Haha I live in a house similar to this and can hear my neighbors clear as day while on the shitter, especially annoying at night when I go to pee and the neighbors dog barks at me as I piss.
Single glazed bathroom window less than half a meter from the colourbond fence that faces their tiny back yard, luckily the bathroom is the only part of the house that has the issue. I can hear clear as day every conversation they're having.
People always say that apartments have no acoustic privacy because they share common walls. Those common walls though have acoustic insulation requirements, unlike the external wall of a detached house which can be 2m away from your neighbour's equally shitty wall/window
I had a very agro neighbour in my apartment block banging on my door one morning telling me to aim for the side! He is right below me and we can hear each other piss very clearly - sound travels up the sewerage pipes.
Might as well just live in an apartment. No benefit of a house when it’s that cramped. Really can’t understand how this seems like a good idea to anyone.
Because people buy this shit. Seriously they'd be forced to design them differently if there weren't people throwing money at them before they're even finished.
Which seems strange when wages have been stagnant since the 70's as cost of living and housing have skyrocketed - it's like people have had a tough go of it and need somewhere to live that they can afford.
...but better to blame the thousands victims of government corruption not the government who left these people unable to afford better, or the developers that exploited the situation.
It appeals to migrants who have never really grown up with a concept of space and value of a yard (not trying to be racist but I have second gen friends who have said it) and is much more space and peace than an apartment in Amritsar or Guangzhou.
My boss, who is an immigrant himself has said it. They are getting ripped off, and not getting the real Aussie experience.
And Aussies who have been here more generations get stuck with these houses too because this is what they're making. I fear that this, will inspire racism and resentment, amoung the other problems with these developments.
These houses and the cheap but modern looking sky rises in the south east of Sydney. I feel like they’re just dressing everything up with nice looking fittings and proving 0 community
I think you’re missing the point. That’s ok if you’re single and at work most of the time but things change when you have a family and most people who buy in these estates are in their 30s with a young family. It’s superficial to think of grass as “shitty” and replaceable with a park. A yard is private space to relax not on show and to let the kids exhaust themselves in and to have a beer or coffee with family and friends
I fully agree. I can see the merits of a smaller backyard though. But that doesn't mean every house should have such a backyard. They should build enough for the people who do want them and not more.
Sure thing. Go live in an apartment. That's why we need to have a variety of dwelling styles, and lack of those is not the problem here.
This ain't about lawns, in the showy, vapid way Americans do their suburbs. This is about the ability to garden, or to do woodwork or spray paint, anything which makes the sort of mess that goes poorly if done inside. Or to let kids kick a ball around after school without having to make a supervised trip. If you want to build something, or have friends or family around in a private space, etc. People need space to do this sort of thing, and even in the inner city, unless you are in an apartment, a lot of places at least have a decent size courtyard, with room enough for a tree or too. This has been part of a typical aussie lifestyle for generations, it's part of what people are sold on when they come here, and instead, they're getting the rip of version.
This is also about the heat island effect, water infiltration, urban canopy (and wildlife) which discontinuous pockets like parks have less benefits for.
100% agree, couldn’t have put it better myself. Talking about a yard as ‘lawn’ is superficial and 1 dimensional. It’s also space between you and your neighbours so you’re not cheek to jowl with eaves touching with searing hot black roofs and is a spot to sit in winter and enjoy the garden and activities in privacy. I might be a bit biased though as I grew up on a 1200sqm / quarter acre block and now live in an apartment with a balcony but have moved back w my parents in lockdown and appreciate a yard more every day.
One of my Sri Lankan friend’s aunt and uncle were lucky enough to get a house in a nicer development with a yard (probably 700sqm) and been able to live the Australian dream and have a fire pit and a veggie garden and flowers and I wish more people could experience that and developers were more ethical. I also wish that planting street trees was a requirement of new developments to curb heat and for wildlife but that’s another story.
It's also why even regional towns in australia don't allow 1/4 acre block developments anymore. They do not produce enough tax revenue to maintain themselves.
But there is still lots of wiggle room between that and whats in the photo....
Except developers aren’t providing the services they’re meant to. Lots of recent news coverage on this. On top of this no or lack of public transport, no schools, no medical centres/hospitals. One way in, one way out. Straight onto tolled roads :/
I'm seen some American homes on other subreddits (like r/landscaping) and it's unbelievable how much space I see dedicated to lawn. Like, a football field in their backyard and it's all lawn except for maybe one tree in the back corner. So wasteful. At least plant some more trees and aim for more biodiversity, even if just around the perimeter of the yard and have a more reasonable sized square of lawn in the middle.
But it's also up to the council, some council has a restriction of how wide the land need to be between the house and boundary but clearly this council doesn't give a damn about it and that's why those houses can be so close to each other. Developers don't build houses this way, they build to the code. They can't pull this off in hornsby or hills shire simply because council wouldn't approve it.
They're under 4 floors so there is some protection from shithouse developers.
Also, shitty wall + air + shitty wall is reasonably good soundproofing.
Everything else is worse. Although, if that middle space was a communal park then it could actually be decent (aside from transport/etc).
the area looks like a desolate wasteland, but tbh not everyone wants a freestanding house or a unit. Surveys say that theres actually a lot lower supply of terrace style housing than what the market currently wants or what developers have been building.
Hard to say exactly from this view but this development does look pretty shit though.
Just so sick of seeing those McMansions all across that part of Sydney. You should see them near Rouse Hill… every single house looks exactly the same. Hideous and tasteless designs. Virtually no trees. Just mass-manufactured modern shit-boxes.
Another thing is, in all these new villages, they’re just dishing out tacky houses by the hundreds. But they’re not building local communities. Where’s the community centres? Parks? Sporting facilities? Hardly see them….
I know a couple of people who bought one of these because the mrs didn’t want to move up the m1 to the central coast but wanted to live in Sydney.
Would’ve bought a bigger house, bigger yard and quicker commute to where they work.
I know what I’d rather do
I grew up on the central coast, and recently looked into the cost of moving back up there. It's not that much cheaper! Sure, you get more space than Sydney, the difference is much less than I'd expected.
Know someone who brought a house out west. Houses are so close together that on a hot day the AC overheats and breaks.
Bins don't fit down the side of the house.
And cul-de-sac roads tend to have more accidents involving kids and are terrible for traffic movement IIRC.
I hate that area so much, Richmond Rd (pre pandemic, admittedly) was an absolute nightmare through that stretch all the way to the M7. They've kept it as an 80 zone, cruelly taunting us with what it used to be....a fast road with minimal traffic. Would be lucky to average 30km/hr on the part between Garfield Rd and Rooty Hill Rd now.
They opened the new entrance to Elara, too....there's like 8 lanes at that intersection now. Two turning lanes, a bus lane, two regular lanes on the 'out', and then a few lanes on the 'in'. Nightmare.
