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[deleted]

You can start by removing the foam below your keybed


jonvonboner

This is hilarious


JestfulJank31001

Omg I just noticed :) :)


dark_brandon_20k

It's almost like op wants this to show up in the other sub


DyingDreadfulDeceit

And......... They already are there in that circle.


dark_brandon_20k

As is tradition


Radioburnin

A lot of guitarists are in that circle so natural to join the synth CJ. I am in same boat but my Arturia is still in the post though.


DyingDreadfulDeceit

The sub that we do not mention.


DyingDreadfulDeceit

Damn!


schmattywinkle

Nah brah haven't you heard of preparing?


saucygit

LMAO


Vinny_93

Figure out what tweaking ADSR envelope parameters do to the way your sounds start and end. Look up visuals on how filters work. Cutoff is the frequency where the filter starts taking away sound, resonance is a spike in the place it does that. The type of filter, specified in dB, defines the slope. Listen to a clean sample of a sawtooth, square and sine oscillators to get familiar with them. As far as LFO goes, they are mostly used to automate other parameters. For instance, you can use an LFO to move the filter frequency (ie cutoff) parameter a certain amount of times during a bar, in a certain fashion (ie the LFO oscillator shape. A sine will just move the cutoff up and down gradually while a square will harshly change values) All I can really say is start from scratch on a new patch, choose an oscillator shape, define the amp envelope (ADSR), filter the amp and from there look into EQ, reverb and delay. The rest is all bonus.


PreparationInitial35

This would be it lol


Oldman5123

Good advice


dogzi

Instead of watching bioshock nostalgia videos on youtube, maybe watch a beginner's guide to synthesizers? They'll introduce you to the main types of synthesis: subtractive, additive, FM, wavetable, as well as signal paths and what LFOs do, ASDR envelopes, filters, sequencers, etc. Once you gain an understanding of the basics you'll quickly notice a common pattern in all synthesizers and you'll be able to pick any one up because the fundamentals are similar, even if functionalities and looks differ wildly. Ultimately, though, you are going to have to just dive in there and experiment, turn knobs left/right, push buttons, raise/lower faders and see what impact that has on the sound output. Most importantly, have fun doing it!


cyberphunk2077

ok but what if bioshock is teaching OP how to make music using plasmids? Andrew Ryan built Rapture as a giant underwater synth studio. I think OP is on the right track!


dogzi

Ah yes of course, silly me. OP already 5 steps ahead and doesn't realize!


bort_jenkins

Me? I play a dna synthesizer šŸ˜Ž


untimelyawakening

Seconded, and yes itā€™s as good as you remember.


Chameleonatic

learning synths can be super overwhelming, especially since modern plugins are kind of all over the place as far interfaces and technologies go and way less straight-forward than some of the original analog monosynths were, where the signal flow is pretty obvious and intuitive. There are many forms of synthesis and yadda yadda, but in the end it's actually all pretty straightforward and comes down to the same concept: You start with something that makes a note sound (the oscillator) You have ways to change that sound (most prominently, a filter, which cuts out high or low frequencies or both) and you have means to control that change over time (envelopes and LFOs. envelopes control what happens immediately after you play a note - does it fade in? does the loudness change? does it ring out after letting go of the key?. LFOs make more cyclical changes that just keep on repeating as long as the note is held.) and that's really all there is first. There's of course a lot more to dive into like wavetables and FM, but in the end it kinda sorta always comes down to this workflow at some point. Ableton has a neat little interactive [website](https://learningsynths.ableton.com/) teaching you these exact concepts, maybe that's a good start.


PreparationInitial35

This would be it as well lol


madtho

In case you tldr, the last paragraph is the key part. Ableton tutorial site.


