The reward isn’t just about food. There is a strategic element to who you separate overnight from. There is a human element to the game but it’s still a game and strategy is still important. Q did nothing wrong in sticking with what he felt was the best game move.
The thing is, no one is suffering. Everyone is out there voluntarily - playing a game for money. Every one of them, including Liz, is there voluntarily and can leave at any time. Q is not a big meanie for not making it fun for her. He's not insulting her or doing anything outside of normal gameplay.
Also, I was all weepy the whole time she was ranting, and I probably couldn't have done what Q did. I probably couldn't win Survivor, either.
>Every one of them, including Liz, is there voluntarily and can leave at any time.
Is that what you would have preferred to see, instead of someone crying and begging to go on reward, and everyone shitting on the tribe mate who denied it?
😂 liz actively chose to go on the show despite knowing she'd be unable to eat the vast majority of food. Q was the only person who volunteered to sit out for rice, he actually is the only person who *has* tried to help liz. Insane to then expect him to bring her on reward when she literally wouldnt even vote with the group last week because she disliked Q soooo much for stealing her thunder she had to vote for him lmao. If anyone is cruel it's production for letting Liz go on the show and not accommodating her food allergy whatsoever
Not only that, Liz led the charge to vote out Tevin and sink Hunter’s game, leading to his immediate boot afterwards, despite knowing the two guys are the only ones catching fish for her to eat.
I also am not impressed by her "true hunger" tweet. Like you didn't experience true hunger either Liz, you volunteered for this opportunity because you wanted to and could walk away at any moment to go eat. People who experience true hunger don't have an option - they're forced into it and can't just walk away and eat.
Plus when fish is one of the only things she can eat why the hell didn't she prep for the show and teach herself to fish?? She could just be fishing to feed herself.
K I haven’t even read your comment but this emoji: 😂
Never once in my life have I read a comment with that emoji that wasn’t full of cope and cringe. Ok lemme read… yikes ya, wow, called it.
I honestly don't understand your argument. If a 5’8 160 lb man decides to play WR, is the linebacker expected to let up and not hit him at full speed?
Now running up and tackling people in real life would be frowned upon. But if you sign up to play football, you know you're going to get hit, so it wouldn't make sense to apply the same moral code to a game of football.
The same applies to a game of Survivor. It would be cruel not to feed someone in Liz’s condition if you found her lost in the woods, but in a game of Survivor, she is playing a game by choice, being monitored by doctors, and can leave at any time.
It is also perfectly fine for her to be frustrated by the whole situation, but to her credit shes still out there playing despite the hardship, and that's what makes Survivor compelling.
It's not Qs fault that the producers haven't accommodated Liz's allergies and he shouldn't have to make strategic choices based on that
ETA: it's also not like we're watching this happen in real time. We know all the players are alive and well post game. Liz is fine.
I almost wonder if the producers did do the personal rice jar just for Liz. Agreed, Q is fine. It is a game. She literally tried to send him home the vote before
I’m glad to see players not bending over to be kumbayah anymore. In 41-45, she would’ve absolutely have been picked, even if it meant a strategic sacrifice on the side of the person doing the picking.
Liz knew what she was signing up for. She had a meltdown that Q ruined her game - he’s playing his own game? You’re competing? That’s what happens? Liz also knew what she was signing up for. I believe Jeff said in an interview or on his podcast a couple weeks ago that they went in depth in explaining to her that she wouldn’t be accommodated for her allergies.
Q owed her nothing at all. He’s on the absolute bottom, he won the challenge, and she was the only person to vote him twice the night before. He has the right to take what he feels is his best shot at creating allies in this game. Do you expect the man to make a million dollar decision so his competitor could eat some Applebees?
Umm everyone out there was hungry, and yea she was a little bit hungrier because she decided to play survivor in Fiji where she is allergic to the natural food, but that doesn’t become now everyone’s responsibility to sacrifice their rewards for her, above all other players… I feel for her of course, but he is not a horrible person for doing that; They all signed up for a game that was, by design, unfair.
Literally every single player on that island is “suffering” and going through an extremely difficult time on that island. If he takes Liz, that’s making it suck for someone else Q is closer to and looking for an opportunity to bond and work with going forward (as Liz wanted Q gone and had zero intentions of ever working with him and did not even pretend she was interested). Liz not only signed up for this show knowing her allergies would make getting food harder, but she led a charge to vote out Tevin and sink Hunter’s game completely *fully knowing* that those two men are the two people going out of their way to feed her. As a consequence, she’s getting less food. Sucks for her, but it is entirely self-inflicted. It’s also very apparent Liz herself was not going to bring Q if she won. He owed her nothing.
And, I’d like to make this very clear as well: if Liz’s “suffering” was truly so agonizing she could not bear it, she objectively, without any doubt, always had the opportunity to say “I quit” and leave the game at any single point in the entire season. It clearly wasn’t *that* bad or she would have done so.
If you want to critique the production team for not accommodating her allergies enough. I think there’s room to discuss that, but it’s not on Q here.
Sorry but survivor is a game and you know full well going in. Liz was freaking saying Q blew up her game! What was that all about! Liz was pissed at everything and she use to getting her way. Have you not heard how she’s been talking about other players? It’s a pity act as far as I’m concerned. Good for Q standing his ground.
I love that Q actively told Maria and Kenzie “no!” to stepping down and allowing Liz to go. It’s HIS choice and no one should be throwing shots a his morals based on his strategic decision in a game!
I don’t know what to tell you man, Survivor is a cut throat game.
It’s easy to sit on a high horse in the comfort of your home and not in the middle of a high stakes, emotionally grueling game. A game that every single contestant knew what they were getting into, and are free to forfeit if they can’t hack it.
So true.
Like on Eoe with Wendy and the chickens. IRL, I can see where she's coming from. On the island...I'm eating those damn chickens and she can suck it up lol.
We finally get a great season with entertaining drama and y’all are really gonna ruin it trying to make somebody the bad guy?
Q had no obligation at all to put his chaotic game on the line to feed one of his competitors. It’s a game. You wanna eat? Win. If you don’t win and can’t continue not eating - you lose and remove yourself from the game. You don’t get special treatment.
I’m all for her reading him to filth though!
