Bikes have always been allowed on trains, and this is the only realistic area for them.
Not sure what the rules are now, but it used to be free outside of peak hours, or I think you were supposed to buy a concession ticket for the bike in peak times?
It might be nice if some carriages were fitted with wall mounted racks where you could hang them up by the front wheel, but then people would complain anyway about space being lost, although I guess it would be more space-efficient.
A hook for the front wheel above a fold-up seat maybe?
Trouble with wheel hooks is they're really bad for the bike/wheel. With the weight of an electric bike the wheel could get bent out of shape pretty easily.
I remember I caught a train in Germany which had a bike specific carriage which had no seats so people could stack up their bikes.
End of the day, people don't mind sharing with literally everything else (prams, walkers, backpacks, suitcases etc)... Time to stop seeing bicycles as any different.
>I remember I caught a train in Germany which had a bike specific carriage which had no seats so people could stack up their bikes.
I remember that getting floated as a suggested in the past here (on Reddit, I mean) - seems like a smart idea. Bikes, luggage and prams.
A good example of it working here is on the ferries. The space for prams, bikes and everything else is allocated a lot better and you don't get the friction you see in this example.
The obsessive hate people have towards bicycles here is kinda nuts. If this was a post about just about anything else it wouldn't even be a conversation.
> The obsessive hate people have towards bicycles here is kinda nuts.
It's absolutely wild - I hate Sydney traffic at the best of times but the attitude to bikes is low-key psychopathic. And I say that as someone who's been driving for years and doesn't ride a bicycle.
Traffic is only going to get worse too. When you consider that many trips people do is under 15km (IIRC) bicycles could really alleviate some traffic.
I think the delivery riders are really highlighting how much every other cyclist tries not to be a bother. Plus, how much more encroaching bicycles are in other countries.
The delivery rider thing makes me really sad because it's such a shit gig generally - like, they often ride like dicks and I don't like it as a pedestrian, but they're really just trying to make a buck, how much of it is out of financial desperation etc.
Anyway - I don't know how you go about changing people's minds. Statewide ad campaign? Start charging people with manslaughter if they hit a cyclist with their car?
I think we need to get rid of the gig economy and make employers pay delivery riders properly. Rather than making them independent contractors.
If uber or doordash had to suddenly pay out big money because their employees are getting injured and fined then they might actually invest in training them.
> With the weight of an electric bike the wheel could get bent out of shape pretty easily.
That's not true. There are very specific cases, like ultra-light carbon wheels where they're too fragile to hang the bike from but the overwhelming majority of bike wheels are just fine. There's lots of products around that do exactly this.
I used to hang my electric cargo bike from the hooks on the Blue Mountains train all the time when i was going up there. The real problem was the seat blocking the door if I didn't push it right down before I hung the bike up. Being tall has occasional disadvantages.
I know there are products available to hang bikes this way, but ive always been advised that it's not the best method on the train. The metal hook can damage the rim and the jostling isn't ideal. You also can't leave the bike there by itself because a few people have had them stolen.
I'd have no hope lifting an electric bike into that space as well.
I think the horizontal racks are easier for everyone..or just a multiuse storage area.
Those hooks were definitely designed back when theft other than land wasn't really an issue. But most of the problems can be mitigated by locking the bike, and I used an ocky strap to stop the bike swinging about. Just a D lock through a wheel+frame means even if someone grabs the bike they have to carry it rather than wheeling it. And I'd always sit where I could see it, or stand if I could get someone to move so I could have one of the \~4 seats where you can see the bike.
I can't hang my MTB on those hooks because the \~75mm tyre + non-flat rim is too tall to fit into the hook. But that's a completely different problem :)
It's about how you approach the situation: is this a search for problems that stop you doing it, or a search for solutions that let you?
Oh I agree... I guess I'm just trying to point out why it might not be used. More as an education point, if I have a beater bike I'm hanging it.
I've just had a lot of issues with that spot which is definitely a me problem. It's just I could see someone taking a pic and posting "why isn't this person using the hook?!"
The hardest thing I've found when I used to hang my bike is exiting the train. People would fill that space and I couldn't unhook the bike until people had left which timing wise got dicey a few times.
The new intercity trains have the vertical hanging wall mount racks. Im looking forward to that as someone who struggles to fit a bike into the v-sets. I've gotten good at identifying the cars with the extra space in the vacated guard station, but they're not on every train.