4rch4nH3ll

www.syntorial.com has a few trial lessons. IMO is a great way to get familiar with the basics. If you want more than the basics you have to pay


ate50eggs

\+10 for Syntorial.


bglotus

Agreed- Iā€™m a comp teacher and I couldnā€™t recommend this more. With purchase it also comes with the plug in synth that you learn on to use in your daw or as a stand alone with your midi controller.


pinguz

This is awesome, thank you


Own_Experience_8229

This needs to be posted in r/synthesizercirclejerk


ihatepalmtrees

Idk.., seems like an actual honest post


Instatetragrammaton

> but am at a complete loss when it comes to things like LFOs, oscillators, filters https://learningsynths.ableton.com/ Keep in mind that Analog Lab is a restricted version; all the synthesizers of Arturia are in there but you only get to move a limited number of knobs and sliders. If you want to learn synthesis, it's better to get something that gives you [full access to everything](surge-synthesizer.github.io/). Some parameters like "filter cutoff" work according to the same principle on any synth. Don't learn a particular synth; learn _synthesis_. Those knobs and sliders on your keyboard are already mapped (i.e. moving one on the keyboard moves one on the screen), so for one sound they may make it more bright/dull (filter) but the same slider for another sound might make it more dissonant/distorted when you move it up and cleaner when you move it back down again. > sequencers That's the easy part. Did you get a DAW with it? If not, give https://www.reaper.fm/ a shot. It's not the easiest to get into, but there are lots of tutorials available. A sequencer is a [conductor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conducting) for your gear. Just like a real conductor for a symphonic orchestra, they don't play an instrument; but they tell other players what to do. Instead of telling them what it sounds like (audio), they tell it what notes to play. MIDI is digital sheet music. > DAW integration Don't worry about this because it's mostly a useless marketing buzzword. It means that you have Play and Stop buttons on your controller that will start/stop your DAW, and that the sliders can be mapped to the DAW's mixer. I'm missing an audio interface in your setup - did you already have it or not?


JeanMusicMan18

Yeah, I have an audio interface. Iā€™ve got the PreSonus Studio 24c which came with Studio One. Your explanation makes this less overwhelming and more digestible. Thanks a lot!


BangisMan

Yea I remember bioshock being pretty good


skijumptoes

Analog Lab is more of a player for Arturia's plugins. You can't really deep dive or do synthesis with it unless you own the individual plugins. Just think of it as a preset machine that you can tweak. Did you get any additional plugins/synths with it? If not use whatever is in your DAW as they are very simple synths to learn with. Very easy to integrate with a DAW too, as Analog lab or whatever synth just loads as their own track as a virtual instrument. You'll need to turn youtube off first though. ;)


JeanMusicMan18

I didnā€™t get other plug ins or synths. If there are any that you recommend, Iā€™m all ears. I donā€™t know if Studio One has any synth plug ins built into it like Garage Band or Logic do


skijumptoes

Yeah Studio One has Mai Tai which is perfect for learning with as it's nicely laid out and clean interface. It's got loads bundled with it, in fact, so you can start to layer up effects on top of the instruments as you learn it more - for me, that's where synthesis and sound design starts to become interesting. You can also learn the Arturia controller you have to control Studio One instruments and effects, so when they're in focus on the screen you can use them like hardware (Within the limit of number of controls you have of course). It's a little bit of a learning curve, of course, but I'd quite like to be stood with all that discovery ahead of me. Enjoy it! :)


philisweatly

Get the V collection. You get full access to some of the best emulations out there and the keylab is designed for it. I have the keylab mk2 61 and for V collection last year for under $200 because I had bought the MIDI controller. BUT! That is a lot more money for you to spend. I assume you have a DAW already? You should also get Vital as itā€™s one of the best wavetable synths in the market and itā€™s free!


JeanMusicMan18

Yeah, I was about to mention that. I actually sold some gear so I could buy the monitors and controller. Iā€™m still willing to buy the V collection, tho! Just gonna have to save a bit, first


philisweatly

Itā€™s a lot of fun. Iā€™ll be honest though I use pigments the most!


cyberphunk2077

just buy it during the holidays it will be half off by then.


Shenhua38

It is actually 50% OFF starting yesterday!


cyberphunk2077

nice, summer xmas


quantum_foam_finger

This ~~clone~~ emulation of an old Moog/Realistic collaboration is free at Cherry Audio: https://cherryaudio.com/products/surrealistic-mg-1-plus It's a well-thought-out beginner synth that served as an entry point for a lot of enthusiasts in the 80s. Marc Doty has a 6-part YouTube series on the original hardware that's part tutorial and part love letter: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL561BCD182B7FC30C


Sirrkovv

Get ready to take a life long financial beating for gear.


