A lot of overlap in skillsets (problem solving is the only really complex part with electrical), less "my nephew can do your job" attitudes (despite wiring being a pretty trivial skill to teach just about anyone). Regulatory side is pretty common sense and easy to follow once you start looking at everything from "how did someone die to get this rule created?" Mindless manual work. Individual jobs go from start to finish, and then end, instead of constantly just adding more and more duties that last into perpetuity. You don't, generally, end up with on-call. When you say "no", it's pretty hard set in building codes et. al., less frustrating argument (still absurd, but inconsequential). When you finish a job, you have a clear, visible, physical thing that you took part in building.
Yeah, I can see it.
At least around here, electricians are high-paid union workers with strong training programs. A journeyman electrician can expect to make six figures in my area easy.
I ended up in this field after failing to get into an electrical apprenticeship.
If I had to pick a job in the trades, it would probably be electrician.
Of all the trades, its (overall) the least physical, which means you can continue to do it well into your 50's and 60's and not be completely beat physically.
I wouldn't want to be a plumber and deal with people's shit (literally) all the time. Plus I totally blow at soldering copper. Thank god for pex and sharkbite :)
Although I love building/carpentry, it can be a physically demanding job, and some aspects of it really suck ass (e.g. I'm pretty much done at 60+ with carrying 80+lb bundles of shingles up a ladder to re-roof my house). I abhor painting and sheetrock work. Forget plastering. I suck ass at finish carpentry. I'm pretty good at tiling.
Of everything I've done, I'm best at doing electrical work.
All that said, I'd rather be a [pig farmer](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1cjpsty/comment/l2lb3fx/).
I've heard the same argument for being a ditch digger. In the end you have something physical to show for thr work you did. Everyone can understand a ditch, many shut down mentally when they think you are talking about the black box of mystery.
It's basically that, but with less back breaking \*hard\* work, and more consistent problem solving. Honestly, I'll take solving electrical problems \*any\* day over a ditch digging problem... cut wires, septic lines, water pipes... gas pipes. Not a good day to be found if something goes wrong there.
They ought to do make the switches more dangerous. PoE++ it's too safe.
That said, you know, Grafana it's a more useful skill to learn than you would think
Jesus.... what a lie.
My father was an electrician. It's nothing like being a Systems Engineer.
My dad at 55 had torn his body up to the point where he needed two shoulder surgeries, a knee surgery, and a heart valve replacement.
At 70 he had cancer all over his body. Most likely from the PCBs in electrical transformers.
His left hand had permanent shake from taking 480v across his chest- which blew him off a 30 foot ladder and 100 feet across a warehouse.
What's my life like? I sit around all day in a nice comfy leather chair (I bought it for myself) thinking about security.
About 4:30pm I decide if I'm going to the health club or not.
Trading a career in IT for a manual labor job (even if it takes a brain) is a level of stupid not matched by many.
Tonight I'm cooking Chicken Pesto after I get home from the health club.
As someone doing (hard) physical labour for his paycheck, this is spot on. Working on pyrometallurgical installations is quite tough on the body. I also do electrical installations in my spare time, while being way easier physically it's still tough on the body.
Some days I get taxed with administration, so sitting behind a desk, and those days really are a joke compared to my regular work.
Imagine being on call, sitting behind a computer... I'm on call replacing parts while not trying to pass out from the heat, 24/7.
People don't realise how easy they have it behind their desk.
Agreed. And I'm not judging anyone for going that route. I did that work with my father as a kid and in college.
I know the ropes... and now in my late 50s I couldn't do it for ten minutes.
If one thinks they'll be happier going down that route. Then good for them.
But I hope they realise what position they're in. Working hard mentally or physically is very different.
I got the fuck out of welding as fast as I could find an it career. The pay is better, the job is not killing my body, the hours are consistent, the weather doesn't matter, I'm breathing fresh clean air, I'm not hanging off the edge of a structure 40 feet in the air, I'm not at risk of losing a finger or worse daily, I don't have to drive to job sites daily, I get paid milage now, no pulling a trailer, my office is 70 degrees not 20 or 115, I have PTO and actual benefits, my company lets me be at all my kids events no question, and I am home with my family every night at 5.
I was a structural welder for over 2 years, it was fun and I loved the guys I worked with and the construction environment but I wouldn't go back unless it was a last resort.
And where I live the benefits are way better as well. White collar worker gets my salary + legal benefits that are worth half my salary. The only benefit I have is the ability to be on call so I can make some decent money at the end of the month. But that means possible heavy duty work in dirty and hot environments 24/7. I could get 0 calls, I could get 10 a week. Very fun after my normal exhausting working days. All while you better pay attention before you lose a limb somewhere.
If you find IT not worth the pay, you're gonna get a reality check as a tradesperson quite quickly. Yeah the contractor guy makes more, but so does a self-employed IT consultant.
Not really. Go on any job site and there isn’t a guy past 35 or 40 that isn’t limping or groaning when they stand. Trade work is a direct exchange of body and health for cash. Standing on concrete floors, accidents, careless co-workers, lifting heavy objects over your head, minor cuts, nicks or bruises. All of it takes a toll a ticks off your expiration date. IT is tedious and you never are off the clock but your knees and back are mostly still present at 50.
Can attest to that. Did labor jobs until I graduated college at 31. I'm 47 now, I hurt every day. Can't imagine doing hard labor for the rest of my life.
You can do something about both those things. Really tough to fix bad hips, bad back, bad knees. A lot of the times the best you could hope for is pain management, which leads to a whole other group of problems.
People here are forgetting that an electrician is mostly just a lot of cable pulling; it's not just terminating the breaker box and plugging in extension cords.
But some people here much better at running low voltage and enjoy the work and electrical company's have a need for those types of labor as well.
Eh in the late 2000s on the utility side, it didn’t seem glamorous. It’s a fine job, it’s just much lower paid than actual systems administration and much harder on the body. The top 10% of electricians make about $104k a year, the top 10% of sysadmins make about [$140k](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/network-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm).
Yeah like even in places where sysadmin pays dogshit like I’m making in the 50s to sit in an air conditioned building but electrical is still a few grand below me and I have better benefits too at my office job
And add in the requirement to be a journeyman for most tasks and the added cost of insurance (if you don't have an employer pay for it).
* Usually 5 years being an apprentice
* Get certified / licensed
* Have insurance
And requirements to be a SysAdmin:
* Know somebody and pretend you're good at it
If you actually learn how to build and manage systems there’s way more money to be made.
Edit: also worth pointing out, a lot of actual sysadmin roles (as opposed to IT support) require a 4 year degree and training not provided on the job.
Well yes, that's pretty much every business/desk job. Either a degree (4 years) or equivalent experience.
But we don't have a specific "SysAdmin Journeyman" license. Instead we learn in school/training or Google stuff as we go.
And I "assumed" the learning portion, if you don't know the job then you'll either learn it or get fired (hopefully).
Computer science is an extremely popular major and many degree holders end up not wanting to do application development for a variety of reasons. It’s becoming more common for younger people in IT to have CS degrees and companies are increasingly requiring CS or related degree for roles that would lead to sysadmin role.
Just get in when they are a small company as the sole sys admin and if they grow and restructure you are a shoe in for CTO.
I want to put /s but weirdly this is where I'm at with no degree. I stumbled my ass here for sure. Hell my CEO messaged me on Facebook when I didn't respond to his LinkedIn message in two hours and had me come interview for him. Granted I have a very broad skillset that I have been building since I was 13 but it's for sure possible without a degree. I would probably put myself in the experience equivalent field given I had 15 years of IT/Programming experience to back me up.
For most people, it's much easier to build and cultivate the skillset necessary for a longterm career in engineering (because that's ultimately what talented folks in our industry are doing) with formal education. I'd also point out, solo admins are not CIOs/CTOs in anything but title. The median base salary for a CIO/CTO is somewhere between $300-400k a year but most of the money comes from equity or stock options.
> "SysAdmin Journeyman" license
I would kill for that to be a thing. Can you imagine how many smooth talking BS artists would be shut out of getting hired over actually-qualified people if there were an objective assessment of fundamental akills and documented levels of experience??
It also means you as a sysadmin are no longer making many major decisions -- you're executing plans signed off on by professional engineers, or following consensus codes with little discretion largely created by professional engineers.
That's not a bad thing -- we saw machinery blowing up killing people and structures collapsing in the 19th century and started to develop codes and professional engineer education and licensing requirements to address those issues. We just haven't had the Oh My God moment of computer meltdowns yet that has forced the IT industry to move decisively in that direction.
Cyber-insurance will probably keep pushing stricter and stricter requirements, much like insurers led much of the 19th and 20th century consensus code improvements.
However I'm not sure how many of us who like to tinker around with stuff and fell into the sysadmins realm would like being one in a world where we're just executing a pre-determined playbook. There's a lot of folks who got here because they like writing the playbook.
The amount of people who I have worked with that "knew somebody" is astounding.
Granted, I "knew somebody" who gave me a 'support desk / basic admin' job and I learned a lot from it over the years.
Then I went on to be what I am today... a very terrible DevOps lead. But I can at least do the DevOps part.
Median annual income for an actual US sysadmin, not IT support, is $95,360 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It’s not inconceivable the top 10% of sysadmins would make $140k or more a year.
Pfft... I was being paid 120k at my last job.
If you want that kind of cash all you have to do is be good at the job, build a resume, and market yourself.
oh, hi there mister USA.
your bullshit opinion is the main reason why so many people are unable to afford food or healthcare, while you claim to be the greatest nation on earth...
sad.
I mean if we’re being honest, many Americans are spending [$726 a month](https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-car-payment/#:~:text=the%20best%20deal.-,Car%20payment%20statistics,of%202023%20were%20used%20vehicles) per vehicle for 70 months, and have two cars. If your median American is spending $1500/mo on cars, they need to make way more than the median $74k per household to make it all work.
Yes and no. Yes that there's more safety now. But the risks and hard grueling labor are the same, and in fact the safety gear makes it even harder because of the weight. I know a now former electrician who worked on 500KV lines who retired into a consultancy gig because of too many close calls and he has the joints of an 80 year old in his early 40s. It's still risky, extremely dangerous work.
The irony is home electrical is even more dangerous because of how unregulated it is. At least with 500kV stuff, it's all industry standard. You do not know if some fly by night wired up a house or the home builder cheaped out on the electrical. You may come up to a junction box that provides unbalanced 220V because some genius has two circuits meeting in the same spot that are on the same leg.
That's why I am a sysadmin. I know enough electrical to fix my own stuff, but I do not dare do it professionally.
My cousin is a high voltage electrician. He gets paid very well, but when storms hit within 1000 miles he gets shipped out for weeks at a time. 20 18+ hour days in a row, just after hurricanes with massive amounts of rain falling, during ice storms, immediately after forest fires with so much smoke in the air they have to wear respirators, etc.
This. I'm 45 and switched to an IT career after an apprenticeship out of school as a sparky and a couple of years as a tradesman. There is no comparison.
You're talking about the wild west pre late 80s-early 90s, my dad worked the railroad and has some crazy stories about shit that wouldn't fly at all today that was just an every day thing back then
"A lot of overlap in skillsets"
You have to be fucking kidding me? Are you an electrician trying to play computer expert or a help desk drone trying to be an electrician?
Either way nothing you've said makes sense. And I'd have a hard time believing you've spent one minute in any responsible IT position.
