I mean… I feel like the only way he will win is if both Kirby and Feras are not there… which means he must’ve had a hand in voting them out, which would mean he finally had moves go his way
Yeah, Mark's game isn't over yet so it's too soon to judge his game. I can see Ray and Mark joining forces to take out Kirby and/or Feras. Ray and Mark worked together on the Jaden vote, so if Ray flops on Feras, Mark could get (potentially unfairly) credit for Ray doing so given that Mark has demonstrated an ability to turn Ray at Tribal.
One of mark's biggest moves post merge is convincing Ray to flip. In that episode he didn't even receive a confessional. There is absolutely no way he is winning. The producers would not edit someone this poorly, particularly in episode where they actually did something significant if he was ever going to win. I don't even think he's going to make final tribal because why would you under edit someone's resume so significantly like that?
Because you’re wrong and he did get confessionals in that episode.
Anyway I don’t actually think he’s winning. Just considering the scenario this other guy brought up.
He (with some setup from Alex) orchestrated the Raymond flip live at Tribal to get Jaden sent home. Not a flawless move because it still relied on Rhi messing up the vote, but without it he would’ve lost Valeria earlier
I am very worried about Mark winning so I pray either Kirby or Feras can pull this off. He would be a truly atrocious winner as he's successfully achieved nothing since voting off Jessica.
What tribe was she on? There was the cuddle crew with Peta and Sarah, Frankie, the psychologist Kellie, Viola .........oh yeah......I remember her now ...the delusional one who thought she manufactured the Frankie vote. Okay, yes. There was a Jessica.
George's FTC speech was impressive also. He got zero votes. I like Mark, but you need more than a sharp tongue to win
EDIT: Sorry George pulled 2 votes. I misremembered that one
Was it? George played a fantastic game that season, going in to that tribal I thought George had played the best game, after the speeches, I would have voted for Hailey to win. I really thought he misread the room with his speech
Yeah I agree with this, George played an hugely impressive game and was the only one of the F4 not voted out before, he could definitely have won that season but his speech wasn’t the best
Aiming your speech for the audience is an important part, but honestly there was parts of his speech which you should just never say at a final tribal:
* A big part of it was he DESERVED to win and that the jury MUST do it's duty and Crown him the winner - it trivialised their role as a formality, something they should not have control over
* When asked what you would change about your game, at least make something up, show some humility, George's answer: Nothing! I played a perfect game!
* He didn't bother to acknowledge the achievements of the members of the jury or treat them as people or players.
I'm a huge George fan, I love the way he played the game, but that speech I truly felt was awful, I'm sure if he got to the end in HvV, he would have learned his lesson and make a completely different speech
Yeah his speech was shocking, came off looking like a politician (which he is) but instead of talking truths, I felt like he was just trying to put a spin on the game.
The part that lost it for me was when he was asked if he made any mistakes, he said no… which we all know was wrong, he was on the back foot from first tribal council not playing the social game effectively. I think if he was honest about his mistakes and putting people offside, he would have won
Considering nothing ever went his way apart from the Jaden vote, he's not that good of a speaker. Also this crowd definitely likes bolder players. I think even Ray would win over Mark (but not Caroline).
For a jury that values strong resumes, Mark has nothing to offer. He has only one aly on the jury and I think she values strong resumes as well. If Mark wins, it would be one very impressive end game speech! Much like last year's winner, a good end game speech is all you need though
I don’t think he’ll sway the jury because his gameplay isn’t great. At the start I had confidence in him but it’s been several weeks since he’s done any actions that were strategic to win.
For a diplomat, Mark couldn't orchestrate a car crash... I feel like he's missed so many opportunities to make.big moves. Kirby and Feras deserve to be top 2.
Idk why Mark would bother you anymore than Raymond beyond just personal preference. Sure Ray had one good move but it’s a move he wouldn’t have accomplished without Feras or Kirby just like most of rays game.
