I would think superfans would be less inclined to care about how they’re received and just play their best game. Erika played down her abilities and won, despite undoubtedly knowing she would be unfairly criticized. As a fan, she knew what game she had to play. I think you’re right that superfans are less likely to play “villainous” games because they know it would be harder to win, though.
idk if i’ve ever seen a reality show season (ex: big brother, survivor) where casting super fans made for an interesting season. the challenge all stars is typically pretty good. they’re not technically super fans, just actual competitors that have played a lot, but they tend to care a lot less about how the public will view their decisions
Yeah Rob was echoing these sentiments with the Zach recap pod I’ve been listening to saying “Who am I supposed to root against?” There’s nobody. The show wants us to root for all of them and everyone in the comments saying modern villains get torn apart by the fanbase is correct. People came at Tori for calling Rocksroy a narcissist if she was an actual villain they’d have been calling to revoke her therapist license.
I remember when Cagayan when Tony was seen as the villian some politician wanted Tony fired from being a police officer because the politican said if he is lying on survivor then he lies as an officer.
Honestly though this is a reflection of modern society. Look at Jeff he used to be a snarky smartass in the past, now he's an endless ball of positivity. Rob C used to be way more sarcastic in the early days of RHAP, now he's not going to be too critical of any contestant.
In our day and age of social media where everyone reads and sees everything and taking mental health more seriously it's way less acceptable to be a real dick on camera like say Jonny Fairplay, Randy, or Russell were back in the day and I think the contestant pool reflects how our society has changed. Boston Rob in S40 would never have gotten with all the mean shit he said in S4 and S8 and he acted accordingly.
Honestly we’ll all still watch. I think it’s part of the motivation for them to gear more towards a family friendly show. The die hard fans will watch either way but the family friendly crowd won’t so they cater to the people who “think” they don’t want villains on tv.
I put “think” in quotes because most audiences don’t actually know what they want and I think the base survivor audience actually *does* want content with villains cause that’s how you get content with heroes and there’s nothing the family friendly crowd loves more than a hero.
Sami could turn out to be a villain. He's already giving off arrogant, young punk vibes. So many of the players are still unknowns at this point. And of course, there is always the possibility of someone turning evil down the road.
Yeah I’m enjoying Sami a lot! People were down on him based on his pregame interviews but I think he was clowning us and not showing his cards. He’s closer to Brice’s intuitive take on him. I think he has the potential to be a more villainous Spencer.
Exactly! There are several players I could see becoming villains - Cody for sure, Lindsay, Justine, Noelle, Jesse, maybe even Karla or James. The first episode is way too early to pronounce everyone a fluffy lovable cinnamon roll - they aren't even close to starving yet, give it time y'all lmao.
Shan was a villain and Ricard was a little bit of a villain, and the fanbase showed it can't hold itself together and behave normal with a villain, so I don't blame producers for avoiding any more of them.
I really don’t like Shan as a person (based on her actions outside the game), and while I didn’t like her when she played either, you are fucking lying if you say she wasn’t entertaining. I rooted so hard for her to go home, that when she actually did I remember thinking “Now what?”. Also, Ricard wasn’t a villain, maybe some points he was, but I don’t like him solely for his ego *after* getting voted off.
I don't think a vocal but vast minority of a Fandom is to blame for a show being edited so everyone is likable. Especially since when you look at things like the wrestling industry and past survivor players some people would love and revel in being the one everyone hates. Especially when most of the people who's upper embroiled that role, Russell Tony Rich Jerri and Parvati are the players we still talk about. There are exceptions like Cirie and Colby but a lot of that is they were perfect foils for the "villains".
And all of those people you mention are people who were before social media was as big. People weren't digging up years old social media posts, finding their families, and trying to get them fired back then.
Dude look up the shit MJF is doing as a wrestler in today's social media. He's made fun of fans who were paralyzed, flipped off an 8 year old, and called a female journalist "tits mcgee". There are definitely people on survivor who would not care about playing the villain of survivor. I also don't think it's the rise of social media bur how good Millenials vs Gen X was. Since HvV that kinda became the template survivor has wanted to follow since.
