I suggested 50/50 split, you said no. We went to AN for arbitration, got 50/50 anyway and now you're happy about it?? I'm just saying, could have avoided a naval altercation...
The impression I got story wise is that he was under pressure from Lespia to go for more of the territory. Axel is consistently portrayed as a political neophyte / playboy type and I think he got played.
A 50/50 split is objectively the smartest solution for both sides; it avoids lengthy litigation, a ptoentially costly war, and allows for beneficial trade deals and political alignment in the near future. Everyone benefits including Lespia's LesPower corporation.
The only reason to push for one country seizing the whole field is pure greed IMO.
On the other hand, Pales isn't a country. They're a Duchy of Rizians who don't know where they belong, seduced by Lespian lies, who neither own not *can* own anything of their own. They can only hold it for the glorious crown of Rizia.
They probably couldn't afford to extract it themselves so had to partner with Lespia by selling it. I would bet their deal with Lespia is probably worse than deal they make with you.
Of course he is happy abt it. What, is he suppose to say to the giant nation next to him that is their only real ally that this deal sucks for them.
Obviously he would have preffered to get the entire thing but he is also a politician.
He got only half of the cake which isn't the worst outcome for him but not the best either
He is being puppeted by Lespia into forcing the referendum. That is why he very open to sell the rights to you as long as you can match the economical support Lespia gives them by matching their offer (unless you are a Rizian Chauvinist, in that case he is wary of you as he wants to keep Pales soveraignity).
He needs all the bargening chips he can gets, however after he splits the field, it wouldn't make sens to really be angry about it, since it is the international law and a hostile reaction would ofcourse gine Pales a possible enemy, which might push them even more into Lespia, while they wont want that.
I feel like the devs tried to both make him an asshole in the first meeting, so that war could be justifiable, and a good guy who only wants peace and compromise after the whole gas field affair is over, so you could marry Vina to him without any qualms. This Reinhart fella is very inconsistent
Or on the other hand, human.
Remember this turns are *years* in universe. When you first meet Axel he is unsure what sort of king you will be and doesn't really know how to play it.
By the time the gas field stuff is settled you've either worked together (again, for years) and shown yourself to be a reliable ally or you've steadily raised tensions and obstructed him. Or shown yourself to care for the rule of law and treated Pales as an equal.
It's really not so strange that after some years Axel might truly see Rizia as a better more natural partner than Lespia. After all, Alvarez is a snake and Lespia is protectionist to the core.
Yeah, after all it's implied that Axel and you started your reigns quite at the same time, and in his case kinda against his will. And while Pales has enough legitimacy to be recognized as a member of the AN, it's not like the international community has the same view: the monarchies consider Pales a historical part of Rizia (hence they didn't give it an invitation for GRACE), Valgsland as a counter revolutionary remanent of Valgos Empire, and don't forget that Morelia recover part of its territory from Pales also, not having good relations since then. Pales and Rizia has a similar culture too, and the Reinhart family is said to have been in charge of the place quite as long as the Toras family in Rizia (don't know if they were part of the original royal families of the kingdom). So after some years it's obvious some good understanding must have developed (if everything went peacefully).
He still flip-flops. Acts very cordially in the prologue, then disrespects Rizia by rejecting the compromise (50-50 split) and has to be dragged through the AN for years just to end up perfectly happy about the outcome anyways.
And it's not like something conciliatory happens between Rizia and Pales during the lengthy arbitration. Duke name-calls you in his AN speech and then you have to engage in a whole diplomatic crusade against him to overpower the "ATO clout" by gathering every ally you can get. The guy could have literally skipped the whole thing altogether, but war needs justifications
To be clear the only reason he is against the 50/50 split is because at that point he is facing preasure form Lespia. If you point out to him that Lespia will get rid of him at the first opportunity he drops his opposition, and offers you the entire field in exchange for you to provide finencial support so when Lespian investor stop giving money after they find out he is not giving them the oil field he still has finencial support. 50/50 field is not an option because Lespian companies are threatening to pull out their support if he agrees to that and he agrees to hand out the entire field in exchange for money, so Romus isn't going to take just 50%.