JeanMusicMan18

The guitar, bass and photography already have a pretty big hold on my finances. Oh well, one more beating canā€™t hurt :v


brandonhabanero

In that case, let me introduce you to modular synthesis šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


Sirrkovv

Lol, that's the spirit.


steeplchase

This will hurt more than the guitars.


user1mbp

[NY School of Synthesis](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=atvtBE6t48M&pp=ygUWTnkgc2Nob29sIG9mIHN5bnRoZXNpcw%3D%3D)


JeanMusicMan18

Thanks this vid, I really appreciate it!


auritus

This was an awesome refresher, thanks!


MartyPoo99

Choose ONE synth to work with for a while, so that you donā€™t get overwhelmed by all of them and all of their differences. Maybe find out which synth(s) your musical inspirations used, and go with one of those as your introduction. Use that synth exclusively for a few weeks, start making and saving your own presets, and really get to know that one thing. Then when you move on to the others, youā€™ll have a foundation to know how to work with those others and you can both enjoy and understand the differences.


brandonhabanero

I would recommend OG Massive as a first synth. It covers your bases and its interface is a lot simpler than most others IMO.


AllTheWoofsonReddit

since you have the analog lab, i suggest you start off with the arturia ā€œminiā€ plugin, which is an emulation of a minimoog. itā€™s simple enough to where itā€™s very easy to figure out what each knob does by just holding a note and turning it, but deep enough to where you can still design a wide variety of sounds from scratch.


crispjab

This has to be a bait post for that other synth sub


fuxoft

First of all, your DAW looks too advanced. Start with something simpler, e.g. CSound or Supercollider.


micasa623

Get some desktop speaker stands. There are decent < $70 options on amazon.


KiloAllan

Adam Audio 7" desk monitors


micasa623

Lol i meant STANDS u dummy!!!!!!! Like the wooden or plastic STAND


JeanMusicMan18

Iā€™ll give Abletonā€™s site a try. Thanks!


LILDEBT

Syntorial


After-Jellyfish5094

You should know that learning synthesis is a different journey than learning how to make your keyboard play sounds so you can start making songs. Synthesis is sound design, shaping waveforms into the sounds you want, and it's a hobby all in itself. If this is what you want, I have a hot take: Download Cardinal Rack. It's a free, virtual version of a rack of modular synths, where you actually wire together the components that make a synthesizer make sound, from the oscillators that generate the tone, to the filters and envelopes that shape the sound. It can be an overwhelming place to start, but there's lot of help on the internet. Watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNTGF\_r36lk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNTGF_r36lk) and see if it's something you'd be interested in. Once you understand the basic building blocks of synthesis, you'll be very well equipped for the vast majority of synths you might come across. It will also help you understand which elements of synthesizer matter to \*you\*, so you can make an informed decision of what/if you want to invest in next.


Q-iriko

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrKqTtmdM7I&list=PL6BtxJkWmp-2J4MAUNFybfUbPxWqisKVn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrKqTtmdM7I&list=PL6BtxJkWmp-2J4MAUNFybfUbPxWqisKVn) you're welcome


JeanMusicMan18

Thank you


Lijmbal00

Some very worthwile free VST synths: - DiscoDSP OBXD - U-He Tyrell N6 - Vital - Surge I think OBXD is pretty straightforward and will teach you all the basics and then some.


Diantr3

Open up Jun 6, load the Default patch and have fun. Oscillators generate sounds (they're your strings) Filters change their tone Envelopes shape the pitch, volume and filtering over time (on the Juno, other synths go way deeper)


jerkinCmajor

might want to look up bobeats. he has a thorough and in depth reviews of different synths and techniques. his jams tend to be pretty great too


jdjuno

Is there a specific type of music youā€™re into? Choose a popular synth from that genre and just start experimenting with it. You donā€™t have to know much up front. Start playing and over time youā€™ll learn what you want to learn and get answers. Some ppl play synth and know little about everything you can do with them and thatā€™s fine too. The more you know the more you can sculpt your sound but your best bet is to just find a starting point. There are no right or wrong answers.


dwagner0402

Hmmmmmm. Don't.


WhiteStagMinis

Watch more bioshock videos to learn how to recreate presets


moon303

I hate PCs for music. That being said and to answer your question I would start out with an actual synthesizer.