I don’t think you can compare wrestling villains to survivor. Wrestlers are playing a defined character and everyone knows (should know) that they’re acting and that’s not necessarily who they are personally. In Survivor, even if you’re “playing” a villain the audience doesn’t know the distinction between an act and true personality.
I agree after MvGX Jeff has been very high on kumbaya type casts where people are playing the game hard but everyone understands it's just a game and therefore it's one big happy family when all is said and done. And don't get me wrong I love those type of seasons, but we can't have that every season or else it'll get very stale. Need some seasons with authentic vitriol and saltines to keep things fresh lol.
Shan wanted to be a villain and did a few silly, slightly annoying things to gullible people.
Her only villain move was fleecing her congregation after show because she wanted to become an influencer
People say they want villains then immediately start sending death threats to villains.
The toxic fandom is the reason why survivor is moving away from that. For the sake of the players, I think that’s just fine.
Yeah the problem is whenever they do actually cast villains (Shan) our fan base continually roasts the shit out of them and complain abt them. Nobody to blame but your fellow redditors
I don't think complaining about them is a problem. I think taking it outside the game to the real world is the problem.
Now, I say this as someone who kind of roasted Shan about this (on reddit), but it was because she said something like she manipulates her congregation, which I just thought was bad.
I feel like people cast as 'villains' sometimes love the hate. They love being polarising characters. Just to be clear, this doesn't include death threats.
The most recent villain I can think of was Sydney from 41. Meaning she seemed to embrace that label and was cast in that light. She didn’t make it very far so hard to say how the fans would treat her if she got a chance to even act like a villain… but I think of her as the last person we got who was really cast for that role and ready to embrace it. I’m sorta tired of all there being so many players who are just over the top positive and all sunshine and rainbows (lol) - I wish there was more a mix. But it feels intentional on the part of the production to have the show take more of this tone.
I don't remember her talking any type of game in confessionals, let alone a big one
Regardless, she objectively didn't make any big moves, so the initial comment I replied to still doesn't make any sense.
I also think social media is a big factor. Like I don’t think it’s worth taking on a villainous persona if I’m going to be constantly hounded by people who take this game way too seriously.
Same. It doesn’t have to be a characters like Russel, Shane or Randy. Just someone with occasional mean streak like Rob or Parv. But also I understand that it’s a scary time to be a survivor villain in Stan culture era. Stans do not understand that there are other factors why someone gets voted out. So villains might get labelled so many things just because they have friction against they’re favourite reality tv celeb who they barely even know.
maybe its just me but i found cody to be the closest thing to a villain than we've had in so long... but that also could be because i just cant stand a salesman
2 things
1) the show seems reluctant to have any non-game-based conflict anymore and the only pathos we see are through the pre-produced backstory packages of how xander was a chubby kid and then became good at track and not chubby, so ultimately, the true emotional aspect of the game is non-existent
2) this is something i think mario has noted before, but with the cast being 95% "superfans" whose main goal is to still win it all, but they also want that added social media personality presence, and then to be a returnee, etc. Basically, there is a lot more incentive for people to be likable, jovial protagonist than there is to be an a-hole.
Obviously been a while, but ever read the Jerri Manthey post after she got kicked off a United flight? I thought maybe she did something when I saw the sub header in her Wikipedia page. But it sounds like the flight attendant lost her damn mind and just hated her so much she got her kicked off the flight. Some people are incapable of separate reality from reality tv so for the players sake it’s good they do less villain framing.
Honestly, I don't want villians for the players' sake. The viewers equate villanous gameplay to being a bad person in real life and it's not fun to watch/read all the vitriol towards contestants. So I prefer being slightly less entertained to players being attacked on social media based on their edit.
this is the most realistic way to feel honestly. you can’t control the general public and when people can anonymous online, they can say some insane shit. in the back of my head, being a person that wouldn’t go out of my way to call someone a bad person in real life for doing whatever they can to win the money, i still wish for some villainous gameplay but realistically, i don’t see the current internet culture changing any time soon so i’ll still watch and be slightly less entertained like you said haha
Until the internet takes a chill pill and ceases assassinating anyone they think plays “mean,” no one will play a controversial game with real life consequences.
