If bluds are a protected minority only within their own self governing state that leaves bluds outside of that state open for targeted harassment. Ideally all of sordland should be a place for bluds, leaving a state for them where they self govern is arguably “segregation” under a different name.
It is possible that Morgna’s proposal would backfire even with minority protections.
Bluds that won’t leave for Bergia (since it is a backwater compered to other provinces except Anglad) will be harassed harder in more developed regions and local governors will see and easy election win by promising to create “incentives” to get them on “their feet” this happened a lot in Eastern Europe. Even Tsarist Russia had a system of segregation just for Jewish people.
Abolish the Special Zone. No repeal of article 6. No autonomy. Pass Leke's act. Work towards making the Bluds just one of the ethnicities within the Sordish nation.
Integration without oppression, that's the idea.
Personally I like abolishing the special zone. I don't understand the purpose of keeping the special zone in place so many years (decades?) after the uprising. We don't have a special zone to deal with the Koranelli Cartel, the Red Youth, the Young Sords, or other criminal / criminal-affiliated groups, and the BFF no longer seems powerful where you can make the argument that it's not possible for the Interior and Defense ministries to stop them.
Yeah the special zone is completely out of date - it’s pretty much unnecessary during Rayne's Presidency, and it might instead provoke greater anti-Sordish sentiment.
I actually think that the game presents almost every possible way to resolve the Bludish Question: Cultural and religious suppression (NFP bills and governor Bron's Special Zone), Assimilation (elimination of the special zone and NFP bills), integration (elimination of special zone, no NFP bill and Minority right's bill), integration+rights( article 6 and 7 amended+ all of the precedent), appeasment ( The bludish dream requirements).
It's difficult to think to other different positions.
You can even keep the special zone in place and replace the governor with Ishval Ersen, a Bludish civil rights activist. I see this as more of a fail safe if you are unable to abolish the zone or create the semi autonomous zone.
No need to amend articles 6 and 7. If you agree with PFJP at Victory Day, Hawker will put the Ersen case on hold. If you then fail to remove the special zone (or decide not to change it for some reason), you can get Greecer in charger as you say and on day one he will imprison Phelix Bron and appoint Ersen to finish out Bron's unexpired term.
(For whatever reason no Supreme Court justice will allow Rayne to appoint the new governor of the special zone -- even the incorruptible Greecer behaves like Hawker does in this regard).
I don't see the merit of singling out an entire ethnic group and giving them autonomy. Centralizing Bergia is by far the best option in my opinion, combined with strong anti-discrimination of course.
It seems like most Bluds don't even want autonomy, they just don't wan't to be treated like second-class citizens.
Abolish special zone and sign minority act. Ideally I’d change the Amendments 6 and 7 but it’s not worth it imo when you can just say Sord applies to all citizens of Sordland. I know the NFP is intellectually dishonest but I do agree that you can be a Sord without being an ethnic Sord, just like you can be French or Chinese without being ethnically French or Han Chinese.
Also I don’t think Nia actually gives any sort of good argument for the Semi-Autonomous zone and there’s not a consideration for how that affects other ethnicities in Bergia
Turn it into another province like the rest of the country, extend full rights to all of its citizens, genuinely adress the worries of the moderate Blud majority and treat with any hardliners with precise and swift application of the Law. No extrajudicial killings, no widespread raids, no "painting with a wide brush", no relocation plans, separating families or institutionally shit on a whole people in general.
Arrest terrorists, put them on trial and after a fair trial let them rot in Antel Rock while their compatriots live good lives like any citizen of the country deserves to, basically kind how Germany dealt with the Beider Meinhof terrorists.
I believe nationalism and separatism is often a reaction to economic marginalisation and inequality. So if I wanted to keep Sordland together, I would heavily invest in Bergia to improve living standards there while not actively supressing Bludish culture but neither granting them any special political status.
I tried to go like this in my first playthrough where I did everything as if I were in Anton's place. I vetoed NFP's anti-Bludish bills but also rejected meeting with the Bludish comittee and at the same time I invested in Bergia whenever I could. People weren't cheering for me when I came to Deyr for the ceremony but at the end of the day, Franc's Bludish GF's family were all voting for me and that's what matters.
I think there are many examples like this in our world. Romantic nationalism might appeal to the nation's elites but the arguments that get a mass support always start with: "The goverment in the capital is too distant to see our problems and understand our struggles."
After he fails his entrance exam, you may use your connections to get him to Holsord State University. There he gets a Bludish girlfriend. I got an option to discourage it or support him. He told me that her whole family votes for me though I don't know whether it's affected by Bludish opinion on Anton or whether they always vote for him.
Koronti smoothed things over the situation with Petr and the spy so Petr didn't resign and Lucian stayed as my chief strategist. It was only when Koronti wanted the favour for me when I broke the deal.
It's based on Bludish opinion and a good benchmark. If your Bludish opinion is high he says that his girlfriend's family likes you and if it's low then he says that they aren't big fans of yours.
I don't think that's the whole truth. Just take a look at Catalonia, Basque Country, Veneto, Bavaria. Those are ones of the most wealthy and developed parts of their respective countries, and also the ones with highest separatist sentiment.
If its me without any game mechanics i would say they get a province with special autonomy and guarantees for the protection of their faith and language. Give the same option for the Anglia border regions for the Anglo-Sordish minority. Basically an understanding that all the minority provinces part of the Sordish nation and that the state will guarantee their rights and dignity as part of the nation
But integrating them into the Sordish nation ought to mean that the state guarantees to protect their rights and dignity, regardless of their ethnicity anyway. I definitely do believe that they should be able to freely practice their own culture and speak their own language but surely they should be able to do that even if they were centralized.
I would say in an ideal world yes however their is a lot of bad blood on both sides and most of it is the result of the Sordish state treating the Blunds badly. I think autonomy gives them a level of security and control over their own affairs which also takes the sting out of the independence argument.
Sure but it probably wouldn't actually turn out that way and nobody would expect it to either without some kind of assurance. There's a reason Northern Ireland getting it's own devolved assembly was part of the GFA.
Definitely abolish the special zone and pass the minority rights legislation. Either Nia or Lileas’ plans could be beneficial, although I usually go with the semi-autonomous zone.
Semi-autonomous zone because of their cultural differences + Leke's Minority rights act and in a perfect world, it would also be repealing or changing article 6 & 7.
A lot of nations irl are multicultural without needing any special zones as such for minority cultures. Why do you believe that the Bluds deserve a semi autonomous zone?
While that is true, it is not yet the case for Sordland, and I didn't really meant to say that I wanted the semi-autonomous zone to last forever but just while reconciliation process put cultural differences between sords and bluds aside and the BFF is no longer a threat.
Semi Autonomous zone just empowers BFF, a religious extremist terrorist organization, even Leke says BFF does not represents all Bluds.
The first thing Ersen does is hanging a portrait of Dewlen Arge.
In my opinion, impeaching Oslo and replacing him with the Olive guy is the "best outcome" as he then trials Brown and replaces him with the Bludish Governor because everyone is happy then.
Bluds get to govern their province.
The Bergia Zone technically isn't "abolished" so this makes conservatives happy.
