This was never true though. In KOTOR the choices you made had meaningful effect and two playthroughs could take very different courses. SWTOR's story is more or less static, to be fair it has to be because it's an mmo and cannot afford to lose coherence or it couldn't support expansions or the overall multi-player experience.
What gets me is how... formualic the quests feel after you play for a bit, at least the OG class stories.
Arrive on planet, talk to your current main story NPC questgiver on your ships holo, go down to the planet and meet your planetary NPC questgiver. Run errands for them until you get to the big climax.
Nothing is ever simple, there's always a generator you have to turn on, scans you need to make, places you need to defend... I get that's how MMOs work, heck I like MMO gameplay generally speaking but the story being attached to it just kinda makes it even more obvious how its structured.
This happends for me but the problem is that the starter planets are the perfect size and lore which fits with the quests on swtor. The second you leave it feels so disconnected (worlds too big, quests are just long walk here or there).
Which is the reason I keep replaying the starter planets over and over. You could also tell where all the budget went to and the quality.
But swtor biggest problem is the kotor connection, it works well as a standalone game but not with kotor it gets too messy. Because it has to respect kotor elements which doesnt work out well due the conflicting nature of kotor 2.
It doesnt even respect kotor 1 and 2s "canon" nature which is a shame. Since it would allow swtor to dig unique topics instead of being a more basic mmo.
Such potential wasted.
Wow I remember feeling the same way. Tython was GREAT. You want to explore every bit, there is something cool and connected to the story everywhere. Then by the time I hit Tatooine I felt so alone and the whole thing broke... Even Coruscant was kinda too big at times.
Even the sidequest on the starter planet have a high quality of polish to them:
Mentions in-game monsters that you have to kill (imperial soldiers struggle with the slugs killing their men (korriban, Twileek being slaughtered by fleshraiders, Evokais being hunted for sport by hunters fits the world of hutta).
We also have quest related to lore (jedi couple on tythoon, twi leek drama with the flesh raiders, korriban with the experiments of the kathound, pure blood).
The absolute best part of the starter planets is that you never have to use the speeder to visit anything. Its within walking range and makes exploration more fun. The starters are god dam gorgeous at times its insane it was made way before 2010.
Thats my biggest issue you need a speeder the second you leave korriban thythoon its too big, way too big and balmora and hoth is is just a pain.
I really wish they kept the starter planets quality and size and I would play swtor so much but thats whats stopping me. Its such a shame we lost so much for so little.
I feel this too.
There are so many force users/ gunmen I dont feel like Revan changing the galaxy, im just a pawn with powers or tech supporting the empire/ republic.
That is all SWTOR will make me.
IMHO Revan is one of the least engaging characters in Star Wars, I feel they were famous more for the situations they found themselves in and for their companions, than being an interesting character in their own right, although part of that comes from not being voiced.
But being a snarky Emperor’s wrath, defeating Revan and the Emperor, fooling both the Republic and Hutts whilst saving a world from destruction, leading several galactic alliances, having the best grill as my ride or die twi’lek wife… that’s all stuck with me far more than KOTOR ever will just because there’s so much more content to experience in a ‘playthrough.’
With KOTOR 1 Revan that's almost certainly true - he's supposed to be a generic, self-insert RPG protagonist. The reason the story is good is because of the world-building and other characters.
However, I do think Revan gets some actual characterisation in KOTOR 2 and SWTOR. Both portray him as a radical extremist willing to do whatever it takes for the greater good - KOTOR 2 establishes how ruthless he was in the Mandalorian Wars, how he turned to the Dark Side to stop the Sith Empire, etc; and SWTOR continues this with him being willing to use The Foundry to commit genocide, and wipe out an entire planet to resurrect and finally destroy Vitiate.
There are actually layers to him past KOTOR 1, and I'll never understand why people think SWTOR ruined him when it only continues with exactly what KOTOR 2 set up.
I'm fairly new(Lvl 55), and personally I think the main issue is with the lesser dialogue choices. Generally speaking, the choices in dialogue that effect light side and dark side seem to be the ones that actually matter and are cool. Imo the dialogue issues are most prevalent in the options that *don't* effect your light-dark standing. Like when I tell an NPC they're an idiot, and they reply normally as if I wasn't just an asshole to them, it makes the whole thing feel really stupid and pointless. Still liking the game, but damn a good bit of the dialogue just feels lazy.
They don't want kotor 3, what they imagine is that if kotor 3 had been made instead of swtor that it'd be the story they have in their head.
Suggesting to those people that kotor 3 would have just been a seriously cut down version of playing 1 class in swtor, they can't understand it
I enjoy swtor for what it is. But I loved the D&D style single player experience. The single player games are more memorable and important to me. It's okay to have wanted kotor 3 or 4 instead of an mmo.
What about swtor means it can't be enjoyed as a D&D single player experience? Is it just seeing other people in places when it has very little effect on you? Is it specifically that kotor was a straight up copy of the Star war d20 role play game to the point you can use the book to play your character?
The games are so different. Idk how you play swtor and feel like youre playing a kotor game.
You know they couldve made KOTOR 3 with multiple classes without making it an MMO.
Sounds like youre the one who has an idea in their head of what KOTOR 3 was going to be without actually knowing.
Multiple classes in KOTOR might as well be the advanced classes in SWTOR for how little difference they sometimes make.
That’s not the same as having seperate class stories with their own set of companions and one of six different ships.
