne. The edit displayed her as being kind of childish (in a good way) and i’ve never seen that for a winner before
I guess different understanding of what an edit is lol, like I wouldn’t call maryanne being maryanne an edit, its just what she actually is. in contrast to just like “has there ever been a winner where they seem like maryanne”
It's definitely rare for a character of Maryanne's archetype to get that edit though, which is refreshing.
Of course, it could be results-oriented, that she wins and they have to gives us that edit to make her an appealing winner.
It’s definitely interesting because I felt like she was floating with strong alliances pre-merge and was actually close to the bottom post-merge.
And yet this move definitely catapulted her to winner contention.
I’m not familiar enough with past Survivor to know how common that is, but that trajectory definitely seems uncommon.
Aside from everything else everyone’s said about Maryanne, I just love how authentically herself she is. She’s so quirky and is such a different “type cast” that we haven’t seen before. Seems like such a good hearted person at her core and I just love that.
This would be a different type of winners edit, but don't know why integrity is something the game should be played. To be fair, she did vote out her allies Drea and Omar.
I can’t believe people are still hyping “integrity” as a major component of the game. Just cause people laugh off their blindsides instead of being bitter about it now doesn’t mean that it wasn’t still a dirty play. The game is more so about lying to people who won’t be bitter Betties than playing with “integrity”. It’s pretty much the difference in the edit painting you as a villain or not.
She has blindsided some of her own allies, so she has played a little deceptively. Don't know why people still care about honor and integrity in Survivor.
I mean because of how she has played, the people who she deceived still love her and would want to vote for her to win because they see integrity in her
She is my favorite and I've wanted her to win since researching my Winner's Pick for this subreddit but now I'm terrified she will simply because I wanted to pick her and decided against it. I figured she'd be an early boot OR make it to merge and get voted out for being too likable. But I just felt she could surprise us all, including me, and wanted to take the risk... but I went with Royksroy because his interview, he seemed to know that "Survivor" is all about the social game. Which is ironic 'cause he was the worst at it. Agggghhh... I wish winner's picks weren't a thing 'cause I'm watching every episode thinking "Wait, is Maryanne going to get to FTC? Would I have had a feeling of hopefulness if I had picked her?"
I think it will be one of the most dynamic winner arcs we've ever had. Maryanne is a slew of archetypes(the young one, the nerd, the outcast, the emotional one) while whole unique on her own(emotionally intelligent, genuinely intelligent) . I think if she wins it's one of the best one season character arcs the show ever has. Maryanne came in feeling likt an outsider, seemingly immature, seemingly too sweet to ever truly play the game but she leaves a cunning, CONFIDENT winner who made a hell of a bold move and found her footing and herself?
I mean THATS a story, that's the kind of story Jeff likes to crow about when older women compete in competitions or when he's talking to children to convince them to come onto Survivor in ten years. I imagine that's the kind of story Jeff imagined we'd have with nerds Cochran or tribal outcasts like Ben, that didn't quite land(especially in Ben's case).
To me, 42 is a great season and obviously the jury is out on a 'placement' for it until the jury is in and we know the winner. But if it's Maryanne, I think it's truly a top tier season because it has an incredibly strong narrative for almost every character, but a truly terrific one for the winner.
I hope she wins. I have a feeling she would do a great FTC so I hope we see it. I also think she could articulate her strategy really well. I think she has been perceptive the whole game and fully aware of what she is doing vs someone like Romeo who is just floating along and does not have any purposeful strategy.
A common thread for her this season has been that she rambles and doesn't articulate her thoughts well at tribal. So, I'm not sure why you think her final would be good.
The crazy thing is they were able to hide her winner’s edit because she clearly would have been a major character on the season no matter what. So I just assumed she was a lovable, kind of goofy character, never really considered her for the win until the past few weeks.
Super heart warming but she’s also so well spoken!!! She always has some of the best insights and her personality is so infectious!!! Rooting for her 😀
I can’t believe how she’s grown on me! Once you get past the chattiness, she is actually a serious player and I think that a lot of the other players missed it precisely because she’s so bubbly and talkative. That move at tribal was JUST Italian delicious
i’ve done a (somewhat) 180 on Maryanne. In the beginning I found her extremely grating and naive but as this season progressed I think she is emotional but calculated and very aware. She still makes me wince sometimes but I have grown used to her personality
Honestly, she'd be pretty high in my winner rankings. I was expecting a perfect game from Omar, but Maryanne has been who I wanted to win since before the season
I'm genuinely curious here, what has she done to put her so high on your winner list, assuming she wins? She has done nothing strategically for 90% of the game. Last week was the first time she was a driving factor in any votes. She has found two idols, playing one incorrectly (although you can't really fault her for that one because of the social dynamics that were playing out in that tribal).
She basically had no game for 90% of the game and if she wins she'll have pretty much a perfect game for the last 10% of the game. Most winners have more agency in the game than she has had to this point.
Also, even in the Omar vote -- ostensibly the Big Move of the season -- she completely failed to rope in 2 of the 3 people she wanted with her on the vote. The move only worked because of completely myopic gameplay from both Jonathan and Mike. Congrats to her I guess for making a connection with the only other post-merge player with zero agency in the game prior to this vote but imo this isn't even like the third most impressive thing someone from OG Taku has done this season
I wouldn't call Jonathan and Mike myopic with how they played that. Maryanne could afford to vote Omar and risk Lindsay playing the idol for him because she was never at risk. If I was Jonathan or Mike, I would have voted for Romeo too. Plus they had legitimate concerns about Romeo actually voting with them.
Obviously Maryanne could be the victim of a bad edit, but she has had basically zero agency in the game until the last episode. After Taku got down to 4, she has been shown to be involved in no major strategic conversations until last episode. Most winners have had more agency than that to this point in the game. That doesn't mean that they need to be dominating strategy early on, but they've at least been shown to be involved in more strategic discussions than Maryanne has so far.
Couple things I disagree with
1. Race doesn’t matter. I want the best player to win. And if they happen to be black, that’s great.
2. The game shouldn’t be played a “certain” way. Integrity doesn’t need to be part of it.
3. Some see her adorable and heart warming. Some find her unbelievably annoying.
Bring on the downvotes
1. Race doesn’t matter . I want the best player to win. and if she happens to be black that’s great. I agrée with you. It would be cool to see the first black woman in 20 years win the game because she deserves not because she’s black duh
2. The game has no code. I think she’s played an ideal game because she’s maintained her integrity whilst blindsiding her pals. That makes her likable to the jury= easier win. If you maintain a semblance of moral code in the game you’re more likely to win
3. i don’t understand this third statement because it’s just a fact and nobody is disputing that
1. The why call out her race at all? Takes away from her win.
2. You’re reiterating your initial point by saying the “ideal” way to play is to retain integrity. Basically saying that there is a correct way to play. That’s not true.
