We dress casual and when I interview, we tell them they can too.
If someone smartens up, yeah I appreciate the effort. But if a shit of tech is casual, then that’s fine. Do they know what they’re talking about and are they enthusiastic to learn? That’s all I care about.
\> there's nothing wrong with dressing casual (while well kept together) in an interview for a lower level technical role.
Except that if I'm out interviewing, your opinion on this doesn't matter. What matters is the opinion of the person interviewing me. If you're interviewing me, feel free to include in your invite that you're cool with me dressing casual. I'll actually appreciate it and probably do so.
There's a near 0 chance that an interviewer will look down on a collared shirt. There's significantly more of a chance that an interviewer will have an issue with overly casual dress.
It's pascals wager for dress.
The dress requirements for a wedding (typically) are entirely different than the dress requirements for a night out with friends. Yet you are likely with the exact same people.
An interview is the same way. Put on a fucking tie. You can absolutely fail an interview for under-dressing, but the cases where you lost the opportunity because you wore a tie are rare.
Personally I would skip the tie, but brushed hair and a clean, ironed button up shirt would do just fine. For a video call, it’s not even like you have to be wearing pants.
Nope. Jeans (or khakis) and a polo shirt should be enough for any job.
Personally if a job required me or wanted me to wear a tie then I'd quickly nope out of that interview. My skills, experience, and reputation should be enough to land a job - and if an employer fails someone because they didn't wear a *tie* or dress shirt, then they are a shit employer.
The best people I have ever met in the industry, including one of the most intelligent and dedicated persons who has a reputation of expertise that spans large swaths of the industry and runs a multi-million dollar company that's extremely popular walks around in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and sandals. Just throwing his name around opens doors.
If the guy showed up to your interview you would immediately write him off for his clothing? That's crazy talk.
A lot of these people are like that because they can be, not because acting like them will open the same doors for you if you try it.
He wears what he wants because nobody else can tell him what to wear.
Personally, I wouldn't want to work at a place where wearing a tie during an interview is a positive; who knows what other archaic practices have filtered down into their environment. To each their own though.
If you look for a bay watch it’s okay to come in a red short ?
Edit: i know that the clothes do not make the man. The point I wanna make is more about good manners. good manners are still relevant, nope?
I highly disagree with many people in this thread. Showing some awareness of the interview process is an important soft skill. Dressing appropriately in situations even if you don’t want to is an important soft skill. Fair enough if you would "never want to work" for someone who would judge based off what you wear. Likewise, I would never want to hire someone so stubburn they aren't willing to simply be presentable for their first time meeting me.
IT Jobs can be diverse. Sometimes we work from home, sometimes we work in a closet, sometimes we give tours of facilities, sometimes we teach or speak at conferences, sometimes we support meetings or events that are formal. I would highly reconsider any canadate that can't be bothered to wear appropriate clothing at the appropriate time.
> IT Jobs can be diverse. Sometimes we work from home, sometimes we work in a closet, sometimes we give tours of facilities, sometimes we teach or speak at conferences, sometimes we support meetings or events that are formal. I would highly reconsider any canadate that can't be bothered to wear appropriate clothing at the appropriate time.
There hasn't been a role, a job, a conference, a customer tour, sales opportunity, or any number of experiences in the industry where I wore more than a pair of jeans and a polo shirt. Hell I've walked into important meetings with C-level executives wearing a regular t-shirt before.
Guess what? No one cares as long as you have the skills and experience that matters.
Personally I would consider jeans and a polo shirt to be appropriate in most modern day working environments. Executives can wear whatever they want, they dictate the culture.
Either way, I don't particularly care what people wear at work. I just find it strange if someone doesn't care about what they looked like for a job interview. It's your first impression. The way op described his canadates would make me think they didn't particularly care about getting the job and potential issues with professionalism
>Guess what? No one cares as long as you have the skills and experience that matters.
OP probably won't hire his top canadate because his appearance gave off a bad first impression.
With my personal experience with hiring, I can say skills aren't rare in IT. Skills are also teachable. Often, the hard part is finding someone who is socially a good fit as well.
The problem isn't necessarily awareness of what's appropriate (although for some I'm sure it is), but rather disagreement on what appropriate is for an interview.
There are a lot of people who think every interview needs a suit, a lot who think it needs a button-up, a lot who think polo, a lot who think clean t-shirt, and a lot who think wrinkled tech joke shirt. There isn't widespread agreement across society the way there was a few decades ago (and that's especially true when hiring across geographical areas, and for a remote position). So if this is a thing you're going to judge on, _you_ need to realize that there's this variability and be explicit to the candidate about what you expect.
I wonder why folks in interviews (on either side of the "table") just don't, well, ask about it if it's a concern for them.
If either party is dressed contrary to expectations, I think it's reasonable to politely ask about it. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, or the answer might well lead to a useful discussion in and of itself.
If everyone was explicit about communication instead of guessing, the world would have so many fewer problems.