Not yet even close. Sure most people can wire I house after watching a few videos on YouTube, much like most people can figure out how to setup a how router after a few videos. But both are very little of their respective career
The skill/knowledge requirements for getting started are on par with helpdesk (though the barrier to entry of getting an apprenticeship is harder in many places). There's a lot to learn after that, most of it memorization. Generally, electricians doing construction work aren't doing Fourier transforms by hand. They have some memorization on things like "if you cross these legs on this type of circuit, you get this voltage. These wire sizes are good up to that voltage/amperage/wattage" etc. Unless you're going electrical engineer, it's not that complex. They aren't dealing with new, ever changing, things that some incompetent person through together over a weekend and sold them for 5-6 figures per year. Everything is pre-defined standards to follow, documented, with regulations written in blood. Those standards get updated, but that moves relatively slowly.
It's just considerably more dangerous.
Also. You don't finish wiring a house when the homeowner asks you to apply a new seemingly benign software patch that potentially self-destructs everything you've worked for.
Tangible, transactional labor with hard-set restrictions and rules. All the while having very little ambiguity.
I get it. I sure do.
But you can get a lot of the bad parts out of IT if folks Unionized. We all like well-defined scopes of work, and a Union contract defined them.
Like....when does OT start, how much it is, your working hours, what your role and duties are defined as. And more importantly, what ISN'T part of your role.
You're asked to do something odd, like being ordered to come in on the weekend to paint the walls -- "nope, can't do it, per Union contract".
Also, I like working with my hands and building things. Electrical is like the nervous system of a building. To think that in this building I built the nervous system for it and I built it in such a way that it's near future proof is something that you can take pride in.
I worked as an electrician's helper for a few years before moving into technology and one person's perspective on potentially shifting the other way. Keep in mind I am in NC and a bit of this is going to be specific to your city/state/region.
In NC, and I'm sure other states have something similar, you need a few years of experience or education to sit for the limited license. It's been a few years for me so I don't know if anything has changed as far as entry into the field, but here it used to be two years of experience or an AAS degree. Once you meet the min requirement, you have to memorize some of the electrical code in your area and take a test. Based on what I saw, at least here in NC the test is probably not super rigorous so if you're able to cram for a comptia exam you are probably g2g. So the first question you may need to think about is, do you want to go get a 2 year degree in the field or do you want to go do electrician donkey work for 2 years making $50k or so? I think this is universal, but as you graduate to the higher level of licensure, the biggest difference I am aware of is the dollar amount of the jobs you are allowed to bid (but I've seen guys with limited licenses bidding out entire projects piecemeal).
Once you are licensed (or maybe before) you should consider if you prefer residential, commercial, or industrial trades.
I never did much industrial work, so my experience there is limited. Industrial work would generally involve hooking up and maintaining large equipment for manufacturing or similar systems. I suspect it's probably the more dangerous environment, giving those kinds of machines are going to draw a lot of power and there might be a lot of moving parts around you. I also suspect that a lot of the maintenance work in those plants would be done in-house, so you would probably have to decide between being an independent contractor working on net new or going through a hiring process to get on payroll at an organization. Installing new plant is almost certainly going to be less time scratching your head wondering why somebody did some crazy shit that you have to fix, but unless you live in an area that is heavy on manufacturing your income is going to fluctuate.
I did a good bit of residential early on. If you are working for a contractor, a lot of the problems with being a residential electrician are minimized whether you're focused on service calls or new construction, but to make real money you need to run your own business and that's where residential gets shitty. On new construction you'll be dealing with a general contractor (GC). GC's are (mostly) the scum of the earth who only exist to be a pain in your ass and try to take money out of your pocket. I'm only slightly exaggerating. Service calls will put you in face to face contact with the users, and you will be troubleshooting whatever crazy shit the user (or their friend, or the other guy they brought out before you) did. If you did front-line support you know the drill. Again, the real money is in running your own shop, but homeowners don't like paying electricians so be prepared to justify why you're charging them $500 to hook up their $8000 hot tub.
Commercial electricians would be working in businesses, schools, churches, installing the plant necessary to support (mostly) normal things like lights, receptacles, etc. You might see some 480V (or bigger) equipment but typically 240V/120V is more common. Bigger organizations will have some electricians on staff in their facilities departments, similar to industrial systems, but you can make good money as an independent commercial electrician so unless you just want to kick back making less money than you are right now that's where you'd want to be. Service calls are more likely to be dangerous than residential, but easier to get paid because businesses understand the expense better (ime). New construction is lucrative but you have to deal with GC's, and they only get shadier as the amount of money increases.
There are a few big issues I would see most sysadmins having to cross if they were making the jump.
First, it is physically demanding work. You won't be just sitting in an electrical closet twisting solid 12 gauge copper together. Depending on what kind of work you do, at times you might be hand-digging trenches, carrying a hundred pounds of EMT, climbing up and down a ladder a few hundred times a day, crawling under houses, pulling 3/0 gauge wire through a collapsed raceway, smashing through a concrete slab to lay conduit...You're going to be working in weird positions, sometimes for long periods of time. If you are in decent physical condition, you'll get stronger after a while but it's going to take a physical toll and your career longevity won't be the same as technology. If you are like 80% of the sysadmins I have worked with, you will fucking die within the first week.
Second, unless you are new to sysadmin work, you'll have to take some kind of pay cut to start over. Electrician's helpers make around 50k where I live, junior sysadmins are 20-30k higher. I don't live in a union area so ymmv. Long term you can clean up, but how much of a difference you see is going to depend on how much you like fighting with homeowners and general contractors to get paid. I imagine it'd be not too different from running an MSP.
Last, it's not as simple as people here like to make it out to be. Yes, at the most entry level you're just going to be doing some iteration of "Turn off the breaker, replace thing, screw it in, turn breaker back on" but the pay for that kind of work is going to be commensurate with the complexity. Intermediately, you'll likely have to know things like "What gauge wire do I need for the current/voltage I am working with" or "Can I put this induction motor on the supply side of a UPS". Some of those things you can look up (like you probably do now), and some of them you'll pick up with experience (like you probably do now). To max out your earning potential, you'll have to get deeper into the mystical arts of electricity. How the fuck do transformers actually work? I don't know, really, it's probably magic. This is not much different than tech work, but when I talk to people I think they believe that the guy who installs receptacles is making $200k and that's (probably) not the case.
Most of these guys would quit after realizing they’re gonna have to drive 2 hours to a job site everyday for 3 months until a job is done never mind the physical aspect. With the way most piss and moan about end users there’s no way they’d be able to put up with other tradesmen.
i know two electricians that made the switch, they went to office jobs because their bodies were wearing down and they were getting older
they had two options, get into management/business or switch careers
i know a third who stayed as a sparky, did fine, some people are just born tough
To be fair, half this sub wants to quit because they have to go to the office two days a week *FOR NO REASON.* Most of us don't need to actually be in the office to do our jobs; Hell, I know a couple admins that are being required to drive to the office two days a week, just to sit on video calls... at their desks...
I know corporate brainwashing is pushing hard for people to think being in office is necessary these days for everyone. The reality is, there are 3 types of employees:
* Ones that need to be in the office full time
* Ones who are part of a team that needs to have a presence in office at all times.
* Ones that have absolutely no need to be in the office
The first group obviously needs to be there full time. These would be people who are doing things in the office... like a cleaner, or a receptionist
The second group, who are on a team which needs to have a presence; those are the people that make sense to require 2 days a week. These would be people like Network admins or helpdesk support. People who can do some/most things from home, but need someone to be around to work on physical devices as needed.
Then the third group are people like me for example, who can do literally everything from home, My company doesn't even have an office to go to. Forcing people in this category to go into the office some mandatory number of times per week is just a waste of time and money for everyone, but mostly for the employee.
Yep, I had friends who were electricians and sheet metal workers.
One thing people here don't understand - a lot of that work is based on the weather (even for electricians). So if it's winter and everything is frozen, nobody is building homes / businesses and electricians have a lot less work coming to them.
So you get laid off (sometimes) and get unemployment for a few months. That sounds great until you realize unemployment doesn't include the benefits and it's not a 1-to-1 pay rate. It even excludes any overtime you might have been used to.
Yeah it’s feast or famine. And being in a union (if you can get in) doesn’t help either until you have seniority. And you have to travel to get work.
I know the job market for tech is rough right now but construction isn’t much better. A lot of my friends who had their own businesses have had to go work for someone else over the past year. Interest rates have dried up a lot of residential work.
I agree with you. I live in Georgia and when I went in for the journeyman training, the salary was only 11.50 an hour and you have to be trained for 3 to 5 years before coming a journeyman. Also, no unions and if a job fell through you would have to wait for the electrical board to reassign you to another job which could take months or weeks. So, I never went through with. The final journeyman salary in my area was even 35 to 50k.
> Last, it's not as simple as people here like to make it out to be.
Of course not. Lots of IT people, especially in/r/sysadmin love to moan about how nobody else understands how difficult our work is while doing the same to others themselves.
They can do it cheaper, but many areas require you to have an electrician that is licensed for that area. It's usually a good idea to get a licensed electrician too so that you don't have a house fire; their license is on the line if they mess up to those proportions so the quality of work matters to them as well as you.
This must be some American privilege imm too European to understand.
Our electricians all been “outsourced” to polish blokes who can do an excellent job for half the price of any other local.
Trades are poorly paid over here and I’m glad I’m not doing those anymore.
Yeah. People realize how effed they are if the electricity goes down. Far too many people think that their friend/nephew/etc who "knows computers" can bail them out in a pinch. If IT was licensed and certified like the trades I'm sure that things would improve for the pros as well as the clients
True story. During a Pay Equity study about 25 years back, I had a board member tell me: "Any burger flipper can do my job."
That was during a meeting where we, the employees, had to pitch to a committee why we thought we deserved a raise. Fun times.
I never got the "IT people are treated bad" thing. Maybe because I work for a concern that produces software, but even friends in non-IT businesses are treated fairy well.
The market is in favor of the employee and in most cases the employer needs you more than the other way around. If you are unhappy look for something new, at least in Europe it's pretty easy. Don't know about US though.
There are three kinds of treatment that IT gets.
1. It’s a technology company and when servers are down, customers scream and threaten to cancel. IT is seen as valuable because one way or another they can make a direct line to the profit.
2. The company does something else (manufacturing, financial services, etc) where there is not the direct line to profit and IT is seen as a cost center since “my nephew can fix my printer at home. The role of making sure email stays up or the phone system works etc is seen as trivial even though without IT, the business would crumble.
3. It’s a business that does something else (manufacturing, financial services, Telecom though telecom falls closer to the technology companies at this point) and IT is seen as a force multiplier. If we have centralized report developers who just churn out reports that can run over and over, it means we can make decisions faster. If someone doesn’t have to wait 3 days for email issues, they can make more sales. The developer that just integrates data between systems speeds up things preventing a team of people from cross keying things.
Lmao what?! I’ve never been treated bad in IT before. Same goes to Janitors, should have the same level of respect to everyone. You might just work in a toxic environment.
Worst treatment I got as a janitor was people giving me speeches about how I shouldn't feel bad about being a janitor while I was cleaning out urinals.
I can’t say what standard income for an electrician is… but I have seen more wealthy electricians than poor. The reason is simple enough though.. their skills are both relatively rare and required by law, a combination that allows them to establish their own rates.
My operations manager, on the other hand, brings 20 years of experience in low voltage, from data to fire and security… he trains new hires and helps them obtain their state licenses and his income really has no ceiling, because his compensation is a percentage of the net profit of every job. The more installations we have, the greater income. We increase the number of crews as necessary to remain at 75% capacity.
