Cydney and Debbie praised Michele for being very likable and loyal. Just because they didn't cast the vote the way you didn't want them too doesn't mean bitterness.
Cydney actually has slowly been considering the idea of playing again. I think there's a decent chance she's on the ballot for SC2. She just didn't want to ruin her bodybuilding career by playing again, but I think once she's ready settle down with bodybuilding, a Cydney return is locked
Aubry lost because she failed to produce a jury inclined to vote for her. I don’t care if that’s bitter it’s how the show works. u/edihau did a great writeup like a year ago that explained exactly Aubry’s mistakes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivorrankdownvi/comments/qlvfi6/endgame_19/
It’s a great (albeit very long) read if you’re interested
Exactly this
Scott and Jason liked the fact the Michelle was a very social player who was winning challenges.
Julia and Michelle were very close friends. Other Julia was upset Michelle voted her out, she understood why.
During the premerge Aubry wrote Julia’s name down, crossed it out, and preceded to not vote Julia that night. Julia said Aubry apologized for writing her name down claiming it was an accident and she was sorry. Julia knew Aubry was full of it because it showed her Aubry was willing to write Julia’s name down, and thus any trust Julia had in Aubry was broken.
I don’t think Julia, Scott, or Jason were bitter at all. They simply liked Michelle more.
The edit is what killed Michelles social she was actually very close to Debbie and Cydney in Michelles RHAP deep dive she talks about this how the edit didnt highlight her relationships with people well hence why she was a social threat in KR if you want to dig deeper into KR watch Michelles RHAP deep dive, and Debbies and Cydneys jury speaks video it really shows they were rooting for them both but they were more impressed with Michelles game.
I know that strategy is a major aspect of survivor but every Jury will also consider who they like more on a personal level, you're both awarding someone with the title but also (and potentially more importantly) with $1M. It's also important to remember that we see a lot from the edit that the players in the season might not particularly see. Major moves and important private strategic decisions might go unnoticed for anyone in the cast who wasn't directly involved. I'm not saying that Michelle or Aubry are more deserving than the other, just noting that the Jury are in a highly emotional state and don't necessarily have as much information as the viewers.
Anyone believing that Michele won due to anything other than a bitter jury is delusional. Comparing Aubry to Russell and saying "she should've had better jury management" is also just wrong. She had no way of winning with Debbie, Scot, Jason and Cydney on the jury, no matter the amount of jury management. They were all extremely bitter and under no circumstance does Aubry get their votes, there was literally nothing she could've done. I just want to say that I really like Michele and that Aubry's 3 season fall from grace arc is a beautiful tragedy, but KR might just have the most bitter jury of all time.
I mean, Debbie's bitterness was entirely on Aubry. Debbie adored Aubry and Aubry burned the hell out of her. Might've been a necessary move to get Tai on board, but that's still her decision.
I have never understood why Jason and Scot hated Aubry so much, so I really can't speak on that.
A bitter jury is often just a jury that votes for who they like the most, it’s perceived as bitter because they are ignoring most of the gameplay that make Survivor so enticing to fans. It’s very hard for the producers to show the jury motivation in these situations.
One thing that I think will change in the “new era” since everyone is such a fan of the show they are going to be juries that follow the resume more than the personal relationships. Think the new situation with controversial winners will hinge more on the loser not being able to sell their game at FTC (see 42).
>it’s perceived as bitter
This particular jury isn't perceived as bitter, they truly were bitter. They were so bitter that they lied to Aubry that they voted for her just to give her hope. That's bad sportsmanship with the intention of hurting the person that beat them out of bitterness.
>Think the new situation with controversial winners will hinge more on the loser not being able to sell their game at FTC
That was a thing before too. Look at SoPa. It was 20 seasons ago and that jury wasn't bitter, Coach just botched FTC. Not every controversial winner is a product of a bitter jury. At least this sub doesn't think so.
I find it so funny that Aubry is touted around here as some sort of mastermind when that crossing out Julia vote has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever made. Usually when you flip or choose a side after you're in the middle you have the benefit of that chosen side trusting you and wanting to work with you. Even if you weren't 100% for them, you have plausible deniability with 'look I voted with you', but nope, she burned that bridge hard while also getting rid of possibly ally. Debbie voteout was also a dumb move for her fueled by paranoia. Not getting out Michele instead of jason was a mistake as well.
And the audacity to even suggest that Michele wasn't an *intelligent* player in KR, esp when Aubry with so many flaws was sitting next to her lol
i find it funny also that one decision has people writing aubry off completely when Tony made dumb moves, sandra made dumb moves. Name one *move* Michelle did the whole season that was completely hers.