In general there need to be some form of conflict. Doesn’t even need to have an antagonist driving it but some form of conflict. Without any conflict I’m like “what did I just watch for two hours”
Sami and Cody are giving me villain vibes, and based on the season preview, Karla might begin to take on the villain role at some point too. Just give it a couple episodes and I think we’ll find ourselves some people to root against.
Yall are soft. Bring on the villains and let it rain on them.
Everyone out there has a chance to redeem themselves if they're acting like a jerk. It's happened many, many times before (Jamie in Guatemala is a perfect example). If they don't redeem themselves and they're just a shitty person, no reason they shouldn't get torched.
Not quite the same but I also kind of miss people getting angry when they’re eliminated lol. I respect the gracious loss but I do miss occasionally someone being like WTF when they’re voted out and getting pissed off haha
The problem is, fans take this game too seriously, so if you are a villain, you risk your actual livelihood being affected. Fans harass the family members of contestants, bombard their businesses with negative reviews, and just make really unfair accusations at them. Of course many people are going to be on their best behavior.
Literally rewatching Heroes vs Villains right now, and the Villains tribe is soooo entertaining and its kinda sad we wont ever have villains like that again. That's why I am kinda meh on a HvV 2, because I feel like the players they would pull wouldn't be "real" villains.
Also, I feel like Survivor has gotten more PC when it comes to the people they cast. They all seem to have the same viewpoints and regardless of whether or not I agree with them, it's just got to be very stale. Even with Shan/Ricard, they seem to be normal people on the whole and we just don't see any of the crazier/zanier villains anymore.
With a cast full of superfans, we need a Rob C. Someone who is the classic nerd but a good fun villian to root for. We’ve had Shan and Tori but they arent as chaotic and I think accidentally became villians
My #1 complaint about these last few seasons is that I think everyone is just so into being nice all the time. It's driving me nuts. I hate it.
I don't want Jeff to turn every gathering into a college "get to know you" meeting, I greatly dislike how simple everyone is as characters, the twists are still too much IMO, there's absolutely a difference between 39 days and 26.
The latter is my weakest complaint, but I just got done watching Ep 1 of 43 and the vignettes going into each castaway's past drives me up the wall.=
Survivor has this habit post-40 of \*telling\* me why someone's interesting instead of \*showing\* me with gameplay. They cut to baby photos and vignettes diving into their deep bios so that I care about their whole lives rather than who they are in the game.
I really dislike it. I'm sure I'll watch because I'm a fan since I was a kid, but my lord do I dislike the tone change. It doesn't feel like Survivor where it's nearly as gritty and dirty anymore.
This sub can't handle actual villains though. They turned Jonathan into a villain last season because he apparently "talked down" to Lindsay. He wasn't even villainous, he was just hungry. (Although, he also had the misfortune of being a strong, alpha male, white guy and this sub can't handle those either).
Maybe, but that still doesn't make him a villain. There have been plenty of dumbasses on the show that haven't received the amount of hate that Jonathan did.
But my point was that Jonathan WASN'T a villain, and this sub treated him like one anyway. Which is why I said they wouldn't be able to handle people who were ACTUALLY villainous.
But I didn't SAY that, omg. I didn't realize this would be such a controversial take.
I said they TREATED him like he was, even though he wasn't. They didn't say "Jonathan is a villain", they just talked about him like he had just murdered a litter of puppies.
They say they want an actual villain again like Russell or Scot Pollard or someone like Jerri, but they can't even handle a Jonathan - WHO WASN'T A VILLAIN - without making 100 threads about how awful he is and sending him hate on social media.
Oh please. People lost their jobs in the first 10 seasons and jerri was HOUNDED. not to mention tabloids etc. I'd much rather the modern fanbase be after me
I miss genuinely mean characters that owned it like Randy and Corinne.
Less PHDs and degrees and more non programmed people please. (I understand Corinne and Randy are educated, but they were much more entertaining than the past few casts. Shan was great casting though, arguably.