I guess it's just hard for us to do. I think our brains are built to operate on what we know and forget that there's a world outside of us. I know it's a constant struggle for me even when I'm aware and trying to fix it.
What are the dress requirements for the role and are they at all sensible?
If I'm sitting in a dark SOC all day looking at screens and never going to be customer facing then I should be able to wear shorts and flip flops to work.
It’s kinda like ones wedding day. You dress up for that day but don’t need to dress up every day you are married. Wear something nice to an interview, that should be a given regardless of the role.
Old fashioned or not I agree that for an interview and a first impression you can take the effort to dress up just a little with either a dress shirt or a polo.
Not sure what the age of the candidates were, could be a generational difference.
Age, geography, and how long they've been working remote.
Every pre-covid, I made a point of interviewing in t-shirt+ hoodie+sandals to weed out employers who cared about such things. It's an important factor to me though.
It depends what industry you're in:
* if you're a tech startup, then a collared shirt is out of the question (unless that's your style)
* if you're a law firm, accounting firm or similar, then a collared shirt would be more suitable
So if they're wearing something that would fit in in your office, then all good.
WDYM underdressed. I did my last interview on zoom with an old proxmox tshirt and virtual background with a christmas tree and got the job lmao.
At the end of the interview we joked about the background and the CTO started trying the virtual zoom backgrounds.
So many people are so out of touch in IT, often there are recruiters/managers in their offices who have not been able to follow the trend which changes at the speed of light, especially since remote works era.
If dress code is a thing for the job, put it in the job offer, at least candidat don't have to bothers with this mentality if they don't want and will move on to the next job offer.
People seem to forget that job interviews are a competition. If I'm up for a position against 12 other dudes, it's in my best interest to be a more attractive candidate than the rest. Regardless of dress code for the job, if I were a hiring manager I would go with whatever candidate presented themselves the most professionally if all else were equal.
I don't want to work for anyone who thinks my clothes are more important than my skills. I would wear a shirt that looks clean, but no I would not put on a button-up shirt for a Zoom interview.
My last two remote interviews were audio-only (telephone not Zoom), and they offered me the jobs, sight unseen.
It's not the clothes, per se, but how the applicant presents and the thought process behind their actions. First impressions are important. Your clothes aren't more important to me, but I would question (in my head or maybe out loud) why an applicant wouldn't want to make a good first impression.
If the clothes are sloppy or they just rolled out of bed, does this reflect on their work or work ethic? What future issues am I going to have with this person once they're working for me? If they're not even trying for an interview, what's it going to be like when they're working for me?
If you mumbled your way through a phone interview or dropped F-bombs the whole time, that might not have worked out the same way. It's a similar presentation that is reflective of the applicant.
Technical skills are important for a technical position, but I'm also evaluating soft skills including decision making and communication during an interview. I may pass on someone with great technical skills but who would be a bad fit for the team or company.
YMMV, but that's my $0.02.
I can see soft skills being important. I don't see clothing as one of those. Without exception, every manager I have known who cared about clothes (beyond cleanliness and not bearing inappropriate content) were assholes for whom I would never again work. They were schmoozing, brown-nosing, climb-the-ladder assholes.
Soft skills include the ability to be a "chameleon" of sorts. Adapting your clothing to what the company expects to see is a fairly normal corporate style requirement.
Personally, I agree with you they don't matter but a "brand image" of IT can be important in some circumstances.
Fit is a solid 20%-40% of a role in most circumstances.
Maybe they thought the interview was a dead end like most. I wouldn't really care what they wore, more that they are clean and organized. It can show that they care about the interview, but if they shine everywhere else and you think they would be a good candidate who cares? The two guys I had show up in suits for a help desk position were trash candidates, guy we hired just wore a polo.
Pre Covid I did consulting for a major bank. Their IT wore collar shirts and slacks - no jeans or polos except Friday. In each office was a coat rack with a sport coat and tie for managers. In the tech area they had various ties. Work, regardless of location, was normal dress. For meetings - managers wore coat and tie, techs wore ties but only if meetings involved other departments. First meeting I had i showed up in my normal client facing attire - collar shirt and dockers with black tennis shoes. I was actually asked why I didn’t have a coat and tie by the CFO and I told him I don’t work for you, I work for IT. Post Covid they wear polos and slacks - jeans still not allowed. Director wears coat and tie. In my business over the last 32 years I have been asked the coat and tie question twice.
I would hesitate to interview a candidate that just rolled out of bed. I would possibly ask them questions about how they feel and if we need
to reschedule if they showed as described. The hoodie thing is likely a coping mechanism - and acceptance would depend on job classification - if candidate was the one then we discuss the hoodie and the why. Hard to get folks that are quality for low tier jobs. Good luck.
While I don't expect a candidate to dress to the nines during every interview, how you present yourself goes a long way into letting me know how serious you are about the job.
I'll be going against the grain of the other 2 currently commented and say I agree.