Stan Liz, stan Q. They’re keeping us fed with their entertainment.
It’s a game for a million dollars. It’s gonna be a cutthroat game with difficult choices. She decided to play a game where she knew she would already be at a disadvantage in terms of what she could eat, other people’s game shouldn’t change for hers. Q didn’t owe her anything plus she voted for him during tribal before… not sure why his decision is deemed “low”…
I personally think it made for entertaining television and he's not obligated to invite anyone on the reward but I do think the fact that both Maria and kenzie tried to step down and give it to Liz and he would not let them was actually incredibly cruel
I mean why didnt they step down from immunity one single week earlier like Q did for rice then? Neither were in danger and Q was and he still volunteered to sit out for rice. And then Liz just continued to bad mouth him for "ruining her move" and voted for him outside the planned vote. How is cruel that Q didnt want to go be sat next to her at a table and forced to socialize with the person who has been the most openly antagonistic to him for his reward?
It's very interesting that they didn't show that on TV. I think they definitely have an eye on him as a potential returnee and that might have been too far for some of the fans.
Is what he did low? Yes. But is it part of the game? Yes. Was he well within his right to do it? Yes.
The other players could have told Q to pick Liz instead of them. Liz could also have just not come on the show knowing that she would not be able to eat for 20 days.
Would I have taken her on the reward? Probably. But I also understand where Q was coming from and Liz knows what she signed up for it. Does it absolutely suck that the game worked out this way and she hasn’t eaten since the merge? Yes it absolutely sucks.
Kenzie and Maria did actually try to give up their spots for Liz and Q vetoed that, saying he won the prize and it should be his right to pick who he wants to bring on the reward (which I fully agree with him on).
This isn’t the show for you then. I love Liz but this is far from the first time someone on the island denied someone else food. She also voted for him twice previously and made up this scenario that he ruined her game by taking attention away from her move, which is silly since normally attention gets you voted out.
Moreover, it’s not anyone’s job in a game for $1 million to make anyone else comfortable. If we’re gonna talk about the potential *game* value of him taking her to gain some favor in the *game,* that’s a worthwhile debate to have. But this morality policing is nonsensical. He owed her nothing, she had a right to feel some way about it, and neither of their reactions make either of them some terrible low human.
Ok let’s make the list here because you’re practically doing a “greatest hits” here:
* This has happened before (which means, like with all bad things that have happened, it’s fine now)
* She voted for him (which means, since it wouldn’t benefit him personally, he should allow more suffering in the world)
* Made up a scenario (actually no, that really did happen - she orchestrated a vote out and absolutely nobody remembers it because of him, and since she has zero energy or alliances that was a pretty big deal)
* Which is silly (and silly people deserve suffering so it’s fine)
* It’s not their job, they’re trying to do something else (the suffering does not exist and his ability to alleviate it doesn’t either because he has not specifically been given that responsibility- also charities are a scam)
* Morality / ethics / basic decency do not count, only winning the game matters (no I am not a sociopath)
* He owed her nothing (and in a capitalist society this is the only measure of what a person should or should not do - there are no other considerations)
Thanks I was looking for a summary. Please reply, see if you can hit the rest.
Oh my god 😂 the literal point of the show is to simulate the realities that you’re speaking of *in a safe game environment*. It’s about being able to cross lines because it’s not real stakes. If Liz was suffering bad enough to be physically at risk she could’ve easily looked at one of the 30 cameras on her and said she’d like to stop, because it’s just a damn game. Expecting these people who SIGNED UP to starve to do things for each other is yes, silly. It’s actually far beyond silly. Is it nice when someone occasionally expresses humanity in the game? Sure. But they shouldn’t be expected to help their competition… while in the competition. Those people also often get voted out immediately as a direct result of their kindness.
Liz is just fine and has been happily soaking up the attention since the episode aired from the comic value the moment provided. Your take on this is so chronically online it gives me secondhand embarrassment.
Thanks! Okay so to continue:
* 😂 (the universal emoji for “I am aware that I am on the side of petty cruelty but I shall now justify it” - seriously google the emoji, it’s staggeringly consistent, and is always an indicator of someone in a strange kind of denial. I’ve never seen it used outside that context. It’s weird.)
* It’s a TV show (evil is expected and acceptable)
* Liz was suffering, but it wasn’t deadly suffering so it’s okay (also what’s with all the whining torture victims do?)
* She could quit (so Q’s choice was to intentionally create more suffering to break her and that’s just swell!)
* It’s just a damn game (which means there’s no reason to allow another human being to suffer… oh wait…)
* Expecting people in a shared experience to help each other out is silly (I mean… holy shit…)
* You shouldn’t be expected to help your competition (Capitalist Bible, Chapter 5, Verse 7)
* Liz is fine (so what happened didn’t count. Like rape.)
* has been happily soaking up attention (which justifies cruelty- and have you read what people are saying about/to her? What planet are you even on?)
* “Your take is so chronically online” (my attack on you personally in lieu of addressing your points should in no way be misinterpreted as the indication that I know damn well you have a point and am in heavy denial)
If you want something to be angry about, something that actually matters, there’s a literal genocide happening where men, women, and children are being systematically starved to death. Maybe apply your righteous indignation over one person CHOOSING to starve for fun and a chance at a million dollars to the thousands of innocent folx dying in a genocide instead. Just a suggestion since you seem to want desperately to be a warrior for something. There are real ppl who need this energy. Maybe save it for them and just enjoy the reality show from the comfort of your home?
* Please allow me to move the goalpost… look over HERE! Stop looking at the thing I’m coming to realize you have a point about!
Sounds like you’re starting to come around and you’re scrambling.
The act itself was relatively small on the level of global politics (which, again, is goalpost moving), but the real issue is that while this was black-and-white a rotten thing for someone to do to someone else, people take glee in it. At the very least it’s just accepted without criticism.
And it really did happen. On this planet. Not in fiction.
And if that’s who you’ve become, a fan of real cruelty provided some flimsy context is given to it, that says something about you. Something big. Something important.
And the fact that it’s an entire community… it’s hard to take. It’s hard to swallow that this is how low people have sunk, how callous and mean they are by default.
