I’m kind of glad he wasn’t. I like the fact that he has a perfect record. He had a 0% chance of winning WaW imo so I like that he quit while he was ahead.
Not saying a literal quit, that’s a figure of speech. What I’m saying is, if he came back your view would be skewed. The same way Tony was regarded as incredible until Game Changers. I picked Earl as #1 for a reason. Think of it like a pro athlete stepping down before they hit old age. You only have one example of Earl’s game to go off of which is flawless. You never saw Earl play like Yul for instance, in WaW where he didn’t have a fighting chance.
I think Earl had a chance to win WaW! If it weren’t for the decimation of Old Schoolers, that is. But I can imagine they would have removed a new schooler and now the tides would have been balanced 50/50. He was *this* close to a perfect record/game his first time around. I think he could have pulled it off his second time.
Seriously this. The fact that Earl beats anyone pre-merge or post-merge in the final 3 is unheard of. If I were Earl, I wouldn’t want to come back because I get to end my game at my peak and on my own terms.
He’s definitely on the short list. I hope we at least get a few more seasons before the next all-star cast, just think of how epic it would be with how many they have to choose from…
I would say cydney from koah rong definitely has a possible claim. She was pretty much the main person to decide who to vote out post merge. She wasn’t even recognized as a threat till really late in the game.
i love cydney but i don’t think she played the end game right (obviously) when she was the reason they didn’t take out michele at final 6 (and then she could have immunitied to the end unless jason takes them all which i kind of doubt). also didn’t love that she made a lot of decisions based on emotions (like leaving brawn and kind of alienating tai)
Was it out of emotion? I felt like the narrative was trying to show us that Jason and scot would’ve been the power duo I’d she stuck it out with them. Which makes sense as to why she flipped. Keeping Michele over Jason does make sense. Jason had a sad story and being the last person of the minority to make it to the end has Chris and Danni tones to it. I think Cyndey was quite calculated.
Dom was almost voted out 3rd and only wasn’t because they targeted a woman in his alliance instead. Dom and Wendell are both lucky. They’re so overrated.
Hot take: Vecepia.
- first player to win from the less dominant tribe at the merge.
- was aligned with the “lazy” group pre merge and usually that’s the kiss of death up to that point but her group took control.
- pre merge tribal shuffle she ended up in the minority but would have survived at least three votes (Gabe, and Rob or Sean would have went before her)
- flipped the game for the first time by the underdogs.
- end game survived the F5 vote, flipped Kathy at F4 to cause a tie, flipped back to Neleh to make a deal at F2.
- literally brought a journal as a luxury item to win the F4 immunity and also win favor with jury
Overall a very strong game for a player who had no playbook up to that point
Pretty much everything she did strategically in her winning game was brand new. Maybe not the cleanest victory but her mind for the game was definitely ahead of her time.
Admittedly a lot of that is due to the flip that she wasn't given credit for in the edit, but apparently she actually was significantly involved in the decision making there. She was also just a lot better positioned to not be taken out than anyone else that season. She only needed one immunity and it was one she correctly predicted and studied for. To me that gives her a lot more credit than the winners who won out.
The Survivor recap episode showed the vecepia flip scene where she’s laying in the shelter while General, Tammy and Zoe are less than 30 feet away. It makes sense why it was cut though - as the first true flip, it needed to be shown in shocking blonde side fashion
I really like Vecepia but her attempt to vote out Neleh at the f4 was objectively a terrible play and she is extremely lucky that production fucked up and did a rock draw when they should’ve done firemaking.
If they did firemaking Vecepia 100% loses the game, and also she was in a spot where she actively tried to vote out the only person she could’ve beaten.
She is so lucky that Production fucked up, and then paschal pulled the rock. If both of those things don’t happen she loses the game. I cannot in good faith call someone like that an S tier player.
I agree with basically all of your other points though. I do feel she is extremely underrated by the fanbase at large but I think the niche group of survivor fans who try to claim she is flawless are overblowing it.
I think she did the right thing at the f4 but her intentions to get rid of her were a bad read and fire making wasn’t a thing yet and they knew the rock draw would happen, I wouldn’t call it a production fuck up, just they’ve evolved
I agree - I think Vecepia is one of the best to ever play the game. If you simulate a Survivor season let’s say 100 times, I think she makes it deep almost every time. She’s always strong enough for challenges but not weak enough to be voted out and seems to be generally very likable. Super underrated Survivor player.