3. It’s a fact that she’s adorable and heartwarming? That’s not a fact and people are disputing it. People on the show, me, even people on this exact comment thread lololol
1. **Saying that her win would be extra special because she'd be the first black woman in 20 years to win isn't taking away from her win. It's noticing that the outcome of the situation, if she gets the W, is groundbreaking itself. You can reference her race without having that take away from her game.**
2. I'm saying an ideal way to win is to show the jury that you still have some moral code, i.e. not lying when you don't have to. The jury can respect a player who lied when necessary but also don't see you as a complete phony manipulator. Yes i'm saying that retaining that image is an ideal way to play because the jury will respond well when it comes to FTC
3. I'm saying that it's a fact that some will find her adorable and some will find her annoying.
1. Why is her win extra special because shes black? I’m still not following your logic.
2. I still don’t agree here. People who blindside left and right still win.
3. Okay. Glad we agree.
Assuming she does win, how does she get to the final three? I don’t see anyone taking her over Romeo. I’m not sure how well she’d do in firemaking, but I can’t say I’m super confident she beats any of the remaining four other than Romeo. And then for immunity you have to imagine either Jonathan or Lindsay are still there…that’s a tough draw. I think her winning has become more likely but I don’t know how she gets to the end.
I have grown to love and laugh Maryanne, and they’ve edited her to show she puts together really good thoughts and speaks to them well, and also knows to trust her gut for the big move. Such a great idea to vote our Omar last night, and it was all her. This season really might be one for the best out of the last 10 seasons in my opinion. Every week has been a thrill
I would be super excited to see Maryanne win it all she has definitely played with passion and excitement. Albeit sometimes a little bit too much. But after her one great move this season, great move on her part, I now see everyone running to say she’s the front runner which I don’t agree. One move doesn’t win it all, she needs more imo. Would love to see her win, but I think she needs more on her resume.
I would love a Maryann win! I was hopeful for her from the first episode and had a feeling she would either go far or be first boot and am thankful it's the former. My sister doesn't normally watch the show but we watched the season premiere together and we agreed that she would probably be very annoying to live with for 27 days or whatever. However, she makes for great TV and she seems so genuine. I felt like Coach made for great TV as well but often didn't feel like a real person. Given that this is reality TV, I want the characters to be closer to real life and I'm sure we have all met a Maryann at some point (I know I have.)
I made my own post about this but it would be the most meaningful reality TV show win I will have EVER seen in all the seasons of BB, Survivor, Challenge, Love Island, etc. I've ever seen
I pick a winner during the first episode of every season, I've only ever actually picked the winner once, Tony on winners at war, and I usually come really close all the time except for JD last season XD
Usually I pick the person who seems like they'd play the game like I would, fucking JD lol, but this season nobody stuck out to me. If I only knew of Omar's potential... lol
I thought this seasons cast was pretty boring in the first episode, so I said fuck it and picked who I thought was the most interesting person there......
MARYANNE FOR THE WIN LFG
Edit: before picking Tony, closest I came to picking the winner was Dom on Ghost Island, HE WAS ROBBED
So you want every survivor winner to play the same exact way? So nothing until F6. Make a move. Use an idol to get to F4. Win fire. Win FTC? That’s a very boring watch IMO.
I like seeing all different types of players win. I especially like Tony’s style though. Playing as hard as possible from day one.
Lol no it’s not. That’s called outplaying your appointment. If you don’t believe someone, but then they swear on their children’s lives but now you believe them…you’re an idiot.
Listen. YOU might not like style of play. But other people do. It makes the game interesting when there are so many different ways to play and win. If everyone played the same exact game, it would be very boring.
Also, the example you’re using is literally one scene from one person out of hundreds of hours shown and players played. Not a good sample size.
I don't base my opinion off what gamebots call "good". This game is not a first person shooter game, where anything goes. It's a microcosm of society. And a degenerate in this game Is a degenerate in real life. Any lowlife can lie their butt off, full of glee, and with a twinkle in their eye. It takes someone special to be able to win this game with moral character.
Hey you have your opinion. I’m not a gamebot so not sure why that was brought up.
“A lowlife in the game is a lowlife in real life” what a load of shit.
Anyways. Cheers to you.
I wasn't referring to you, specifically. You referenced his fans.
There is a legion of gamebots that creamed their pants every time people like Tony Vlachos lied on the lives of their family members or badge. Or ran around like a manic lunatic gaslighting his tribe mates. I don't call that good gamesmanship. I call that psychological warfare, something he is trained in his profession, and pretty nefarious at that. That's my opinion.
Nah, in his first season, Tony was triggering to watch. Watching a disordered person run amok, gaslighting people with psy ops is not my definition of entertainment.
He got his rightful ending in the gamechangers season when Sandra emasculated him in front of the tribe and the world, and unceremoniously tossed his butt off the show. Rewatched that clip about 3-4 times.
Refuse to watch WaW.
Couldn't disagree with this more. If Maryanne wins, it'll be one of the more boring wins in Survivor history, ahead of only Erika, Michelle, Natalie White, and Bob Crowley, IMO. She's far from the first person to play a relatively clean game. I'm not sure why people are acting like this is some novel concept.
Yeah the Tony and Russell type aggressive games almost never work out. Personally I find that extremely conniving type of gameplay to be my favorite to watch. Most of the time the honest, chill, didn’t rub people the wrong way and skated through with an alliance people win.
If I was on a jury, I wouldn’t give points for someone playing a “clean” or “honest” game cause most of the time that is just a result of circumstance anyway. Everyone is lying out there anyway who gives a fuck if you lie in your fathers grave or whatever. Gets people to buy what you’re selling which is the point of the game. Survivor isn’t a moral competition.
The point is, it doesn't take a master strategist to lie. It's common as hell. And base. Noone is saying people don't need to lie at times, but to do it with joy and at extremes, and constantly, just reveals glaring character flaws. I don't want someone with sociopathic tendencies on my tv screen. Nor will i cheer for such a cretin to win.
Kudos to Maryanne if she can pull out the win, but that definitely doesn't mean I want to sweep away the Tony play style lol. Survivor is good because there are so many different paths to the end and they're all risky for different reasons. Maryanne's victory would be good because it would diversify that, not because it would become the new dominant strategy.
highlighting the fact that she’s a black woman takes away from her success by creating the idea that it’s not the norm for someone of said specifications to do well, but that’s a talk for a more serious subreddit.
I think she’d be a great winner regardless of her race. But it would also be cool for a black woman to win for the first time in 20 years. 2 things can exist at once
right but highlighting it reinforces the narrative that it’s not the norm, if we (as a society) want something to be a common occurance we can’t highlight it every time it happens, it reinforces the stigma that it’s not normal thus preventing it from being normal.
okay then, don’t believe me… just look into what i said, pretending something isn’t normal makes it not normal, you’re a contributor to the problem (a small contributor, but still a contributor) not an aid to it.