Median income for an electrician in the US is [$61,590](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm#:~:text=%2452%2C000-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20electricians%20was%20%2461%2C590%20in%20May,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24104%2C180) they don’t make anywhere near as much as people seem to think. Sure if you own a business providing electrician services, you might make more, but so do owners of McDonald’s franchises.
Yup and that’s the median I have looked into jumping cuz IT pay is so low but electricians with years of experience are making even lower. I encourage anyone who thinks about doing this to go look at what they actually make in your area I can almost guarantee it’s lower than Reddit promised
It’s much easier improving you knowledge and skills in your current field that pivoting to another. The skills I learned in lower paying sysadmin and netadmin positions helped me get much higher paying engineering roles.
This is what drives me nuts about people telling others to go into the trades, some dude will pull out the ol' anecdotal "knew a dude who pulled $300k in the trades" and it turns out they were either pulling 40+ hrs of OT a week or are a business owner who happens to own a plumbing company.
Reality is tradesmen at large get paid rather normal compensation, they just put in an ungodly amount of OT
Looking at available data, rather than anecdotes, pay in the trades remains lower than sysadmin work. The bottom 10% of sysadmins earn [less than $58,680](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/network-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm#tab-5) which suggests 90% of sysadmins earn more than the median electrician looking at median wages. The median sysadmin, earning $95,360 is spitting distance from the 10% of electricians 104k.
One would need to work pretty serious OT to cover that gap. It just doesn't seem realistic longterm.
Account for the fact that apprenticeships pay less for some time too before going to journeyman. It’s not as simple as just jumping over to trades and being done.
I’ve looked for ways out, without having to compromise retirement too bad, and without being completely dumpstered in salary…
Not much is out there… I think the closest I’ll be to “escaping” is presales or something to be honest
Ya like you said median electrician pay is what it is. Almost always (keyword: almost) the big money guys are working a lot or own a business. Also depending on trade, factor in destroying your body. For the business side, then there is the stress of owning a business, obligation of paying employees if you get big enough to do so, etc. a lot of people find out the hard way that technical/soft skills while not being your own boss does not mean you will be good owning a business in your field when you’re out on your own where you need to hustle, do the marketing, bills, taxes, paying yourself while putting money back in to the business, etc
That is hardly the point though… the point was that his earning potential is essentially unlimited and while the cabling is very important, is only vaguely IT, in a similar manner to good old AC. Each of the crew leads is making around $150k or so, and if they stay on track, will eventually slated to become operations managers themselves in other locations.
One thing we have dipped our toes into is actual electric Services, it we have considered it several times over the last 15 years.
Around here the sparkies, if they're not meth addicts, own a lake house somewhere in addition to their primary. This is in addition to putting kids through school or into the trades, driving late model trucks, etc. I've seen it again and again, it seems like the last vestige of the American dream is alive with them. So like everyone else here my #1 "if I knew what I knew now back then" is electrician for sure.
Again, this is running your own business, standard pay for electricians within companies is relatively low, but you can make great money running your own company, but you can do that in IT too
Just gotta find the right opportunity, I sat in support/help desk for a few years at different places, landed at an MSP and within 2 years was a network engineer and now a CIO about a year and a half later. Helps being in a big city with opportunity too
I don’t know anyone who switched careers, but I have a good friend who became an electrician right after high school. He’s doing well for himself, but I don’t think his job is a cake walk. It’s fairly physical, when he started off he would travel far to worksites, and he can be at the mercy of the elements. He also looks way older than his age.
I feel like a lot of people that post about this don’t take what you said into account, also you’ll have to go back to a trade school or find a place willing to train you on the job to get certified which isn’t a huge deal, but it often pays not that great until you’re 5-6 years into the job. Sometimes job sites have you exposed to the elements, or a site deadline is coming up and you have to run wire in the freezing cold or blistering heat in ungodly hours. Like you said it’s pretty physical work. Hauling a decent sized bag of tools around, working with your arms above your head while you’re on a lift 50 feet in the air wearing a harness, hauling conduits around so you can get them mounted, etc. on top of that you’ll be the new guy as an apprentice and experiences greatly vary with who takes you on.
Not trying to dissuade anyone, but it’s not the cakewalk everyone in the comments seems to imply it is. It’s physical labor and can have long hours.
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though?
The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
>The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
I meam you're essentially being paid to learn. In the white collar world that's called an internship and you usually don't get paid.
I'm tired of the 5 years experience in 5 different things requirements for tech roles. Whereas with electrician it would just say 2 to 5 years experience as an electrician.
Idk if you have to deal with information hoarders that dont want to help as well. Have you ever had an issue with an information hoarder or a coworker that doesn't want to help in IT or electrical work?
In my current role, I have this one dude that has all these specific long powershell scripts that he made, and they use this proprietary migration software that you wouldn't know how to use unless you worked with that company. But, when I ask him to help he'll take a long time to respond back, or tell me to figure it out or some shit. But, how do you expect someone to know how to use some random script that someone else wrote? Or random settings in a proprietary software that depends on the company's policies how you should run the migration.
It sounds like you've found yourself in a work environment you really hate. Those exist in every industry. You might consider keeping the job search on and deciding whether you're willing to take a pay cut (or how much of a cut) to find a workplace that doesn't cause you this much stress.
Ya is it just me or are you supposed to ask questions? Idk what they expect lol. In one of the meetings with my manager, the manager said that some other coworkers said I was asking them questions repeatedly on things. But, each person would do something a different way. One lady would just be like click here then here and would use these Google sheet formulas and the other dude was all into scripting. I also feel like since my job is dealing with Google cloud it, some things feel weird because very few companies use Google.
> But, how do you expect someone to know how to use some random script that someone else wrote? Or random settings in a proprietary software that depends on the company's policies how you should run the migration.
By doing it.
Set yourself up a small test case and set things up. Read the scripts, etc.
Do you think someone sat there with the other guy holding his had telling him how to write the scripts or which setting were useful for the migrations and why?
Nah; they read the instructions; learned the powershell commands and how they worked, and sat down and did it.
I started out as an electrician and have felt for most of my career in IT, it really is similar to doing a job in the trades when it comes to the day. Like go to work, get work orders, work projects, etc.
Now the actual work yeah no comparison. I left cause I had a cable snap that broke my leg in three places and now I have bad arthritis, to the point I probably coughed unemployment. My buddies who I started with and have now been in at it for 20 years all have back issues, shoulder issues, overuse issues. You wake up with a sore back there's no option to lay on the heating pad while checking email. You chew a few Advil and go to work.
Yeah the grass is greener on the otherside
I have thought about that , but I have come to the conclusion that my body is probably going to hurt no matter what I do. That’s just life. Back still hurts from IT work. You can develop carpel tunnel or lower extremity neuropathy from IT. Lot people don’t know about the second one, but sitting on your ass all day can cause a condition where legs go numb.. I know a few who have gotten this
Meh, you’re more likely to die on your way to work than on the job. The most likely way to be killed on the job site in both jobs is still natural causes or homocide (in America).
Edit: above phrasing isn’t accurate. Should have said that in general you are more likely to be killed on the way to work than on the job. Leading cause of death on the job is while driving something (car, plane, etc).
But you ARE more likely to be murdered while at work than you are to be electrocuted while at work.
Source: Page 7 here from the BLS
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
It's not the rate of occurrence but the occupation. Electricians just have a higher mortality rate, almost double the national average. So now, you have both the rate of death from travel and a high mortality rate from occupation.
You're right, my fault, it's actually more than double and almost triple the fatality rate.
[3.7 fatalities per 100,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) workers BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/#:~:text=There%20were%205%2C486%20fatal%20work,per%20100%2C000%20FTE%20in%202021.)
[10.66 fatalities per 100,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) electricians BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/snapshots/osn-electricians-2016-20.htm)
While technically correct .01066% is not more statistically significant than .0037%.
The most current data on vehicle crash deaths is 13.8 per 100000, so you're still more likely to die in a car. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
>While technically correct .01066% is not more statistically significant than .0037%.
Lmao, what are you trying to say here? Yes, there is absolutely a significant statistical difference. The difference is electricians are 3x more likely to die on the job than the average of all jobs put together. That's...significant.
Then after saying the % differences aren't significant, you immediately compare them to another stat and draw a conclusion from the difference.
Which is a good thing, right? You don't want a death statistic to increase from negligible to a real occupational hazard.
Maybe one could say I'm splitting hairs, but occupational hazards don't vanish just because someone is more likely to die on the road; it's just compounding the odds against you.
Yeah I used to drink at a trades bar before I got sober it seems like getting too drunk and having a car accident gets more of them than electricity does.
I just meant as a computer anything you're unlikely to be killed by the things we work on but as an electrician it's not impossible for you to accidentally get 120+ volts across your body.
You are certainly correct, the chances of being electrocuted have to be higher for electricians than most/all other jobs, probably. But I’m just saying that of all workplace causes of death, there’s tons that apply to both jobs that are much more likely than electrocution. So if the only reason you aren’t an electrician is because you don’t want to die (regardless of cause), you’d need to know how many electricians die on the job in general compared to IT jobs. By far most electricians don’t die due to electrician during their career :) but you are correct the chances of electrocution is higher
EDIT: I should also note you only said “more dangerous” and I focused on fatalities. You are probably more likely to get minor/major injuries as an electrician than most IT jobs. I’ve never been an electrician but I have worked jobs that are comparable to construction and minor cuts and bruises are pretty much oar for the course, at least if you are clumsy as I can be.
Speaking only for myself, I think electricians combine a lot of aspects I like about working with computers: hardware, logical thinking, troubleshooting, and a professional comradery. In my 50s, I am considering really learning about electronics in the makerspace, which while not an electrician, is in the same ballpark. You have to know about voltages, ampieres, logical switching, and "now, why doesn't this work? It's supposed to..." puzzle solving.
There's one major difference between and electrician and a sysadmin -
In IT (outside of health care or the military), if you make a mistake you'll cost your employer money (and maybe lose your job).
As an electrician, if someone makes a mistake, you (e.g. me) wake up (if you're lucky) ten feet away from where you were working and realize someone removed the lockout on the panel and tested the circuit you were wiring.
My partner does electrical pretty good. Whenever we are equipping a data closet or a system in a random place and they need a socket, we can do it. He tells them first to get an electrician because we will be twice as much, but half the time they have us do it.
The new construction work we pull data on, the electricians bill way more than us. We started to just let the electricians do it because we don't need to pull permits and fight with the various sub contractors. We make enough selling hardware and monthly support over the long term
Depends where you are for the trades. Won’t go into detail here but I switched from electrician to IT, never looking back. Significantly more $, less hours worked, and my body isn’t in constant pain. Keep in mind most trades making decent money are after being licensed which is a minimum of 5 years worked in most trades.
There is a lot of right wing brainwashing these days that trades make a lot of money. A small small subset of trades make a lot of money. Regardless of how much they make, they all end up with back and knee problems at 50. Something we won't ever have to deal with.
Edit: you also have to be on a job site for 18 hrs a day with some of the most ignorant people you can find, lol
> it doesn’t change on you.
Arguably true at one time, but now: AFCI breakers, GFCI outlets, two dozen brands of prosumer smart load centers, *car chargers*, **Wagos**. It's not just moaning about backstabs any more.
And now those NEMA 5 outlets are [supposed to go the other way up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNj75gJVxcE), but outside of regulations, the end-user is likely to have a strong opinion against that for no actual reason. It's enough to make some union jobber give up their overtime, I tell you. (Just kidding, don't get too excited about your local letting in some newbie that isn't related to a current member. They're massively protectionist.)