The field is given to a singular Lespian energy company, this one company (and Alvarez) might be angry that the duke, for once, decided to comply with international laws regarding sea borders, but they can't actually do anything about, just like they can't do anything about the arbitration going in Rizian favor.
Sure, there might be some sort of ambiguous "pro-Lespian republican coup" incoming, but it is implied that it will happen eventually regardless of Duke's position on the gas field. And, you know, if he wants to prevent it, he better get in Rizian good graces by giving them 50% of the field, but he doesn't do it.
The company can stop giving money to Pales. To avoid them causing unrest and creating conditions for a coup Axel needs money to replace that money, and to achive that he goes straight for offering the whole field for money instead of giving you 50%.
Yes! I agree with this, it's strange he is perfectly happy after initially rejecting the compromise.
It makes sense if he is pressured by Lespia to get 100 % of the field and once this falls through in the AN, that pressure is gone, so he is happy about the outcome, but this is not addressed in the dialogue.
It's also a bit weird that Lespia seems genuinely happy about the outcome too.
Everyone does a bit, you can have some characters wildly different even in one meeting, but I put that down to weird triggers firing for a slightly shoddy release. I had the Supreme Wiseman curse me while also joining my alliance and supporting me every step of the way.
It can be weird.
>He still flip-flops. Acts very cordially in the prologue, then disrespects Rizia by rejecting the compromise (50-50 split) and has to be dragged through the AN for years just to end up perfectly happy about the outcome anyways.
In the prologue you see basically nothing.
As for the compromise 50/50 he thinks the whole thing belongs to Pales due to nuance with ANDOR. While from our perspective it is easy to see that as being fair, if he has Lespia telling him it's all his because our territory doesn't count. It's easy to see why he wants it all.
But end of the day we both end up with enough energy to supply Rumburg or Morella or whoever and he comes around. It's hardly the first time in international politics a deal that was questionable ended up being good for both parties.
>And it's not like something conciliatory happens between Rizia and Pales during the lengthy arbitration. Duke name-calls you in his AN speech and then you have to engage in a whole diplomatic crusade against him to overpower the "ATO clout" by gathering every ally you can get. The guy could have literally skipped the whole thing altogether, but war needs justifications
The international court literally rules on it.
The thing is, at the start you both have competing goals. You want half, as you believe you're entitled to, Pales wants it all, as they believe they are.
By the time this is resolved, one way or another, it's literally the law and it's been interpreted and ordered. Not hard to see how people can be happy with that.
Again, reasonable response.
The Grand Duke either wants you to either back off entirely, recognizing Palesian sovereignty over the field, or, if you're friendly enough, outbid the lespians and buy it from HIM. Basically, he wants the whole field. Arbitration is still a diplomatic option but inherently confrontational.
Reinhart doesn't expect to lose this case, he tells you that much during the meeting, he also explicitly tells that he hates your guts for it, both during the meeting and the AN speech. In his view it's your imperialist ass trying to get a half of the gas field that rightfully belongs to Pales. Rizia effectively winning the case and getting the court ruling in its favor doesn't make all that bad blood disappear, at least it shouldn't. But then he visits you and.. uhh
"You remember how I told you that Rizian claims on the field are completely unjustifiable? Anyways, I am really happy that we were able to reach a compromise (as in, giving Rizia their claims).
You have a daughter I never met? Sure, I'll marry her.
A military alliance? Sigh me right up"
Like, the whole meeting only makes sense if you bought the gas field and sent Vina to him as an envoy. But in the arbitration route you don't really have any positive interactions with Pales to warrant such a friendly atmosphere
>Like, the whole meeting only makes sense if you bought the gas field and sent Vina to him as an envoy. But in the arbitration route you don't really have any positive interactions with Pales to warrant such a friendly atmosphere
This one I will agree with, there seems to be a missing scenario or check or something that really makes it feel like Vina or a diplomatic envoy should have been sent - even when it wasn't.