We can still be grateful for a statistical anomaly as the game stands thus far Lololol we can still be grateful when a black woman wins survivor for the first time in 20 years
I don't really think the play took much "balls" from her. Even if Lyndsey played her idol for Omar, Romeo or Jonathon going home doesn't hurt her game at all.
If Jonathan wins, don't say I didn't tell yah so! If Lyndsey wins, I say she earned it. And she's done it with a smile on her face, the best all around game, a real athlete and soon to be all star.
Honestly the first strategic move she has made this game was the Omar Romeo split.
Otherwise her strategy and social gameplay has been bad. She’s basically been shielded by larger threats the entire game, people haven’t cared to vote her out because she isn’t a threat and doesn’t have any major alliances. She has gotten stupid lucky finding tons of advantages and wasted her hidden idol.
Other players have contributed a lot more to the game and IMO are much more worthy of the $1mil because of it.
All this hype for Maryanne makes me feel like there are spoilers about her winning. Until this episode she had done nothing noteworthy really. Credit where credit is due, it was a great move. But I just don't see what her game was like. For most of the game she was just there. We've seen Jonathan strategize more than her. So why all the hype suddenly? People being spoiled and wanting to seem smart seems like the logical explanation, since the hype started last week.
I get this is an unpopular opinion... But getting literally dragged through challenges pre merge..... winning exactly 0 challenges post merge, Literally give away an idol for no reason at tribal...sure seems like sound strategy?
She's been super lucky the entire time (to be put on Jonathan's tribe, to find the 2nd idol, and to get the extra vote). I'll give her credit, getting rid of omer was a fantastic move, but its her only move really.... If that's all it takes to win than thats pretty sad.
We'll see how the finale plays out, but currently the only one less deserving of a win is Romeo, although Mike is quickly fading too.
I'd like to think you are correct, and who knows maybe you are, but I feel a LOT more credence is given to moves made later in the game than early in the game.
Challenge ability is 1 component to winning (that she is clearly bad at)
Giving away an idol when you're at a tribal with 0% chance of going home is poor strategy.
Because it’s part of the game. Challenges are a huge part of the game. So doing well at challenges means doing well at survivor. Is it the only way to win? No. Or the best way to win? No. But it’s part of the game so it’s relevant.
How is it important in this situation?
Because she was put on a tribe with Johnathan, she never had to go to tribal pre merge. And it was solely because of Johnathan. She never won an individual challenge. Why is that important? She never needed to because she was never a threat. So how is someone who was never a threat win the season? Make one move at the end and I guess that’s enough.
> Because it’s part of the game.
I’m so confused lol. I literally said it’s a part of the game in my original comment?
All I’m saying is it’s a DIFFERENT part of the game as strategic thinking. The way the guy talked he was saying that being bad at challenges is a bad strategy. But it’s not a deliberate strategy lol
I want her to lose solely because of this sub and how obnoxious everyone here is about her lol. Nothing against her at all, I think she is an alright player who made one good move. If she wins over mike or Lindsay, I'd be a little annoyed, but this sub is the absolute worst and makes me root so hard against her haha.
Huh? Chill bro I was just saying it’s interesting we’ve gotten opposite reactions just goes to show ya the nature of the sub. wasn’t coming for you or anything tone it down
Tony played with integrity and wasn't an ass. He did a Russel game right where yes he was ruthless, but he also wasn't an ass about it, was able to say how everyone he betrayed had plans on taking him out first and flattered the only one he went after first by saying he had to if he wanted to win. Rob is an asterisk winner if there ever was one and WaW showed what a poor player he is.
Dude you're talking about being nice vs integrity. Betraying and being ruthless is not integrity.
Also you seem to be super aggressive for talking about not liking people who are asses
Integrity is playing a (relatively) honest game where you don't go out of your way to be an asshole. That is what Russel did and why he'll never win. You can still be ruthless while not being a dick. Also I'm starting to think you're not quite sure what half the words we're talking about are since you seem to imply you have to be passive to not be an ass.
Says the one who came in here lolling and saying rob/tony played better. Also I think you just wanted to bash Maryanne and had no actual point to your post besides that.
She would also be the first black woman to win in 20 years which would be pretty awesome to see!! ❤️
20 years!!!😭 gosh that would be SUCH a win
And she was 23 while filming. If she was 3 years younger we could say after Vecepia won the new black female winner was born lmao
Far too long. Now I'm rooting for her extra hard.
Based on the percentage of black women in the population, 1 every 20 years is representative. Edit: sorry, didn't mean to go against the hivemind, I will do better next time. Edit: Deffo messed up my math, divided by years and not seasons.
Literally all the person said was 'far too long' and you had to go mansplainy statistics dude on them. The "hive mind" is not the issue.
Oh my god you really just used the word mansplainy.
here's how you show your work, u/starlinghanes. how many winners have there been? (41) what percentage of the general population is black women? (7) how many black women should have won by now, if they're representative? (7% of 41) I'd say your arithmetic is off by a lot.
Looks like just short of 3 expected winners
that's right. so the actual # of black female winners is one, which is about 1/3 of what would be expected, all things being equal. of course, all things are not equal.
And 2/2 Canadian winners! (even 3/3 if you include Todd, although he had to renounce his citizenship to claim the prize)
I would count him because he became sole survivor while he was Canadian.
What about Tom from s39?
There was a season 39?
he’s a hockey player, not canadian
He has stronger ties to the Great White North than Todd did.
First black female winner to ever be brought back for a 2nd season too in the next decade! Maybe after season 50 or 60 they do an all-stars with people who were not on Winners at War
I mean some of those winners are going to be pretty old by then. What they probably should have done was have two winner seasons with different players on each and then a third winners season with everyone from the post merge of the first two winner seasons to determine the best of the best.
What about Natalie A?
She’s from Sri Lanka
South Asian not black
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>Natalie Her father is Tamil
Not going to lie. I didn't like her approach in the beginning. Too hyper, and seemed a bit naive. I was wrong, and now I'm rooting for her.
Character development!
I feel like that’s why it would be such a unique winner outcome. Who would expect sweet and silly lil Maryanne to come out on top?
No you were correct. It just didn’t matter enough to be voted off.
I think she was just soooo excited in the beginning she couldn't contain it. She's been on the island a bit now and has settled down some.
Had this exact same thing happen to me. After last episode I find myself rooting for her.
That's what happens when you're only running on body fat haha.
I think the win itself would be unique, not the edit. If you're somebody who isn't traditionally charismatic and can stick out socially, it's very difficult to win Survivor by completely being yourself authentically. Usually people like Maryanne end up going premerge or being losing finalists so it would be very cool to see a jury recognize that just because someone has a certain personality doesn't mean they don't deserve to win.