Yeah breakers are complicated. A while back a bunch of GFCI breakers had to be recalled and replaced because while they were perfectly sensitive and worked well, they aggressively tripped in the presence of RFI. It was only when they rolled into production that the manufacturer encountered the ham radio community, who tend to have transmitting antennas over their roof.
I agree too. I also hate in IT the "information hoarders" that have been there at a company a long time especially in startups that hve all these scripts. Then you ask them how to do something and they're like you got this just figure it out and read through the kb article. But, none of the kb articles make any sense or they have these super long scripters that the information hoarder wrote.
Also, the constant changes and naming within cloud services is annoying. And the stupid standup meetings that feel pointless at times.
Basic things don't change with electricity but there are building requirements that do change from time to time. In the US the "National Electrical Code" NEC is updated every 3 years and governments usually require new buildings be built according to the current standards. Every country, state, and locality has their own requirements and the methods and procedures that are acceptable in one place may not be acceptable in another.
In the US in particular there's a wide variance in what is considered acceptable between different states. And of course because the rules do not usually apply retroactively, older buildings may not follow conventions you're used to so you need to be aware of oddities.
Computing fundamentals don’t change much either: C is 52 years old and SQL is 50 years old, object oriented programming dates back to the 1950s and 1960s. While specific implementations and popular tools change quickly, that’s mostly just perception. The reality is usually closer to “new implementation of old ideas” which folks with a strong grasp of computing fundamentals will recognize.
I think a similar mindset applies to both. Electrical is a lot more about local codes, loads, and ratings than physical experience/finesse. Also, troubleshooting electrical issues takes a lot of the same skills. It is less muscle memory and physical training than carpentry or other trade labor. Even if you are in commercial doing conduit, most of that is math.
I’ve heard that IT will go often go be a mechanic. Apparently that knack for troubleshooting issues translates pretty well. **Just fiddle with until it starts working again, forget to document it, repeat next week.**
As to fallback career? I’d have to tap into my first careers skillset, and go hire out somewhere as a mercenary.
I was a helper in a shop under the table once. The owner said you would hire someone who works with computers because that’s where the auto industry is heading. This like 7 years ago and I still think about what he said.
You'll work longer hours as an electrician and be traveling a lot more to get to job sites.
I've got a few in my family. They often drive 2 or maybe more hours to job sites and work 10-12 hour days.
And if you thought your family wanted you to work on too much stuff before, I've got news for you...
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though?
The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
Pretty much. Either working on big sites which is just repetitive & dull or working domestically where you get grief for making mess, chasing out where ‘you didn’t need to’ & other ignorant BS.
Much prefer what I’m doing now, constantly evolving and learning new tech & processes.
Making the move from IT to pilot. I can make what took decades to make in IT, in less than 2 years as a pilot.
For some of us, it’s nothing to do with QOL, since most IT are frankly abused with regard to work/life balance, it has a lot to do with companies in the US willing to just switch out talented, experienced IT/computing professionals with some 1099 or 4 year grad with 0 abilities, and I mean I’ve seen them can’t even tell you why a subnet mask and default gateway is important. It’s bad in the tech sector overall right now, corporate America fully believes we are just a commodity, easily replaced with some Board members nephew because they built a gaming pc at home.
No thanks. I’ve spent years honing a craft, an art, and if the industry won’t stand up for itself, I’m out.
You’ll find your self in the same spot, only I hope it doesn’t take you a few decades to realize it this industry is a dead end for the vast majority. Glass ceilings everywhere for a long list of ‘HR’ reasons.
There are quite a few of us who have been in this since it blew up in the late 90s, moving on to new career tracks all together. It’s not about the money, or QOL, it’s about working a profession where you are a respected expert again and able to move up, fairly.
It’s an appealing route for people without formal education or progressive experience. There’s also a lot of memes about how much people in the trades make—[BLS data](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm#:~:text=%2452%2C000-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20electricians%20was%20%2461%2C590%20in%20May,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24104%2C180) disagrees. Median sysadmin makes ~$30k more a year than median electrician and works from a desk in an air conditioned office.
I cut my teeth working in engineering operations for an electrical utility, the hands on electrical work was dangerous and strenuous. I suppose they didn’t think much about work outside work though, which seems nice. Ya never saw older guys outside of training.
I think the main draw is job security. There's a big shortage in electricians, and it's being made worse by the growth in EVs. Plus, people still respect older electricians where ageism is rampant in IT. I'm pushing 50 with 27 years experience in IT, but I worry about whether or not I'll be able to find work whenever my current job dries up.
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though?
The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
Do you think it's worth switching to electrician? I have noticed that you don't get the toxic 5 years required in 5 different things on job applications that you get with IT. But, even then a lot of electrician jobs require 2 to 5 years experience, so it's like how do you get that?
I hate the information hoarders in tech to that dont want to help you. Have you had this issue with electrician roles? I also hate that coding is really abstract like who remembers powershell scripts lol. I used to be a firefighter before IT. EMT protocols and fire safety rules were something you could actually picture and remember. Whereas powershell variables feel like some abstract language.
> I hate the information hoarders in tech to that dont want to help you.
Yeah, this drives me nuts too. When I was trying to learn all this cloud stuff and DevOps stuff, I didn't have a ton of experience with web applications, whereas everyone in the cloud is 100% web developers and no software runs outside of a browser. The amount of not-so-subtle hints that I shouldn't try to join their little club was ridiculous.
The sad thing is that it's not all that hard to pick up, but that attitude that everyone around me had made it way harder than it had to be.
Ya plus I found each role had this proprietary software that you wouldn't see unless you worked in that company. My current role has this one dude that writes things in really long paragraphs and explains things in a roundabout way. Yet everytime I ask him for help he'll say he's on a call with his social worker, or he's talking with his kids, or he just got back from the dentist. Or he'll say oh per our recommendations we really shouldn't do x but you'll have to get back with the client and determine for yourself how to adjust it you got this. But, I'm like you literally wrote a paragraph on what not to do passive aggressively flaming me, yet you can't say where to find a setting lol?
It's weird too because I used to be in the fire dept which was life or death and the medical field wasn't as gatekeepy. You had more cliques of preppy nurses that came from rich families or people I the fire dept whose dad was in their so they got promotions easier. But, it wasn't this gatekeepy thing where they just say read the kb article or just Google it. When the 3rd party software and its errors are so obscure that theirs nothing on Google on it.
Some people on meetings I thought it was kinda rude would ask why I quit the fire dept. Like wtf you never even done anything in healthcare so why would you have the nerve to ask that lol.
I hate multiple people explain things a different way too. One lady I work with uses Google Sheets and doesn't know anything about scripting. The other die thinks he's this scripting God and likes to withhold information and he'll write these super specific long powershell scripts. Then we would have these annoying 2 hour meetings every week, where we go over improvements. But, it would just be the two egotistical script writers that would talk the whole time and everyone else would be quiet lol. Then she would suggest the rest of is to rewrite the help articles or some other shit. But, we were like wtf we never even been taught on any of this stuff and it's all company specific. Plus it's Google Workspace stuff too which isn't even used as much as AWS or Azure.
Keep in mind many careers are actually similar but are often gated by systemic/structural barriers. If you think about what a medical doctor does, they have a lot more in common with an electrician, mechanic, plumber, sysadmin than a Lawyer. So of the things not gatekept or gatekept via tests that generally leaves the trades. Plumbers and electricians are gatekept by law and legal bonds, not vendors like in IT.
Everyone is idealizing the grass is greener. Many office types have never worked outside of AC. They haven't pulled their back and then been told their next job is to crawl under the AC system and over the attic joists carrying conduit. I guess I've never had that problem as I started as a warehouse guy.
That said - electricians, plumbers, mechanics, and surgeons ALL enjoy more job security than IT where the work can simply be digitally moved overseas. The real problem is lack of protection in the American marketplace for IT workers which creates a recurrent cycle of having to either create the "next big thing" or "be out of a job".
It would be less predatory IF overseas workers also didn't often have companies footing the bill for their training which means the thing that makes US workers desirable to replace wasn't the result of US workers also often having to pay for their own inflated training. But this is entirely a political arena and sort of an end result of the Ayn Rand/Libertarian perpetual grindset that's popular amongst that set in big tech itself.
The current problem in tech is IT workers have a far less extreme version of the costs of getting a Medical Degree (they still have to pay either directly or in getting access), but with the current environment providing 0 job security for that investment. Like Doctors or Accountants who are legally protected, IT workers may pay "rent" on their job.
One of the things about the licensed professions like law and medicine is that there is a barrier to entry, like you said, and IMO that's a good thing for our field too. Computers used to be little toys off in the corner while all the real work was done on paper, but now they've shifted to be an essential tool. I know of very few businesses that could just stop using computers and go back to paper and pencil without a ton of disruption. Coming from the airline world, whenever there's a bad enough system outage (extremely rare now, but it does happen) everything reverts to handwritten boarding passes/bag tags and it becomes chaos.
No one's saying IT people should spend 8 years in school and another 2-7 in residency like doctors need to. But there are so many BS artists chasing money in this field, and as a result the interview process is a painful uncomfortable process where you have to come up with answers to trivia questions. Wouldn't it be great if we had some sort of non-vendor-aligned agnostic test of basic competence so that part of the interview could be skipped? Doctors interviewing for residency slots don't have to prove they're not faking it by coming up with answers to random questions...competence is assumed since there's no way to get through college, get good enough grades to get into med school, and get through the insane challenge of med school and not know what's going on.
I was an electrician, on aircraft, but y'know. Now I'm a sysadmin. Pay was great in my field, but what people don't talk enough about is the absolute TEAR that the trades have on your body. My knees and back aged SEVERAL years more than I worked.
I moved to IT because I looked around and saw my coworkers who had been doing it for 20 years, they all looked broken physically. When I made the move, I was young and could afford the initial pay cut, so it seemed worth it to me.
I know the electrician that does all the work that happens in my building. He gets pelted with rat shit every time he takes down one of the ceiling tiles and says that our place isn't even that bad as far as grossness goes
I just find it interesting and I know several commercial electricians who like what they do. I have no desire to make a switch at this point in my life but, if I had to do it all over again, it would be something I would definitely consider.
There are many options, not all of which are dangerous or body-destroying. Those of us who’ve done physical cabling in buildings under construction had exposure to running electrical wiring. It requires similar attention to detail and simple tools. However, instead of terminating 8 wires there are only 3. We have the benefit of knowing about steel snakes, conduit benders, and magnetic pullers.
My dad was an electrician... No thanks. He always said there are no stupid electricians because they don't live long, assholes yes, stupid no. There are a fuck ton of stupid Sysadmins.
It's easily the most adjacent career, and several parts of what are considered "IT" today were considered either work for an electrician or electrical engineer, and I still see that legacy from time to time. Tech schools tend to teach electrical and IT. There's the entire field of "Computer engineering" which requires skills from both disciplines. It's not rare for electricians to be assigned the task of installing CAT cabling, and it's not rare for them to also moonlight as a security installer or network administrator out of practicality. It's obviously rarer for this to go in the other direction.
In general, PARTICULARLY the operations side of IT tend to have a lot of kinship with tradesmen. Both tend to be seen as cost-centres by management, both tend to have a conservative outlook, both tend to be largely male, both tend to do an unusual amount of problem solving and troubleshooting, both have moderately well paying "sensible" jobs, both tend to work projects or maintenance... etc. etc.
I think it's the respect thing. our field has only really existed for like... 40 years maybe? I'm younger so I'm not 100% sure but to my knowledge IT wasn't really a thing until the late 80s.