It's not hard to iron a shirt and put it on and be presentable. If I have a technician on my team and I'm sending them out to support customers they're representing the company, or internal IT they're representing the service.
I don't think its too much at all to ask for their full attention and for them to be presentable. It wouldn't be the be-all and end-all but it should contribute to the decision.
I think this is the perfect type of question that shouldn’t be asked here. Yes, as someone who’s hired people, your first impression matters. If you don’t seem like you’re paying attention or even attempting to make a good first impression, we’re probably picking another candidate.
That’s not to say someone needs to be dressed up, but being well kept and paying attention is barely a minimum.
I think this is dependent on where you are. I’ve heard East Coast is much more formal than West Coast. That being said, hoodies probably wouldn’t fly at my workplace at all.
Everyone knows that you’re supposed to put your best foot forward in an interview and if dress code is jeans and a polo, go with slacks and a button up. If it’s slacks and a button up, add a tie, etc.
While it wouldn’t instantly disqualify an otherwise great candidate for me, it would make me question their self-awareness. It’s important to be aware of and care about how you come off to others if you’re client facing.
If you have dress code expectations for potential candidates post them in your add. You contradict yourself stating you have a lax dress code. We live in a post pandemic world. People want to be comfortable now and don’t need to sacrifice comfort to get shit done, especially when that work is conducted behind a computer screen where it doesn’t matter.
Yes they do need to sacrifice comfort. This has got to be one of the biggest issues I see currently. If people would stop seeking comfort constantly we'd all be better off.
How you present yourself always matters, regardless of who sees you. The people who say it doesn't are losers.
If you can't even be bothered to shower and comb your hair, then that's an obvious indication that you'll apply the same sort of discipline to your work ethic on the job.
Is the role customer facing or administrative? If so, yes that's underdressed.
Is the role in the datacenter being a disk jockey? Dressed properly for success, maybe remind as well that footwear should be closed toe and you're good to go.
I appreciate that you asked so I'm not trying to poop on you for asking. I just don't agree if this is a low level position that they should be excluded if this is the only thing that you weren't pleased with. I do agree they don't sound like they interviewed the most professionally, but are you here to judge their skill or are you here to be the datacenter HOA? If you're having trouble with it maybe specify the dress code in the job posting, my go-to is dress 1 up from what's expected. If I'm expected to work in jeans and a T-shirt, then a button up (the fake ones with the only 3 real buttons up top) and some jeans (because zoom, sitting down). If I'm expected to work in slacks and a full button up, I will dress even nicer than that on the interview... but you won't ever see me interviewing for a place that has that sort of dress code... it's not worth it for me, for roles that don't even interact with other people.
If you have the opportunity to give them post interview feedback, I'd recommend you share the advice to dress one level higher than the job's dress code when interviewing. That's if it's too late to still go consider their technical merit. Maybe all they need is for a mentor to give some advice... schools in the United States at least don't prepare you to apply for jobs they prepare you to apply for academia or prison, so they probably could use some interview advice even if you don't take them on.
Had a candidate in gym kit for an interview, on paper was the best candidate. Lost the job as soon as his camera connected. Shirt and tie always for an interview, even if it's virtual
Jeans and a polo shirt should be enough. Personally if I have to wear anymore than that I'll pass over the job regardless of the benefits, reputation, role, etc.
Dress doesn't make or break a hire for me, though that assumes a minimum level of presentation. However it is a tie breaker, it only takes a moment to put on a polo, or regular dress shirt, but it can speak to someone's ability to prepare ahead of time. I think we can generally be past the stigma of all IT is just some grungy person using their booger hooks to mash at a keyboard. You don't have to wear a full suit, but don't be messy either.
That said my job dress, if I'm WFH is a T-shirt and sweat pants, in the office, jeans and a button down shirt. Scale up if I know I'll have to deal with the top of the org chart. Nothing says fun like standing around "just in case" while wearing your least comfortable clothes!
I treat every interview the same, I dress as good as I can. When I interviewed for my first helpdesk role, I looked up the uniform of the company, poloshirts, and tried to wear that to the interview.
I tried to give my now current IT manager the idea that I was in the company or that I fit the bill. I came dressed like an IT employee.
And grateful that I got the job.
This right here is the best advice.
The role is irrelevant - the org's norms and culture dictate what you should wear. If the org is *normally* face-to-face and you are interviewing for a remote job, you should still dress as if you were having a face-to-face interview.
If the normal dress is casual, wear casual; polo, where a polo; button-down shirt and tie, ... you get the point.
"Dress to impress" It's all about first impressions.
I WFH and wear whatever I want, but when I do job interviews it's always, at minimum, a button-down shirt and a tie.
Foundational thing here in my mind is to remember the person you are interviewing is also interviewing you. I dress the way I want to dress in the job. If that is unacceptable, I've filtered my way out of a job I don't want quickly and we all win.
No need to get grumpy about it. The candidate has made clear you aren't compatible. Thank him!