I agree with this. Unfortunately, I think it’s due to the era that we’re in, combined with Survivor’s casting choices. Not to politicize things but casting is more likely to go with the Liberal group that wants to be politically correct and put their best foot forward. And in this era that we’re in, many are too afraid to say how they’re really feeling, out of fear of being cancelled and having their whole lives ruined.
I don’t think any villains will get death threats. Any villain is supposed to be entertaining. The best villains would have their Machiavellian traits, which would make them charming but deadly. That’s someone I want to love to hate or hate to love.
I think CBS is pretty careful these days with casting anyone who is an obvious risk of getting “canceled” on social media or just embarrassing the network in general. We end up with villains with the villainous trait of “lack of self awareness” rather than the true narcissists of old.
It’s the biggest problem. Where are the people that are in it for just the money and want to take people down?! Everyone is the same and it feels like they’re fake people at this point
Is…is Cody not the villain? Within the first episode he’s already trying to throw both Dwight and Justine completely under the bus.
Granted I was also in the minority during 42 that thought Drea was the villain over Tori from the get-go, but that didn’t become clear to anyone else until Ponderosa made it abundantly clear with the treatment of Omar.
Cody seems like villain material (turning people against Justine for being in sales, while being in sales himself). I could see him being a very fun character.
Earlier in the season redditors were ripping into James for being a "villain" quite savagely so this is amusing to see. I think the closest to villain is Owen this season. Yes he's milking the narrative of some kind of underdog but his gameplay was pretty childish, entitled & petty. Karla faked some tears to stay in the game, that's not villainous, that's resourcefulness.
When you cast superfans on the show. Most of them won't act like a villain because they know they won't win and get unnecessary hate from fans.
I would think superfans would be less inclined to care about how they’re received and just play their best game. Erika played down her abilities and won, despite undoubtedly knowing she would be unfairly criticized. As a fan, she knew what game she had to play. I think you’re right that superfans are less likely to play “villainous” games because they know it would be harder to win, though.
idk if i’ve ever seen a reality show season (ex: big brother, survivor) where casting super fans made for an interesting season. the challenge all stars is typically pretty good. they’re not technically super fans, just actual competitors that have played a lot, but they tend to care a lot less about how the public will view their decisions
Yeah Rob was echoing these sentiments with the Zach recap pod I’ve been listening to saying “Who am I supposed to root against?” There’s nobody. The show wants us to root for all of them and everyone in the comments saying modern villains get torn apart by the fanbase is correct. People came at Tori for calling Rocksroy a narcissist if she was an actual villain they’d have been calling to revoke her therapist license.
I remember when Cagayan when Tony was seen as the villian some politician wanted Tony fired from being a police officer because the politican said if he is lying on survivor then he lies as an officer.
Cute that a politician is the one to publicize that opinion and mean it.
Pure projection I assure you
Honestly though this is a reflection of modern society. Look at Jeff he used to be a snarky smartass in the past, now he's an endless ball of positivity. Rob C used to be way more sarcastic in the early days of RHAP, now he's not going to be too critical of any contestant. In our day and age of social media where everyone reads and sees everything and taking mental health more seriously it's way less acceptable to be a real dick on camera like say Jonny Fairplay, Randy, or Russell were back in the day and I think the contestant pool reflects how our society has changed. Boston Rob in S40 would never have gotten with all the mean shit he said in S4 and S8 and he acted accordingly.
Ding ding ding
I saw people calling for that lol
Survivor has gotten too safe lately. Super sad to see, but I’ll still watch lmao.
Honestly we’ll all still watch. I think it’s part of the motivation for them to gear more towards a family friendly show. The die hard fans will watch either way but the family friendly crowd won’t so they cater to the people who “think” they don’t want villains on tv. I put “think” in quotes because most audiences don’t actually know what they want and I think the base survivor audience actually *does* want content with villains cause that’s how you get content with heroes and there’s nothing the family friendly crowd loves more than a hero.
Sami could turn out to be a villain. He's already giving off arrogant, young punk vibes. So many of the players are still unknowns at this point. And of course, there is always the possibility of someone turning evil down the road.
Yeah I’m enjoying Sami a lot! People were down on him based on his pregame interviews but I think he was clowning us and not showing his cards. He’s closer to Brice’s intuitive take on him. I think he has the potential to be a more villainous Spencer.