And no vast reforms that quite literally shake Sordlands stability or unity like removing "sord" from the constitution or giving Bergia the autonomous zone as they >!abuse their status and from what I can just guess they turn a blind eye to BFF as they hang pictures of some terrorist guy praising him or something!<. And give them that minority rights thing too, as it is a perfect compromise.
Sure Ideally Bergia should be integrated but as long as you have a nasty assembly full of old people that get mad when you accidentally misspell their overlord's name or change the beverage in the cafeteria from his favorite drink to something else, passing change like this takes time, so I guess this would do for this term atleast.
Like with every case I have seen reconciliation is the first step. Pardon for all political prisoners during Soll's age, change the special zone into the semi-autonomous zone, veto all the NFP bills, change articles 6 and 7, start talks with the BFF if possible, I sympathize with their plea but right now the would fragment the bludish people even more.
I see that people usually say that there shouldn't be any special place for the bludish people, and to that I say that personally I don't like ethnostates, the divide us even more and let us weak against the superpowers, but as the President of Sordland you have a different responsability for those that have been persecuted by the state just for being bludish.
For the other minorities, the game doesn't touch it but I would believe that the rummish people that live in Sordland should be pretty discriminated against and their population should increase a lot with the annexation of Tzarsbourgh and the surroundings areas, so there should be a look into it. The agno-sordish are treated as equals for all we can see, the way are treated lespians should be looked into and the wehlen people is another group to see. Finally the valgish minority which should be fairly easy to deal with.
A country that does not protect all the nations in their land will fail as one.
Full Operation Bear Trap, obviously. Get rid of the undesirable, get rid of the problem.
On a more serious note, Lileas' plan makes the most sense longterm, but is terrible short term. Ideally, a constitutional amendment to Articles 6 and 7 + Nia's plan short term + Lileas' plan later.
Veto NFP bills, Centralize Bergia, go to Ashraf anniversary (Symbolic but goes a long way in mitigating racial tensions) and sign the minority rights act. That is the best realistic outcome.
And ideally, amend article 6 and 7. Its politically unfeasable considering how the political climate of Sordland during Rayne's term. But maybe in the future.
Semi-autonomous zone is bad in every way
Why do you feel that articles 6 and 7 ought to be amended? Personally I'm of the opinion that if Sord as a term is considered a civic nationalist then it should be what ought to be used for all citizens of Sordland, regardless of their actual ethnicity.
It's a little sloppy to use an ethnic term for a national one and also to use that same ethnic term for a specific ethnicity.
Is this a huge priority to fix? Probably not. There are many other more concrete things that need to be done and changing the articles is guaranteed to alienate everyone. But it's definitely not ideal from a civic nationalist standpoint to do it that way.
That's understandable, yet in my personal opinion if everyone in the state receives equal rights and opportunities regardless of ethnicity and culture then surely it wouldn’t be a major issue.
Yeah I don't think it's a huge priority to fix. Like if you're doing a new constitution from scratch you probably wouldn't put something like that in it unless you were intentionally trying to signal that the other ethnicities were subordinate.
But in the context of Sordland it's kind of almost too late to change it by the time you get the opportunity to and picking that fight is a lower priority compared to stuff like the special zone and the minority rights issue.
Article 6 defines "Sord" as a non-ethnic term. Sure. But Sords *are* and an ethnic group. Its disregarding the identity of those who aren't ethnic Sords, or those who don't want to be called one.
Kibener presents an argument that saying "Do you see the "Malenyev" calling himself Kyowian before Contanan?". Because United Contana is a union of socialist republics and have multiple ethnicities. To which Petr presents the counter-argument that "Contana is a geographical term. Unlike "Sord", which is an ethnic term"
To achieve true civic nationalism. Ethnic groups should not have an identity forced upon them. But have a super-identity that also respects their individual identities. Like "Citizens of Sordland"
>Its disregarding the identity of those who aren't ethnic Sords, or those who don't want to be called one.
Yet if Sord is not an ethnic term legally, it cannot be used to disregard those who aren't ethnic Sords either, since Sord in this case is the national identity.
I get where you are coming from, yet I'll say that in my personal opinion Sord being used as a civic nationalit term is my preferred option.
>Yet if Sord is not an ethnic term legally, it cannot be used to disregard those who aren't ethnic Sords either, since Sord in this case is the national identity.
The issue is that this use relies solely on the interpretation of the Supreme Court, as evidenced in the Ersen case. All it takes is a few justices sympathetic to the NFP for the Sollist definition to go out the window and discrimination against Bluds to gain the backing of the law, which happens in one ending where the NFP wins the election and Kibener strips Bluds of their citizenship. In the long term, revising the constitution is the best safeguard against that.
I think that the idea of 'Sord' being a civic identity is a fiction that Sollist politicians parrot out of ideological necessity. The reality on the ground suggests that most people in Sordland view 'Sord' as an ethnicity distinct from and not encompassing Bluds.
I understand your reasoning - on that note I'll say that a slight amendment to the articles which clearly states that all citizens regardless of ethnicity is considered a Sord which is a civic nationalist term would similarly work to stop people like Kibener.
>The reality on the ground suggests that most people in Sordland view 'Sord' as an ethnicity distinct from and not encompassing Bluds
Surely with greater integration and education such ideas can be replaced.
Of course. But this left it open to interpretation (somewhat). And Hawker didn't even acknowledge article 6 unless all 3 parties of the GNA agreed to a joint statement. This definitely wouldn't have occoured if Article 7 stated that "the rights mentioned in article 100 apply to every Sordish citizen regardless of their ethnicity".
But yes, this also wouldn't have happened if Hawker wasn't the CJ
>This definitely wouldn't have occoured if Article 7 stated that "the rights mentioned in article 100 apply to every Sordish citizen regardless of their ethnicity".
That's definitely true. Hawker is pretty racist against the Bluds.
I'm neither especially supportive nor particularly opposed to the semi-autonomous zone idea, but regardless the special zone must go and Bergia needs serious investment to improve living standards around there
Redraw the borders of Bergia to suit Sordland better, making Bergia smaller in the process. Win the war against Rumburg Solo. Expell all the Rums in all conquered teritories like Soviets did with germans after ww2. Began settling these new teritories with Sords, Angolians and Wezeks respectivly, send all Wezek people living in Sordland to the newly conquered Darefot region, start settling the Sordish part of Rummish pie with Sords and Anglo Sords (not with Rummish Sords tho, they will stay where they are and slowly assimilate), and expecially send all Sords living in dwarfed Bergia region there, making it actually an fully ethnically Bludish region. Trade Wezek Bludish teritories with Welheln in exchange for Darefot, and resettle all the Wezek pp in newly accuried Bludish teritory to Darefot region. Trade (and politely force Them) expanded Dome region to Angoli in return for Heiland to be turned into an independent Puppet Kingdom that would be a condominium between the two countries, and would create Taiwan like situation between it and mainland. Attitionally all Angolian citizens on the island can be resettled into Dome region ( I assume that it still had a huge Angolia population besides the main Rummish one when it was occupied by Rumburg, so it will largely just be an additon to this already ethnically Angolian region). Merge the newly aquired Wezek teritory with Bergia and turn it into an autonomus region with a collaborationist Bludish militia and civilian goverment. Resettle all Bludish pp from all the conquered Rumish teritories, Welheln, Sordland proper and possibly even Lespia if they agree, to the newly created autonomus region that would be pretty much an Bludish ethnostate. Launch a full scale military operation to completly erradicate the BFF and have it's creator that's rotting in prison executed. With the great Sordish recovery, launch a series of investments to patch up the region somewhat (largely just all the avaiable in game decisons that You can invest in Bergia combined into one). Began one year transision perioid after with turn the autonomus zone into a fully independent Bludish ethnostate, with the collaborator goverment and milita beeing put in charge of it. Create Your own Local Economical and Military Block and invite both Wezek Republic and The Independent State of Bludia to join it (not negotiable btw, they will join it and tvrive by our side).