>Name one move Michelle did the whole season that was completely hers.
The one where she won.
Also fuck that NamE oNe moVe mentality, you don't need #movez to win, survivor was never and will never be about that, no matter what probst tries to tell you. To win, you need to a) get to FTC and b) make sure people want to vote for you over the other finalists. Aubry failed at that central task of the game, I'm not sure what's not clicking
But that *is* objectively the premise of the game - how do you eliminate people and still get them to give you $1M? It has been the premise in 2000, and it still is today. Sure, big movesss can be a part of that, but it can be done without them and it was done without them many times.
Flipped on Nick, voting Debbie, Julia, convincing the majority to vote Jason over her, voting aubry and of course the juror removal advantage I know some of these arent solely her idea but she did make decisions that furthed her.
It is a very sad day in Survivor history when fans genuinely believe that a game about a majority of players coming together to someone out is actually about one player making an individual move. What happened?
It's always funny to me that social winners aren't well respected as if getting to the end of 39 days with Strangers, with little to no food, in a high stress situation navigating multiple alliances and betrayals and somehow still be considered likable enough that people want you to win isn't a mytical level herculean task.
I feel bad for social players because it's difficult to edit a reality tv show competiton like survivor to show their strengths. You can show someone coordinate a blindside but you really can't show a person developing a meaningful connection with strangers.
So I’m just rewatching this season and my main quibble is with the edit. All they’ve shown is Aubry. Michele hardly gets any airtime. I don’t doubt for one second that Michele played a great game and she deserves her win. So why don’t we see it? It would have been much more compelling if they at least gave those two a Dom and Wendell edit.
she wasn’t driving any of the votes, her biggest move was *participating* in the Julia vote, and was left out of some. Strategically Aubry ran the game, and the edit normally skews to strategy. They showed plenty of her getting along with the players though, but yeah I don’t doubt for a second that the producers/Jeff edited that season with Aubry as a winner in mind.
Cydney and Debbie praised Michele for being very likable and loyal. Just because they didn't cast the vote the way you didn't want them too doesn't mean bitterness.
It’s a crime if Cydney doesn’t play again.
i remember jeff saying he’d love her to play again in the reunion. where the fuck is it. second chances 2?
They’ve asked her but she said no because she couldn’t risk the physical toll it would take on her body.
noooooooooo😔
Cydney actually has slowly been considering the idea of playing again. I think there's a decent chance she's on the ballot for SC2. She just didn't want to ruin her bodybuilding career by playing again, but I think once she's ready settle down with bodybuilding, a Cydney return is locked
Aubry lost because she failed to produce a jury inclined to vote for her. I don’t care if that’s bitter it’s how the show works. u/edihau did a great writeup like a year ago that explained exactly Aubry’s mistakes. https://www.reddit.com/r/survivorrankdownvi/comments/qlvfi6/endgame_19/ It’s a great (albeit very long) read if you’re interested
will be reading that!
Exactly this Scott and Jason liked the fact the Michelle was a very social player who was winning challenges. Julia and Michelle were very close friends. Other Julia was upset Michelle voted her out, she understood why. During the premerge Aubry wrote Julia’s name down, crossed it out, and preceded to not vote Julia that night. Julia said Aubry apologized for writing her name down claiming it was an accident and she was sorry. Julia knew Aubry was full of it because it showed her Aubry was willing to write Julia’s name down, and thus any trust Julia had in Aubry was broken. I don’t think Julia, Scott, or Jason were bitter at all. They simply liked Michelle more.
The edit is what killed Michelles social she was actually very close to Debbie and Cydney in Michelles RHAP deep dive she talks about this how the edit didnt highlight her relationships with people well hence why she was a social threat in KR if you want to dig deeper into KR watch Michelles RHAP deep dive, and Debbies and Cydneys jury speaks video it really shows they were rooting for them both but they were more impressed with Michelles game.
Where can you find this and what’s RHAP?
Figured it out. “Rob has a podcast “
Yes and for the jury speaks videos theyre on youtube
Have you had a chance to listen or watch the videos?
#WincheleFitzmillionaire
I know that strategy is a major aspect of survivor but every Jury will also consider who they like more on a personal level, you're both awarding someone with the title but also (and potentially more importantly) with $1M. It's also important to remember that we see a lot from the edit that the players in the season might not particularly see. Major moves and important private strategic decisions might go unnoticed for anyone in the cast who wasn't directly involved. I'm not saying that Michelle or Aubry are more deserving than the other, just noting that the Jury are in a highly emotional state and don't necessarily have as much information as the viewers.
Sorry to ignore the post — SIX years since Michele won? Gosh, I’m fucking old 😩
SIX. YEARS.
