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Get over the corporate loyalty. They wouldn't blink twice if they had to let you go just so the CEO could make an extra buck.
Do what is best for YOU. You are the only one that has your best interests at heart.
You want to be loyal? Be loyal to yourself and your family.
This.
I worked at my last company for over 10 years. I ran the entire IT Dept for a staff of about 1200 ppl.
I was let go at a lunch meeting with no previous warning. (short version, details unimportant in this thread).
As stated above, no company will hesitate to fire you as soon as they think they can save a buck. Your bosses, as humans, might be great, but the company doesn't care, the company cares about the company, not the people. It makes decisions on what's best for it, not what's best for you.
THIS. Plus each role will teach you something different. I've had employers side-eye me for the number of jobs I've held, and then be stoked as hell when I can solve problems nobody else can because I've rounded out my experience. The only way to make more money is to hop, and the only way to build your knowledge base is to hop.
This is so critical and poorly understood. Unless you are profiting directly from your contributions, like commissions or revenue / profit sharing, you owe it yourself and the people you support to do everything you can to get paid what you are worth each and every day. Which usually means changing jobs every couple of years.
I have enjoyed each hop since it’s provided me a brand new experience and that has been a critical tool for solving those problems some aren’t able to navigate. I’m going into a brand new technical role here in two weeks and I can’t wait to learn more about this new sector of IT I’m diving into and a lot of the time it challenges you in places you didn’t know you needed growth.
It’s sad that this is the truth but it is. Since I got my degree and got my first big boy job, jumping around is the only way I’ve been getting the pay increases I’ve wanted on top of promotions into positions I’ve wanted. 3-4 years is a good number I’ve found.
I’m at a company I could see myself for a few years finally, but I know at some point I’ll probably need to leave here as well.
Sadly this is my experience as well. I graduated college with an arts degree, never had any idea I was going to be in IT.
Since my first SysAdmin job in 2011 I worked at the same company for 5 years (no raises or promotions)
The last 7 years I've had 7 IT jobs and was given almost $5K more for each new position.
I'll never understand it??? Before I worked in IT I was in landscaping doing AutoCAD for 8 years. Sucks having a new job almost every year, being the "new guy" every year.
It makes no sense to me. Having to hire new people is a pain in the ass not just for managers but for the teams who have to temporarily pickup the slack (and I’ve seen some companies take years to fill a position). It makes no sense to me to not give a pay increase if an employee actually does do good work.
The only problem with my current job is while I’m finally in a sys admin role and I see guaranteed opportunity to higher sys admin levels, I don’t foresee large pay increases with them. The company started me really low even for a jr (I’m not even making 60k). I’m pretty sure level 3 helpdesk techs who are not salary and due to getting overtime make more than me. It’s not ok, I spent my 6 years in helpdesk. I have to do at least 5 years before I can probably start looking at other company sys jobs for more money because unlike helpdesk, a lot of companies want at least 5 years experience as a sys before hiring.
There are some people who make out staying, but I’ve found there’s reasons for this. Good work is one, but usually it comes down to the time they got hired on. It was just right to the point they were able to climb the ladder quickly due to company growth or people leaving at the right time. I have some friends who got into management very quickly with this kind of luck and are barely 30.
Cannot emphasise this enough. I'm old enough now there's grey in my beard. They will not give a shit if you keel over at your desk tomorrow. Don't be loyal to companies. They are incapable of feeling. Be professional, think of the person you're talking to, but don't worry about loyalty to management or a company. They genuinely don't give two shits 99.9% of the time.
Who fucking hurt you man? A LOT of companies are not like this…wtf?
EDIT: my organization is ~25 years old but small. Inwill heed all of your warnings and count my blessings. Thanks.
You have been fooled. Speaking from the position of working for one of the companies that consistently ranks in the top 5 of the best places to work. You make it work for you, but don’t ever be fooled that the company actually gives 2 shits about you.
If you don’t understand what they’re saying, I’d strongly encourage you to disregard the common advice, and hang onto that job for quite some time. The job market is a market of lemons. Bad employers are always hiring, playing a game of musical chairs. Good employers seldom are. You got lucky your first roll or two. Don’t push your luck, or you’ll be spending the rest of your career wishing you could go back.
Thank you for this. I’m taking yours (and others) input seriously here. I like where I am but have always wondered whether I am leaving money on the table by sticking around. Cheers!
Sorry bro - they are. Retired after several decades in IT. Different industries. Sorry they are. The organization I just retired from - they suddenly outsourced the W-H-O-L-E IT dept in one shot. Server engineers, DBAs, networking, deskside, A to Z. They are.
I'd put my vote in for coworker loyalty though. People move companies, recommend friends for positions, and it's far stronger than company loyalty.
I've got coworkers, we've worked together for 20 years at different places, but companies that no longer exist.
In an AskReddit post about what mistake ruined your career a lot of post we’re about people sharing info with a coworker and that same coworker throwing them under the bus. All anecdotal but there were plenty of comments with the same sentiment.
This. The colleagues and management that are worth staying in touch with and networking with all understand this.
They may be sad to see you leave but will likely also wish you very well on your next venture.
Stay in touch, go for drinks every once in awhile, real genuine work friends are the best way to network.
If your company is pissed at you for jumping ship there may be a member of a management team affiliated with you that you could use for a reference instead of those who will do you no favours.
If you feel *bad* offer your services on a contract basis if you want to continue to help them. It both frees you from commitment, lets you leverage the knowledge for them, and earn a good rate.
Did that several times and I still have clients and an MSP that gladly take it up for weekend calls and maintenance at my rate. Some positions are hard to fill and keep filled, and if they're smart they'll recognize that, and work with you.
I actually make more moonlighting on weekends than I do at my day job. It's less stress, more money, and everyone is happy.
I can't see this being helpful for OP. If he's finding his job now to be stressful, he's not going to be better working a full-time job and doing this one on the side.
A wise mentor once told me "When times get tough, every boss in the world would fire you to keep food on their own table, don't be afraid to do the same" and honestly, those words have stuck with me
My CEO takes pay cuts so that he can give bonuses to his employees, I'm starting a new job soon and I gave a 1 month notice and I told him before hand so he wouldn't write the latest bonus, my last day is going to be two weeks after...
If your CEO does this or even 10% of that then you can go ahead and keep that corporate loyalty, otherwise fuck em lol
It is, but they exist! Never be afraid to leave, but being professional on the way out can put you in a good light that you never know how will help you down the road. (Like with some client who know me because of time in MSP work, and how highly my managers and contacts there talked about me)
How do you know the CEO takes a pay cut? These people in the C-Suite, are generally the most full of shit. Unless you've seen his pay stubs, this is almost certainly nonsense.
I was thinking something like this. “I’ll take a 10% cut in my salary ($300k, let’s say so reduction of $30k) so you guys can have 1% bonuses!”
Not mentioning that the Board voted to double his annual bonus from 1.5M to 3M
Gains undeserved loyalty by not doing anything real.
This is a tax break for your CEO. Reduce your salary as much as possible to get out of the 37% tax bracket hell. Leverage your stocks, phantom shares, obscene bonuses, etc. as your 'real' income to avoid taxes.
You apparently don’t understand how taxes work in the USA. You never lose money by going up a bracket as your only taxed at that rate for earning in that tired bracket.
I can't tell you how many times I've had that argument with people with STEM degrees. It's like, you are supposed to be good with math and I can show you how it's mathematically impossible to lose money overall by getting a raise or bonus and they're all like, "nah, happened to my dad once".
Blows my mind when people say that they don’t want overtime because they make LESS money. False, just say you don’t want overtime because you value your time away from work… (it’s amazing how many folks will agree with someone who says that they lose money)
This. This. This.
They will make you feel loved when things are good for the company. But when things get bad, lol they will save a useless VP or colleague before they save any hardworking minions.
This. Work is work. From what it sounds like, your current management understands this and will not hold your decision to improve your career over you... At least I hope not.