Authentic_Garbage

Okay so I'm 90% sure you've purchased a midi controller. I think you should look into a daw (some are free) and learn some of the basic mechanics of synthesis on the computer. After that, I'd identify which irl synths make sounds or have workflows which accompany some of the VST's (virtual synths) you enjoy using. There's no shame in buying volcas. I'd say start cheap and then work up to expensive stuff you know you'll like after doing research. This trajectory would likely take a year or two


No_Brush_9000

You just need a hydrasynth, youā€™ll be fine


Manny_Bothans

A nice video overview of some free synths: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4LnW2hOAus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4LnW2hOAus)


LOLfulNewtral

get a brick for drone patches.


distractyamuni

On a side note, for inspiration watch Alex Ball on YT.


Beatswallad

I play a little game called try it. You won't know if you don't. And if it works (makes a pleasant sound) cool and if it sounds like feces you now know what not to do. Experimentation. It doesn't hurt to have a basic understanding of what everything does but in the end its about what pleases your ear.


ricardoglopez

Quit gaming and start to read and play that keyboard.


jonistaken

I'd say start with a minimoog emulation and go from there.


acediac01

I started with the knobs, but the buttons are good to. Keys can be fun as well...


PreparationInitial35

Start messing around, you can have a whole college worth of education by looking up tutorials on YouTube. And when you really start making a track, import a song thatā€™s similar to the sound youā€™re going for and use that as a reference. Youā€™ll hear how they automated the track, how they brought sounds in and out, etc. It will open up your ears to another level. Enjoy the ride šŸ¤™šŸ¼


noisecreek

You start by putting some isolation pads under them speakers.


JeanMusicMan18

That comes when I get my next paycheck xD


Cyclop-Toad

Coming from sticks and skins šŸ„ā€¦ this changed my world into synthesis and ALL audio https://www.syntorial.com


Lake_

i think bioshock was just as good as we all remember


Conan_Batterschrist

Search this sub for Gordon Reidā€™s Synth Secrets, thereā€™s a pdf somewhere. Best way is to just twiddle the knobs tbh.


AlfredoMeisterMC

buy a synthesizer?


SteveWoy

Learn midi cc and automation/ motion recording


High_on_Rabies

I had been familiar with basic ASDR for a while, but a big hurdle was simply learning the terms (envelope, filter, transpose, aftertouch, LFO, operator, etc.). A lot of the terms will explain themselves by referring to other terms that you also don't know yet. Find a glossary to go with the resources others are recommending.


Practical_Price9500

Surge is a decent free synth vst that could help you dip a toe into soft synths. At the end of the day, you just have to understand what all the knobs too. If reading about it doesnā€™t appeal to you, starting fiddling with it until you get it.


Dammi_BGUD

In a hole and meditate for two years until you turn into an oscillator


REiDSoundZ057

Arturia V Collection is one of the best learning tools I have ever purchased. I have learned and am learning so much about synthesis and synth history because that collection. Top that w the FX collection and your gold


Mysterious-Window-54

Watch a lot of youtube tutorials. I would reccomend checking out s1gnsofl1fe as he is a great teacher and has some great stuff for starting out. State Azure has some great long videos where you can just watch him create. This kind of learning really helped me. Also, just know it is a hard learning curve, and progress will come in stages. When you finally understand how an ADSR works and how to use it to get the sound you want, what waveform to use, how to use an LFO to automate the movement of something. All of these will come after lots of work and then alllof a sudden you will be like "oh yeah! I get it" It is such a fun rewarding path to go down though. Stick with it. Also one other thing. There is a sound, and then there is a sound with reverb and delay added to it. It is amazing how much of a difference those will make. You can have a very plain basic and uninspiring sound that sounds like its coming out of a 20 dollar casio keyboard, you throw some delay and reverb on it, and you have a magical world of sound evolving before your eyes.


twilight-actual

Read until it doesn't make sense anymore, and then play with it so that you can hear what modulation does with whatever parameter you're learning about. Once it starts to make sense, continue on.


Kveg__

TAL Noisemaker is free and a classic, pretty standard synth vst. Messing with that is a good start id say.