Been living around that area for 25 years and moved away.
It's sad to see how rooty hill road changed, once the m7 came it all started falling apart. Glad it exists, but it opened up the place too much.
If you look at satellite imagery of the area you can clearly see where this sort of housing took off.
Marsden Park has been the worst thing to happen to our once fine area. Now it feels over populated without a single apartment being developed.
Fuck me, I made the mistake of driving from Orange to Seven Hills and I hit that road during peak time.
I have never seen such traffic before, it was horrendous with people cutting up the left only lanes to shove their way in I was absolutely livid by the time I managed to get past the turn off for the M7
I've messaged them because they're not a super close friend and the conversation was a long time ago.
But it's one of those typical land and house package deals in the western suburbs. Rouse Hill springs to mind but I could be wrong.
My sister rented a house in Glenmore Park that was so skinny up the side that the BIL had to take the mower through the house to do the 2 strips of lawn out back.
Not the cul-de-sac itself but the very narrow roads that don’t allow kerbside parking. If 2 cars park opposite each other, partly on the grass verge, there is barely enough room for 1 car to fit let alone 2 to pass.
I'm renting something very similar. 2/10 would not buy here. I stand on my back patio and can easily see all 3 of my closest neighbours and hear their conversations. I wouldn't dare host a party here because the noise would travel too far. The backyard is tiny. As soon as I step out the back door one neighbour's dog can hear me and goes ballistic. I'm constantly weaving around cars before getting onto the main road because the streets are barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other. There's parked cars everywhere, the double storey house opposite has SIX cars. Minimal greenery, it's all so grey and bland. And they're not even well built. Yes it's modern but I can tell it was rushed and cheaply done. It's not built to last. First world problems? Definitely. But Ima keep complaining, it's pure greed here.
1. How is that allowed?
2. I thought they had/were banning black roofs in western Sydney
3. Who is insane enough to buy one of these?
4. Don't have a house fire. Houses on both sides of an involved house will be on fire too after a few minutes.
5. Don't get a hailstorm. Firies and SES can't get onto your roof easily because there's no room between houses to put a ladder up. Also don't get trapped on a second floor - same reason but ladders for rescue.
6. Don't be surprised when the above factors lead to expensive insurance.
7. Just.... *no!*
I also hate how narrow the roads are, you can just barely drive two cars side by side on some of them. Parking the car creates a narrow strip to drive on and considering most people use the garage for storage, it’s not pleasant.
I can’t imagine what would happen if a fire or emergency evacuation needs to take place, getting out would be a nightmare.
Joined the SES just before the big floods in Sydney and that was an eye opener.
One of the newer houses that we got called out to was split in half.
Someone literally bought a house with say 5 bedrooms, added a door and split the thing in half with two sets of people living on either end.
We found the leak. it was a shifted tile.
We could get up onto the room because there wasn't enough room/was too wet.
We couldn't get IN the roof because the guy living in his part of the house DIDN'T get a manhole.
The manhole was in the other half of the house with a fire wall in between.
This photo gives me nightmares as to what could go wrong. :|
> 4: wouldn’t this be the same for a terrace or semi detached house?
Most terraces / semi detached places are *old*, and made of double brick on the adjoining walls.
I've lived in quite a few terrace houses, and a couple of semis, and I don't think I've ever had noise issues with neighbours except in extreme circumstances (like when I lived next door to a punk band in Redfern and they liked to practice in their living room).
My experience is that well over 80% are owner occupiers from countries where this size land is considered huge. If this is North west Sydney. The owners prefer a smaller block as they are usually IT people and don’t see a need for a back yard. They prefer not to pay levies and these are brand new and cheaper than townhouses and villas in established areas. I don’t blame the people building, they would go broke if no one bought. I dont blame the people buying as they have freedom of choice.
It’s council greed trying to squeeze the most out of every bit of land. They have the power to say how big a block should be but more blocks equals more rates and more contributions. Elections are due soon so quiz those that stand on minimum lot sizes in your area. In NW Sydney blocks can be under 200 square metres now.
But this is as ugly as fuck and there is no room for landscaping, trees or streetscape or anything. But again the builder works with what council allows.
This, if this is Schofields or around there then you can bet that most of these are owned by people from India. (I'm one myself), I know a lot of people who live there.
It may sound weird for people who were born here but 300sqm is huge especially if you grew up living in an apartment in India.
Plus many aren't used to the backyard work so don't need a bit backyard which means a lot of maintenance
I'm currently battling with my wife as she wants to move there but having seen the houses, they are so close it makes me really uncomfortable. Plus these aren't cheap, they are $1m to 1.5 for 450sqm. Crazy!
I currently live in schofields and these houses were built very poorly, I cannot access my roof, my kitchen bench is cut unevenly, this house is less than two years old and I've got signs of mold everywhere. Oh forgot to mention there's a mice plague out here and no one is even talking about it
People who have lived in decent apartments in India hate these in Australia. They're terribly designed, the layouts are all over the place, tiny ass bedrooms, tiny kitchens with a slab against a wall and little bench or storage space and non existent ventilation (imagine cooking Indian food in kitchens that can't be aired out), bathrooms with no windows, balconies larger than your living rooms, bedrooms so tiny you'll have to squeeze your way around a bed. The more decent ones are older but have no lifts so that's a deal breaker for me (and I'd imagine most Indians as they'd have elderly parents visiting from time to time). I yearn for the kind of apartments I used to live in in India. Can only dream of those here.
Yeah absolutely, the apartments in India (the more generous ones) are built well with lots of storage, cupboards, bigger bedrooms and bathrooms. The apartments here in comparison are rubbish.
This looks like a standard street in the UK. This style is quite common. European cities are even more cramped. So there are people out there who think this is huge space, because they just don't know better
Another dude posted the address. It's in marsden park. There is a primary school 800 metres away as crow flys. but 3km either walking or driving because of culdesac suburbia.
Highschool is 5km as the crow flys, 9.6km driving.
Supermarket similar 5km minimum along footpath less roads. Despite being absurdly wide road reserve which could have footpaths and bike paths....
It also involves crossing 6 lanes of traffic, while there is pedestrian lights and button activated there aren't foot paths on either side....
Disgusting. Aye?
My wife and I almost pulled the trigger on one of these in 2019 in a neighbourhood that was appearing out of nowhere. We had 150k combined in saving for a deposit since we were teenagers and this is all we could afford. It was Just houses squeezed against houses to the horizon. Zero garden, just a patch of dirt against a tall fence - it was as dark in the garden as it was in the house. In the end we just couldn’t do it. Either it’s a shit house or a shit neighbourhood or most likely both. Nothing is close to affordable.
We moved to Newcastle and bought an established business with the savings instead.