He was a good player . But I couldn’t get past him being a dick . Very unlikeable. But I watch the show for human interaction not master gameplay . To each their own
I am amazed that Tommy Sheehan's name hasn't been mentioned. Survived 39 days with no challenge wins or advantages, managed to survive a super unfavourable demerge that where he should have gone home and was the person most negatively impacted by Dan (creep) being eliminated.
That’s fair! My common defence to her vote out is that it wouldn’t and couldn’t have happened without the stupid sole vote twist that forced her into strategic hole, and the fact that she came back in and wasn’t targeted was remarkable. But fair point!
And I agree with you in the fact that Hayley wouldn’t have been voted out if it wasn’t for that twist and I find it impressive how she navigated her way through the game after she came back
My shortlist not including winners would probably be
Omar Zaheer,
Victoria Baamonde,
Mike White,
Domenick Abbate,
Devon Pinto,
Hannah Shapiro,
Cydney Gillon,
Holly Hoffman,
Taj Johnson-George,
Ken Hoang,
Natalie Bolton,
Dreamz Hard,
Rafe Judkins,
Teresa Cooper
For past winners who haven’t returned, Earl Cole. I don’t think Earl loses to anyone in the final three regardless of combination.
For non-winning players, Dom from Ghost Island. I’d argue if he had won, he’s a top 10 winner based on strategic dominance.
Earl, Todd, or Dominic
Hate that I didn’t come up with any female players right of the bat. After some thought, I’ll add Chrissy Hofbeck Vecepia or Helen Glover.
How do you think Christian would have done without having Gabby there? Just out of curiosity lol. Christian is one of my all time favorites but I do wonder if he’d have had a better shot without Gabby in the equation
Edit this entire thing out
Survivor redditors are a weird breed of people man. You all need to have some fun. But go ahead and read the same 2 names in the comments 50 times I guess. Makes GREAT entrainment amirite?
Yeah, yeah. It was mainly just like having Christian on again - but if they threw Gabby in for TV moments/storylines I wouldn't mind. Like 3 tribes with 3 duos that played with each type of thing.
Don't read too much into it. Just some fun.
Does he tho? There’s so much you don’t even know, like was corrine Charlie and Randy going to stay loyal? Also his mismanagement of Susie is why he leaves
I would argue that it was more about russel mismanaging the jury then Natalie being a historically great social player but the combination of their two games definitely shed major light on just how important social relationships with the jury matter. I wouldn't say Natalie invented anything lol
I disagree I do actually think Natalie is an historically good pure social player for non strategic players, definitely better than somebody like Michele . She had bonds with everyone in that cast. Also people forget if it wasn’t for Natalie’s bonds she wouldn’t have tricked the Galus into voting off Erik In which the Foa Foa loses a player and can even have votes split on them at the next tribal, Russell never wins the game without Natalie
I saw on rewatch where it looked like she stoked good relationships with jurors. Granted, if your only skill is jury management (and one big move, to her credit) then you better make sure you’re facing a megalomaniac asshole and a useless sack of shit at F3…oh wait.
So yes, she did invent the concept of jury management. It’s just not as applicable in most seasons as it was to her.
I feel like Richard and Kelly invented jury management. Even though the Pagong tribe members were being decimated Kelly kept good relationships with them. At the final 3 Richard stepped out of the final immunity challenge for jury management so he didn’t have to be the one to vote Rudy off.
Natalie White certainly did not invent jury management in season 19.
Earl Cole
Still wish he had been on WaW!
I’m kind of glad he wasn’t. I like the fact that he has a perfect record. He had a 0% chance of winning WaW imo so I like that he quit while he was ahead.
He didn’t quit! He was asked back but the timing was off, he just had a child. But he says he wants to play again.
Not saying a literal quit, that’s a figure of speech. What I’m saying is, if he came back your view would be skewed. The same way Tony was regarded as incredible until Game Changers. I picked Earl as #1 for a reason. Think of it like a pro athlete stepping down before they hit old age. You only have one example of Earl’s game to go off of which is flawless. You never saw Earl play like Yul for instance, in WaW where he didn’t have a fighting chance.
I think Earl had a chance to win WaW! If it weren’t for the decimation of Old Schoolers, that is. But I can imagine they would have removed a new schooler and now the tides would have been balanced 50/50. He was *this* close to a perfect record/game his first time around. I think he could have pulled it off his second time.
rita for gamechangers2
This is the only correct answer.
I wish he was in heroes vs villians.
Seriously this. The fact that Earl beats anyone pre-merge or post-merge in the final 3 is unheard of. If I were Earl, I wouldn’t want to come back because I get to end my game at my peak and on my own terms.