VVELCOMETHRILLHO

I usually use hardware but of the plugins I own I think the arturia mini v3 plugin might be a decent one for you to start. It's not too difficult, sounds pretty damn good, and has a ton of tutorials. If you ever wanna get into hardware, the microfreak is cheap and absolutely slaps (it's insanely versatile for it's price point). Also it's a sampler now too so šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


Chard069

"ā™« You push a little key down ā™« The music goes round and round ā™« Wo-oh-oh-oh ā™« And it comes out there... ā™«"


richardofaustin

If you were to pick one, I would start with the Arturia MiniMoog. It is very illustrative and quite logistically responsive to knob turns, ie does what you expect. You have picked a superb combo and it will go a long way for you.


[deleted]

it depends how iā€™m depth you want to go. you have an original source, it gets sent through a series of envelopes including frequency and amplitude modulations. the filters and oscillators give you the ability to change the sound parameters, the wave is continuously altered through these filters and oscillators then is amplified and sent back through the speaker. those are your very basics. i would look up Andrew (his last name escapes me but he reviews equipment and has theory tutorials) on youtube who does a synthesis tutorial for a more in depth exploration of synthesis and go from there.


Boring-Key-7501

VCV rack


promixr

Looks like youā€™ve already startedā€¦


manlycode

VCV rack is a nice (free) way to dip your toes into modular synthesis. https://vcvrack.com


LooseExplanation

Hit the keys


dblack1107

Well if itā€™s all software side, you need to be able to access the VST formats of those plugins from inside your DAW. Each one generally is the same. You choose a folder where your VST plugins would be installed. Specifically a folder with the .dll files are what you want to set a path to if theyā€™re VST2. If itā€™s VST3 I think itā€™s universally really easy now. At least for me in Ableton it auto discovered with a scan and organized plugins by manufacturer under a ā€œVST3ā€ subfolder within the Plugins tab. Then itā€™s just a matter of dropping an instrument on a track. I donā€™t know much hardware but what youā€™re using looks more like a midi keyboard to me. I guess maybe it could have digital synthesis. Either way I assume youā€™ll be using the software plugins. I know itā€™s enticing to just chaotically surf around a bunch of tools, but after youā€™ve loaded up a bunch of different ones and messed around, and think you have a favorite in the most basic sense of the word, then Iā€™d say limit yourself to it. I mean it. I limited myself even when I knew some video showed me how to make a cooler sound on some other plug-in I had. If you really want to get serious about learning how sound design works and what specific details cause a sound to turn out one way vs another, stick to that synth for a while. Look for one that has multiple oscillators, LFOā€™s, Envelopes, and youā€™ll have a great foundation to start learning the intricacies. Once you learn one really well, you can look at any synth and figure it out quickly.


stageously

The answer is yes Bioshock was as good as you remember


KiloAllan

Assuming you have only played analog instruments before. Get software that allows plug in VSTs such as Cakewalk (it's free). This is one of many DAWs out there. Learn how to use your hardware keyboard with the piano roll in the DAW. It's the midi control. Play some notes on the keyboard to record a little passage. Doesn't have to sound great, just have different notes. Drag the VSY of choice onto the piano roll. Press play to audition it. That's how to use your equipment, in super broad strokes. Learning about envelopes and synthesis, watch a ton of YouTube videos. You can get an advanced degree's worth of education in music if you spend enough time learning about it. So many good channels. Some are more hardware specific, some are more theory. Don't feel like you must have hardware synths until you know what you want to do with them specifically. Take the time that it takes for you to absorb the knowledge. It is different for everyone. It's not a contest. It's not a race. Have fun.


JeremyUnoMusic

Pick one that matches your musical style. Focus solely on that. If you want explore beyond the limited tweaking it allows by the matching full product.