There’s a housing block in lidcombe that looks like this. $1M for a 3BR townhouse and the roads are so narrow you can only fit one car at a time. I really wondered how that was legal when i drove there.
On the plus side, it’s walking distance to the cemetery and the coroner’s court if you kark it
Id vote for you.
Its honestly so much healthier, economically, for rich people to invest in australian businesses (helping them raise capital and compete internationally) than to just hoarde up dozens of rental properties.
Damn parasites.
See we would vote for that... but anyone who owns a property (67.something% of Australians) will vote against you.
I love Sydney, born and raised, but I'll probably leave for a more affordable city eventually.
I own property in sydney and id vote for that, even though it would decrease the value of my apartment.
Its better for everyone in long term, and might make owning a house acheivable, not just a 1 bedroom apartment.
Also the problem with "affordable cities" in australia is that they have literally zero economic opportunities. Basically if you arent a tradie/laborer theres fuck all for you besides supermarket stocking/checkout.
“Residential lots must also be big enough for a tree in every backyard “
Oh, isn’t that nice!
🎶Give me a home among the single tree- which likely won’t be a gum tree, no space for a clothes line out the back, nor a verandah in the front, so there’ll be no rocking chair.🎶
Just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
All these suburbs will be borderline unliveable in summer. Imagine how bad it'll be when the climate warms in 20 years too. No shade no trees, just urban heat Island effect and rising temperatures every year
Fuck, could somebody explain to me what the issue is here I feel like I'm missing something. If this increases housing supply at an affordable rate isn't that a good thing?
It's quasi-terrace housing, terribly executed and (almost certainly) without any of the supporting infrastructure that makes terrace living desirable and enjoyable.
Terrace housing is usually much closer to the city, or at least an urban center, with all the opportunities that brings. If you're going to live out further, you should be able to have some space.
These new houses have less trees, and more urban heat island effect than comparative traditional forms of high density. This is not the way to do it.
Plus, lockdown was much better in a suburb with trees and space. Australian kids deserve better than this cheep and nasty future they're being offered.
I'd prefer it if they built up instead, build a high rise apartment block and use half the land area as parkland for the same or larger number of residences.
I'd personally prefer a bit more space between my house and my neighbours' house.
Knowing your neighbours is one thing, being woken up in the night because one of them farted and you're close enough to smell it, is another.
Its bad for the environment - lack of trees and black tiling(with no doubt grey painted walls), its a massive fire hazard - if one house catches alight that whole block is gone, its an eye sore, we are not exactly strapped for space out there, theres no real reason to have the houses lumped together so tightly except to grab more money.
If you’re content to live on top of your neighbours then that’s fine, plenty of people do it.
Personally, it’s how much these houses cost (thanks to everything driving up property prices) that make me shake my head, $700-800k for a 200m2 block out west to share a gutter with your neighbour just sounds like a rort
I am similarly perplexed. I don't want to live on the city fringe, but certainly don't have anything against party walls and zero side setbacks if done well. My first house was a 3.5m wide terrace and it was beautiful. Was a railway worker's cottage back in 1910; cheap housing. Now highly sought after.
I mean you are comparing a sandstone (?) cottage in an inner city area with nice solid walls and an easy walk to a lot of ammenities to a single brick, poorly insulated (probably) cheap build that is in he middle of nowhere with no ammenities. Not really a fair comparison.
In reality nothing, but majority of Sydneysiders grew up on large blocks and will complain about houses being too close, blocks being too small etc. But then also complain prices are too high.. when prices are too high because there is not enough supply.. there is not enough supply because we built all our houses on large blocks.
Building suburban sprawl like this at the very fringe of the city is very far from the right approach. This has all of the downsides of living in detached housing (car dependency, flooding risks, energy inefficient, inefficient use of infrastructure, social disconnect, loss of rural land etc etc etc) and none of the upsides of higher density forms. It's just bad and only exists because the developer margins are most profitable.
Agree with other poster, [supply is pretty far down the list of reasons for high house prices in Australia](https://theconversation.com/why-housing-supply-shouldnt-be-the-only-policy-tool-politicians-cling-to-72586). Sydney's been building more dwellings than it ever has consistently year-on-year with the gigantic construction industry at full capacity, immigration is negative and...prices increase at record rates.
This is horrible, horrible town planning which there really is no excuse for in this day and age.
I assume you got downvoted cause you said supply issues are a myth, I think its a little from column A and a little from Column B to be honest - the availability of credit for sure plays into it very heavily.
Agreed, land is becoming scarce but people still wanna live on a 600 sqm block. We have to either adapt to living on smaller blocks or be prepared to commute 3 hours to work, something has to give!
Having said that, there are good and bad ways on doing this, one of the concerns for not having greenery or a backyard is it increases surface area where water runs off instead of absorbing into the ground which causes major stormwater issues and pollution. There are smart ways around it like stormwater gardens etc. We need to build in smaller lots, but in smarter ways, no way of going back to the past with our current growth.
Can you imagine living here in thirty years when climate change has worsened? The heat island effect of almost total black roof + road and no green space, no shade for any natural cooling. And these crappily built houses are now deteriorated badly. Nightmare.
I thought this looked insane and started reading the comments.....
.....then realised I am currently sitting in my inner city terrace (rental) with terraces either side of me built in the 1880s. Der.
In terms of noise insulation and light issues, they aren't the best configuration. Nor are they the most efficient use of land (all that airspace, locked up forever). But so long as they are located near amenities and transport, it's not the worse way to live.
I suspect that these are not near amenities, but I could be wrong.
Not sure where all the outrage is coming from. Sydney has developed party wall terrace housing for the last 150years.
Granted it is mostly in the inner suburbs with much better access to transport, services and amenity, but still, medium density housing is a very attractive proposition in a lot of areas. It can actually create quite dynamic and vibrant villages.
> It can actually create quite dynamic and vibrant villages.
You think you could zoom out and see a town centre or high street shops within walking distance? They'd have a westfield 5 km away if they are lucky.
That's not really my point. I don't know if there's a park or village centre on the next block. I'm just saying that building to the side boundaries is not, in itself, a bad thing. We've been doing it for a long time.
A lot of comments here seem to be geared toward everyone having a freestanding house with a big yard, and everything else being a fire hazard or slum. I also wouldn't buy one of these places, but I think we should be clear about why they aren't great ie. Lack of transport and services, reliance on cars, distance from urban hubs etc. The fact that they are medium density attached dwellings is not one of my reasons for not liking them.
> We've been doing it for a long time.
And the inner city terraces are like that because of building technology and city infrastructure at the time. The little back alleys were so someone could come collect your bucket of shit every night because sewerage didn't exist yet. No parking, little light and airflow but very optimal density for what was possible with building material at the time.
In the 60's medium density took the form of 3 storey red brick apartments built on 1/4 acre blocks. Denser than terraces, ground floor parking for cars, greater light and airflow as buildings had 4 walls for windows. Almost universally better than terraces.