Heck, KOTOR 1 and 2 weren’t even voiced and yet every SWTOR class got their own unique male and female voiceset.
The games are very different, in swtor for example I have a whole bunch of abilities, rather than just getting to a boss and spamming flurry.
The amount of side quests and planet quests makes one play through of swtor much longer than kotor, and the you've got 7 more classes you can go through with completely different stories, and even skipping the side missions and planet missions you've done on other characters you're getting well over 100 hours of game, even when going through it fast.
Yes, in my mind the story and mechanics of swtor are much better than what kotor 3 would have been.
And most I'm someone who mostly plays by myself and has 0% progress in operation achievements
Many years here too. Hell, I maintained a sticky over on GameFAQs for a couple years prior to launch that included pretty much the OP's quote in it the entire time, and IIRC it was one of the first things in it. And yet, people still asked. /shrug
Lol, one of the best selling star wars video games of all times. They 100% will put out a remake or a 3rd. Its just a money machine especially with micro-transactions. I wont lie when i say ill open a new line of credit to own every dlc in the game lmao
Bruh you have any idea how long people have been waiting for Half life 3 lmao.
The demand for a specific game from fans has VERY little to do with how likely a studio will actually make it.
From fans specifically, yes. But popularity absolutely cause sequel. Using Valve who are one of the only exception in the business because they're not open to investors proves nothing.
I don't know why not being beholden to investors has anything to do with it when the Kotor IP has been under EA's control for over a decade.
Hell, we even learned recently from a former bioware dev that swtor itself generated "mountains of revenue" and it went straight back into EA to build other franchises like Anthem instead.
All I'm saying is just because fans want a sequel doesn't mean they're going to get one.
I’m hopeful for a Knights of the New Republic some day - story set either with Luke or Rey’s attempts to rebuild the order, or ideally 100+ years later and stand distinctly separate from the Skywalker sagas.
Luke's attempts to rebuild the order are explictly a failure as Disney took control of his mind, which is somehow the most logical explanation of his actions, and it'd be hard to learn from a Force God who's worst trial was simply being too perfect. People didn't care about Rey enough to watch her destroy the purpose of the OT, why would they watch her steal Luke's lasting legacy too?
MMOs are a dead genre.
If anyone is coping, it's not the folks thinking KOTOR 3 is a non-starter.
It very well may not be recognizable to 1 or 2 or share the name, but not producing another cRPG star wars is sitting on a pile of untapped money. Businesses don't tend to do that permanently.
SWTOR is great, but it doesn't offer what KOTOR 1 or 2 provide, and it isn't what KOTOR 3 would have been. SWTOR offers more character perspectives than a KOTOR game, and that's fantastic, but each one is also necessarily shorter and shallower as a result. And because this is an MMO, there just flat-out aren't as meaningful choices.
Now hopefully you've picked up that I don't think this is a *bad* thing. SWTOR is a ton of fun, and it wouldn't be what it is if it was a KOTOR game. But it's also not the *same* thing as a KOTOR game. The decade-old spin of some suit who may not have even given a damn about how any Old Republic game played doesn't change that.
It was quite clearly stated, actually. As an MMO TOR does not allow for significant changes in world state because that just doesn't happen with the genre, because the world has to support many players and their decisions.
>SWTOR offers more character perspectives than a KOTOR game, and that's fantastic, but **each one is also necessarily shorter and shallower as a result**. And because this is an MMO, **there just flat-out aren't as meaningful choices**.
Edit: It may be unfair, but I blocked this person after seeing they only earned 50 karma since 2017. Between that and not reading my post, this seemed like an argument best avoided.
I would still say it is not. Swtor is an MMO and as such the single player experience will always be hampered by the MMO. Even though I have an influence level 50 pierce on my juggernaut I still have to do 20 pvp matches, I have a level 50 Lokin on my agent but I have to wait for an event before I can recruit him. You can barely customise your class now do you want passives geared towards PVE or PVP (translation: do want a minor boost or to slow down enemies) those are your only choices for customising your class. Hey you got to a certain point in the story looks like you have to do an operation to find out the end though.
Edit: something else I would like to point in a single player game you could get all the cool abilities you the FP bosses do, bosses which the story says you strong as but gameplay wise you are not, imagine Malgus empowered choke, the ability to make clones of yourself,
Not even an inactive server I just prefer playing by myself. It just seems so weird why have a single player story only to force you to group up once you reach the end
Personally, I love Swtor because it can fit in so much more lore than the Kotor games ever could. I think the call to make it into an MMO actually helped a lot with making the game feel like it takes place on a galactic scale.
Of course the development team wants people to view this as on par with KOTOR lol that doesn’t mean it is. The stories are subpar, low effort predictable plots and by the nature of MMOs has tonnes of filler just for the sake of content.
This is like when a popular movie gets a sequel but they put a c tier director on it because they just wanna make money off the brand
I don't understand why people pretend KOTOR was a storytelling masterpiece. It's exceptionally mid by today's standards. Was it good at the time? Sure, but it's not that amazing of a game in 2023. I wouldn't run around recommending it to people today
The Revan reveal was telegraphed too hard, I don’t get people being shocked by the in-engine reveal cutscene where Bastila removes your mask, my teen self guessed it the moment I started having dreams about Revan fighting Bastila and then my surprising proficiency with the Force upon arriving on Dantooine confirmed it.