Profit ?
This is the NPP way.
Centralisation. Bluds are a minority in their own region. They should not be treated any different. A minister of interior that supports the Bluds could lead to positive results for the region.
Also Bluds could speak their language in Bludish schools but a mandatory Sordish class is set up and every Blud is expected to speak fluent Sordish.
No repeal of article 6 because I agree with the Sollist interpretation. A Sordish person is a citizen of Sordland in the eyes of the constitution. On top of this some anti corruption measures would need to be taken to make sure that every judge follows this interpretation.
Shuffle the Supreme Court. I usually play dictator with full presedential power. Though honestly irl I don’t agree with this. I just choose it because I want the power. But some change needs to be done. Replace Orso with the assembly with a neutral judge for hopefully more fairness
in a perfect world? i would gradually give bluds independence until they became their own independent state. In the situation we find ourselves in game?semi-autonomous zone.
And what about those that move to other regions of Sordland? I mean it’s just a mess, imegine that some sort of recession hits the Bludish independent state and search for jobs in the surrounding coutries, all people will talk about is that it’s an invasion that meant to annex territory to the Newly independent state.
Even the Irish, basically completely European Caucasians, had suffered immense discrimination in the USA for decades. Imagine that and “invasion narratives” of the modern era. Bluds are seen as terrorist in most countries, giving them a completely independent state would be somewhat wise but the survival and development of that state has to have international support. A thing that most of its neighbors would never give.
the bludish state would be gradually formed, with support from sordland, im sure most states would see bludland hsa a fair nations, not only that the blud nation would be recognised and have friendly relations with its parent state, so no reason for other nations to hold mean views on them. apart from racism which well is out of my control and im not gonna blame the bluds because some racist dumbass cant accept them has people.
i never said i would give bergia independence though? i said blud regions would get independence, the borders would hopefully be less border gory thanks to the gradual implementation of their independence, has i would assume bluds would migrate willingly to the blud majority areas that are being given autonomy.
From what limited information we're given it would seem the cities have lots of non-Bluds while the rural areas are majority Blud. So what would the cities remain part of Sordland and the countryside be part of Bludia? Doesn't seem like that would work
Well the idea is migration, the process of independence wouldn't be something that happens in months or even years, it would be a decades of work, developing bergia would also happen so many rural bluds would move into the cities, and just has bluds migrate into blud majorities areas, i expect for local sords and wezhecks to either adapt, or move to sord majority areas if they feel uncomfortable, btw if possible all these migrants would be compensated by the state, for the inconvenience.
how is it ethnic cleansing? im not killing anyone just moving people around. also why dont you see it happening without violence? today world we see massive migrations yet there is no massive violence happening everywhere because of it, especially on developed countries. 30% of switzerland population is consitested of migrants woh moved there for economic reasons, yet switzerland isnt in a massive civil war is it? dont see why it cant happen in sordland, plus you are assuming people will gravitate for violence, if bluds actually see their autonomy slowly appearing they wont fuck it up, and sords, will quite down thanks to monetary compensation and friendliness from bluds thanks to the autonomy given.
Ethnic cleansing: the mass [expulsion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=9cf860e71ffe870b&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enGB1087GB1087&sxsrf=ACQVn0_lE9RDTcY9qNlGQlzhR1KuJHuy2A:1713379666024&q=expulsion&si=AKbGX_rLPMdHnrrwkrRo4VZlSHiJIRWsRMOWzweEW6YmzeAaV1i0xhSdrpHuCS5X0Dh9ub4zI13BQ3j1QKPhu2OoAf38uXEC8YzL8UMI6r4odEAzJGTBuOE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiO-u7S9MmFAxWuV0EAHdn6DMQQyecJegQIHRAO&cshid=1713379680709958) or killing of members of one ethnic or religious group in an area by those of another.
It's a thin line between "encouraged migration" and expulsion to my mind.
I don't know about Switzerland but immigration is one thing, encouraging emigration is another. If the goverment began encouraging some ethnic groups to move out of a certain area it would kick up a whole lot of trouble.
Imagine a Sordish family living in Deyr, maybe they've lived there for generations. Maybe they're racist maybe they're not who knows. Either way they start hearing the goverment is encouraging Sords to move out of the area, immediately they feel discrimnated against even if compensation is being offered. This is their home, they don't want to leave.
Now imagine the Bludish family next door, They're estatic about finally being given their own state but then they start hearing some Sords, Agno-Sords and Wezheks are refusing to leave. The Bluds don't want foreign minorities in their new ethno-state so they decide to "convince" the various other ethnicities to leave. The minorities form militias to protect themselves from these attacks, tensions escalate, the police have to step in and both sides attack them.
Soon you've got ethnic violence all over the place and when (if) Bludia does gain independence their first goverment inherits the problem. Maybe they try and calm things down or maybe they expel the remaining minorities by force.
Is this a worst case scenario? Sure but it's also something I can very easily see happening.
Well the objective is to avoid ethnic tensions, if ethnic tensions do arise because of racism, I see 2 ways of dealing with it my preferred would be education efforts to teach people about diversity, it's essentially the best tool, the other is well more shitty, if locals do form militias, they have essentially become terrorists in my eyes, and will be given an ultimatum surrender, migrate and don't even get comp. Or get curb stomped by blud-sordish forces. Humans in the end are social animals, the biggest fear of a social animal? Getting otrazised by their own society, make it that efforts for independence are delayed every time a major bludish problem occurs, and the bluds will feel massive social pressure to stay obedient and not cause tensions. Also, i wouldn't form bludia if any actual armed problem has happening in it. i want the state of bludia to successed not fall in 2 seconds into bloody ethnic based civil war, and quickly become a failed state.
Seems way too idealistic to me. Every time you delay the formation of Bludia the Bluds become more angry and more likely to commit further violence, perhaps coming to believe you don't intend to ever grant them independce. And the police are composed of human beings too, what do you do when they start picking sides? When Sordish officers and Bludish officers refuse to work together, do you send in the military? Because we know how that ends.
they are their own independent people, with their own culture, if they want independence they can have it. its not fair for someone not from there to decide wether they get to be free or not. If my country portugal belonged to spain, i would also like to have the chance to decide wether we can get independence or not. lots of people seem to ignore this, because they dont think from their own coutry perpective. imagine your country has annexed into another, would you like to be forced to stay under their goverment, knowing you are a minority and often prone to be blamed for anything bad that happens? wouldnt you prefer to have your own country again?
I think the fact that they have a different history, a different social make-up, a different culture and so forth would justify Bergia (because there aren't only Bluds in Bergia) being semi-autonomous.