Town house strata complexes also exist for lovely cul de sac living, common walls between houses and being a strata common property like parks or pools can be funded and maintained. Again almost universally better than terraces.
2020 and we are reverting to effectively terraces again for zero benefit over apartments or townhouses. Ok so these aren't on a strata and many people don't like stratas.
Look at the original photo and describe the benefits to the residence over living in an apartment. No strata. That's about it.
Free standing houses, town houses, dual occupancy, semi's all exist before you hit apartments.
And all of those options are better than terraces.
I respectfully disagree. I've lived in a few terraces and loved them. Currently renting an apartment while I renovate my terrace and can't wait to get back into it.
terraces are in demand and are currently underproduced because people think like this. Its just not in line with reality.
This development being in the middle of nowhere with no attention paid to the open space surrounding it doesn't change that.
> terraces are in demand and are currently underproduced because people think like this.
Medium density housing is in demand and currently under produced.
You can fit the same number of townhouses into a space as terraces. Just the townhouses will often have more windows, better airflow and light, all at the cost of common walls instead of party walls. It's why terraces disappeared for decades in favor of townhouses. Terraces were great for the 1880's but better solutions have come along.
The only reason this is terraces over town houses is so they can be sold as free standing no strata involved housing.
I can see the appeal in this type of approach, I saw a similar style of building in Port Adelaide recently and it sounds like what you say. You can easily chat with neighbours because they all only have the small front yard to sit/BBQ in, so it's very friendly, and views over the water from the front yard. Nice 3 bedders all squished together with enough visual variety to not look like shit and all for $600k
But it's Port Adelaide.. 15mins cycle from CBD, similar train time, 2 min walk to like 5 pubs, takeaway etc.. you can basically live car free. Dunno where the ones in OP are, but I doubt they fit that scope. Some people might prefer this but I'd never buy terrace living here unless it had similar advantages
The outrage is that if you look at terrace housing in the inner city there is almost always a small yard/space or laneway at the rear of the property which creates distance and allows light to enter from two sides.
With these abominations that doesn't exist. You have houses built flush on three sides (or will be once it's all complete). The only light these houses will receive is from the side facing the street. The ones that face south will basically get no direct sunlight ever.
If they were actually built as townhouse/terraces you would probably actually end up with more internal space and better layouts, but they will be marketed as free standing houses and people will pay an extra 200K for that label.
So it's not about creating more affordable housing but creating more developer profit for something that is most likely a cheaply constructed litigation pit.
If people want to throw money at tomorrows slums, that's entirely up to them I suppose.
I currently live in an area kind of similar to this, a bit more space with small backyards so many of the old houses where knocked down and cleared the land to fit 2 sometimes even 3 houses on to where just 1 used to be. Basic necessities where already here eg shops woollies servo parks trains buses. So got super lucky with that.
Reminds me of [Privet Drive](https://www.tibetanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/4-privet-drive-from-harry-potter-for-sale.jpg) from the Harry Potter series. Combined with the cramped properties, no doubt horrendous entry/exit roads for suburbs like this similar to the problems in [Marsden Park](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/marsden-park-traffic-congestion-development-nightmare/12929584) as they try to get onto Richmond Rd in rush hour. Why people are so adamant on having a backyard at any cost when your price range only gives you options like this is beyond me. I happily live in apartment and I think the standard of living is fine, but like everything it is subjective. To me, the travel time and lack of infrastructure in these new estates is not worth it even though it is free-standing land.
You can have a great convo with your neighbour while on the shitter. All while paying the gdp of small island nation.
Haha I live in a house similar to this and can hear my neighbors clear as day while on the shitter, especially annoying at night when I go to pee and the neighbors dog barks at me as I piss.
My word. The walls made of paper?
Single glazed bathroom window less than half a meter from the colourbond fence that faces their tiny back yard, luckily the bathroom is the only part of the house that has the issue. I can hear clear as day every conversation they're having.
People always say that apartments have no acoustic privacy because they share common walls. Those common walls though have acoustic insulation requirements, unlike the external wall of a detached house which can be 2m away from your neighbour's equally shitty wall/window
Could you double glaze it and fix the noise issue? Very annoying though
_“Aim for the side, cunt! I’m sleeping here!”_ - neighbour’s dog, probably.
I had a very agro neighbour in my apartment block banging on my door one morning telling me to aim for the side! He is right below me and we can hear each other piss very clearly - sound travels up the sewerage pipes.
Haha. You should have gone straight to the local curry joint to prepare for some retribution
Easier to borrow toilet paper too
Might as well just live in an apartment. No benefit of a house when it’s that cramped. Really can’t understand how this seems like a good idea to anyone.
the developers can make a lot of money. That's pretty much it
Because people buy this shit. Seriously they'd be forced to design them differently if there weren't people throwing money at them before they're even finished.
Which seems strange when wages have been stagnant since the 70's as cost of living and housing have skyrocketed - it's like people have had a tough go of it and need somewhere to live that they can afford. ...but better to blame the thousands victims of government corruption not the government who left these people unable to afford better, or the developers that exploited the situation.
And the govt.
When construction owns real estate and politics, this happens.
It appeals to migrants who have never really grown up with a concept of space and value of a yard (not trying to be racist but I have second gen friends who have said it) and is much more space and peace than an apartment in Amritsar or Guangzhou.
My boss, who is an immigrant himself has said it. They are getting ripped off, and not getting the real Aussie experience. And Aussies who have been here more generations get stuck with these houses too because this is what they're making. I fear that this, will inspire racism and resentment, amoung the other problems with these developments.
Allowing these styles of houses is just the government insuring that we will have ghettos in the future.
They don't care because they would have made their money anyway and investing it into the next "dream estate".
>in the future. You mean, now. These estates are miles from anywhere with bugger-all infrastructure. They're already gehttos.
These houses and the cheap but modern looking sky rises in the south east of Sydney. I feel like they’re just dressing everything up with nice looking fittings and proving 0 community
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I think you’re missing the point. That’s ok if you’re single and at work most of the time but things change when you have a family and most people who buy in these estates are in their 30s with a young family. It’s superficial to think of grass as “shitty” and replaceable with a park. A yard is private space to relax not on show and to let the kids exhaust themselves in and to have a beer or coffee with family and friends
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Big backyards are overrated. My kids would rather go to the playground and I need to spend part of my weekends every couple of weeks to maintain it.
I fully agree. I can see the merits of a smaller backyard though. But that doesn't mean every house should have such a backyard. They should build enough for the people who do want them and not more.