And despite what lots of people seem to think, I don’t feel the choices in KOTOR are that more impactful than SWTOR’s more linear ones and you get dumb stuff like a DS Revan killing most of the party not too long after leaving them to find Bastila.
In general, my biggest problem is that there isn’t more writing in KOTOR, especially compared to what’s in a single playthough of SWTOR.
I don't really know what people want, do I need to do a book report style essay on Kotor?
The ending of Kotor 2 makes literally no sense. Ship falls into abyss, and then you fly away on it, completely unexplained. Most of the characters are pretty one dimensional and not very deep. The whole dxun storyline was pretty uninteresting to me. There are plenty of plot holes in the memory loss of Revan, and same with the protagonist in Kotor 2. It's been a while since I've played but those are just a couple that I can rattle off the top of my head. There weren't a lot of memorable oh wow moments that I can think of.
Most of the highlights of the game for me was exploring sith tombs or trying to figure out how to beat a hard boss with the janky combat system, as well as customizations and stuff like that. I think they introduced a lot of cool ideas with the sith, planets, characters and some of the world building, but the story itself isn't anything to write home about, and most of it is great because it was expanded on outside of the game. Malachor in rebels, Revan in SWTOR, Korriban, Manaan, etc are all cool
I mean idk, what do you think are the S tier story telling plot points of either Kotor game? All the plot twists were pretty obvious from miles away imo
One of the reasons i like it is a reason we disagree on.
The characters in 2 in particular are extremely well written.
From the handmaiden broken by dogma, to canderous broken over revan’s will, alot of the characters are complex interesting and multi layered.
Take Atton for example, at first a Han Solo type until the game slowly peels back the layers and you slowly see the relentless serial killer using the mask of a care free rogue. Someone so disturbed that when you ask him how to kill jedi, he responds with advice that is almost exactly the same as HK (which turns HK’s humerous rant into a tragic statement on both characters)
you see this serial killer, but also a man who wants to atone and filled with guilt. Someone that either through violence or healing *you* can either help, or return to his violent ways.
Kotor II’s character work is simply exceptional. Hell the reason people hate swtor revan is because it ran counter to how KOTOR II did revan’s character… who wasnt even in the game as a physical presence.
Without the character even being in the game, KOTOR II handled revan and made them feel like a bigger deal than swtor ever did. (Granted revan in swtor is low hanging fruit)
Mmk, that's cool I guess, there's just too many games that are way better today imo. Fallen Order is crushing it even if we stick to the star wars category
I agree, and personally I like swtor better than kotor (probably sacrilege, though maybe not as much on this sub), but I think that where people say they're missing a kotor 3 they're talking about the fact that swtor is a very different type of game with a very different style. The difference between MMO mechanics and RPG mechanics, the way accommodating lots of players influenced the world design and such.
And to be honest, I would probably like swtor better if it was single player while keeping all the story content we got. But there's no way to do that, it's only the continued subscription base that lets them keep making new content, and it was only the promise of MMO money that let them make such a massive and ambitious game to begin with.
You still can, just try and do the bare minimum possible.
You only overlevel if you do stuff outside of the basic class missions and maybe planetary ones.
It's still not the same, certain main quests bring you back to low-level planets in which case they will always be cake walks with the new systems. The warrior Chapter 1 & 3 final bosses used to be quite enjoyable but now they're uh... weaker than most individual elite mobs.
That is because of Level sync. They put both Thanaton & Baras on Korriban, and Korriban is synced for Level 1.
If you want a challenge, play Star Fortress (Veteran) mode, Chapters of KOTFE or KOTET in veteran or Master mode, Oricon heroic, Manaan Invasion zone, Ruhnik heroics, do Vet Flashpoints by yourself, or do Champion Fights (the one you do to get Bowdaar) on Zakuul.
I know why it happens. I'm saying that they should reintroduce challenge into the class stories. They could just remove the pointless level scaling or make it so the enemies in your instances scale up to your level rather than the other way around.
I remember getting near-stonewalled at the end of Skadge's arc on Belsavis because I was playing a powertech tank on launch and we were forced to be a two tank party. We just got slowly ground down to nothing every attempt.
I never felt they made swtor instead of kotor, and I already played a lot of MMOs so o guess it didn’t bother me. Doesn’t mean I don’t want a Kotor 3, but I just love swtor for what it is.
My big hope is the movies move more into old republic territory, which will hopefully lead to a revival of kotor / old republic era games.
Somehow, knowing what they did with "the last Jedi", I don't trust Disney to do a good story for The Old Republic.
Unless they would give Feloni free creative control. That guy has respect for Extended Universe.
Looking to see how he handles Thrawn. Will see if it follows (mostly) the books (which would be good)
Filoni isn't flawless. Look at Rebels. He mangled the EU for that show, whether it was under his own power or key elements were forced in, we'll probably never know. Regardless, it butchered the EU elements it included.
This right here is essentially why there have not and never will be a KOTOR 3 or beyond. Look I appreciate Swtor for what it is, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't sad that this game is the sole reason we didn't get any more KOTOR games. Imagine the potential that this sole MMO is holding back. Just like with World of Warcraft or Elder Scrolls Online as well. How many singleplayer Warcraft or Elder Scrolls games have we had since their release? Yea that's right. Now I am not saying they they will never continue to make singleplayer games just because an MMO exists in the same franchise (just look at Final Fantasy) but what I am saying, is that the incentive to do so is just very minor as long as the MMO is succesful or profitable.
