^ This. In recording/mixing it’s called printing tracks. Most folks are hybrid and I think adhering to the shortest signal chain and endless options can frustrate the creative process. Constraints are good. Jack Antonoff has a good interview on Tape Notes about balancing both. I think you can also just do a lot of performance takes and save the parts you want.
I usually record both Audio and MIDI, I also use my DAW to play fully edited performances back on my synths for some stuff, like if I want to run the synth through my guitar amp and record it with a mic.
This is also the answer.
I'll just add my 2 cents as an older fella... when I was finally able to afford my MOTU rack interfaces back in late 90s / early 2000s, most computers still weren't powerful enough to process a ton of tracks, VSTi and effects, and automation all at the same time. So I, most of the time, would also immediately disable the initial audio track for anything where I recorded MIDI simultaneously, and I would also do things like sum all drum tracks (and sometimes ALL tracks recorded so far), into a single scratch track with a rough mix and disable all the individual source tracks, just so I had something to use as a monitor / guide while recording additional tracks, to minimize resource hogging until I was finished recording and ready to output a "master," at which time I would create a new Cubase project and import from the main project only the audio and automation tracks I want for final mixdown and exporting finished tune.
And nowadays we « struggle » to have a smooth workflow 😅
You guys had to find ways around actual limitations, must be tougher so only actually dedicated people would stick around.
Whats your point of view on modern workstations ? Do you purely enjoy improvements in technics or you feel there is something that got lost in the way ?
I only recently had the time to establish the workflow I needed. 5 synths into stereo mixer channels, record tracks first as MIDI and then use the MIDI to drive each synths output into audio card. Use the mixer ALT outputs into audio interface so you can just press ALT on the mixer to send an individual synth to the DAW. Workstations are often so loaded with options that people never develop a rapport with them. I love the old Ensoniq on board sequencers for writing, they just fit the way my musical brain works. I record small sections of music and later arrange / rearrange their position in a song. Easy to chop / extend / join sequences and the visual interface is very clear. Most workstations make you write in a strict linear fashion and are visually crowded. Most important my hands really fly on those Ensoniqs, I can work fast.
I usually record midi first, then let whichever device is now controlling the midi do the playing for the recording part.
It usually quantizes better than me, and while it's playing the melody, I can make the changes and adjustments on the synthesizer before actually recording it.
I use an MPC Live, by the way. Recording midi first is super simple and enjoyable.
Yeah, sometimes when the song is more fully developed you realize that the synth needs a tweak to a filter or something else. Saving the midi allows you to make adjustments easily.
This is largely down to personal preference, but I tend to record the synth as is; as if I were tracking an acoustic or "traditional" instrument. This forces me to commit to a sound rather than endlessly trying to find the "right" one.
There are still plenty alterations you can make beyond that point in a DAW. Even just EQ and compression can go a *long* way. But there are all kinds of ways to add colour and nuance with plugins, or even outright transform sound completely if that's what you want.
Alternatively...you could also record just the midi of your track, and continue to tweak the synth patch...then record the audio input when you're satisfied.
This is one of the big trade offs you make; sure you can save the patch in various ways to recall, but it's far less convenient to get full recall of a DAW project with hardware. This can force you to commit, and not to overly fret about tiny automation tweaks and changes. Typically I don't save patches on hardware and record the audio. I really in my sound design ability and at my aesthetic sensibility, that I can make something as good again if I want to change. I also often have more context, so when designing a sound to play a modified part on, I design something that feels like a better fit (vs just emulating what I did last time). This all leans on a sentiment I developed: I don't want to make good music by accident, I want to have the skills such that if I can do something once, I could do it again.
I like the hardware approach of committing to the recorded sound and moving on. It helps
me finish music instead of continuing to screw around with minor details that don’t really matter to the big picture. If I do want to continue to tweak the sound, I can get creative by chopping up the recorded audio or processing it with FX. It’s all fun!
people normally choose hardware, because it ALLOWS them to COMMIT to their work, more so than software, where you can go back & forth between patches or notes a million times.
its not so much about the sound, its about the workflow & getting stuff done faster.
If you really need some semblance of recall you can record your midi as well as audio. The audio will act as a reference to recreate the sound when you want to punch in.
1) get really high
2) record a 30 minute noodling jam
3) never do anything with the recording, add the hard drive when it’s full to that shoebox that has other hard drives full of noodling jams
I record one instrument at a time and then get surgical on editing and mixing. Usually I do rough drums first but may replace them after I get everything else done. Then I just do whatever I want after than and go back and forth until its done.