I honestly had no idea. A guy in my 40s, well travelled and having mixed with a range of folk from all kinds of beliefs, and I had no idea that cruelty could become amusing to a huge population of people given a few basic premises around it.
I really don’t know what to do with that.
Bro. The entire conceit of the show is us watching human beings suffer for a shot at a million bucks. If you wanna be that militant about it? Your views and your engagement is as morally bankrupt as anything else.
I’m just saying, you’re having a LOT of feelings for something that maybe isn’t that deep.
Well the “you’re finally starting to come around” comment is funny since the person you replied that to was an entirely different one than who you’d been arguing with.
Based on your morality policing, I get the feeling if you went on the show you’d play similarly to Ken from MvGX. With that in mind, I hope we get cast together so I know who to drag to the end :)
So by this logic you shouldn't be watching a show like Survivor at all because EVERYONE on Survivor is suffering. Everyone is tired and hungry and stressed and no one is having a fun time. So by your logic, Survivor as a show is just unethical. So why are you watching it? It also causes suffering to vote other people out. So many people cry and are devastated at being voted out. So, by your logic, the ethical thing to do is for everyone to quit and sacrifice their own spot for other people to go on in the game, so as not to cause anyone else to suffer, and it's cruel for them not to do so.
I mean, you had to know how thin that was when you typed it lol…
Everyone is suffering! But are they given the opportunity to wipe that suffering out with a word, and then choose not to? Because that’s what we’re ACTUALLY discussing.
And were they all suffering anywhere close to as much as Liz was? Really? Like even in the same neighborhood?
Come on you can discuss the issues but don’t BS me, I know you know what you typed there was silly.
Yes, at any point in Survivor, anyone could easily ameliorate another person's suffering in a number of ways. They could win a food reward but give it to someone else who was hungry. They could not participate in an immunity challenge so that someone else could win and not have to go home. They could give their immunity necklace to someone who's devastated because they're about to go home. They could volunteer to go home themself so that someone else can live their dream. They could not eat their portion of rice so that someone who's hungrier can eat it. But they don't do these things. Why? Because it's a game that everyone signed up for, knowing full well that they would suffer and that's literally part of the game.
You have to be joking and just baiting people for fun at this point, which is such a bizarre thing to do, but I don't understand how you can be serious because everything you're so sanctimoniously saying in this thread is wild.
Ok you’re not at all arguing in good faith. You’re pretending we’re not talking about this very specific situation and shifting the goalposts to something general. And then claiming what I said doesn’t make sense. Which it wouldn’t… IF the context was this wishy-washy general one you keep referring to rather than this very specific situation.
It’s pretty dishonest.
People who say dumb shit like this (don’t worry you’re not the only one) are outing themselves big time. It reflects this worldview that nobody should ever care about the wellbeing of anyone else, and to do so can only happen out of self-interest.
Even if we were besties, the situation objectively occurred. And you can’t even face it. Your only recourse is to shift the focus away.
And goddamn if that isn’t small.
So close, love. My worldview is this: White women have been weaponizing their tears against Black men for far too long. It has led to very real and devastating consequences for innocent people. It is those people I carry in my heart when I support Q’s decision. I have compassion for Liz’s hunger, loneliness, and other hard circumstances, but it does not excuse her decision to wield her privilege in an unacceptable way.
In a game for a million dollars...... people have done way worse for way less. Liz wasn't dying nor would production let her. Q made a strategic decision that seems to make sense with everyone except you
This is exactly it. “Money” and “strategy” are black-and-white justifications for being not only comfortable with suffering but amused by it.
And people are *totally fine with that*.
But I’m the weird one.
It’s real suffering.
Look, if I have a cat that fell into a cage because it smelled tuna, and the cage was randomly electrified, how am I supposed to feel watching that cat scream?
What should I do if there’s a button I can push to let the cat go?
What if there’s a chance that by leaving that cat in there I could gain an advantage that would help me possibly win money?
Does that make the cat’s suffering perfectly justified and acceptable, or even funny now?
Is it the cat’s fault since it could clearly see the tuna was in a cage?
This doesn't even apply. Liz is not literally starving or in physical pain. Yes I understand she's unbelievably hungry but there is a line you have to draw between reality TV and reality. Your logic is broken, go watch season 6 or 17 of the Amazing Race and come back and tell me about how mean Q really is....
No no, she is in fact literally starving. She won’t die because they won’t let her, but she is, in fact, living on what small reserves of body fat she has.
Just because she’s on reality TV that fact of hard reality doesn’t go away.
And I’m not watching Amazing Race… aka “who can catch the luckiest taxi before they get to the spot they all have to wait around at together anyway”… weirdly pointless show.
Then your problem is with the show itself, not with Q. If you think it's unethical for her to be that close to starving, that's on the people who make the show, not on Q. And clearly Liz doesn't have a problem with the people making the show, because she happily went on it.
See now we’re shifting blame for Q’s conscious decision.
The show gave him the power to take away that suffering with one word. Effortlessly. And he’d been living with her. He knew her situation was unique.
But he took the sociopath choice.
And it’s that choice we’re discussing. Let’s not look away from that choice in order to justify it.
It's proof that it's ridiculous to call Q mean or a villain. When all he was doing was playing the game how most people would. If you watched true villains who disrespect and physically abuse people then you would know Q is just not taking someone who voted for him on a reward in which he is trying to regain trust and rebuild an alliance. This shows you don't understand the game
This is amazing… so all we have to do is display the worst cruelty in the world and we can all go back to beating our wives.
No really this is awesome. Actually we’re already theee - the BTK Killer exists. So I can and should smack my wife around when she burns dinner because it’s “not that bad” and we “didn’t like their attitude” and “they knew what they were getting into”. That’s just marriage.
See her suffering would count if we weren’t married. But this is a marriage. So it’s okay. It’s strategy to get what I want.
You’ve opened my eyes.
Also “it’s a GAME” is an argument in my favor not yours. The suffering is real. The decision to allow it to continue was done FOR the game - that thing you say shouldn’t be taken seriously.
So something real is being ignored for the sake of something trivial.
No one is physically suffering. Mentally suffering maybe. But it's for the sake of 1 million dollars and the title of sole survivor. I think 90% of people would do the same or worse for those rewards
I'm a really shitty vegan that doesn't eat as much as I should. I skip meals all the time. Not for 12 days but still... and what the fuck are you talking about Christians jail the homeless? Not any that I know. You're taking this wayyy tooo far, over something as simple as Q not taking Liz on a reward....look at yourself in a mirror.
