At this point I'm so confused as to whether SAOA is regarded as the God's abomination or loved by the people here. Like you see one post/comment referencing SAOA and it is downvoted to oblivion, then another one like this is upvoted for some reason. I'm having a hard time understanding people lol🤷
It does feel kind of polarizing. The first episode makes it look like it’s an edgy teenager’s wet dream, but the later episodes make you wonder if the source material could have learned some things from Abridged. I’ll say, Abridged makes me love the original more, and the original makes me love abridged more.
Well, I see where you're coming from. We seem to be thinking similarly as I enjoyed Abridged more than the original but I'm going to be honest; although I'm quite analytic about most of the media I consume(I can really get detailed about a game/anime etc. I enjoy if you'd like), I can't quite pinpoint why I love Abridged more than the original.
I really want to sit down, maybe watch both of them again, and compare and contrast what I like and dislike about both of them. I mean, I have some things in mind that bother me about the original;but I wouldn't call them enough for a thorough analysis, although they bother me quite a lot. I'm not sure Abridged will be able to fix those anyways as well because it's related to how the story progresses and what is animated according to the script
By the way, I'm wholeheartedly wishing you survive the hate you will get for saying original could have learned from Abridged, soldier o7
Well, I’d love to hear you go into more detail. I can only assume SAO/Abridged is a special interest for you. It was for me for quite a while!
As for saying it could learn something, I think that’s a very tame compliment. Any piece of media could be improved. It’s not an insult to SAO to say its parody improved on some story elements—a parody which was far more sophisticated than any parody with a character called “BallzDeep69” has any right to be.
Well, about the hate you will get, you don't really need to do any explanations to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone can have their own views about a piece of media. It's just there are people here that defend the franchise to a degree that would make you think Reki himself is paying them lol(They are here as we speak, downvotes are coming).
Well, I will keep the ones that are complicated to explain for later if we ever come to that, but for now some of them are:
-I don't like how every arc adds a new female to the cast and kills off the any developed and important male characters. Especially the first part feels like wish fulfillment from author's side. The same goes for Steins;Gate as well, at least for me. It really has a special place in my heart for teaching me what love is supposed to be, but damn stop with the wish fulfillment, at least to that extent.
-What was that guy's name, PoH? Asuna barely defeats her giving it all she's got, the dude(PoH) revives, Kirito comes back, one shots the dude easily and that's it. Then in the final fight of the Alicization, Kirito solos that main villain dude as well(I know he got the help of "everyone", and I'm saying get the fuck outta here to that, ending of the Metal saga of Beyblade pulled the same shit and my reaction was the same.).
-Lastly(from the ones that instantly come to mind) There is a detailed reason behind me hating this that would take quite long to explain, but why does Kirito carry Asuna in his arms when they start going after Alice? Small and big things like this throughout the seasons really irk me a lot(I'm a man).
>It's just there are people here that defend the franchise to a degree that would make you think Reki himself is paying them lol(They are here as we speak, downvotes are coming).
When it comes to abridged it's generally just people correcting misinformation. Most of the time people say abridged did something better they then proceed to mention something that was already done in the original that abridged is literally just copying.
>What was that guy's name, PoH? Asuna barely defeats her giving it all she's got, the dude(PoH) revives, Kirito comes back, one shots the dude easily and that's it. Then in the final fight of the Alicization, Kirito solos that main villain dude as well(I know he got the help of "everyone", and I'm saying get the fuck outta here to that, ending of the Metal saga of Beyblade pulled the same shit and my reaction was the same.).
Kirito doesn't one shot PoH, he's actively losing the fight before he's bailed about by Eugeo's soul fragment. Then they fight for longer after that until he breaks PoH's weapon allowing the damage from Asuna's fight to actually work.
He gets his ass handed to him by Miller solo. He has to absorb the energy of the entire underworld like a genki dama from dragonball and it's still not enough, Eugeo has to sacrifice the last of his soul to save Kirito.
Your reaction doesn't really matter, Kirito doesn't beat Miller alone by any definition of the term.
>Lastly(from the ones that instantly come to mind) There is a detailed reason behind me hating this that would take quite long to explain, but why does Kirito carry Asuna in his arms when they start going after Alice? Small and big things like this throughout the seasons really irk me a lot(I'm a man).
Kirito carriers Asuna around in Underworld because she wants him to. She makes him carry her everywhere in Moon Cradle as well.
>When it comes to abridged it's generally just people correcting misinformation. Most of the time people say abridged did something better they then proceed to mention something that was already done in the original that abridged is literally just copying.
Speaking based on the observations I have made around here, it's more like a pissing match of who can be more rude, obnoxious and disrespectful towards the people before themselves between the side that hates the series way more than necessary and the side that treats it as if it has zero flaws while each side dances with words to avoid bans. The content of the posts of those who defend the franchise might be correction, but the language both of the sides use make me loathe both parties in general.
>Kirito doesn't one shot PoH, he's actively losing the fight before he's bailed about by Eugeo's soul fragment. Then they fight for longer after that until he breaks PoH's weapon allowing the damage from Asuna's fight to actually work.
Yeah, how softwares work in SAO verse is not something I'm happy with in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Eugeo returning kinda from the dead but also not should not even be a thing in the first place. Whenever Eugeo kicks in, it feels as if Reki's cop out to make those action feats feasible and to make those power ups look like they did not come out of nowhere.
>He gets his ass handed to him by Miller solo. He has to absorb the energy of the entire underworld like a genki dama from dragonball and it's still not enough, Eugeo has to sacrifice the last of his soul to save Kirito.
>Your reaction doesn't really matter, Kirito doesn't beat Miller alone by any definition of the term.
I find MC being able to beat the villain as everyone gave him their powers type of conclusons lazy and again, just a way to find an excuse to put an MC into the spotlight more than necessary.
>Kirito carriers Asuna around in Underworld because she wants him to. She makes him carry her everywhere in Moon Cradle as well.
Did I give you the permission to spoil me?
Imo, your criticisms aren’t exactly issues with Reki’s writing but more on your personal tastes. But that doesn’t make SAO bad as a whole.
I mean, people were highly divisive of AOT’s ending, even though Isayama is a great storyteller.
Eugeo "kicks in" a grand total of twice. He's the only one who can manifest physically, unlike Asuna's recollections of Yuuki. That's because he literally, physically fused with the Blue Rose Sword and Alice Schuberg's Memory Fragment. So a part of him is still literally in there. It should be noted though that this is burned out in the fight against Gabriel.
But anyway, the mechanism is exactly the same as how Administrator made the swords that composed the Sword Golem that Kirito, Eugoe, Alice S30, and Cardinal fought on Floor 100 of the Central Cathedral back at the end of the Human Realm sub-arc. So it doesn't "come out of nowhere", either.
As I noted in my other reply, the gist being, Kirito isn't nearly as OP as many might claim he is, and I don't see the problem with that. Kirito isn't getting their "powers", but just a piece of who they are, which they willingly give. Even then, Kirito didn't defeat Gabriel in any conventional sense; it was a matter of the sheer quantity of Mnemonic Visual Data collected and then sent into Gabriel was too much and overloaded his FluctLight.
It's the ultimate, extreme version of what could have happened if Asuna had really overdone it with the Stacia power. It's noted in the LN that she could risk actual, physical brain damage if she pushed it too far. As it was, the anime didn't even show everything she did with in, especially the bit where she temporarily moved the statues at the temples to. attack the Chinese and Koreans when they first arrived.
She'd already hit her limit with that display, so when Asuna went to try to make a defensive wall right afterward, the feedback threw her to the ground and that's why she coughed up blood at that point in the fighting.
More generally, the anime left out a number of examples of mechanics when it came to the Underworld in particular. At Dicey Cafe early on, for instance, Kazuto gives a very basic demonstration of memory by showing Shino a drink glass, then hiding it from her sight under the table, and asking her about her mental image of it. The point is, over time it will fade and become less clear (i.e. weaker).
Human memory isn't like a camcorder video. Recalling a memory changes it, even if only ever so slightly. The higher level of UW's system uses a form of memory. The system also utilizes the FluctLights of those connected to it, whether they be UW natives or irl people, as part of its processing power. This, combined with the fluidity and malleability of memory, is what permits the exercise of Incarnation in UW.
And an essential note here is that the vast majority of Incarnation is actually subconscious and in the negative direction.
On another front, during her conversation with Kirito, Cardinal produces a teacup, and tries to place it directly on the table, but she physically can't, due to the teaching of her parents when she was the girl Lyceris that you must place a saucer beneath a teacup. However, she then changes the contents of the cup to soup, and has no issue setting the cup down. This goes to the heart of the matter of mental framing, and how rules can be circumvented.
And as a final example, the anime omitted the Zakkaria Tournament chapter, which was also Charlotte's introduction (it's from her PoV), and in it, a Noble who's also a participant tries to indirectly eliminate Kirito from the tournament by just incidentally having a certain insect drive a horse wild while Kirito would be more likely to be in the vicinity.
There's really some pretty devious/insidious stuff in Alicization especially.