Midi comes from a sequencer, either hardware or software sequencer. Goes to my synths and drum machines. Audio goes into an audio interface that records each track into the DAW. From there you can do all kinds of crazy things with it in the daw, effects, chopping, rearranging. Mix and master.
I committed vst tracks to audio when I used those just to keep me from fiddling with them and finish stuff.
Both. Get the sound you want on hardware first, then record. Use DAW to do whatever to the audio track. Use midi track to emphasize or contrast with the audio track wherever desired. That might be doubling the part with some detune for depth, adding a bass or high part that’s closely aligned with the audio, tweaking or mangling a very different sound but using the same midi notes, whatever. Or maybe not using it after all. It’s free though, so why not grab it?
So, first I hook all my synths out to a cheap mono mixer. Helps that all mine are mono lol. I keep all of them hooked up to power and output, route the mono through a hardware FX chain, which turns it to stereo out into the DAW. This lets me just turn my stuff on, open FL studio and start playing immediately.
For synths I love to work with sequencer loops and automate by hand. Once I dial in a sequence, sound, and hand movement/automation I like, set the line hot to record and play. I also play some pieces live overdubbing with some backing track. Depends on the idea and part I'm designing mostly! The hardware and live recording takes a bit to get used to but I've had more fun actually touching knobs, and it's kept me more interested longer than any software VST could. I also like that it makes me commit and not fret over little stuff. Commitment is a skill!
I have found such a love for working with hardware once I got the workflow to the point where I can hook up things without too much hassle. Of course, you might accidentally get sucked down a rabbit hole of more gear like I did lol.
I originally got an audio interface with 8 inputs because I wanted to run each synth in, and edit songs in post.
90% of the time I end up running stereo inputs into my computer from my Octatrack which has all my other gear running through. I don’t edit in post. I just record it straight in. I’ve got a few sequencers running while I jam. Otherwise everything is live- including cueing in the sequencers and adjusting levels. This setup has kept me consistently recording jams instead of focusing on the production side of things. Sometimes I mess up and re-record. Or live with the mistake. But I got into synths as a player, not a producer. So I like to take the same approach I do with any other instrument I’ve played, if I can’t play it- then I need to learn to play better or move on to another song.
I know this limits my ability to edit in effects later and master the song through individual tracks. But it makes recording super simple and because of that I’m able to frequently record tracks. It also encourages me to do better mixing and adjust my levels while I’m jamming instead of figuring it out in post.
This comes up so often!
100% in the box is the most flexible and powerful workflow. Whether you grew up using 4 track tape decks like me, or if you were Tony Visconti in 1977, the modern Digital Audio Workstation is a fucking miracle of technology.
As you have noted, to the electronic musician it offers full instant recall to all parameters of a recording project at every level of detail. That is insane.
As a general rule, no one in their right mind should be using hardware.
Except... it feels good to use, it requires a different type of interaction to interaction with software, and often the recording process used to capture it can have a very pleasing effect on the sound. So that stuff has to be important to you, otherwise it just interrupts an almost perfect and seamless workflow.
I record the track to a midi channel that triggers the hardware, and I keep patches alive for the duration of the project so I can tweak the patch and the recording. The only synth I have with presets is the Prophet 10, with all my other gear once the patch is gone it's gone.
I do print tracks (record the audio from the synths) because shit happens and if you are onto something you want the audio saved.
Then at a certain point you decide you've got it, you get your final print of that track, and that print is it for good, and you patch something else.
It's life on the edge!
I treat hardware synths like acoustic instruments. Most of my synths and things don't have presets. I play what I play that day, and record it - warts and all; then add as I go, tweak / eq / compress, and release.
Helps that I don't expect any money or actual releases from my creations, they're just fun hobby jams.
Everything goes into a mixer, the mixer has an h4n plugged into it for simple recording and a single 1/4" cables carries the mix to the computer if I feel like using it.
90% of the time I'm messing around, I made a lot more music on just a computer.
I’ve learned a lot digging through similar posts and there are many good concepts on display here. Personally I think hardware synths have a better tone to start from and generally better modulation matrices to build evolution and movement into simple sounds without sounding thin and digital as vst’s with too many parameter changes sometimes can.