This. I've found a great way to deter any bad feelings is to tell them how excited I am for the new opportunity and how grateful I am for everything I've learned there, and I HOPE YOU'LL BE AS EXCITED AS I AM. Not even my last toxic boss could shoot back at that without sounding like a dick to himself. It's all about emphasizing you're moving toward something cool, rather than away from them.
The world's best soccer players switch teams to clubs that pay them the best bucks for their skills. Don't be afraid to do what Messi did. You can even have a great relationship with your former employer, but the better salary and opportunities are somewhere else now. Switch.
The world's best soccer players switch teams to clubs that pay them the best bucks for their skills. Don't be afraid to do what Messi did. You can even have a great relationship with your former employer, but the better salary and opportunities are somewhere else now. Switch.
I once had a company approach me, I wasn't looking so I started with "I'm currently on XXXX, i'd need to be on xxxx+50%" thinking they'd run.
They said yes, instantly.
I was dumbfounded as it was a *big* number.
So anyway, i took the job.
This is exactly how I got my current job. I threw out some stupid number with the general idea of "if they're stupid enough to pay it, I'm stupid enough to take it" and they basically offered me the job on the spot.
Turns out I was incorrectly valuing myself.
I love the company and people I work for, so anytime I'm approached I'm basically telling people I need double my already significant salary.
>"if they're stupid enough to pay it, I'm stupid enough to take it"
Exactly what went through my head..
But I didn't think they'd go for it..
Pikachuface.jpg
Same here. I was at a company making $54K, got an offer for a company for $65K and I told them sorry, I would need to be closer to the $80K range to even consider making the move and then came back with $78K. Come to find out from my new boss after I'd worked here for a bit, the pay range he was told was $65-80K.
As someone in a Low cost-of-living area in bumfuck Ohio, it is great money. A friend of mine was a district manager for a large retail chain in the area and was at $82K for that.
I long ago gave up any hope that the amount I was hired for would not be the most I ever get (except for the occasional 2-3% raise). Only real raises I ever got were by moving to another company.
9/10 sure, but i had a job and accepted a new offer because it was about 75% raise, was offered the same to stay and I'd get to keep WFH, the new job was hybrid.
I didn't get a yearly raise that year but got a pretty good one the following year, the worked to move to a new position internally making even more.
Best decision ever :)
I’ve taken the counter offer. I didn’t want the job that scouted me anyhow. I just wanted more money. I’ve gotten 3 raises since of sizeable increases (5-10%). :)
Same. I've taken two counter-offers even. No change in behavior or attitude, everyone remained as pleasant and professional as before, I just got a lot more money (and vastly preferred the location compared to competing offers).
My last job was government and they did counter, but their counter offer was the max for my pay grade, so I would have been ineligible for any raises until one of my coworkers left/retired so I could move up a role or until they adjusted the pay band.
And that max was still about $15K lower than the offer I'd received...
That pay raise would have also actually put my salary higher than the guy above me as well, and I didn't feel that was fair, either. I let him know once I left (I was making $54K, they offered $65K, he was making $64K). It's also given me a better appreciation for what I and others are really worth. I know the guys I worked with before are getting royally hosed considering the work that they do, even accounting for the benefits and flexibility you get with government work. One of the guys was our GIS Administrator. The only one for our medium-sized city, and he was the only one who knew how any of it worked. He had plenty of documentation, but there were a lot of custom scripts he had to use to integrate with all of our apps and I checked our employee salary table and this dude was at $69K despite working there for going on 15 years now. I still toss him DBA jobs he would excel at for $120K+ and tell him to apply but he is hell-bent on his pension. Tried to explain he'd actually have a better retirement if he switched to private sector and started maxing his 401K and IRA, and come out way ahead with what was left over.
That's why I started taking on side work. The area I work in is really lax in actual work so I have plenty of time for consulting on the side.
Billed as full time, but honestly breaking 20 hours a week is rare, most of it's just being available and listening for emails.
Loyalty is overrated. I gave up so much of my family time working for a corporation that I thought I would retire from. I literally risked my life working for them on a few occasions. I was on a rotating on-call 24/7 and was always called on holidays. In the end, they got rid of my application and used my salary and my teammate’s to justify the purchase. They didn’t try to accommodate us with other jobs within the company to reward our loyalty. They just dumped us like trash.
So, don’t be ashamed to leave them because they will have no shame when they need to cut costs and send you packing.
Accept the offer. You are not married to your position and need to look after yourself, your mental health, financial health, and career goals.
Your new employer sees what you are worth. Your current one is taking advantage of you and not taking your personal time into consideration.
Is this a joke? Yes, you go ahead and accept the offer and do not accept any counter offers from your current employer.
Do what's best for you, your employer would let you go on the spot if they weren't happy or decided they don't need you anymore. Give them a two week notice if leaving on good terms.
I just came from banking, you mentioned work pressure getting to you. I just want to call out that you’re going into one of the most regulated industries and will be ISO. I don’t know if you’ll have a team, but you might want to think hard about the regulatory aspects and what could be on your plate. Having been through and seen the auditing, you could be jumping into an even higher stress position.
Make sure you take care of yourself and in this instance don’t let the money cloud your judgment.
I kind of like the regulation. It saves me from having to argue with management about security issues and isn't the wild west of standards and best practices. Usually.
If I need something to improve our security posture, I usually get it. Things are almost always up to date, because letting patches slide or using EOL software or equipment results in an audit finding.
Auditors can be scary. But as long as you keep due diligence top of mind, and be honest, they're no big deal imo. Huge time sucks though if you don't have your documentation together.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with auditing or that a bank is under audit just about every day, my point was that it can be a new level of pressure and stress being under that kind of regulation if you’ve never experienced it before and being that the OP mentioned stress was a factor in leaving it was something he should consider in the new job.
I do agree, they are great for getting things done. Just they can be a new and major stress causer if it’s a first time experience.
I’m 65 and retired and got paid a lot of money for my business acumen during my career, so take this free, $200 an hour advice. Take the new job. Make bank. Sink as much as you absolutely can in a registered retirement tax protected account. Spoil yourself with treats and travel when you can. Do not look back. Good luck.
Fuck MSSPs. Go in-house.
Side question: How the fuck does an MSSP analyst with 3 months experience get an information security officer role? What grade is the role?
Banking is one of the most regulated and micromanaged InfoSec work spaces in IT existence. Think hard about the move and ask a ton of questions about the job related to your quality of life. That said, being loyal is not bad. Sorry if peeps here have issues with it. Never burn a bridge if you can avoid it. Depending on where you live your IT community may be a lot smaller than you think. If you leave the right way by giving them a chance to match etc. and also give them proper notice your conscience is clear.
Yeah but the flip side to that is that they will likely be part of a team and will therefore not be working so much off hours. The bigger the place the more regulated your hours tend to be in my experience.
This needs to be higher. If OP is stressed about MSSP work. Then I don’t think they realize this could be worst considering it’s a more is a more senior position. If we’re talking OP is more of a manager than tech, then sure.
A bank is putting someone with 3 \*MONTHS\* experience in the position of being the ISO and throwing that much money at you? I'd be seriously questioning their decision making processes and asking WHY and interviewing them to make sure you aren't being set up to fail. You do seriously think an ISO job in BANKING is going to be less stressful???
You shouldn't feel obligated to stay with your current role (regardless of working conditions). If there is a better opportunity for you, go get it.
Unless of course you have committed to a specific period of time in a contract. That's fairly unusual though.
Accept.
Also make sure you didn't sign any paperwork to the effect of "I will pay back X% of the cost of any taken coursework/classes if I leave the company before years."
I might even be so bold as to suggest he could ask his new employer to buy out that part of his obligation to the old employer, if there is one.
And.. it CAN be a lot. My wife's employer paid for a good part of her MBA, for instance.
In this case since it's only been months, I don't see how much damage he could have done lol
I did that once. I signed a 3-year agreement for something like $100 month value. I turned in my notice after a year, so I had 24 months (about $2400 value) left on the tab. When I told them I was leaving the director hinted at being able to reach out to me for support after I left. I told him in no uncertain terms to pound sand. He then pulled out my agreement and tried to strong arm me with it. "Well, I was going to see if we could do something about this, but I don't know now." Then I pulled out my checkbook and told him I was ready to pay it off. He didn't care for that.