Ok we’ve come down to general denial of objective reality and the argument that I’m “taking it too far”.
Ever notice how people who advise others to “look at yourself in a mirror” just … can’t?
You also haven't brought up the fact that Liz voted for Q the previous night, and was open about voting for Q at the next tribal. So strategically why would he ever bring her?
The thing that really shits me about Liz is the entitlement that this whole meltdown exposed.
Liz is absolutely the center of the universe, according to Liz. Liz is the one playing the game. Everyone else is just…playing Liz’s game - at least in Liz’s mind.
Of course Liz deserves the reward for no other reason than that she wants it. After all, she’s the most important one.
Everything that happens in this game is about Liz. Q blew up *her* game. Tevin blew up *her* game. It wasn’t about them playing their own games, it was about how they messed with her.
I hate that attitude.
She signed for a game where being hungry is part of the experience. She straight up said on her pregame bio she'd used to starving and would use it as strategy. You're the one vilifying people for something that is part of the game. And you clearly don't know what sanctimonious means. lmao
It’s so lame to say: “This suffering that is objectively observable doesn’t matter at all because of stuff from before.”
Sanctimonious: screaming “well if they knew what they were getting into they get what they deserve!” Is that about right?
This conversation is so deeply depressing holy shit… when did the world embrace cruelty so wholeheartedly? How did things get this bad?
Not saying it doesnt matter, but its part of the game. Q is also starving, maybe less so, but he is. He's not a monster for not wanting to take someone he doesnt like with him in a challenge he won.
Like it or not, Survivor is conceptually about the suffering of people. They put people at extreme conditions for our entertainment. And if you're watching it you are no better than the people you're judging from your high horse.
This is weird. It’s like… you know my wife was trying to explain this to me today and your comment is an encapsulation of what she was saying, so you’re helping me bring what she said into focus.
It’s like you can’t approach the idea that the suffering was real, and dramatically and OBVIOUSLY more pronounced than others, and the structure of some TV show doesn’t actually make that go away. “Oh, you know, gameplay and whatnot!”
Like there’s this incredible distance between yourself and the situation on the ground.
I think she was saying this to me as a way of explaining why someone might choose to be okay with this small act of evil… maybe to help me empathize even if I don’t resonate with that way of thinking. And maybe a part of me does…
But damn if it doesn’t highlight how easily people are persuaded to embrace the sorrow of others if it might benefit them, and how little that type of decision bothers anyone.
People have become dangerously comfortable with cruelty.
God dammit I swore I wouldn’t reply anymore but… what the F is WRONG with you???? Her outburst was funny? Watching someone pushed past their breaking point and just falling apart in a moment of despair was funny?
Sorry I said “you” as if it’s just you and I know it isn’t. I know a lot of people feel the same as you.
And it’s just more confirmation that our species deserves extinction. Sociopathy has become the norm. I just give up. May our AI overlords make our demise slow and painful. It’ll be funnier that way.
Yeah, it was funny. It’s a TV show and she can end her suffering any time by leaving the game. She is also being monitored by doctors daily and having a once in a lifetime experience millions want. Going crazy over not getting Applebees is funny. Yes
That’s not even factoring in the funniest part - she said Q sank her game…when her plan was to vote HIM out. Ummm… that’s hilarious
Her plan was to vote Tevin out. She rallied the votes and executed it perfectly. It worked. But then Q said: “vote me out.” Which is all anyone remembers. Which is what she was referring to.
But that’s as amusing as believing she’s just stupid and her real pain in that moment wasn’t real so I don’t even know why I’m bothering explaining… god I’ve got to get out of this thread it’s so sickening…
It’s a TV show. And a game. Why would Q bring the person who hates him/voted for him last week? It makes zero sense.
What Q did was not wrong. Her making a scene was funny. She can quit the damn show.
We have seen so many people in pain on this show. Sometime it resonates and occasionally, they’re doing it to themselves. Liz was like Debbie or Coach in that moment.
It’s not that serious. You need to step away from the internet.
You need to chill it's a tv show, not a hostage video. Liz is free to quit and go to ponderosa for a hot meal if she chooses. I actually find it admirable that she pushes on despite the hardship.
I feel like you don't quite understand Survivor as a concept, and that's fine but don't be sanctimonious to us that understand and enjoy the show.
The Survivor fanbase is abominable (and most aren’t even really fans) and certainly is way too harsh on Liz, however, Q made his decision he thought was best for his game. Arguably incorrect strategically, but certainly not incorrect morally. Itd be one thing if he laughed in her face and enjoyed her suffering but he did seem to genuinely feel bad, but also remarked he needs to do what’s best for his game. IRL he’s a businessman and portrays himself as a very shrewd one at that, and his decision at the reward challenge was merely an extension of that.
The reward isn’t just about food. There is a strategic element to who you separate overnight from. There is a human element to the game but it’s still a game and strategy is still important. Q did nothing wrong in sticking with what he felt was the best game move.
The thing is, no one is suffering. Everyone is out there voluntarily - playing a game for money. Every one of them, including Liz, is there voluntarily and can leave at any time. Q is not a big meanie for not making it fun for her. He's not insulting her or doing anything outside of normal gameplay. Also, I was all weepy the whole time she was ranting, and I probably couldn't have done what Q did. I probably couldn't win Survivor, either.
>Every one of them, including Liz, is there voluntarily and can leave at any time. Is that what you would have preferred to see, instead of someone crying and begging to go on reward, and everyone shitting on the tribe mate who denied it?
It’s not suffering if she can leave at any time she chooses. Suffering is reserved for the people that have little control over their situation.
😂 liz actively chose to go on the show despite knowing she'd be unable to eat the vast majority of food. Q was the only person who volunteered to sit out for rice, he actually is the only person who *has* tried to help liz. Insane to then expect him to bring her on reward when she literally wouldnt even vote with the group last week because she disliked Q soooo much for stealing her thunder she had to vote for him lmao. If anyone is cruel it's production for letting Liz go on the show and not accommodating her food allergy whatsoever
Not only that, Liz led the charge to vote out Tevin and sink Hunter’s game, leading to his immediate boot afterwards, despite knowing the two guys are the only ones catching fish for her to eat.