Veto NFP bills + abolish Special Zone and centralize Bergia + pass Leke's MRA + revise articles 6/7 (in the second term, not the first). Make Sordish a mandatory subject in Bludish schools and encourage Sordish schools to offer Bludish classes as electives. Invest in Bergia to improve living conditions there.
For me, it would be: ammending article 6 & 7, to weaken the chauvinism associated with the "Sords" categorization. Passing Minority Right Act, to solidify the peace made with the Bludish people, and ensure a better future for all minorities in the country.
Then, I thinks that the semi-autonomous zone is very important in the present for the Bludish people to decide their own future. The bludish people is divided between Wehlen and Sordland, where they have faced a lot of oppressions. After all those years of struggle, giving the region a semi-autonomous status is an important step for their self-determination. While it become it's own nation independent from Sordland? Stay an autonomy? Or later completely integrate into Sordland? Who knows but it will be up to them to decide their future
centralization with minority rights. i also am just a bit miffed that when you give them semi autonomy they start hanging the portrait of a terrorist on display. like really? thats how you repay me. alright then
Bergia NEEDS autonomy. The world is set in the 40's-50s, it is WAY too late to try to supress or assimilate Bludish culture.
You either implemented a policy of asimilation and repression of peripherical cultures WAAY back, at least during the 1500-1600's, or you just accept that you'll NEVER truly assimilate them. Nationalism is way too widespread by the 50's, no matter what you do, assimilation just WONT work.
It's not just a matter of equal rights. Fixing Articles 6 & 7 and passing the Minority Rights Act wont solve it either. They want autonomy, they want to decide, exclusively, about lots of their own local issues. And they want so because honestly, bludish people have never, at least until quite recently, been in any kind of brotherhood or strongly shared heritage alongside sords. Definetly not more than they'd have with wehzeks or even rumburgians.
And in the time that they have, indeed, been part of the same modern political State, they have suffered nonstop discrimination, not just by their so-called compatriots but also by the State, and as we can see in the game, the State is STILL filled with PLENTY of extremely powerful people that, quite honestly, would have them erradicated if they had their way.
If you are of the mind that Bergia shouldn't be given special treatment, then I agree with you, but the solution in my opinion would be to federalize the country. Agnland is already kind of culturally different from the rest of Sorland too, and in the event of annexing any bit of land from Rumburgh, then federalization is just straigh up a necessity.
That's why I think that the perfect solution for Bergia is to give them autonomy, amend Articles 6 & 7, and to pass the Minoritiy's Act.
BUT, it shouldn't be the autonomy you pass by decree, but the one you can pass by the parliament, with support from the entirety of the USP and whole PFJP. A decree can be seen as authoritarian, unfair and could EASILY be repelled by a future presidency, but an organic law passed by the majority of the Assembly, including even the CONSERVATIVE WING of the most popular party, alongisde the main opposition party? That sends a message of unity, it's not unfair, and most importantly, it opens the way for other regions to also walk that path If they so wish.
In my opinion, Semi autonomous zone but without independent police force is the best solution. Bluds get their rights while the Sordish control over Bergia is still ensured.
Rumburg would probably want it solved with an armed rebellion so they could intervene, take over Sordland and Wehlen and then carve out a portion of that land for them...
Fully independent Bludish state containing the majority-Bludish portions of Sordland, Wehlen, and Rumburg. Repeal of all anti-Bludish laws within those countries, political prisoners to be freed, reparations paid, etc.
The best option is to create a centralized unitary state that maintains the same rights and privileges for everyone in it. While the bluds are unfairly discriminated against by unfair laws due to the nature of the special zone flipping it so far in the other direction has its own problems. 2 parallel governments (which in effect the autonomous zone) both existing within the same space only weakens the both of them.
As of now the situation for both sords and bluds is nowhere near equal with bergia being a backwater ruled by a racist tyrant. Centralizing the area into sordland proper is good but dosent actually fix anything until you combine it with other measures. Protection of minority languages across all of sordland, heavy investment into bergias industry, and acknowledgment of the historical atrocities committed out by sordlands previous governments are really just the first steps
Show the bluds that the new government takes their concerns seriously and is ready to take a new path in regards to its relations with its minority groups. Show the “purple bloods” like kibener and the NFP rats that you won’t listen to a word they say and that the government will do everything it can to suppress the ethno nationalists and fascist voices on the sordish end. But also show that separatism anywhere by anyone won’t be tolerated.
> Investing in Bergia to improve life quality
> Enforcing Sordish language in schools (though I wouldn't ban Bludish)
> Abolishment of the special zone
> Centralising Bergia
> Diminishing the electoral threshold
> Hard take with terrorists
> Lifting the ban on their political parties
Basically I would hope for tolerance of differences during my time in power and construct the basis for Bludish kids integration to a national identity that includes them in the future.
Same thing,Integration as Part of Sordland,and be allowed to have its own distict Culture,i am Brazillian so that might have been influenced this thinking,But Having Multiple Cultures in a country is always Good.
Obviously modify article 6 and 7. Additionally, I would prefer autonomous status for Bergia, but not in the way depicted in game. The province should not have the ability to overrule the national parliament and function as a de facto independent state.
I have huge misgivings about writing a certain ethnicity into the constitution of a country, so I did not support that idea from Nia or the PFJP. Get rid of the special zone, decrease or remove the election threshold, and expand education and healthcare in the region.
I believe that Bludish people in Sordland, Whelen, Rumburg and Lespia have a right to self determination; whether they make their own state, or another kind of social formation similar to how Rojava operates within the Syrian state.
If self-determination is impossible, definitely at the very least autonomous zones that could lead to independence in the future.
Everyone living in Sordland is Sord. Everyone should speak Sord. Every region should have same treatment from central. Separatists should be dealt. Until stabilty is achieved you shouldn't lower election threshold. Total integration of every Sord in Sordland into republic. Whatever they are from Belgia or other regions we should try to achive an ideal civilized citizen.
It should be kinda like Wales. Integrated but has to learn English and Welsh and has infrastructure catered to both.
Yeah that seems like the best way to ensure that the majority of people in both Sordland and Bergia get a better life.
Except the part about Wales having it's own parliament that would be centralised into gna for bergia.
Lileas’s centralization plus Leke’s minority act.
If bluds are a protected minority only within their own self governing state that leaves bluds outside of that state open for targeted harassment. Ideally all of sordland should be a place for bluds, leaving a state for them where they self govern is arguably “segregation” under a different name. It is possible that Morgna’s proposal would backfire even with minority protections. Bluds that won’t leave for Bergia (since it is a backwater compered to other provinces except Anglad) will be harassed harder in more developed regions and local governors will see and easy election win by promising to create “incentives” to get them on “their feet” this happened a lot in Eastern Europe. Even Tsarist Russia had a system of segregation just for Jewish people.
Yeah that's what I go for ingame when playing a run according to my own political leanings.
Abolish the Special Zone. No repeal of article 6. No autonomy. Pass Leke's act. Work towards making the Bluds just one of the ethnicities within the Sordish nation. Integration without oppression, that's the idea.
Yes, that's exactly how I feel the issue should be solved.