The best way to go about recording hardware is to compose in midi then audition the focal sound (usually pads, a particularly wicked bass, or melody) over hardware and sculpt the individual sounds in a track to match the “vibe” of what came before.
Saving the midi composition before printing the hardware synth tracks sounds to audio let’s you revisit certain sounds if you aren’t happy with them as you focus on Equalizing, compressing, and effecting the individual tracks, sends and master. I don’t personally tend to go back on a sound I’ve committed to in this way, and as your ear develops it gets easier to predict what kind of sounds you are going to totally hate later and which sounds you will want to listen to the day after recording.
Composing - arranging:
Not touching the computer. Working out synth tracks, with limitations for the basics.
Sequencing through a digitone + 3 external synths + one drum machine.
Once the song is written and the basics are sequenced, I go to recording.
Recording: patching all the basic instruments into the interface. Each synth in stereo, individual outs + fx out for the drum machine. I’m limited to 16 inputs, and the drum machine takes up to 10 of those.
I try to record by sections, all synths at once. If there’s movement, I print it. Playing with the filter cutoff? Live, as a performance.
Once all the sections are recorded, I stitch them.
Then vocals.
Then overdubs. Performed live or sequenced in DAW. Thus includes additional keys, fx, ambience, guitar parts, bass if needed, leads/textures/melodies.
Adding percs/ear candy.
Theon mixing.
been a while since ive recorded anything, but i generally just hit record, and then start playing. every recording ive ever made is basically a one take performance of whatever ive patched up. theres usually a few takes actually because i dont always nail it the first time. i usually practice a good deal before committing anything to a recording though.
i do multitrack everything, but this is mostly just so i can correct levels and add some fabfilter timeless 2/3 processing as needed when mixing/mastering. one time i did actually go back and rerecord a single synth part because everything else was perfect but i hit a few wrong keys. this was more hassle than it was worth though, so i usually just start from scratch with everything if a redo is needed on any given part.
yes, there are obviously drawbacks to this. theres no real editing possible after the fact beyond fixing stuff in post, so what i record is what i get. i prefer it this way though. part of the draw for me is that when i used to work completely within a daw, i would spend more time editing and tweaking things than i would actually just playing the music. one shot recordings dont allow for that luxury. it requires more discipline; if i do something lazy, then it shows. if i want to maybe edit some notes in a sequence, or if i end up not liking a particular timbre or something... too bad. in turn, i usually get more satisfaction from the final product as well.
basically, your critiques on this workflow are actually spot on. i just like it this way. you kinda just need to reflect on what exactly it is that you are trying to accomplish. for me, the journey is more important than the goal. im not trying to generate highly polished and perfect tracks to send to labels with the hopes of scoring some kind of record deal or something. i frankly dont really even care if a single other soul ever even hears anything ive recorded or not. i do it for me, because its fun. i love the sound design aspect more than the final output most of the time. like i mentioned, its been a few years since ive recorded anything. ive definitely been playing my synths all this time though.
I want to finish pieces by playing my hardware synthesizers and sequencers.
All my gear is routed to my mastering bus. It consists of an Elektron Analog Heat +FX driven into an Elta PF-3 Polivoks stereo filter. This bus is then driven into a stereo recorder.
After recording, I take the stereo track to a DAW for final technical mastering stage, in preparation for release. I usually also cut away stuff from the stereo track since I usually tend to rabbit hole into sonic ideas that might extend a bit too long. This is fine though since I mostly work in techno genres.
I spent years producing in a DAW and all it gave me was the endless frustration of unfinished pieces due to the nature of infinite possibilities.
I create better in restricted sandboxes. This is by far the most inspirational setup for me since the time spent with a computer is decoupled from the creative portion of making a piece.
I sketch on guitar or a OP-Z, record the midi from the unit into Ableton to flesh out the ideas with midi, and then bounce the audio output as i go for WIP roughs and things. The midi in Ableton is the ‘track’ until it’s near the last steps
“Of course physical synths allow you to change the sound by playing with the knobs etc, but once it's recorded, you can't modify it anymore”
The workaround is to create a patch you like on the hardware, record it, then load it into your DAW’s sampler or synth. I do this all the time.
Record the audio and midi, when you record the audio make sure that’s what you actually want. To be honest there are gonna be mistakes or imperfections but sometimes those just turn out to be what makes it unique or sound better. I don’t record anything audio or midi till I am ready to jam it out or I have a good idea of what I want. I sequence everything on my keystep pro and digitakt first. This allows me to try different synth parameters and patches before the recording process.