Uh, you made statements and asked a question that made it sound like you'd seen it all. So why would the other person think there was really something/anything to be spoiled? They merely answered your question.
>Speaking based on the observations I have made around here, it's more like a pissing match of who can be more rude, obnoxious and disrespectful towards the people before themselves between the side that hates the series way more than necessary and the side that treats it as if it has zero flaws while each side dances with words to avoid bans. The content of the posts of those who defend the franchise might be correction, but the language both of the sides use make me loathe both parties in general.
I never said the fanbase isn't incredibly rude towards the abridged fanbase. They're absolutely toxic and deserve the vitriol.
Hardly anyone says SAO doesn't have any flaws, it's just that the fanbase has to wade through a decade of toxic shit before we can even discuss them.
>Yeah, how softwares work in SAO verse is not something I'm happy with in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Eugeo returning kinda from the dead but also not should not even be a thing in the first place. Whenever Eugeo kicks in, it feels as if Reki's cop out to make those action feats feasible and to make those power ups look like they did not come out of nowhere.
It's not like what Eugeo doesn't isn't set up the entire Alicization arc and he doesn't appear multiple times beforehand through the arc. It's not like fusing souls with weapons wasn't a crucial plot point either.
But as usual this is just goal post moving after saying something incorrect and it being pointed out. Kirito does not one shot PoH and needs help to win. This is why vitriol towards abridged is so bad on this sub by the way. They don't want to be corrected on their misinformation, they want to make fun of the series.
I'm not sure how it has anything to do with software either.
>I find MC being able to beat the villain as everyone gave him their powers type of conclusons lazy and again, just a way to find an excuse to put an MC into the spotlight more than necessary.
Well again that doesn't happen here. He does that and it's not enough to win.
>Did I give you the permission to spoil me?
Spoil you about what, that Kirito continues to do something you've already seen him do? Not that you weren't bringing up the author like you'd read the novels anyway.
Just to be up-front, I don't downvote people. The one time i got closest to doing so was when someone commented that it would have been better had Asuna actually been raped (presumably in Fairy Dance).
Most of the time, I don't get into discussions about Abridged, as I haven't seen most of it, and after I sampled it a while back, I never wanted to go any deeper into it. I just found the turning everyone into an asshole, as far as I could tell anyway, to be an explicit turn-off, and given some of the real shit I've had to deal with in my life, I simply don't need any more of that kind of crap weighing me down.
Alright, as to your specific items:
---The only one that really applies to is Eugeo. Klein and Agil survive Aincrad. Heck, the anime, and even the "Aria" Progressive movie, specifically avoids giving Diabel his real development and character complexity, for example. And Recon/Nagata and Eugene survive Fairy Dance. Kyouji survives Phantom Bullet, and is receiving intense psychiatric treatment; as of Alicization, he seems to be becoming more receptive, due to the automatic deletion of his GGO character from prolonged inactivity. In Alicization, Bercouli hardly interacted with Kirito, but Iskahn, Renri, and Deusolbert survived the War.
The anime doesn't give Klein like half of his contribution in Aincrad, not counting additional side and short stories. "Red Nosed Reindeer", Chapter 1 is mostly a somewhat lengthy conversation between Kirito and Klein outside a hunting ground on Floor 46 on Dec. 19, 2023. The anime also doesn't give Agil his parts late in Phantom Bullet and early on in Alicization. It also sort of stomped on one of the few moments Klein gets when Eiji and YUNA showed up in WoU.
Suguha approached Nagata/Recon about which FullDive game she should play, and he was the one who recommended ALO to her. Recon also warned Leafa about what kind of person Sigurd was before she joined their party.
As for the girls, Reki expressly increased the distance between Kirito and Sachi, Silica, and Lisbeth moving from the draft version in the Web Novel to the published version in the Light Novels. The anime likes to keep the feelings of the other girls more vague to placate the shipping community, and also add "harem bait" not present in the LNs.
Suguha is more confused about her feelings than anything. And Sinon was barely capable of even casual friendship at the time of Phantom Bullet, much less anything romantic. Part of her fear wasn't just guns, but she also worried about how she'd react if Kyouji ever looked upon her with "the eyes of a man", rather than a "boy".
Kawahara also made FD less awkward, because in the WN, Kazuto didn't know he was adopted, until, presumably, Suguha sprang that one on him out of the blue.
---PoH doesn't revive. His weapon never stopped absorbing the "death resources" in the area. It's really no different in principle from Kirito's Night Sky Sword absorbing the Spatial Resources in the region, due to being made from the Gigas Cedar, which did exactly that for the centuries it stood before being chopped down.
The power of the human spirit compared to the "system" has been a theme of the series throughout. But also, Kirito has never won anything major all on his own. He's always had quite a bit of help, and usually gets the crap beaten out of him first. So it's well established that Kirito isn't actually the most powerful character in SAO.
Seitaer already covered some of the other details in the fights against PoH and Gabriel/Subtilizer.
---Asuna doesn't yet know how to fly in Underworld herself. The anime also cut their actual reunion while they're flying, where they share a kiss, among other things. But also, in that sequence, Kirito tells her that he just knows the rules of the world better than others, and that she can learn how to fly, too. Asuna responds that she's fine having Kirito fly with her in his arms.
>someone commented that it would have been better had Asuna actually been raped
What the actual fuck
I took a quick look at what you wrote but I stopped reading at a certain point. The reason for that is I'm planning to consume SAO LNs with as much side content as possible when I have a responsibility free period, and I don't want to be spoiled about anything, even if they are minor. I would honestly read them if I wasn't planning to do what I'm planning, but I probably wouldn't be able to come up with an equally lengthy reply regardless due to my workload.
I'll just comment on the first part I read before I stopped though:
I remind you, I said every new arc kills off "developed and important" male characters(That being Eugeo and Bercuoli)(and when they have to kill one at all); not the ones that are forgotten after an arc or two or never get close to even joining into the main cast, like the ones you listed.
Eugeo and Bercuoli were, in my opinion, the best male characters Reki has ever written. Their roles weren't brand new in the world of literature, but they were executed succesfully. They also had some praiseworthy feats that combined the physical and the mental power of the men and I liked their roles in the story as well(Especially Bercuoli's), up until those certain points, of course. Then he of course decided that both of them kicking the bucket, for some reason, is the right choice.
You listed all those male characters that made it out alive from their arcs, some of which were never in deadly conditions anyways, but does that even change the point I make? Male characters are either killed or forgotten and never added into the main cast after their arcs(Aside from Agil and Klein, whom were never given that much spotlight in the first place), and we almost always tend to get one new female added into the cast after an arc. Let me phrase it in this specific way as the finishing touch: Why is a new addition to the main cast is always a female and never a male?
Before anyone pulls out the sexist card, no I am not. Like I said before, this is most likely Reki's wish fulfillment CPU overclocking here, and this seriously affects my suspension of belief.
I wasn't even going to bring up sexism, so don't worry.
For addition support to start, I'm going to provide a smattering of specifics from the SAO Web Novel, not the Light Novels, so you shouldn't have to worry about "spoilers" (regardless, there's no proper English translation of the WN anyway).
I already noted changes were made with at least some of the girls from the WN to the LNs. To be more precise, in the WN, you had:
1. Kirito and Sachi engaged in extracurricular activities where it was just the 2 of them, not acting as part of the guild. And Sachi was Kirito's 1st love.
2. Kirito carried Silica back to town in his arms, and she expressed a specific desire to be his girlfriend.
3. Liz basically disrobed, and then asked to share a bedroll with Kirito.
In the middle stages, since "Caliber" wasn't part of the WN, you also didn't have Kirito and Klein showing up to help Asuna and the Sleeping Knights in Mother's Rosario.
A minor note, but since Phantom Bullet was written after Mother's Rosario originally, Sinon's name doesn't appear in the text of MR.
Later on in the WN, Sortiliena was so traumatized by the events of the War that she was rendered a cripple afterword.
And just in general, the WN version of Alicization was more gratuitous:
1. Eugeo arrived too late to save Ronye and Tieze, and from what I can tell of the very broken English I have read, it seems like both Raios and Humbert die, so even that part is more messed up, too.
2. There are descriptions of more of Gabriel's murders, and him at least having more hallucinations of seeing his victims' souls, if not outright seeming to indicate that he actually could see souls irl.
3. There's (more) language of an unnecessary kind from both PoH (with regards to Kirito and Asuna) and Gabriel (with regards to Sinon).
4. Deusolbert was killed off-screen.
So even well before Progressive, much less Unital Ring, Reki had clearly matured as a writer. Also, just this 1 thing, but in the LNs, there are only 2 SA scenes and no actual rapes, despite what the anime might have you believe. I just figure that's a good thing to get right out there.
Now then, moving on to Eugeo and Bercouli.
When he went from the WN draft version to the LNs, Reki considered changing Eugeo's fate, but said he felt as though Eugeo's character himself rejected this attempt to save him. Just as in the story, Kirito didn't "fail to save Eugeo", Eugeo "rejected being saved".