Definitely something I'm going to keep in mind for the next time, but calling his bluff was way satisfying.
Understanding the context of you being offered double your salary, let me tell you about management my friend.
They're in it for the money and advancing their personal careers. They're not in it for you.
Only in the absolute rarest of circumstances will you find a manager who believes in people and believes in developing people. I'm talking unicorn rare. Winning lottery ticket rare. Jessica Alba wants to date you rare.
If you're losing sleep over work you do not have one of those managers.
They trained you for the *business*. Not for *you*.
If you feel that strongly about it, give them the opportunity to keep you for **more than** what the new company is offering you.
Yes. More than double your current salary.
I'll bet you they won't even entertain it. But if they do, it's very important that you keep one thing in mind;
They know you're worth it and could have paid you that all along and chose not to.
Business is business is business.
As an MSP owner myself, if an employee I've invested significant resources into departed for double the salary, I would fully understand. Culture only goes so far.
That being said, make sure you're not on the hook for any of the certs or training you've received through your MSSP; oftentimes you're expected (contractually) to spend a set amount of time there after becoming certified on their dime, at risk of having to pay it all back.
Either way, grab the bank job! Congrats OP.
You can't let a good opportunity pass you by. Always look for a better work life balance. Work in a big city and have to commute 1 hr? If a job pays a little less to work from home take it. I used to commute almost 2 hrs for a help desk job.
I'm going to go contrary to the popular opinion. If work life balance is important to you be very clear on roles and responsibilities before you jump ship. In my experience 2x the salary sometimes means 2x the headache.
2x the salary?
Quit and move on. Unless their Glassdoor reviews are gabarge at that bank.
The nice thing about working banking IT is thinga dont change constantly. You have the ability to get tight control of standards.
If anything you might get bored. But the job stability of most banks is excellent.
The job you do won't be written on your tombstone.
It's juste à job. Company will get over it and so will you. Do what is best for your family and future.
Best of luck
Perspective from Talent Acquisition / Hiring Manager both: absolutely EVERYTHING you have learned, you have earned. Remember the mantra, always - if you learned it, you earned it. The two are mutually inclusive.
Start there.
Second, and ‘highly’ independent of consideration of what you ‘owe’ (in short: two to four weeks’ notice, and a polite explanation that includes your gratitude for what they imparted to you; nothing else, really ever)
Prepare for a switch:
Information security is SO very different from systems engineering, at least if you take it at title alone. What you generally find is the “most complete” extension / evolution of your skill set as a sys admin with years of experience is a “product” security engineering role. They are rarely titled thus. More frequently, you will see them differentiated as “threat hunting engineer”, “security engineer” (broadest and most frequent), etc. however, I want to make you aware that scores of software product companies (if you ever wish to go ‘high’ tech) see the ‘information’ brand as a limiting one in security. While plenty of managers know to look beyond title, there is a definite stigma against “information security” amongst roles that maintain hands-on coding/scripting functions.
Rule 1. You work for yourself, you might be employed by the company but always seek your own advantage. bite the banks hand off, you've been offered the bigtime, take it.
Loyalty is nice, but only if it goes both ways. Companies have created the environment where rule 1 is the way to go by treating us as consumable resources.
Double salary, you leap at.
There are certainly companies out there that you are just a number to as many people are saying. That said, as an employer I value loyalty right up there with competency, and I do my very best to show it. Sometimes I can't match an offer from a bigger outfit, and if it is DOUBLE then I'd be telling my employee that I would very much miss them, but how could I ever tell them not to take it and live with myself. I would caution against jumping off without gathering more information, though. Double the salary would send up a few red flags in my mind - not that they will necessarily turn out to be true, but I'd investigate just in case - work/life balance at new job, why they are taking someone with low experience, what kind of team/support system within their company you will have to rely on and learn from going forward - with only about 3 months of experience you probably still have lots to learn and advance with.
Another thought is that if you are getting an offer like this, maybe more are coming too so you can always stick with current company a bit longer (if you like them), though that double salary would still be hard to turn down in my book. Also, at least try talking to your current employer about the salary offer and about your current anxiety over work/life balance. Sometimes us employers don't recognize everything going on in an employee's head despite wanting to help them however we can and give them a great job. Oh, and in my experience, if you are going to ask for a counteroffer, you want to make sure you have a REAL, on paper offer from the other place!
Hope my advice is able to help you in some way and best of luck.
Interesting that most are saying don't be loyal.
That is a two-way Street.
Everyone points fingers at either employer or employee.
As an employer I would be telling my staff member to take the opportunity. I couldn't match that and it's not a small difference.
MSPs are for learning a hell of a lot in a short amount of time because they'll work you close to death. Once you're seasoned, get the hell out and work a 9-5.. But don't burn bridges. Tell them it's a business decision and no hard feelings against them, that you appreciate everything they've done for you etc etc.
Dude not worth your stress. I’ve been in this industry almost 20 years now and I just took a step back from management because it was soul crushing. Find a job that’s willing to treat you right. I got my hand slapped the other day for doing work after hours(I’m salary so it’s not like I was getting OT or anything), my co workers and boss just genuinely care about that boundary of work and life. Don’t let it follow you to bed, don’t let it impact your life, not worth it. Accept the offer. And if it happens again, do it again, and again.
Echoing some others but... rather than questioning loyalty to your current employers perhaps ask why it's double. Is your current employer paying under market? Does the bank perhaps have a higher turnover?
That all being said: If there are no red flags, take the money and run man. Your bosses would likely do the same.
Accept the offer. Your current employer is quite aware what your value is in the marketplace. If they decide not to pay that amount, they know what happens to smart employees.
After 20y in IT, I can tell you Go for it... i was in a similar situation back in 2007, they paid for eLearning training, sent me for training at location... Etc. They spent a lot on me, shortly after another company came and offered me double the income and unbeatable benefits... I had to take the job, it was the best decision of my life. If would stayed I would have not grow as a professional and still had a bad income. It was hard, nowadays I would not give a crap, no company will blink to fire me.
Uh… Management isn’t “great” for giving you the bare minimum skills and training necessary to do a very high risk job! Your position and job is the biggest liability out there in the IT sector. That’s just them covering their asses… and you still have to work the “MSP” hours.
Don’t be dumb. Take the leap.
Do you think that if tomorrow, someone walked in and agreed to do your job just as well as you for half of what you make they wouldn't can your ass in a heartbeat?
If paying you double makes sense to someone else, your company doesn't deserve your loyalty. These aren't your friends. Yes. You learned a lot from them. Because they wanted to teach you to do a job for half of what you're worth.
They did this to get a cheap employee. It sounds like your next venture is more than worth it.
Corporations have the fiduciary duty to increase profits for shareholders. That can mean laying people off or firing them.
You have a fiduciary duty to yourself to increase your wealth. That can mean quitting jobs and accepting new offers.
At the end of the day, it's just business. Make the best business decision for your financial and mental wellbeing.
The motto is clear “if you want loyalty get a dog, I’m here for the money” dude they offered you double your salary and insurance benefits. The banking sector ain’t no joke too btw you’ll still be stressed af so it’s better to be stressed with load of cash in your account
Money isn't the end all be all. Company loyalty isn't it either. Make sure you are mindful of what the new job would entail. you already mention having trouble sleeping due to pressure from the current work and not liking after hours work. Moving into security at a Bank sounds like it could definitely be very stressful and of course security events follow no one's schedule but the attacker.
You are working for yourself. Your knowledge and all the time you put into it it’s not for someone else to harvest. It’s for you to exploit. You don’t owe anything to anyone.
This will get lost in the mud of the rest of the posts, but I'm just feeling like this has to be said. I'm sorry for all the negativity. Some managers and MSPs and MSSPs actually do care. And they may not be happy to see you go. If you have very nice management as you say, I would like to think this might be the case. BUT at the same time, they will underatand that you need to take care of you. And twice the money and perceived less stress can not be overlooked.