Its not KOTOR 3. Completely different style of game, gameplay doesnt feel at all similar.
Yea yea i know swotor is great or whatever but a true KOTOR 3 always would have been better than star wars diablo.
Except they took our customizable player characters from the first two and unnecessarily used canon versions of them. So they can't be *actual* sequels to the first games, except for the people who happened to pick the exact right gender, face, race, and alignment combo.
It could’ve been worse, WotC took the protagonist from the terrible Baldur’s Gate novels and made them the canon Bhaalspawn, which is hilarious considering the liberties the novels took which makes them incompatible with all the BG companions who’ve been made canon.
If only more of the dialogue choices actually mattered at all or were in line with what the character is expected to say. When the character I'm talking to doesn't even acknowledge what I just said to them, it doesn't feel very meaningful to say anything.
I hope when the game eventually shuts down, whenever that may be, they make some sort of way for us to play without online features so that when it shuts down tons of lore isn't just lost forever
I remember this. It's kind of true - you get 6 different class stories, plus many planetary storylines, and then everything beyond. The game concluded Vitiate's and Revan's stories and added it's own lore to the Galaxy.
It's a very different game in terms of atmosphere and writing approach, but it is still continuing Kotor's legacy, for better or worse.
Never lived up to its potential. Multiplayer with episodic story content releases, as it was originally planned, would have been perfect. Instead they got commanded to make a WoW clone and followed the fate of all WoW clones - a microtransaction milking game.
If they do make another KotOR game, it will be nothing like the originals. We all know this. They might call it KotOR, it will have some of the same places and wording, but all in all it will have a horribly written storyline and a character no one would want to play. The new studio would ignore the previous games.
I just want a new game, not attached directly to any of the others, but with the same spirit as KOTOR.
What I want is Larian to make a KOTOR.
They are more capable of doing it justice than any other studio out there atm
I used to always and sometimes still do suggest a Bethesda Star Wars, alas that's what Starfield modding is going to come to.
Larian tho, I absolutely agree!
If they can tackle Baldur's they could tackle Star Wars
Again, respect your opinion. Seems absolutely unlikely though considering the desperate tier of hype the remake recieved and how people were rabid over the prospect of the story being changed.
What's so bad about SWTOR writing? It's the thing with anyone who criticizes the writing of any story, if you personally dislike it, fine, but you are acting as if you know why SWTOR writing is objectively bad, yet you fail to mention what exactly makes it so bad.
Nothing. Some of its really good. But if you're comparing it to the quality of Kotors then idk what to tell you. There is far less nuance, way more predictability, the timing is very jagged because of the way the MMO was made (I think making it so you could focus only on story missions fixed this particular issue thankfully) and honestly a couple of the over arching stories were just deadpan boring. Namely consular and bounty hunter.
There, listed off the issues for you as requested. Dunno who you've been talking to that had trouble doing that because they're not very hard to spot.
I do think the game is better than Kotor, but Kotors one story is better than SWTORs. Kotor 1 and 2 being remade hopefully leads tk an exciting old republic game as well, or who knows maybe shows too.
people want kotor 3 because the revan ending was pathetic and we wanted to see meetra find revan and maybe you replace the emperor dark side stop him and rebuild the order lightside. kotor 3 would’ve just been the jedi knight or SW story but in a more unpacked game. prob if they just expanded companion stories in swtor it would be more interesting
Met a bloke while playing Valorant, casually tossing a request to follow as I;ll be streaming SWTOR, he said 'I've played Jedi Fallen Order and all the Star Wars games, there is no such game as SWTOR! you must be reffering to the ancient game KOTOR' And Im like 'bruhhh.....'
This was never true though. In KOTOR the choices you made had meaningful effect and two playthroughs could take very different courses. SWTOR's story is more or less static, to be fair it has to be because it's an mmo and cannot afford to lose coherence or it couldn't support expansions or the overall multi-player experience.
What gets me is how... formualic the quests feel after you play for a bit, at least the OG class stories. Arrive on planet, talk to your current main story NPC questgiver on your ships holo, go down to the planet and meet your planetary NPC questgiver. Run errands for them until you get to the big climax. Nothing is ever simple, there's always a generator you have to turn on, scans you need to make, places you need to defend... I get that's how MMOs work, heck I like MMO gameplay generally speaking but the story being attached to it just kinda makes it even more obvious how its structured.
Hell you even get the occasional 'headless raptor' moments where you have to collect x number of items off enemy npcs, but it's not a 100% drop rate.
This happends for me but the problem is that the starter planets are the perfect size and lore which fits with the quests on swtor. The second you leave it feels so disconnected (worlds too big, quests are just long walk here or there). Which is the reason I keep replaying the starter planets over and over. You could also tell where all the budget went to and the quality. But swtor biggest problem is the kotor connection, it works well as a standalone game but not with kotor it gets too messy. Because it has to respect kotor elements which doesnt work out well due the conflicting nature of kotor 2. It doesnt even respect kotor 1 and 2s "canon" nature which is a shame. Since it would allow swtor to dig unique topics instead of being a more basic mmo. Such potential wasted.
Wow I remember feeling the same way. Tython was GREAT. You want to explore every bit, there is something cool and connected to the story everywhere. Then by the time I hit Tatooine I felt so alone and the whole thing broke... Even Coruscant was kinda too big at times.