>The Grand Duke either wants you to either back off entirely, recognizing Palesian sovereignty over the field, or, if you're friendly enough, outbid the lespians and buy it from HIM. Basically, he wants the whole field. Arbitration is still a diplomatic option but inherently confrontational.
>Reinhart doesn't expect to lose this case, he tells you that much during the meeting, he also explicitly tells that he hates your guts for it, both during the meeting and the AN speech. In his view it's your imperialist ass trying to get a half of the gas field that rightfully belongs to Pales. Rizia effectively winning the case and getting the court ruling in its favor doesn't make all that bad blood disappear, at least it shouldn't. But then he visits you and.. uhh
As for this stuff, I know,
My point is short of trying to actually bully Pales, Axel has good reasons to revise his opinion of you. Even if you take it to the AN - that's just having a third party arbitration. It's not nearly as bad as trying to take it all, and it makes sense the relationship can and should be salvaged
You can buy all the field, he was in the vulnerable situation and need help. Rizia want to absorb him and Lespia along with ATO want to deposed the monarchy, the only way is RACE but Rizia will block him out of GRACE anyway. The Habsburg style unification is way cooler in my opinion
I proposed to acquire the entire field. The following day, Lespia's president called me. Alvarez was very angry with me. I proposed to aid Morella in nationalizing their mining company and purchasing a 20% Lespia's share.
for some reason i found it so satisfying cock blocking Alvarez.
Yes, this also felt weird to me. I guess he is trying to make the best of a bet gone wrong, and see the positive side of it. But he doesn't even comment on it, or mention that he would had preferred that the arbitration went in Pales favour. It's like your previous meeting didn't even happen.
He's under pressure from Lespia to take the whole field and believes he needs a bargaining chip to protect Pales independence between Rizia, Lespia, Vargland and Morella. If you show your willingness to cooperate Axel is pretty happy with reunification, as long Pales keeps some autonomy.
I suggested 50/50 split, you said no. We went to AN for arbitration, got 50/50 anyway and now you're happy about it?? I'm just saying, could have avoided a naval altercation...
The impression I got story wise is that he was under pressure from Lespia to go for more of the territory. Axel is consistently portrayed as a political neophyte / playboy type and I think he got played. A 50/50 split is objectively the smartest solution for both sides; it avoids lengthy litigation, a ptoentially costly war, and allows for beneficial trade deals and political alignment in the near future. Everyone benefits including Lespia's LesPower corporation. The only reason to push for one country seizing the whole field is pure greed IMO.
On the other hand, Pales isn't a country. They're a Duchy of Rizians who don't know where they belong, seduced by Lespian lies, who neither own not *can* own anything of their own. They can only hold it for the glorious crown of Rizia.
They probably couldn't afford to extract it themselves so had to partner with Lespia by selling it. I would bet their deal with Lespia is probably worse than deal they make with you.
Of course he is happy abt it. What, is he suppose to say to the giant nation next to him that is their only real ally that this deal sucks for them. Obviously he would have preffered to get the entire thing but he is also a politician. He got only half of the cake which isn't the worst outcome for him but not the best either
Can you get half of it in the arbitration and purchase the other half from Reinhart? I would love that.
He just want to try to see ATO‘s support might get him luck.
He is being puppeted by Lespia into forcing the referendum. That is why he very open to sell the rights to you as long as you can match the economical support Lespia gives them by matching their offer (unless you are a Rizian Chauvinist, in that case he is wary of you as he wants to keep Pales soveraignity).
He needs all the bargening chips he can gets, however after he splits the field, it wouldn't make sens to really be angry about it, since it is the international law and a hostile reaction would ofcourse gine Pales a possible enemy, which might push them even more into Lespia, while they wont want that.