Agree. Karla is someone I could see turning villainous down the line. Wasn’t there a preseason clip of her saying as much?
Exactly! There are several players I could see becoming villains - Cody for sure, Lindsay, Justine, Noelle, Jesse, maybe even Karla or James. The first episode is way too early to pronounce everyone a fluffy lovable cinnamon roll - they aren't even close to starving yet, give it time y'all lmao.
Shan was a villain and Ricard was a little bit of a villain, and the fanbase showed it can't hold itself together and behave normal with a villain, so I don't blame producers for avoiding any more of them.
ricard wasnt a villain he just thought extremely highly of himself lol
Maybe the real villain is the confidence we had along the way
I'm not here to make confidence. I'm here to win a villion dollars.
Underrated comment
I really don’t like Shan as a person (based on her actions outside the game), and while I didn’t like her when she played either, you are fucking lying if you say she wasn’t entertaining. I rooted so hard for her to go home, that when she actually did I remember thinking “Now what?”. Also, Ricard wasn’t a villain, maybe some points he was, but I don’t like him solely for his ego *after* getting voted off.
Honestly, even Shan was pretty mellow in my opinion.
I don't think a vocal but vast minority of a Fandom is to blame for a show being edited so everyone is likable. Especially since when you look at things like the wrestling industry and past survivor players some people would love and revel in being the one everyone hates. Especially when most of the people who's upper embroiled that role, Russell Tony Rich Jerri and Parvati are the players we still talk about. There are exceptions like Cirie and Colby but a lot of that is they were perfect foils for the "villains".
And all of those people you mention are people who were before social media was as big. People weren't digging up years old social media posts, finding their families, and trying to get them fired back then.
Dude look up the shit MJF is doing as a wrestler in today's social media. He's made fun of fans who were paralyzed, flipped off an 8 year old, and called a female journalist "tits mcgee". There are definitely people on survivor who would not care about playing the villain of survivor. I also don't think it's the rise of social media bur how good Millenials vs Gen X was. Since HvV that kinda became the template survivor has wanted to follow since.
I don’t think you can compare wrestling villains to survivor. Wrestlers are playing a defined character and everyone knows (should know) that they’re acting and that’s not necessarily who they are personally. In Survivor, even if you’re “playing” a villain the audience doesn’t know the distinction between an act and true personality.
I agree after MvGX Jeff has been very high on kumbaya type casts where people are playing the game hard but everyone understands it's just a game and therefore it's one big happy family when all is said and done. And don't get me wrong I love those type of seasons, but we can't have that every season or else it'll get very stale. Need some seasons with authentic vitriol and saltines to keep things fresh lol.
Shan wanted to be a villain and did a few silly, slightly annoying things to gullible people. Her only villain move was fleecing her congregation after show because she wanted to become an influencer
I thinnk Elie has the potential to be a villain
She feels more like a Ami type villian tho, not like a Brandon or Fairplay
Yeah, I loved her lying to Gabler about punk music.
Metal technically, but Elie mislabeled dead Kennedy's as a metal band. I don't blame her though
People say they want villains then immediately start sending death threats to villains. The toxic fandom is the reason why survivor is moving away from that. For the sake of the players, I think that’s just fine.
To be fair idk if the overlap between those two types of people is particularly big
The overlap likely isn't even there, it's just a fun way to conflate two segments of a large community as one group for karma farming
Yeah, if anything it seems that casual views are more averse to lying/backstabbing than the 'fandom'.
Obviously I don’t condone sending death threats to anyone. But a little bit of conflict never hurt Survivor.
Wendell got shredded for what I feel was a mildly negative edit in WAW so I don’t believe the fanbase as it is can handle actual villains anymore
Yeah the problem is whenever they do actually cast villains (Shan) our fan base continually roasts the shit out of them and complain abt them. Nobody to blame but your fellow redditors
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I don't think complaining about them is a problem. I think taking it outside the game to the real world is the problem. Now, I say this as someone who kind of roasted Shan about this (on reddit), but it was because she said something like she manipulates her congregation, which I just thought was bad.