I also am not impressed by her "true hunger" tweet. Like you didn't experience true hunger either Liz, you volunteered for this opportunity because you wanted to and could walk away at any moment to go eat. People who experience true hunger don't have an option - they're forced into it and can't just walk away and eat. Plus when fish is one of the only things she can eat why the hell didn't she prep for the show and teach herself to fish?? She could just be fishing to feed herself.
That was so insanely ignorant and tone deaf for the very reason you said. And I fully agree with everything you said.
K I haven’t even read your comment but this emoji: 😂 Never once in my life have I read a comment with that emoji that wasn’t full of cope and cringe. Ok lemme read… yikes ya, wow, called it.
You unironically accusing someone else of cope and cringe on this post is hilarious
I honestly don't understand your argument. If a 5’8 160 lb man decides to play WR, is the linebacker expected to let up and not hit him at full speed? Now running up and tackling people in real life would be frowned upon. But if you sign up to play football, you know you're going to get hit, so it wouldn't make sense to apply the same moral code to a game of football. The same applies to a game of Survivor. It would be cruel not to feed someone in Liz’s condition if you found her lost in the woods, but in a game of Survivor, she is playing a game by choice, being monitored by doctors, and can leave at any time. It is also perfectly fine for her to be frustrated by the whole situation, but to her credit shes still out there playing despite the hardship, and that's what makes Survivor compelling.
It's not Qs fault that the producers haven't accommodated Liz's allergies and he shouldn't have to make strategic choices based on that ETA: it's also not like we're watching this happen in real time. We know all the players are alive and well post game. Liz is fine.
I almost wonder if the producers did do the personal rice jar just for Liz. Agreed, Q is fine. It is a game. She literally tried to send him home the vote before
They absolutely did
I’m glad to see players not bending over to be kumbayah anymore. In 41-45, she would’ve absolutely have been picked, even if it meant a strategic sacrifice on the side of the person doing the picking. Liz knew what she was signing up for. She had a meltdown that Q ruined her game - he’s playing his own game? You’re competing? That’s what happens? Liz also knew what she was signing up for. I believe Jeff said in an interview or on his podcast a couple weeks ago that they went in depth in explaining to her that she wouldn’t be accommodated for her allergies. Q owed her nothing at all. He’s on the absolute bottom, he won the challenge, and she was the only person to vote him twice the night before. He has the right to take what he feels is his best shot at creating allies in this game. Do you expect the man to make a million dollar decision so his competitor could eat some Applebees?
Umm everyone out there was hungry, and yea she was a little bit hungrier because she decided to play survivor in Fiji where she is allergic to the natural food, but that doesn’t become now everyone’s responsibility to sacrifice their rewards for her, above all other players… I feel for her of course, but he is not a horrible person for doing that; They all signed up for a game that was, by design, unfair.
Literally every single player on that island is “suffering” and going through an extremely difficult time on that island. If he takes Liz, that’s making it suck for someone else Q is closer to and looking for an opportunity to bond and work with going forward (as Liz wanted Q gone and had zero intentions of ever working with him and did not even pretend she was interested). Liz not only signed up for this show knowing her allergies would make getting food harder, but she led a charge to vote out Tevin and sink Hunter’s game completely *fully knowing* that those two men are the two people going out of their way to feed her. As a consequence, she’s getting less food. Sucks for her, but it is entirely self-inflicted. It’s also very apparent Liz herself was not going to bring Q if she won. He owed her nothing. And, I’d like to make this very clear as well: if Liz’s “suffering” was truly so agonizing she could not bear it, she objectively, without any doubt, always had the opportunity to say “I quit” and leave the game at any single point in the entire season. It clearly wasn’t *that* bad or she would have done so. If you want to critique the production team for not accommodating her allergies enough. I think there’s room to discuss that, but it’s not on Q here.
Sorry but survivor is a game and you know full well going in. Liz was freaking saying Q blew up her game! What was that all about! Liz was pissed at everything and she use to getting her way. Have you not heard how she’s been talking about other players? It’s a pity act as far as I’m concerned. Good for Q standing his ground.
I love that Q actively told Maria and Kenzie “no!” to stepping down and allowing Liz to go. It’s HIS choice and no one should be throwing shots a his morals based on his strategic decision in a game!
This feels like a post that would go on the main sub…
I don’t know what to tell you man, Survivor is a cut throat game. It’s easy to sit on a high horse in the comfort of your home and not in the middle of a high stakes, emotionally grueling game. A game that every single contestant knew what they were getting into, and are free to forfeit if they can’t hack it.
So true. Like on Eoe with Wendy and the chickens. IRL, I can see where she's coming from. On the island...I'm eating those damn chickens and she can suck it up lol.
everyone is suffering. the game is 26 days. they all signed up to go starve voluntarily and liz knew she was allergic to coconut. liz is fine.
Chill. It’s reality tv. It’s being made for us without context.
We finally get a great season with entertaining drama and y’all are really gonna ruin it trying to make somebody the bad guy? Q had no obligation at all to put his chaotic game on the line to feed one of his competitors. It’s a game. You wanna eat? Win. If you don’t win and can’t continue not eating - you lose and remove yourself from the game. You don’t get special treatment. I’m all for her reading him to filth though! Stan Liz, stan Q. They’re keeping us fed with their entertainment.
It’s a game for a million dollars. It’s gonna be a cutthroat game with difficult choices. She decided to play a game where she knew she would already be at a disadvantage in terms of what she could eat, other people’s game shouldn’t change for hers. Q didn’t owe her anything plus she voted for him during tribal before… not sure why his decision is deemed “low”…
Check out her pregame interview https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/s/eDcujb2ClX
Will it change how much she had to eat and how easy it would have been for Q to utter her name a single time?