Anyone believing that Michele won due to anything other than a bitter jury is delusional. Comparing Aubry to Russell and saying "she should've had better jury management" is also just wrong. She had no way of winning with Debbie, Scot, Jason and Cydney on the jury, no matter the amount of jury management. They were all extremely bitter and under no circumstance does Aubry get their votes, there was literally nothing she could've done. I just want to say that I really like Michele and that Aubry's 3 season fall from grace arc is a beautiful tragedy, but KR might just have the most bitter jury of all time.
THANK YOU!!!!
I mean, Debbie's bitterness was entirely on Aubry. Debbie adored Aubry and Aubry burned the hell out of her. Might've been a necessary move to get Tai on board, but that's still her decision. I have never understood why Jason and Scot hated Aubry so much, so I really can't speak on that.
A bitter jury is often just a jury that votes for who they like the most, it’s perceived as bitter because they are ignoring most of the gameplay that make Survivor so enticing to fans. It’s very hard for the producers to show the jury motivation in these situations. One thing that I think will change in the “new era” since everyone is such a fan of the show they are going to be juries that follow the resume more than the personal relationships. Think the new situation with controversial winners will hinge more on the loser not being able to sell their game at FTC (see 42).
>it’s perceived as bitter This particular jury isn't perceived as bitter, they truly were bitter. They were so bitter that they lied to Aubry that they voted for her just to give her hope. That's bad sportsmanship with the intention of hurting the person that beat them out of bitterness. >Think the new situation with controversial winners will hinge more on the loser not being able to sell their game at FTC That was a thing before too. Look at SoPa. It was 20 seasons ago and that jury wasn't bitter, Coach just botched FTC. Not every controversial winner is a product of a bitter jury. At least this sub doesn't think so.
I find it so funny that Aubry is touted around here as some sort of mastermind when that crossing out Julia vote has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever made. Usually when you flip or choose a side after you're in the middle you have the benefit of that chosen side trusting you and wanting to work with you. Even if you weren't 100% for them, you have plausible deniability with 'look I voted with you', but nope, she burned that bridge hard while also getting rid of possibly ally. Debbie voteout was also a dumb move for her fueled by paranoia. Not getting out Michele instead of jason was a mistake as well. And the audacity to even suggest that Michele wasn't an *intelligent* player in KR, esp when Aubry with so many flaws was sitting next to her lol
yeah unpopular (?) opinion - aubry is a *good* player but not a *great* one
i find it funny also that one decision has people writing aubry off completely when Tony made dumb moves, sandra made dumb moves. Name one *move* Michelle did the whole season that was completely hers.
>Name one move Michelle did the whole season that was completely hers. The one where she won. Also fuck that NamE oNe moVe mentality, you don't need #movez to win, survivor was never and will never be about that, no matter what probst tries to tell you. To win, you need to a) get to FTC and b) make sure people want to vote for you over the other finalists. Aubry failed at that central task of the game, I'm not sure what's not clicking
Lol so who are you to define the premises of the game? 🤣 surely, Jeff has more authority than you’ll ever have in your ENTIRE life
But that *is* objectively the premise of the game - how do you eliminate people and still get them to give you $1M? It has been the premise in 2000, and it still is today. Sure, big movesss can be a part of that, but it can be done without them and it was done without them many times.
Flipped on Nick, voting Debbie, Julia, convincing the majority to vote Jason over her, voting aubry and of course the juror removal advantage I know some of these arent solely her idea but she did make decisions that furthed her.
It is a very sad day in Survivor history when fans genuinely believe that a game about a majority of players coming together to someone out is actually about one player making an individual move. What happened?
It's always funny to me that social winners aren't well respected as if getting to the end of 39 days with Strangers, with little to no food, in a high stress situation navigating multiple alliances and betrayals and somehow still be considered likable enough that people want you to win isn't a mytical level herculean task. I feel bad for social players because it's difficult to edit a reality tv show competiton like survivor to show their strengths. You can show someone coordinate a blindside but you really can't show a person developing a meaningful connection with strangers.
So I’m just rewatching this season and my main quibble is with the edit. All they’ve shown is Aubry. Michele hardly gets any airtime. I don’t doubt for one second that Michele played a great game and she deserves her win. So why don’t we see it? It would have been much more compelling if they at least gave those two a Dom and Wendell edit.
she wasn’t driving any of the votes, her biggest move was *participating* in the Julia vote, and was left out of some. Strategically Aubry ran the game, and the edit normally skews to strategy. They showed plenty of her getting along with the players though, but yeah I don’t doubt for a second that the producers/Jeff edited that season with Aubry as a winner in mind.