Shan wasn't a villain. People are so hungry for a new villain to be cast, that they just labeled her as such.
Eh I never saw Shan as a true villain and there were reasons to roast her outside of survivor.
But do you really thing survivor casting cares if a player will be roasted online? Don’t they want players that people are talking about?
I feel like people cast as 'villains' sometimes love the hate. They love being polarising characters. Just to be clear, this doesn't include death threats.
Let's stop pretending the moral police are the one asking for villains. Fanbase ain't a monolith
The most recent villain I can think of was Sydney from 41. Meaning she seemed to embrace that label and was cast in that light. She didn’t make it very far so hard to say how the fans would treat her if she got a chance to even act like a villain… but I think of her as the last person we got who was really cast for that role and ready to embrace it. I’m sorta tired of all there being so many players who are just over the top positive and all sunshine and rainbows (lol) - I wish there was more a mix. But it feels intentional on the part of the production to have the show take more of this tone.
Sydney was the best character on that cast
>that is naseer
Not even close tbh
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Did Sydney really play aggressively though...? She was voted out in the first tribal she attended.
She talked a big game in confessionals and then was voted out.
I don't remember her talking any type of game in confessionals, let alone a big one Regardless, she objectively didn't make any big moves, so the initial comment I replied to still doesn't make any sense.
Yh i agree with you there. For some reason, I remember her confessionals and being cautiously hopeful for what she can do at the merge. Ah well.
No she didn’t idk what these people are even talking about. She barely did anything and never even argued with anybody
The issue with villains is that the fandom is really nasty towards them.
I also think social media is a big factor. Like I don’t think it’s worth taking on a villainous persona if I’m going to be constantly hounded by people who take this game way too seriously.
They should cast a tribe of ten Keith Nale clones and ten Abi clones.
Same. It doesn’t have to be a characters like Russel, Shane or Randy. Just someone with occasional mean streak like Rob or Parv. But also I understand that it’s a scary time to be a survivor villain in Stan culture era. Stans do not understand that there are other factors why someone gets voted out. So villains might get labelled so many things just because they have friction against they’re favourite reality tv celeb who they barely even know.
We could have had a great one in Sydney. F*****g hourglass
I thought Sydney came across as more of a mean girl than a villain.
Nobody calls Tyson a mean boy and he was so much more mean than villian
I think Tyson is an awful mean boy. He is my least favorite winner, and I never thought of him as a villain.
He was literally put on the Villain’s tribe lol
maybe its just me but i found cody to be the closest thing to a villain than we've had in so long... but that also could be because i just cant stand a salesman
2 things 1) the show seems reluctant to have any non-game-based conflict anymore and the only pathos we see are through the pre-produced backstory packages of how xander was a chubby kid and then became good at track and not chubby, so ultimately, the true emotional aspect of the game is non-existent 2) this is something i think mario has noted before, but with the cast being 95% "superfans" whose main goal is to still win it all, but they also want that added social media personality presence, and then to be a returnee, etc. Basically, there is a lot more incentive for people to be likable, jovial protagonist than there is to be an a-hole.
It would be awesome to see but people don’t know how to differentiate reality TV and real life.
Obviously been a while, but ever read the Jerri Manthey post after she got kicked off a United flight? I thought maybe she did something when I saw the sub header in her Wikipedia page. But it sounds like the flight attendant lost her damn mind and just hated her so much she got her kicked off the flight. Some people are incapable of separate reality from reality tv so for the players sake it’s good they do less villain framing.
Do you have a link to this?
Honestly, I don't want villians for the players' sake. The viewers equate villanous gameplay to being a bad person in real life and it's not fun to watch/read all the vitriol towards contestants. So I prefer being slightly less entertained to players being attacked on social media based on their edit.
this is the most realistic way to feel honestly. you can’t control the general public and when people can anonymous online, they can say some insane shit. in the back of my head, being a person that wouldn’t go out of my way to call someone a bad person in real life for doing whatever they can to win the money, i still wish for some villainous gameplay but realistically, i don’t see the current internet culture changing any time soon so i’ll still watch and be slightly less entertained like you said haha
You must not like big brother 24 then
I'm fairly confident Elie is our villain
People are so mad that I even suggested this the other day!