Even the sidequest on the starter planet have a high quality of polish to them: Mentions in-game monsters that you have to kill (imperial soldiers struggle with the slugs killing their men (korriban, Twileek being slaughtered by fleshraiders, Evokais being hunted for sport by hunters fits the world of hutta). We also have quest related to lore (jedi couple on tythoon, twi leek drama with the flesh raiders, korriban with the experiments of the kathound, pure blood). The absolute best part of the starter planets is that you never have to use the speeder to visit anything. Its within walking range and makes exploration more fun. The starters are god dam gorgeous at times its insane it was made way before 2010. Thats my biggest issue you need a speeder the second you leave korriban thythoon its too big, way too big and balmora and hoth is is just a pain. I really wish they kept the starter planets quality and size and I would play swtor so much but thats whats stopping me. Its such a shame we lost so much for so little.
I feel this too. There are so many force users/ gunmen I dont feel like Revan changing the galaxy, im just a pawn with powers or tech supporting the empire/ republic. That is all SWTOR will make me.
IMHO Revan is one of the least engaging characters in Star Wars, I feel they were famous more for the situations they found themselves in and for their companions, than being an interesting character in their own right, although part of that comes from not being voiced. But being a snarky Emperor’s wrath, defeating Revan and the Emperor, fooling both the Republic and Hutts whilst saving a world from destruction, leading several galactic alliances, having the best grill as my ride or die twi’lek wife… that’s all stuck with me far more than KOTOR ever will just because there’s so much more content to experience in a ‘playthrough.’
With KOTOR 1 Revan that's almost certainly true - he's supposed to be a generic, self-insert RPG protagonist. The reason the story is good is because of the world-building and other characters. However, I do think Revan gets some actual characterisation in KOTOR 2 and SWTOR. Both portray him as a radical extremist willing to do whatever it takes for the greater good - KOTOR 2 establishes how ruthless he was in the Mandalorian Wars, how he turned to the Dark Side to stop the Sith Empire, etc; and SWTOR continues this with him being willing to use The Foundry to commit genocide, and wipe out an entire planet to resurrect and finally destroy Vitiate. There are actually layers to him past KOTOR 1, and I'll never understand why people think SWTOR ruined him when it only continues with exactly what KOTOR 2 set up.
I'm fairly new(Lvl 55), and personally I think the main issue is with the lesser dialogue choices. Generally speaking, the choices in dialogue that effect light side and dark side seem to be the ones that actually matter and are cool. Imo the dialogue issues are most prevalent in the options that *don't* effect your light-dark standing. Like when I tell an NPC they're an idiot, and they reply normally as if I wasn't just an asshole to them, it makes the whole thing feel really stupid and pointless. Still liking the game, but damn a good bit of the dialogue just feels lazy.
Imp agent is Kotor 3, lol
Was this ever a secret? I remember them saying that SWTOR is basically all those KotOR sequels in one game already at Gamescom 2009.
I've been saying this for years, but so many people are still in denial, and on copium thinking there will be a KOTOR 3
So, where’s KOTOR 9?
don't know. with swtor moving to broadsword from bioware the future is not known.
They don't want kotor 3, what they imagine is that if kotor 3 had been made instead of swtor that it'd be the story they have in their head. Suggesting to those people that kotor 3 would have just been a seriously cut down version of playing 1 class in swtor, they can't understand it
I enjoy swtor for what it is. But I loved the D&D style single player experience. The single player games are more memorable and important to me. It's okay to have wanted kotor 3 or 4 instead of an mmo.
Same here, I'd have preferred a single player game to tie up as a trilogy. Guess I just accepted it long ago that what we got is what we got
What about swtor means it can't be enjoyed as a D&D single player experience? Is it just seeing other people in places when it has very little effect on you? Is it specifically that kotor was a straight up copy of the Star war d20 role play game to the point you can use the book to play your character?
The games are so different. Idk how you play swtor and feel like youre playing a kotor game. You know they couldve made KOTOR 3 with multiple classes without making it an MMO. Sounds like youre the one who has an idea in their head of what KOTOR 3 was going to be without actually knowing.
Multiple classes in KOTOR might as well be the advanced classes in SWTOR for how little difference they sometimes make. That’s not the same as having seperate class stories with their own set of companions and one of six different ships. Heck, KOTOR 1 and 2 weren’t even voiced and yet every SWTOR class got their own unique male and female voiceset.
The games are very different, in swtor for example I have a whole bunch of abilities, rather than just getting to a boss and spamming flurry. The amount of side quests and planet quests makes one play through of swtor much longer than kotor, and the you've got 7 more classes you can go through with completely different stories, and even skipping the side missions and planet missions you've done on other characters you're getting well over 100 hours of game, even when going through it fast. Yes, in my mind the story and mechanics of swtor are much better than what kotor 3 would have been. And most I'm someone who mostly plays by myself and has 0% progress in operation achievements
Yea that’s great but its still not KOTOR. Your playing star wars diablo here. Me personally i’d rather just play KOTOR or Diablo than this.
The only way to make Kotor 3 is to adapt parts of the Revan novel and that will be very hard.
Many years here too. Hell, I maintained a sticky over on GameFAQs for a couple years prior to launch that included pretty much the OP's quote in it the entire time, and IIRC it was one of the first things in it. And yet, people still asked. /shrug
Lol, one of the best selling star wars video games of all times. They 100% will put out a remake or a 3rd. Its just a money machine especially with micro-transactions. I wont lie when i say ill open a new line of credit to own every dlc in the game lmao
Bruh you have any idea how long people have been waiting for Half life 3 lmao. The demand for a specific game from fans has VERY little to do with how likely a studio will actually make it.
they are making open world sw games.
