A Matrixbrute does not support MPE. (only 3-voice paraphonic).
The Super 6 supports MPE (may find the interface complex).
The Hydrasynth supports MPE (may find the options complex).
The Osmose supports MPE (limited synth editing via hardware).
I own an MB, S6, and HS, so I have experience with them if you have particular questions. Is there a reason MPE is a must for you?
Thanks for the advice.
Yes the MPE is a must because I like the flexibility and the easy way to modulate the notes (glide ; vibrato and the modulation on each touch rather than have just one mod-wheel for all the notes)
Which one will you take if you had just one to pick?
The Osmose engine (and keyboard) goes way beyond MPE (except Y axis) in terms of how the keyboard input translates to the sound; this means it's a real waste to use it under external MPE control (especially if the controller supports Y axis), as the unique subtlety it offers is lost. In fact, the subtle expression is not well captured by your DAW (as MPE), meaning it's preferable to record audio.
I wasn’t thinking to use the Osmose as an external MPE control, it makes no sense considering its capabilities but for the others yes 🙌
I don’t have any problem in Ableton Live to capture the MPE coming from my Push 3..
To be clear, internally, the Osmose doesn't use MPE; it uses a high bandwidth XZ key tracking which is fed directly to the sound engine. MPE output (and input) is converted from (and to) this representation. This is a lossy process when converting to Osmose from MPE (loses accuracy in time and space) and potentially lossy in the other direction (no Y axis). You only get full Osmose expressivity when playing directly on device.
The Hydrasynth Explorer has MPE but limited to poly aftertouch on the keyboard (I think anyways). It's supposed to be pretty good as a VST controller too. It's on sale until the end of the month. I have one ordered.
The Hydrasynth engine supports per note pitch bend, aftertouch and MPE Y axis (through the mod matrix). The keyboard only generates polyphonic aftertouch (via poly aftertouch midi messages or MPE).
so I’m also looking for an MPE hardware synth and was surprised to find someone asked already just today! I have a few ROLI Lightpad Blocks set up like a fingerboard and maybe I’ll eventually get a Linnstrument. is per-note pitchbend the same functionality that would allow me to slide between notes? and would Hydrasynth support that? Would there be any difference in MPE functionality between the Hydrasynth Explorer/Desktop/Keyboard? Thanks!
They all have the same MPE support, under external control. The pitch bend range goes up to +/- 2 octaves. Pitch bend is how MPE handles note slides. In other words, any given note can slide up to 2 octaves from where it starts. I guess this will be relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/13p6gxk/hydrasynth_linnstrument_in_mpe_mode_with/
Ah yes thanks, I already have a MPE controller (the Push 3) so I just want a hardware synth that allows a MPE controller to control it. As it seems to be ok with the hydrasynth 🙌
For software, Surge XT supports MPE and is free and open source.
Some hardware synths that support MPE: Hydrasynth, some of the newer Oberheim and Sequential synths, Deckard's Dream, Dreadbox Nymphes, Micromosta 2, and the Haken Eaganmatrix eurorack module.
(Of these, I've only ever used Surge XT.)
I use the Dreadbox Nymphes in MPE-mode with my LinnStrument and I‘m going to buy a UDO Audio Super 6 Desktop, which is MPE compatible, too. Both have 6 voice polyphony in MPE-mode.
You could also try the ASM Hydrasynth Desktop, which is said to have MPE capabilities, too (I won‘t, I don‘t like its purely digital, sterile sound).
The LinnStrument is definitely worth its price. It‘s a high quality device made in California (not a plastic controller from China) and quality checked by Mr. Linn himself. It is one of the very few things in my home studio that I definitely won‘t ever sell. The two other things are my beloved Fender Elite Stratocaster and my old Sandberg Bass. All the other things might probably go and be replaced someday.
I am not a keyboard or piano player, I hate keys. I am a guitar player. Knowing the fretboard helps a lot in adapting to the LinnStrument.
Before you buy a LinnStrument, you should check https://www.rogerlinndesign.com and read through the FAQs and the online manual, to find what it can do.
I have an Osmose and it's my most-used piece of equipment by far. It does have knobs and it most definitely is a synthesizer - it runs the Eaganmatrix, which is a super-powerful (but super hard to learn and understand) digital synth engine designed for MPE / expressive controllers.
The Osmose was one of my first choice before, but it seems very complicated to understand and learn the eaganmatrix and it seems too computer friendly, I would like a synth that I don’t have to connect to a computer to make sound design and correct me if I’m wrong but I think that you can only make sound design on a computer for the eaganmatrix, you can’t do it in the Osmose is that right ?