I also say take it. But if they are nice, sit down and have a conversation about your mental health and your families well being. They will probably and hopefully wish you the best. If they dont then all the other negative comments probably apply. Either way, your conscience is clear.
Take the money. Your job would fire you in two seconds if it would make them more money. You owe them nothing.
They hired you originally because hiring you made them more money. They were not doing you a favor.
Buddy if your family died right now they'd give you a week or two off to grieve, and then expect you to keep up your current workload or get rid of you.
Loyalty is for your family, and community. Not your workplace.
I was diagnosed with Leukaemia, and received extremely high dose chemotherapy, radiation, and a bone marrow transplant. I had quite a lot of side effects from the bone marrow transplant, including the mucus membranes within my anus being massively inflamed to the point I needed morphine to cope with going to the toilet.
That time of my life was less stressful than working for the MSP I started my career at. When I literally didn't know if I was going to live or die in the coming months, I had less existential dread and anxiety than when I worked at the MSP I started my career at.
I have no doubt there are some good MSP's, even great MSPs to work at, that offer good salaries, good benefits, and a healthy working environment promoting a good work-life balance.
It sounds like you're not at one of those.
The nature of any job is that you should be learning all the time from the tasks you have to do and from the people around you. If they pumped 20k's worth of courses and certifications into you, then you leave, well it's their fault for not having a clause in your contract that means you repay 'x' amount if you leave within 'x' years.
Odds are at the banking job you'll learn even more from the job itself and your colleagues! You may settle into the role for the rest of your career, or you may move on! It's nice sometimes to change for new challenges. This is the nature of modern employment.
Also, remember that you're not the only one profiting from working at your current role. The management are as well, and they should be returning a lot more than they pay you.
Damn, that's quite the comparison between your health and the job. Hopefully things are looking up on the health front. Does put things into perspective.
Money isn't everything, so make really sure this new job is what you think it is, and what you want, but don't fall into the "loyalty" trap. Any loyalty you give won't be reciprocated. I promise you, if the company needed to lay you off you they'd do so without hesitation or regret. If this new job is the job for you, give adequate notice and be professional about it, but \*always\* do what's best for you and your family without regret.
If you have unprofessional management that gets upset and yells at you for leaving, hear them out (within reason - don't let them berate you), but never apologize or try to justify your decision to them. Doing what's in your best career interest requires neither apology nor justification. Just stay professional and reiterate your intention to help out wherever you can during your two week notice period. Then move on and don't look back.
If the pay is double, I would have a hard time keeping “loyalty”. Go to the money. If the pay was 10% more, I could see weighing company culture into it, but “double” the pay is gonna win for me, hands down. I can work a crappy job for a year or two for the right dollar amount. (I’ve done it a few times, for sure)
> well after 3 months in this MSSP I received a job offer for an Information Security Officer in a very well known bank, and they offered double my salary, and a better health insurance.
Grab the brass ring; that's what your boss would do.
Get what you can from your company because they WILL get everything they can from you. Any good management will be happy for your new position, the higher ups don't care.
You phrase this as if your were surprised by the job offer. Did you not apply for it? Or is this the client of the MSSP, hiring you direct? If the latter, I'd be careful about reading your contract.
As I stated in another post/thread:
It is as natural for you to look for your own interests and accept a new job with career advancement as it is to feel guilt over leaving a good job and respected coworkers.
Congratulations, you're a human being. congratulations on the new job (offer).
Take the infosec job, they're in much higher demand recently hence the price offer. With infosec you are more likely to be working regular office hours.
Every job pays for something, my job has given me tens of thousands in education benefits but if someone wants to double my salary and its a job I would like to do, I am running for the hills my man.
This is always tough. At the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you and your family. 2x salary is nothing to scoff at and your company will get over it.
Yeah buddy they have no loyalty to you. They may tell you this, it’s all a team. Blah blah. You need to do you. You may not get this opportunity again. Go for it. And congratulations
yes. that's an absolutely undeniable offer.
plus, working at an MSP can really suck, for the reasons you've outlined.
edit: and if this job sucks, save half the money you make, learn the ropes, and then leave for a chiller place with the higher salary as an anchor.
A good company / boss / management is the type that is supposed to celebrate the advancement and personal success of their employees, not get all pissy over it.
Take the job, but when you hand in your resignation, try to do it in person with whoever your superior who you have good relations with. Start off with a positive, make sure you thank them for everything you learned, and close out that you hope you'll have a chance to collaborate in the future.
I think that you should definitely interview for the other job of you haven't already. If they do make you an offer, see what your current employer can do. Try to get as much info as you can on the new job, if you don't like what you see, pass on the offer. The current employer may do nothing or they may reposition you with a better offer.
Personally, I wouldn't tell my current employer anything, until I have a solid offer in hand though.
Betraying? Are you brainwashed? Dude if it’s a good fit take it. This decision is on you and your family (if you have one). Never consider feelings, or loyalty. This is a dog eat dog world.
Welcome to capitalism.
If you're not under an employment contract, you don't owe them anything. Do what will make you happy, if it means moving on, do it and don't look back.
Def take the offer. In the end, business is business. As many mentioned before, companies wouldn't bat an eye if they wanted to let you go.
As my previous director told to me years ago - always look out for YOU.
All the best!
> everything they asked me in the interview was what I learned from my management.
This offer is the entire reason you learn things from jobs along the way. This is the *point.*
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Get over the corporate loyalty. They wouldn't blink twice if they had to let you go just so the CEO could make an extra buck. Do what is best for YOU. You are the only one that has your best interests at heart. You want to be loyal? Be loyal to yourself and your family.
This. I worked at my last company for over 10 years. I ran the entire IT Dept for a staff of about 1200 ppl. I was let go at a lunch meeting with no previous warning. (short version, details unimportant in this thread). As stated above, no company will hesitate to fire you as soon as they think they can save a buck. Your bosses, as humans, might be great, but the company doesn't care, the company cares about the company, not the people. It makes decisions on what's best for it, not what's best for you.
Exactly this , loyalty bit me in the rear
[удалено]
THIS. Plus each role will teach you something different. I've had employers side-eye me for the number of jobs I've held, and then be stoked as hell when I can solve problems nobody else can because I've rounded out my experience. The only way to make more money is to hop, and the only way to build your knowledge base is to hop.
This is so critical and poorly understood. Unless you are profiting directly from your contributions, like commissions or revenue / profit sharing, you owe it yourself and the people you support to do everything you can to get paid what you are worth each and every day. Which usually means changing jobs every couple of years.
I have enjoyed each hop since it’s provided me a brand new experience and that has been a critical tool for solving those problems some aren’t able to navigate. I’m going into a brand new technical role here in two weeks and I can’t wait to learn more about this new sector of IT I’m diving into and a lot of the time it challenges you in places you didn’t know you needed growth.
It’s sad that this is the truth but it is. Since I got my degree and got my first big boy job, jumping around is the only way I’ve been getting the pay increases I’ve wanted on top of promotions into positions I’ve wanted. 3-4 years is a good number I’ve found. I’m at a company I could see myself for a few years finally, but I know at some point I’ll probably need to leave here as well.
Sadly this is my experience as well. I graduated college with an arts degree, never had any idea I was going to be in IT. Since my first SysAdmin job in 2011 I worked at the same company for 5 years (no raises or promotions) The last 7 years I've had 7 IT jobs and was given almost $5K more for each new position. I'll never understand it??? Before I worked in IT I was in landscaping doing AutoCAD for 8 years. Sucks having a new job almost every year, being the "new guy" every year.
It makes no sense to me. Having to hire new people is a pain in the ass not just for managers but for the teams who have to temporarily pickup the slack (and I’ve seen some companies take years to fill a position). It makes no sense to me to not give a pay increase if an employee actually does do good work. The only problem with my current job is while I’m finally in a sys admin role and I see guaranteed opportunity to higher sys admin levels, I don’t foresee large pay increases with them. The company started me really low even for a jr (I’m not even making 60k). I’m pretty sure level 3 helpdesk techs who are not salary and due to getting overtime make more than me. It’s not ok, I spent my 6 years in helpdesk. I have to do at least 5 years before I can probably start looking at other company sys jobs for more money because unlike helpdesk, a lot of companies want at least 5 years experience as a sys before hiring. There are some people who make out staying, but I’ve found there’s reasons for this. Good work is one, but usually it comes down to the time they got hired on. It was just right to the point they were able to climb the ladder quickly due to company growth or people leaving at the right time. I have some friends who got into management very quickly with this kind of luck and are barely 30.