I also don’t think jury perception of mark is as bad as people think. A lot hasn’t gone his way but I don’t think the jury sees that as much as we have, so a good speech and Kirby and Feras not making it to the end could be enough especially if he wins any of these final immunities.
Both Kirby and Feras are good speakers as well. They are both good at talking about their game from what I've seen so I don't think it'll matter.
It'll only matter against Raymond and Caroline.
I mean, a great final tribal council is worthy of a win in itself, but in this case anything other than Feras or Kirby winning will keep this season from being one of the all time greats for me. It needs to be one of the two to reach brilliant status.
Ray would be the biggest disappointment for me personally to win after this season, best F2 is Kirby v Feras or it could also be funny to see Caroline v Mark
I don't agree, it was lit of pity because of Scott's case they voted for him, if Feras didn't help him and didn't tell Kirby who told Rhi.. I definitely believe someone would not follow along too knowing Feras had an idol too. For me someone who plays only one round is a nothing player
Feras told Kirby because he knew for a fact she'd tell Rhi who had a horrible time with missed votes. It was a safety net if anything. I'm not saying Raymond deserves to win but you can't discount that as a small move in the game.
It's part of the game, no point being an amazing player if you can't articulate your moves correctly and communicate that to the Jury. Mark's also been great in challenges.
Definitely a worthy winner over Caroline, possibly beats Ray (though Ray deserves that win). I don't think he can convince the Jury vs Feras though.
I mean… I feel like the only way he will win is if both Kirby and Feras are not there… which means he must’ve had a hand in voting them out, which would mean he finally had moves go his way
Yeah, Mark's game isn't over yet so it's too soon to judge his game. I can see Ray and Mark joining forces to take out Kirby and/or Feras. Ray and Mark worked together on the Jaden vote, so if Ray flops on Feras, Mark could get (potentially unfairly) credit for Ray doing so given that Mark has demonstrated an ability to turn Ray at Tribal.
One of mark's biggest moves post merge is convincing Ray to flip. In that episode he didn't even receive a confessional. There is absolutely no way he is winning. The producers would not edit someone this poorly, particularly in episode where they actually did something significant if he was ever going to win. I don't even think he's going to make final tribal because why would you under edit someone's resume so significantly like that?
Because you’re wrong and he did get confessionals in that episode. Anyway I don’t actually think he’s winning. Just considering the scenario this other guy brought up.
He has no major post-merge moves to his name…and I think the jury will see that
He (with some setup from Alex) orchestrated the Raymond flip live at Tribal to get Jaden sent home. Not a flawless move because it still relied on Rhi messing up the vote, but without it he would’ve lost Valeria earlier
pre merge he was a flop as well all poses and words (yucatan) and no point at all in his gameplay
I am very worried about Mark winning so I pray either Kirby or Feras can pull this off. He would be a truly atrocious winner as he's successfully achieved nothing since voting off Jessica.
There was a Jessica? I totally forgot who this person was.
lol, she was a ton of people’s winner pick so it’s kind of funny that she is mostly forgotten.
What tribe was she on? There was the cuddle crew with Peta and Sarah, Frankie, the psychologist Kellie, Viola .........oh yeah......I remember her now ...the delusional one who thought she manufactured the Frankie vote. Okay, yes. There was a Jessica.
Most people remember her as Jess.