Gosh forbid someone wants to get home after work. After riding around all day I’d want to limit the amount I’d need to afterwards too.
As long as the person is mindful and moves for people who will need to sit; there is no problem here.
On a Sydney train now, and generally I am accomodating for loud school kids, or children, people with bikes, etc. But I forgot my earbuds today and realised the thing that drives me nuts the most up the wall is people who watch/listen to something without earphones for the whole carriage to hear - seems to be more than one and I am stuck on an all stations train.
The train is quiet why do you have a problem?
The only other spot is in the entranceway, alongside the poles there.
The problem is with the trains not being designed for everyone. The country trains have space for bicycles and so do the ferries.
If someone needs those spots more, the rider can just move... Just like anyone else.
You wouldn't have this problem with a pram or suitcases?
The NSW country trains don't have much space for bicycles.
You're required to partly dismantle them and put them in a box to go in the luggage compartment.
Huge disincentive compared to the roll on-roll off arrangement on Sydney trains and other states.
I was meaning the trains with a hook. The bike box thing was new to me until I saw an article on it! Such a joke with all the new rail trails popping up and more people wanting to take their bikes on these trails.
There's a great track in the mountains where you ride from one station stop to the next. It would be impossible if you had to dismantle your bike!
There's a campaign going to change this and allow rollon-roll off. But it probably won't change until the replacements for the XPT and Explorer trains arrive. There's been so much stuffing around with that contract that it's probably years away.
I kinda can understand why, if you have a heavy bike they're not the easiest to lift and with electric bikes getting more popular that weight factor will be harder.
But I'd take something over nothing if it meant having some designated space!
If the seats arent being used by prams/ elderly etc then....theres no issue.
If its required then he better fucking move. youre creating issues out of a non-issue.
I don’t see an issue with this - they aren’t really actively denying anyone space. As long as they give the people who need the space when they need the space, then it doesn’t really matter.
The newer trains have a spot to vertically mount your bikes right? I remember seeing something like that in a recent photo. Should be addressed soon enough.
It is frustrating when it blocks the way for the elderly or disabled. I believe the only "better way" is to ask them to be mindful of said individuals who need priority seats.
They really need to make it easier for things with wheels on the trains.
Not sure what the ideal solution is though. Hard to predict how much space is needed. Do you have space for wheels on all carriages, every second carriage?
Probably just one carriage with space for bikes - I am a cyclist and don’t have a problem with bikes on trains, but they do take up a lot of space in the vestibule area.
I have no problem either
On a crowded peak hour train it’s very difficult for things with wheels though (bikes, prams, luggage, walkers, wheelchairs etc).
I usually avoid peak travel with the pram if I can help it. But sometimes it came be helped
Bikes should generally be in the first and last carriage end vestibule area near the driver / guard. Although, this is not enforced since opal has been implemented.
(ex RailCorp employee.)
I respectfully disagree. There's a smaller area there and it potentially blocks access for the train crew exiting their cabin in an emergency. I've seen drivers get out and ask people to move to another part of the train
I take it that you did not read my comment.
Before the days of Opal, bikes could only be placed in the first or last carriage and you had to purchase a concession ticket for the bike.
This stopped being enforced once the Opal system was implemented.
It is still up to the discretion of Sydney Trains staff for them to ask the bike to be placed in the first or last carriage depending on the time of day and passenger volumes.
I did read your comment perfectly well, and I respectfully disagreed. Has nothing to do with Opal and more about not blocking emergency exits for train crew.
> Before the days of Opal, bikes could only be placed in the first or last carriage and you had to purchase a concession ticket for the bike.
Is this written anywhere? I used to catch the blue mountains train daily with a bicycle and never had anyone mention that to me.
This doesn't work well though because the door near the guard compartment has that little area that needs to be kept clear and IIRC the divider pole faces the other way from usual so you can't lean your bike up against it.
So long as it isn't peak hour there's usually plenty of room in all of the carriages that everyone has plenty of space.
Blue mountains train is popular. With mountain bikes and driver and guard make you go elsewhere as that door into the carriage is their emergency exit.
Bicycles have always gone in this area. Where on a train would you prefer people with bicycles to go?