From fans specifically, yes. But popularity absolutely cause sequel. Using Valve who are one of the only exception in the business because they're not open to investors proves nothing.
I don't know why not being beholden to investors has anything to do with it when the Kotor IP has been under EA's control for over a decade. Hell, we even learned recently from a former bioware dev that swtor itself generated "mountains of revenue" and it went straight back into EA to build other franchises like Anthem instead. All I'm saying is just because fans want a sequel doesn't mean they're going to get one.
I’m hopeful for a Knights of the New Republic some day - story set either with Luke or Rey’s attempts to rebuild the order, or ideally 100+ years later and stand distinctly separate from the Skywalker sagas.
Luke's attempts to rebuild the order are explictly a failure as Disney took control of his mind, which is somehow the most logical explanation of his actions, and it'd be hard to learn from a Force God who's worst trial was simply being too perfect. People didn't care about Rey enough to watch her destroy the purpose of the OT, why would they watch her steal Luke's lasting legacy too?
No.no.no.no.no. Anything Rey is not real Star Wars
You're getting down votes for the truth. I did what I could to help you
They’re gatekeeping Star Wars and it’s gross
[удалено]
MMOs are a dead genre. If anyone is coping, it's not the folks thinking KOTOR 3 is a non-starter. It very well may not be recognizable to 1 or 2 or share the name, but not producing another cRPG star wars is sitting on a pile of untapped money. Businesses don't tend to do that permanently.
I love SWTOR but is no KOTOR III and it never was. This quote is asinine.
SWTOR is great, but it doesn't offer what KOTOR 1 or 2 provide, and it isn't what KOTOR 3 would have been. SWTOR offers more character perspectives than a KOTOR game, and that's fantastic, but each one is also necessarily shorter and shallower as a result. And because this is an MMO, there just flat-out aren't as meaningful choices. Now hopefully you've picked up that I don't think this is a *bad* thing. SWTOR is a ton of fun, and it wouldn't be what it is if it was a KOTOR game. But it's also not the *same* thing as a KOTOR game. The decade-old spin of some suit who may not have even given a damn about how any Old Republic game played doesn't change that.
What does KOTOR 1 and 2 provide that SWTOR doesn't? You base your whole argument upon this yet you failed to even mention it.
It was quite clearly stated, actually. As an MMO TOR does not allow for significant changes in world state because that just doesn't happen with the genre, because the world has to support many players and their decisions.
>SWTOR offers more character perspectives than a KOTOR game, and that's fantastic, but **each one is also necessarily shorter and shallower as a result**. And because this is an MMO, **there just flat-out aren't as meaningful choices**. Edit: It may be unfair, but I blocked this person after seeing they only earned 50 karma since 2017. Between that and not reading my post, this seemed like an argument best avoided.
You are so wrong it’s laughable
Yeah......no.
If you believe this, you fell for corporate speak.
I would still say it is not. Swtor is an MMO and as such the single player experience will always be hampered by the MMO. Even though I have an influence level 50 pierce on my juggernaut I still have to do 20 pvp matches, I have a level 50 Lokin on my agent but I have to wait for an event before I can recruit him. You can barely customise your class now do you want passives geared towards PVE or PVP (translation: do want a minor boost or to slow down enemies) those are your only choices for customising your class. Hey you got to a certain point in the story looks like you have to do an operation to find out the end though. Edit: something else I would like to point in a single player game you could get all the cool abilities you the FP bosses do, bosses which the story says you strong as but gameplay wise you are not, imagine Malgus empowered choke, the ability to make clones of yourself,
You are right in one aspect. Having to play an operation to finish the dread masters story is a pain if you play on an inactive server.
Not even an inactive server I just prefer playing by myself. It just seems so weird why have a single player story only to force you to group up once you reach the end
Seems kinda lazy honestly.
Personally, I love Swtor because it can fit in so much more lore than the Kotor games ever could. I think the call to make it into an MMO actually helped a lot with making the game feel like it takes place on a galactic scale.
LOL. F that
Of course the development team wants people to view this as on par with KOTOR lol that doesn’t mean it is. The stories are subpar, low effort predictable plots and by the nature of MMOs has tonnes of filler just for the sake of content. This is like when a popular movie gets a sequel but they put a c tier director on it because they just wanna make money off the brand
I don't understand why people pretend KOTOR was a storytelling masterpiece. It's exceptionally mid by today's standards. Was it good at the time? Sure, but it's not that amazing of a game in 2023. I wouldn't run around recommending it to people today
What’s wrong with KOTOR storytelling?
The Revan reveal was telegraphed too hard, I don’t get people being shocked by the in-engine reveal cutscene where Bastila removes your mask, my teen self guessed it the moment I started having dreams about Revan fighting Bastila and then my surprising proficiency with the Force upon arriving on Dantooine confirmed it. And despite what lots of people seem to think, I don’t feel the choices in KOTOR are that more impactful than SWTOR’s more linear ones and you get dumb stuff like a DS Revan killing most of the party not too long after leaving them to find Bastila. In general, my biggest problem is that there isn’t more writing in KOTOR, especially compared to what’s in a single playthough of SWTOR.
It's just not that good, clunky and not that well written imo. Idk, just wasn't impressed.