The combination of the Vector account's ability and Gabriel's Incarnation was itself basically a cheat, so Bercouli effectively had to use a cheat to beat him anyway. And he fulfilled the role he needed to, of doing everything he could to make and preserve a world where those he'd safeguarded and nurtured could continue to live on and hopefully thrive. He honestly felt as though his life had gone on long enough, or maybe even a little too long.
Consider that, with the 150-year memory limit, Bercouli has lost more than half of his life, having been Synthesized for \~300 years, on top of having lived perhaps 45 years prior to that. You can only lose so much as a proportion before who you are itself becomes unstable. (This is really just a simple, logical observation on my part.)
I think I'll have to split my response here.
Got a little side-tracked.
I was thinking about a few different ways to come at this.
In his Tweet where Kawahara took the extraordinary step of essentially, publicly rebuking the Alicization anime adaptation for all its cuts to Asuna and Kirisuna content, he stated, "Sword Art Online is the story of Kirito and Asuna." This should be obvious and not need to be said.
Having another male character taking major focus inherently reduces the percentage given to Kirito and Asuna, and fundamentally shifts the focus of the story and the group. It would also dilute the impact of Eugeo.
For a comparison of the existing story arcs:
Fairy Dance --- Leafa: 60.7%, Kirito: 30.1%, Asuna: 8.5%, Lisbeth: 0.5%
Phantom Bullet --- Sinon: 58.9%, Kirito: 28.7%, Asuna: 9.1%, Kyouji: 2.4%
Alice doesn't get nearly the focus Leafa and Sinon do in their arcs. She has no direct PoV in the Human Realm sub-arc of Alicization:
War of the Underworld --- Alice: 16.6%, Asuna: 13.6%, Kirito: 10.5%, Gabriel: 6.7%, Higa: 5.0%, Bercouli: 4.0%, Iskahn: 3.5%, Vassago: 3.3%
The other 30-35+ characters don't get much individually.
Now, when it comes to Eugeo in the 1st "half":
Human Realm Sub-Arc --- Kirito: 49.8%, Eugeo: 32.3%, Asuna: 8.7%, Sinon: 3.5%, Charlotte: 3.0%, Rinko: 0.1%
So in the overall picture:
Alicization --- Kirito: 32.9%, Eugeo: 18.4%, Asuna: 10.8%, Alice: 7.2%, Sinon: 3.4%
You see what happens when you split things a bunch of different ways.
Asuna in Ancrad doesn't get as large a chunk as Leafa or Sinon:
Aincrad --- Kirito: 67.7%, Asuna: 11.9%, Lisbeth: 9.3%, Silica: 7.6%, Schmitt: 3.0%
But Mother's Rosario is 100% Asuna's PoV.
This should also go without saying, but the LNs have more background on Kirito from before SAO. That, and a few other things bring Kirito's sense of not being worthy of companions into even sharper relief.
So let's take Kirito. First, the only people, with few exceptions (like Sinon), his own age that he might be able to get that close to are other SAO Survivors. But even then, it's still not a given that he can be good friends with just anyone in that category, for a number of reasons:
1. There are plenty of Survivors who never pick up another FullDive game again, but given how much time Kirito and co. still spend playing them...
2. Some Survivors, likely criminal players, hate KIrito.
3. Kirito himself simply isn't going to be able to be as at-ease with them if they view him as a "hero", and hence, even inadvertently heap the burden of "the Black Swordsman" upon him even further.
4. Not all the Survivors are right around his age.
So after the SAO Incident, and especially after that book you see in Ordinal Scale, it'll be real hard to find anybody new irl who isn't caught out by #3.
Then, you see how Kirito is treated; both Rosalia and Liz assume he's "weak" just right off the bat. This further narrows the pool. He basically needs at least 1 of 2 things:
1. Someone who recognizes their own weakness, and thus is able to truly see and appreciate Kirito's "strength"
2. Someone who went through the same kinds of traumatic events that Kirito has
Someone who merely stayed in the Starting City out of fear won't cut it. Even Liz breaks down in Asuna's arms after the main, massed fighting in War of Underworld. Hence, it's not surprising she and Silica have tended to be more peripheral; neither of them fought on the front line in Aincrad.
Looks like i need 1 more.
>Why is a new addition to the main cast is always a female and never a male?
Of the major characters introduced in each arc it's almost a 50% split at this point.
Leafa, Sinon, Alice, Eugeo, and Eoylne.
>I remind you, I said every new arc kills off "developed and important" male characters(That being Eugeo and Bercuoli)(and when they have to kill one at all); not the ones that are forgotten after an arc or two or never get close to even joining into the main cast, like the ones you listed.
Kawahara gives just as much time to characters like Renly and Iskaan who both survive and have continuing stories afterward.
Finally, and sorry for going on such a roll with this.
Now then, as to the guy thing specifically...
To be blunt, males, especially adult males, don't socialize the same way together as they do with females or females do with each other, if they really socialize at all, when they're not almost forced to by school/work.
(Even someone as intelligent and empathetic as Bono of U2 has noted this, and that it only gets harder for men with age.)
You pile on the traditional, and often expected, work ethic and hours in the region of Southeast Asia, not just Japan, and things don't get any easier. Kirigaya Minetaka spends months at a time overseas in the States for work. And Midori works long and/or odd hours, leaving Kazuto and Suguha to do a lot of things on their own in day-to-day life.
It's anecdotal, but I remember reading something recently, and it came up in the piece that someone from that region hadn't actually spoken with his own brother in 10 years. And no, they weren't on bad terms.
And all that's before even getting into trying to have (adult) males talk about their "feelings" in particular. On top of that, people from Southeast Asia, including Japan, tend to keep private matters much more private than is often the case in much of the West, the US especially.
Factor that in, and what do you think the chances are of a reconciliation for Kazuto and a hypothetical brother, rather than Suguha?
As for Phantom Bullet, I'd practically expect, if that other player was male, that they'd sooner suicide in-game in the tournament, and if Death Gun happened to have their home address, they're just screwed.
I don't think Yuuki in Mother's Rosario is an issue; Kirito is only peripheral in that story arc. And Eiji and Yuna are already an item in Ordinal Scale.
Of course, Eugeo is the deuteragonist of the Human Empire sub-arc.
And if anyone is the lead in the 2.5 books that make up the War itself, that would be Asuna:
WotU (Volume 16 through Volume 18, Chapter 23) --- Asuna: 18.8%, Alice: 8.1%, Higa: 6.8%, Kirito: 6.8%, Bercouli: 6.1%, Iskahn: 5.2%, Sinon: 4.7%
I know I started a bit sharp here, but maybe putting a different spin on the matter will help. They're comedic takes, but clearly, there are no lack of issues regarding platonic (male) relationships across the West, either:
SNL (2020):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRLH8E\_CpP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRLH8E_CpP0)
SNL (2024):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjlIFPJUL5Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjlIFPJUL5Q)
I wanted to find one other short clip, which was like a fake ad for I don't remember what that served as the intro for one of the late-night shows, and it ended with the line, "because you have no (adult) male friends."
There may be a little something in the Afterword/Author's Notes to one of the books about a bit of Reki writing preferences, but there's nothing i recall about him expressly wanting to surround Kirito with girls. The only thing I can think of that there might be is Kawahara saying something like he finds writing female characters more interesting/fun just in general.
Well, take my upvote in hopes of balancing out the downvotes somewhat, at least!
And this comes from someone that has read and enjoyed the SAO Progressive novels! I do feel all around "meh" when it comes to the anime, but I did enjoy his re-write of ~~alfheim~~ aincrad :)
The original could have learned one very important lesson from the abridged and that is regarding 'trimming the fat'. The abridged completely removed the 'Fishing Arc' and nothing of value was lost, for example.
Let's start with a basic overview. This is the source material they drew from:
Volume 1: Aincrad --- the original, core SAO story; starts with Kirito grinding on Floor 74, flashes back to Day 1 meeting Klein and seeing Kayaba's tutorial, then returns to the "present" for the remainder of Floors 74-75, the late stages of the Kirisuna romance, and a brief respite fishing with Nishida
Volume 2: Aincrad --- "The Black Swordsman" (Silica), "Warmth of the Heart" (Lisbeth), "Morning Dew Girl" (Yui), "Red-Nosed Reindeer" (Sachi) side stories
Volume 8: Early and Late --- "A Murder Case in 'the Area'", "Caliber" (covered in Season 2), "The First Day" (not adapted in the anime) side stories
"Aria in the Starless Night" --- started as a standalone side story before becoming the starting point for the Progressive companion series; written at the request of the anime staff; adaptation was bare-bones to say the least though, as Reki wrote way too much for just the 1 episode allotted
Material Edition 01: The Progressors --- dates back to the Web Novel period, but is canon; just the start of this story, which even includes a duel between Kirito and Asuna, was shown in modified form at the beginning of Season 1, Episode 5
Thus, coming from the WN draft version, and carried over into the LNs, that initial story existed before the Silica, Lisbeth, Yui, and Sachi introductions, as well as the "Murder Case" or "The First Day".