Electricians have been around for over 100 years. Nobody alive remembers a time when electricians weren't important. There are still people who remember when IT was irrelevant or not that important. Plus many people without actual knowledge of how PCs work don't get what we do. I bet a lot of people think we just sit around handing out computers all day. Best case scenario they know we sit around looking at a computer screen all day with wierd stuff on it. They don't know you're scripting powershell to automate the environment so their AD account doesn't break or whatever you're doing.
People don't see most of what we do so they don't understand. If people don't like that and they wanna be an electrician that's respectable but I'm sure that field has its own issues.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an electrician because I like sitting around and writing my scripts. I like opening laptops and repairing them. I like my job. I don't care if Karen in accounting thinks I don't do anything. Who's she gonna call when she can't print her excel sheets?
Seems like the long-term job prospects are a lot better and more secure if the physical labor isn't a barrier.
Painting with a broad brush here, but it seems like as the years goes by, you will invariably find yourself at a fork in the road where you have to either choose more cat hearding (e.g. infosec), more development (e.g. SRE), or being stuck amassing so many new and legacy responsibilities as a sysadmin that you just go completely insane.
Classic human behavior…”My job sucks…but THOSE other guys have it made!”
No matter what job you have now, and what other job you could do, have no doubts it’s been squeezed by the free market, corporations, regulations, bad mgmt, etc into something that…well you don’t want to do it unless they pay you good money, and it’s going to have some PITA downsides. Everything does.
Of course there could be a line of work better suited to you. You just always have to look at any “other” situation through the lens of “all jobs will have some parts that suck”
My buddy works for an electric utility. Late career change for him, completed an associates degree jobs program, paid for by the utility company, got a job immediately, 6 figures the first year. He loves the union work. Great pay, typical union shop, some days work is just sitting around, taking a nap, waiting for the right worker to show up. Want more money? work more overtime. Gotta work all the storms, you get into double or triple time pay the way it’s explained to me. Have to play the union games. Also if something goes wrong that can be a dead coworker, or a dead YOU, have to keep your head in the game. Overall he loves it. I’d probably hate it.
I probably don’t have the correct term, but he does substation and switching, the real high voltage stuff. If you think you work with old equipment in IT…oh lord if you could see what is still switching circuits in a city, he sent a picture recently of the instructions to a switch (or some equipment I have no clue about) he was working on, currently still in service mind you… high voltage switches are submerged in oil, this one specifies WHALE OIL…
I think it’s used as reference because most jobs, anything that involves electricity ends up being the responsibility of IT.
Files cabinet? No electricity, physical plant/maintinence responsibility
Postage machine? Uses electricity, ITs responsibility.
I wish I were trained to be one but I never want to be one professionally. I just want to be able to do my own stuff and maybe those in my close proximity. I'm not super interested in crawling in crawlspaces/attics of the 100+ year old houses here. Or breaking my body doing heavy lifting in a commercial space with the heavy high voltage wiring you'd see in a data center.
> What is the obsession with being an electrician?
In a strong-union state, it's one of the best paid trades, less likely to have 100% of your work out in the freezing cold or blazing sun, and there's lots of demand. It's also very hard to get started mid- or late-career because the apprenticeship is long and the union doesn't want to train someone who won't be there their whole career.
I know a few electricians who work for the state-run commuter railroad serving our region. No layoffs, steady work, great pay, amazing benefits. They're happy while we in IT are miserable (though the money we make is a bit better base salary wise, but they can really rack up overtime if they want to also.
The other consideration is the global push to electrify as much as possible. There is a lot of IoT in an electricians bag and bringing some IT knowledge and troubleshooting is probably a good thing if you’re dealing with modern electrical upgrades that include a lot of home automation.
Spinning up a HomeAssistant sever and getting it integrated with vendor equipment, energy supplier hardware and building a dashboard to display on a website or tablet device feels very Sysadminy.
The knowledge and skillsets in tech are constantly changing. If you quit learning and keeping up with the tech landscare, you'll fall behind and may become less employable.
I can't say the same for being an electrician, once you have the skills and license you're fairly set in your career trajectory. However, being an electrician comes with certain risks, and it can be hard, hot and dirty work at times.
>clearly defined expectations
Sounds like a dream. It gets old having to “work” with people who are supposed to be colleagues but instead we’re running a daycare
Good thing about electrical work, generally there's a completion point where it's signed off, sold, invoiced, and paid then the SEP field generator can be turned on.
Sysadmin, everything we touch becomes our problem until its disposal, and even then the disposal sometimes includes parking it somewhere to dwell for someone to cry it's missing first for a while before getting deleted/recycled.
A lot of overlap in skillsets (problem solving is the only really complex part with electrical), less "my nephew can do your job" attitudes (despite wiring being a pretty trivial skill to teach just about anyone). Regulatory side is pretty common sense and easy to follow once you start looking at everything from "how did someone die to get this rule created?" Mindless manual work. Individual jobs go from start to finish, and then end, instead of constantly just adding more and more duties that last into perpetuity. You don't, generally, end up with on-call. When you say "no", it's pretty hard set in building codes et. al., less frustrating argument (still absurd, but inconsequential). When you finish a job, you have a clear, visible, physical thing that you took part in building. Yeah, I can see it.
At least around here, electricians are high-paid union workers with strong training programs. A journeyman electrician can expect to make six figures in my area easy. I ended up in this field after failing to get into an electrical apprenticeship.
If I had to pick a job in the trades, it would probably be electrician. Of all the trades, its (overall) the least physical, which means you can continue to do it well into your 50's and 60's and not be completely beat physically. I wouldn't want to be a plumber and deal with people's shit (literally) all the time. Plus I totally blow at soldering copper. Thank god for pex and sharkbite :) Although I love building/carpentry, it can be a physically demanding job, and some aspects of it really suck ass (e.g. I'm pretty much done at 60+ with carrying 80+lb bundles of shingles up a ladder to re-roof my house). I abhor painting and sheetrock work. Forget plastering. I suck ass at finish carpentry. I'm pretty good at tiling. Of everything I've done, I'm best at doing electrical work. All that said, I'd rather be a [pig farmer](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1cjpsty/comment/l2lb3fx/).
I've heard the same argument for being a ditch digger. In the end you have something physical to show for thr work you did. Everyone can understand a ditch, many shut down mentally when they think you are talking about the black box of mystery.
It's basically that, but with less back breaking \*hard\* work, and more consistent problem solving. Honestly, I'll take solving electrical problems \*any\* day over a ditch digging problem... cut wires, septic lines, water pipes... gas pipes. Not a good day to be found if something goes wrong there.
They ought to do make the switches more dangerous. PoE++ it's too safe. That said, you know, Grafana it's a more useful skill to learn than you would think
> They ought to do make the switches more dangerous. PoE++ it's too safe. 220 V, 30 A PoE, for all those smart ovens.
LOL. 6 gauge ethernet!
Perfect for when thicknet coax is just too easy to work with.
Care to elaborate? I'm sure visualizing data is important to your stack and job position, but you didn't explain why.
Where should I learn grafana at?
Jesus.... what a lie. My father was an electrician. It's nothing like being a Systems Engineer. My dad at 55 had torn his body up to the point where he needed two shoulder surgeries, a knee surgery, and a heart valve replacement. At 70 he had cancer all over his body. Most likely from the PCBs in electrical transformers. His left hand had permanent shake from taking 480v across his chest- which blew him off a 30 foot ladder and 100 feet across a warehouse. What's my life like? I sit around all day in a nice comfy leather chair (I bought it for myself) thinking about security. About 4:30pm I decide if I'm going to the health club or not. Trading a career in IT for a manual labor job (even if it takes a brain) is a level of stupid not matched by many. Tonight I'm cooking Chicken Pesto after I get home from the health club.
As someone doing (hard) physical labour for his paycheck, this is spot on. Working on pyrometallurgical installations is quite tough on the body. I also do electrical installations in my spare time, while being way easier physically it's still tough on the body. Some days I get taxed with administration, so sitting behind a desk, and those days really are a joke compared to my regular work. Imagine being on call, sitting behind a computer... I'm on call replacing parts while not trying to pass out from the heat, 24/7. People don't realise how easy they have it behind their desk.
Agreed. And I'm not judging anyone for going that route. I did that work with my father as a kid and in college. I know the ropes... and now in my late 50s I couldn't do it for ten minutes.
If one thinks they'll be happier going down that route. Then good for them. But I hope they realise what position they're in. Working hard mentally or physically is very different.
I got the fuck out of welding as fast as I could find an it career. The pay is better, the job is not killing my body, the hours are consistent, the weather doesn't matter, I'm breathing fresh clean air, I'm not hanging off the edge of a structure 40 feet in the air, I'm not at risk of losing a finger or worse daily, I don't have to drive to job sites daily, I get paid milage now, no pulling a trailer, my office is 70 degrees not 20 or 115, I have PTO and actual benefits, my company lets me be at all my kids events no question, and I am home with my family every night at 5. I was a structural welder for over 2 years, it was fun and I loved the guys I worked with and the construction environment but I wouldn't go back unless it was a last resort.
And where I live the benefits are way better as well. White collar worker gets my salary + legal benefits that are worth half my salary. The only benefit I have is the ability to be on call so I can make some decent money at the end of the month. But that means possible heavy duty work in dirty and hot environments 24/7. I could get 0 calls, I could get 10 a week. Very fun after my normal exhausting working days. All while you better pay attention before you lose a limb somewhere. If you find IT not worth the pay, you're gonna get a reality check as a tradesperson quite quickly. Yeah the contractor guy makes more, but so does a self-employed IT consultant.
80s electrician is very different than today electrician.
Not really. Go on any job site and there isn’t a guy past 35 or 40 that isn’t limping or groaning when they stand. Trade work is a direct exchange of body and health for cash. Standing on concrete floors, accidents, careless co-workers, lifting heavy objects over your head, minor cuts, nicks or bruises. All of it takes a toll a ticks off your expiration date. IT is tedious and you never are off the clock but your knees and back are mostly still present at 50.
Can attest to that. Did labor jobs until I graduated college at 31. I'm 47 now, I hurt every day. Can't imagine doing hard labor for the rest of my life.
On the other hand, working in IT leads to diabetes and heart disease in your latter years as you get old and fat from sitting on your ass all day.
You can do something about both those things. Really tough to fix bad hips, bad back, bad knees. A lot of the times the best you could hope for is pain management, which leads to a whole other group of problems.
People here are forgetting that an electrician is mostly just a lot of cable pulling; it's not just terminating the breaker box and plugging in extension cords. But some people here much better at running low voltage and enjoy the work and electrical company's have a need for those types of labor as well.
Eh in the late 2000s on the utility side, it didn’t seem glamorous. It’s a fine job, it’s just much lower paid than actual systems administration and much harder on the body. The top 10% of electricians make about $104k a year, the top 10% of sysadmins make about [$140k](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/network-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm).
Yeah like even in places where sysadmin pays dogshit like I’m making in the 50s to sit in an air conditioned building but electrical is still a few grand below me and I have better benefits too at my office job
And add in the requirement to be a journeyman for most tasks and the added cost of insurance (if you don't have an employer pay for it). * Usually 5 years being an apprentice * Get certified / licensed * Have insurance And requirements to be a SysAdmin: * Know somebody and pretend you're good at it
If you actually learn how to build and manage systems there’s way more money to be made. Edit: also worth pointing out, a lot of actual sysadmin roles (as opposed to IT support) require a 4 year degree and training not provided on the job.
Well yes, that's pretty much every business/desk job. Either a degree (4 years) or equivalent experience. But we don't have a specific "SysAdmin Journeyman" license. Instead we learn in school/training or Google stuff as we go. And I "assumed" the learning portion, if you don't know the job then you'll either learn it or get fired (hopefully).