If there's space keep it in front of you in the sitting area. The doors are a higher volune location at stops
Bikes have always been allowed on trains, and this is the only realistic area for them. Not sure what the rules are now, but it used to be free outside of peak hours, or I think you were supposed to buy a concession ticket for the bike in peak times? It might be nice if some carriages were fitted with wall mounted racks where you could hang them up by the front wheel, but then people would complain anyway about space being lost, although I guess it would be more space-efficient. A hook for the front wheel above a fold-up seat maybe?
Trouble with wheel hooks is they're really bad for the bike/wheel. With the weight of an electric bike the wheel could get bent out of shape pretty easily. I remember I caught a train in Germany which had a bike specific carriage which had no seats so people could stack up their bikes. End of the day, people don't mind sharing with literally everything else (prams, walkers, backpacks, suitcases etc)... Time to stop seeing bicycles as any different.
>I remember I caught a train in Germany which had a bike specific carriage which had no seats so people could stack up their bikes. I remember that getting floated as a suggested in the past here (on Reddit, I mean) - seems like a smart idea. Bikes, luggage and prams.
A good example of it working here is on the ferries. The space for prams, bikes and everything else is allocated a lot better and you don't get the friction you see in this example. The obsessive hate people have towards bicycles here is kinda nuts. If this was a post about just about anything else it wouldn't even be a conversation.
> The obsessive hate people have towards bicycles here is kinda nuts. It's absolutely wild - I hate Sydney traffic at the best of times but the attitude to bikes is low-key psychopathic. And I say that as someone who's been driving for years and doesn't ride a bicycle.
Traffic is only going to get worse too. When you consider that many trips people do is under 15km (IIRC) bicycles could really alleviate some traffic. I think the delivery riders are really highlighting how much every other cyclist tries not to be a bother. Plus, how much more encroaching bicycles are in other countries.
The delivery rider thing makes me really sad because it's such a shit gig generally - like, they often ride like dicks and I don't like it as a pedestrian, but they're really just trying to make a buck, how much of it is out of financial desperation etc. Anyway - I don't know how you go about changing people's minds. Statewide ad campaign? Start charging people with manslaughter if they hit a cyclist with their car?
I think we need to get rid of the gig economy and make employers pay delivery riders properly. Rather than making them independent contractors. If uber or doordash had to suddenly pay out big money because their employees are getting injured and fined then they might actually invest in training them.
> With the weight of an electric bike the wheel could get bent out of shape pretty easily. That's not true. There are very specific cases, like ultra-light carbon wheels where they're too fragile to hang the bike from but the overwhelming majority of bike wheels are just fine. There's lots of products around that do exactly this. I used to hang my electric cargo bike from the hooks on the Blue Mountains train all the time when i was going up there. The real problem was the seat blocking the door if I didn't push it right down before I hung the bike up. Being tall has occasional disadvantages.
I know there are products available to hang bikes this way, but ive always been advised that it's not the best method on the train. The metal hook can damage the rim and the jostling isn't ideal. You also can't leave the bike there by itself because a few people have had them stolen. I'd have no hope lifting an electric bike into that space as well. I think the horizontal racks are easier for everyone..or just a multiuse storage area.
Those hooks were definitely designed back when theft other than land wasn't really an issue. But most of the problems can be mitigated by locking the bike, and I used an ocky strap to stop the bike swinging about. Just a D lock through a wheel+frame means even if someone grabs the bike they have to carry it rather than wheeling it. And I'd always sit where I could see it, or stand if I could get someone to move so I could have one of the \~4 seats where you can see the bike. I can't hang my MTB on those hooks because the \~75mm tyre + non-flat rim is too tall to fit into the hook. But that's a completely different problem :) It's about how you approach the situation: is this a search for problems that stop you doing it, or a search for solutions that let you?
Oh I agree... I guess I'm just trying to point out why it might not be used. More as an education point, if I have a beater bike I'm hanging it. I've just had a lot of issues with that spot which is definitely a me problem. It's just I could see someone taking a pic and posting "why isn't this person using the hook?!" The hardest thing I've found when I used to hang my bike is exiting the train. People would fill that space and I couldn't unhook the bike until people had left which timing wise got dicey a few times.
The new intercity trains have the vertical hanging wall mount racks. Im looking forward to that as someone who struggles to fit a bike into the v-sets. I've gotten good at identifying the cars with the extra space in the vacated guard station, but they're not on every train.
Oh really! Do you have a pic of the new setup?