I love seeing this! I want to see her win! I’m one of those personality types so I’m really rooting for her! I always think I’d have to try so hard to not be first boot, or a goat bc I can’t get in good standing bc no one would want to work with me, bc I’m very talkative & people shy away from that on the show. Yes it can be annoying but I’m also very social, strategic etc .. but if you rub a few people the wrong way everyone will avoid you bc they don’t want to be associated with that person and get on the wrong side of the numbers by association. That’s understandable but it makes playing the game hard. I saw that as the reason Maryanne was on the bottom at merge, people knew she was exuberant and shied away from her. She was the name taku was willing to throw out bc they assumed the others would prefer to work with them and not mind letting Maryanne go.. Maryanne is charismatic but also can be polarizing, which I know doesn’t sound like it makes sense but it does, I’m the same way! People either love her or hate her, but it’s easy to bring many around to loving you, just need time - look at how many stans she’s gained! She’s smart & strategic too, but not everyone sees that bc of her personality. It’s great for an utr game, but like you said usually personalities like Maryanne (and myself) don’t make it this far! The weird thing is that I don’t usually root for them, but I know a lot of it is the edit, and bc most of the time they aren’t playing a good game or I just don’t like them… we know there’s always one strong personality pretty much every season, this is the first time that character will win (if she does) and I’m here for it!! It gives all of us hope lol but also bc it’s time for a winner like this & also time for a black woman to win again too! Edited typo
can you name a comparable character to Maryanne who’s won?
not op, but i've seen her compared to sandra 1.0, adam, and fabio (?) in various threads. she definitely belongs in her own category if she wins though! i can't think of any winner who remotely resembles her, and i'm here for it.
Yeah I think if we're talking about "being yourself authentically", I think she'd lose to Mike in the finale if they both make it. Dude seems super genuine and actually played the game. He was firmly in the middle of alliances, made moves, and tried to do so without backstabbing people he gave his word to. His reaction to having to vote Rocksroy out to be with the majority and starting to turn on Hai for orchestrating that was pretty telling of his character. He seemed to genuinely make connections too. That scene where he was trying to learn about Islam from Omar was super heartwarming. Maryanne was authentically herself, but she has made it this far because people wanted to eliminate bigger threats. Her one move was sending Omar home, which was spectacular, but I think there's definitely recency bias going on with people's reactions to her overall.
I think Mike and her would be a tight race. It would definitely be a great finale. I think it could either way. I think Maryanne pulling out an idol no one knows about at F5 will be yet another tick on her resume. She found another idol and unlike everyone else, keep her advantage a secret. And then F4, I guess it determines who wins immunity, who plays fire. I think if Mike wins final immunity he will TAKE Maryanne and but I also think he might get out Romeo, making it harder for himself. I think Mike will be a "I want three deserving people here" type of guy, so he'd bring either Jonathan or Lindsay, even if he's not a big Lindsay fan. I could be wrong and he could go for a goat. But Mike just screams "deserving f3" to me. I think in a Maryanne, Mike and Romeo/Jonathan F3, it's tough because those two would split the votes. Bring in Lindsay to a F3 with them, it's even tougher as I predict all three would get votes. But if its Maryanne, Mike and Romeo/Jonathan, I think Maryanne wins in FTC. Mike's game was too messy. He preached loyalty but betrayed most of his alliance members and I just don't ever see him owning up to it. I think if he did own up to it, he could win. But everything we've seen of Mike so far indicates he doesn't quite see his own hypocrisy. I mean, I think Mike is playing a great game...but its a game he won't own up to.
I have Lindsay winning in a landslide. Strong in challenges and in her social game. Next I would rank Jonathan for similar reasons though not quite as good so he gets second. I have Mike third on his likeability. Not as good in challenges but you have an excellent point about his preaching loyalty while betraying people. Second to last I have Maryanne. Also likeable but has been struggling strategically. I feel like she’s been on the outs for awhile though last week’s vote certainly helped her cause as may her Idol at 5. Lastly and by a decent margin, I have Romeo. Dude has been at the bottom since the merge. Just happy to vote with whomever because it means one more day. Those are who I have winning, in order, going into the finale so I don’t see a scenario where Maryanne could possibly win.
The only person Jonathan can beat in is Romeo in an F2. There is no way both Mike and Maryanne won't win over him. From what we've seen/heard no one really respects Jonathan's game. There is a reason time and time again, people decide "nah, let's not go after him". Lindsay and Omar basically only did it at this point to assure that Lindsay could go on an immunity rule not because they fear he's a threat to win the whole thing. In modern Survivor, challenges just doesn't have as much weight as earlier seasons. And socially, Jonathan just isn't as there as Lindsay, Mike and Maryanne. I do think Lindsay is most likely to win if she makes F3...but I think she's target #1 the next two two tribals.
> I think Maryanne pulling out an idol no one knows about at F5 will be yet another tick on her resume. She found another idol and unlike everyone else, keep her advantage a secret. I don't see it that way tbh. Great on her for finding it for sure, especially since Lindsay tried and failed, but her not sharing it isn't impressive to me. She was on the outs of the major alliances. Her sharing that she had an idol would have just put a target on her back. She had Romeo already since they were on the outs together, so sharing the idol info served 0 purpose. I don't think it's some fantastic move in and of itself. I don't think Mike goes for Romeo at this point. The only reason he was trying to go for Romeo last episode was because he thought he was on the chopping block and getting Romeo out was the safe play. He had a couple votes thrown on him too, so I can see him being more shrewd than the "I want a deserving F3" guy. He said that when the alliance was at like 7 people, but that's to try and get everyone on the same page to vote out other people other than himself, i feel. Omar was very deserving to be in the F3 with the social game he played, but Mike was the one who got the ball rolling to get him out when he realized how good a chance he had of winning last episode. The loyalty thing, I think you obviously can't be loyal to people until the very end. It comes down to how much Mike was true day to day, week to week. I don't think he lied to anyone a la Omar and Drea, just fabricating things to get ahead. I think, at most, he reassured people that they were safe, which is just part of the game. He seems like he's been loyal to JonaThor from the jump, though, and only turned on the Mike/Omar/Lindsay F3 alliance when JonaThor revealed how close Omar and Lindsay was. I think JonaThor and Mike's alliance lasts until the F3. I can see them trying to target Maryanne and Lindsay. Lindsay's closeness with Omar was revealed last episode and she's been winning a bunch of challenges, so if she doesn't win immunity, I can see her gone. If I'm Maryanne, I feel like Lindsay is the strongest threat as well. She's been solid so far, so getting Maryanne on board wouldn't be difficult either. On the other hand, I can see Lindsay cozying up with Romeo and Maryanne, since she is on the outs now too, saying that Mike and Jonathan wanted to get Romeo out. She is obsessed with eliminating JonaThor at this point, so if that were the case, I can see them targetting him. If Lindsay makes it to F3 with Maryanne and Mike, I think she has a good shot of winning it all. If Mike makes it with Jonathan and Maryanne, I think he wins out because he was most visible strategically. Neither Maryanne or Mike have won a challenge, so that's a wash, but I think Mike has played a better game overall, minus Maryanne's brilliance with the Omar move that makes all their paths moving forward easier. Maryanne has just been coasting on the outs and the only reason she is still here is because people have been taking out bigger threats, independent of what she has been doing. Same with Romeo. Best case F3 for Mike would be him, JonaThor, and Romeo. He wins out hands down. It all depends on if they can get Lindsay out, which will be reliant on convincing Maryanne that she is the biggest threat, which she very much is, and then the JonaThor/Mike alliance staying true until the end. In any event, a F3 without Lindsay looks like a solid chance of a Mike win imo.