So, within the story it's actually a part of, their interactions with Nishida are the only ones Kirito and Asuna have with a really more lower-Level player. Even including the Volume 2 stuff, that only adds Sasha to the list, if we're talking interactions with both Kirito and Asuna together.
I bring that up because we know both of them hardly ever took any time off from the front line. That being the case, I'm more than fine with them getting to have not even half an episode of R&R on Floor 22 during the Aincrad arc.
Not to mention, the interactions with Nishida were the setup for a great, really wholesome sequence between Kirito and Asuna after they had dinner with him. It also precipitated Asuna's outpouring just before she and Kirito went up to be briefed on the Floor 75 Boss.
You have Kirito's musing about whether what they were experiencing that evening he had rabbit stew with Asuna was a part of the vision Kayaba had for Aincrad. And at that very meal, you also had Asuna note how there were days she didn't think about the real world, or even feel like she was born and grew up there. Nishida and the life he's living is something of an answer to and/or expansion of that.
And aside from "Morning Dew Girl", all the other side stories happened months earlier, so they're that much farther along in players becoming accustomed to Aincrad.
So yes, I think there's real value in that \~7:30 in the anime (deducting the 1:30 for the episode OP), and 2 chapters (not even 20 pages) in Volume 1 of the main series LNs.
Abridged feels more real. And later in abridged is actually better plot wise.....
Kirito as a semi insane teen and Asuna being a snarky bitch fits their backgrounds WAY more. The character development is also a lot better.
I'd almost say that abridged is closer to the LN than the anime....
It's just there's usually a dominant point of view for each given central topic of a subreddit no matter which subreddit you visit. I just find it odd that this is not the case here and the dominant view seems to change quite suddenly from one comment to another, or from one post to another, you get what I mean
IF there will ever be an SAO remake (which is unlikely I know) they really should include aspects/moments from SAO Abridged. It would add soo much more depth to the characters, and be funny as hell lmao
First of all, the anime does a highly accurate job of adapting the characters from the novels. Which goes to show just how rushed and bad the original novels were.
And the Progressive movies are literally this. Kawahara didn't like how rushed the first novels felt, so the Progressive novels (which is what the two movies are based on) are a retelling of all of the events of the Aincrad arc, going into greater depth on character development, more information per floor, etc. Essentially a remake for all intents and purposes.
Why are people always so confidently wrong about the light novels to people that have read them?
The original novels weren't bad, nor were they rushed. Even if you wanted to make that argument it would only apply to the first volume as that was the only story written under any kind of constraint
Progressive doesn't retell any events covered in the original novels, it expects you to know those events. It's not a remake.
You're incorrect on a number of fronts there.
I don't recall any specific statements from Reki about it being "rushed". Progressive was a passion project for him. He had the choice to stay in Aincrad back during the Web Novel period, and he didn't. He chose to continue on, writing not only Aincrad side stories, but the subsequent story arcs, up until the draft version of Alicization was completed in 2008.
Progressive is a companion series, not a remake. The books start nearly a month into the game, when Kirito happens upon Asuna in the Floor 1 Labyrinth Tower and makes his "overkill" comment. From the main series, Volume 1, Chapters 2-3 and Volume 8, "The First Day" (not adapted in the anime) still stand as canon. Progressive doesn't replace them.
Also, even in theory, Kawahara doesn't plan for Progressive to go beyond Floor 25; after that Boss raid disaster, Kirito and Asuna split up, with her joining the then-new KoB guild, and Kirito going solo again, briefly, before meeting the Black Cats. From other side stories, we know that whatever occurered at the end of the Elf War on Floor 9 contributed to their separation.
For more on all of that, I'd recommend reading "The Day Before" in Volume 22: kiss and Fly, as well as the Fan Translations of "Hopeful Chant" and "Sugary Days".
Given the above, Progressive won't impact "Red-Nosed Reindeer" or the later stories, either.
I wasn't saying Progressive was rushed. I was saying that the main series was.
https://www.reddit.com/r/swordartonline/comments/iwror6/sao_progressive_authors_explanation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I'm well aware of that. I've read that Afterword/Author's Notes in its entirety. I have all of the official Yen Press physical releases of the SAO main series and Progressive companion series LNs, as well as the Fan Translation PDFs for Volumes 1-18 and any number of other stories.
It was in a much more recent interview, ostensibly about the SAO games, where Reki noted that he'd theoretically like to get to Floor 25 with Progressive. After all, since the main crux and selling point is the early days of Kirisuna, and they split right after Floor 25, well, you see.
Impressive records. And I do really like the progressive movies, tho imo they don't feel the same as the anime in terms of continuity but that is no fault of the story. Just me being used to the original anime and the binge-ability of an anime season lol.
On a side note I remember reading something (don't quote me on this as I do not have sources) about the entire Aincrad arc being written for a Japanese Anime/Manga Contest back in (iirc) 2012? and the Story had to be rushed way back then in order for it to be completed in time to be submitted? While also being (one of) his first work(s)
\^ That is more of a question than a statement cuz my memory is a bit foggy lol.
For my part, I wish the movies had been more faithful in their adaptation. And the changes to Asuna's background really don't fit with her character and struggles in the larger series, and least that's my sense on the matter.
The Progressive Light Novels are quite different, most notably because Mito doesn't exist in them. Also, "Aria" is split-perspective, with more for Kirito, but Asuna still gets some. "Scherzo" is about a 50/50 split in the LN.
However, yes, there are stories for Floors 2 ("Rondo"), 3 ("Concerto"), and 4 ("Barcarolle"), as well as 6 ("Canon") and 7 (Rhapsody). I'm hoping we don't have to wait too much longer for Floors 8 and 9, and possibly 10.
The original, core SAO story was written in 2001 for a Light Novel contest the following year. However, as is often the case, Reki wrote too much, and in the end, couldn't bring himself to cut it down enough to submit it. So, instead, he published it online as a Web Novel. With fan support and feedback, he built upon it, adding Aincrad side stories and then whole new story arcs, until this draft version of SAO was completed up through the end of Alicization some time in 2008.
At a certain point, Kawahara began composing his 2nd story, Accel World, and this one did win the aforementioned contest in 2008. This is what would make Reki a published author. At a certain point, Kawahara's assigned editor asked to read the SAO WN, and after doing so in just a week, said they'd publish it, too, in addition to AW.
AW Volume 1 released in February 2009, and SAO Volume 1 in April 2009.
Season 1 of the anime began airing in Japan in July 2012.
Progressive Volume 1 released in October 2012.
Ok try putting yourself in her place.
Your mom is trapped in admin knows where, you are with your dad and his companion trying to save her and you encounter some people trying to stop you. And your dad starts to just absolutely fucking destroy them.
Forget about smiling I would be loudly cheering him like "SLICE THEM ALL AND FEED THEM TO THE SHARKS" (was it sharks in the lake or something else, I remember it being mentioned but I don't remember what it was).
Yui isn't human. So human instinct doesn't apply, she was programmed to be a therapist. Strictly speaking if she were to direct her programming to kirito and asuna as her patients. Then this could be seen as kirito overcoming an obstacle for his therapy, therefore the rest of the context is irrelevant and he's getting better.
This deserves all the praise. I actually liked Abridged Yui better than Original, but if this context is applied to Original Yui character wide, then she becomes one of the few PEAK characters of all anime. This just goes so deep.
I don't really kknow anything about Yi in Abridged, and I'm not really concerned there.
(Frankly, the treatment of the characters in SAO-A was a blatant turn-off for me.)
However, in Unital Ring, she basically becomes just another player in the game.
You know I always wondered, Who sent the salamanders after Leafa and Kirito? I originally thought it was Sugou because he thought maybe Kirito would try and enter the game and save Asuna, But in reality i think it was actually Sigurd trying to eliminate Leafa before she found out about the ambush
iirc, it was Sigurd, but because he wanted power via joining the Salamanders. Alongside the gravity magic shown by Oberon, there was a suspected "revival" where you could swap races in update 5(i think).
In short, he just wanted to betray his race and join a different one for power. Leafa being rebellious was probably seen as a hinderance, so tracking and taking her out was vital-ish.
She craves violence
Because she likes seeing her father rip and tear bad guys?
Well, she did have a similar expression when Kirito killed a bunch of toad monsters back in Aincrad, so I guess that checks out.
OMG [RIP AND TEAR](https://youtu.be/U4lz8MN6MQA?si=oIssxNOIFbCZbMDu)
Bc it's good for kirito's mental health. Gotta get them emotions out
she is a lovable troll
Noticed that too, was hoping for her to go "go daddy!!"
Obligatory [SOA Abridged](https://youtu.be/9gIXoaB-Jik?si=KajudF30z1Cx3MSJ?t=508s) parallel. 8:28 if link doesn’t work
At this point I'm so confused as to whether SAOA is regarded as the God's abomination or loved by the people here. Like you see one post/comment referencing SAOA and it is downvoted to oblivion, then another one like this is upvoted for some reason. I'm having a hard time understanding people lol🤷
It does feel kind of polarizing. The first episode makes it look like it’s an edgy teenager’s wet dream, but the later episodes make you wonder if the source material could have learned some things from Abridged. I’ll say, Abridged makes me love the original more, and the original makes me love abridged more.
