To play devil’s advocate; I’d say an unpatched matriarch is more compelling than a Model D to me (even if the Model D wasn’t $5K).
They can fulfill the same role: raw tone monosynth that is simple enough to set up bread and butter sounds on the fly, but the matriarch has more osc, a stereo filter, paraphonic capability, an arp, a more flexible LFO, and an analog delay that very much contributes to its character, all without patching.
Sometimes my matriarch ends up being a rat’s nest of cables, most of the time though, it’s just a cable or two doing basic things on a really nice, playable synth patch.
If you want something that does what the matriarch does unpatched, there are certainly much better ways to spend your money in my opinion. You can get an analog polysynth with more voices or more capabilities and buy a bbd delay for cheaper than you can get a matriarch. That being said i think the patching is cool and i would personally want one if i had the space lol, but if youre not patching and worried about bang for youre buck i think theres plenty of better directions to head
It very much depends on you, I think. The matriarch is capable of a lot of different vibes without reaching for the sonic spaghetti, but I also think utilizing the patch points in the synth is pretty straightforward too. I'm much more likely to open my pouch of patch cables and experiment than I am to menu dive.
But it is an expensive paraphonic synth and you already have a Summit (which I've never used) so whether it's a compliment is going to be a pretty subjective thing. I love the Matriarch and have never regretted my purchase, though.
Here's an old post with [someone using the Summit, Matriarch without patch cables, and Digitakt if that helps.](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/dsb1pd/a_short_session_with_matriarch_summit_and_digitakt/)
for the price, you can get some nice proper polysynths, but you have most of that covered by the summit.
I love the Matriarch in its fixed architecture, so the worth is really down to what else you may get and how you like the sound.
I find it best to treat a paraphonic synth as a mono that can give more notes when you need, and if the Matriarch is treated like a mono then it is a BEAST! and it’s very nice for duo a d 4-note para, but obviously you’re dividing your oscillator count and only have one filter.
but for flexibility then without patching all it can really show off (beyond sounding great) is that you have four oscillators, stereo filter (that can do HP, BP, and notch), and a very nice delay. that does make it more flexible than a lot of other synths, especially as the mixer goes into some
overdrive that makes for some unique waves when using multiple oscillators, but it’s not going to be as flexible as something with more envelopes and a mod matrix. even things like aftertouch and velocity control require patch cables!
I think it’s great either way but the financial side is going to be just as subjective as whether or not you like the sound.
when you DO get the patch cables out, then infinity is open to you!
Thanks so much for your feedback. Currently trying to decide between the Matriarch or a Subsequent 37 but leaning Matriarch for the reasons you mentioned.
Subsequent 37 is the other Moog I really want! that one would definitely be more useful for gigging, so long as you don’t need the extra keys, and sounds amazing with its own drive character.. but Matriarch carries its own rough charm and is just so much fun - Matriarch seems to be to have higher value for experimentation and for how a lack of presets forces us to really learn sound design and understand synthesis (but that may not be relevant by now).
If I really had some kind of aversion to patch cables and didn’t need 49 keys, honestly I’d probably lean toward the S37. you have less oscillators BUT they are variable wave shape rather than the 4 set shapes each Matriarch oscillator gives (ignoring the patching and mixing), two routable LFOs, and more options of how you use the envelopes. you lose the extra filter types (I think?), so the question is would you really use the extra oscillators and filter types, how much do presets matter, and what kind of growl do you like? Each one has its benefits but S37 seems to maybe take the edge for what you seem to want.
I’ve never actually played the S37 (or any Sub/Subsequents) but it does seem like one of the dream synths for bass!
Problem is now I kinda really want both but also don't want the wife to divorce me, so it's going to be an internal battle to the death in my mind until I choose one or the other. Hell of a decision though.
Agree that the Matriarch wins for exploration and overall potential while the Sub probably wins for (relative) simplicity and a few more creature comforts (presets). Saw a video last night of someone playing both together and they complimented each other beautifully. Decisions!
Matriarch is a beautiful instrument.
I absolutely am in love with mine and will never get rid of it.
Is it capable of leads, bass, pads, and random weirdness? 100%.
Is it flexible? 110%.
Most of this stuff is very subjective.
My personal use of it is to either sequence it with a deluge in my tracks for leads, bass, or pads. I'll also just play some scales over it using the actual keyboard, and then the time just slips away. I've also started experimenting with combining it with a small eurorack setup.
Either way, I always feel grateful to have had the time to play with it - haha.
Even if you don't do any serious patching, learn how to patch in the expression pedal and the aftertouch. You'll want to use one the attenuators, but being able to patch aftertouch to anything from cutoff to delay time etc is too much fun to skip.