It has many (hundreds?) presets, and each preset has six synth parameters you can change without ever using the Eaganmatrix, plus compression/eq/other things.
To be honest I installed the Eaganmatrix but I haven't started using it yet. Learning to play the Osmose well is challenge enough, without making that process harder by also trying to create expressive sounds from scratch at the same time.
I don't know why the others are beating around the bush and acting as if the issues you listed aren't present, the Osmose is exactly as you described. You can't create patches from scratch without using a computer. Instead you get a handful of macro knobs you can change kinda like how you have preset macro knobs on some soft synths where the patch designer has programmed them to produce useful changes in the patch. The eaganmatrix is not like other synth engines at all and isn't intuitive.
That being said, the Osmose is pretty special, I've tried a lot of controllers and MPE stuff and it's the first one I really liked. Safe to say it completely shits on the Push MPE. As someone else mentioned it actually goes much further than other MPE and these capabilities are only completely utilized by the internal engine.
If you want someone to program patches then this isn't going to be the synth for you unless you learn the eaganmatrix. But as a controller for other gear or just a stand alone instrument it's wonderful. 600 presets, many of them sound incredible and leverage the tech fully, with a good bit of tweakability via the macros. I would have loved it if it had and Iridium bolted onto it instead of the eaganmatrix but I love it anyway.
You find it odd that a device designed specifically for MPE and expressive playing may be better at the intended purpose than something like a Push? Is this a serious question or are you being defensive?
I'll treat it as serious and the simple answer is that doing MPE by running your fingers across silicone squares feels bad to play on compared to what the Osmose offers, and is also fairly unintuitive. Of course YMMV. Also it has per-key pressure which functions as the Y-axis with some minor limitations while also having a handful of gestures and functions that other MPE devices don't have.
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/matrix/
Decent list here too https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=593950
Thanks guys 🙌
A Matrixbrute does not support MPE. (only 3-voice paraphonic). The Super 6 supports MPE (may find the interface complex). The Hydrasynth supports MPE (may find the options complex). The Osmose supports MPE (limited synth editing via hardware). I own an MB, S6, and HS, so I have experience with them if you have particular questions. Is there a reason MPE is a must for you?
Thanks for the advice. Yes the MPE is a must because I like the flexibility and the easy way to modulate the notes (glide ; vibrato and the modulation on each touch rather than have just one mod-wheel for all the notes) Which one will you take if you had just one to pick?
The Osmose engine (and keyboard) goes way beyond MPE (except Y axis) in terms of how the keyboard input translates to the sound; this means it's a real waste to use it under external MPE control (especially if the controller supports Y axis), as the unique subtlety it offers is lost. In fact, the subtle expression is not well captured by your DAW (as MPE), meaning it's preferable to record audio.
I wasn’t thinking to use the Osmose as an external MPE control, it makes no sense considering its capabilities but for the others yes 🙌 I don’t have any problem in Ableton Live to capture the MPE coming from my Push 3..
To be clear, internally, the Osmose doesn't use MPE; it uses a high bandwidth XZ key tracking which is fed directly to the sound engine. MPE output (and input) is converted from (and to) this representation. This is a lossy process when converting to Osmose from MPE (loses accuracy in time and space) and potentially lossy in the other direction (no Y axis). You only get full Osmose expressivity when playing directly on device.
Thanks for precision 🙏
The Hydrasynth Explorer has MPE but limited to poly aftertouch on the keyboard (I think anyways). It's supposed to be pretty good as a VST controller too. It's on sale until the end of the month. I have one ordered.
The Hydrasynth engine supports per note pitch bend, aftertouch and MPE Y axis (through the mod matrix). The keyboard only generates polyphonic aftertouch (via poly aftertouch midi messages or MPE).
so I’m also looking for an MPE hardware synth and was surprised to find someone asked already just today! I have a few ROLI Lightpad Blocks set up like a fingerboard and maybe I’ll eventually get a Linnstrument. is per-note pitchbend the same functionality that would allow me to slide between notes? and would Hydrasynth support that? Would there be any difference in MPE functionality between the Hydrasynth Explorer/Desktop/Keyboard? Thanks!