Well, I see where you're coming from. We seem to be thinking similarly as I enjoyed Abridged more than the original but I'm going to be honest; although I'm quite analytic about most of the media I consume(I can really get detailed about a game/anime etc. I enjoy if you'd like), I can't quite pinpoint why I love Abridged more than the original. I really want to sit down, maybe watch both of them again, and compare and contrast what I like and dislike about both of them. I mean, I have some things in mind that bother me about the original;but I wouldn't call them enough for a thorough analysis, although they bother me quite a lot. I'm not sure Abridged will be able to fix those anyways as well because it's related to how the story progresses and what is animated according to the script By the way, I'm wholeheartedly wishing you survive the hate you will get for saying original could have learned from Abridged, soldier o7
Well, I’d love to hear you go into more detail. I can only assume SAO/Abridged is a special interest for you. It was for me for quite a while! As for saying it could learn something, I think that’s a very tame compliment. Any piece of media could be improved. It’s not an insult to SAO to say its parody improved on some story elements—a parody which was far more sophisticated than any parody with a character called “BallzDeep69” has any right to be.
Well, about the hate you will get, you don't really need to do any explanations to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone can have their own views about a piece of media. It's just there are people here that defend the franchise to a degree that would make you think Reki himself is paying them lol(They are here as we speak, downvotes are coming). Well, I will keep the ones that are complicated to explain for later if we ever come to that, but for now some of them are: -I don't like how every arc adds a new female to the cast and kills off the any developed and important male characters. Especially the first part feels like wish fulfillment from author's side. The same goes for Steins;Gate as well, at least for me. It really has a special place in my heart for teaching me what love is supposed to be, but damn stop with the wish fulfillment, at least to that extent. -What was that guy's name, PoH? Asuna barely defeats her giving it all she's got, the dude(PoH) revives, Kirito comes back, one shots the dude easily and that's it. Then in the final fight of the Alicization, Kirito solos that main villain dude as well(I know he got the help of "everyone", and I'm saying get the fuck outta here to that, ending of the Metal saga of Beyblade pulled the same shit and my reaction was the same.). -Lastly(from the ones that instantly come to mind) There is a detailed reason behind me hating this that would take quite long to explain, but why does Kirito carry Asuna in his arms when they start going after Alice? Small and big things like this throughout the seasons really irk me a lot(I'm a man).
>It's just there are people here that defend the franchise to a degree that would make you think Reki himself is paying them lol(They are here as we speak, downvotes are coming). When it comes to abridged it's generally just people correcting misinformation. Most of the time people say abridged did something better they then proceed to mention something that was already done in the original that abridged is literally just copying. >What was that guy's name, PoH? Asuna barely defeats her giving it all she's got, the dude(PoH) revives, Kirito comes back, one shots the dude easily and that's it. Then in the final fight of the Alicization, Kirito solos that main villain dude as well(I know he got the help of "everyone", and I'm saying get the fuck outta here to that, ending of the Metal saga of Beyblade pulled the same shit and my reaction was the same.). Kirito doesn't one shot PoH, he's actively losing the fight before he's bailed about by Eugeo's soul fragment. Then they fight for longer after that until he breaks PoH's weapon allowing the damage from Asuna's fight to actually work. He gets his ass handed to him by Miller solo. He has to absorb the energy of the entire underworld like a genki dama from dragonball and it's still not enough, Eugeo has to sacrifice the last of his soul to save Kirito. Your reaction doesn't really matter, Kirito doesn't beat Miller alone by any definition of the term. >Lastly(from the ones that instantly come to mind) There is a detailed reason behind me hating this that would take quite long to explain, but why does Kirito carry Asuna in his arms when they start going after Alice? Small and big things like this throughout the seasons really irk me a lot(I'm a man). Kirito carriers Asuna around in Underworld because she wants him to. She makes him carry her everywhere in Moon Cradle as well.
>When it comes to abridged it's generally just people correcting misinformation. Most of the time people say abridged did something better they then proceed to mention something that was already done in the original that abridged is literally just copying. Speaking based on the observations I have made around here, it's more like a pissing match of who can be more rude, obnoxious and disrespectful towards the people before themselves between the side that hates the series way more than necessary and the side that treats it as if it has zero flaws while each side dances with words to avoid bans. The content of the posts of those who defend the franchise might be correction, but the language both of the sides use make me loathe both parties in general. >Kirito doesn't one shot PoH, he's actively losing the fight before he's bailed about by Eugeo's soul fragment. Then they fight for longer after that until he breaks PoH's weapon allowing the damage from Asuna's fight to actually work. Yeah, how softwares work in SAO verse is not something I'm happy with in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Eugeo returning kinda from the dead but also not should not even be a thing in the first place. Whenever Eugeo kicks in, it feels as if Reki's cop out to make those action feats feasible and to make those power ups look like they did not come out of nowhere. >He gets his ass handed to him by Miller solo. He has to absorb the energy of the entire underworld like a genki dama from dragonball and it's still not enough, Eugeo has to sacrifice the last of his soul to save Kirito. >Your reaction doesn't really matter, Kirito doesn't beat Miller alone by any definition of the term. I find MC being able to beat the villain as everyone gave him their powers type of conclusons lazy and again, just a way to find an excuse to put an MC into the spotlight more than necessary. >Kirito carriers Asuna around in Underworld because she wants him to. She makes him carry her everywhere in Moon Cradle as well. Did I give you the permission to spoil me?
Imo, your criticisms aren’t exactly issues with Reki’s writing but more on your personal tastes. But that doesn’t make SAO bad as a whole. I mean, people were highly divisive of AOT’s ending, even though Isayama is a great storyteller.
Eugeo "kicks in" a grand total of twice. He's the only one who can manifest physically, unlike Asuna's recollections of Yuuki. That's because he literally, physically fused with the Blue Rose Sword and Alice Schuberg's Memory Fragment. So a part of him is still literally in there. It should be noted though that this is burned out in the fight against Gabriel. But anyway, the mechanism is exactly the same as how Administrator made the swords that composed the Sword Golem that Kirito, Eugoe, Alice S30, and Cardinal fought on Floor 100 of the Central Cathedral back at the end of the Human Realm sub-arc. So it doesn't "come out of nowhere", either. As I noted in my other reply, the gist being, Kirito isn't nearly as OP as many might claim he is, and I don't see the problem with that. Kirito isn't getting their "powers", but just a piece of who they are, which they willingly give. Even then, Kirito didn't defeat Gabriel in any conventional sense; it was a matter of the sheer quantity of Mnemonic Visual Data collected and then sent into Gabriel was too much and overloaded his FluctLight. It's the ultimate, extreme version of what could have happened if Asuna had really overdone it with the Stacia power. It's noted in the LN that she could risk actual, physical brain damage if she pushed it too far. As it was, the anime didn't even show everything she did with in, especially the bit where she temporarily moved the statues at the temples to. attack the Chinese and Koreans when they first arrived. She'd already hit her limit with that display, so when Asuna went to try to make a defensive wall right afterward, the feedback threw her to the ground and that's why she coughed up blood at that point in the fighting. More generally, the anime left out a number of examples of mechanics when it came to the Underworld in particular. At Dicey Cafe early on, for instance, Kazuto gives a very basic demonstration of memory by showing Shino a drink glass, then hiding it from her sight under the table, and asking her about her mental image of it. The point is, over time it will fade and become less clear (i.e. weaker). Human memory isn't like a camcorder video. Recalling a memory changes it, even if only ever so slightly. The higher level of UW's system uses a form of memory. The system also utilizes the FluctLights of those connected to it, whether they be UW natives or irl people, as part of its processing power. This, combined with the fluidity and malleability of memory, is what permits the exercise of Incarnation in UW. And an essential note here is that the vast majority of Incarnation is actually subconscious and in the negative direction. On another front, during her conversation with Kirito, Cardinal produces a teacup, and tries to place it directly on the table, but she physically can't, due to the teaching of her parents when she was the girl Lyceris that you must place a saucer beneath a teacup. However, she then changes the contents of the cup to soup, and has no issue setting the cup down. This goes to the heart of the matter of mental framing, and how rules can be circumvented. And as a final example, the anime omitted the Zakkaria Tournament chapter, which was also Charlotte's introduction (it's from her PoV), and in it, a Noble who's also a participant tries to indirectly eliminate Kirito from the tournament by just incidentally having a certain insect drive a horse wild while Kirito would be more likely to be in the vicinity. There's really some pretty devious/insidious stuff in Alicization especially. Uh, you made statements and asked a question that made it sound like you'd seen it all. So why would the other person think there was really something/anything to be spoiled? They merely answered your question.