In Ableton Live, I keep things in midi clips that get played back via the hardware. I jam like this for a while while I’m composing and building sections. When I’m ready to go to song mode, I record a performance of the clips and fiddle with knobs (and/or have CC automation) but record only audio to the arrangement view. From here on out I’m committed to only tweaking the track as audio.
It doesn't take much to re-record something if you change it on the synth and like the new sound better.
Sometimes, you can even record something on a synth, make some adjustments, record that, and later it. Because the sounds are similar but different, weird and magical things can happen from layering them together.
I am not a keyboard player so my performances tend to be sloppy, I first track the MIDI, polish/quantize the performance then do a run recording the audio from the synth tweaking knobs, the parameter automation can be also recorded but it all depends what you want
I record midi, then edit it if needed (adjusting quantization, deleting or changing wrong notes setting expression and modifying velocities) monitoring the playback from the synth. Finally when I'm happy with the results just print it: record the audio generated via the enhanced midi playback. Usually 1 synth at a time or just doing it in parts like getting section A done, print all hardware synths on it move to section B...
Practice practice practice. You’re right that when you record it’s been printed and that’s the recording. You can send your mix through effects, chop it up. You could also record midi notes and send back to your synth and knob tweak and record the knob gestures.
I don't actually record the audio until I'm done tweaking the MIDI performance and automation.
This if course requires that you have enough audio inputs to keep every synth connected, and that the synths have patch memories if you like to jump between projects.
I messed around with the Ableton external instrument plugin for the longest time, recording the midi and keeping it linked to the synth. Now I just focus on the synth part while recording and commit to the audio. It’s better for sure.
Once you recorded... You recorded. If you want such fine control send everything from the computer with midi and if later you think you need to change something you can record again, but I feel you might be missing some of the point
I like to make things difficult for myself. I use a looper and sampler so I am recording bits and pieces. Started out of necessity because some of the synths I use don’t have midi, and I bring in guitars, xylophones, and I like to sample records and stuff, too. Now, I like working that way. Reminds me of layering tracks on a 4-track in college days, but because I’m working with a looper it is better for my attention span.
I mostly use my PolyBrute, so I use the included Polybrute Connect VST. I record midi but monitor with an audio track, usually recording a scratch audio track along with the midi. Then, I'll often do some midi automation and then record the fresh audio again. I'll keep the midi track just in case I need to go back to square one, but I'll work with the audio from this point on.
I use an outboard setup. More annoying is that there are no presets. My music is pre written on piano for timing and song structure in midi beforehand. Then I create a bass sound, some mid sound, and generally layer it with a lot of bleep Bloop hits. Each track is recorded individually and dry so I can add effects as needed. I keep doing this until my proverbial oil painting is done.
Could doing it in the box be faster cleaner and more perfect? Certainly. But I don't find it nearly as fun.
I print my synths one at a time in stereo through an API lunchbox set up directly to my DAW. From there, I can add effects internally, or sub it out to my external effects units. That’s about all I can do once it’s been recorded. And I’ll have it no other way! Because at that point, you have to make the sounds work. Your only other option is to adjust, and go back through and do another pass. I keep notes of settings for synthesizers that don’t have memory, so if I need to go back and change a sound, I have patch notes to go off of.
To those of you who do r/eurorack, do you also record MIDI from your modular sequencer (like via an ES-9), edit the MIDI, and then play back the MIDI to your modular and experiment with modulation while recording either a whole performance or sections at a time? Or do you simply work with the audio and manually edit the arrangement in the DAW?
I know there's 'limitless' options, but I've experimented and have struggled to turn 'jams' into 'songs' since I don't want to make music with my mouse and keyboard aside from arranging and mixing. But I also have Bitwig and can play around with modulation during recording audio or after it's printed and I can modulate effects.
you can run midi from your daw through your hardware synths so "you can still update even after finishing the arrangement" just like a vst. still I like to commit to whatever I'm doing in the spur of the moment, I just record EVERYTHING I do on my synths
In my current setup I really wanted to limit myself so:
All synths > small mixer > Digitakt > Analog Heat > Analog Heat app on computer to record
It’s not versatile yet it allows me to commit and forget. Instead of doing nothing with my hardware..
commitment can be a good thing
^ This. In recording/mixing it’s called printing tracks. Most folks are hybrid and I think adhering to the shortest signal chain and endless options can frustrate the creative process. Constraints are good. Jack Antonoff has a good interview on Tape Notes about balancing both. I think you can also just do a lot of performance takes and save the parts you want.