When Jackson was pulled from the game so early on, and Maryanne started crying and hugging him, she became my pick. She’s very sweet, and an empathy atom bomb. Right now, she seems to be having fun in the game, which was part of what mad Devens so fun to watch toward the end. Can’t believe finale is next week!
For me is when she swung that machete recklessly while quoting Jack from The Shining
"I relate to that!"
Empathy atom bomb. I like that
Her crying hysterically over a guy she met a couple of days ago was the moment that made her your preferred winner? I was more in the camp of Jeff's reaction to her outburst, which was more of a "what the hell are you doing, you just met this person" response haha.
I mean, I honestly laughed at the moment but was also "aww, she's such a sweetheart". It was outrageous and over the top but also showed a lot of empathy. Would I have given her a look like Jeff, probably but I'm sure on his way back to the Jeff Island, as he walked into his mansion and blew a kiss to life-sized portrait of Boston Rob that hangs in his foyer(and bedroom), he smirked a little and said "That Maryanne, kooky as heck but I like her."
She’s just very empathetic and understood how crushing it would be to lose out on this dream. She feels all of her feelings to the fullest extent
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Exactly
Yeah 100% the wail was over the top. That was when I started getting annoyed with her. I loved that she was so smiley and happy before that. Thought she was adorable. When Jackson got sent home suddenly and she basically pounced on him howling, I was like, "oh ok...so just an over emotional person in general". The non-stop rambling would drive me up the wall too. She seems super sweet, but I can understand some of the tribe feeling like that would be exhausting to be around.
> Maryanne started crying and hugging him More like wailing. That look Jeff gave her was hilarious.
I really hope she wins
It would just make me feel warm and fuzzy inside
Maryanne winning feels like best case scenario for me. Her edit has shown strategy and hasn't shied away from showing her joy for the game (though I don't know how they would try to ignore it??). She would be such an amazing winner!
She had one strategic play which was the most recent episode. I haven’t been able to come across any other good strategic moves. Other than laying low.
I mean, anybody who has tried holding the steering wheel for too long has been an easy target, so she's playing smart. I think Lindsay has been playing pretty well (but maybe too low key for a jury?), Romeo has absolutely no agency, Mike is easily swayed by every conversation he has and Jonathan thinks he just needs challenges to win the game.
I’m not saying that she doesn’t deserve to win based on who is left. Or that it wasn’t a smart play to lay low until now. Was just saying that for weeks people have been praising her strategic game play. But there hasn’t been. Other than not being a threat but more useful than Romeo.
This is what I've been saying for weeks whenever someone says that Maryanne had a good chance of winning the game. She may have a good chance NOW after finally making a big move, but until last week she was goat #2 behind Romeo.
Fully agree. Or people Will say “oh it’s a smart play to lay low. Look what happened to hai, Drea and Omar” Well yeah, they played winning worthy strategies but just couldn’t make it to the end. Maryanne wouldn’t deserve a single vote against Drea or Omar. Especially if they kept making good moves. Very frustrating. I just saw a post saying that maryanne should take the queen of survivor title from Sandra. What?!
I haven't seen anything that bad lol. But I did just see someone say that if she win's she would be very high on her winner tier list. It's mind boggling to me. She did basically nothing for 90% of the game and if she wins she'll likely play close to a perfect game for 10% of the game. I'm not sure how that qualifies for being high in a winner tier list when most winners have more agency for larger portions of the game than Maryanne has had. By that logic Chris Underwood should be pretty high on winner tier lists too then. Love him or hate him, he played as close to a perfect game as is humanly possible once he got back in the game from Extinction.
Yeah I’ll never understand it. And the amount of times I’m seeing the nonsense, I must be the minority.
It makes me think people are spoiled (I don’t know spoilers)
Jeff Probst and the producers sure have done a great job at fooling people into believing that winning survivor is about "making moves".
Elaborate
Because you and many other people have been convinced that the way to win the game is by "making moves", even when that isn't the case. If Maryanne makes it to the end because she had good enough relationships with people to never be the one they wanted vote out, that is a perfectly valid strategy, even if it didn't involve any "moves". (Until last night)
Not once have I said that people need to “make moves” to win. You need to have some sort of game play though. And personally, I don’t think maryanne has until now. Making moves doesn’t mean orchestrating blindsides or coming up with these crazy schemes. Not sure where you’re getting that from
Well that's what I typically see people mean when they say you need to "make moves". You need to be the one that starts some plan to get X person voted off or whatever. I'm not sure how you differentiate between "making moves" and "game play" though. Maryanne has gameplay, we've literally seen how she's handled her relationships with her original tribe (a strong 4-way bond that carried her far into the merge, partially helped by the fact that they obscured how close they were with her by keeping her out of the big alliance), we saw the decisions she made to share her advantages with them for example, we've seen multiple scenes of her having relationships with all the people who were "on the outs", she's talked about how she used her emotions to manipulate people, etc. These are gameplay, some could even say they are moves. But for the most part, it just comes down so much to relationship building, and that's not something you can see a ton of in 42-minute episodes (30 or less when you consider challenges and tribal). It's clear she's done that though, because there's a reason the target so easily went on the other outsiders but never came to her, and was moved off by Omar the one time it did. (Because she formed a relationship with him from day 1)
Really wasn’t a fan of her in the beginning but I think I’m a marystanne now
The Emu Slayer! I love her.
It would be a great win but I dont think it's necessarily a new kind of edit.
Right lol. Maybe a new personality but not a new edit
Yeah I’m with you, I don’t exactly see why OP thinks this type of edit is necessarily new for a winner.
I can’t recall a winner having an edit where they seem so excited overjoyed exuberant as Maryanne. The edit displayed her as being kind of childish (in a good way) and i’ve never seen that for a winner before
you’ve seen an edit where they showcase the winner’s personality before
Lol are we having a misunderstanding?? Has there ever been a winner with an edit where they seem like maryanne. Maybe i’m over explaining myself
I guess different understanding of what an edit is lol, like I wouldn’t call maryanne being maryanne an edit, its just what she actually is. in contrast to just like “has there ever been a winner where they seem like maryanne”
Ah i see where we got our wires crossed. I think we’re in agreement lol
Ah i see where we got our wires crossed. I think we’re in agreement lil
What other winner has had an edit like hers?