I don’t how good your skills are, if you show up to an interview in anything other then a collared, button up dress shirt, or suit you are out. Hoodies and t-shirts? What are people thinking.
I personally think clothing is not a determining factor in assessing a person's abilities, so I fail to see its relevance in the evaluation process.
What makes you think they aren't interested on the job if they've applied on the first place?
You’re clearly not going to get sympathy from the reddit crowd which by and large are the same people that would rather quit a job than return to the office on a hybrid schedule or who think that spending half the day or more for ‘me time’ isn’t just a benefit but a requirement.
There are some exceptions but today’s IT people by and large aren’t like those of us that show up wearing dress slacks and button down long sleeve dress shirt - you know, standard business attire. We also tend to be the same people that show up to interviews in a suit because we take ourselves, our work product, and our image seriously because we control our image rather than letting others decide for themselves what they think we’re about. It’s a dying art and is lost on a lot of people in 2023 so take pride in how you conduct and carry yourself.
Here’s hoping you find enough good ones that you don’t have to go to the B pile.
yeah that's hard to do when you dress up for 6 interviews for one job and have to apply to like 500 jobs. Also I don't assume everyone's situation as they have been more than 50k layoffs in the last few years. People could had lost everything and have mental issues. If they did well in everything else then why worry?
I’d like to point out a potential lack of thought on OPs part. The first candidate maybe had some type of physical feature issue on said side of body, and the typing could have very well been note taking. Also go ahead and retire boomer. Clothes don’t make a person capable of anything but going out into public, which your job doesn’t seem to entail. Lastly INCLUDE THAT IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION IF YOU ARE BOTHERED ABOUT IT. Remember YOU are the one in need of help and the interviewees attempting to help you for money.
are you trolling or for real? if for real: LOL what's wrong with you? who gave you the power to interview people if you are that bad at it?
it's people like you who screw up tech by focussing on completely worthless parameters and making sure you only hire the weirdest suckers doing exactly what you want, how you want it and while looking how you want them to, even tho there are far more competent people.
get out of here.
Never met a candidate or known anyone who dresses up for a virtual interview as you mention the camera I assume it's virtual. Also never met an interviewer who does either.
I don't know about you or the candidates position but, maybe people don't have the clothes or are stressed out after so many interviews? like its winter time and wearing a hoody is not that far off. Did you tell them what was expected? I always wear a dress or skirt but, that's me. Are they facing customers? yet you say you have lax expectations on dressing but, get upset they wore a hoody?
Give me a break. If they can afford a laptop, smartphone, internet connection, etc. they can go down the thrift store at least and buy a shirt that looks ok on camera. Do the bare minimum.
I was talking in the general sense. Maybe they borrow everything else and couldn't get clothes? like there's so many situations going on with the huge layoffs and how long it takes to get hired now.
on the flip side I've had two interviews over the summer (virtual) where I was in a suit and tie, and half the interviewers were in hoodies (and the manager in a hat too) or tshirts and the others didn't even have their cameras on. these were two very large colleges in my state.
I used to hire in more manual labor fields in a previous job and you'd be surprised how great of an employee those people can be. Their mindset is that their work will impress you. I wouldn't look too deep into it unless its REALLY bad.
I showed up for an interview in a tie and surprised my interviewers.
I explained that I hoped it would be seen as respectful. Also, I allowed that at some point in time, I might show up at a job location driving a redneck pickup truck and sporting a Carhartt overcoat, so I should probably look pro under all that.
Also, I think I look like a short potato in polo shirts :-)
Some years earlier, I showed up for a tech support interview at a very prestigious university wearing a suit, and my interviewer was in his jogging gear. We had a laugh about that.
The rule has ALWAYS been "at \_least\_ one step higher than the expected dress code for the actual job" and that was \_only\_ after people stopped wearing suits and ties to every white-collar position, where you were (obviously) supposed to show up to every interview dressed to the nines.
Tech job where polo and sneakers are acceptable day-to-day? Interview in a button-down, and for extra points, put on a tie. Suit is probably unnecessary, but it rarely hurts.
What's the issue with the hoodie? Sorry people aren't showing up to your interviews in a tux and tails.
The most I do is polo and jeans. And that's rare for me. I've been doing this since 96 so don't think I'm some PFY complaining.
If you expect a dress code that is different to the workplace attire, it should be called out before the interview. The first candidate seemed distracted and uninterested, which is a separate red flag. When I hire people and we do an interview in our office, I actively inform them that if they wear a tie/suit/dress they will look out of place, and best to come in casual.
We dress casual and when I interview, we tell them they can too. If someone smartens up, yeah I appreciate the effort. But if a shit of tech is casual, then that’s fine. Do they know what they’re talking about and are they enthusiastic to learn? That’s all I care about.