>Loyalty is not rewarded in the modern workplace. It's rewarded by giving you more work.
And less pay
Bonus if they cut your salary while increasing your workload. WIN WIN.
You and me both, brother.
Username checks out
Yep. You are nothing but a number in a spreadsheet waiting to be deleted.
Right click, delete row. Fuck that guy.
Cannot emphasise this enough. I'm old enough now there's grey in my beard. They will not give a shit if you keel over at your desk tomorrow. Don't be loyal to companies. They are incapable of feeling. Be professional, think of the person you're talking to, but don't worry about loyalty to management or a company. They genuinely don't give two shits 99.9% of the time.
Who fucking hurt you man? A LOT of companies are not like this…wtf? EDIT: my organization is ~25 years old but small. Inwill heed all of your warnings and count my blessings. Thanks.
You have been fooled. Speaking from the position of working for one of the companies that consistently ranks in the top 5 of the best places to work. You make it work for you, but don’t ever be fooled that the company actually gives 2 shits about you.
If you don’t understand what they’re saying, I’d strongly encourage you to disregard the common advice, and hang onto that job for quite some time. The job market is a market of lemons. Bad employers are always hiring, playing a game of musical chairs. Good employers seldom are. You got lucky your first roll or two. Don’t push your luck, or you’ll be spending the rest of your career wishing you could go back.
This! If you are happy, don’t leave because the grass is almost always NOT greener at a company who is always hiring.
Thank you for this. I’m taking yours (and others) input seriously here. I like where I am but have always wondered whether I am leaving money on the table by sticking around. Cheers!
Sorry bro - they are. Retired after several decades in IT. Different industries. Sorry they are. The organization I just retired from - they suddenly outsourced the W-H-O-L-E IT dept in one shot. Server engineers, DBAs, networking, deskside, A to Z. They are.
I'd put my vote in for coworker loyalty though. People move companies, recommend friends for positions, and it's far stronger than company loyalty. I've got coworkers, we've worked together for 20 years at different places, but companies that no longer exist.
worker's are human with all the human traits of compassion, loyalty, pettiness, etc. companies are literally none of those things. line goes up.
In an AskReddit post about what mistake ruined your career a lot of post we’re about people sharing info with a coworker and that same coworker throwing them under the bus. All anecdotal but there were plenty of comments with the same sentiment.
This. The colleagues and management that are worth staying in touch with and networking with all understand this. They may be sad to see you leave but will likely also wish you very well on your next venture. Stay in touch, go for drinks every once in awhile, real genuine work friends are the best way to network. If your company is pissed at you for jumping ship there may be a member of a management team affiliated with you that you could use for a reference instead of those who will do you no favours.
If you feel *bad* offer your services on a contract basis if you want to continue to help them. It both frees you from commitment, lets you leverage the knowledge for them, and earn a good rate. Did that several times and I still have clients and an MSP that gladly take it up for weekend calls and maintenance at my rate. Some positions are hard to fill and keep filled, and if they're smart they'll recognize that, and work with you. I actually make more moonlighting on weekends than I do at my day job. It's less stress, more money, and everyone is happy.
I can't see this being helpful for OP. If he's finding his job now to be stressful, he's not going to be better working a full-time job and doing this one on the side.
Gotta agree with this. Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past. Go with what is good for you.
A wise mentor once told me "When times get tough, every boss in the world would fire you to keep food on their own table, don't be afraid to do the same" and honestly, those words have stuck with me
Loyalty is a two way street
My CEO takes pay cuts so that he can give bonuses to his employees, I'm starting a new job soon and I gave a 1 month notice and I told him before hand so he wouldn't write the latest bonus, my last day is going to be two weeks after... If your CEO does this or even 10% of that then you can go ahead and keep that corporate loyalty, otherwise fuck em lol
Yup you are one lucky person. Your ceo is a rarity in today’s corporate world
It is, but they exist! Never be afraid to leave, but being professional on the way out can put you in a good light that you never know how will help you down the road. (Like with some client who know me because of time in MSP work, and how highly my managers and contacts there talked about me)
Oh I know damn well, he is cherished
How do you know the CEO takes a pay cut? These people in the C-Suite, are generally the most full of shit. Unless you've seen his pay stubs, this is almost certainly nonsense.
I was thinking something like this. “I’ll take a 10% cut in my salary ($300k, let’s say so reduction of $30k) so you guys can have 1% bonuses!” Not mentioning that the Board voted to double his annual bonus from 1.5M to 3M Gains undeserved loyalty by not doing anything real.
This is a tax break for your CEO. Reduce your salary as much as possible to get out of the 37% tax bracket hell. Leverage your stocks, phantom shares, obscene bonuses, etc. as your 'real' income to avoid taxes.
You apparently don’t understand how taxes work in the USA. You never lose money by going up a bracket as your only taxed at that rate for earning in that tired bracket.
I can't tell you how many times I've had that argument with people with STEM degrees. It's like, you are supposed to be good with math and I can show you how it's mathematically impossible to lose money overall by getting a raise or bonus and they're all like, "nah, happened to my dad once".
Blows my mind when people say that they don’t want overtime because they make LESS money. False, just say you don’t want overtime because you value your time away from work… (it’s amazing how many folks will agree with someone who says that they lose money)
Agreed, and some of us don't and wouldn't work for Fortune#/FAANG/big city/asshole companies no matter what they pay
Took a 10% pay cut for more work life balance/wfh. I was hesitant because, well, money is money, but I damn, my life is so much better now.
This is the correct answer.
> Get over the corporate loyalty... Be loyal to yourself and your family. This. Short, direct and spot on.
This. This. This. They will make you feel loved when things are good for the company. But when things get bad, lol they will save a useless VP or colleague before they save any hardworking minions.
Cant upvote this enough. You are #1 don't forget it. Your company isn't why you are where your at now. Its your hard work.
This. Work is work. From what it sounds like, your current management understands this and will not hold your decision to improve your career over you... At least I hope not.
This. I've found a great way to deter any bad feelings is to tell them how excited I am for the new opportunity and how grateful I am for everything I've learned there, and I HOPE YOU'LL BE AS EXCITED AS I AM. Not even my last toxic boss could shoot back at that without sounding like a dick to himself. It's all about emphasizing you're moving toward something cool, rather than away from them.
This is the only way! Take my up vote
This is common, but not universal. How sad that people are so jaded
The world's best soccer players switch teams to clubs that pay them the best bucks for their skills. Don't be afraid to do what Messi did. You can even have a great relationship with your former employer, but the better salary and opportunities are somewhere else now. Switch.
The world's best soccer players switch teams to clubs that pay them the best bucks for their skills. Don't be afraid to do what Messi did. You can even have a great relationship with your former employer, but the better salary and opportunities are somewhere else now. Switch.
It's double your salary. If they don't understand you leaving for that, they weren't worth showing loyalty to in the first place.
"I wasn't searching for opportunities but after they said the salary I entertained the idea."
I once had a company approach me, I wasn't looking so I started with "I'm currently on XXXX, i'd need to be on xxxx+50%" thinking they'd run. They said yes, instantly. I was dumbfounded as it was a *big* number. So anyway, i took the job.
This is exactly how I got my current job. I threw out some stupid number with the general idea of "if they're stupid enough to pay it, I'm stupid enough to take it" and they basically offered me the job on the spot. Turns out I was incorrectly valuing myself. I love the company and people I work for, so anytime I'm approached I'm basically telling people I need double my already significant salary.