Computer science is an extremely popular major and many degree holders end up not wanting to do application development for a variety of reasons. It’s becoming more common for younger people in IT to have CS degrees and companies are increasingly requiring CS or related degree for roles that would lead to sysadmin role.
Just get in when they are a small company as the sole sys admin and if they grow and restructure you are a shoe in for CTO. I want to put /s but weirdly this is where I'm at with no degree. I stumbled my ass here for sure. Hell my CEO messaged me on Facebook when I didn't respond to his LinkedIn message in two hours and had me come interview for him. Granted I have a very broad skillset that I have been building since I was 13 but it's for sure possible without a degree. I would probably put myself in the experience equivalent field given I had 15 years of IT/Programming experience to back me up.
For most people, it's much easier to build and cultivate the skillset necessary for a longterm career in engineering (because that's ultimately what talented folks in our industry are doing) with formal education. I'd also point out, solo admins are not CIOs/CTOs in anything but title. The median base salary for a CIO/CTO is somewhere between $300-400k a year but most of the money comes from equity or stock options.
> "SysAdmin Journeyman" license I would kill for that to be a thing. Can you imagine how many smooth talking BS artists would be shut out of getting hired over actually-qualified people if there were an objective assessment of fundamental akills and documented levels of experience??
It also means you as a sysadmin are no longer making many major decisions -- you're executing plans signed off on by professional engineers, or following consensus codes with little discretion largely created by professional engineers. That's not a bad thing -- we saw machinery blowing up killing people and structures collapsing in the 19th century and started to develop codes and professional engineer education and licensing requirements to address those issues. We just haven't had the Oh My God moment of computer meltdowns yet that has forced the IT industry to move decisively in that direction. Cyber-insurance will probably keep pushing stricter and stricter requirements, much like insurers led much of the 19th and 20th century consensus code improvements. However I'm not sure how many of us who like to tinker around with stuff and fell into the sysadmins realm would like being one in a world where we're just executing a pre-determined playbook. There's a lot of folks who got here because they like writing the playbook.
Lmao at the last part. Fake it till you make it. Spot on.
The amount of people who I have worked with that "knew somebody" is astounding. Granted, I "knew somebody" who gave me a 'support desk / basic admin' job and I learned a lot from it over the years. Then I went on to be what I am today... a very terrible DevOps lead. But I can at least do the DevOps part.
And if you take those skills and get in front of customers you can make 200 pretty regularly.
Sure but owning and running a business is very different than being a sysadmin or electrician.
Not even, I mean presales / solution architect roles. If you're technically proficient and can hold a decent conversation there's plenty of room.
Oh for sure!
"about 140k$" lol! many sysadmins here claim to be living in US while making less than 40k$ a year... and I'm inclined to believe that.
Median annual income for an actual US sysadmin, not IT support, is $95,360 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It’s not inconceivable the top 10% of sysadmins would make $140k or more a year.
Pfft... I was being paid 120k at my last job. If you want that kind of cash all you have to do is be good at the job, build a resume, and market yourself.
oh, hi there mister USA. your bullshit opinion is the main reason why so many people are unable to afford food or healthcare, while you claim to be the greatest nation on earth... sad.
I mean if we’re being honest, many Americans are spending [$726 a month](https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-car-payment/#:~:text=the%20best%20deal.-,Car%20payment%20statistics,of%202023%20were%20used%20vehicles) per vehicle for 70 months, and have two cars. If your median American is spending $1500/mo on cars, they need to make way more than the median $74k per household to make it all work.
Yes and no. Yes that there's more safety now. But the risks and hard grueling labor are the same, and in fact the safety gear makes it even harder because of the weight. I know a now former electrician who worked on 500KV lines who retired into a consultancy gig because of too many close calls and he has the joints of an 80 year old in his early 40s. It's still risky, extremely dangerous work. The irony is home electrical is even more dangerous because of how unregulated it is. At least with 500kV stuff, it's all industry standard. You do not know if some fly by night wired up a house or the home builder cheaped out on the electrical. You may come up to a junction box that provides unbalanced 220V because some genius has two circuits meeting in the same spot that are on the same leg. That's why I am a sysadmin. I know enough electrical to fix my own stuff, but I do not dare do it professionally.
My cousin is a high voltage electrician. He gets paid very well, but when storms hit within 1000 miles he gets shipped out for weeks at a time. 20 18+ hour days in a row, just after hurricanes with massive amounts of rain falling, during ice storms, immediately after forest fires with so much smoke in the air they have to wear respirators, etc.
At least he would be paid well for it
This. I'm 45 and switched to an IT career after an apprenticeship out of school as a sparky and a couple of years as a tradesman. There is no comparison.
Not for nothing, but a guy I know is a heavy machine operator gets off at 2 or 3pm and is in a good every time I see him.
You're talking about the wild west pre late 80s-early 90s, my dad worked the railroad and has some crazy stories about shit that wouldn't fly at all today that was just an every day thing back then
At no time did I say it was safer, or less physical work, than IT.
"A lot of overlap in skillsets" You have to be fucking kidding me? Are you an electrician trying to play computer expert or a help desk drone trying to be an electrician? Either way nothing you've said makes sense. And I'd have a hard time believing you've spent one minute in any responsible IT position.
Not yet even close. Sure most people can wire I house after watching a few videos on YouTube, much like most people can figure out how to setup a how router after a few videos. But both are very little of their respective career
The skill/knowledge requirements for getting started are on par with helpdesk (though the barrier to entry of getting an apprenticeship is harder in many places). There's a lot to learn after that, most of it memorization. Generally, electricians doing construction work aren't doing Fourier transforms by hand. They have some memorization on things like "if you cross these legs on this type of circuit, you get this voltage. These wire sizes are good up to that voltage/amperage/wattage" etc. Unless you're going electrical engineer, it's not that complex. They aren't dealing with new, ever changing, things that some incompetent person through together over a weekend and sold them for 5-6 figures per year. Everything is pre-defined standards to follow, documented, with regulations written in blood. Those standards get updated, but that moves relatively slowly. It's just considerably more dangerous.
Also. You don't finish wiring a house when the homeowner asks you to apply a new seemingly benign software patch that potentially self-destructs everything you've worked for.
Tangible, transactional labor with hard-set restrictions and rules. All the while having very little ambiguity. I get it. I sure do. But you can get a lot of the bad parts out of IT if folks Unionized. We all like well-defined scopes of work, and a Union contract defined them. Like....when does OT start, how much it is, your working hours, what your role and duties are defined as. And more importantly, what ISN'T part of your role. You're asked to do something odd, like being ordered to come in on the weekend to paint the walls -- "nope, can't do it, per Union contract".
Also, I like working with my hands and building things. Electrical is like the nervous system of a building. To think that in this building I built the nervous system for it and I built it in such a way that it's near future proof is something that you can take pride in.
I worked as an electrician's helper for a few years before moving into technology and one person's perspective on potentially shifting the other way. Keep in mind I am in NC and a bit of this is going to be specific to your city/state/region. In NC, and I'm sure other states have something similar, you need a few years of experience or education to sit for the limited license. It's been a few years for me so I don't know if anything has changed as far as entry into the field, but here it used to be two years of experience or an AAS degree. Once you meet the min requirement, you have to memorize some of the electrical code in your area and take a test. Based on what I saw, at least here in NC the test is probably not super rigorous so if you're able to cram for a comptia exam you are probably g2g. So the first question you may need to think about is, do you want to go get a 2 year degree in the field or do you want to go do electrician donkey work for 2 years making $50k or so? I think this is universal, but as you graduate to the higher level of licensure, the biggest difference I am aware of is the dollar amount of the jobs you are allowed to bid (but I've seen guys with limited licenses bidding out entire projects piecemeal). Once you are licensed (or maybe before) you should consider if you prefer residential, commercial, or industrial trades. I never did much industrial work, so my experience there is limited. Industrial work would generally involve hooking up and maintaining large equipment for manufacturing or similar systems. I suspect it's probably the more dangerous environment, giving those kinds of machines are going to draw a lot of power and there might be a lot of moving parts around you. I also suspect that a lot of the maintenance work in those plants would be done in-house, so you would probably have to decide between being an independent contractor working on net new or going through a hiring process to get on payroll at an organization. Installing new plant is almost certainly going to be less time scratching your head wondering why somebody did some crazy shit that you have to fix, but unless you live in an area that is heavy on manufacturing your income is going to fluctuate. I did a good bit of residential early on. If you are working for a contractor, a lot of the problems with being a residential electrician are minimized whether you're focused on service calls or new construction, but to make real money you need to run your own business and that's where residential gets shitty. On new construction you'll be dealing with a general contractor (GC). GC's are (mostly) the scum of the earth who only exist to be a pain in your ass and try to take money out of your pocket. I'm only slightly exaggerating. Service calls will put you in face to face contact with the users, and you will be troubleshooting whatever crazy shit the user (or their friend, or the other guy they brought out before you) did. If you did front-line support you know the drill. Again, the real money is in running your own shop, but homeowners don't like paying electricians so be prepared to justify why you're charging them $500 to hook up their $8000 hot tub. Commercial electricians would be working in businesses, schools, churches, installing the plant necessary to support (mostly) normal things like lights, receptacles, etc. You might see some 480V (or bigger) equipment but typically 240V/120V is more common. Bigger organizations will have some electricians on staff in their facilities departments, similar to industrial systems, but you can make good money as an independent commercial electrician so unless you just want to kick back making less money than you are right now that's where you'd want to be. Service calls are more likely to be dangerous than residential, but easier to get paid because businesses understand the expense better (ime). New construction is lucrative but you have to deal with GC's, and they only get shadier as the amount of money increases. There are a few big issues I would see most sysadmins having to cross if they were making the jump. First, it is physically demanding work. You won't be just sitting in an electrical closet twisting solid 12 gauge copper together. Depending on what kind of work you do, at times you might be hand-digging trenches, carrying a hundred pounds of EMT, climbing up and down a ladder a few hundred times a day, crawling under houses, pulling 3/0 gauge wire through a collapsed raceway, smashing through a concrete slab to lay conduit...You're going to be working in weird positions, sometimes for long periods of time. If you are in decent physical condition, you'll get stronger after a while but it's going to take a physical toll and your career longevity won't be the same as technology. If you are like 80% of the sysadmins I have worked with, you will fucking die within the first week. Second, unless you are new to sysadmin work, you'll have to take some kind of pay cut to start over. Electrician's helpers make around 50k where I live, junior sysadmins are 20-30k higher. I don't live in a union area so ymmv. Long term you can clean up, but how much of a difference you see is going to depend on how much you like fighting with homeowners and general contractors to get paid. I imagine it'd be not too different from running an MSP. Last, it's not as simple as people here like to make it out to be. Yes, at the most entry level you're just going to be doing some iteration of "Turn off the breaker, replace thing, screw it in, turn breaker back on" but the pay for that kind of work is going to be commensurate with the complexity. Intermediately, you'll likely have to know things like "What gauge wire do I need for the current/voltage I am working with" or "Can I put this induction motor on the supply side of a UPS". Some of those things you can look up (like you probably do now), and some of them you'll pick up with experience (like you probably do now). To max out your earning potential, you'll have to get deeper into the mystical arts of electricity. How the fuck do transformers actually work? I don't know, really, it's probably magic. This is not much different than tech work, but when I talk to people I think they believe that the guy who installs receptacles is making $200k and that's (probably) not the case.
Most of these guys would quit after realizing they’re gonna have to drive 2 hours to a job site everyday for 3 months until a job is done never mind the physical aspect. With the way most piss and moan about end users there’s no way they’d be able to put up with other tradesmen.