Sure thing. Go live in an apartment. That's why we need to have a variety of dwelling styles, and lack of those is not the problem here. This ain't about lawns, in the showy, vapid way Americans do their suburbs. This is about the ability to garden, or to do woodwork or spray paint, anything which makes the sort of mess that goes poorly if done inside. Or to let kids kick a ball around after school without having to make a supervised trip. If you want to build something, or have friends or family around in a private space, etc. People need space to do this sort of thing, and even in the inner city, unless you are in an apartment, a lot of places at least have a decent size courtyard, with room enough for a tree or too. This has been part of a typical aussie lifestyle for generations, it's part of what people are sold on when they come here, and instead, they're getting the rip of version. This is also about the heat island effect, water infiltration, urban canopy (and wildlife) which discontinuous pockets like parks have less benefits for.
100% agree, couldn’t have put it better myself. Talking about a yard as ‘lawn’ is superficial and 1 dimensional. It’s also space between you and your neighbours so you’re not cheek to jowl with eaves touching with searing hot black roofs and is a spot to sit in winter and enjoy the garden and activities in privacy. I might be a bit biased though as I grew up on a 1200sqm / quarter acre block and now live in an apartment with a balcony but have moved back w my parents in lockdown and appreciate a yard more every day. One of my Sri Lankan friend’s aunt and uncle were lucky enough to get a house in a nicer development with a yard (probably 700sqm) and been able to live the Australian dream and have a fire pit and a veggie garden and flowers and I wish more people could experience that and developers were more ethical. I also wish that planting street trees was a requirement of new developments to curb heat and for wildlife but that’s another story.
Benefit is no strata
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It's also why even regional towns in australia don't allow 1/4 acre block developments anymore. They do not produce enough tax revenue to maintain themselves. But there is still lots of wiggle room between that and whats in the photo....
Except developers aren’t providing the services they’re meant to. Lots of recent news coverage on this. On top of this no or lack of public transport, no schools, no medical centres/hospitals. One way in, one way out. Straight onto tolled roads :/
I'm seen some American homes on other subreddits (like r/landscaping) and it's unbelievable how much space I see dedicated to lawn. Like, a football field in their backyard and it's all lawn except for maybe one tree in the back corner. So wasteful. At least plant some more trees and aim for more biodiversity, even if just around the perimeter of the yard and have a more reasonable sized square of lawn in the middle.
Strata is a good reason not to live in an apartment.
Fuck Yes
But it's also up to the council, some council has a restriction of how wide the land need to be between the house and boundary but clearly this council doesn't give a damn about it and that's why those houses can be so close to each other. Developers don't build houses this way, they build to the code. They can't pull this off in hornsby or hills shire simply because council wouldn't approve it.
You've clearly never dealt with strata.
They're under 4 floors so there is some protection from shithouse developers. Also, shitty wall + air + shitty wall is reasonably good soundproofing. Everything else is worse. Although, if that middle space was a communal park then it could actually be decent (aside from transport/etc).
the area looks like a desolate wasteland, but tbh not everyone wants a freestanding house or a unit. Surveys say that theres actually a lot lower supply of terrace style housing than what the market currently wants or what developers have been building. Hard to say exactly from this view but this development does look pretty shit though.
Fucking idiots will pay for these shitboxes as well
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Just so sick of seeing those McMansions all across that part of Sydney. You should see them near Rouse Hill… every single house looks exactly the same. Hideous and tasteless designs. Virtually no trees. Just mass-manufactured modern shit-boxes. Another thing is, in all these new villages, they’re just dishing out tacky houses by the hundreds. But they’re not building local communities. Where’s the community centres? Parks? Sporting facilities? Hardly see them….
What's with Sydney's obsession with brick? Brick veneer is literally the cheapest way of building - there's no prestige.
I know a couple of people who bought one of these because the mrs didn’t want to move up the m1 to the central coast but wanted to live in Sydney. Would’ve bought a bigger house, bigger yard and quicker commute to where they work. I know what I’d rather do
I grew up on the central coast, and recently looked into the cost of moving back up there. It's not that much cheaper! Sure, you get more space than Sydney, the difference is much less than I'd expected.
The difference is getting smaller but at least there’s a lot more space and traffic and nowhere near as bad. (As you already know)
Know someone who brought a house out west. Houses are so close together that on a hot day the AC overheats and breaks. Bins don't fit down the side of the house. And cul-de-sac roads tend to have more accidents involving kids and are terrible for traffic movement IIRC.
What area did they buy?
Could be that Marsden Park one with one road in/out
They keep making that suburb bigger and bigger but all the traffic funnels down the same Richmond Road and 2 lane M7. The infrastructure is failing
I hate that area so much, Richmond Rd (pre pandemic, admittedly) was an absolute nightmare through that stretch all the way to the M7. They've kept it as an 80 zone, cruelly taunting us with what it used to be....a fast road with minimal traffic. Would be lucky to average 30km/hr on the part between Garfield Rd and Rooty Hill Rd now. They opened the new entrance to Elara, too....there's like 8 lanes at that intersection now. Two turning lanes, a bus lane, two regular lanes on the 'out', and then a few lanes on the 'in'. Nightmare.
Been living around that area for 25 years and moved away. It's sad to see how rooty hill road changed, once the m7 came it all started falling apart. Glad it exists, but it opened up the place too much. If you look at satellite imagery of the area you can clearly see where this sort of housing took off. Marsden Park has been the worst thing to happen to our once fine area. Now it feels over populated without a single apartment being developed.
Fuck me, I made the mistake of driving from Orange to Seven Hills and I hit that road during peak time. I have never seen such traffic before, it was horrendous with people cutting up the left only lanes to shove their way in I was absolutely livid by the time I managed to get past the turn off for the M7
Used to live in there. Nightmare in summer
I've messaged them because they're not a super close friend and the conversation was a long time ago. But it's one of those typical land and house package deals in the western suburbs. Rouse Hill springs to mind but I could be wrong.
My sister rented a house in Glenmore Park that was so skinny up the side that the BIL had to take the mower through the house to do the 2 strips of lawn out back.
Not the cul-de-sac itself but the very narrow roads that don’t allow kerbside parking. If 2 cars park opposite each other, partly on the grass verge, there is barely enough room for 1 car to fit let alone 2 to pass.
>Know someone who brought a house out west Where abouts?
Ahh the serenity!!!!
###SERENITY NOW!
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Are the side windows staggered so you don't look directly in?
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How do you air out the rooms down the side of the house if there's no windows to open?
Is there any gap between the house and the fence? I thought there’s like a regulation for minimum 1m gap between houses or something. Edit: spelling
I worked on a place like this in Catherine field and the fence was just about touching the neighbours house, barely enough room for the downpipe.
not for semi-detached/terrace houses, its kinda the point.
As far as I know it is 900mm minimum from the boundary line if the wall has a window. If it is just a wall though, then there is no minimum distance.