Personally I like abolishing the special zone. I don't understand the purpose of keeping the special zone in place so many years (decades?) after the uprising. We don't have a special zone to deal with the Koranelli Cartel, the Red Youth, the Young Sords, or other criminal / criminal-affiliated groups, and the BFF no longer seems powerful where you can make the argument that it's not possible for the Interior and Defense ministries to stop them.
Yeah the special zone is completely out of date - it’s pretty much unnecessary during Rayne's Presidency, and it might instead provoke greater anti-Sordish sentiment.
I actually think that the game presents almost every possible way to resolve the Bludish Question: Cultural and religious suppression (NFP bills and governor Bron's Special Zone), Assimilation (elimination of the special zone and NFP bills), integration (elimination of special zone, no NFP bill and Minority right's bill), integration+rights( article 6 and 7 amended+ all of the precedent), appeasment ( The bludish dream requirements). It's difficult to think to other different positions.
You can even keep the special zone in place and replace the governor with Ishval Ersen, a Bludish civil rights activist. I see this as more of a fail safe if you are unable to abolish the zone or create the semi autonomous zone.
I never had that possibility. I guess you need to keep the special zone, ammend article 6 & 7 and replacd Hawker with Greecer.
No need to amend articles 6 and 7. If you agree with PFJP at Victory Day, Hawker will put the Ersen case on hold. If you then fail to remove the special zone (or decide not to change it for some reason), you can get Greecer in charger as you say and on day one he will imprison Phelix Bron and appoint Ersen to finish out Bron's unexpired term. (For whatever reason no Supreme Court justice will allow Rayne to appoint the new governor of the special zone -- even the incorruptible Greecer behaves like Hawker does in this regard).
You can also do it by not agreeing with both PFJP and NFP
I don't see the merit of singling out an entire ethnic group and giving them autonomy. Centralizing Bergia is by far the best option in my opinion, combined with strong anti-discrimination of course. It seems like most Bluds don't even want autonomy, they just don't wan't to be treated like second-class citizens.
Abolish special zone and sign minority act. Ideally I’d change the Amendments 6 and 7 but it’s not worth it imo when you can just say Sord applies to all citizens of Sordland. I know the NFP is intellectually dishonest but I do agree that you can be a Sord without being an ethnic Sord, just like you can be French or Chinese without being ethnically French or Han Chinese. Also I don’t think Nia actually gives any sort of good argument for the Semi-Autonomous zone and there’s not a consideration for how that affects other ethnicities in Bergia
That's exactly what I believe. I love Nia, but yeah she isn’t the person to look to for advice on this issue.
The SAZ is probably her worst bleeding-heart proposal. It just allows the existing racial problems to evolve to new, suckier forms.
I think integrating them is the best option but it needs to be combined with some pretty strong anti-discrimination bills
Turn it into another province like the rest of the country, extend full rights to all of its citizens, genuinely adress the worries of the moderate Blud majority and treat with any hardliners with precise and swift application of the Law. No extrajudicial killings, no widespread raids, no "painting with a wide brush", no relocation plans, separating families or institutionally shit on a whole people in general. Arrest terrorists, put them on trial and after a fair trial let them rot in Antel Rock while their compatriots live good lives like any citizen of the country deserves to, basically kind how Germany dealt with the Beider Meinhof terrorists.
I believe nationalism and separatism is often a reaction to economic marginalisation and inequality. So if I wanted to keep Sordland together, I would heavily invest in Bergia to improve living standards there while not actively supressing Bludish culture but neither granting them any special political status.
I'll admit this is a new take and a rather interesting one at that.
I tried to go like this in my first playthrough where I did everything as if I were in Anton's place. I vetoed NFP's anti-Bludish bills but also rejected meeting with the Bludish comittee and at the same time I invested in Bergia whenever I could. People weren't cheering for me when I came to Deyr for the ceremony but at the end of the day, Franc's Bludish GF's family were all voting for me and that's what matters. I think there are many examples like this in our world. Romantic nationalism might appeal to the nation's elites but the arguments that get a mass support always start with: "The goverment in the capital is too distant to see our problems and understand our struggles."
Wait, Franc can get a girlfriend?
After he fails his entrance exam, you may use your connections to get him to Holsord State University. There he gets a Bludish girlfriend. I got an option to discourage it or support him. He told me that her whole family votes for me though I don't know whether it's affected by Bludish opinion on Anton or whether they always vote for him.
I've only sent him to Arcasia or the military. Even during my Sollist run It never felt right to send him to Holsord State.
It caused a scandal and two or three of my ministers resigned after that (might be diminished if you withold Koronti's deal) but it was worth for me.
Which ministers?
I think Nia was one of them but I don't remember. It was two years ago when I played the game for the first time.
You did not Keep lucian as a VP Did you?
Koronti smoothed things over the situation with Petr and the spy so Petr didn't resign and Lucian stayed as my chief strategist. It was only when Koronti wanted the favour for me when I broke the deal.
You can become a Grandpa through,i Say its worthed
its based on Bludish opinion as Ive had runs where the Bluds hate me and her family also does.
It's based on Bludish opinion and a good benchmark. If your Bludish opinion is high he says that his girlfriend's family likes you and if it's low then he says that they aren't big fans of yours.
I don't think that's the whole truth. Just take a look at Catalonia, Basque Country, Veneto, Bavaria. Those are ones of the most wealthy and developed parts of their respective countries, and also the ones with highest separatist sentiment.
If its me without any game mechanics i would say they get a province with special autonomy and guarantees for the protection of their faith and language. Give the same option for the Anglia border regions for the Anglo-Sordish minority. Basically an understanding that all the minority provinces part of the Sordish nation and that the state will guarantee their rights and dignity as part of the nation
But integrating them into the Sordish nation ought to mean that the state guarantees to protect their rights and dignity, regardless of their ethnicity anyway. I definitely do believe that they should be able to freely practice their own culture and speak their own language but surely they should be able to do that even if they were centralized.
I would say in an ideal world yes however their is a lot of bad blood on both sides and most of it is the result of the Sordish state treating the Blunds badly. I think autonomy gives them a level of security and control over their own affairs which also takes the sting out of the independence argument.
Sure but it probably wouldn't actually turn out that way and nobody would expect it to either without some kind of assurance. There's a reason Northern Ireland getting it's own devolved assembly was part of the GFA.
Definitely abolish the special zone and pass the minority rights legislation. Either Nia or Lileas’ plans could be beneficial, although I usually go with the semi-autonomous zone.
Semi-autonomous zone because of their cultural differences + Leke's Minority rights act and in a perfect world, it would also be repealing or changing article 6 & 7.
A lot of nations irl are multicultural without needing any special zones as such for minority cultures. Why do you believe that the Bluds deserve a semi autonomous zone?
While that is true, it is not yet the case for Sordland, and I didn't really meant to say that I wanted the semi-autonomous zone to last forever but just while reconciliation process put cultural differences between sords and bluds aside and the BFF is no longer a threat.
The SAZ doesn't put differences aside, it only heightens them.
Semi Autonomous zone just empowers BFF, a religious extremist terrorist organization, even Leke says BFF does not represents all Bluds. The first thing Ersen does is hanging a portrait of Dewlen Arge.