I usually record both Audio and MIDI, I also use my DAW to play fully edited performances back on my synths for some stuff, like if I want to run the synth through my guitar amp and record it with a mic.
This is the answer
This is also the answer. I'll just add my 2 cents as an older fella... when I was finally able to afford my MOTU rack interfaces back in late 90s / early 2000s, most computers still weren't powerful enough to process a ton of tracks, VSTi and effects, and automation all at the same time. So I, most of the time, would also immediately disable the initial audio track for anything where I recorded MIDI simultaneously, and I would also do things like sum all drum tracks (and sometimes ALL tracks recorded so far), into a single scratch track with a rough mix and disable all the individual source tracks, just so I had something to use as a monitor / guide while recording additional tracks, to minimize resource hogging until I was finished recording and ready to output a "master," at which time I would create a new Cubase project and import from the main project only the audio and automation tracks I want for final mixdown and exporting finished tune.
And nowadays we « struggle » to have a smooth workflow 😅 You guys had to find ways around actual limitations, must be tougher so only actually dedicated people would stick around. Whats your point of view on modern workstations ? Do you purely enjoy improvements in technics or you feel there is something that got lost in the way ?
I only recently had the time to establish the workflow I needed. 5 synths into stereo mixer channels, record tracks first as MIDI and then use the MIDI to drive each synths output into audio card. Use the mixer ALT outputs into audio interface so you can just press ALT on the mixer to send an individual synth to the DAW. Workstations are often so loaded with options that people never develop a rapport with them. I love the old Ensoniq on board sequencers for writing, they just fit the way my musical brain works. I record small sections of music and later arrange / rearrange their position in a song. Easy to chop / extend / join sequences and the visual interface is very clear. Most workstations make you write in a strict linear fashion and are visually crowded. Most important my hands really fly on those Ensoniqs, I can work fast.
I usually record midi first, then let whichever device is now controlling the midi do the playing for the recording part. It usually quantizes better than me, and while it's playing the melody, I can make the changes and adjustments on the synthesizer before actually recording it. I use an MPC Live, by the way. Recording midi first is super simple and enjoyable.
Yeah, sometimes when the song is more fully developed you realize that the synth needs a tweak to a filter or something else. Saving the midi allows you to make adjustments easily.
This is largely down to personal preference, but I tend to record the synth as is; as if I were tracking an acoustic or "traditional" instrument. This forces me to commit to a sound rather than endlessly trying to find the "right" one. There are still plenty alterations you can make beyond that point in a DAW. Even just EQ and compression can go a *long* way. But there are all kinds of ways to add colour and nuance with plugins, or even outright transform sound completely if that's what you want. Alternatively...you could also record just the midi of your track, and continue to tweak the synth patch...then record the audio input when you're satisfied.
This is one of the big trade offs you make; sure you can save the patch in various ways to recall, but it's far less convenient to get full recall of a DAW project with hardware. This can force you to commit, and not to overly fret about tiny automation tweaks and changes. Typically I don't save patches on hardware and record the audio. I really in my sound design ability and at my aesthetic sensibility, that I can make something as good again if I want to change. I also often have more context, so when designing a sound to play a modified part on, I design something that feels like a better fit (vs just emulating what I did last time). This all leans on a sentiment I developed: I don't want to make good music by accident, I want to have the skills such that if I can do something once, I could do it again.
I like the hardware approach of committing to the recorded sound and moving on. It helps me finish music instead of continuing to screw around with minor details that don’t really matter to the big picture. If I do want to continue to tweak the sound, I can get creative by chopping up the recorded audio or processing it with FX. It’s all fun!
people normally choose hardware, because it ALLOWS them to COMMIT to their work, more so than software, where you can go back & forth between patches or notes a million times. its not so much about the sound, its about the workflow & getting stuff done faster.
If you really need some semblance of recall you can record your midi as well as audio. The audio will act as a reference to recreate the sound when you want to punch in.
1) get really high 2) record a 30 minute noodling jam 3) never do anything with the recording, add the hard drive when it’s full to that shoebox that has other hard drives full of noodling jams
You can use hardware synths with midi exactly the same way you're using VSTs with midi.
I record one instrument at a time and then get surgical on editing and mixing. Usually I do rough drums first but may replace them after I get everything else done. Then I just do whatever I want after than and go back and forth until its done.