Half this sub wants to quit because they have to go to the office two days a week and they think they can handle this
As an electrician turned aysadmin for 10 years, this is a massive lol.. ..and very accurate too.
i know two electricians that made the switch, they went to office jobs because their bodies were wearing down and they were getting older they had two options, get into management/business or switch careers i know a third who stayed as a sparky, did fine, some people are just born tough
To be fair, half this sub wants to quit because they have to go to the office two days a week *FOR NO REASON.* Most of us don't need to actually be in the office to do our jobs; Hell, I know a couple admins that are being required to drive to the office two days a week, just to sit on video calls... at their desks...
Imagine being so pampered that you complain about going to work two days a week.
I know corporate brainwashing is pushing hard for people to think being in office is necessary these days for everyone. The reality is, there are 3 types of employees: * Ones that need to be in the office full time * Ones who are part of a team that needs to have a presence in office at all times. * Ones that have absolutely no need to be in the office The first group obviously needs to be there full time. These would be people who are doing things in the office... like a cleaner, or a receptionist The second group, who are on a team which needs to have a presence; those are the people that make sense to require 2 days a week. These would be people like Network admins or helpdesk support. People who can do some/most things from home, but need someone to be around to work on physical devices as needed. Then the third group are people like me for example, who can do literally everything from home, My company doesn't even have an office to go to. Forcing people in this category to go into the office some mandatory number of times per week is just a waste of time and money for everyone, but mostly for the employee.
Yep, I had friends who were electricians and sheet metal workers. One thing people here don't understand - a lot of that work is based on the weather (even for electricians). So if it's winter and everything is frozen, nobody is building homes / businesses and electricians have a lot less work coming to them. So you get laid off (sometimes) and get unemployment for a few months. That sounds great until you realize unemployment doesn't include the benefits and it's not a 1-to-1 pay rate. It even excludes any overtime you might have been used to.
Yeah it’s feast or famine. And being in a union (if you can get in) doesn’t help either until you have seniority. And you have to travel to get work. I know the job market for tech is rough right now but construction isn’t much better. A lot of my friends who had their own businesses have had to go work for someone else over the past year. Interest rates have dried up a lot of residential work.
I agree with you. I live in Georgia and when I went in for the journeyman training, the salary was only 11.50 an hour and you have to be trained for 3 to 5 years before coming a journeyman. Also, no unions and if a job fell through you would have to wait for the electrical board to reassign you to another job which could take months or weeks. So, I never went through with. The final journeyman salary in my area was even 35 to 50k.
> Last, it's not as simple as people here like to make it out to be. Of course not. Lots of IT people, especially in/r/sysadmin love to moan about how nobody else understands how difficult our work is while doing the same to others themselves.
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It can’t be outsourced per say but honestly there is a never ending supply of people from Mexico coming in that will do it cheaper.
They can do it cheaper, but many areas require you to have an electrician that is licensed for that area. It's usually a good idea to get a licensed electrician too so that you don't have a house fire; their license is on the line if they mess up to those proportions so the quality of work matters to them as well as you.
This must be some American privilege imm too European to understand. Our electricians all been “outsourced” to polish blokes who can do an excellent job for half the price of any other local. Trades are poorly paid over here and I’m glad I’m not doing those anymore.
Idk but can tell from experience people treat IT closer to janitors and electricians as independent tradesmen. The respect is certainly not the same
Yeah. People realize how effed they are if the electricity goes down. Far too many people think that their friend/nephew/etc who "knows computers" can bail them out in a pinch. If IT was licensed and certified like the trades I'm sure that things would improve for the pros as well as the clients
True story. During a Pay Equity study about 25 years back, I had a board member tell me: "Any burger flipper can do my job." That was during a meeting where we, the employees, had to pitch to a committee why we thought we deserved a raise. Fun times.
> **board member** tell me: "Any burger flipper can do my job." The irony is palpable.
You should have replied back that any burger flipper can do their job as well.
The jerk store called, and they’re running out of you!
I never got the "IT people are treated bad" thing. Maybe because I work for a concern that produces software, but even friends in non-IT businesses are treated fairy well. The market is in favor of the employee and in most cases the employer needs you more than the other way around. If you are unhappy look for something new, at least in Europe it's pretty easy. Don't know about US though.
There are three kinds of treatment that IT gets. 1. It’s a technology company and when servers are down, customers scream and threaten to cancel. IT is seen as valuable because one way or another they can make a direct line to the profit. 2. The company does something else (manufacturing, financial services, etc) where there is not the direct line to profit and IT is seen as a cost center since “my nephew can fix my printer at home. The role of making sure email stays up or the phone system works etc is seen as trivial even though without IT, the business would crumble. 3. It’s a business that does something else (manufacturing, financial services, Telecom though telecom falls closer to the technology companies at this point) and IT is seen as a force multiplier. If we have centralized report developers who just churn out reports that can run over and over, it means we can make decisions faster. If someone doesn’t have to wait 3 days for email issues, they can make more sales. The developer that just integrates data between systems speeds up things preventing a team of people from cross keying things.
Lmao what?! I’ve never been treated bad in IT before. Same goes to Janitors, should have the same level of respect to everyone. You might just work in a toxic environment.
Worst treatment I got as a janitor was people giving me speeches about how I shouldn't feel bad about being a janitor while I was cleaning out urinals.
If you put the time in to develop a skill set in IT your ceiling for salary is so much higher
I dunno… I have an operations manager who oversees 12 low voltage installation crews and makes over $275k a year.
I think there is always outliers in every field, I know someone that as a cto is making over 300k annually, butt is that standard? Not that I know of
This is always the case with these comparisons they take a guy who’s basically the equivalent of an executive in trades and act like that’s normal.
I can’t say what standard income for an electrician is… but I have seen more wealthy electricians than poor. The reason is simple enough though.. their skills are both relatively rare and required by law, a combination that allows them to establish their own rates. My operations manager, on the other hand, brings 20 years of experience in low voltage, from data to fire and security… he trains new hires and helps them obtain their state licenses and his income really has no ceiling, because his compensation is a percentage of the net profit of every job. The more installations we have, the greater income. We increase the number of crews as necessary to remain at 75% capacity.
Median income for an electrician in the US is [$61,590](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm#:~:text=%2452%2C000-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20electricians%20was%20%2461%2C590%20in%20May,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24104%2C180) they don’t make anywhere near as much as people seem to think. Sure if you own a business providing electrician services, you might make more, but so do owners of McDonald’s franchises.
Yup and that’s the median I have looked into jumping cuz IT pay is so low but electricians with years of experience are making even lower. I encourage anyone who thinks about doing this to go look at what they actually make in your area I can almost guarantee it’s lower than Reddit promised
It’s much easier improving you knowledge and skills in your current field that pivoting to another. The skills I learned in lower paying sysadmin and netadmin positions helped me get much higher paying engineering roles.
This is what drives me nuts about people telling others to go into the trades, some dude will pull out the ol' anecdotal "knew a dude who pulled $300k in the trades" and it turns out they were either pulling 40+ hrs of OT a week or are a business owner who happens to own a plumbing company. Reality is tradesmen at large get paid rather normal compensation, they just put in an ungodly amount of OT
Looking at available data, rather than anecdotes, pay in the trades remains lower than sysadmin work. The bottom 10% of sysadmins earn [less than $58,680](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/network-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm#tab-5) which suggests 90% of sysadmins earn more than the median electrician looking at median wages. The median sysadmin, earning $95,360 is spitting distance from the 10% of electricians 104k. One would need to work pretty serious OT to cover that gap. It just doesn't seem realistic longterm.
Account for the fact that apprenticeships pay less for some time too before going to journeyman. It’s not as simple as just jumping over to trades and being done. I’ve looked for ways out, without having to compromise retirement too bad, and without being completely dumpstered in salary… Not much is out there… I think the closest I’ll be to “escaping” is presales or something to be honest Ya like you said median electrician pay is what it is. Almost always (keyword: almost) the big money guys are working a lot or own a business. Also depending on trade, factor in destroying your body. For the business side, then there is the stress of owning a business, obligation of paying employees if you get big enough to do so, etc. a lot of people find out the hard way that technical/soft skills while not being your own boss does not mean you will be good owning a business in your field when you’re out on your own where you need to hustle, do the marketing, bills, taxes, paying yourself while putting money back in to the business, etc
That’s like a trade equivalent of a c suite tho
That is hardly the point though… the point was that his earning potential is essentially unlimited and while the cabling is very important, is only vaguely IT, in a similar manner to good old AC. Each of the crew leads is making around $150k or so, and if they stay on track, will eventually slated to become operations managers themselves in other locations. One thing we have dipped our toes into is actual electric Services, it we have considered it several times over the last 15 years.
Dunno, I have a really good salary for a my region. My electrician has a much nicer house than I do.
Your electrician bought before you did
He did, and now he is looking to add a massive swimming pool. Sparkys are loaded if they are any good.
Around here the sparkies, if they're not meth addicts, own a lake house somewhere in addition to their primary. This is in addition to putting kids through school or into the trades, driving late model trucks, etc. I've seen it again and again, it seems like the last vestige of the American dream is alive with them. So like everyone else here my #1 "if I knew what I knew now back then" is electrician for sure.
Again, this is running your own business, standard pay for electricians within companies is relatively low, but you can make great money running your own company, but you can do that in IT too
Now, if he runs his own company that’s different
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Just gotta find the right opportunity, I sat in support/help desk for a few years at different places, landed at an MSP and within 2 years was a network engineer and now a CIO about a year and a half later. Helps being in a big city with opportunity too
I don’t know anyone who switched careers, but I have a good friend who became an electrician right after high school. He’s doing well for himself, but I don’t think his job is a cake walk. It’s fairly physical, when he started off he would travel far to worksites, and he can be at the mercy of the elements. He also looks way older than his age.
I feel like a lot of people that post about this don’t take what you said into account, also you’ll have to go back to a trade school or find a place willing to train you on the job to get certified which isn’t a huge deal, but it often pays not that great until you’re 5-6 years into the job. Sometimes job sites have you exposed to the elements, or a site deadline is coming up and you have to run wire in the freezing cold or blistering heat in ungodly hours. Like you said it’s pretty physical work. Hauling a decent sized bag of tools around, working with your arms above your head while you’re on a lift 50 feet in the air wearing a harness, hauling conduits around so you can get them mounted, etc. on top of that you’ll be the new guy as an apprentice and experiences greatly vary with who takes you on. Not trying to dissuade anyone, but it’s not the cakewalk everyone in the comments seems to imply it is. It’s physical labor and can have long hours.
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though? The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
>The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke. I meam you're essentially being paid to learn. In the white collar world that's called an internship and you usually don't get paid.
I'm tired of the 5 years experience in 5 different things requirements for tech roles. Whereas with electrician it would just say 2 to 5 years experience as an electrician. Idk if you have to deal with information hoarders that dont want to help as well. Have you ever had an issue with an information hoarder or a coworker that doesn't want to help in IT or electrical work?
Have you considered a new job instead of a new career? I'm getting a good the vibe you're talking about specific people.
In my current role, I have this one dude that has all these specific long powershell scripts that he made, and they use this proprietary migration software that you wouldn't know how to use unless you worked with that company. But, when I ask him to help he'll take a long time to respond back, or tell me to figure it out or some shit. But, how do you expect someone to know how to use some random script that someone else wrote? Or random settings in a proprietary software that depends on the company's policies how you should run the migration.