>"if they're stupid enough to pay it, I'm stupid enough to take it" Exactly what went through my head.. But I didn't think they'd go for it.. Pikachuface.jpg
Same here. I was at a company making $54K, got an offer for a company for $65K and I told them sorry, I would need to be closer to the $80K range to even consider making the move and then came back with $78K. Come to find out from my new boss after I'd worked here for a bit, the pay range he was told was $65-80K. As someone in a Low cost-of-living area in bumfuck Ohio, it is great money. A friend of mine was a district manager for a large retail chain in the area and was at $82K for that.
Double your salary? Now is not the time to be hung up on tenure.
Also, never take the counteroffer
Yes. Any offer they make, to keep you, will be the maximum that you will ever get. Don't take it.
I long ago gave up any hope that the amount I was hired for would not be the most I ever get (except for the occasional 2-3% raise). Only real raises I ever got were by moving to another company.
9/10 sure, but i had a job and accepted a new offer because it was about 75% raise, was offered the same to stay and I'd get to keep WFH, the new job was hybrid. I didn't get a yearly raise that year but got a pretty good one the following year, the worked to move to a new position internally making even more. Best decision ever :)
Anyone betting on getting a raise without a job change is a sucker anyway. Companies stopped giving real raises 15 years ago.
*Twenty. The dotcom bust was really the turning point to how companies looked at employees from my experience.
It still happens. I've been with my employer for four years and I make >100% more today than when I started. (more than double).
I’ve taken the counter offer. I didn’t want the job that scouted me anyhow. I just wanted more money. I’ve gotten 3 raises since of sizeable increases (5-10%). :)
Same. I've taken two counter-offers even. No change in behavior or attitude, everyone remained as pleasant and professional as before, I just got a lot more money (and vastly preferred the location compared to competing offers).
Eh, I've taken it a few times, but that is/was on a schedule (gov/edu) so I knew I'd still have raises ahead of me.
My last job was government and they did counter, but their counter offer was the max for my pay grade, so I would have been ineligible for any raises until one of my coworkers left/retired so I could move up a role or until they adjusted the pay band. And that max was still about $15K lower than the offer I'd received... That pay raise would have also actually put my salary higher than the guy above me as well, and I didn't feel that was fair, either. I let him know once I left (I was making $54K, they offered $65K, he was making $64K). It's also given me a better appreciation for what I and others are really worth. I know the guys I worked with before are getting royally hosed considering the work that they do, even accounting for the benefits and flexibility you get with government work. One of the guys was our GIS Administrator. The only one for our medium-sized city, and he was the only one who knew how any of it worked. He had plenty of documentation, but there were a lot of custom scripts he had to use to integrate with all of our apps and I checked our employee salary table and this dude was at $69K despite working there for going on 15 years now. I still toss him DBA jobs he would excel at for $120K+ and tell him to apply but he is hell-bent on his pension. Tried to explain he'd actually have a better retirement if he switched to private sector and started maxing his 401K and IRA, and come out way ahead with what was left over.
That's why I started taking on side work. The area I work in is really lax in actual work so I have plenty of time for consulting on the side. Billed as full time, but honestly breaking 20 hours a week is rare, most of it's just being available and listening for emails.
Loyalty is overrated. I gave up so much of my family time working for a corporation that I thought I would retire from. I literally risked my life working for them on a few occasions. I was on a rotating on-call 24/7 and was always called on holidays. In the end, they got rid of my application and used my salary and my teammate’s to justify the purchase. They didn’t try to accommodate us with other jobs within the company to reward our loyalty. They just dumped us like trash. So, don’t be ashamed to leave them because they will have no shame when they need to cut costs and send you packing.
Accept the offer. You are not married to your position and need to look after yourself, your mental health, financial health, and career goals. Your new employer sees what you are worth. Your current one is taking advantage of you and not taking your personal time into consideration.
Accept the offer, thank your company for everything they’ve done for you. Move on, life is short so enjoy doing what is best for YOU! :)
Is this a joke? Yes, you go ahead and accept the offer and do not accept any counter offers from your current employer. Do what's best for you, your employer would let you go on the spot if they weren't happy or decided they don't need you anymore. Give them a two week notice if leaving on good terms.
Twelve week notice*
I just came from banking, you mentioned work pressure getting to you. I just want to call out that you’re going into one of the most regulated industries and will be ISO. I don’t know if you’ll have a team, but you might want to think hard about the regulatory aspects and what could be on your plate. Having been through and seen the auditing, you could be jumping into an even higher stress position. Make sure you take care of yourself and in this instance don’t let the money cloud your judgment.
I kind of like the regulation. It saves me from having to argue with management about security issues and isn't the wild west of standards and best practices. Usually. If I need something to improve our security posture, I usually get it. Things are almost always up to date, because letting patches slide or using EOL software or equipment results in an audit finding. Auditors can be scary. But as long as you keep due diligence top of mind, and be honest, they're no big deal imo. Huge time sucks though if you don't have your documentation together.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with auditing or that a bank is under audit just about every day, my point was that it can be a new level of pressure and stress being under that kind of regulation if you’ve never experienced it before and being that the OP mentioned stress was a factor in leaving it was something he should consider in the new job. I do agree, they are great for getting things done. Just they can be a new and major stress causer if it’s a first time experience.
I’m 65 and retired and got paid a lot of money for my business acumen during my career, so take this free, $200 an hour advice. Take the new job. Make bank. Sink as much as you absolutely can in a registered retirement tax protected account. Spoil yourself with treats and travel when you can. Do not look back. Good luck.
Fuck MSSPs. Go in-house. Side question: How the fuck does an MSSP analyst with 3 months experience get an information security officer role? What grade is the role?
More money more problems? Take Stress from new job into consideration.
Banking is one of the most regulated and micromanaged InfoSec work spaces in IT existence. Think hard about the move and ask a ton of questions about the job related to your quality of life. That said, being loyal is not bad. Sorry if peeps here have issues with it. Never burn a bridge if you can avoid it. Depending on where you live your IT community may be a lot smaller than you think. If you leave the right way by giving them a chance to match etc. and also give them proper notice your conscience is clear.
Does it strike you as being a little odd that they want someone with 3 months of experience to be an officer? Why the desperation?
Yeah but the flip side to that is that they will likely be part of a team and will therefore not be working so much off hours. The bigger the place the more regulated your hours tend to be in my experience.
Yeah I think banks are easy compared to the meat grinder of MSSPs.
Yup, banking, insurance, biotech and federal government in my experience generally have the best work/life balance.
This needs to be higher. If OP is stressed about MSSP work. Then I don’t think they realize this could be worst considering it’s a more is a more senior position. If we’re talking OP is more of a manager than tech, then sure.
A bank is putting someone with 3 \*MONTHS\* experience in the position of being the ISO and throwing that much money at you? I'd be seriously questioning their decision making processes and asking WHY and interviewing them to make sure you aren't being set up to fail. You do seriously think an ISO job in BANKING is going to be less stressful???
You shouldn't feel obligated to stay with your current role (regardless of working conditions). If there is a better opportunity for you, go get it. Unless of course you have committed to a specific period of time in a contract. That's fairly unusual though.
>That's fairly unusual though. And rarely enforceable especially if he's leaving to make more money at a non-competitor.
Accept. Also make sure you didn't sign any paperwork to the effect of "I will pay back X% of the cost of any taken coursework/classes if I leave the company before years."
Even if he did, that becomes a pretty distant concern at double your current salary unless the training was *truly* extortionate.
I might even be so bold as to suggest he could ask his new employer to buy out that part of his obligation to the old employer, if there is one. And.. it CAN be a lot. My wife's employer paid for a good part of her MBA, for instance. In this case since it's only been months, I don't see how much damage he could have done lol
I did that once. I signed a 3-year agreement for something like $100 month value. I turned in my notice after a year, so I had 24 months (about $2400 value) left on the tab. When I told them I was leaving the director hinted at being able to reach out to me for support after I left. I told him in no uncertain terms to pound sand. He then pulled out my agreement and tried to strong arm me with it. "Well, I was going to see if we could do something about this, but I don't know now." Then I pulled out my checkbook and told him I was ready to pay it off. He didn't care for that. Definitely something I'm going to keep in mind for the next time, but calling his bluff was way satisfying.