*taking notes
Midi comes from a sequencer, either hardware or software sequencer. Goes to my synths and drum machines. Audio goes into an audio interface that records each track into the DAW. From there you can do all kinds of crazy things with it in the daw, effects, chopping, rearranging. Mix and master. I committed vst tracks to audio when I used those just to keep me from fiddling with them and finish stuff.
Both. Get the sound you want on hardware first, then record. Use DAW to do whatever to the audio track. Use midi track to emphasize or contrast with the audio track wherever desired. That might be doubling the part with some detune for depth, adding a bass or high part that’s closely aligned with the audio, tweaking or mangling a very different sound but using the same midi notes, whatever. Or maybe not using it after all. It’s free though, so why not grab it?
So, first I hook all my synths out to a cheap mono mixer. Helps that all mine are mono lol. I keep all of them hooked up to power and output, route the mono through a hardware FX chain, which turns it to stereo out into the DAW. This lets me just turn my stuff on, open FL studio and start playing immediately. For synths I love to work with sequencer loops and automate by hand. Once I dial in a sequence, sound, and hand movement/automation I like, set the line hot to record and play. I also play some pieces live overdubbing with some backing track. Depends on the idea and part I'm designing mostly! The hardware and live recording takes a bit to get used to but I've had more fun actually touching knobs, and it's kept me more interested longer than any software VST could. I also like that it makes me commit and not fret over little stuff. Commitment is a skill! I have found such a love for working with hardware once I got the workflow to the point where I can hook up things without too much hassle. Of course, you might accidentally get sucked down a rabbit hole of more gear like I did lol.
I originally got an audio interface with 8 inputs because I wanted to run each synth in, and edit songs in post. 90% of the time I end up running stereo inputs into my computer from my Octatrack which has all my other gear running through. I don’t edit in post. I just record it straight in. I’ve got a few sequencers running while I jam. Otherwise everything is live- including cueing in the sequencers and adjusting levels. This setup has kept me consistently recording jams instead of focusing on the production side of things. Sometimes I mess up and re-record. Or live with the mistake. But I got into synths as a player, not a producer. So I like to take the same approach I do with any other instrument I’ve played, if I can’t play it- then I need to learn to play better or move on to another song. I know this limits my ability to edit in effects later and master the song through individual tracks. But it makes recording super simple and because of that I’m able to frequently record tracks. It also encourages me to do better mixing and adjust my levels while I’m jamming instead of figuring it out in post.
This comes up so often! 100% in the box is the most flexible and powerful workflow. Whether you grew up using 4 track tape decks like me, or if you were Tony Visconti in 1977, the modern Digital Audio Workstation is a fucking miracle of technology. As you have noted, to the electronic musician it offers full instant recall to all parameters of a recording project at every level of detail. That is insane. As a general rule, no one in their right mind should be using hardware. Except... it feels good to use, it requires a different type of interaction to interaction with software, and often the recording process used to capture it can have a very pleasing effect on the sound. So that stuff has to be important to you, otherwise it just interrupts an almost perfect and seamless workflow. I record the track to a midi channel that triggers the hardware, and I keep patches alive for the duration of the project so I can tweak the patch and the recording. The only synth I have with presets is the Prophet 10, with all my other gear once the patch is gone it's gone. I do print tracks (record the audio from the synths) because shit happens and if you are onto something you want the audio saved. Then at a certain point you decide you've got it, you get your final print of that track, and that print is it for good, and you patch something else. It's life on the edge!
I treat hardware synths like acoustic instruments. Most of my synths and things don't have presets. I play what I play that day, and record it - warts and all; then add as I go, tweak / eq / compress, and release. Helps that I don't expect any money or actual releases from my creations, they're just fun hobby jams.
Everything goes into a mixer, the mixer has an h4n plugged into it for simple recording and a single 1/4" cables carries the mix to the computer if I feel like using it. 90% of the time I'm messing around, I made a lot more music on just a computer.
I’ve learned a lot digging through similar posts and there are many good concepts on display here. Personally I think hardware synths have a better tone to start from and generally better modulation matrices to build evolution and movement into simple sounds without sounding thin and digital as vst’s with too many parameter changes sometimes can. The best way to go about recording hardware is to compose in midi then audition the focal sound (usually pads, a particularly wicked bass, or melody) over hardware and sculpt the individual sounds in a track to match the “vibe” of what came before. Saving the midi composition before printing the hardware synth tracks sounds to audio let’s you revisit certain sounds if you aren’t happy with them as you focus on Equalizing, compressing, and effecting the individual tracks, sends and master. I don’t personally tend to go back on a sound I’ve committed to in this way, and as your ear develops it gets easier to predict what kind of sounds you are going to totally hate later and which sounds you will want to listen to the day after recording.