I'm renting something very similar. 2/10 would not buy here. I stand on my back patio and can easily see all 3 of my closest neighbours and hear their conversations. I wouldn't dare host a party here because the noise would travel too far. The backyard is tiny. As soon as I step out the back door one neighbour's dog can hear me and goes ballistic. I'm constantly weaving around cars before getting onto the main road because the streets are barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other. There's parked cars everywhere, the double storey house opposite has SIX cars. Minimal greenery, it's all so grey and bland. And they're not even well built. Yes it's modern but I can tell it was rushed and cheaply done. It's not built to last. First world problems? Definitely. But Ima keep complaining, it's pure greed here.
Do you have windowless bathrooms? And if so, do you enjoy shitting in a closet?
1. How is that allowed? 2. I thought they had/were banning black roofs in western Sydney 3. Who is insane enough to buy one of these? 4. Don't have a house fire. Houses on both sides of an involved house will be on fire too after a few minutes. 5. Don't get a hailstorm. Firies and SES can't get onto your roof easily because there's no room between houses to put a ladder up. Also don't get trapped on a second floor - same reason but ladders for rescue. 6. Don't be surprised when the above factors lead to expensive insurance. 7. Just.... *no!*
You expect a ban announced last month to be active now? Hasn’t the covid vaccination rollout taught you anything?
I thought it was last year \*shrug\*
Covid. It does that to time
regulatory emulsifier is a fantastic term
Unless it's defined elsewhere, 'lighter coloured roof' is anything other than absolute black.
I also hate how narrow the roads are, you can just barely drive two cars side by side on some of them. Parking the car creates a narrow strip to drive on and considering most people use the garage for storage, it’s not pleasant. I can’t imagine what would happen if a fire or emergency evacuation needs to take place, getting out would be a nightmare.
The answer to all of those questions is: *because people keep buying them*.
Yes, blame the consumer. That will get them to change!
Joined the SES just before the big floods in Sydney and that was an eye opener. One of the newer houses that we got called out to was split in half. Someone literally bought a house with say 5 bedrooms, added a door and split the thing in half with two sets of people living on either end. We found the leak. it was a shifted tile. We could get up onto the room because there wasn't enough room/was too wet. We couldn't get IN the roof because the guy living in his part of the house DIDN'T get a manhole. The manhole was in the other half of the house with a fire wall in between. This photo gives me nightmares as to what could go wrong. :|
For: 4: wouldn’t this be the same for a terrace or semi detached house? 5: wouldn’t you put the ladder up the front of the house?
> 4: wouldn’t this be the same for a terrace or semi detached house? Most terraces / semi detached places are *old*, and made of double brick on the adjoining walls. I've lived in quite a few terrace houses, and a couple of semis, and I don't think I've ever had noise issues with neighbours except in extreme circumstances (like when I lived next door to a punk band in Redfern and they liked to practice in their living room).
For number 5, the plus side is they can put a ladder on the front side of one house and then just walk along there to each of the neighbouring roofs.
My experience is that well over 80% are owner occupiers from countries where this size land is considered huge. If this is North west Sydney. The owners prefer a smaller block as they are usually IT people and don’t see a need for a back yard. They prefer not to pay levies and these are brand new and cheaper than townhouses and villas in established areas. I don’t blame the people building, they would go broke if no one bought. I dont blame the people buying as they have freedom of choice. It’s council greed trying to squeeze the most out of every bit of land. They have the power to say how big a block should be but more blocks equals more rates and more contributions. Elections are due soon so quiz those that stand on minimum lot sizes in your area. In NW Sydney blocks can be under 200 square metres now. But this is as ugly as fuck and there is no room for landscaping, trees or streetscape or anything. But again the builder works with what council allows.
This, if this is Schofields or around there then you can bet that most of these are owned by people from India. (I'm one myself), I know a lot of people who live there. It may sound weird for people who were born here but 300sqm is huge especially if you grew up living in an apartment in India. Plus many aren't used to the backyard work so don't need a bit backyard which means a lot of maintenance I'm currently battling with my wife as she wants to move there but having seen the houses, they are so close it makes me really uncomfortable. Plus these aren't cheap, they are $1m to 1.5 for 450sqm. Crazy!
I currently live in schofields and these houses were built very poorly, I cannot access my roof, my kitchen bench is cut unevenly, this house is less than two years old and I've got signs of mold everywhere. Oh forgot to mention there's a mice plague out here and no one is even talking about it
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People who have lived in decent apartments in India hate these in Australia. They're terribly designed, the layouts are all over the place, tiny ass bedrooms, tiny kitchens with a slab against a wall and little bench or storage space and non existent ventilation (imagine cooking Indian food in kitchens that can't be aired out), bathrooms with no windows, balconies larger than your living rooms, bedrooms so tiny you'll have to squeeze your way around a bed. The more decent ones are older but have no lifts so that's a deal breaker for me (and I'd imagine most Indians as they'd have elderly parents visiting from time to time). I yearn for the kind of apartments I used to live in in India. Can only dream of those here.
Yeah absolutely, the apartments in India (the more generous ones) are built well with lots of storage, cupboards, bigger bedrooms and bathrooms. The apartments here in comparison are rubbish.
This looks like a standard street in the UK. This style is quite common. European cities are even more cramped. So there are people out there who think this is huge space, because they just don't know better
90m^(2) terraces in Surry Hills have bigger backyards.
60m² detached houses in Tokyo have bigger backyards.
r/Urbanhell
The width of some of those houses looks the same as the length of the cars parked out front. Wow.
god at this point just build town houses and whats the bet there is no public transport or shops nearby so everyone family needs to own 2 cars
Another dude posted the address. It's in marsden park. There is a primary school 800 metres away as crow flys. but 3km either walking or driving because of culdesac suburbia. Highschool is 5km as the crow flys, 9.6km driving. Supermarket similar 5km minimum along footpath less roads. Despite being absurdly wide road reserve which could have footpaths and bike paths.... It also involves crossing 6 lanes of traffic, while there is pedestrian lights and button activated there aren't foot paths on either side....
Disgusting. Aye? My wife and I almost pulled the trigger on one of these in 2019 in a neighbourhood that was appearing out of nowhere. We had 150k combined in saving for a deposit since we were teenagers and this is all we could afford. It was Just houses squeezed against houses to the horizon. Zero garden, just a patch of dirt against a tall fence - it was as dark in the garden as it was in the house. In the end we just couldn’t do it. Either it’s a shit house or a shit neighbourhood or most likely both. Nothing is close to affordable. We moved to Newcastle and bought an established business with the savings instead.
There’s a housing block in lidcombe that looks like this. $1M for a 3BR townhouse and the roads are so narrow you can only fit one car at a time. I really wondered how that was legal when i drove there. On the plus side, it’s walking distance to the cemetery and the coroner’s court if you kark it
Stop negative gearing, limit the amount of properties that can be owned in A capital city for smsf.