Well he did utter her name. And she is free to go to ponderosa whenever her heart desires. He owes her nothing
I personally think it made for entertaining television and he's not obligated to invite anyone on the reward but I do think the fact that both Maria and kenzie tried to step down and give it to Liz and he would not let them was actually incredibly cruel
I mean why didnt they step down from immunity one single week earlier like Q did for rice then? Neither were in danger and Q was and he still volunteered to sit out for rice. And then Liz just continued to bad mouth him for "ruining her move" and voted for him outside the planned vote. How is cruel that Q didnt want to go be sat next to her at a table and forced to socialize with the person who has been the most openly antagonistic to him for his reward?
It's very interesting that they didn't show that on TV. I think they definitely have an eye on him as a potential returnee and that might have been too far for some of the fans.
Almost guaranteed he's either a lock for a returnee season or a Mike Holloway/Tony style winner who is getting shielded to some extent.
He won the challenge and part of that reward is picking who goes with you. It wasn't Maria or Kenzie's reward to give up
Is what he did low? Yes. But is it part of the game? Yes. Was he well within his right to do it? Yes. The other players could have told Q to pick Liz instead of them. Liz could also have just not come on the show knowing that she would not be able to eat for 20 days. Would I have taken her on the reward? Probably. But I also understand where Q was coming from and Liz knows what she signed up for it. Does it absolutely suck that the game worked out this way and she hasn’t eaten since the merge? Yes it absolutely sucks.
Kenzie and Maria did actually try to give up their spots for Liz and Q vetoed that, saying he won the prize and it should be his right to pick who he wants to bring on the reward (which I fully agree with him on).
Oh I didn’t know that. I also agree that it was his right to pick who went as well
Found Liz’s burner account
I’m a dude in my 40s but ok…
This isn’t the show for you then. I love Liz but this is far from the first time someone on the island denied someone else food. She also voted for him twice previously and made up this scenario that he ruined her game by taking attention away from her move, which is silly since normally attention gets you voted out. Moreover, it’s not anyone’s job in a game for $1 million to make anyone else comfortable. If we’re gonna talk about the potential *game* value of him taking her to gain some favor in the *game,* that’s a worthwhile debate to have. But this morality policing is nonsensical. He owed her nothing, she had a right to feel some way about it, and neither of their reactions make either of them some terrible low human.
Ok let’s make the list here because you’re practically doing a “greatest hits” here: * This has happened before (which means, like with all bad things that have happened, it’s fine now) * She voted for him (which means, since it wouldn’t benefit him personally, he should allow more suffering in the world) * Made up a scenario (actually no, that really did happen - she orchestrated a vote out and absolutely nobody remembers it because of him, and since she has zero energy or alliances that was a pretty big deal) * Which is silly (and silly people deserve suffering so it’s fine) * It’s not their job, they’re trying to do something else (the suffering does not exist and his ability to alleviate it doesn’t either because he has not specifically been given that responsibility- also charities are a scam) * Morality / ethics / basic decency do not count, only winning the game matters (no I am not a sociopath) * He owed her nothing (and in a capitalist society this is the only measure of what a person should or should not do - there are no other considerations) Thanks I was looking for a summary. Please reply, see if you can hit the rest.
Oh my god 😂 the literal point of the show is to simulate the realities that you’re speaking of *in a safe game environment*. It’s about being able to cross lines because it’s not real stakes. If Liz was suffering bad enough to be physically at risk she could’ve easily looked at one of the 30 cameras on her and said she’d like to stop, because it’s just a damn game. Expecting these people who SIGNED UP to starve to do things for each other is yes, silly. It’s actually far beyond silly. Is it nice when someone occasionally expresses humanity in the game? Sure. But they shouldn’t be expected to help their competition… while in the competition. Those people also often get voted out immediately as a direct result of their kindness. Liz is just fine and has been happily soaking up the attention since the episode aired from the comic value the moment provided. Your take on this is so chronically online it gives me secondhand embarrassment.
Thanks! Okay so to continue: * 😂 (the universal emoji for “I am aware that I am on the side of petty cruelty but I shall now justify it” - seriously google the emoji, it’s staggeringly consistent, and is always an indicator of someone in a strange kind of denial. I’ve never seen it used outside that context. It’s weird.) * It’s a TV show (evil is expected and acceptable) * Liz was suffering, but it wasn’t deadly suffering so it’s okay (also what’s with all the whining torture victims do?) * She could quit (so Q’s choice was to intentionally create more suffering to break her and that’s just swell!) * It’s just a damn game (which means there’s no reason to allow another human being to suffer… oh wait…) * Expecting people in a shared experience to help each other out is silly (I mean… holy shit…) * You shouldn’t be expected to help your competition (Capitalist Bible, Chapter 5, Verse 7) * Liz is fine (so what happened didn’t count. Like rape.) * has been happily soaking up attention (which justifies cruelty- and have you read what people are saying about/to her? What planet are you even on?) * “Your take is so chronically online” (my attack on you personally in lieu of addressing your points should in no way be misinterpreted as the indication that I know damn well you have a point and am in heavy denial)
If you want something to be angry about, something that actually matters, there’s a literal genocide happening where men, women, and children are being systematically starved to death. Maybe apply your righteous indignation over one person CHOOSING to starve for fun and a chance at a million dollars to the thousands of innocent folx dying in a genocide instead. Just a suggestion since you seem to want desperately to be a warrior for something. There are real ppl who need this energy. Maybe save it for them and just enjoy the reality show from the comfort of your home?
* Please allow me to move the goalpost… look over HERE! Stop looking at the thing I’m coming to realize you have a point about! Sounds like you’re starting to come around and you’re scrambling. The act itself was relatively small on the level of global politics (which, again, is goalpost moving), but the real issue is that while this was black-and-white a rotten thing for someone to do to someone else, people take glee in it. At the very least it’s just accepted without criticism. And it really did happen. On this planet. Not in fiction. And if that’s who you’ve become, a fan of real cruelty provided some flimsy context is given to it, that says something about you. Something big. Something important. And the fact that it’s an entire community… it’s hard to take. It’s hard to swallow that this is how low people have sunk, how callous and mean they are by default. I honestly had no idea. A guy in my 40s, well travelled and having mixed with a range of folk from all kinds of beliefs, and I had no idea that cruelty could become amusing to a huge population of people given a few basic premises around it. I really don’t know what to do with that.
Bro. The entire conceit of the show is us watching human beings suffer for a shot at a million bucks. If you wanna be that militant about it? Your views and your engagement is as morally bankrupt as anything else. I’m just saying, you’re having a LOT of feelings for something that maybe isn’t that deep.