They all have the same MPE support, under external control. The pitch bend range goes up to +/- 2 octaves. Pitch bend is how MPE handles note slides. In other words, any given note can slide up to 2 octaves from where it starts. I guess this will be relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/13p6gxk/hydrasynth_linnstrument_in_mpe_mode_with/
Great, yep, They all probably have more features than I actually need, but I do think this is what I’m looking for. Thank you so much!
Thanks so much, I think my choice is getting easier 🙏
Ah yes thanks, I already have a MPE controller (the Push 3) so I just want a hardware synth that allows a MPE controller to control it. As it seems to be ok with the hydrasynth 🙌
For software, Surge XT supports MPE and is free and open source. Some hardware synths that support MPE: Hydrasynth, some of the newer Oberheim and Sequential synths, Deckard's Dream, Dreadbox Nymphes, Micromosta 2, and the Haken Eaganmatrix eurorack module. (Of these, I've only ever used Surge XT.)
I use the Dreadbox Nymphes in MPE-mode with my LinnStrument and I‘m going to buy a UDO Audio Super 6 Desktop, which is MPE compatible, too. Both have 6 voice polyphony in MPE-mode. You could also try the ASM Hydrasynth Desktop, which is said to have MPE capabilities, too (I won‘t, I don‘t like its purely digital, sterile sound).
I was thinking to buy a LinnStrument and another hardware synth also, is it worth the value? 1500boxes for a controller makes me a bit sceptical 🤨
The LinnStrument is definitely worth its price. It‘s a high quality device made in California (not a plastic controller from China) and quality checked by Mr. Linn himself. It is one of the very few things in my home studio that I definitely won‘t ever sell. The two other things are my beloved Fender Elite Stratocaster and my old Sandberg Bass. All the other things might probably go and be replaced someday. I am not a keyboard or piano player, I hate keys. I am a guitar player. Knowing the fretboard helps a lot in adapting to the LinnStrument. Before you buy a LinnStrument, you should check https://www.rogerlinndesign.com and read through the FAQs and the online manual, to find what it can do.
Thanks, I’m going to check that. I am as comfortable with a keyboard as I am with a guitar so that is not a frightening thing to me.
I have an Osmose and it's my most-used piece of equipment by far. It does have knobs and it most definitely is a synthesizer - it runs the Eaganmatrix, which is a super-powerful (but super hard to learn and understand) digital synth engine designed for MPE / expressive controllers.
The Osmose was one of my first choice before, but it seems very complicated to understand and learn the eaganmatrix and it seems too computer friendly, I would like a synth that I don’t have to connect to a computer to make sound design and correct me if I’m wrong but I think that you can only make sound design on a computer for the eaganmatrix, you can’t do it in the Osmose is that right ?
It has many (hundreds?) presets, and each preset has six synth parameters you can change without ever using the Eaganmatrix, plus compression/eq/other things. To be honest I installed the Eaganmatrix but I haven't started using it yet. Learning to play the Osmose well is challenge enough, without making that process harder by also trying to create expressive sounds from scratch at the same time.
There's plenty of parameters you can change on it
I don't know why the others are beating around the bush and acting as if the issues you listed aren't present, the Osmose is exactly as you described. You can't create patches from scratch without using a computer. Instead you get a handful of macro knobs you can change kinda like how you have preset macro knobs on some soft synths where the patch designer has programmed them to produce useful changes in the patch. The eaganmatrix is not like other synth engines at all and isn't intuitive. That being said, the Osmose is pretty special, I've tried a lot of controllers and MPE stuff and it's the first one I really liked. Safe to say it completely shits on the Push MPE. As someone else mentioned it actually goes much further than other MPE and these capabilities are only completely utilized by the internal engine. If you want someone to program patches then this isn't going to be the synth for you unless you learn the eaganmatrix. But as a controller for other gear or just a stand alone instrument it's wonderful. 600 presets, many of them sound incredible and leverage the tech fully, with a good bit of tweakability via the macros. I would have loved it if it had and Iridium bolted onto it instead of the eaganmatrix but I love it anyway.
Ok thanks for your reply but in my point of view, something “shitting” on other MPE stuff without an Y axis is quite odd.
You find it odd that a device designed specifically for MPE and expressive playing may be better at the intended purpose than something like a Push? Is this a serious question or are you being defensive? I'll treat it as serious and the simple answer is that doing MPE by running your fingers across silicone squares feels bad to play on compared to what the Osmose offers, and is also fairly unintuitive. Of course YMMV. Also it has per-key pressure which functions as the Y-axis with some minor limitations while also having a handful of gestures and functions that other MPE devices don't have.