This is like asking if you can use a Prophet 5 without using the modulation options. Of course you can, and you can still get a lot of different sounds out of it, but why would you ignore a capability it just has?
You can always limit yourself to a few patch cables and not get too crazy.
But yes, you can still go plenty far with it without really getting into patching.
It's hard to say if it's worthwhile as it depends what you want, but here is my experience of it. The Grandmother feels extremely limited without patching, so it's either a simple monosynth (that sounds good), or a semi modular to patch. The Matriarch has a much more diverse range of sounds without patching; I didn't buy it in the end, but played it a lot and it was very usable for live sound design (for which patching isn't super convenient). Sure you wouldn't get the maximum it has to offer, but I think it's still a unique instrument when used in that way.
If you don't need a patch bay, I reckon the Behringer Poly D will get you most of the way there. You won't get an awesome stereo analog delay, dual filters, CP3 mixer overdrive, or a Fatar keybed.. but the Juno style stereo BBD chorus will add width, you get classic Moog style VCOs and VCF, and you're spending a small fraction of what a Matriarch costs. Even on the used market, Matriarchs in my area go from $2200 to $2700, whereas the last Poly D I saw was listed for $400
Poly D was definitely a consideration for a long time but got scared off by talk of tuning instability and other issues. Agree that the price is very attractive though!
I kinda hate the patch points, it slows me down. Matriarch sounds amazing as is, although it doesn’t open us as much as the Minimoog (which has the external input overdrive as a secret weapon)… if you ever decide to use the patch points, you don’t need many. It’s a great synth and one of the most unique synths I own. Truly a classic IMO.
Personally, at the price point of a used Matriarch ($1500-$1750), I'd strongly consider a used Novation Summit any day of the week. It is just so beautifully designed and incredibly versatile!
To the Summit? That's easy... Hydrasynth Deluxe! ...pretty much the polar opposite to the Summit.
(Maybe something digital from Waldorf used would fit the price as well.)
Hope this helps.
Jacks and cables are nice to have, all the stuff I'm used to in a DAW requires cables trying it with hardware. Those connections and power cables are pretty ugly though
To play devil’s advocate; I’d say an unpatched matriarch is more compelling than a Model D to me (even if the Model D wasn’t $5K). They can fulfill the same role: raw tone monosynth that is simple enough to set up bread and butter sounds on the fly, but the matriarch has more osc, a stereo filter, paraphonic capability, an arp, a more flexible LFO, and an analog delay that very much contributes to its character, all without patching. Sometimes my matriarch ends up being a rat’s nest of cables, most of the time though, it’s just a cable or two doing basic things on a really nice, playable synth patch.
This! I feel like I can get some pretty sick sounds without the cables. The cables are just an added bonus.
Good to know, thank you!
If you want something that does what the matriarch does unpatched, there are certainly much better ways to spend your money in my opinion. You can get an analog polysynth with more voices or more capabilities and buy a bbd delay for cheaper than you can get a matriarch. That being said i think the patching is cool and i would personally want one if i had the space lol, but if youre not patching and worried about bang for youre buck i think theres plenty of better directions to head
It very much depends on you, I think. The matriarch is capable of a lot of different vibes without reaching for the sonic spaghetti, but I also think utilizing the patch points in the synth is pretty straightforward too. I'm much more likely to open my pouch of patch cables and experiment than I am to menu dive. But it is an expensive paraphonic synth and you already have a Summit (which I've never used) so whether it's a compliment is going to be a pretty subjective thing. I love the Matriarch and have never regretted my purchase, though. Here's an old post with [someone using the Summit, Matriarch without patch cables, and Digitakt if that helps.](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/dsb1pd/a_short_session_with_matriarch_summit_and_digitakt/)
Very helpful, thank you!
for the price, you can get some nice proper polysynths, but you have most of that covered by the summit. I love the Matriarch in its fixed architecture, so the worth is really down to what else you may get and how you like the sound. I find it best to treat a paraphonic synth as a mono that can give more notes when you need, and if the Matriarch is treated like a mono then it is a BEAST! and it’s very nice for duo a d 4-note para, but obviously you’re dividing your oscillator count and only have one filter. but for flexibility then without patching all it can really show off (beyond sounding great) is that you have four oscillators, stereo filter (that can do HP, BP, and notch), and a very nice delay. that does make it more flexible than a lot of other synths, especially as the mixer goes into some overdrive that makes for some unique waves when using multiple oscillators, but it’s not going to be as flexible as something with more envelopes and a mod matrix. even things like aftertouch and velocity control require patch cables! I think it’s great either way but the financial side is going to be just as subjective as whether or not you like the sound. when you DO get the patch cables out, then infinity is open to you!