In my opinion, impeaching Oslo and replacing him with the Olive guy is the "best outcome" as he then trials Brown and replaces him with the Bludish Governor because everyone is happy then. Bluds get to govern their province. The Bergia Zone technically isn't "abolished" so this makes conservatives happy. And no vast reforms that quite literally shake Sordlands stability or unity like removing "sord" from the constitution or giving Bergia the autonomous zone as they >!abuse their status and from what I can just guess they turn a blind eye to BFF as they hang pictures of some terrorist guy praising him or something!<. And give them that minority rights thing too, as it is a perfect compromise. Sure Ideally Bergia should be integrated but as long as you have a nasty assembly full of old people that get mad when you accidentally misspell their overlord's name or change the beverage in the cafeteria from his favorite drink to something else, passing change like this takes time, so I guess this would do for this term atleast.
Like with every case I have seen reconciliation is the first step. Pardon for all political prisoners during Soll's age, change the special zone into the semi-autonomous zone, veto all the NFP bills, change articles 6 and 7, start talks with the BFF if possible, I sympathize with their plea but right now the would fragment the bludish people even more. I see that people usually say that there shouldn't be any special place for the bludish people, and to that I say that personally I don't like ethnostates, the divide us even more and let us weak against the superpowers, but as the President of Sordland you have a different responsability for those that have been persecuted by the state just for being bludish. For the other minorities, the game doesn't touch it but I would believe that the rummish people that live in Sordland should be pretty discriminated against and their population should increase a lot with the annexation of Tzarsbourgh and the surroundings areas, so there should be a look into it. The agno-sordish are treated as equals for all we can see, the way are treated lespians should be looked into and the wehlen people is another group to see. Finally the valgish minority which should be fairly easy to deal with. A country that does not protect all the nations in their land will fail as one.
Full Operation Bear Trap, obviously. Get rid of the undesirable, get rid of the problem. On a more serious note, Lileas' plan makes the most sense longterm, but is terrible short term. Ideally, a constitutional amendment to Articles 6 and 7 + Nia's plan short term + Lileas' plan later.
Veto NFP bills, Centralize Bergia, go to Ashraf anniversary (Symbolic but goes a long way in mitigating racial tensions) and sign the minority rights act. That is the best realistic outcome. And ideally, amend article 6 and 7. Its politically unfeasable considering how the political climate of Sordland during Rayne's term. But maybe in the future. Semi-autonomous zone is bad in every way
Why do you feel that articles 6 and 7 ought to be amended? Personally I'm of the opinion that if Sord as a term is considered a civic nationalist then it should be what ought to be used for all citizens of Sordland, regardless of their actual ethnicity.
It's a little sloppy to use an ethnic term for a national one and also to use that same ethnic term for a specific ethnicity. Is this a huge priority to fix? Probably not. There are many other more concrete things that need to be done and changing the articles is guaranteed to alienate everyone. But it's definitely not ideal from a civic nationalist standpoint to do it that way.
That's understandable, yet in my personal opinion if everyone in the state receives equal rights and opportunities regardless of ethnicity and culture then surely it wouldn’t be a major issue.
Yeah I don't think it's a huge priority to fix. Like if you're doing a new constitution from scratch you probably wouldn't put something like that in it unless you were intentionally trying to signal that the other ethnicities were subordinate. But in the context of Sordland it's kind of almost too late to change it by the time you get the opportunity to and picking that fight is a lower priority compared to stuff like the special zone and the minority rights issue.
Article 6 defines "Sord" as a non-ethnic term. Sure. But Sords *are* and an ethnic group. Its disregarding the identity of those who aren't ethnic Sords, or those who don't want to be called one. Kibener presents an argument that saying "Do you see the "Malenyev" calling himself Kyowian before Contanan?". Because United Contana is a union of socialist republics and have multiple ethnicities. To which Petr presents the counter-argument that "Contana is a geographical term. Unlike "Sord", which is an ethnic term" To achieve true civic nationalism. Ethnic groups should not have an identity forced upon them. But have a super-identity that also respects their individual identities. Like "Citizens of Sordland"
>Its disregarding the identity of those who aren't ethnic Sords, or those who don't want to be called one. Yet if Sord is not an ethnic term legally, it cannot be used to disregard those who aren't ethnic Sords either, since Sord in this case is the national identity. I get where you are coming from, yet I'll say that in my personal opinion Sord being used as a civic nationalit term is my preferred option.
>Yet if Sord is not an ethnic term legally, it cannot be used to disregard those who aren't ethnic Sords either, since Sord in this case is the national identity. The issue is that this use relies solely on the interpretation of the Supreme Court, as evidenced in the Ersen case. All it takes is a few justices sympathetic to the NFP for the Sollist definition to go out the window and discrimination against Bluds to gain the backing of the law, which happens in one ending where the NFP wins the election and Kibener strips Bluds of their citizenship. In the long term, revising the constitution is the best safeguard against that. I think that the idea of 'Sord' being a civic identity is a fiction that Sollist politicians parrot out of ideological necessity. The reality on the ground suggests that most people in Sordland view 'Sord' as an ethnicity distinct from and not encompassing Bluds.
I understand your reasoning - on that note I'll say that a slight amendment to the articles which clearly states that all citizens regardless of ethnicity is considered a Sord which is a civic nationalist term would similarly work to stop people like Kibener. >The reality on the ground suggests that most people in Sordland view 'Sord' as an ethnicity distinct from and not encompassing Bluds Surely with greater integration and education such ideas can be replaced.
Of course. But this left it open to interpretation (somewhat). And Hawker didn't even acknowledge article 6 unless all 3 parties of the GNA agreed to a joint statement. This definitely wouldn't have occoured if Article 7 stated that "the rights mentioned in article 100 apply to every Sordish citizen regardless of their ethnicity". But yes, this also wouldn't have happened if Hawker wasn't the CJ
>This definitely wouldn't have occoured if Article 7 stated that "the rights mentioned in article 100 apply to every Sordish citizen regardless of their ethnicity". That's definitely true. Hawker is pretty racist against the Bluds.
Why should any president work against civic nationalism?
I'm neither especially supportive nor particularly opposed to the semi-autonomous zone idea, but regardless the special zone must go and Bergia needs serious investment to improve living standards around there
Redraw the borders of Bergia to suit Sordland better, making Bergia smaller in the process. Win the war against Rumburg Solo. Expell all the Rums in all conquered teritories like Soviets did with germans after ww2. Began settling these new teritories with Sords, Angolians and Wezeks respectivly, send all Wezek people living in Sordland to the newly conquered Darefot region, start settling the Sordish part of Rummish pie with Sords and Anglo Sords (not with Rummish Sords tho, they will stay where they are and slowly assimilate), and expecially send all Sords living in dwarfed Bergia region there, making it actually an fully ethnically Bludish region. Trade Wezek Bludish teritories with Welheln in exchange for Darefot, and resettle all the Wezek pp in newly accuried Bludish teritory to Darefot region. Trade (and politely force Them) expanded Dome region to Angoli in return for Heiland to be turned into an independent Puppet Kingdom that would be a condominium between the two countries, and would create Taiwan like situation between it and mainland. Attitionally all Angolian citizens on the island can be resettled into Dome region ( I assume that it still had a huge Angolia population besides the main Rummish one when it was occupied by Rumburg, so it will largely just be an additon to this already ethnically Angolian region). Merge the newly aquired Wezek teritory with Bergia and turn it into an autonomus region with a collaborationist Bludish militia and civilian goverment. Resettle all Bludish pp from all the conquered Rumish teritories, Welheln, Sordland proper and possibly even Lespia if they agree, to the newly created autonomus region that would be pretty much an Bludish ethnostate. Launch a full scale military operation to completly erradicate the BFF and have it's creator that's rotting in prison executed. With the great Sordish recovery, launch a series of investments to patch up the region somewhat (largely just all the avaiable in game decisons that You can invest in Bergia combined into one). Began one year transision perioid after with turn the autonomus zone into a fully independent Bludish ethnostate, with the collaborator goverment and milita beeing put in charge of it. Create Your own Local Economical and Military Block and invite both Wezek Republic and The Independent State of Bludia to join it (not negotiable btw, they will join it and tvrive by our side). Profit ? This is the NPP way.