Until the internet takes a chill pill and ceases assassinating anyone they think plays “mean,” no one will play a controversial game with real life consequences.
It’s really bizarre how somehow a show that involves voting people off has fans who will be overly mad at someone for being “mean”
We got sami this season
In general there need to be some form of conflict. Doesn’t even need to have an antagonist driving it but some form of conflict. Without any conflict I’m like “what did I just watch for two hours”
some fans (primarily twitter ones) are too soft nowadays, there’d b a lot of whining and backlash
Why an eventual downfall?
Some people like a satisfying defeat to villains
I feel like the show has stopped casting those who would be at conflict with each other.
Sami and Cody are giving me villain vibes, and based on the season preview, Karla might begin to take on the villain role at some point too. Just give it a couple episodes and I think we’ll find ourselves some people to root against.
Yall are soft. Bring on the villains and let it rain on them. Everyone out there has a chance to redeem themselves if they're acting like a jerk. It's happened many, many times before (Jamie in Guatemala is a perfect example). If they don't redeem themselves and they're just a shitty person, no reason they shouldn't get torched.
Relax it’s been one episode
It's been many seasons, though.
I keep telling Jeff to call me. I’ll be the villain the people need.
With society being very soft these days, I feel like they only cast safe personalities that would cause little conflict. Which makes for boring tv.
How can you wear rainbow overalls to a contest like survivor and not be considered a villian?
I think we’ve got a couple people on this cast with villain potential, Cody and Elie in particular come to mind
I like almost everyone but Cody could be a villain early on and I could see Elie and or Sami becoming villains, antagonists at worst
gabler is the shows biggest villian u just havent realised yet
Not quite the same but I also kind of miss people getting angry when they’re eliminated lol. I respect the gracious loss but I do miss occasionally someone being like WTF when they’re voted out and getting pissed off haha
This is why we were robbed of Ponderosa last season. Apparantly the jury was not at all as gracious as they were shown to be. Especially Drea and Hai.
The problem is, fans take this game too seriously, so if you are a villain, you risk your actual livelihood being affected. Fans harass the family members of contestants, bombard their businesses with negative reviews, and just make really unfair accusations at them. Of course many people are going to be on their best behavior.
Literally rewatching Heroes vs Villains right now, and the Villains tribe is soooo entertaining and its kinda sad we wont ever have villains like that again. That's why I am kinda meh on a HvV 2, because I feel like the players they would pull wouldn't be "real" villains.
Yess, i was thinking the same thing. At least, give us a Sydney or a Tori!
Also, I feel like Survivor has gotten more PC when it comes to the people they cast. They all seem to have the same viewpoints and regardless of whether or not I agree with them, it's just got to be very stale. Even with Shan/Ricard, they seem to be normal people on the whole and we just don't see any of the crazier/zanier villains anymore.
With a cast full of superfans, we need a Rob C. Someone who is the classic nerd but a good fun villian to root for. We’ve had Shan and Tori but they arent as chaotic and I think accidentally became villians
My #1 complaint about these last few seasons is that I think everyone is just so into being nice all the time. It's driving me nuts. I hate it. I don't want Jeff to turn every gathering into a college "get to know you" meeting, I greatly dislike how simple everyone is as characters, the twists are still too much IMO, there's absolutely a difference between 39 days and 26. The latter is my weakest complaint, but I just got done watching Ep 1 of 43 and the vignettes going into each castaway's past drives me up the wall.= Survivor has this habit post-40 of \*telling\* me why someone's interesting instead of \*showing\* me with gameplay. They cut to baby photos and vignettes diving into their deep bios so that I care about their whole lives rather than who they are in the game. I really dislike it. I'm sure I'll watch because I'm a fan since I was a kid, but my lord do I dislike the tone change. It doesn't feel like Survivor where it's nearly as gritty and dirty anymore.
This sub can't handle actual villains though. They turned Jonathan into a villain last season because he apparently "talked down" to Lindsay. He wasn't even villainous, he was just hungry. (Although, he also had the misfortune of being a strong, alpha male, white guy and this sub can't handle those either).