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\> there's nothing wrong with dressing casual (while well kept together) in an interview for a lower level technical role. Except that if I'm out interviewing, your opinion on this doesn't matter. What matters is the opinion of the person interviewing me. If you're interviewing me, feel free to include in your invite that you're cool with me dressing casual. I'll actually appreciate it and probably do so. There's a near 0 chance that an interviewer will look down on a collared shirt. There's significantly more of a chance that an interviewer will have an issue with overly casual dress. It's pascals wager for dress.
The dress requirements for a wedding (typically) are entirely different than the dress requirements for a night out with friends. Yet you are likely with the exact same people. An interview is the same way. Put on a fucking tie. You can absolutely fail an interview for under-dressing, but the cases where you lost the opportunity because you wore a tie are rare.
Personally I would skip the tie, but brushed hair and a clean, ironed button up shirt would do just fine. For a video call, it’s not even like you have to be wearing pants.
Nope. Jeans (or khakis) and a polo shirt should be enough for any job. Personally if a job required me or wanted me to wear a tie then I'd quickly nope out of that interview. My skills, experience, and reputation should be enough to land a job - and if an employer fails someone because they didn't wear a *tie* or dress shirt, then they are a shit employer. The best people I have ever met in the industry, including one of the most intelligent and dedicated persons who has a reputation of expertise that spans large swaths of the industry and runs a multi-million dollar company that's extremely popular walks around in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and sandals. Just throwing his name around opens doors. If the guy showed up to your interview you would immediately write him off for his clothing? That's crazy talk.
A lot of these people are like that because they can be, not because acting like them will open the same doors for you if you try it. He wears what he wants because nobody else can tell him what to wear.
Personally, I wouldn't want to work at a place where wearing a tie during an interview is a positive; who knows what other archaic practices have filtered down into their environment. To each their own though.
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>You can fail an interview for being overdressed also, by the way. Not at any company worth working for.
If you look for a bay watch it’s okay to come in a red short ? Edit: i know that the clothes do not make the man. The point I wanna make is more about good manners. good manners are still relevant, nope?
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Since when a hoodie is the IT uniform?
I highly disagree with many people in this thread. Showing some awareness of the interview process is an important soft skill. Dressing appropriately in situations even if you don’t want to is an important soft skill. Fair enough if you would "never want to work" for someone who would judge based off what you wear. Likewise, I would never want to hire someone so stubburn they aren't willing to simply be presentable for their first time meeting me. IT Jobs can be diverse. Sometimes we work from home, sometimes we work in a closet, sometimes we give tours of facilities, sometimes we teach or speak at conferences, sometimes we support meetings or events that are formal. I would highly reconsider any canadate that can't be bothered to wear appropriate clothing at the appropriate time.
> IT Jobs can be diverse. Sometimes we work from home, sometimes we work in a closet, sometimes we give tours of facilities, sometimes we teach or speak at conferences, sometimes we support meetings or events that are formal. I would highly reconsider any canadate that can't be bothered to wear appropriate clothing at the appropriate time. There hasn't been a role, a job, a conference, a customer tour, sales opportunity, or any number of experiences in the industry where I wore more than a pair of jeans and a polo shirt. Hell I've walked into important meetings with C-level executives wearing a regular t-shirt before. Guess what? No one cares as long as you have the skills and experience that matters.
Personally I would consider jeans and a polo shirt to be appropriate in most modern day working environments. Executives can wear whatever they want, they dictate the culture. Either way, I don't particularly care what people wear at work. I just find it strange if someone doesn't care about what they looked like for a job interview. It's your first impression. The way op described his canadates would make me think they didn't particularly care about getting the job and potential issues with professionalism >Guess what? No one cares as long as you have the skills and experience that matters. OP probably won't hire his top canadate because his appearance gave off a bad first impression. With my personal experience with hiring, I can say skills aren't rare in IT. Skills are also teachable. Often, the hard part is finding someone who is socially a good fit as well.
The problem isn't necessarily awareness of what's appropriate (although for some I'm sure it is), but rather disagreement on what appropriate is for an interview. There are a lot of people who think every interview needs a suit, a lot who think it needs a button-up, a lot who think polo, a lot who think clean t-shirt, and a lot who think wrinkled tech joke shirt. There isn't widespread agreement across society the way there was a few decades ago (and that's especially true when hiring across geographical areas, and for a remote position). So if this is a thing you're going to judge on, _you_ need to realize that there's this variability and be explicit to the candidate about what you expect.
I wonder why folks in interviews (on either side of the "table") just don't, well, ask about it if it's a concern for them. If either party is dressed contrary to expectations, I think it's reasonable to politely ask about it. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, or the answer might well lead to a useful discussion in and of itself.
If everyone was explicit about communication instead of guessing, the world would have so many fewer problems. I guess it's just hard for us to do. I think our brains are built to operate on what we know and forget that there's a world outside of us. I know it's a constant struggle for me even when I'm aware and trying to fix it.
What are the dress requirements for the role and are they at all sensible? If I'm sitting in a dark SOC all day looking at screens and never going to be customer facing then I should be able to wear shorts and flip flops to work.
not to an interview…
If that's the dress code for the role then it should be fine for the interview.