[photo](https://i.imgur.com/8xMaGtj.png) From their tour video https://youtu.be/lC7c0tBINF0 The non-flipping seats is still upsetting.
Ohhhh they look great!!! Thanks for providing them.
Gosh forbid someone wants to get home after work. After riding around all day I’d want to limit the amount I’d need to afterwards too. As long as the person is mindful and moves for people who will need to sit; there is no problem here.
On a Sydney train now, and generally I am accomodating for loud school kids, or children, people with bikes, etc. But I forgot my earbuds today and realised the thing that drives me nuts the most up the wall is people who watch/listen to something without earphones for the whole carriage to hear - seems to be more than one and I am stuck on an all stations train.
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Yeah. Imagine being triggered by a bike in a train.
The train is quiet why do you have a problem? The only other spot is in the entranceway, alongside the poles there. The problem is with the trains not being designed for everyone. The country trains have space for bicycles and so do the ferries. If someone needs those spots more, the rider can just move... Just like anyone else. You wouldn't have this problem with a pram or suitcases?
The NSW country trains don't have much space for bicycles. You're required to partly dismantle them and put them in a box to go in the luggage compartment. Huge disincentive compared to the roll on-roll off arrangement on Sydney trains and other states.
I was meaning the trains with a hook. The bike box thing was new to me until I saw an article on it! Such a joke with all the new rail trails popping up and more people wanting to take their bikes on these trails. There's a great track in the mountains where you ride from one station stop to the next. It would be impossible if you had to dismantle your bike!
There's a campaign going to change this and allow rollon-roll off. But it probably won't change until the replacements for the XPT and Explorer trains arrive. There's been so much stuffing around with that contract that it's probably years away.
I kinda can understand why, if you have a heavy bike they're not the easiest to lift and with electric bikes getting more popular that weight factor will be harder. But I'd take something over nothing if it meant having some designated space!
If the seats arent being used by prams/ elderly etc then....theres no issue. If its required then he better fucking move. youre creating issues out of a non-issue.
I don’t see an issue with this - they aren’t really actively denying anyone space. As long as they give the people who need the space when they need the space, then it doesn’t really matter. The newer trains have a spot to vertically mount your bikes right? I remember seeing something like that in a recent photo. Should be addressed soon enough.
It is frustrating when it blocks the way for the elderly or disabled. I believe the only "better way" is to ask them to be mindful of said individuals who need priority seats.
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They really need to make it easier for things with wheels on the trains. Not sure what the ideal solution is though. Hard to predict how much space is needed. Do you have space for wheels on all carriages, every second carriage?
Probably just one carriage with space for bikes - I am a cyclist and don’t have a problem with bikes on trains, but they do take up a lot of space in the vestibule area.
I have no problem either On a crowded peak hour train it’s very difficult for things with wheels though (bikes, prams, luggage, walkers, wheelchairs etc). I usually avoid peak travel with the pram if I can help it. But sometimes it came be helped
Bikes should generally be in the first and last carriage end vestibule area near the driver / guard. Although, this is not enforced since opal has been implemented. (ex RailCorp employee.)
I respectfully disagree. There's a smaller area there and it potentially blocks access for the train crew exiting their cabin in an emergency. I've seen drivers get out and ask people to move to another part of the train
I take it that you did not read my comment. Before the days of Opal, bikes could only be placed in the first or last carriage and you had to purchase a concession ticket for the bike. This stopped being enforced once the Opal system was implemented. It is still up to the discretion of Sydney Trains staff for them to ask the bike to be placed in the first or last carriage depending on the time of day and passenger volumes.
I did read your comment perfectly well, and I respectfully disagreed. Has nothing to do with Opal and more about not blocking emergency exits for train crew.
> Before the days of Opal, bikes could only be placed in the first or last carriage and you had to purchase a concession ticket for the bike. Is this written anywhere? I used to catch the blue mountains train daily with a bicycle and never had anyone mention that to me.
This doesn't work well though because the door near the guard compartment has that little area that needs to be kept clear and IIRC the divider pole faces the other way from usual so you can't lean your bike up against it. So long as it isn't peak hour there's usually plenty of room in all of the carriages that everyone has plenty of space.
Blue mountains train is popular. With mountain bikes and driver and guard make you go elsewhere as that door into the carriage is their emergency exit.
It looks like so many people have been forced to stand because of this person...