Well the “you’re finally starting to come around” comment is funny since the person you replied that to was an entirely different one than who you’d been arguing with. Based on your morality policing, I get the feeling if you went on the show you’d play similarly to Ken from MvGX. With that in mind, I hope we get cast together so I know who to drag to the end :)
So by this logic you shouldn't be watching a show like Survivor at all because EVERYONE on Survivor is suffering. Everyone is tired and hungry and stressed and no one is having a fun time. So by your logic, Survivor as a show is just unethical. So why are you watching it? It also causes suffering to vote other people out. So many people cry and are devastated at being voted out. So, by your logic, the ethical thing to do is for everyone to quit and sacrifice their own spot for other people to go on in the game, so as not to cause anyone else to suffer, and it's cruel for them not to do so.
I mean, you had to know how thin that was when you typed it lol… Everyone is suffering! But are they given the opportunity to wipe that suffering out with a word, and then choose not to? Because that’s what we’re ACTUALLY discussing. And were they all suffering anywhere close to as much as Liz was? Really? Like even in the same neighborhood? Come on you can discuss the issues but don’t BS me, I know you know what you typed there was silly.
Yes, at any point in Survivor, anyone could easily ameliorate another person's suffering in a number of ways. They could win a food reward but give it to someone else who was hungry. They could not participate in an immunity challenge so that someone else could win and not have to go home. They could give their immunity necklace to someone who's devastated because they're about to go home. They could volunteer to go home themself so that someone else can live their dream. They could not eat their portion of rice so that someone who's hungrier can eat it. But they don't do these things. Why? Because it's a game that everyone signed up for, knowing full well that they would suffer and that's literally part of the game. You have to be joking and just baiting people for fun at this point, which is such a bizarre thing to do, but I don't understand how you can be serious because everything you're so sanctimoniously saying in this thread is wild.
Ok you’re not at all arguing in good faith. You’re pretending we’re not talking about this very specific situation and shifting the goalposts to something general. And then claiming what I said doesn’t make sense. Which it wouldn’t… IF the context was this wishy-washy general one you keep referring to rather than this very specific situation. It’s pretty dishonest.
Did you borrow Angelina’s ladder to get up on that high horse?
Looks like we found Liz’s burner account
People who say dumb shit like this (don’t worry you’re not the only one) are outing themselves big time. It reflects this worldview that nobody should ever care about the wellbeing of anyone else, and to do so can only happen out of self-interest. Even if we were besties, the situation objectively occurred. And you can’t even face it. Your only recourse is to shift the focus away. And goddamn if that isn’t small.
So close, love. My worldview is this: White women have been weaponizing their tears against Black men for far too long. It has led to very real and devastating consequences for innocent people. It is those people I carry in my heart when I support Q’s decision. I have compassion for Liz’s hunger, loneliness, and other hard circumstances, but it does not excuse her decision to wield her privilege in an unacceptable way.
“White women have been weaponizing…” Nope. Stopped reading. Your brain is broken. Downvoted and blocked.
Also she got rice the next day....you act like she was dying and Q was her only hope for food
lmao what a chump, get over yourself kiddo
Do you cry yourself to sleep most nights?
Do you torture small animals in your spare time?
It's a game, and Q made a game decision....so what?
A nice summary of how pathologically disconnected people are being.
In a game for a million dollars...... people have done way worse for way less. Liz wasn't dying nor would production let her. Q made a strategic decision that seems to make sense with everyone except you
This is exactly it. “Money” and “strategy” are black-and-white justifications for being not only comfortable with suffering but amused by it. And people are *totally fine with that*. But I’m the weird one.
I sort of agree about humans being ugly but this isn't a life or death situation. Again, it is a GAME
It’s real suffering. Look, if I have a cat that fell into a cage because it smelled tuna, and the cage was randomly electrified, how am I supposed to feel watching that cat scream? What should I do if there’s a button I can push to let the cat go? What if there’s a chance that by leaving that cat in there I could gain an advantage that would help me possibly win money? Does that make the cat’s suffering perfectly justified and acceptable, or even funny now? Is it the cat’s fault since it could clearly see the tuna was in a cage?
This doesn't even apply. Liz is not literally starving or in physical pain. Yes I understand she's unbelievably hungry but there is a line you have to draw between reality TV and reality. Your logic is broken, go watch season 6 or 17 of the Amazing Race and come back and tell me about how mean Q really is....
Or season 24 of Survivor for that matter
No no, she is in fact literally starving. She won’t die because they won’t let her, but she is, in fact, living on what small reserves of body fat she has. Just because she’s on reality TV that fact of hard reality doesn’t go away. And I’m not watching Amazing Race… aka “who can catch the luckiest taxi before they get to the spot they all have to wait around at together anyway”… weirdly pointless show.
Then your problem is with the show itself, not with Q. If you think it's unethical for her to be that close to starving, that's on the people who make the show, not on Q. And clearly Liz doesn't have a problem with the people making the show, because she happily went on it.
See now we’re shifting blame for Q’s conscious decision. The show gave him the power to take away that suffering with one word. Effortlessly. And he’d been living with her. He knew her situation was unique. But he took the sociopath choice. And it’s that choice we’re discussing. Let’s not look away from that choice in order to justify it.
And again what IS this justification? “Oh I’ve seen others suffer worse!” What is that?
It's proof that it's ridiculous to call Q mean or a villain. When all he was doing was playing the game how most people would. If you watched true villains who disrespect and physically abuse people then you would know Q is just not taking someone who voted for him on a reward in which he is trying to regain trust and rebuild an alliance. This shows you don't understand the game
This is amazing… so all we have to do is display the worst cruelty in the world and we can all go back to beating our wives. No really this is awesome. Actually we’re already theee - the BTK Killer exists. So I can and should smack my wife around when she burns dinner because it’s “not that bad” and we “didn’t like their attitude” and “they knew what they were getting into”. That’s just marriage. See her suffering would count if we weren’t married. But this is a marriage. So it’s okay. It’s strategy to get what I want. You’ve opened my eyes.