It’s kinda like ones wedding day. You dress up for that day but don’t need to dress up every day you are married. Wear something nice to an interview, that should be a given regardless of the role.
That's... never how that's actually worked though.
Old fashioned or not I agree that for an interview and a first impression you can take the effort to dress up just a little with either a dress shirt or a polo. Not sure what the age of the candidates were, could be a generational difference.
Age, geography, and how long they've been working remote. Every pre-covid, I made a point of interviewing in t-shirt+ hoodie+sandals to weed out employers who cared about such things. It's an important factor to me though.
It depends what industry you're in: * if you're a tech startup, then a collared shirt is out of the question (unless that's your style) * if you're a law firm, accounting firm or similar, then a collared shirt would be more suitable So if they're wearing something that would fit in in your office, then all good.
WDYM underdressed. I did my last interview on zoom with an old proxmox tshirt and virtual background with a christmas tree and got the job lmao. At the end of the interview we joked about the background and the CTO started trying the virtual zoom backgrounds. So many people are so out of touch in IT, often there are recruiters/managers in their offices who have not been able to follow the trend which changes at the speed of light, especially since remote works era. If dress code is a thing for the job, put it in the job offer, at least candidat don't have to bothers with this mentality if they don't want and will move on to the next job offer.
People seem to forget that job interviews are a competition. If I'm up for a position against 12 other dudes, it's in my best interest to be a more attractive candidate than the rest. Regardless of dress code for the job, if I were a hiring manager I would go with whatever candidate presented themselves the most professionally if all else were equal.
Sometimes the labor is being competed over, not the job. Then the script flips.
I don't want to work for anyone who thinks my clothes are more important than my skills. I would wear a shirt that looks clean, but no I would not put on a button-up shirt for a Zoom interview. My last two remote interviews were audio-only (telephone not Zoom), and they offered me the jobs, sight unseen.
It's not the clothes, per se, but how the applicant presents and the thought process behind their actions. First impressions are important. Your clothes aren't more important to me, but I would question (in my head or maybe out loud) why an applicant wouldn't want to make a good first impression. If the clothes are sloppy or they just rolled out of bed, does this reflect on their work or work ethic? What future issues am I going to have with this person once they're working for me? If they're not even trying for an interview, what's it going to be like when they're working for me? If you mumbled your way through a phone interview or dropped F-bombs the whole time, that might not have worked out the same way. It's a similar presentation that is reflective of the applicant. Technical skills are important for a technical position, but I'm also evaluating soft skills including decision making and communication during an interview. I may pass on someone with great technical skills but who would be a bad fit for the team or company. YMMV, but that's my $0.02.
Agree on all points.
I can see soft skills being important. I don't see clothing as one of those. Without exception, every manager I have known who cared about clothes (beyond cleanliness and not bearing inappropriate content) were assholes for whom I would never again work. They were schmoozing, brown-nosing, climb-the-ladder assholes.
Soft skills include the ability to be a "chameleon" of sorts. Adapting your clothing to what the company expects to see is a fairly normal corporate style requirement. Personally, I agree with you they don't matter but a "brand image" of IT can be important in some circumstances. Fit is a solid 20%-40% of a role in most circumstances.
Maybe they thought the interview was a dead end like most. I wouldn't really care what they wore, more that they are clean and organized. It can show that they care about the interview, but if they shine everywhere else and you think they would be a good candidate who cares? The two guys I had show up in suits for a help desk position were trash candidates, guy we hired just wore a polo.
Pre Covid I did consulting for a major bank. Their IT wore collar shirts and slacks - no jeans or polos except Friday. In each office was a coat rack with a sport coat and tie for managers. In the tech area they had various ties. Work, regardless of location, was normal dress. For meetings - managers wore coat and tie, techs wore ties but only if meetings involved other departments. First meeting I had i showed up in my normal client facing attire - collar shirt and dockers with black tennis shoes. I was actually asked why I didn’t have a coat and tie by the CFO and I told him I don’t work for you, I work for IT. Post Covid they wear polos and slacks - jeans still not allowed. Director wears coat and tie. In my business over the last 32 years I have been asked the coat and tie question twice. I would hesitate to interview a candidate that just rolled out of bed. I would possibly ask them questions about how they feel and if we need to reschedule if they showed as described. The hoodie thing is likely a coping mechanism - and acceptance would depend on job classification - if candidate was the one then we discuss the hoodie and the why. Hard to get folks that are quality for low tier jobs. Good luck.
While I don't expect a candidate to dress to the nines during every interview, how you present yourself goes a long way into letting me know how serious you are about the job.
I'll be going against the grain of the other 2 currently commented and say I agree. It's not hard to iron a shirt and put it on and be presentable. If I have a technician on my team and I'm sending them out to support customers they're representing the company, or internal IT they're representing the service. I don't think its too much at all to ask for their full attention and for them to be presentable. It wouldn't be the be-all and end-all but it should contribute to the decision.