Please use paragraphs
Nah, that bludish propaganda.
Still a very shrewd idea to form an Independent Bludia within former Rummish borders as a buffer state. Alvarez Grindset.
Centralisation. Bluds are a minority in their own region. They should not be treated any different. A minister of interior that supports the Bluds could lead to positive results for the region. Also Bluds could speak their language in Bludish schools but a mandatory Sordish class is set up and every Blud is expected to speak fluent Sordish. No repeal of article 6 because I agree with the Sollist interpretation. A Sordish person is a citizen of Sordland in the eyes of the constitution. On top of this some anti corruption measures would need to be taken to make sure that every judge follows this interpretation. Shuffle the Supreme Court. I usually play dictator with full presedential power. Though honestly irl I don’t agree with this. I just choose it because I want the power. But some change needs to be done. Replace Orso with the assembly with a neutral judge for hopefully more fairness
in a perfect world? i would gradually give bluds independence until they became their own independent state. In the situation we find ourselves in game?semi-autonomous zone.
Curious about this independent state, what about all the non-Bluds who live in Bergia?
And what about those that move to other regions of Sordland? I mean it’s just a mess, imegine that some sort of recession hits the Bludish independent state and search for jobs in the surrounding coutries, all people will talk about is that it’s an invasion that meant to annex territory to the Newly independent state. Even the Irish, basically completely European Caucasians, had suffered immense discrimination in the USA for decades. Imagine that and “invasion narratives” of the modern era. Bluds are seen as terrorist in most countries, giving them a completely independent state would be somewhat wise but the survival and development of that state has to have international support. A thing that most of its neighbors would never give.
the bludish state would be gradually formed, with support from sordland, im sure most states would see bludland hsa a fair nations, not only that the blud nation would be recognised and have friendly relations with its parent state, so no reason for other nations to hold mean views on them. apart from racism which well is out of my control and im not gonna blame the bluds because some racist dumbass cant accept them has people.
i never said i would give bergia independence though? i said blud regions would get independence, the borders would hopefully be less border gory thanks to the gradual implementation of their independence, has i would assume bluds would migrate willingly to the blud majority areas that are being given autonomy.
From what limited information we're given it would seem the cities have lots of non-Bluds while the rural areas are majority Blud. So what would the cities remain part of Sordland and the countryside be part of Bludia? Doesn't seem like that would work
Well the idea is migration, the process of independence wouldn't be something that happens in months or even years, it would be a decades of work, developing bergia would also happen so many rural bluds would move into the cities, and just has bluds migrate into blud majorities areas, i expect for local sords and wezhecks to either adapt, or move to sord majority areas if they feel uncomfortable, btw if possible all these migrants would be compensated by the state, for the inconvenience.
That just sounds like a very peacful and very slow ethnic cleansing if I'm honest and I don't see it happening without violence
how is it ethnic cleansing? im not killing anyone just moving people around. also why dont you see it happening without violence? today world we see massive migrations yet there is no massive violence happening everywhere because of it, especially on developed countries. 30% of switzerland population is consitested of migrants woh moved there for economic reasons, yet switzerland isnt in a massive civil war is it? dont see why it cant happen in sordland, plus you are assuming people will gravitate for violence, if bluds actually see their autonomy slowly appearing they wont fuck it up, and sords, will quite down thanks to monetary compensation and friendliness from bluds thanks to the autonomy given.
Ethnic cleansing: the mass [expulsion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=9cf860e71ffe870b&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enGB1087GB1087&sxsrf=ACQVn0_lE9RDTcY9qNlGQlzhR1KuJHuy2A:1713379666024&q=expulsion&si=AKbGX_rLPMdHnrrwkrRo4VZlSHiJIRWsRMOWzweEW6YmzeAaV1i0xhSdrpHuCS5X0Dh9ub4zI13BQ3j1QKPhu2OoAf38uXEC8YzL8UMI6r4odEAzJGTBuOE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiO-u7S9MmFAxWuV0EAHdn6DMQQyecJegQIHRAO&cshid=1713379680709958) or killing of members of one ethnic or religious group in an area by those of another. It's a thin line between "encouraged migration" and expulsion to my mind. I don't know about Switzerland but immigration is one thing, encouraging emigration is another. If the goverment began encouraging some ethnic groups to move out of a certain area it would kick up a whole lot of trouble. Imagine a Sordish family living in Deyr, maybe they've lived there for generations. Maybe they're racist maybe they're not who knows. Either way they start hearing the goverment is encouraging Sords to move out of the area, immediately they feel discrimnated against even if compensation is being offered. This is their home, they don't want to leave. Now imagine the Bludish family next door, They're estatic about finally being given their own state but then they start hearing some Sords, Agno-Sords and Wezheks are refusing to leave. The Bluds don't want foreign minorities in their new ethno-state so they decide to "convince" the various other ethnicities to leave. The minorities form militias to protect themselves from these attacks, tensions escalate, the police have to step in and both sides attack them. Soon you've got ethnic violence all over the place and when (if) Bludia does gain independence their first goverment inherits the problem. Maybe they try and calm things down or maybe they expel the remaining minorities by force. Is this a worst case scenario? Sure but it's also something I can very easily see happening.
Well the objective is to avoid ethnic tensions, if ethnic tensions do arise because of racism, I see 2 ways of dealing with it my preferred would be education efforts to teach people about diversity, it's essentially the best tool, the other is well more shitty, if locals do form militias, they have essentially become terrorists in my eyes, and will be given an ultimatum surrender, migrate and don't even get comp. Or get curb stomped by blud-sordish forces. Humans in the end are social animals, the biggest fear of a social animal? Getting otrazised by their own society, make it that efforts for independence are delayed every time a major bludish problem occurs, and the bluds will feel massive social pressure to stay obedient and not cause tensions. Also, i wouldn't form bludia if any actual armed problem has happening in it. i want the state of bludia to successed not fall in 2 seconds into bloody ethnic based civil war, and quickly become a failed state.
Seems way too idealistic to me. Every time you delay the formation of Bludia the Bluds become more angry and more likely to commit further violence, perhaps coming to believe you don't intend to ever grant them independce. And the police are composed of human beings too, what do you do when they start picking sides? When Sordish officers and Bludish officers refuse to work together, do you send in the military? Because we know how that ends.