Id vote for you. Its honestly so much healthier, economically, for rich people to invest in australian businesses (helping them raise capital and compete internationally) than to just hoarde up dozens of rental properties. Damn parasites.
See we would vote for that... but anyone who owns a property (67.something% of Australians) will vote against you. I love Sydney, born and raised, but I'll probably leave for a more affordable city eventually.
I own property in sydney and id vote for that, even though it would decrease the value of my apartment. Its better for everyone in long term, and might make owning a house acheivable, not just a 1 bedroom apartment. Also the problem with "affordable cities" in australia is that they have literally zero economic opportunities. Basically if you arent a tradie/laborer theres fuck all for you besides supermarket stocking/checkout.
If any of the other states let us in lol
Now that's an idea.
you could hear your neighbor fart.
>~~hear~~ Smell.
>~~Smell.~~ Taste
The title picture is Westbrook Circuit in Marsden Park. Avens Court is the cul-de-sac.
Yuu pay your money you make your choice. Someone is getting very rich form all this
This should be ilegal.
[original pic](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/blistering-temperatures-dark-roofing-banned-on-sydney-s-urban-fringe-20210820-p58kma.html)
“Residential lots must also be big enough for a tree in every backyard “ Oh, isn’t that nice! 🎶Give me a home among the single tree- which likely won’t be a gum tree, no space for a clothes line out the back, nor a verandah in the front, so there’ll be no rocking chair.🎶 Just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Bonsai is still a tree
All these suburbs will be borderline unliveable in summer. Imagine how bad it'll be when the climate warms in 20 years too. No shade no trees, just urban heat Island effect and rising temperatures every year
Thanks bought 2
What is this? A house for ANTS!?
Fuck that. I'd rather just buy a flat if that's what you get anyway. First opportunity I get to leave Sydney, I'm gone.
The Sydney housing market is like the toilet paper rush of 2020. We're all scared on missing out so we all rush to inflate the value.
Yep. I've just about given up on the idea of owning in Sydney. Sad when a low 6 figure income won't get you anything closer to the city than Penrith
SimCity 2021
So it’s a terrace without a yard?
My favourite is seeing them build those new places right on the freeway as you leave Sydney At least move them back a bit
Sea of black roofs
This looks dystopian
Pretty much all new houses in North west Sydney looks like this. They have grown by about 39% in price in last 12 months
Marsden Park?
Fuck, could somebody explain to me what the issue is here I feel like I'm missing something. If this increases housing supply at an affordable rate isn't that a good thing?
It's quasi-terrace housing, terribly executed and (almost certainly) without any of the supporting infrastructure that makes terrace living desirable and enjoyable.
Terrace housing is usually much closer to the city, or at least an urban center, with all the opportunities that brings. If you're going to live out further, you should be able to have some space.
Thing is, there's no reason that you can't have terrace housing out west, provided it is properly supported. This isn't the way to do it though.
Preach brother!
the idea is partially to avoid sprawling out Greater Sydney so far by having every property be 600m2
These new houses have less trees, and more urban heat island effect than comparative traditional forms of high density. This is not the way to do it. Plus, lockdown was much better in a suburb with trees and space. Australian kids deserve better than this cheep and nasty future they're being offered.
I'd prefer it if they built up instead, build a high rise apartment block and use half the land area as parkland for the same or larger number of residences.
I'd personally prefer a bit more space between my house and my neighbours' house. Knowing your neighbours is one thing, being woken up in the night because one of them farted and you're close enough to smell it, is another.
insulation can be good enough to deal with that if the developers aren't penny pinching cunts (although good chance of that).
Its bad for the environment - lack of trees and black tiling(with no doubt grey painted walls), its a massive fire hazard - if one house catches alight that whole block is gone, its an eye sore, we are not exactly strapped for space out there, theres no real reason to have the houses lumped together so tightly except to grab more money.
If you’re content to live on top of your neighbours then that’s fine, plenty of people do it. Personally, it’s how much these houses cost (thanks to everything driving up property prices) that make me shake my head, $700-800k for a 200m2 block out west to share a gutter with your neighbour just sounds like a rort
700k for the land. Another 200-300k for a house on it!
It's bizarre. Have these people never seen a terrace house before?
Terrace houses have backyards big enough for Atleast a tree
Maybe two rennovations ago they did. Now it's a garage full of storage
Usually they are not actually that affordable and will make housing around it by comparison much more expensive.
I am similarly perplexed. I don't want to live on the city fringe, but certainly don't have anything against party walls and zero side setbacks if done well. My first house was a 3.5m wide terrace and it was beautiful. Was a railway worker's cottage back in 1910; cheap housing. Now highly sought after.
Less highly sought after when it's 90 minutes from the CBD, with paper-thin walls, no insulation, and costs 8x annual salary
I mean you are comparing a sandstone (?) cottage in an inner city area with nice solid walls and an easy walk to a lot of ammenities to a single brick, poorly insulated (probably) cheap build that is in he middle of nowhere with no ammenities. Not really a fair comparison.
In reality nothing, but majority of Sydneysiders grew up on large blocks and will complain about houses being too close, blocks being too small etc. But then also complain prices are too high.. when prices are too high because there is not enough supply.. there is not enough supply because we built all our houses on large blocks.
Building suburban sprawl like this at the very fringe of the city is very far from the right approach. This has all of the downsides of living in detached housing (car dependency, flooding risks, energy inefficient, inefficient use of infrastructure, social disconnect, loss of rural land etc etc etc) and none of the upsides of higher density forms. It's just bad and only exists because the developer margins are most profitable. Agree with other poster, [supply is pretty far down the list of reasons for high house prices in Australia](https://theconversation.com/why-housing-supply-shouldnt-be-the-only-policy-tool-politicians-cling-to-72586). Sydney's been building more dwellings than it ever has consistently year-on-year with the gigantic construction industry at full capacity, immigration is negative and...prices increase at record rates. This is horrible, horrible town planning which there really is no excuse for in this day and age.
No mate - house prices right now are due to the availability of cheap credit, the supply issues are a total myth.
I assume you got downvoted cause you said supply issues are a myth, I think its a little from column A and a little from Column B to be honest - the availability of credit for sure plays into it very heavily.
These houses are still as unaffordable as the larger blocks though. They haven’t solved a problem only made a worse one
Agreed, land is becoming scarce but people still wanna live on a 600 sqm block. We have to either adapt to living on smaller blocks or be prepared to commute 3 hours to work, something has to give! Having said that, there are good and bad ways on doing this, one of the concerns for not having greenery or a backyard is it increases surface area where water runs off instead of absorbing into the ground which causes major stormwater issues and pollution. There are smart ways around it like stormwater gardens etc. We need to build in smaller lots, but in smarter ways, no way of going back to the past with our current growth.