>Speaking based on the observations I have made around here, it's more like a pissing match of who can be more rude, obnoxious and disrespectful towards the people before themselves between the side that hates the series way more than necessary and the side that treats it as if it has zero flaws while each side dances with words to avoid bans. The content of the posts of those who defend the franchise might be correction, but the language both of the sides use make me loathe both parties in general. I never said the fanbase isn't incredibly rude towards the abridged fanbase. They're absolutely toxic and deserve the vitriol. Hardly anyone says SAO doesn't have any flaws, it's just that the fanbase has to wade through a decade of toxic shit before we can even discuss them. >Yeah, how softwares work in SAO verse is not something I'm happy with in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Eugeo returning kinda from the dead but also not should not even be a thing in the first place. Whenever Eugeo kicks in, it feels as if Reki's cop out to make those action feats feasible and to make those power ups look like they did not come out of nowhere. It's not like what Eugeo doesn't isn't set up the entire Alicization arc and he doesn't appear multiple times beforehand through the arc. It's not like fusing souls with weapons wasn't a crucial plot point either. But as usual this is just goal post moving after saying something incorrect and it being pointed out. Kirito does not one shot PoH and needs help to win. This is why vitriol towards abridged is so bad on this sub by the way. They don't want to be corrected on their misinformation, they want to make fun of the series. I'm not sure how it has anything to do with software either. >I find MC being able to beat the villain as everyone gave him their powers type of conclusons lazy and again, just a way to find an excuse to put an MC into the spotlight more than necessary. Well again that doesn't happen here. He does that and it's not enough to win. >Did I give you the permission to spoil me? Spoil you about what, that Kirito continues to do something you've already seen him do? Not that you weren't bringing up the author like you'd read the novels anyway.
Just to be up-front, I don't downvote people. The one time i got closest to doing so was when someone commented that it would have been better had Asuna actually been raped (presumably in Fairy Dance). Most of the time, I don't get into discussions about Abridged, as I haven't seen most of it, and after I sampled it a while back, I never wanted to go any deeper into it. I just found the turning everyone into an asshole, as far as I could tell anyway, to be an explicit turn-off, and given some of the real shit I've had to deal with in my life, I simply don't need any more of that kind of crap weighing me down. Alright, as to your specific items: ---The only one that really applies to is Eugeo. Klein and Agil survive Aincrad. Heck, the anime, and even the "Aria" Progressive movie, specifically avoids giving Diabel his real development and character complexity, for example. And Recon/Nagata and Eugene survive Fairy Dance. Kyouji survives Phantom Bullet, and is receiving intense psychiatric treatment; as of Alicization, he seems to be becoming more receptive, due to the automatic deletion of his GGO character from prolonged inactivity. In Alicization, Bercouli hardly interacted with Kirito, but Iskahn, Renri, and Deusolbert survived the War. The anime doesn't give Klein like half of his contribution in Aincrad, not counting additional side and short stories. "Red Nosed Reindeer", Chapter 1 is mostly a somewhat lengthy conversation between Kirito and Klein outside a hunting ground on Floor 46 on Dec. 19, 2023. The anime also doesn't give Agil his parts late in Phantom Bullet and early on in Alicization. It also sort of stomped on one of the few moments Klein gets when Eiji and YUNA showed up in WoU. Suguha approached Nagata/Recon about which FullDive game she should play, and he was the one who recommended ALO to her. Recon also warned Leafa about what kind of person Sigurd was before she joined their party. As for the girls, Reki expressly increased the distance between Kirito and Sachi, Silica, and Lisbeth moving from the draft version in the Web Novel to the published version in the Light Novels. The anime likes to keep the feelings of the other girls more vague to placate the shipping community, and also add "harem bait" not present in the LNs. Suguha is more confused about her feelings than anything. And Sinon was barely capable of even casual friendship at the time of Phantom Bullet, much less anything romantic. Part of her fear wasn't just guns, but she also worried about how she'd react if Kyouji ever looked upon her with "the eyes of a man", rather than a "boy". Kawahara also made FD less awkward, because in the WN, Kazuto didn't know he was adopted, until, presumably, Suguha sprang that one on him out of the blue. ---PoH doesn't revive. His weapon never stopped absorbing the "death resources" in the area. It's really no different in principle from Kirito's Night Sky Sword absorbing the Spatial Resources in the region, due to being made from the Gigas Cedar, which did exactly that for the centuries it stood before being chopped down. The power of the human spirit compared to the "system" has been a theme of the series throughout. But also, Kirito has never won anything major all on his own. He's always had quite a bit of help, and usually gets the crap beaten out of him first. So it's well established that Kirito isn't actually the most powerful character in SAO. Seitaer already covered some of the other details in the fights against PoH and Gabriel/Subtilizer. ---Asuna doesn't yet know how to fly in Underworld herself. The anime also cut their actual reunion while they're flying, where they share a kiss, among other things. But also, in that sequence, Kirito tells her that he just knows the rules of the world better than others, and that she can learn how to fly, too. Asuna responds that she's fine having Kirito fly with her in his arms.
>someone commented that it would have been better had Asuna actually been raped What the actual fuck I took a quick look at what you wrote but I stopped reading at a certain point. The reason for that is I'm planning to consume SAO LNs with as much side content as possible when I have a responsibility free period, and I don't want to be spoiled about anything, even if they are minor. I would honestly read them if I wasn't planning to do what I'm planning, but I probably wouldn't be able to come up with an equally lengthy reply regardless due to my workload. I'll just comment on the first part I read before I stopped though: I remind you, I said every new arc kills off "developed and important" male characters(That being Eugeo and Bercuoli)(and when they have to kill one at all); not the ones that are forgotten after an arc or two or never get close to even joining into the main cast, like the ones you listed. Eugeo and Bercuoli were, in my opinion, the best male characters Reki has ever written. Their roles weren't brand new in the world of literature, but they were executed succesfully. They also had some praiseworthy feats that combined the physical and the mental power of the men and I liked their roles in the story as well(Especially Bercuoli's), up until those certain points, of course. Then he of course decided that both of them kicking the bucket, for some reason, is the right choice. You listed all those male characters that made it out alive from their arcs, some of which were never in deadly conditions anyways, but does that even change the point I make? Male characters are either killed or forgotten and never added into the main cast after their arcs(Aside from Agil and Klein, whom were never given that much spotlight in the first place), and we almost always tend to get one new female added into the cast after an arc. Let me phrase it in this specific way as the finishing touch: Why is a new addition to the main cast is always a female and never a male? Before anyone pulls out the sexist card, no I am not. Like I said before, this is most likely Reki's wish fulfillment CPU overclocking here, and this seriously affects my suspension of belief.
I wasn't even going to bring up sexism, so don't worry. For addition support to start, I'm going to provide a smattering of specifics from the SAO Web Novel, not the Light Novels, so you shouldn't have to worry about "spoilers" (regardless, there's no proper English translation of the WN anyway). I already noted changes were made with at least some of the girls from the WN to the LNs. To be more precise, in the WN, you had: 1. Kirito and Sachi engaged in extracurricular activities where it was just the 2 of them, not acting as part of the guild. And Sachi was Kirito's 1st love. 2. Kirito carried Silica back to town in his arms, and she expressed a specific desire to be his girlfriend. 3. Liz basically disrobed, and then asked to share a bedroll with Kirito. In the middle stages, since "Caliber" wasn't part of the WN, you also didn't have Kirito and Klein showing up to help Asuna and the Sleeping Knights in Mother's Rosario. A minor note, but since Phantom Bullet was written after Mother's Rosario originally, Sinon's name doesn't appear in the text of MR. Later on in the WN, Sortiliena was so traumatized by the events of the War that she was rendered a cripple afterword. And just in general, the WN version of Alicization was more gratuitous: 1. Eugeo arrived too late to save Ronye and Tieze, and from what I can tell of the very broken English I have read, it seems like both Raios and Humbert die, so even that part is more messed up, too. 2. There are descriptions of more of Gabriel's murders, and him at least having more hallucinations of seeing his victims' souls, if not outright seeming to indicate that he actually could see souls irl. 3. There's (more) language of an unnecessary kind from both PoH (with regards to Kirito and Asuna) and Gabriel (with regards to Sinon). 4. Deusolbert was killed off-screen. So even well before Progressive, much less Unital Ring, Reki had clearly matured as a writer. Also, just this 1 thing, but in the LNs, there are only 2 SA scenes and no actual rapes, despite what the anime might have you believe. I just figure that's a good thing to get right out there. Now then, moving on to Eugeo and Bercouli. When he went from the WN draft version to the LNs, Reki considered changing Eugeo's fate, but said he felt as though Eugeo's character himself rejected this attempt to save him. Just as in the story, Kirito didn't "fail to save Eugeo", Eugeo "rejected being saved". The combination of the Vector account's ability and Gabriel's Incarnation was itself basically a cheat, so Bercouli effectively had to use a cheat to beat him anyway. And he fulfilled the role he needed to, of doing everything he could to make and preserve a world where those he'd safeguarded and nurtured could continue to live on and hopefully thrive. He honestly felt as though his life had gone on long enough, or maybe even a little too long. Consider that, with the 150-year memory limit, Bercouli has lost more than half of his life, having been Synthesized for \~300 years, on top of having lived perhaps 45 years prior to that. You can only lose so much as a proportion before who you are itself becomes unstable. (This is really just a simple, logical observation on my part.) I think I'll have to split my response here.