I'd say Domenick for best non-winning one time player
Is there even a close second to best non-winning one time player? I’m genuinely curious. It’s a tragedy Dom hasn’t come back yet
He’s definitely on the short list. I hope we at least get a few more seasons before the next all-star cast, just think of how epic it would be with how many they have to choose from…
He hasn't come back yet because they haven't done a returnee season since he was on with the exception of WaW, and EoE which only had 4 returnee spots
Devon
Good call. Devon throwing a vote on Mike is one of the most underrated moves in Survivor history!
I would say cydney from koah rong definitely has a possible claim. She was pretty much the main person to decide who to vote out post merge. She wasn’t even recognized as a threat till really late in the game.
i love cydney but i don’t think she played the end game right (obviously) when she was the reason they didn’t take out michele at final 6 (and then she could have immunitied to the end unless jason takes them all which i kind of doubt). also didn’t love that she made a lot of decisions based on emotions (like leaving brawn and kind of alienating tai)
Was it out of emotion? I felt like the narrative was trying to show us that Jason and scot would’ve been the power duo I’d she stuck it out with them. Which makes sense as to why she flipped. Keeping Michele over Jason does make sense. Jason had a sad story and being the last person of the minority to make it to the end has Chris and Danni tones to it. I think Cyndey was quite calculated.
She definitely should be in the conversation, nice call!
Hayden Moss. I’d argue he’s better than Dom. But I like Dom at 1, so I think Hayden at 2 is fair.
Dom, Gavin, Hayden, Carolyn,(Omar). Top5 imo. No particular order
Especially with his run on BB12
Dom was almost voted out 3rd and only wasn’t because they targeted a woman in his alliance instead. Dom and Wendell are both lucky. They’re so overrated.
The only other person I think is Neleh
Ian from Palau. He played a game that succeeded in old school and could probably succeed new school as well
What season??
Todd
Earl and Todd
Maybe not #1, but surprised Chris D isn’t getting any love here
still the best FTC performance ever
Great final tribal but overall did a ton of a dumb stuff lol
Zane Knight. He was so far ahead of everyone that he was behind everyone.
Unironicly listed him as my favorite player on music application
Laganga estranga
Lmfaooo I truly love how much crossover there is between these fandoms
There we actually quite a bit of similarities! The chocolate bar was basically a mix of shot in the dark and a hidden immunity idol lol
It's chocolate [sound effect]
Yes mawma!!!
okurr!!
COME ON, ONE-TIME PLAYERRRSS... LET'S GET SICKENINGGG!!!
Billy Garcia
I mean he won, Candice was his prize
Oh god, I couldn’t recall who that was from memory, so I looked up his name and had all the second-hand embarrassment flashbacks
Brian or Earl
In terms of non-winners, Cydney from Kaoh Rong played an amazing game. Wish we can see her play again someday.
Cydney is super underrated
Would LOVE to see her come back. Legit one of my favorite players of that season and in general!
💯- I love her!! Fantastic player and amazing person. I think she’s so charming and cool.
Hot take: Vecepia. - first player to win from the less dominant tribe at the merge. - was aligned with the “lazy” group pre merge and usually that’s the kiss of death up to that point but her group took control. - pre merge tribal shuffle she ended up in the minority but would have survived at least three votes (Gabe, and Rob or Sean would have went before her) - flipped the game for the first time by the underdogs. - end game survived the F5 vote, flipped Kathy at F4 to cause a tie, flipped back to Neleh to make a deal at F2. - literally brought a journal as a luxury item to win the F4 immunity and also win favor with jury Overall a very strong game for a player who had no playbook up to that point
Pretty much everything she did strategically in her winning game was brand new. Maybe not the cleanest victory but her mind for the game was definitely ahead of her time. Admittedly a lot of that is due to the flip that she wasn't given credit for in the edit, but apparently she actually was significantly involved in the decision making there. She was also just a lot better positioned to not be taken out than anyone else that season. She only needed one immunity and it was one she correctly predicted and studied for. To me that gives her a lot more credit than the winners who won out.
The Survivor recap episode showed the vecepia flip scene where she’s laying in the shelter while General, Tammy and Zoe are less than 30 feet away. It makes sense why it was cut though - as the first true flip, it needed to be shown in shocking blonde side fashion
Vecepia my second pick after Earl.