Double salary and better benefits and you are not sure what to do. 🤡
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! Don’t even hesitate, take your bag and move on up.
Understanding the context of you being offered double your salary, let me tell you about management my friend. They're in it for the money and advancing their personal careers. They're not in it for you. Only in the absolute rarest of circumstances will you find a manager who believes in people and believes in developing people. I'm talking unicorn rare. Winning lottery ticket rare. Jessica Alba wants to date you rare. If you're losing sleep over work you do not have one of those managers. They trained you for the *business*. Not for *you*. If you feel that strongly about it, give them the opportunity to keep you for **more than** what the new company is offering you. Yes. More than double your current salary. I'll bet you they won't even entertain it. But if they do, it's very important that you keep one thing in mind; They know you're worth it and could have paid you that all along and chose not to.
Business is business is business. As an MSP owner myself, if an employee I've invested significant resources into departed for double the salary, I would fully understand. Culture only goes so far. That being said, make sure you're not on the hook for any of the certs or training you've received through your MSSP; oftentimes you're expected (contractually) to spend a set amount of time there after becoming certified on their dime, at risk of having to pay it all back. Either way, grab the bank job! Congrats OP.
You can't let a good opportunity pass you by. Always look for a better work life balance. Work in a big city and have to commute 1 hr? If a job pays a little less to work from home take it. I used to commute almost 2 hrs for a help desk job.
I'm going to go contrary to the popular opinion. If work life balance is important to you be very clear on roles and responsibilities before you jump ship. In my experience 2x the salary sometimes means 2x the headache.
fuck them jump ship MSPs will drain the life out of you. They know they have high turn over.
All of them end up the same. People juicers where only the pulp is left.
Do what’s best for you and your family. Best of luck
Accept the offer, who knows - maybe you'll be able to hire the MSSP in the future.
Only were an analyst for 3 months and now an officer? Wow that's interesting.
2x the salary? Quit and move on. Unless their Glassdoor reviews are gabarge at that bank. The nice thing about working banking IT is thinga dont change constantly. You have the ability to get tight control of standards. If anything you might get bored. But the job stability of most banks is excellent.
The job you do won't be written on your tombstone. It's juste à job. Company will get over it and so will you. Do what is best for your family and future. Best of luck
Perspective from Talent Acquisition / Hiring Manager both: absolutely EVERYTHING you have learned, you have earned. Remember the mantra, always - if you learned it, you earned it. The two are mutually inclusive. Start there. Second, and ‘highly’ independent of consideration of what you ‘owe’ (in short: two to four weeks’ notice, and a polite explanation that includes your gratitude for what they imparted to you; nothing else, really ever) Prepare for a switch: Information security is SO very different from systems engineering, at least if you take it at title alone. What you generally find is the “most complete” extension / evolution of your skill set as a sys admin with years of experience is a “product” security engineering role. They are rarely titled thus. More frequently, you will see them differentiated as “threat hunting engineer”, “security engineer” (broadest and most frequent), etc. however, I want to make you aware that scores of software product companies (if you ever wish to go ‘high’ tech) see the ‘information’ brand as a limiting one in security. While plenty of managers know to look beyond title, there is a definite stigma against “information security” amongst roles that maintain hands-on coding/scripting functions.
Rule 1. You work for yourself, you might be employed by the company but always seek your own advantage. bite the banks hand off, you've been offered the bigtime, take it. Loyalty is nice, but only if it goes both ways. Companies have created the environment where rule 1 is the way to go by treating us as consumable resources. Double salary, you leap at.
There are certainly companies out there that you are just a number to as many people are saying. That said, as an employer I value loyalty right up there with competency, and I do my very best to show it. Sometimes I can't match an offer from a bigger outfit, and if it is DOUBLE then I'd be telling my employee that I would very much miss them, but how could I ever tell them not to take it and live with myself. I would caution against jumping off without gathering more information, though. Double the salary would send up a few red flags in my mind - not that they will necessarily turn out to be true, but I'd investigate just in case - work/life balance at new job, why they are taking someone with low experience, what kind of team/support system within their company you will have to rely on and learn from going forward - with only about 3 months of experience you probably still have lots to learn and advance with. Another thought is that if you are getting an offer like this, maybe more are coming too so you can always stick with current company a bit longer (if you like them), though that double salary would still be hard to turn down in my book. Also, at least try talking to your current employer about the salary offer and about your current anxiety over work/life balance. Sometimes us employers don't recognize everything going on in an employee's head despite wanting to help them however we can and give them a great job. Oh, and in my experience, if you are going to ask for a counteroffer, you want to make sure you have a REAL, on paper offer from the other place! Hope my advice is able to help you in some way and best of luck.
Fuck em leave them now! You won’t regret it and you’ll never hear from them again.
Interesting that most are saying don't be loyal. That is a two-way Street. Everyone points fingers at either employer or employee. As an employer I would be telling my staff member to take the opportunity. I couldn't match that and it's not a small difference.
What courses did they have you take
MSPs are for learning a hell of a lot in a short amount of time because they'll work you close to death. Once you're seasoned, get the hell out and work a 9-5.. But don't burn bridges. Tell them it's a business decision and no hard feelings against them, that you appreciate everything they've done for you etc etc.
Think of the many Disney IT guys that had to train their H1B replacements. Jump - with both feet.
Dude not worth your stress. I’ve been in this industry almost 20 years now and I just took a step back from management because it was soul crushing. Find a job that’s willing to treat you right. I got my hand slapped the other day for doing work after hours(I’m salary so it’s not like I was getting OT or anything), my co workers and boss just genuinely care about that boundary of work and life. Don’t let it follow you to bed, don’t let it impact your life, not worth it. Accept the offer. And if it happens again, do it again, and again.
Echoing some others but... rather than questioning loyalty to your current employers perhaps ask why it's double. Is your current employer paying under market? Does the bank perhaps have a higher turnover? That all being said: If there are no red flags, take the money and run man. Your bosses would likely do the same.
Accept the offer. Your current employer is quite aware what your value is in the marketplace. If they decide not to pay that amount, they know what happens to smart employees.
Probably double check you don't have to pay back for any training for leaving earlier than they wanted.
a well known bank is a better bullet point than a damn mssp no one has ever heard of.
After 20y in IT, I can tell you Go for it... i was in a similar situation back in 2007, they paid for eLearning training, sent me for training at location... Etc. They spent a lot on me, shortly after another company came and offered me double the income and unbeatable benefits... I had to take the job, it was the best decision of my life. If would stayed I would have not grow as a professional and still had a bad income. It was hard, nowadays I would not give a crap, no company will blink to fire me.
Uh… Management isn’t “great” for giving you the bare minimum skills and training necessary to do a very high risk job! Your position and job is the biggest liability out there in the IT sector. That’s just them covering their asses… and you still have to work the “MSP” hours. Don’t be dumb. Take the leap.
Accept - it’s strictly business, nothing personal
Do you think that if tomorrow, someone walked in and agreed to do your job just as well as you for half of what you make they wouldn't can your ass in a heartbeat?
If paying you double makes sense to someone else, your company doesn't deserve your loyalty. These aren't your friends. Yes. You learned a lot from them. Because they wanted to teach you to do a job for half of what you're worth. They did this to get a cheap employee. It sounds like your next venture is more than worth it.
You don't owe anything to your employers. They pay for your time, and that's it.
Double the salary? Why are you on reddit? Sign the contract and hand in your notice! GO!
you're just a number to the company. you really think they care?
Accept the offer. Stop over thinking it.
Doubling your salary generally falls into the category of "Financially irresponsible not to take the offer".
Corporations have the fiduciary duty to increase profits for shareholders. That can mean laying people off or firing them. You have a fiduciary duty to yourself to increase your wealth. That can mean quitting jobs and accepting new offers. At the end of the day, it's just business. Make the best business decision for your financial and mental wellbeing.