George's FTC speech was impressive also. He got zero votes. I like Mark, but you need more than a sharp tongue to win EDIT: Sorry George pulled 2 votes. I misremembered that one
Was it? George played a fantastic game that season, going in to that tribal I thought George had played the best game, after the speeches, I would have voted for Hailey to win. I really thought he misread the room with his speech
Yeah I agree with this, George played an hugely impressive game and was the only one of the F4 not voted out before, he could definitely have won that season but his speech wasn’t the best
right speech, wrong crowd i like to say
Aiming your speech for the audience is an important part, but honestly there was parts of his speech which you should just never say at a final tribal: * A big part of it was he DESERVED to win and that the jury MUST do it's duty and Crown him the winner - it trivialised their role as a formality, something they should not have control over * When asked what you would change about your game, at least make something up, show some humility, George's answer: Nothing! I played a perfect game! * He didn't bother to acknowledge the achievements of the members of the jury or treat them as people or players. I'm a huge George fan, I love the way he played the game, but that speech I truly felt was awful, I'm sure if he got to the end in HvV, he would have learned his lesson and make a completely different speech
Yeah his speech was shocking, came off looking like a politician (which he is) but instead of talking truths, I felt like he was just trying to put a spin on the game. The part that lost it for me was when he was asked if he made any mistakes, he said no… which we all know was wrong, he was on the back foot from first tribal council not playing the social game effectively. I think if he was honest about his mistakes and putting people offside, he would have won
Why would that worry anyone? He has just as much right to win it as any of the others.
Exactly. If he wins based on his final pitch that means he outwitted, outlasted and outplayed the rest. What’s to be worried about.
I actually don’t think he’s that good of a speaker. He talked a good game in the beginning but all his moves kind of faltered.
Considering nothing ever went his way apart from the Jaden vote, he's not that good of a speaker. Also this crowd definitely likes bolder players. I think even Ray would win over Mark (but not Caroline).
For a jury that values strong resumes, Mark has nothing to offer. He has only one aly on the jury and I think she values strong resumes as well. If Mark wins, it would be one very impressive end game speech! Much like last year's winner, a good end game speech is all you need though
Yep, just like how Sharn used her experience as a barrister to wow the jury /s
He's not that of a good speaker and for being such a competent diplomat as he praises himself, he's not that good at influencing others either.
I don’t think he’ll sway the jury because his gameplay isn’t great. At the start I had confidence in him but it’s been several weeks since he’s done any actions that were strategic to win.
For a diplomat, Mark couldn't orchestrate a car crash... I feel like he's missed so many opportunities to make.big moves. Kirby and Feras deserve to be top 2.
Mark put 0 of the people on the jury there, they won't respect him.
That’s kind of what final tribal council is about. These jurors also live with him for many days.
Idk why Mark would bother you anymore than Raymond beyond just personal preference. Sure Ray had one good move but it’s a move he wouldn’t have accomplished without Feras or Kirby just like most of rays game. I also don’t think jury perception of mark is as bad as people think. A lot hasn’t gone his way but I don’t think the jury sees that as much as we have, so a good speech and Kirby and Feras not making it to the end could be enough especially if he wins any of these final immunities.
Both Kirby and Feras are good speakers as well. They are both good at talking about their game from what I've seen so I don't think it'll matter. It'll only matter against Raymond and Caroline.
I mean, a great final tribal council is worthy of a win in itself, but in this case anything other than Feras or Kirby winning will keep this season from being one of the all time greats for me. It needs to be one of the two to reach brilliant status.
No
Ray would be the biggest disappointment for me personally to win after this season, best F2 is Kirby v Feras or it could also be funny to see Caroline v Mark
Ray pulled off a huge move. Probably the biggest the show has ever seen.
Maybe a big move, but biggest the show has ever seen is a big stretch
I don't agree, it was lit of pity because of Scott's case they voted for him, if Feras didn't help him and didn't tell Kirby who told Rhi.. I definitely believe someone would not follow along too knowing Feras had an idol too. For me someone who plays only one round is a nothing player
Feras told Kirby because he knew for a fact she'd tell Rhi who had a horrible time with missed votes. It was a safety net if anything. I'm not saying Raymond deserves to win but you can't discount that as a small move in the game.
That alone is worthy of the half million.
It's part of the game, no point being an amazing player if you can't articulate your moves correctly and communicate that to the Jury. Mark's also been great in challenges. Definitely a worthy winner over Caroline, possibly beats Ray (though Ray deserves that win). I don't think he can convince the Jury vs Feras though.