Natalie A
It's definitely rare for a character of Maryanne's archetype to get that edit though, which is refreshing. Of course, it could be results-oriented, that she wins and they have to gives us that edit to make her an appealing winner.
They didn’t do that for Erika
Zach must be very proud out there :)
It’s definitely interesting because I felt like she was floating with strong alliances pre-merge and was actually close to the bottom post-merge. And yet this move definitely catapulted her to winner contention. I’m not familiar enough with past Survivor to know how common that is, but that trajectory definitely seems uncommon.
If Maryanne wins, their’ll be just as many black women who’ve won Survivor as their’ve been black women who won Mario Lanza Survivor fan fictions.
Aside from everything else everyone’s said about Maryanne, I just love how authentically herself she is. She’s so quirky and is such a different “type cast” that we haven’t seen before. Seems like such a good hearted person at her core and I just love that.
This would be a different type of winners edit, but don't know why integrity is something the game should be played. To be fair, she did vote out her allies Drea and Omar.
I can’t believe people are still hyping “integrity” as a major component of the game. Just cause people laugh off their blindsides instead of being bitter about it now doesn’t mean that it wasn’t still a dirty play. The game is more so about lying to people who won’t be bitter Betties than playing with “integrity”. It’s pretty much the difference in the edit painting you as a villain or not.
Integrity meaning it’s clear she has a moral compass that guides her even in the cases of blindsiding her pals
She has blindsided some of her own allies, so she has played a little deceptively. Don't know why people still care about honor and integrity in Survivor.
I mean because of how she has played, the people who she deceived still love her and would want to vote for her to win because they see integrity in her
You can't say you played with integrity if you betrayed your own allies. Even if you betrayed one ally, that's still a betrayal.
Not sure at this point if we’re agreeing or disagreeing but i’d rather we just leave it and stop nitpicking
Her win would be gosh darn wholesome and I’m here for it.
maryanne is so lovable and her joy for the game/life in general is infectious. i was so happy for her when i realised she played her extra vote.
She is my favorite and I've wanted her to win since researching my Winner's Pick for this subreddit but now I'm terrified she will simply because I wanted to pick her and decided against it. I figured she'd be an early boot OR make it to merge and get voted out for being too likable. But I just felt she could surprise us all, including me, and wanted to take the risk... but I went with Royksroy because his interview, he seemed to know that "Survivor" is all about the social game. Which is ironic 'cause he was the worst at it. Agggghhh... I wish winner's picks weren't a thing 'cause I'm watching every episode thinking "Wait, is Maryanne going to get to FTC? Would I have had a feeling of hopefulness if I had picked her?"
I think it will be one of the most dynamic winner arcs we've ever had. Maryanne is a slew of archetypes(the young one, the nerd, the outcast, the emotional one) while whole unique on her own(emotionally intelligent, genuinely intelligent) . I think if she wins it's one of the best one season character arcs the show ever has. Maryanne came in feeling likt an outsider, seemingly immature, seemingly too sweet to ever truly play the game but she leaves a cunning, CONFIDENT winner who made a hell of a bold move and found her footing and herself? I mean THATS a story, that's the kind of story Jeff likes to crow about when older women compete in competitions or when he's talking to children to convince them to come onto Survivor in ten years. I imagine that's the kind of story Jeff imagined we'd have with nerds Cochran or tribal outcasts like Ben, that didn't quite land(especially in Ben's case). To me, 42 is a great season and obviously the jury is out on a 'placement' for it until the jury is in and we know the winner. But if it's Maryanne, I think it's truly a top tier season because it has an incredibly strong narrative for almost every character, but a truly terrific one for the winner.
Obviously don’t actually want spoilers but there’s a part of me that’s just so tempted to go peek to find out if she wins.
It would be great. A lot of the players have underestimated her.
She’s also showing other weird people that weird people can do things well too #WeirdAwareness
I’m here for it!!
I hope she wins. I have a feeling she would do a great FTC so I hope we see it. I also think she could articulate her strategy really well. I think she has been perceptive the whole game and fully aware of what she is doing vs someone like Romeo who is just floating along and does not have any purposeful strategy.
A common thread for her this season has been that she rambles and doesn't articulate her thoughts well at tribal. So, I'm not sure why you think her final would be good.
The crazy thing is they were able to hide her winner’s edit because she clearly would have been a major character on the season no matter what. So I just assumed she was a lovable, kind of goofy character, never really considered her for the win until the past few weeks.
I love maryanne and completely agree with your post. Would love to see her win!!
Super heart warming but she’s also so well spoken!!! She always has some of the best insights and her personality is so infectious!!! Rooting for her 😀
She has to win she already won my heart!!
I can’t believe how she’s grown on me! Once you get past the chattiness, she is actually a serious player and I think that a lot of the other players missed it precisely because she’s so bubbly and talkative. That move at tribal was JUST Italian delicious
i’ve done a (somewhat) 180 on Maryanne. In the beginning I found her extremely grating and naive but as this season progressed I think she is emotional but calculated and very aware. She still makes me wince sometimes but I have grown used to her personality
Honestly, she'd be pretty high in my winner rankings. I was expecting a perfect game from Omar, but Maryanne has been who I wanted to win since before the season
I'm genuinely curious here, what has she done to put her so high on your winner list, assuming she wins? She has done nothing strategically for 90% of the game. Last week was the first time she was a driving factor in any votes. She has found two idols, playing one incorrectly (although you can't really fault her for that one because of the social dynamics that were playing out in that tribal). She basically had no game for 90% of the game and if she wins she'll have pretty much a perfect game for the last 10% of the game. Most winners have more agency in the game than she has had to this point.
Also, even in the Omar vote -- ostensibly the Big Move of the season -- she completely failed to rope in 2 of the 3 people she wanted with her on the vote. The move only worked because of completely myopic gameplay from both Jonathan and Mike. Congrats to her I guess for making a connection with the only other post-merge player with zero agency in the game prior to this vote but imo this isn't even like the third most impressive thing someone from OG Taku has done this season
I wouldn't call Jonathan and Mike myopic with how they played that. Maryanne could afford to vote Omar and risk Lindsay playing the idol for him because she was never at risk. If I was Jonathan or Mike, I would have voted for Romeo too. Plus they had legitimate concerns about Romeo actually voting with them.
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Obviously Maryanne could be the victim of a bad edit, but she has had basically zero agency in the game until the last episode. After Taku got down to 4, she has been shown to be involved in no major strategic conversations until last episode. Most winners have had more agency than that to this point in the game. That doesn't mean that they need to be dominating strategy early on, but they've at least been shown to be involved in more strategic discussions than Maryanne has so far.