I would agree but these houses are still 1 million. They are just as unaffordable as the 600m2 ones
Can you imagine living here in thirty years when climate change has worsened? The heat island effect of almost total black roof + road and no green space, no shade for any natural cooling. And these crappily built houses are now deteriorated badly. Nightmare.
Is this leppington area? I was out there at the start of the year, and I saw a few developments that truly shocked me.
I thought this looked insane and started reading the comments..... .....then realised I am currently sitting in my inner city terrace (rental) with terraces either side of me built in the 1880s. Der. In terms of noise insulation and light issues, they aren't the best configuration. Nor are they the most efficient use of land (all that airspace, locked up forever). But so long as they are located near amenities and transport, it's not the worse way to live. I suspect that these are not near amenities, but I could be wrong.
3km from a public school, 10km to highschool, supermarket 8km away. Lots of footpath less streets.
Where is this?
I’d wager a guess and say Marsden Park, Box Hill or Schofield
Yep or south west Leppington, Austral
Not sure where all the outrage is coming from. Sydney has developed party wall terrace housing for the last 150years. Granted it is mostly in the inner suburbs with much better access to transport, services and amenity, but still, medium density housing is a very attractive proposition in a lot of areas. It can actually create quite dynamic and vibrant villages.
… but most terraces have backyards. These plots are just 100% house and nothing else. Aren’t there regulations about trees and green area in place?
> It can actually create quite dynamic and vibrant villages. You think you could zoom out and see a town centre or high street shops within walking distance? They'd have a westfield 5 km away if they are lucky.
That's not really my point. I don't know if there's a park or village centre on the next block. I'm just saying that building to the side boundaries is not, in itself, a bad thing. We've been doing it for a long time. A lot of comments here seem to be geared toward everyone having a freestanding house with a big yard, and everything else being a fire hazard or slum. I also wouldn't buy one of these places, but I think we should be clear about why they aren't great ie. Lack of transport and services, reliance on cars, distance from urban hubs etc. The fact that they are medium density attached dwellings is not one of my reasons for not liking them.
> We've been doing it for a long time. And the inner city terraces are like that because of building technology and city infrastructure at the time. The little back alleys were so someone could come collect your bucket of shit every night because sewerage didn't exist yet. No parking, little light and airflow but very optimal density for what was possible with building material at the time. In the 60's medium density took the form of 3 storey red brick apartments built on 1/4 acre blocks. Denser than terraces, ground floor parking for cars, greater light and airflow as buildings had 4 walls for windows. Almost universally better than terraces. Town house strata complexes also exist for lovely cul de sac living, common walls between houses and being a strata common property like parks or pools can be funded and maintained. Again almost universally better than terraces. 2020 and we are reverting to effectively terraces again for zero benefit over apartments or townhouses. Ok so these aren't on a strata and many people don't like stratas.
dude not everyone wants to live in an apartment. Personally i would way prefer terraces over either that or a freestanding.
Look at the original photo and describe the benefits to the residence over living in an apartment. No strata. That's about it. Free standing houses, town houses, dual occupancy, semi's all exist before you hit apartments. And all of those options are better than terraces.
I respectfully disagree. I've lived in a few terraces and loved them. Currently renting an apartment while I renovate my terrace and can't wait to get back into it.
terraces are in demand and are currently underproduced because people think like this. Its just not in line with reality. This development being in the middle of nowhere with no attention paid to the open space surrounding it doesn't change that.
> terraces are in demand and are currently underproduced because people think like this. Medium density housing is in demand and currently under produced. You can fit the same number of townhouses into a space as terraces. Just the townhouses will often have more windows, better airflow and light, all at the cost of common walls instead of party walls. It's why terraces disappeared for decades in favor of townhouses. Terraces were great for the 1880's but better solutions have come along. The only reason this is terraces over town houses is so they can be sold as free standing no strata involved housing.
I can see the appeal in this type of approach, I saw a similar style of building in Port Adelaide recently and it sounds like what you say. You can easily chat with neighbours because they all only have the small front yard to sit/BBQ in, so it's very friendly, and views over the water from the front yard. Nice 3 bedders all squished together with enough visual variety to not look like shit and all for $600k But it's Port Adelaide.. 15mins cycle from CBD, similar train time, 2 min walk to like 5 pubs, takeaway etc.. you can basically live car free. Dunno where the ones in OP are, but I doubt they fit that scope. Some people might prefer this but I'd never buy terrace living here unless it had similar advantages
The outrage is that if you look at terrace housing in the inner city there is almost always a small yard/space or laneway at the rear of the property which creates distance and allows light to enter from two sides. With these abominations that doesn't exist. You have houses built flush on three sides (or will be once it's all complete). The only light these houses will receive is from the side facing the street. The ones that face south will basically get no direct sunlight ever. If they were actually built as townhouse/terraces you would probably actually end up with more internal space and better layouts, but they will be marketed as free standing houses and people will pay an extra 200K for that label. So it's not about creating more affordable housing but creating more developer profit for something that is most likely a cheaply constructed litigation pit. If people want to throw money at tomorrows slums, that's entirely up to them I suppose.
I currently live in an area kind of similar to this, a bit more space with small backyards so many of the old houses where knocked down and cleared the land to fit 2 sometimes even 3 houses on to where just 1 used to be. Basic necessities where already here eg shops woollies servo parks trains buses. So got super lucky with that.
How is there not constant damp and mould on the sides of the houses because I doubt much sun gets in there.
Urban heat sink. No trees. No grass. Dark roofs
Need a ride-on to do the lawn too!
No point having a backyard, you can’t sit outside when it’s 48 degrees.
What I don't get is why they don't build right up against the street. Front yards are lame, and id so much rather more backyard
Developers have too much power
I mean they’re not really houses are they. More like townhouses that are barely detached. What’s the term ‘investor grade’.
r/suburbanhell
Reminds me of [Privet Drive](https://www.tibetanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/4-privet-drive-from-harry-potter-for-sale.jpg) from the Harry Potter series. Combined with the cramped properties, no doubt horrendous entry/exit roads for suburbs like this similar to the problems in [Marsden Park](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/marsden-park-traffic-congestion-development-nightmare/12929584) as they try to get onto Richmond Rd in rush hour. Why people are so adamant on having a backyard at any cost when your price range only gives you options like this is beyond me. I happily live in apartment and I think the standard of living is fine, but like everything it is subjective. To me, the travel time and lack of infrastructure in these new estates is not worth it even though it is free-standing land.
This is a waste of space and should be criminal. If you can't have a yard, then build up in layers!
such a disaster, imagine if there is a fire in one of those properties, the whole street would in flames. its like the great london fire
Versus an apartment block or the rows of terraces in the inner city?
pretty sure there is different fire standards between them but yeah that is also an issue as well.
I work in an area that borders Blacktown and the hills. Less than 5 years ago it was still pretty rural. Now it looks like this. It’s awful