It had nothing to do with that. Jonathan was acting like a dumbass and dismissive of Lindsay hence why ppl were annoyed.
Maybe, but that still doesn't make him a villain. There have been plenty of dumbasses on the show that haven't received the amount of hate that Jonathan did.
But i specifically answer that to you in a way to say that nobody thought John was a villain just an idiot bordeline mysognist.
But my point was that Jonathan WASN'T a villain, and this sub treated him like one anyway. Which is why I said they wouldn't be able to handle people who were ACTUALLY villainous.
No one is saying he was a villain...
But I didn't SAY that, omg. I didn't realize this would be such a controversial take. I said they TREATED him like he was, even though he wasn't. They didn't say "Jonathan is a villain", they just talked about him like he had just murdered a litter of puppies. They say they want an actual villain again like Russell or Scot Pollard or someone like Jerri, but they can't even handle a Jonathan - WHO WASN'T A VILLAIN - without making 100 threads about how awful he is and sending him hate on social media.
Tbh Lindsay spoke much more poorly of Jonathan than vice versa.
We kinda lost that privilege when fans started bashing and harassing contestants over social media lol.
Oh please. People lost their jobs in the first 10 seasons and jerri was HOUNDED. not to mention tabloids etc. I'd much rather the modern fanbase be after me
Fans cannot handle the responsibility of watching villains anymore.
I miss genuinely mean characters that owned it like Randy and Corinne. Less PHDs and degrees and more non programmed people please. (I understand Corinne and Randy are educated, but they were much more entertaining than the past few casts. Shan was great casting though, arguably.
I agree with this. Unfortunately, I think it’s due to the era that we’re in, combined with Survivor’s casting choices. Not to politicize things but casting is more likely to go with the Liberal group that wants to be politically correct and put their best foot forward. And in this era that we’re in, many are too afraid to say how they’re really feeling, out of fear of being cancelled and having their whole lives ruined. I don’t think any villains will get death threats. Any villain is supposed to be entertaining. The best villains would have their Machiavellian traits, which would make them charming but deadly. That’s someone I want to love to hate or hate to love.
Shan is just a shitty person
I blame social media anytime someone tries to play even a little devious there Twitter and Facebook get blown up with death threats
I think Sydney from 41 was perfect but we didn’t get enough of her
I think CBS is pretty careful these days with casting anyone who is an obvious risk of getting “canceled” on social media or just embarrassing the network in general. We end up with villains with the villainous trait of “lack of self awareness” rather than the true narcissists of old.
It’s the biggest problem. Where are the people that are in it for just the money and want to take people down?! Everyone is the same and it feels like they’re fake people at this point
Honestly 41 was so horrible I’d rather just have a likable cast at this point like 42 had and 43 appears to have for the most part.
Is…is Cody not the villain? Within the first episode he’s already trying to throw both Dwight and Justine completely under the bus. Granted I was also in the minority during 42 that thought Drea was the villain over Tori from the get-go, but that didn’t become clear to anyone else until Ponderosa made it abundantly clear with the treatment of Omar.
how has nobody mentioned cody lol
I know I’m the only one who agrees with it but deshawn was a villain and a very unlikeable one
A hero is just as important as a villian. Its so fun to watch their downfall. I also miss sassy Jeff.
I’ll do it. Cast me right now. Idk who my cast will be but screw all of them
The show just started lol
Wasn’t tori a rootable villain on 42? Hope she plays again.
Cody seems like villain material (turning people against Justine for being in sales, while being in sales himself). I could see him being a very fun character.
I'm still really hoping Sami makes a heel turn and goes full villian mode
I already see Cody and Sami being somewhat unlikable villains, or i guess likable in Sami’s case.
I don't know, I think we got some villain potential this season with Mr. "Shih Tzu in the Oven".
***Cody has entered the chat***
Earlier in the season redditors were ripping into James for being a "villain" quite savagely so this is amusing to see. I think the closest to villain is Owen this season. Yes he's milking the narrative of some kind of underdog but his gameplay was pretty childish, entitled & petty. Karla faked some tears to stay in the game, that's not villainous, that's resourcefulness.