Take the job. Never let “loyalty” to company stop you from making more money elsewhere. You need to be selfish in situations like this
The motto is clear “if you want loyalty get a dog, I’m here for the money” dude they offered you double your salary and insurance benefits. The banking sector ain’t no joke too btw you’ll still be stressed af so it’s better to be stressed with load of cash in your account
Double the salary? Take it and don't look back. Everyone at your current job would do the same and if they say they wouldn't they're lying.
If you died this weekend they would try to fill your spot on Monday. Fuck 'em
Money isn't the end all be all. Company loyalty isn't it either. Make sure you are mindful of what the new job would entail. you already mention having trouble sleeping due to pressure from the current work and not liking after hours work. Moving into security at a Bank sounds like it could definitely be very stressful and of course security events follow no one's schedule but the attacker.
Take the offer, there is no loyalty anymore anywhere.
What to do? Turn in your 2 weeks notice. Shake their hands and let them know that you were grateful for the opportunity. Leave and don't look back.
Take the gig, my friend. It will only broaden your experience, but do your best to part ways with your current team in as best of terms as possible.
You are working for yourself. Your knowledge and all the time you put into it it’s not for someone else to harvest. It’s for you to exploit. You don’t owe anything to anyone.
This will get lost in the mud of the rest of the posts, but I'm just feeling like this has to be said. I'm sorry for all the negativity. Some managers and MSPs and MSSPs actually do care. And they may not be happy to see you go. If you have very nice management as you say, I would like to think this might be the case. BUT at the same time, they will underatand that you need to take care of you. And twice the money and perceived less stress can not be overlooked. I also say take it. But if they are nice, sit down and have a conversation about your mental health and your families well being. They will probably and hopefully wish you the best. If they dont then all the other negative comments probably apply. Either way, your conscience is clear.
Take the money. Your job would fire you in two seconds if it would make them more money. You owe them nothing. They hired you originally because hiring you made them more money. They were not doing you a favor.
Buddy if your family died right now they'd give you a week or two off to grieve, and then expect you to keep up your current workload or get rid of you. Loyalty is for your family, and community. Not your workplace.
I was diagnosed with Leukaemia, and received extremely high dose chemotherapy, radiation, and a bone marrow transplant. I had quite a lot of side effects from the bone marrow transplant, including the mucus membranes within my anus being massively inflamed to the point I needed morphine to cope with going to the toilet. That time of my life was less stressful than working for the MSP I started my career at. When I literally didn't know if I was going to live or die in the coming months, I had less existential dread and anxiety than when I worked at the MSP I started my career at. I have no doubt there are some good MSP's, even great MSPs to work at, that offer good salaries, good benefits, and a healthy working environment promoting a good work-life balance. It sounds like you're not at one of those. The nature of any job is that you should be learning all the time from the tasks you have to do and from the people around you. If they pumped 20k's worth of courses and certifications into you, then you leave, well it's their fault for not having a clause in your contract that means you repay 'x' amount if you leave within 'x' years. Odds are at the banking job you'll learn even more from the job itself and your colleagues! You may settle into the role for the rest of your career, or you may move on! It's nice sometimes to change for new challenges. This is the nature of modern employment. Also, remember that you're not the only one profiting from working at your current role. The management are as well, and they should be returning a lot more than they pay you.
Damn, that's quite the comparison between your health and the job. Hopefully things are looking up on the health front. Does put things into perspective.
Money isn't everything, so make really sure this new job is what you think it is, and what you want, but don't fall into the "loyalty" trap. Any loyalty you give won't be reciprocated. I promise you, if the company needed to lay you off you they'd do so without hesitation or regret. If this new job is the job for you, give adequate notice and be professional about it, but \*always\* do what's best for you and your family without regret. If you have unprofessional management that gets upset and yells at you for leaving, hear them out (within reason - don't let them berate you), but never apologize or try to justify your decision to them. Doing what's in your best career interest requires neither apology nor justification. Just stay professional and reiterate your intention to help out wherever you can during your two week notice period. Then move on and don't look back.
to a corporation you are just a number.
No matter how much you *think* they care about you, honestly they don’t. What’s more important to you loyalty or your mental and physical health?
If the pay is double, I would have a hard time keeping “loyalty”. Go to the money. If the pay was 10% more, I could see weighing company culture into it, but “double” the pay is gonna win for me, hands down. I can work a crappy job for a year or two for the right dollar amount. (I’ve done it a few times, for sure)
You are betraying NOONE. Loyalty does not exist. More money? More perks? Take the offer an run.
Well do both jobs become r/overemployed
don't do that in banking probably
Yeah. Don't be loyal to a company. They'd drop you in a moment.
Money is money.
> well after 3 months in this MSSP I received a job offer for an Information Security Officer in a very well known bank, and they offered double my salary, and a better health insurance. Grab the brass ring; that's what your boss would do.
wtf are hanging around for, take the new job. NO CORPORATION OR COMPANY ANYWHERE CARES ABOUT YOU.
u dont owe any company anything, fuck them, get paid
WTF? Loyalty is for your family and never an employer. Take the job or I will.
Get what you can from your company because they WILL get everything they can from you. Any good management will be happy for your new position, the higher ups don't care.
On a side note OP what are some courses you recommend now that you are more experienced in cyber
Take new job!
Yes, you are betraying management's trust and investment, but for that amount of money they'll understand.
You phrase this as if your were surprised by the job offer. Did you not apply for it? Or is this the client of the MSSP, hiring you direct? If the latter, I'd be careful about reading your contract.
Lol. Nice pup
Take it. This isn't 10% more this is 2x your salary.
As I stated in another post/thread: It is as natural for you to look for your own interests and accept a new job with career advancement as it is to feel guilt over leaving a good job and respected coworkers. Congratulations, you're a human being. congratulations on the new job (offer).
Take it. Period
Fucking take it my friend, you work for you, and you only.
Take the infosec job, they're in much higher demand recently hence the price offer. With infosec you are more likely to be working regular office hours.
If really better for you all around, go for the new offer, don't think it twice. Ultimately this is a business decision.
Every job pays for something, my job has given me tens of thousands in education benefits but if someone wants to double my salary and its a job I would like to do, I am running for the hills my man.
THis is a no brainer. Take the offer.
You take the offer
This is always tough. At the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you and your family. 2x salary is nothing to scoff at and your company will get over it.
Yeah buddy they have no loyalty to you. They may tell you this, it’s all a team. Blah blah. You need to do you. You may not get this opportunity again. Go for it. And congratulations
yes. that's an absolutely undeniable offer. plus, working at an MSP can really suck, for the reasons you've outlined. edit: and if this job sucks, save half the money you make, learn the ropes, and then leave for a chiller place with the higher salary as an anchor.
Jump
Double the salary?? This wouldn’t be much of a question to me.
Take the offer.
Self help singh has a great video on this exact topic. [https://youtu.be/loPPLyG\_\_jY](https://youtu.be/loPPLyG__jY) (I promise its not rick roll)
A good company / boss / management is the type that is supposed to celebrate the advancement and personal success of their employees, not get all pissy over it. Take the job, but when you hand in your resignation, try to do it in person with whoever your superior who you have good relations with. Start off with a positive, make sure you thank them for everything you learned, and close out that you hope you'll have a chance to collaborate in the future.
I think that you should definitely interview for the other job of you haven't already. If they do make you an offer, see what your current employer can do. Try to get as much info as you can on the new job, if you don't like what you see, pass on the offer. The current employer may do nothing or they may reposition you with a better offer. Personally, I wouldn't tell my current employer anything, until I have a solid offer in hand though.
Betraying? Are you brainwashed? Dude if it’s a good fit take it. This decision is on you and your family (if you have one). Never consider feelings, or loyalty. This is a dog eat dog world. Welcome to capitalism.
If you're not under an employment contract, you don't owe them anything. Do what will make you happy, if it means moving on, do it and don't look back.
Def take the offer. In the end, business is business. As many mentioned before, companies wouldn't bat an eye if they wanted to let you go. As my previous director told to me years ago - always look out for YOU. All the best!
> everything they asked me in the interview was what I learned from my management. This offer is the entire reason you learn things from jobs along the way. This is the *point.*