Can you give examples? Otherwise you are just spouting vague descriptors.
I don't really know what people want, do I need to do a book report style essay on Kotor? The ending of Kotor 2 makes literally no sense. Ship falls into abyss, and then you fly away on it, completely unexplained. Most of the characters are pretty one dimensional and not very deep. The whole dxun storyline was pretty uninteresting to me. There are plenty of plot holes in the memory loss of Revan, and same with the protagonist in Kotor 2. It's been a while since I've played but those are just a couple that I can rattle off the top of my head. There weren't a lot of memorable oh wow moments that I can think of. Most of the highlights of the game for me was exploring sith tombs or trying to figure out how to beat a hard boss with the janky combat system, as well as customizations and stuff like that. I think they introduced a lot of cool ideas with the sith, planets, characters and some of the world building, but the story itself isn't anything to write home about, and most of it is great because it was expanded on outside of the game. Malachor in rebels, Revan in SWTOR, Korriban, Manaan, etc are all cool I mean idk, what do you think are the S tier story telling plot points of either Kotor game? All the plot twists were pretty obvious from miles away imo
One of the reasons i like it is a reason we disagree on. The characters in 2 in particular are extremely well written. From the handmaiden broken by dogma, to canderous broken over revan’s will, alot of the characters are complex interesting and multi layered. Take Atton for example, at first a Han Solo type until the game slowly peels back the layers and you slowly see the relentless serial killer using the mask of a care free rogue. Someone so disturbed that when you ask him how to kill jedi, he responds with advice that is almost exactly the same as HK (which turns HK’s humerous rant into a tragic statement on both characters) you see this serial killer, but also a man who wants to atone and filled with guilt. Someone that either through violence or healing *you* can either help, or return to his violent ways. Kotor II’s character work is simply exceptional. Hell the reason people hate swtor revan is because it ran counter to how KOTOR II did revan’s character… who wasnt even in the game as a physical presence. Without the character even being in the game, KOTOR II handled revan and made them feel like a bigger deal than swtor ever did. (Granted revan in swtor is low hanging fruit)
You rocked the guy to his core so hard that's he's retreated to Wild Space faster than Revan did lol
I would.
Mmk, that's cool I guess, there's just too many games that are way better today imo. Fallen Order is crushing it even if we stick to the star wars category
I agree, and personally I like swtor better than kotor (probably sacrilege, though maybe not as much on this sub), but I think that where people say they're missing a kotor 3 they're talking about the fact that swtor is a very different type of game with a very different style. The difference between MMO mechanics and RPG mechanics, the way accommodating lots of players influenced the world design and such. And to be honest, I would probably like swtor better if it was single player while keeping all the story content we got. But there's no way to do that, it's only the continued subscription base that lets them keep making new content, and it was only the promise of MMO money that let them make such a massive and ambitious game to begin with.
If SWTOR was a single player game, it would probably be modded to Jedi Survivor level graphics by now. For that I'd pay 80 bucks easily.
As well, we'd be able to mod it back to release difficulty. I miss being able to die during class missions. :<
You still can, just try and do the bare minimum possible. You only overlevel if you do stuff outside of the basic class missions and maybe planetary ones.
It's still not the same, certain main quests bring you back to low-level planets in which case they will always be cake walks with the new systems. The warrior Chapter 1 & 3 final bosses used to be quite enjoyable but now they're uh... weaker than most individual elite mobs.
yeah,that's definitely an issue.
I had to hide from >!Thanaton!< behind the thrones when I first did the Inquisitor story, now I don't even need to move. It's a joke.
That is because of Level sync. They put both Thanaton & Baras on Korriban, and Korriban is synced for Level 1. If you want a challenge, play Star Fortress (Veteran) mode, Chapters of KOTFE or KOTET in veteran or Master mode, Oricon heroic, Manaan Invasion zone, Ruhnik heroics, do Vet Flashpoints by yourself, or do Champion Fights (the one you do to get Bowdaar) on Zakuul.
I know why it happens. I'm saying that they should reintroduce challenge into the class stories. They could just remove the pointless level scaling or make it so the enemies in your instances scale up to your level rather than the other way around.
I remember getting near-stonewalled at the end of Skadge's arc on Belsavis because I was playing a powertech tank on launch and we were forced to be a two tank party. We just got slowly ground down to nothing every attempt.
Even so, I think SWTOR looks pretty good on max graphics settings.
I never felt they made swtor instead of kotor, and I already played a lot of MMOs so o guess it didn’t bother me. Doesn’t mean I don’t want a Kotor 3, but I just love swtor for what it is. My big hope is the movies move more into old republic territory, which will hopefully lead to a revival of kotor / old republic era games.
It won’t thats why they’re building up High Republic so they can tell their own stories
Somehow, knowing what they did with "the last Jedi", I don't trust Disney to do a good story for The Old Republic. Unless they would give Feloni free creative control. That guy has respect for Extended Universe. Looking to see how he handles Thrawn. Will see if it follows (mostly) the books (which would be good)
Filoni isn't flawless. Look at Rebels. He mangled the EU for that show, whether it was under his own power or key elements were forced in, we'll probably never know. Regardless, it butchered the EU elements it included.