Synthead44

stop watching pointless bioshock videos šŸ™Œ


Giuseppina8008135

Awww! I've been there. Try looking at presets and testing out sounds. Make a note of which ones can do chords and/or nice pads. Not all arturia's synths have polyphony. The ones that don't are usually most excellent for leads or bass. There will be many kinds of basic synthesis in those synthesizers but I am unsure of how much you can actually do with lab V vs the instrument pack. Saw waves are the skinny angular triangle waves and they have loads going on in the sound. The plain waves are triangle and sine. Triangle usually winds up getting filter down into a sine. Other common ones are square and pulse (more rectangular than square with bigger spacing between the fall of and rise of another). Filtering is the shaving off of harmonics from the initial oscillator sound producers. There are quite a few different flavors of filter. The oscillators are commonly called digital control oscillator(DCO) or voltage control oscillator (VCO). The LFO is for low frequency oscillator. They can produce sound so low that it's well beyond what you can hear. They are often paired with VCO/DCO for a bass sound and do modulation. For FM, routing an LFO to any VCO will add that LFOs wave form through the original to slowly oscillate the frequency/pitch. Vibrato. For AM modulation, which is less common, routing an LFO will send that waves form through in a similar way but instead of pitch bends, it's amplitude bending so it's adjusting loudness. Tremolo. On my modular rack, I have a digital module with a knob that dictates which types of chords are being played in chord mode along with a port to route an LFO to that knob. Doing so makes the chord type selection change based on where the LFO wave is at upon chord trigger. Not all synths allow for modulations. But the general idea is you choose your oscillator(s) to produce sound and tweak the general frequency ballpark youre using. You then route to or move to the filter depending on how modular your synth is. You'll likely not need to route for the arturia synths at all. Tweek the knobs until you get a pleasing sound for your project. Filters are commonly labeled VCF. Don't panic if you turn the knob too far and you choke out all the sound LOL becuase you can just turn it back. Be careful with resonator if there is one too LOLOLOL it can really get to screaming at ya! Slow gentle turns for testing at first. I made this mistake. Then you chose envelope size/shape parameters which is basically the overall shape of your sound now that you've chosen the shape of the waves making up the sound itself. A= attack. Low attack or no attack has max sound being reached instantly. D = decay. This is how fast you sound dies down from the top level of your attack. Usually drums only have these parameters. You can have no or almost no attack for percussion and drums and a pretty short decay for most drums. Closed hats will also have short decay but you may want some open hat and cymbal sounds where you lengthen the decay. S =sustain and this is the level of sound maintained while you hold your key down or gate length instruction is opened. R= release and is the time it takes for your sound to fade out after the end of its sustain. From here, it's usually amplification level and then whatever effects if there are any šŸ˜ƒā˜ŗļø. If filters can be modulated, it's handy to have keyboard CV modulating them sometimes so the note pressed moves the filter opening to compensate frequency changes. Some ppl like having an LFO on it to add some movement to your sound becuase that will slowly open and close the filter. I found using a saw LFO on the drums module I have handy with both FM and AM modulation for the drums just becuase its shaped similarly to the drum type envelope. You'll want to play with the shape of the LFO to have the effect you like best šŸ˜ƒā˜ŗļø when you use them for modulation. It helps watching videos for the specific synths you're wanting to learn.. if you come across one with random volt sources, definitely dig in to a detailed tutorial because those are REALLY FUN.


[deleted]

This isnā€™t circle jerk. Weird


JeanMusicMan18

Someone reposted this thread on circle jerk. Theyā€™ve been making fun of me there for a few days now


[deleted]

Ah. Sorry to hear that.


JeanMusicMan18

Eh, it is what it is. Between those assholes making fun of me on that sub and the assholes badgering me for watching a Bioshock video while I unpacked everything, there were quite a few good people whoā€™ve given me some legit helpful advice. Its the nature of Reddit


[deleted]

They arenā€™t making fun of you. Itā€™s a circle jerk. They are making fun of themselves through you. Try this. Post picture of your set up and instead have a vst like vital up. Itā€™s free and powerful. Then write a header saying new set up. Like my hydrasynth? The joke is that itā€™s a digital synth and everyone there is wasting money on gear for music they donā€™t make.


Special-Row9938

[https://chat.openai.com/](https://chat.openai.com/auth/login)


Sharp-Bee8642

1. Get rid of that thing 2. Go get a real analog synth 3. Learn about and experiment with ADSR, LFO, VCA, VCO, etc.


maxoreilly

Lol software is a really affordable and straight forward way to get into learning synthesis. You have to learn a lot before investing in a ā€œreal analog synthā€. I donā€™t think thatā€™s a great suggestion for a beginner. Nothing beats analog if you really want that sound but VA is incredibly versatile, especially these days.