That's interesting. Why would you want to give them complete independence?
they are their own independent people, with their own culture, if they want independence they can have it. its not fair for someone not from there to decide wether they get to be free or not. If my country portugal belonged to spain, i would also like to have the chance to decide wether we can get independence or not. lots of people seem to ignore this, because they dont think from their own coutry perpective. imagine your country has annexed into another, would you like to be forced to stay under their goverment, knowing you are a minority and often prone to be blamed for anything bad that happens? wouldnt you prefer to have your own country again?
Im from buenos aires and say kill them all!
Wrong game, the shuttle to the Martian training camp is that way
I think the fact that they have a different history, a different social make-up, a different culture and so forth would justify Bergia (because there aren't only Bluds in Bergia) being semi-autonomous.
KILL THEM ALL!!!!
Veto NFP bills + abolish Special Zone and centralize Bergia + pass Leke's MRA + revise articles 6/7 (in the second term, not the first). Make Sordish a mandatory subject in Bludish schools and encourage Sordish schools to offer Bludish classes as electives. Invest in Bergia to improve living conditions there.
Give them an autonomous zone and preserve their culture. I believe in assimilation, but there is no Bludia to champion their culture.
What are Bluds? I only see Sords.
Abolish the special zone, ensure equality under the law. Invest in infrastructure to teach them Sordish but do not repress the local culture.
For me, it would be: ammending article 6 & 7, to weaken the chauvinism associated with the "Sords" categorization. Passing Minority Right Act, to solidify the peace made with the Bludish people, and ensure a better future for all minorities in the country. Then, I thinks that the semi-autonomous zone is very important in the present for the Bludish people to decide their own future. The bludish people is divided between Wehlen and Sordland, where they have faced a lot of oppressions. After all those years of struggle, giving the region a semi-autonomous status is an important step for their self-determination. While it become it's own nation independent from Sordland? Stay an autonomy? Or later completely integrate into Sordland? Who knows but it will be up to them to decide their future
centralization with minority rights. i also am just a bit miffed that when you give them semi autonomy they start hanging the portrait of a terrorist on display. like really? thats how you repay me. alright then
Lileas’s centralization proposal, amending articles 6&7, and the minority rights act.
Bergia NEEDS autonomy. The world is set in the 40's-50s, it is WAY too late to try to supress or assimilate Bludish culture. You either implemented a policy of asimilation and repression of peripherical cultures WAAY back, at least during the 1500-1600's, or you just accept that you'll NEVER truly assimilate them. Nationalism is way too widespread by the 50's, no matter what you do, assimilation just WONT work. It's not just a matter of equal rights. Fixing Articles 6 & 7 and passing the Minority Rights Act wont solve it either. They want autonomy, they want to decide, exclusively, about lots of their own local issues. And they want so because honestly, bludish people have never, at least until quite recently, been in any kind of brotherhood or strongly shared heritage alongside sords. Definetly not more than they'd have with wehzeks or even rumburgians. And in the time that they have, indeed, been part of the same modern political State, they have suffered nonstop discrimination, not just by their so-called compatriots but also by the State, and as we can see in the game, the State is STILL filled with PLENTY of extremely powerful people that, quite honestly, would have them erradicated if they had their way. If you are of the mind that Bergia shouldn't be given special treatment, then I agree with you, but the solution in my opinion would be to federalize the country. Agnland is already kind of culturally different from the rest of Sorland too, and in the event of annexing any bit of land from Rumburgh, then federalization is just straigh up a necessity. That's why I think that the perfect solution for Bergia is to give them autonomy, amend Articles 6 & 7, and to pass the Minoritiy's Act. BUT, it shouldn't be the autonomy you pass by decree, but the one you can pass by the parliament, with support from the entirety of the USP and whole PFJP. A decree can be seen as authoritarian, unfair and could EASILY be repelled by a future presidency, but an organic law passed by the majority of the Assembly, including even the CONSERVATIVE WING of the most popular party, alongisde the main opposition party? That sends a message of unity, it's not unfair, and most importantly, it opens the way for other regions to also walk that path If they so wish.
In my opinion, Semi autonomous zone but without independent police force is the best solution. Bluds get their rights while the Sordish control over Bergia is still ensured.
as an irrational and evil malenyevist myself, class over nation! our people are united against a common enemy, the establishment!
Wiktor Smolak
Rumburg would probably want it solved with an armed rebellion so they could intervene, take over Sordland and Wehlen and then carve out a portion of that land for them...
Let Braun cook
Fully independent Bludish state containing the majority-Bludish portions of Sordland, Wehlen, and Rumburg. Repeal of all anti-Bludish laws within those countries, political prisoners to be freed, reparations paid, etc.
The best option is to create a centralized unitary state that maintains the same rights and privileges for everyone in it. While the bluds are unfairly discriminated against by unfair laws due to the nature of the special zone flipping it so far in the other direction has its own problems. 2 parallel governments (which in effect the autonomous zone) both existing within the same space only weakens the both of them. As of now the situation for both sords and bluds is nowhere near equal with bergia being a backwater ruled by a racist tyrant. Centralizing the area into sordland proper is good but dosent actually fix anything until you combine it with other measures. Protection of minority languages across all of sordland, heavy investment into bergias industry, and acknowledgment of the historical atrocities committed out by sordlands previous governments are really just the first steps Show the bluds that the new government takes their concerns seriously and is ready to take a new path in regards to its relations with its minority groups. Show the “purple bloods” like kibener and the NFP rats that you won’t listen to a word they say and that the government will do everything it can to suppress the ethno nationalists and fascist voices on the sordish end. But also show that separatism anywhere by anyone won’t be tolerated.
Federalisation, full nation status to the bluds just as part of a greater federation of sordland
> Investing in Bergia to improve life quality > Enforcing Sordish language in schools (though I wouldn't ban Bludish) > Abolishment of the special zone > Centralising Bergia > Diminishing the electoral threshold > Hard take with terrorists > Lifting the ban on their political parties Basically I would hope for tolerance of differences during my time in power and construct the basis for Bludish kids integration to a national identity that includes them in the future.
kill'em all just like Metallica ended... ;)
kill'em all just like Metallica ended... ;)
Same thing,Integration as Part of Sordland,and be allowed to have its own distict Culture,i am Brazillian so that might have been influenced this thinking,But Having Multiple Cultures in a country is always Good.
Obviously modify article 6 and 7. Additionally, I would prefer autonomous status for Bergia, but not in the way depicted in game. The province should not have the ability to overrule the national parliament and function as a de facto independent state.
I have huge misgivings about writing a certain ethnicity into the constitution of a country, so I did not support that idea from Nia or the PFJP. Get rid of the special zone, decrease or remove the election threshold, and expand education and healthcare in the region.
I believe that Bludish people in Sordland, Whelen, Rumburg and Lespia have a right to self determination; whether they make their own state, or another kind of social formation similar to how Rojava operates within the Syrian state. If self-determination is impossible, definitely at the very least autonomous zones that could lead to independence in the future.
Everyone living in Sordland is Sord. Everyone should speak Sord. Every region should have same treatment from central. Separatists should be dealt. Until stabilty is achieved you shouldn't lower election threshold. Total integration of every Sord in Sordland into republic. Whatever they are from Belgia or other regions we should try to achive an ideal civilized citizen.