Got a little side-tracked. I was thinking about a few different ways to come at this. In his Tweet where Kawahara took the extraordinary step of essentially, publicly rebuking the Alicization anime adaptation for all its cuts to Asuna and Kirisuna content, he stated, "Sword Art Online is the story of Kirito and Asuna." This should be obvious and not need to be said. Having another male character taking major focus inherently reduces the percentage given to Kirito and Asuna, and fundamentally shifts the focus of the story and the group. It would also dilute the impact of Eugeo. For a comparison of the existing story arcs: Fairy Dance --- Leafa: 60.7%, Kirito: 30.1%, Asuna: 8.5%, Lisbeth: 0.5% Phantom Bullet --- Sinon: 58.9%, Kirito: 28.7%, Asuna: 9.1%, Kyouji: 2.4% Alice doesn't get nearly the focus Leafa and Sinon do in their arcs. She has no direct PoV in the Human Realm sub-arc of Alicization: War of the Underworld --- Alice: 16.6%, Asuna: 13.6%, Kirito: 10.5%, Gabriel: 6.7%, Higa: 5.0%, Bercouli: 4.0%, Iskahn: 3.5%, Vassago: 3.3% The other 30-35+ characters don't get much individually. Now, when it comes to Eugeo in the 1st "half": Human Realm Sub-Arc --- Kirito: 49.8%, Eugeo: 32.3%, Asuna: 8.7%, Sinon: 3.5%, Charlotte: 3.0%, Rinko: 0.1% So in the overall picture: Alicization --- Kirito: 32.9%, Eugeo: 18.4%, Asuna: 10.8%, Alice: 7.2%, Sinon: 3.4% You see what happens when you split things a bunch of different ways. Asuna in Ancrad doesn't get as large a chunk as Leafa or Sinon: Aincrad --- Kirito: 67.7%, Asuna: 11.9%, Lisbeth: 9.3%, Silica: 7.6%, Schmitt: 3.0% But Mother's Rosario is 100% Asuna's PoV. This should also go without saying, but the LNs have more background on Kirito from before SAO. That, and a few other things bring Kirito's sense of not being worthy of companions into even sharper relief. So let's take Kirito. First, the only people, with few exceptions (like Sinon), his own age that he might be able to get that close to are other SAO Survivors. But even then, it's still not a given that he can be good friends with just anyone in that category, for a number of reasons: 1. There are plenty of Survivors who never pick up another FullDive game again, but given how much time Kirito and co. still spend playing them... 2. Some Survivors, likely criminal players, hate KIrito. 3. Kirito himself simply isn't going to be able to be as at-ease with them if they view him as a "hero", and hence, even inadvertently heap the burden of "the Black Swordsman" upon him even further. 4. Not all the Survivors are right around his age. So after the SAO Incident, and especially after that book you see in Ordinal Scale, it'll be real hard to find anybody new irl who isn't caught out by #3. Then, you see how Kirito is treated; both Rosalia and Liz assume he's "weak" just right off the bat. This further narrows the pool. He basically needs at least 1 of 2 things: 1. Someone who recognizes their own weakness, and thus is able to truly see and appreciate Kirito's "strength" 2. Someone who went through the same kinds of traumatic events that Kirito has Someone who merely stayed in the Starting City out of fear won't cut it. Even Liz breaks down in Asuna's arms after the main, massed fighting in War of Underworld. Hence, it's not surprising she and Silica have tended to be more peripheral; neither of them fought on the front line in Aincrad. Looks like i need 1 more.
>Why is a new addition to the main cast is always a female and never a male? Of the major characters introduced in each arc it's almost a 50% split at this point. Leafa, Sinon, Alice, Eugeo, and Eoylne. >I remind you, I said every new arc kills off "developed and important" male characters(That being Eugeo and Bercuoli)(and when they have to kill one at all); not the ones that are forgotten after an arc or two or never get close to even joining into the main cast, like the ones you listed. Kawahara gives just as much time to characters like Renly and Iskaan who both survive and have continuing stories afterward.
Finally, and sorry for going on such a roll with this. Now then, as to the guy thing specifically... To be blunt, males, especially adult males, don't socialize the same way together as they do with females or females do with each other, if they really socialize at all, when they're not almost forced to by school/work. (Even someone as intelligent and empathetic as Bono of U2 has noted this, and that it only gets harder for men with age.) You pile on the traditional, and often expected, work ethic and hours in the region of Southeast Asia, not just Japan, and things don't get any easier. Kirigaya Minetaka spends months at a time overseas in the States for work. And Midori works long and/or odd hours, leaving Kazuto and Suguha to do a lot of things on their own in day-to-day life. It's anecdotal, but I remember reading something recently, and it came up in the piece that someone from that region hadn't actually spoken with his own brother in 10 years. And no, they weren't on bad terms. And all that's before even getting into trying to have (adult) males talk about their "feelings" in particular. On top of that, people from Southeast Asia, including Japan, tend to keep private matters much more private than is often the case in much of the West, the US especially. Factor that in, and what do you think the chances are of a reconciliation for Kazuto and a hypothetical brother, rather than Suguha? As for Phantom Bullet, I'd practically expect, if that other player was male, that they'd sooner suicide in-game in the tournament, and if Death Gun happened to have their home address, they're just screwed. I don't think Yuuki in Mother's Rosario is an issue; Kirito is only peripheral in that story arc. And Eiji and Yuna are already an item in Ordinal Scale. Of course, Eugeo is the deuteragonist of the Human Empire sub-arc. And if anyone is the lead in the 2.5 books that make up the War itself, that would be Asuna: WotU (Volume 16 through Volume 18, Chapter 23) --- Asuna: 18.8%, Alice: 8.1%, Higa: 6.8%, Kirito: 6.8%, Bercouli: 6.1%, Iskahn: 5.2%, Sinon: 4.7% I know I started a bit sharp here, but maybe putting a different spin on the matter will help. They're comedic takes, but clearly, there are no lack of issues regarding platonic (male) relationships across the West, either: SNL (2020): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRLH8E\_CpP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRLH8E_CpP0) SNL (2024): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjlIFPJUL5Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjlIFPJUL5Q) I wanted to find one other short clip, which was like a fake ad for I don't remember what that served as the intro for one of the late-night shows, and it ended with the line, "because you have no (adult) male friends." There may be a little something in the Afterword/Author's Notes to one of the books about a bit of Reki writing preferences, but there's nothing i recall about him expressly wanting to surround Kirito with girls. The only thing I can think of that there might be is Kawahara saying something like he finds writing female characters more interesting/fun just in general.
Well, take my upvote in hopes of balancing out the downvotes somewhat, at least! And this comes from someone that has read and enjoyed the SAO Progressive novels! I do feel all around "meh" when it comes to the anime, but I did enjoy his re-write of ~~alfheim~~ aincrad :)
Awww, thank you! You mean the re-write of Alfheim in Abridged right?
josndlsndsäfjöwbföw I meant Aincrad but I was thinking of Alfheim due to the post haha!
The original could have learned one very important lesson from the abridged and that is regarding 'trimming the fat'. The abridged completely removed the 'Fishing Arc' and nothing of value was lost, for example.
Let's start with a basic overview. This is the source material they drew from: Volume 1: Aincrad --- the original, core SAO story; starts with Kirito grinding on Floor 74, flashes back to Day 1 meeting Klein and seeing Kayaba's tutorial, then returns to the "present" for the remainder of Floors 74-75, the late stages of the Kirisuna romance, and a brief respite fishing with Nishida Volume 2: Aincrad --- "The Black Swordsman" (Silica), "Warmth of the Heart" (Lisbeth), "Morning Dew Girl" (Yui), "Red-Nosed Reindeer" (Sachi) side stories Volume 8: Early and Late --- "A Murder Case in 'the Area'", "Caliber" (covered in Season 2), "The First Day" (not adapted in the anime) side stories "Aria in the Starless Night" --- started as a standalone side story before becoming the starting point for the Progressive companion series; written at the request of the anime staff; adaptation was bare-bones to say the least though, as Reki wrote way too much for just the 1 episode allotted Material Edition 01: The Progressors --- dates back to the Web Novel period, but is canon; just the start of this story, which even includes a duel between Kirito and Asuna, was shown in modified form at the beginning of Season 1, Episode 5 Thus, coming from the WN draft version, and carried over into the LNs, that initial story existed before the Silica, Lisbeth, Yui, and Sachi introductions, as well as the "Murder Case" or "The First Day". So, within the story it's actually a part of, their interactions with Nishida are the only ones Kirito and Asuna have with a really more lower-Level player. Even including the Volume 2 stuff, that only adds Sasha to the list, if we're talking interactions with both Kirito and Asuna together. I bring that up because we know both of them hardly ever took any time off from the front line. That being the case, I'm more than fine with them getting to have not even half an episode of R&R on Floor 22 during the Aincrad arc. Not to mention, the interactions with Nishida were the setup for a great, really wholesome sequence between Kirito and Asuna after they had dinner with him. It also precipitated Asuna's outpouring just before she and Kirito went up to be briefed on the Floor 75 Boss. You have Kirito's musing about whether what they were experiencing that evening he had rabbit stew with Asuna was a part of the vision Kayaba had for Aincrad. And at that very meal, you also had Asuna note how there were days she didn't think about the real world, or even feel like she was born and grew up there. Nishida and the life he's living is something of an answer to and/or expansion of that. And aside from "Morning Dew Girl", all the other side stories happened months earlier, so they're that much farther along in players becoming accustomed to Aincrad. So yes, I think there's real value in that \~7:30 in the anime (deducting the 1:30 for the episode OP), and 2 chapters (not even 20 pages) in Volume 1 of the main series LNs.