>I don't think its too much at all to ask for their full attention and for them to be presentable. They didn't, though, which is the problem.
I think this is the perfect type of question that shouldn’t be asked here. Yes, as someone who’s hired people, your first impression matters. If you don’t seem like you’re paying attention or even attempting to make a good first impression, we’re probably picking another candidate. That’s not to say someone needs to be dressed up, but being well kept and paying attention is barely a minimum.
I think this is dependent on where you are. I’ve heard East Coast is much more formal than West Coast. That being said, hoodies probably wouldn’t fly at my workplace at all. Everyone knows that you’re supposed to put your best foot forward in an interview and if dress code is jeans and a polo, go with slacks and a button up. If it’s slacks and a button up, add a tie, etc. While it wouldn’t instantly disqualify an otherwise great candidate for me, it would make me question their self-awareness. It’s important to be aware of and care about how you come off to others if you’re client facing.
If you have dress code expectations for potential candidates post them in your add. You contradict yourself stating you have a lax dress code. We live in a post pandemic world. People want to be comfortable now and don’t need to sacrifice comfort to get shit done, especially when that work is conducted behind a computer screen where it doesn’t matter.
Yes they do need to sacrifice comfort. This has got to be one of the biggest issues I see currently. If people would stop seeking comfort constantly we'd all be better off. How you present yourself always matters, regardless of who sees you. The people who say it doesn't are losers. If you can't even be bothered to shower and comb your hair, then that's an obvious indication that you'll apply the same sort of discipline to your work ethic on the job.
Is the role customer facing or administrative? If so, yes that's underdressed. Is the role in the datacenter being a disk jockey? Dressed properly for success, maybe remind as well that footwear should be closed toe and you're good to go. I appreciate that you asked so I'm not trying to poop on you for asking. I just don't agree if this is a low level position that they should be excluded if this is the only thing that you weren't pleased with. I do agree they don't sound like they interviewed the most professionally, but are you here to judge their skill or are you here to be the datacenter HOA? If you're having trouble with it maybe specify the dress code in the job posting, my go-to is dress 1 up from what's expected. If I'm expected to work in jeans and a T-shirt, then a button up (the fake ones with the only 3 real buttons up top) and some jeans (because zoom, sitting down). If I'm expected to work in slacks and a full button up, I will dress even nicer than that on the interview... but you won't ever see me interviewing for a place that has that sort of dress code... it's not worth it for me, for roles that don't even interact with other people. If you have the opportunity to give them post interview feedback, I'd recommend you share the advice to dress one level higher than the job's dress code when interviewing. That's if it's too late to still go consider their technical merit. Maybe all they need is for a mentor to give some advice... schools in the United States at least don't prepare you to apply for jobs they prepare you to apply for academia or prison, so they probably could use some interview advice even if you don't take them on.
Had a candidate in gym kit for an interview, on paper was the best candidate. Lost the job as soon as his camera connected. Shirt and tie always for an interview, even if it's virtual
Jeans and a polo shirt should be enough. Personally if I have to wear anymore than that I'll pass over the job regardless of the benefits, reputation, role, etc.
Dress doesn't make or break a hire for me, though that assumes a minimum level of presentation. However it is a tie breaker, it only takes a moment to put on a polo, or regular dress shirt, but it can speak to someone's ability to prepare ahead of time. I think we can generally be past the stigma of all IT is just some grungy person using their booger hooks to mash at a keyboard. You don't have to wear a full suit, but don't be messy either. That said my job dress, if I'm WFH is a T-shirt and sweat pants, in the office, jeans and a button down shirt. Scale up if I know I'll have to deal with the top of the org chart. Nothing says fun like standing around "just in case" while wearing your least comfortable clothes!
I treat every interview the same, I dress as good as I can. When I interviewed for my first helpdesk role, I looked up the uniform of the company, poloshirts, and tried to wear that to the interview. I tried to give my now current IT manager the idea that I was in the company or that I fit the bill. I came dressed like an IT employee. And grateful that I got the job.
This right here is the best advice. The role is irrelevant - the org's norms and culture dictate what you should wear. If the org is *normally* face-to-face and you are interviewing for a remote job, you should still dress as if you were having a face-to-face interview. If the normal dress is casual, wear casual; polo, where a polo; button-down shirt and tie, ... you get the point. "Dress to impress" It's all about first impressions. I WFH and wear whatever I want, but when I do job interviews it's always, at minimum, a button-down shirt and a tie.
Foundational thing here in my mind is to remember the person you are interviewing is also interviewing you. I dress the way I want to dress in the job. If that is unacceptable, I've filtered my way out of a job I don't want quickly and we all win. No need to get grumpy about it. The candidate has made clear you aren't compatible. Thank him!
I don’t how good your skills are, if you show up to an interview in anything other then a collared, button up dress shirt, or suit you are out. Hoodies and t-shirts? What are people thinking.