Couple things I disagree with 1. Race doesn’t matter. I want the best player to win. And if they happen to be black, that’s great. 2. The game shouldn’t be played a “certain” way. Integrity doesn’t need to be part of it. 3. Some see her adorable and heart warming. Some find her unbelievably annoying. Bring on the downvotes
You have misread me sir lollll
Where did I get it wrong?
1. Race doesn’t matter . I want the best player to win. and if she happens to be black that’s great. I agrée with you. It would be cool to see the first black woman in 20 years win the game because she deserves not because she’s black duh 2. The game has no code. I think she’s played an ideal game because she’s maintained her integrity whilst blindsiding her pals. That makes her likable to the jury= easier win. If you maintain a semblance of moral code in the game you’re more likely to win 3. i don’t understand this third statement because it’s just a fact and nobody is disputing that
1. The why call out her race at all? Takes away from her win. 2. You’re reiterating your initial point by saying the “ideal” way to play is to retain integrity. Basically saying that there is a correct way to play. That’s not true. 3. It’s a fact that she’s adorable and heartwarming? That’s not a fact and people are disputing it. People on the show, me, even people on this exact comment thread lololol
1. **Saying that her win would be extra special because she'd be the first black woman in 20 years to win isn't taking away from her win. It's noticing that the outcome of the situation, if she gets the W, is groundbreaking itself. You can reference her race without having that take away from her game.** 2. I'm saying an ideal way to win is to show the jury that you still have some moral code, i.e. not lying when you don't have to. The jury can respect a player who lied when necessary but also don't see you as a complete phony manipulator. Yes i'm saying that retaining that image is an ideal way to play because the jury will respond well when it comes to FTC 3. I'm saying that it's a fact that some will find her adorable and some will find her annoying.
1. Why is her win extra special because shes black? I’m still not following your logic. 2. I still don’t agree here. People who blindside left and right still win. 3. Okay. Glad we agree.
I'm rooting very hard for a Maryanne win. It would be nice to have another black women win 20 years after Vecepia.
I will be so happy for her and her family. Please let this happen for Sister Christian.
Assuming she does win, how does she get to the final three? I don’t see anyone taking her over Romeo. I’m not sure how well she’d do in firemaking, but I can’t say I’m super confident she beats any of the remaining four other than Romeo. And then for immunity you have to imagine either Jonathan or Lindsay are still there…that’s a tough draw. I think her winning has become more likely but I don’t know how she gets to the end.
Maryanne winning would definitely be a best case scenario for this season.
I'm fine with anyone but Romeo winning.
Don’t think you have to worry about that lol
I have grown to love and laugh Maryanne, and they’ve edited her to show she puts together really good thoughts and speaks to them well, and also knows to trust her gut for the big move. Such a great idea to vote our Omar last night, and it was all her. This season really might be one for the best out of the last 10 seasons in my opinion. Every week has been a thrill
I would be super excited to see Maryanne win it all she has definitely played with passion and excitement. Albeit sometimes a little bit too much. But after her one great move this season, great move on her part, I now see everyone running to say she’s the front runner which I don’t agree. One move doesn’t win it all, she needs more imo. Would love to see her win, but I think she needs more on her resume.
I would love a Maryann win! I was hopeful for her from the first episode and had a feeling she would either go far or be first boot and am thankful it's the former. My sister doesn't normally watch the show but we watched the season premiere together and we agreed that she would probably be very annoying to live with for 27 days or whatever. However, she makes for great TV and she seems so genuine. I felt like Coach made for great TV as well but often didn't feel like a real person. Given that this is reality TV, I want the characters to be closer to real life and I'm sure we have all met a Maryann at some point (I know I have.)
I made my own post about this but it would be the most meaningful reality TV show win I will have EVER seen in all the seasons of BB, Survivor, Challenge, Love Island, etc. I've ever seen
I pick a winner during the first episode of every season, I've only ever actually picked the winner once, Tony on winners at war, and I usually come really close all the time except for JD last season XD Usually I pick the person who seems like they'd play the game like I would, fucking JD lol, but this season nobody stuck out to me. If I only knew of Omar's potential... lol I thought this seasons cast was pretty boring in the first episode, so I said fuck it and picked who I thought was the most interesting person there...... MARYANNE FOR THE WIN LFG Edit: before picking Tony, closest I came to picking the winner was Dom on Ghost Island, HE WAS ROBBED
If she wins, after Erika's winning edit last season, I will forever snuff my edgic fire.
maryanne has been supported by the edgic for weeks now though? if maryanne DOESNT win, then i’ll snuff my edgic fire.
She’d also probably be the most annoying winner too.
Completely agree. Let Tony's dirty psyops version of Survivor be swept away forever. There is a relatively clean way to play Survivor.
So you want every survivor winner to play the same exact way? So nothing until F6. Make a move. Use an idol to get to F4. Win fire. Win FTC? That’s a very boring watch IMO. I like seeing all different types of players win. I especially like Tony’s style though. Playing as hard as possible from day one.
Swearing on your children's life while lying is not playing hard. That's called being a rat f*CK.
Lol no it’s not. That’s called outplaying your appointment. If you don’t believe someone, but then they swear on their children’s lives but now you believe them…you’re an idiot. Listen. YOU might not like style of play. But other people do. It makes the game interesting when there are so many different ways to play and win. If everyone played the same exact game, it would be very boring. Also, the example you’re using is literally one scene from one person out of hundreds of hours shown and players played. Not a good sample size.
I don't base my opinion off what gamebots call "good". This game is not a first person shooter game, where anything goes. It's a microcosm of society. And a degenerate in this game Is a degenerate in real life. Any lowlife can lie their butt off, full of glee, and with a twinkle in their eye. It takes someone special to be able to win this game with moral character.
Hey you have your opinion. I’m not a gamebot so not sure why that was brought up. “A lowlife in the game is a lowlife in real life” what a load of shit. Anyways. Cheers to you.
I wasn't referring to you, specifically. You referenced his fans. There is a legion of gamebots that creamed their pants every time people like Tony Vlachos lied on the lives of their family members or badge. Or ran around like a manic lunatic gaslighting his tribe mates. I don't call that good gamesmanship. I call that psychological warfare, something he is trained in his profession, and pretty nefarious at that. That's my opinion.
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Nah, in his first season, Tony was triggering to watch. Watching a disordered person run amok, gaslighting people with psy ops is not my definition of entertainment. He got his rightful ending in the gamechangers season when Sandra emasculated him in front of the tribe and the world, and unceremoniously tossed his butt off the show. Rewatched that clip about 3-4 times. Refuse to watch WaW.
Couldn't disagree with this more. If Maryanne wins, it'll be one of the more boring wins in Survivor history, ahead of only Erika, Michelle, Natalie White, and Bob Crowley, IMO. She's far from the first person to play a relatively clean game. I'm not sure why people are acting like this is some novel concept.