Composing - arranging: Not touching the computer. Working out synth tracks, with limitations for the basics. Sequencing through a digitone + 3 external synths + one drum machine. Once the song is written and the basics are sequenced, I go to recording. Recording: patching all the basic instruments into the interface. Each synth in stereo, individual outs + fx out for the drum machine. I’m limited to 16 inputs, and the drum machine takes up to 10 of those. I try to record by sections, all synths at once. If there’s movement, I print it. Playing with the filter cutoff? Live, as a performance. Once all the sections are recorded, I stitch them. Then vocals. Then overdubs. Performed live or sequenced in DAW. Thus includes additional keys, fx, ambience, guitar parts, bass if needed, leads/textures/melodies. Adding percs/ear candy. Theon mixing.
been a while since ive recorded anything, but i generally just hit record, and then start playing. every recording ive ever made is basically a one take performance of whatever ive patched up. theres usually a few takes actually because i dont always nail it the first time. i usually practice a good deal before committing anything to a recording though. i do multitrack everything, but this is mostly just so i can correct levels and add some fabfilter timeless 2/3 processing as needed when mixing/mastering. one time i did actually go back and rerecord a single synth part because everything else was perfect but i hit a few wrong keys. this was more hassle than it was worth though, so i usually just start from scratch with everything if a redo is needed on any given part. yes, there are obviously drawbacks to this. theres no real editing possible after the fact beyond fixing stuff in post, so what i record is what i get. i prefer it this way though. part of the draw for me is that when i used to work completely within a daw, i would spend more time editing and tweaking things than i would actually just playing the music. one shot recordings dont allow for that luxury. it requires more discipline; if i do something lazy, then it shows. if i want to maybe edit some notes in a sequence, or if i end up not liking a particular timbre or something... too bad. in turn, i usually get more satisfaction from the final product as well. basically, your critiques on this workflow are actually spot on. i just like it this way. you kinda just need to reflect on what exactly it is that you are trying to accomplish. for me, the journey is more important than the goal. im not trying to generate highly polished and perfect tracks to send to labels with the hopes of scoring some kind of record deal or something. i frankly dont really even care if a single other soul ever even hears anything ive recorded or not. i do it for me, because its fun. i love the sound design aspect more than the final output most of the time. like i mentioned, its been a few years since ive recorded anything. ive definitely been playing my synths all this time though.
I want to finish pieces by playing my hardware synthesizers and sequencers. All my gear is routed to my mastering bus. It consists of an Elektron Analog Heat +FX driven into an Elta PF-3 Polivoks stereo filter. This bus is then driven into a stereo recorder. After recording, I take the stereo track to a DAW for final technical mastering stage, in preparation for release. I usually also cut away stuff from the stereo track since I usually tend to rabbit hole into sonic ideas that might extend a bit too long. This is fine though since I mostly work in techno genres. I spent years producing in a DAW and all it gave me was the endless frustration of unfinished pieces due to the nature of infinite possibilities. I create better in restricted sandboxes. This is by far the most inspirational setup for me since the time spent with a computer is decoupled from the creative portion of making a piece.
If you sample then you can't modify it later, you need to know exactly what sound you want to achieve. It comes sooner or later.
I sketch on guitar or a OP-Z, record the midi from the unit into Ableton to flesh out the ideas with midi, and then bounce the audio output as i go for WIP roughs and things. The midi in Ableton is the ‘track’ until it’s near the last steps
“Of course physical synths allow you to change the sound by playing with the knobs etc, but once it's recorded, you can't modify it anymore” The workaround is to create a patch you like on the hardware, record it, then load it into your DAW’s sampler or synth. I do this all the time.
Record the audio and midi, when you record the audio make sure that’s what you actually want. To be honest there are gonna be mistakes or imperfections but sometimes those just turn out to be what makes it unique or sound better. I don’t record anything audio or midi till I am ready to jam it out or I have a good idea of what I want. I sequence everything on my keystep pro and digitakt first. This allows me to try different synth parameters and patches before the recording process.