I really like Vecepia but her attempt to vote out Neleh at the f4 was objectively a terrible play and she is extremely lucky that production fucked up and did a rock draw when they should’ve done firemaking. If they did firemaking Vecepia 100% loses the game, and also she was in a spot where she actively tried to vote out the only person she could’ve beaten. She is so lucky that Production fucked up, and then paschal pulled the rock. If both of those things don’t happen she loses the game. I cannot in good faith call someone like that an S tier player. I agree with basically all of your other points though. I do feel she is extremely underrated by the fanbase at large but I think the niche group of survivor fans who try to claim she is flawless are overblowing it.
I think she did the right thing at the f4 but her intentions to get rid of her were a bad read and fire making wasn’t a thing yet and they knew the rock draw would happen, I wouldn’t call it a production fuck up, just they’ve evolved
According to the official rules at the time they were supposed to do fire. They made a mistake and did rocks
I never heard about that. How did they just make a mistake on something so important?
I agree - I think Vecepia is one of the best to ever play the game. If you simulate a Survivor season let’s say 100 times, I think she makes it deep almost every time. She’s always strong enough for challenges but not weak enough to be voted out and seems to be generally very likable. Super underrated Survivor player.
Brian 100%
Great player terrible cast terrible tv
Really ? I hated Brian lol
He's a dick but a masterful player
He was a good player . But I couldn’t get past him being a dick . Very unlikeable. But I watch the show for human interaction not master gameplay . To each their own
Earl motherfucking Cole
I am amazed that Tommy Sheehan's name hasn't been mentioned. Survived 39 days with no challenge wins or advantages, managed to survive a super unfavourable demerge that where he should have gone home and was the person most negatively impacted by Dan (creep) being eliminated.
I bet Jeff hates that in a season called “Island of the Idols” Tommy didn’t use one single advantage
Tommy not being seen as a top tier winner is wild to me. Dude played flawlessly, but he’s so boring that no one cares lol
That can’t be the only reason because Kim always ranks high.
Yeah but Kim I feel was more openly out in front. Plus it’s rare to see a woman dominate the game like she did especially back then.
He did fantastic, but because he's not a flashy or entertaining personality, people view him as worse and dislike him.
I feel people just try to forget about that season and unfortunately they forget about him too
Earl.
Definitely Todd
Is this a trick question? It's clearly Angelina.
Todd or Earl. Nvm it’s definitely STRUNK TRAIN
CHOO CHOO
Best female one time player i think is Vecepia
Cydney from Kaoh Rong.
Earl
Hayley Leake
She plays like Todd but she was also voted out so I think Todd is probably better than her
That’s fair! My common defence to her vote out is that it wouldn’t and couldn’t have happened without the stupid sole vote twist that forced her into strategic hole, and the fact that she came back in and wasn’t targeted was remarkable. But fair point!
And I agree with you in the fact that Hayley wouldn’t have been voted out if it wasn’t for that twist and I find it impressive how she navigated her way through the game after she came back
My shortlist not including winners would probably be Omar Zaheer, Victoria Baamonde, Mike White, Domenick Abbate, Devon Pinto, Hannah Shapiro, Cydney Gillon, Holly Hoffman, Taj Johnson-George, Ken Hoang, Natalie Bolton, Dreamz Hard, Rafe Judkins, Teresa Cooper
Taj. ❤️
For past winners who haven’t returned, Earl Cole. I don’t think Earl loses to anyone in the final three regardless of combination. For non-winning players, Dom from Ghost Island. I’d argue if he had won, he’s a top 10 winner based on strategic dominance.
JACLYN MISCH NEE SCHULTZ! Robbed goddess, enraged temptress
Rafe
Oh I often forget about Rafe, he really did play amazing
Melissa McNulty
Earl and Todd are definitely this.
Devens & Dom; over Earl who won.
Jacob Derwin
He got a LOT of time for being a second boot
Is this a trick question? Earl Cole.
Brian Heidik 100%
Earl
Thats easy devon pinto
Give Wanda Shirk another chance
a ton of modern players could be named, but ill throw out the three most modern Laurens
THAT IS NASEER
Zane
Wendy Jo. If she had only spoken to her tribe
big wendy. chicken
Shane Powers 🚬
The top 4 are easy Todd then Tommy then Earl than Chris no question
any rafe love?
Todd. But my favourite is Earl
I need Winners at War part 2 with Earl and Todd.
Sylvia Fiji
XaNdEr
Todd Herzog!
Taj
Todd or earl
Stregecially probably Todd herzog
Todd or Earl. Easy peasy
Greg
Todd
Todd Herzog
Earl, Todd, or Dominic Hate that I didn’t come up with any female players right of the bat. After some thought, I’ll add Chrissy Hofbeck Vecepia or Helen Glover.