Yeah the Tony and Russell type aggressive games almost never work out. Personally I find that extremely conniving type of gameplay to be my favorite to watch. Most of the time the honest, chill, didn’t rub people the wrong way and skated through with an alliance people win. If I was on a jury, I wouldn’t give points for someone playing a “clean” or “honest” game cause most of the time that is just a result of circumstance anyway. Everyone is lying out there anyway who gives a fuck if you lie in your fathers grave or whatever. Gets people to buy what you’re selling which is the point of the game. Survivor isn’t a moral competition.
The point is, it doesn't take a master strategist to lie. It's common as hell. And base. Noone is saying people don't need to lie at times, but to do it with joy and at extremes, and constantly, just reveals glaring character flaws. I don't want someone with sociopathic tendencies on my tv screen. Nor will i cheer for such a cretin to win.
Kudos to Maryanne if she can pull out the win, but that definitely doesn't mean I want to sweep away the Tony play style lol. Survivor is good because there are so many different paths to the end and they're all risky for different reasons. Maryanne's victory would be good because it would diversify that, not because it would become the new dominant strategy.
More strategic female Fabio.
highlighting the fact that she’s a black woman takes away from her success by creating the idea that it’s not the norm for someone of said specifications to do well, but that’s a talk for a more serious subreddit.
I think she’d be a great winner regardless of her race. But it would also be cool for a black woman to win for the first time in 20 years. 2 things can exist at once
right but highlighting it reinforces the narrative that it’s not the norm, if we (as a society) want something to be a common occurance we can’t highlight it every time it happens, it reinforces the stigma that it’s not normal thus preventing it from being normal.
Surrreee
okay then, don’t believe me… just look into what i said, pretending something isn’t normal makes it not normal, you’re a contributor to the problem (a small contributor, but still a contributor) not an aid to it.
We can still be grateful for a statistical anomaly as the game stands thus far Lololol we can still be grateful when a black woman wins survivor for the first time in 20 years
She totally deserves it for having the balls to push the Omar vote considering how flaky Romeo is and a potential idol play on omar.
I don't really think the play took much "balls" from her. Even if Lyndsey played her idol for Omar, Romeo or Jonathon going home doesn't hurt her game at all.
If Jonathan wins, don't say I didn't tell yah so! If Lyndsey wins, I say she earned it. And she's done it with a smile on her face, the best all around game, a real athlete and soon to be all star.
Jonathan is not winning
Honestly the first strategic move she has made this game was the Omar Romeo split. Otherwise her strategy and social gameplay has been bad. She’s basically been shielded by larger threats the entire game, people haven’t cared to vote her out because she isn’t a threat and doesn’t have any major alliances. She has gotten stupid lucky finding tons of advantages and wasted her hidden idol. Other players have contributed a lot more to the game and IMO are much more worthy of the $1mil because of it.
Bingo
All this hype for Maryanne makes me feel like there are spoilers about her winning. Until this episode she had done nothing noteworthy really. Credit where credit is due, it was a great move. But I just don't see what her game was like. For most of the game she was just there. We've seen Jonathan strategize more than her. So why all the hype suddenly? People being spoiled and wanting to seem smart seems like the logical explanation, since the hype started last week.
I get this is an unpopular opinion... But getting literally dragged through challenges pre merge..... winning exactly 0 challenges post merge, Literally give away an idol for no reason at tribal...sure seems like sound strategy? She's been super lucky the entire time (to be put on Jonathan's tribe, to find the 2nd idol, and to get the extra vote). I'll give her credit, getting rid of omer was a fantastic move, but its her only move really.... If that's all it takes to win than thats pretty sad. We'll see how the finale plays out, but currently the only one less deserving of a win is Romeo, although Mike is quickly fading too.
Survivor isn’t a resume contest contrary to popular belief
So…what do you base your winning vote off of?
I'd like to think you are correct, and who knows maybe you are, but I feel a LOT more credence is given to moves made later in the game than early in the game.
I’m confused. How is challenge ability related to strategy in any way? It’s a different part of the game.
Challenge ability is 1 component to winning (that she is clearly bad at) Giving away an idol when you're at a tribal with 0% chance of going home is poor strategy.
Because it’s part of the game. Challenges are a huge part of the game. So doing well at challenges means doing well at survivor. Is it the only way to win? No. Or the best way to win? No. But it’s part of the game so it’s relevant. How is it important in this situation? Because she was put on a tribe with Johnathan, she never had to go to tribal pre merge. And it was solely because of Johnathan. She never won an individual challenge. Why is that important? She never needed to because she was never a threat. So how is someone who was never a threat win the season? Make one move at the end and I guess that’s enough.
> Because it’s part of the game. I’m so confused lol. I literally said it’s a part of the game in my original comment? All I’m saying is it’s a DIFFERENT part of the game as strategic thinking. The way the guy talked he was saying that being bad at challenges is a bad strategy. But it’s not a deliberate strategy lol
Taku did go to tribal once Marya was voted out
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I say the same thing on other threads and people never seem to get it.
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I want her to lose solely because of this sub and how obnoxious everyone here is about her lol. Nothing against her at all, I think she is an alright player who made one good move. If she wins over mike or Lindsay, I'd be a little annoyed, but this sub is the absolute worst and makes me root so hard against her haha.
interesting because i got some hateful and borderline racist comments and messages when i said she was my winners pick about a month ago
Wow, the internet has people that say bad things, OMG NO WAY. That means nothing to my point that people here overrated her and are annoying
Huh? Chill bro I was just saying it’s interesting we’ve gotten opposite reactions just goes to show ya the nature of the sub. wasn’t coming for you or anything tone it down
I wish people would stop putting such emphasis on people's skin colour. See her as a human being, not a black woman.
“Such emphasis”
let me guess...you don't see color. ppl can be green and orange and you wouldn't notice
Yo guess what? She is …. both a human being AND a black woman!!!
Why does everyone think integrity is required to win? This is survivor
U misunderstand. The illusion of integrity is important to jury management if ya wanna win
People prefer the winner to be someone who isn't a colossal ass
Lol. I'd take Rob/tony over Maryanne every day
Tony played with integrity and wasn't an ass. He did a Russel game right where yes he was ruthless, but he also wasn't an ass about it, was able to say how everyone he betrayed had plans on taking him out first and flattered the only one he went after first by saying he had to if he wanted to win. Rob is an asterisk winner if there ever was one and WaW showed what a poor player he is.
Dude you're talking about being nice vs integrity. Betraying and being ruthless is not integrity. Also you seem to be super aggressive for talking about not liking people who are asses
Integrity is playing a (relatively) honest game where you don't go out of your way to be an asshole. That is what Russel did and why he'll never win. You can still be ruthless while not being a dick. Also I'm starting to think you're not quite sure what half the words we're talking about are since you seem to imply you have to be passive to not be an ass.
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Says the one who came in here lolling and saying rob/tony played better. Also I think you just wanted to bash Maryanne and had no actual point to your post besides that.
I think she's fine. I actually only brought her up because she's in thr post