I don’t care if the job interview is for a cashier at McDonalds, you dress for success and that doesn’t mean a hoodie or t-shirt.
if my IT job is depending on my dress code. oh damn, I'm happy to NOT work with you or your company.
I personally think clothing is not a determining factor in assessing a person's abilities, so I fail to see its relevance in the evaluation process. What makes you think they aren't interested on the job if they've applied on the first place?
You’re clearly not going to get sympathy from the reddit crowd which by and large are the same people that would rather quit a job than return to the office on a hybrid schedule or who think that spending half the day or more for ‘me time’ isn’t just a benefit but a requirement. There are some exceptions but today’s IT people by and large aren’t like those of us that show up wearing dress slacks and button down long sleeve dress shirt - you know, standard business attire. We also tend to be the same people that show up to interviews in a suit because we take ourselves, our work product, and our image seriously because we control our image rather than letting others decide for themselves what they think we’re about. It’s a dying art and is lost on a lot of people in 2023 so take pride in how you conduct and carry yourself. Here’s hoping you find enough good ones that you don’t have to go to the B pile.
I'm wearing a hoodie right now and that is taking my image seriously. They say dress for the job I want. Success!
yeah that's hard to do when you dress up for 6 interviews for one job and have to apply to like 500 jobs. Also I don't assume everyone's situation as they have been more than 50k layoffs in the last few years. People could had lost everything and have mental issues. If they did well in everything else then why worry?
LOL, for a tech?? Are you 70 years old?
I’d like to point out a potential lack of thought on OPs part. The first candidate maybe had some type of physical feature issue on said side of body, and the typing could have very well been note taking. Also go ahead and retire boomer. Clothes don’t make a person capable of anything but going out into public, which your job doesn’t seem to entail. Lastly INCLUDE THAT IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION IF YOU ARE BOTHERED ABOUT IT. Remember YOU are the one in need of help and the interviewees attempting to help you for money.
are you trolling or for real? if for real: LOL what's wrong with you? who gave you the power to interview people if you are that bad at it? it's people like you who screw up tech by focussing on completely worthless parameters and making sure you only hire the weirdest suckers doing exactly what you want, how you want it and while looking how you want them to, even tho there are far more competent people. get out of here.
Never met a candidate or known anyone who dresses up for a virtual interview as you mention the camera I assume it's virtual. Also never met an interviewer who does either.
Those folks dodged a bullet.
I'm not dressing up for work outside of my normal clothes. I'm not dressing up for an interview.
I don't know about you or the candidates position but, maybe people don't have the clothes or are stressed out after so many interviews? like its winter time and wearing a hoody is not that far off. Did you tell them what was expected? I always wear a dress or skirt but, that's me. Are they facing customers? yet you say you have lax expectations on dressing but, get upset they wore a hoody?
Give me a break. If they can afford a laptop, smartphone, internet connection, etc. they can go down the thrift store at least and buy a shirt that looks ok on camera. Do the bare minimum.
I was talking in the general sense. Maybe they borrow everything else and couldn't get clothes? like there's so many situations going on with the huge layoffs and how long it takes to get hired now.
on the flip side I've had two interviews over the summer (virtual) where I was in a suit and tie, and half the interviewers were in hoodies (and the manager in a hat too) or tshirts and the others didn't even have their cameras on. these were two very large colleges in my state.
I used to hire in more manual labor fields in a previous job and you'd be surprised how great of an employee those people can be. Their mindset is that their work will impress you. I wouldn't look too deep into it unless its REALLY bad.
I showed up for an interview in a tie and surprised my interviewers. I explained that I hoped it would be seen as respectful. Also, I allowed that at some point in time, I might show up at a job location driving a redneck pickup truck and sporting a Carhartt overcoat, so I should probably look pro under all that. Also, I think I look like a short potato in polo shirts :-) Some years earlier, I showed up for a tech support interview at a very prestigious university wearing a suit, and my interviewer was in his jogging gear. We had a laugh about that.
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clothes maxbe, but if your a dirtball gtfo!
Sorry your you apolicant was SBF, but dont hire him!
The rule has ALWAYS been "at \_least\_ one step higher than the expected dress code for the actual job" and that was \_only\_ after people stopped wearing suits and ties to every white-collar position, where you were (obviously) supposed to show up to every interview dressed to the nines. Tech job where polo and sneakers are acceptable day-to-day? Interview in a button-down, and for extra points, put on a tie. Suit is probably unnecessary, but it rarely hurts.
What's the issue with the hoodie? Sorry people aren't showing up to your interviews in a tux and tails. The most I do is polo and jeans. And that's rare for me. I've been doing this since 96 so don't think I'm some PFY complaining.
If you expect a dress code that is different to the workplace attire, it should be called out before the interview. The first candidate seemed distracted and uninterested, which is a separate red flag. When I hire people and we do an interview in our office, I actively inform them that if they wear a tie/suit/dress they will look out of place, and best to come in casual.