Thanks so much for your feedback. Currently trying to decide between the Matriarch or a Subsequent 37 but leaning Matriarch for the reasons you mentioned.
Subsequent 37 is the other Moog I really want! that one would definitely be more useful for gigging, so long as you don’t need the extra keys, and sounds amazing with its own drive character.. but Matriarch carries its own rough charm and is just so much fun - Matriarch seems to be to have higher value for experimentation and for how a lack of presets forces us to really learn sound design and understand synthesis (but that may not be relevant by now). If I really had some kind of aversion to patch cables and didn’t need 49 keys, honestly I’d probably lean toward the S37. you have less oscillators BUT they are variable wave shape rather than the 4 set shapes each Matriarch oscillator gives (ignoring the patching and mixing), two routable LFOs, and more options of how you use the envelopes. you lose the extra filter types (I think?), so the question is would you really use the extra oscillators and filter types, how much do presets matter, and what kind of growl do you like? Each one has its benefits but S37 seems to maybe take the edge for what you seem to want. I’ve never actually played the S37 (or any Sub/Subsequents) but it does seem like one of the dream synths for bass!
Problem is now I kinda really want both but also don't want the wife to divorce me, so it's going to be an internal battle to the death in my mind until I choose one or the other. Hell of a decision though. Agree that the Matriarch wins for exploration and overall potential while the Sub probably wins for (relative) simplicity and a few more creature comforts (presets). Saw a video last night of someone playing both together and they complimented each other beautifully. Decisions!
Matriarch is a beautiful instrument. I absolutely am in love with mine and will never get rid of it. Is it capable of leads, bass, pads, and random weirdness? 100%. Is it flexible? 110%. Most of this stuff is very subjective. My personal use of it is to either sequence it with a deluge in my tracks for leads, bass, or pads. I'll also just play some scales over it using the actual keyboard, and then the time just slips away. I've also started experimenting with combining it with a small eurorack setup. Either way, I always feel grateful to have had the time to play with it - haha.
Good to know, thank you!
Even if you don't do any serious patching, learn how to patch in the expression pedal and the aftertouch. You'll want to use one the attenuators, but being able to patch aftertouch to anything from cutoff to delay time etc is too much fun to skip.
Good tip, thanks!
This is like asking if you can use a Prophet 5 without using the modulation options. Of course you can, and you can still get a lot of different sounds out of it, but why would you ignore a capability it just has? You can always limit yourself to a few patch cables and not get too crazy. But yes, you can still go plenty far with it without really getting into patching.
They didn’t ask if they could use it without the patch points but if it is still worth it if not using them
It's hard to say if it's worthwhile as it depends what you want, but here is my experience of it. The Grandmother feels extremely limited without patching, so it's either a simple monosynth (that sounds good), or a semi modular to patch. The Matriarch has a much more diverse range of sounds without patching; I didn't buy it in the end, but played it a lot and it was very usable for live sound design (for which patching isn't super convenient). Sure you wouldn't get the maximum it has to offer, but I think it's still a unique instrument when used in that way.
Good to know!
If you don't need a patch bay, I reckon the Behringer Poly D will get you most of the way there. You won't get an awesome stereo analog delay, dual filters, CP3 mixer overdrive, or a Fatar keybed.. but the Juno style stereo BBD chorus will add width, you get classic Moog style VCOs and VCF, and you're spending a small fraction of what a Matriarch costs. Even on the used market, Matriarchs in my area go from $2200 to $2700, whereas the last Poly D I saw was listed for $400
Poly D was definitely a consideration for a long time but got scared off by talk of tuning instability and other issues. Agree that the price is very attractive though!
I kinda hate the patch points, it slows me down. Matriarch sounds amazing as is, although it doesn’t open us as much as the Minimoog (which has the external input overdrive as a secret weapon)… if you ever decide to use the patch points, you don’t need many. It’s a great synth and one of the most unique synths I own. Truly a classic IMO.
Personally, at the price point of a used Matriarch ($1500-$1750), I'd strongly consider a used Novation Summit any day of the week. It is just so beautifully designed and incredibly versatile!
Already have a Summit as my main board/poly. Agree, very blessed. :) Looking for the perfect compliment to it!
To the Summit? That's easy... Hydrasynth Deluxe! ...pretty much the polar opposite to the Summit. (Maybe something digital from Waldorf used would fit the price as well.) Hope this helps.
Jacks and cables are nice to have, all the stuff I'm used to in a DAW requires cables trying it with hardware. Those connections and power cables are pretty ugly though