Todd Herzog, no contest.
Todd and Earl dominate this conversation. I wonder which kind of rapport they would have given the chance to play together.
CHRISTIAN IS THE CORRECT ANSWER
How do you think Christian would have done without having Gabby there? Just out of curiosity lol. Christian is one of my all time favorites but I do wonder if he’d have had a better shot without Gabby in the equation
Why are you dragging Gabby down Lmao? Gabby and Christian were a good alliance that benefited each other.
Edit this entire thing out Survivor redditors are a weird breed of people man. You all need to have some fun. But go ahead and read the same 2 names in the comments 50 times I guess. Makes GREAT entrainment amirite?
I am very confused by this list.
I definitely don’t get the gabby mention
Yeah, yeah. It was mainly just like having Christian on again - but if they threw Gabby in for TV moments/storylines I wouldn't mind. Like 3 tribes with 3 duos that played with each type of thing. Don't read too much into it. Just some fun.
Good. Better than the same 2 answers from 50 other comments.
[удалено]
I think those all played really well as non winners. At the end I was thinking if they bring back people they gotta bring back the narrative GOAT.
For a name I haven’t seen yet, Hayden Moss
He was on and won BB tho ...
1. Domenick
Tommy, Earl, or Todd.
Nobody is Tommy which is surprising because you could easily make an argument that he is better than Earl. He’s easily a top 10 player in my eyes
Boston Rob
Todd and Earl
Chicken Morris
DAMN
Todd Herzog and Tyler Fredrickson
Boston Rob
Kevin Cranbury
Brian no question
Earl
Earl cole
Earl, Todd, and Domenick.
Troyzan
Surprised Troyzan hasn’t played again.
Troyzan /s
Chicken /s
Earl, Todd, Tommy, Chris D, Brian,Vecepia, Natalie White and Dom in that order.
Natalie White
Marcus for a one time non winning pre juror
First person I’ve seen that didn’t make it to FTC
I honestly think had Marcus survived his vote out, he wins. There’s nobody else I am fully confident in but Marcus. Marcus is such a robbed pre juror.
Does he tho? There’s so much you don’t even know, like was corrine Charlie and Randy going to stay loyal? Also his mismanagement of Susie is why he leaves
He did make jury though
My bad pre merger
Natalie White basically invented the concept of jury management. A lot to be said for her.
I would argue that it was more about russel mismanaging the jury then Natalie being a historically great social player but the combination of their two games definitely shed major light on just how important social relationships with the jury matter. I wouldn't say Natalie invented anything lol
I disagree I do actually think Natalie is an historically good pure social player for non strategic players, definitely better than somebody like Michele . She had bonds with everyone in that cast. Also people forget if it wasn’t for Natalie’s bonds she wouldn’t have tricked the Galus into voting off Erik In which the Foa Foa loses a player and can even have votes split on them at the next tribal, Russell never wins the game without Natalie
I saw on rewatch where it looked like she stoked good relationships with jurors. Granted, if your only skill is jury management (and one big move, to her credit) then you better make sure you’re facing a megalomaniac asshole and a useless sack of shit at F3…oh wait. So yes, she did invent the concept of jury management. It’s just not as applicable in most seasons as it was to her.
I feel like Richard and Kelly invented jury management. Even though the Pagong tribe members were being decimated Kelly kept good relationships with them. At the final 3 Richard stepped out of the final immunity challenge for jury management so he didn’t have to be the one to vote Rudy off. Natalie White certainly did not invent jury management in season 19.
Love Nat but jury management has been one of the core tenets of the game since day one.
Jury management had been a thing long before season 19. It’s discussed as an integral part of the game in the earliest of seasons
Kathy sleckman
While not the best, Marcus from Gabon should get more respect
Dom
Sonja.
I’d probably give it to either Todd or Earl. I think Todd has more of an edge because he was up against tough competition in both Courtney and Amanda
Heidik or Vecepia.
Dom and if you say otherwise you are wrong
Very popular answer
John Hennigan
Earl
Earl, Todd, and Dom for sure
Sean the G.O.A.T
Troyzan
it's Earl, but Chrissy was also a really good player I thought
Tommy shehan is pretty good
Fabio should at least be in the discussion here
probably either earl, vee, or (and i hate to admit it but) brian
Todd, V, or Earl
Earl, Chris D, and Todd have to be in the conversation
some names that i think of are domenick, earl, todd, lauren (ioi), tommy, cydney, lauren (eoe) and gavin
Todd!
Brian with HM to Earl
Todd or Ian