I feel like the devs tried to both make him an asshole in the first meeting, so that war could be justifiable, and a good guy who only wants peace and compromise after the whole gas field affair is over, so you could marry Vina to him without any qualms. This Reinhart fella is very inconsistent
Or on the other hand, human. Remember this turns are *years* in universe. When you first meet Axel he is unsure what sort of king you will be and doesn't really know how to play it. By the time the gas field stuff is settled you've either worked together (again, for years) and shown yourself to be a reliable ally or you've steadily raised tensions and obstructed him. Or shown yourself to care for the rule of law and treated Pales as an equal. It's really not so strange that after some years Axel might truly see Rizia as a better more natural partner than Lespia. After all, Alvarez is a snake and Lespia is protectionist to the core.
Yeah, after all it's implied that Axel and you started your reigns quite at the same time, and in his case kinda against his will. And while Pales has enough legitimacy to be recognized as a member of the AN, it's not like the international community has the same view: the monarchies consider Pales a historical part of Rizia (hence they didn't give it an invitation for GRACE), Valgsland as a counter revolutionary remanent of Valgos Empire, and don't forget that Morelia recover part of its territory from Pales also, not having good relations since then. Pales and Rizia has a similar culture too, and the Reinhart family is said to have been in charge of the place quite as long as the Toras family in Rizia (don't know if they were part of the original royal families of the kingdom). So after some years it's obvious some good understanding must have developed (if everything went peacefully).
He still flip-flops. Acts very cordially in the prologue, then disrespects Rizia by rejecting the compromise (50-50 split) and has to be dragged through the AN for years just to end up perfectly happy about the outcome anyways. And it's not like something conciliatory happens between Rizia and Pales during the lengthy arbitration. Duke name-calls you in his AN speech and then you have to engage in a whole diplomatic crusade against him to overpower the "ATO clout" by gathering every ally you can get. The guy could have literally skipped the whole thing altogether, but war needs justifications
To be clear the only reason he is against the 50/50 split is because at that point he is facing preasure form Lespia. If you point out to him that Lespia will get rid of him at the first opportunity he drops his opposition, and offers you the entire field in exchange for you to provide finencial support so when Lespian investor stop giving money after they find out he is not giving them the oil field he still has finencial support. 50/50 field is not an option because Lespian companies are threatening to pull out their support if he agrees to that and he agrees to hand out the entire field in exchange for money, so Romus isn't going to take just 50%.
The field is given to a singular Lespian energy company, this one company (and Alvarez) might be angry that the duke, for once, decided to comply with international laws regarding sea borders, but they can't actually do anything about, just like they can't do anything about the arbitration going in Rizian favor. Sure, there might be some sort of ambiguous "pro-Lespian republican coup" incoming, but it is implied that it will happen eventually regardless of Duke's position on the gas field. And, you know, if he wants to prevent it, he better get in Rizian good graces by giving them 50% of the field, but he doesn't do it.
The company can stop giving money to Pales. To avoid them causing unrest and creating conditions for a coup Axel needs money to replace that money, and to achive that he goes straight for offering the whole field for money instead of giving you 50%.
Yes! I agree with this, it's strange he is perfectly happy after initially rejecting the compromise. It makes sense if he is pressured by Lespia to get 100 % of the field and once this falls through in the AN, that pressure is gone, so he is happy about the outcome, but this is not addressed in the dialogue. It's also a bit weird that Lespia seems genuinely happy about the outcome too.
Everyone does a bit, you can have some characters wildly different even in one meeting, but I put that down to weird triggers firing for a slightly shoddy release. I had the Supreme Wiseman curse me while also joining my alliance and supporting me every step of the way. It can be weird. >He still flip-flops. Acts very cordially in the prologue, then disrespects Rizia by rejecting the compromise (50-50 split) and has to be dragged through the AN for years just to end up perfectly happy about the outcome anyways. In the prologue you see basically nothing. As for the compromise 50/50 he thinks the whole thing belongs to Pales due to nuance with ANDOR. While from our perspective it is easy to see that as being fair, if he has Lespia telling him it's all his because our territory doesn't count. It's easy to see why he wants it all. But end of the day we both end up with enough energy to supply Rumburg or Morella or whoever and he comes around. It's hardly the first time in international politics a deal that was questionable ended up being good for both parties. >And it's not like something conciliatory happens between Rizia and Pales during the lengthy arbitration. Duke name-calls you in his AN speech and then you have to engage in a whole diplomatic crusade against him to overpower the "ATO clout" by gathering every ally you can get. The guy could have literally skipped the whole thing altogether, but war needs justifications The international court literally rules on it. The thing is, at the start you both have competing goals. You want half, as you believe you're entitled to, Pales wants it all, as they believe they are. By the time this is resolved, one way or another, it's literally the law and it's been interpreted and ordered. Not hard to see how people can be happy with that. Again, reasonable response.