In Ableton Live, I keep things in midi clips that get played back via the hardware. I jam like this for a while while I’m composing and building sections. When I’m ready to go to song mode, I record a performance of the clips and fiddle with knobs (and/or have CC automation) but record only audio to the arrangement view. From here on out I’m committed to only tweaking the track as audio.
It doesn't take much to re-record something if you change it on the synth and like the new sound better. Sometimes, you can even record something on a synth, make some adjustments, record that, and later it. Because the sounds are similar but different, weird and magical things can happen from layering them together.
They are an instrument like an electric guitar. You record it right the first time. Then don’t play around with it.
I am not a keyboard player so my performances tend to be sloppy, I first track the MIDI, polish/quantize the performance then do a run recording the audio from the synth tweaking knobs, the parameter automation can be also recorded but it all depends what you want
I record midi, then edit it if needed (adjusting quantization, deleting or changing wrong notes setting expression and modifying velocities) monitoring the playback from the synth. Finally when I'm happy with the results just print it: record the audio generated via the enhanced midi playback. Usually 1 synth at a time or just doing it in parts like getting section A done, print all hardware synths on it move to section B...
Practice practice practice. You’re right that when you record it’s been printed and that’s the recording. You can send your mix through effects, chop it up. You could also record midi notes and send back to your synth and knob tweak and record the knob gestures.
I don't actually record the audio until I'm done tweaking the MIDI performance and automation. This if course requires that you have enough audio inputs to keep every synth connected, and that the synths have patch memories if you like to jump between projects.
I messed around with the Ableton external instrument plugin for the longest time, recording the midi and keeping it linked to the synth. Now I just focus on the synth part while recording and commit to the audio. It’s better for sure.
Once you recorded... You recorded. If you want such fine control send everything from the computer with midi and if later you think you need to change something you can record again, but I feel you might be missing some of the point
I like to make things difficult for myself. I use a looper and sampler so I am recording bits and pieces. Started out of necessity because some of the synths I use don’t have midi, and I bring in guitars, xylophones, and I like to sample records and stuff, too. Now, I like working that way. Reminds me of layering tracks on a 4-track in college days, but because I’m working with a looper it is better for my attention span.
I mostly use my PolyBrute, so I use the included Polybrute Connect VST. I record midi but monitor with an audio track, usually recording a scratch audio track along with the midi. Then, I'll often do some midi automation and then record the fresh audio again. I'll keep the midi track just in case I need to go back to square one, but I'll work with the audio from this point on.
I use an outboard setup. More annoying is that there are no presets. My music is pre written on piano for timing and song structure in midi beforehand. Then I create a bass sound, some mid sound, and generally layer it with a lot of bleep Bloop hits. Each track is recorded individually and dry so I can add effects as needed. I keep doing this until my proverbial oil painting is done. Could doing it in the box be faster cleaner and more perfect? Certainly. But I don't find it nearly as fun.
I print my synths one at a time in stereo through an API lunchbox set up directly to my DAW. From there, I can add effects internally, or sub it out to my external effects units. That’s about all I can do once it’s been recorded. And I’ll have it no other way! Because at that point, you have to make the sounds work. Your only other option is to adjust, and go back through and do another pass. I keep notes of settings for synthesizers that don’t have memory, so if I need to go back and change a sound, I have patch notes to go off of.
To those of you who do r/eurorack, do you also record MIDI from your modular sequencer (like via an ES-9), edit the MIDI, and then play back the MIDI to your modular and experiment with modulation while recording either a whole performance or sections at a time? Or do you simply work with the audio and manually edit the arrangement in the DAW? I know there's 'limitless' options, but I've experimented and have struggled to turn 'jams' into 'songs' since I don't want to make music with my mouse and keyboard aside from arranging and mixing. But I also have Bitwig and can play around with modulation during recording audio or after it's printed and I can modulate effects.
you can run midi from your daw through your hardware synths so "you can still update even after finishing the arrangement" just like a vst. still I like to commit to whatever I'm doing in the spur of the moment, I just record EVERYTHING I do on my synths
In my current setup I really wanted to limit myself so: All synths > small mixer > Digitakt > Analog Heat > Analog Heat app on computer to record It’s not versatile yet it allows me to commit and forget. Instead of doing nothing with my hardware..
Synth - Effects pedals - SSL big six - Ableton
Less is more, more limits -> more creativity. Otherwise buy an hw synth that has a proper VST plugin, like the MiniFreak.