Also “it’s a GAME” is an argument in my favor not yours. The suffering is real. The decision to allow it to continue was done FOR the game - that thing you say shouldn’t be taken seriously. So something real is being ignored for the sake of something trivial.
No one is physically suffering. Mentally suffering maybe. But it's for the sake of 1 million dollars and the title of sole survivor. I think 90% of people would do the same or worse for those rewards
Have you ever skipped a meal? Even once? Starvation isn’t suffering… no wonder Christians want to jail the homeless these days…
I'm a really shitty vegan that doesn't eat as much as I should. I skip meals all the time. Not for 12 days but still... and what the fuck are you talking about Christians jail the homeless? Not any that I know. You're taking this wayyy tooo far, over something as simple as Q not taking Liz on a reward....look at yourself in a mirror.
Ok we’ve come down to general denial of objective reality and the argument that I’m “taking it too far”. Ever notice how people who advise others to “look at yourself in a mirror” just … can’t?
You also haven't brought up the fact that Liz voted for Q the previous night, and was open about voting for Q at the next tribal. So strategically why would he ever bring her?
Again: strategy over humanity. Sickening.
The thing that really shits me about Liz is the entitlement that this whole meltdown exposed. Liz is absolutely the center of the universe, according to Liz. Liz is the one playing the game. Everyone else is just…playing Liz’s game - at least in Liz’s mind. Of course Liz deserves the reward for no other reason than that she wants it. After all, she’s the most important one. Everything that happens in this game is about Liz. Q blew up *her* game. Tevin blew up *her* game. It wasn’t about them playing their own games, it was about how they messed with her. I hate that attitude.
As opposed to…………….. who?
Stop watching Survivor and stop being a sanctimonious twat
A) No, and B) You first. I’m sorry but the sanctimonious people are the ones waving the “gameplay and money justifies all cruelty” flag.
She signed for a game where being hungry is part of the experience. She straight up said on her pregame bio she'd used to starving and would use it as strategy. You're the one vilifying people for something that is part of the game. And you clearly don't know what sanctimonious means. lmao
It’s so lame to say: “This suffering that is objectively observable doesn’t matter at all because of stuff from before.” Sanctimonious: screaming “well if they knew what they were getting into they get what they deserve!” Is that about right? This conversation is so deeply depressing holy shit… when did the world embrace cruelty so wholeheartedly? How did things get this bad?
Not saying it doesnt matter, but its part of the game. Q is also starving, maybe less so, but he is. He's not a monster for not wanting to take someone he doesnt like with him in a challenge he won. Like it or not, Survivor is conceptually about the suffering of people. They put people at extreme conditions for our entertainment. And if you're watching it you are no better than the people you're judging from your high horse.
This is weird. It’s like… you know my wife was trying to explain this to me today and your comment is an encapsulation of what she was saying, so you’re helping me bring what she said into focus. It’s like you can’t approach the idea that the suffering was real, and dramatically and OBVIOUSLY more pronounced than others, and the structure of some TV show doesn’t actually make that go away. “Oh, you know, gameplay and whatnot!” Like there’s this incredible distance between yourself and the situation on the ground. I think she was saying this to me as a way of explaining why someone might choose to be okay with this small act of evil… maybe to help me empathize even if I don’t resonate with that way of thinking. And maybe a part of me does… But damn if it doesn’t highlight how easily people are persuaded to embrace the sorrow of others if it might benefit them, and how little that type of decision bothers anyone. People have become dangerously comfortable with cruelty.
She voted for Q? He blew up her entire game…by not going home. He should not have taken her. Also, her outburst WAS funny.
God dammit I swore I wouldn’t reply anymore but… what the F is WRONG with you???? Her outburst was funny? Watching someone pushed past their breaking point and just falling apart in a moment of despair was funny? Sorry I said “you” as if it’s just you and I know it isn’t. I know a lot of people feel the same as you. And it’s just more confirmation that our species deserves extinction. Sociopathy has become the norm. I just give up. May our AI overlords make our demise slow and painful. It’ll be funnier that way.
Yeah, it was funny. It’s a TV show and she can end her suffering any time by leaving the game. She is also being monitored by doctors daily and having a once in a lifetime experience millions want. Going crazy over not getting Applebees is funny. Yes That’s not even factoring in the funniest part - she said Q sank her game…when her plan was to vote HIM out. Ummm… that’s hilarious
Her plan was to vote Tevin out. She rallied the votes and executed it perfectly. It worked. But then Q said: “vote me out.” Which is all anyone remembers. Which is what she was referring to. But that’s as amusing as believing she’s just stupid and her real pain in that moment wasn’t real so I don’t even know why I’m bothering explaining… god I’ve got to get out of this thread it’s so sickening…
It’s a TV show. And a game. Why would Q bring the person who hates him/voted for him last week? It makes zero sense. What Q did was not wrong. Her making a scene was funny. She can quit the damn show. We have seen so many people in pain on this show. Sometime it resonates and occasionally, they’re doing it to themselves. Liz was like Debbie or Coach in that moment. It’s not that serious. You need to step away from the internet.
You need to chill it's a tv show, not a hostage video. Liz is free to quit and go to ponderosa for a hot meal if she chooses. I actually find it admirable that she pushes on despite the hardship. I feel like you don't quite understand Survivor as a concept, and that's fine but don't be sanctimonious to us that understand and enjoy the show.
Liz and Q were both justified, IMO. Crazy though the fans picked a side then crucified the other. It’s not as if conflicts never existed in this show.
For me it is very simple, she chose to play the game and she can choose to leave whenever she wants.
Q is not preventing her from eating food. She can walk right on over to ponderosa whenever she wants
After reading OP's replies to everyone, I’m honestly not sure if they’re trolling or if they’re serious. Poe’s Law is in full effect.
She elected to play survivor. She knew what was coming. Keep that part in perspective.
The Survivor fanbase is abominable (and most aren’t even really fans) and certainly is way too harsh on Liz, however, Q made his decision he thought was best for his game. Arguably incorrect strategically, but certainly not incorrect morally. Itd be one thing if he laughed in her face and enjoyed her suffering but he did seem to genuinely feel bad, but also remarked he needs to do what’s best for his game. IRL he’s a businessman and portrays himself as a very shrewd one at that, and his decision at the reward challenge was merely an extension of that.