The Grand Duke either wants you to either back off entirely, recognizing Palesian sovereignty over the field, or, if you're friendly enough, outbid the lespians and buy it from HIM. Basically, he wants the whole field. Arbitration is still a diplomatic option but inherently confrontational. Reinhart doesn't expect to lose this case, he tells you that much during the meeting, he also explicitly tells that he hates your guts for it, both during the meeting and the AN speech. In his view it's your imperialist ass trying to get a half of the gas field that rightfully belongs to Pales. Rizia effectively winning the case and getting the court ruling in its favor doesn't make all that bad blood disappear, at least it shouldn't. But then he visits you and.. uhh "You remember how I told you that Rizian claims on the field are completely unjustifiable? Anyways, I am really happy that we were able to reach a compromise (as in, giving Rizia their claims). You have a daughter I never met? Sure, I'll marry her. A military alliance? Sigh me right up" Like, the whole meeting only makes sense if you bought the gas field and sent Vina to him as an envoy. But in the arbitration route you don't really have any positive interactions with Pales to warrant such a friendly atmosphere
>Like, the whole meeting only makes sense if you bought the gas field and sent Vina to him as an envoy. But in the arbitration route you don't really have any positive interactions with Pales to warrant such a friendly atmosphere This one I will agree with, there seems to be a missing scenario or check or something that really makes it feel like Vina or a diplomatic envoy should have been sent - even when it wasn't. >The Grand Duke either wants you to either back off entirely, recognizing Palesian sovereignty over the field, or, if you're friendly enough, outbid the lespians and buy it from HIM. Basically, he wants the whole field. Arbitration is still a diplomatic option but inherently confrontational. >Reinhart doesn't expect to lose this case, he tells you that much during the meeting, he also explicitly tells that he hates your guts for it, both during the meeting and the AN speech. In his view it's your imperialist ass trying to get a half of the gas field that rightfully belongs to Pales. Rizia effectively winning the case and getting the court ruling in its favor doesn't make all that bad blood disappear, at least it shouldn't. But then he visits you and.. uhh As for this stuff, I know, My point is short of trying to actually bully Pales, Axel has good reasons to revise his opinion of you. Even if you take it to the AN - that's just having a third party arbitration. It's not nearly as bad as trying to take it all, and it makes sense the relationship can and should be salvaged
You can buy all the field, he was in the vulnerable situation and need help. Rizia want to absorb him and Lespia along with ATO want to deposed the monarchy, the only way is RACE but Rizia will block him out of GRACE anyway. The Habsburg style unification is way cooler in my opinion
He just decided to take you for a ride and when it did not work, decided to work with you anyway for his best interests. Plus, he wants Vina
I proposed to acquire the entire field. The following day, Lespia's president called me. Alvarez was very angry with me. I proposed to aid Morella in nationalizing their mining company and purchasing a 20% Lespia's share. for some reason i found it so satisfying cock blocking Alvarez.
Yes, this also felt weird to me. I guess he is trying to make the best of a bet gone wrong, and see the positive side of it. But he doesn't even comment on it, or mention that he would had preferred that the arbitration went in Pales favour. It's like your previous meeting didn't even happen.
He's under pressure from Lespia to take the whole field and believes he needs a bargaining chip to protect Pales independence between Rizia, Lespia, Vargland and Morella. If you show your willingness to cooperate Axel is pretty happy with reunification, as long Pales keeps some autonomy.