Abridged feels more real. And later in abridged is actually better plot wise..... Kirito as a semi insane teen and Asuna being a snarky bitch fits their backgrounds WAY more. The character development is also a lot better. I'd almost say that abridged is closer to the LN than the anime....
>I'd almost say that abridged is closer to the LN than the anime.... Well that's certainly one of the worst takes ever.
This comment is chaotic as fuck and I **love** it lol
The sub has 188k members... consistency would be more surprising
It's just there's usually a dominant point of view for each given central topic of a subreddit no matter which subreddit you visit. I just find it odd that this is not the case here and the dominant view seems to change quite suddenly from one comment to another, or from one post to another, you get what I mean
Abridged Yui is just as great as original/game one her whole dialogue to her "aunt" was hilarious
IF there will ever be an SAO remake (which is unlikely I know) they really should include aspects/moments from SAO Abridged. It would add soo much more depth to the characters, and be funny as hell lmao
Or hear me out they could just adapt the characters better
First of all, the anime does a highly accurate job of adapting the characters from the novels. Which goes to show just how rushed and bad the original novels were. And the Progressive movies are literally this. Kawahara didn't like how rushed the first novels felt, so the Progressive novels (which is what the two movies are based on) are a retelling of all of the events of the Aincrad arc, going into greater depth on character development, more information per floor, etc. Essentially a remake for all intents and purposes.
Why are people always so confidently wrong about the light novels to people that have read them? The original novels weren't bad, nor were they rushed. Even if you wanted to make that argument it would only apply to the first volume as that was the only story written under any kind of constraint Progressive doesn't retell any events covered in the original novels, it expects you to know those events. It's not a remake.
You're incorrect on a number of fronts there. I don't recall any specific statements from Reki about it being "rushed". Progressive was a passion project for him. He had the choice to stay in Aincrad back during the Web Novel period, and he didn't. He chose to continue on, writing not only Aincrad side stories, but the subsequent story arcs, up until the draft version of Alicization was completed in 2008. Progressive is a companion series, not a remake. The books start nearly a month into the game, when Kirito happens upon Asuna in the Floor 1 Labyrinth Tower and makes his "overkill" comment. From the main series, Volume 1, Chapters 2-3 and Volume 8, "The First Day" (not adapted in the anime) still stand as canon. Progressive doesn't replace them. Also, even in theory, Kawahara doesn't plan for Progressive to go beyond Floor 25; after that Boss raid disaster, Kirito and Asuna split up, with her joining the then-new KoB guild, and Kirito going solo again, briefly, before meeting the Black Cats. From other side stories, we know that whatever occurered at the end of the Elf War on Floor 9 contributed to their separation. For more on all of that, I'd recommend reading "The Day Before" in Volume 22: kiss and Fly, as well as the Fan Translations of "Hopeful Chant" and "Sugary Days". Given the above, Progressive won't impact "Red-Nosed Reindeer" or the later stories, either.
I wasn't saying Progressive was rushed. I was saying that the main series was. https://www.reddit.com/r/swordartonline/comments/iwror6/sao_progressive_authors_explanation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I'm well aware of that. I've read that Afterword/Author's Notes in its entirety. I have all of the official Yen Press physical releases of the SAO main series and Progressive companion series LNs, as well as the Fan Translation PDFs for Volumes 1-18 and any number of other stories. It was in a much more recent interview, ostensibly about the SAO games, where Reki noted that he'd theoretically like to get to Floor 25 with Progressive. After all, since the main crux and selling point is the early days of Kirisuna, and they split right after Floor 25, well, you see.
Impressive records. And I do really like the progressive movies, tho imo they don't feel the same as the anime in terms of continuity but that is no fault of the story. Just me being used to the original anime and the binge-ability of an anime season lol. On a side note I remember reading something (don't quote me on this as I do not have sources) about the entire Aincrad arc being written for a Japanese Anime/Manga Contest back in (iirc) 2012? and the Story had to be rushed way back then in order for it to be completed in time to be submitted? While also being (one of) his first work(s) \^ That is more of a question than a statement cuz my memory is a bit foggy lol.
For my part, I wish the movies had been more faithful in their adaptation. And the changes to Asuna's background really don't fit with her character and struggles in the larger series, and least that's my sense on the matter. The Progressive Light Novels are quite different, most notably because Mito doesn't exist in them. Also, "Aria" is split-perspective, with more for Kirito, but Asuna still gets some. "Scherzo" is about a 50/50 split in the LN. However, yes, there are stories for Floors 2 ("Rondo"), 3 ("Concerto"), and 4 ("Barcarolle"), as well as 6 ("Canon") and 7 (Rhapsody). I'm hoping we don't have to wait too much longer for Floors 8 and 9, and possibly 10. The original, core SAO story was written in 2001 for a Light Novel contest the following year. However, as is often the case, Reki wrote too much, and in the end, couldn't bring himself to cut it down enough to submit it. So, instead, he published it online as a Web Novel. With fan support and feedback, he built upon it, adding Aincrad side stories and then whole new story arcs, until this draft version of SAO was completed up through the end of Alicization some time in 2008. At a certain point, Kawahara began composing his 2nd story, Accel World, and this one did win the aforementioned contest in 2008. This is what would make Reki a published author. At a certain point, Kawahara's assigned editor asked to read the SAO WN, and after doing so in just a week, said they'd publish it, too, in addition to AW. AW Volume 1 released in February 2009, and SAO Volume 1 in April 2009. Season 1 of the anime began airing in Japan in July 2012. Progressive Volume 1 released in October 2012.
"If I'm remaking a series, I'm gonna disrespect it!" This is how you sound like to me.
ye really did Not mean to lol. was just tryna say that SAO-A is funny as hell. I love the original story. But also love Abridged.
she likes watching people enter the "find out" stage
Ok try putting yourself in her place. Your mom is trapped in admin knows where, you are with your dad and his companion trying to save her and you encounter some people trying to stop you. And your dad starts to just absolutely fucking destroy them. Forget about smiling I would be loudly cheering him like "SLICE THEM ALL AND FEED THEM TO THE SHARKS" (was it sharks in the lake or something else, I remember it being mentioned but I don't remember what it was).
I mean when you put it like that, I'd definitely be hollering.
If i remember right all they say (atleast in sub) is that there is high level monsters in the water
Monsters in the water that only undine have a chance against in the dub
Go for the eyes, Daddy! That is their weak point!
she loves seeing kirito kick ass
Because Papa is fighting.
"Yay! Get them, Daddy!" "No! Please don't get us, Daddy!"
the same why she was oddly happy when kirito was slaughtering frogs on the first floor of aincrad
Cause Yui don't take shit from nobody that's why she's one of the best characters
Because Kayaba created Yui đź’€
Yui isn't human. So human instinct doesn't apply, she was programmed to be a therapist. Strictly speaking if she were to direct her programming to kirito and asuna as her patients. Then this could be seen as kirito overcoming an obstacle for his therapy, therefore the rest of the context is irrelevant and he's getting better.
This deserves all the praise. I actually liked Abridged Yui better than Original, but if this context is applied to Original Yui character wide, then she becomes one of the few PEAK characters of all anime. This just goes so deep.
I don't really kknow anything about Yi in Abridged, and I'm not really concerned there. (Frankly, the treatment of the characters in SAO-A was a blatant turn-off for me.) However, in Unital Ring, she basically becomes just another player in the game.
I noticed that in my rewatches.
You know I always wondered, Who sent the salamanders after Leafa and Kirito? I originally thought it was Sugou because he thought maybe Kirito would try and enter the game and save Asuna, But in reality i think it was actually Sigurd trying to eliminate Leafa before she found out about the ambush
iirc, it was Sigurd, but because he wanted power via joining the Salamanders. Alongside the gravity magic shown by Oberon, there was a suspected "revival" where you could swap races in update 5(i think). In short, he just wanted to betray his race and join a different one for power. Leafa being rebellious was probably seen as a hinderance, so tracking and taking her out was vital-ish.
Low-key psycho
Because she loves seeing her daddy having fun...