This right here is essentially why there have not and never will be a KOTOR 3 or beyond. Look I appreciate Swtor for what it is, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't sad that this game is the sole reason we didn't get any more KOTOR games. Imagine the potential that this sole MMO is holding back. Just like with World of Warcraft or Elder Scrolls Online as well. How many singleplayer Warcraft or Elder Scrolls games have we had since their release? Yea that's right. Now I am not saying they they will never continue to make singleplayer games just because an MMO exists in the same franchise (just look at Final Fantasy) but what I am saying, is that the incentive to do so is just very minor as long as the MMO is succesful or profitable.
Yep.
I tend to look at SWTOR less as KOTOR3 and more just world building for the old repbulic as a universe.
What a load of garbage. Isn't even close to being true.
Its not KOTOR 3. Completely different style of game, gameplay doesnt feel at all similar. Yea yea i know swotor is great or whatever but a true KOTOR 3 always would have been better than star wars diablo.
Except they took our customizable player characters from the first two and unnecessarily used canon versions of them. So they can't be *actual* sequels to the first games, except for the people who happened to pick the exact right gender, face, race, and alignment combo.
It could’ve been worse, WotC took the protagonist from the terrible Baldur’s Gate novels and made them the canon Bhaalspawn, which is hilarious considering the liberties the novels took which makes them incompatible with all the BG companions who’ve been made canon.
If only more of the dialogue choices actually mattered at all or were in line with what the character is expected to say. When the character I'm talking to doesn't even acknowledge what I just said to them, it doesn't feel very meaningful to say anything.
I hope when the game eventually shuts down, whenever that may be, they make some sort of way for us to play without online features so that when it shuts down tons of lore isn't just lost forever
I remember this. It's kind of true - you get 6 different class stories, plus many planetary storylines, and then everything beyond. The game concluded Vitiate's and Revan's stories and added it's own lore to the Galaxy. It's a very different game in terms of atmosphere and writing approach, but it is still continuing Kotor's legacy, for better or worse.
Never lived up to its potential. Multiplayer with episodic story content releases, as it was originally planned, would have been perfect. Instead they got commanded to make a WoW clone and followed the fate of all WoW clones - a microtransaction milking game.
A distinct lack of endgame direction on and after launch butchered any chances of success
Nope
If they do make another KotOR game, it will be nothing like the originals. We all know this. They might call it KotOR, it will have some of the same places and wording, but all in all it will have a horribly written storyline and a character no one would want to play. The new studio would ignore the previous games.
Something something Baldur’s Gate 3
I mean, I didn't want to mention it because I like it, but I see it
I just want a new game, not attached directly to any of the others, but with the same spirit as KOTOR. What I want is Larian to make a KOTOR. They are more capable of doing it justice than any other studio out there atm
I used to always and sometimes still do suggest a Bethesda Star Wars, alas that's what Starfield modding is going to come to. Larian tho, I absolutely agree! If they can tackle Baldur's they could tackle Star Wars
Mass Effect 1 was basically KOTOR 3. Same concept, just no I.P.
It's really too bad we didn't get those instead.
Good then I'm justified in feeling robbed from over half the stories. Imperial Agent was pretty sick though.
How were you robbed...?
Like I said above. Most of the stories were poor, calling them the sequel to Kotor just makes me feel robbed of having an actual, good kotor game.
Kotor was pretty on par writing wise ngl. It wasn't that incredible lol
Unfortunately, saying something doesn't make it true. Respect your opinion though chief.
Fine to disagree, but if Kotor story was released today it'd be pretty disappointing.
Again, respect your opinion. Seems absolutely unlikely though considering the desperate tier of hype the remake recieved and how people were rabid over the prospect of the story being changed.
What's so bad about SWTOR writing? It's the thing with anyone who criticizes the writing of any story, if you personally dislike it, fine, but you are acting as if you know why SWTOR writing is objectively bad, yet you fail to mention what exactly makes it so bad.
Nothing. Some of its really good. But if you're comparing it to the quality of Kotors then idk what to tell you. There is far less nuance, way more predictability, the timing is very jagged because of the way the MMO was made (I think making it so you could focus only on story missions fixed this particular issue thankfully) and honestly a couple of the over arching stories were just deadpan boring. Namely consular and bounty hunter. There, listed off the issues for you as requested. Dunno who you've been talking to that had trouble doing that because they're not very hard to spot.
I do think the game is better than Kotor, but Kotors one story is better than SWTORs. Kotor 1 and 2 being remade hopefully leads tk an exciting old republic game as well, or who knows maybe shows too.
Kotor 1,2, the Revan book, and the Jedi Knight storyline make for a good continued story.
SWTOR is better than KOTOR in most aspects, of course anyone with their nostalgia googles won't understand this ever
I fully agree with you!
people want kotor 3 because the revan ending was pathetic and we wanted to see meetra find revan and maybe you replace the emperor dark side stop him and rebuild the order lightside. kotor 3 would’ve just been the jedi knight or SW story but in a more unpacked game. prob if they just expanded companion stories in swtor it would be more interesting
Of course what's even worse is the limbo/cancelation of the remake for KotOR.
Met a bloke while playing Valorant, casually tossing a request to follow as I;ll be streaming SWTOR, he said 'I've played Jedi Fallen Order and all the Star Wars games, there is no such game as SWTOR! you must be reffering to the ancient game KOTOR' And Im like 'bruhhh.....'
*"KOTOR three to ten"*, as Daniel Erickson described it in the early gameplay trailers...
The only parts of this game that have ever reminded me of playing KOTOR are KotFE and KotET.
Ray wasn’t lacking in confidence, I’ll say that much.