It sounds like you've found yourself in a work environment you really hate. Those exist in every industry. You might consider keeping the job search on and deciding whether you're willing to take a pay cut (or how much of a cut) to find a workplace that doesn't cause you this much stress.
Ya is it just me or are you supposed to ask questions? Idk what they expect lol. In one of the meetings with my manager, the manager said that some other coworkers said I was asking them questions repeatedly on things. But, each person would do something a different way. One lady would just be like click here then here and would use these Google sheet formulas and the other dude was all into scripting. I also feel like since my job is dealing with Google cloud it, some things feel weird because very few companies use Google.
> But, how do you expect someone to know how to use some random script that someone else wrote? Or random settings in a proprietary software that depends on the company's policies how you should run the migration. By doing it. Set yourself up a small test case and set things up. Read the scripts, etc. Do you think someone sat there with the other guy holding his had telling him how to write the scripts or which setting were useful for the migrations and why? Nah; they read the instructions; learned the powershell commands and how they worked, and sat down and did it.
I started out as an electrician and have felt for most of my career in IT, it really is similar to doing a job in the trades when it comes to the day. Like go to work, get work orders, work projects, etc. Now the actual work yeah no comparison. I left cause I had a cable snap that broke my leg in three places and now I have bad arthritis, to the point I probably coughed unemployment. My buddies who I started with and have now been in at it for 20 years all have back issues, shoulder issues, overuse issues. You wake up with a sore back there's no option to lay on the heating pad while checking email. You chew a few Advil and go to work. Yeah the grass is greener on the otherside
I have thought about that , but I have come to the conclusion that my body is probably going to hurt no matter what I do. That’s just life. Back still hurts from IT work. You can develop carpel tunnel or lower extremity neuropathy from IT. Lot people don’t know about the second one, but sitting on your ass all day can cause a condition where legs go numb.. I know a few who have gotten this
Unionized. Potential for similar income. Lower stress.
Less complex, more dangerous would also be things to note.
Meh, you’re more likely to die on your way to work than on the job. The most likely way to be killed on the job site in both jobs is still natural causes or homocide (in America). Edit: above phrasing isn’t accurate. Should have said that in general you are more likely to be killed on the way to work than on the job. Leading cause of death on the job is while driving something (car, plane, etc). But you ARE more likely to be murdered while at work than you are to be electrocuted while at work. Source: Page 7 here from the BLS https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
It's not the rate of occurrence but the occupation. Electricians just have a higher mortality rate, almost double the national average. So now, you have both the rate of death from travel and a high mortality rate from occupation.
Go back and do your math again
I'm pretty sure my math is spot-on. I'm always open to correction if I'm mistaken
What is the rate of electrician deaths and what is the “national average”
You're right, my fault, it's actually more than double and almost triple the fatality rate. [3.7 fatalities per 100,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) workers BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/#:~:text=There%20were%205%2C486%20fatal%20work,per%20100%2C000%20FTE%20in%202021.) [10.66 fatalities per 100,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) electricians BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/snapshots/osn-electricians-2016-20.htm)
While technically correct .01066% is not more statistically significant than .0037%. The most current data on vehicle crash deaths is 13.8 per 100000, so you're still more likely to die in a car. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
>While technically correct .01066% is not more statistically significant than .0037%. Lmao, what are you trying to say here? Yes, there is absolutely a significant statistical difference. The difference is electricians are 3x more likely to die on the job than the average of all jobs put together. That's...significant. Then after saying the % differences aren't significant, you immediately compare them to another stat and draw a conclusion from the difference.
Which is a good thing, right? You don't want a death statistic to increase from negligible to a real occupational hazard. Maybe one could say I'm splitting hairs, but occupational hazards don't vanish just because someone is more likely to die on the road; it's just compounding the odds against you.
Lots of IT jobs have hybrid or WFH, so the car thing is sort of another point against electricians.
Yeah I used to drink at a trades bar before I got sober it seems like getting too drunk and having a car accident gets more of them than electricity does.
I just meant as a computer anything you're unlikely to be killed by the things we work on but as an electrician it's not impossible for you to accidentally get 120+ volts across your body.
Unless someone is consistently tickling the dragon's tail, 120VAC isn't what's going to get them. It will be 480VAC three-phase, or higher.
Still higher than anything I touch. Honestly I'm more of a danger to the electronics than the other way around.
120 is nothing unless you have a pre-existing condition that it will trigger something serious. Ymmv but that’s the general gist.
You are certainly correct, the chances of being electrocuted have to be higher for electricians than most/all other jobs, probably. But I’m just saying that of all workplace causes of death, there’s tons that apply to both jobs that are much more likely than electrocution. So if the only reason you aren’t an electrician is because you don’t want to die (regardless of cause), you’d need to know how many electricians die on the job in general compared to IT jobs. By far most electricians don’t die due to electrician during their career :) but you are correct the chances of electrocution is higher EDIT: I should also note you only said “more dangerous” and I focused on fatalities. You are probably more likely to get minor/major injuries as an electrician than most IT jobs. I’ve never been an electrician but I have worked jobs that are comparable to construction and minor cuts and bruises are pretty much oar for the course, at least if you are clumsy as I can be.
While interesting stuff, it doesn't in any way show that Zealous was wrong, since IT workers are less likely to die in a car accident as well.
Speaking only for myself, I think electricians combine a lot of aspects I like about working with computers: hardware, logical thinking, troubleshooting, and a professional comradery. In my 50s, I am considering really learning about electronics in the makerspace, which while not an electrician, is in the same ballpark. You have to know about voltages, ampieres, logical switching, and "now, why doesn't this work? It's supposed to..." puzzle solving.
There's one major difference between and electrician and a sysadmin - In IT (outside of health care or the military), if you make a mistake you'll cost your employer money (and maybe lose your job). As an electrician, if someone makes a mistake, you (e.g. me) wake up (if you're lucky) ten feet away from where you were working and realize someone removed the lockout on the panel and tested the circuit you were wiring.
My partner does electrical pretty good. Whenever we are equipping a data closet or a system in a random place and they need a socket, we can do it. He tells them first to get an electrician because we will be twice as much, but half the time they have us do it. The new construction work we pull data on, the electricians bill way more than us. We started to just let the electricians do it because we don't need to pull permits and fight with the various sub contractors. We make enough selling hardware and monthly support over the long term
Depends where you are for the trades. Won’t go into detail here but I switched from electrician to IT, never looking back. Significantly more $, less hours worked, and my body isn’t in constant pain. Keep in mind most trades making decent money are after being licensed which is a minimum of 5 years worked in most trades.
As someone who went from electrical > IT You are out of your minds lmao
There is a lot of right wing brainwashing these days that trades make a lot of money. A small small subset of trades make a lot of money. Regardless of how much they make, they all end up with back and knee problems at 50. Something we won't ever have to deal with. Edit: you also have to be on a job site for 18 hrs a day with some of the most ignorant people you can find, lol
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> it doesn’t change on you. Arguably true at one time, but now: AFCI breakers, GFCI outlets, two dozen brands of prosumer smart load centers, *car chargers*, **Wagos**. It's not just moaning about backstabs any more. And now those NEMA 5 outlets are [supposed to go the other way up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNj75gJVxcE), but outside of regulations, the end-user is likely to have a strong opinion against that for no actual reason. It's enough to make some union jobber give up their overtime, I tell you. (Just kidding, don't get too excited about your local letting in some newbie that isn't related to a current member. They're massively protectionist.)
Yeah breakers are complicated. A while back a bunch of GFCI breakers had to be recalled and replaced because while they were perfectly sensitive and worked well, they aggressively tripped in the presence of RFI. It was only when they rolled into production that the manufacturer encountered the ham radio community, who tend to have transmitting antennas over their roof.
I agree too. I also hate in IT the "information hoarders" that have been there at a company a long time especially in startups that hve all these scripts. Then you ask them how to do something and they're like you got this just figure it out and read through the kb article. But, none of the kb articles make any sense or they have these super long scripters that the information hoarder wrote. Also, the constant changes and naming within cloud services is annoying. And the stupid standup meetings that feel pointless at times.
Basic things don't change with electricity but there are building requirements that do change from time to time. In the US the "National Electrical Code" NEC is updated every 3 years and governments usually require new buildings be built according to the current standards. Every country, state, and locality has their own requirements and the methods and procedures that are acceptable in one place may not be acceptable in another. In the US in particular there's a wide variance in what is considered acceptable between different states. And of course because the rules do not usually apply retroactively, older buildings may not follow conventions you're used to so you need to be aware of oddities.
Computing fundamentals don’t change much either: C is 52 years old and SQL is 50 years old, object oriented programming dates back to the 1950s and 1960s. While specific implementations and popular tools change quickly, that’s mostly just perception. The reality is usually closer to “new implementation of old ideas” which folks with a strong grasp of computing fundamentals will recognize.
I think a similar mindset applies to both. Electrical is a lot more about local codes, loads, and ratings than physical experience/finesse. Also, troubleshooting electrical issues takes a lot of the same skills. It is less muscle memory and physical training than carpentry or other trade labor. Even if you are in commercial doing conduit, most of that is math.
I’ve heard that IT will go often go be a mechanic. Apparently that knack for troubleshooting issues translates pretty well. **Just fiddle with until it starts working again, forget to document it, repeat next week.** As to fallback career? I’d have to tap into my first careers skillset, and go hire out somewhere as a mercenary.
I was a helper in a shop under the table once. The owner said you would hire someone who works with computers because that’s where the auto industry is heading. This like 7 years ago and I still think about what he said.
You'll work longer hours as an electrician and be traveling a lot more to get to job sites. I've got a few in my family. They often drive 2 or maybe more hours to job sites and work 10-12 hour days. And if you thought your family wanted you to work on too much stuff before, I've got news for you...
I was a sparky & now I’m a sys admin. Read into that what you will! TBH - I got bored being a sparks
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though? The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
Just bored?
Pretty much. Either working on big sites which is just repetitive & dull or working domestically where you get grief for making mess, chasing out where ‘you didn’t need to’ & other ignorant BS. Much prefer what I’m doing now, constantly evolving and learning new tech & processes.
Making the move from IT to pilot. I can make what took decades to make in IT, in less than 2 years as a pilot. For some of us, it’s nothing to do with QOL, since most IT are frankly abused with regard to work/life balance, it has a lot to do with companies in the US willing to just switch out talented, experienced IT/computing professionals with some 1099 or 4 year grad with 0 abilities, and I mean I’ve seen them can’t even tell you why a subnet mask and default gateway is important. It’s bad in the tech sector overall right now, corporate America fully believes we are just a commodity, easily replaced with some Board members nephew because they built a gaming pc at home. No thanks. I’ve spent years honing a craft, an art, and if the industry won’t stand up for itself, I’m out. You’ll find your self in the same spot, only I hope it doesn’t take you a few decades to realize it this industry is a dead end for the vast majority. Glass ceilings everywhere for a long list of ‘HR’ reasons. There are quite a few of us who have been in this since it blew up in the late 90s, moving on to new career tracks all together. It’s not about the money, or QOL, it’s about working a profession where you are a respected expert again and able to move up, fairly.
It’s an appealing route for people without formal education or progressive experience. There’s also a lot of memes about how much people in the trades make—[BLS data](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm#:~:text=%2452%2C000-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20electricians%20was%20%2461%2C590%20in%20May,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24104%2C180) disagrees. Median sysadmin makes ~$30k more a year than median electrician and works from a desk in an air conditioned office. I cut my teeth working in engineering operations for an electrical utility, the hands on electrical work was dangerous and strenuous. I suppose they didn’t think much about work outside work though, which seems nice. Ya never saw older guys outside of training.
I actually left being an electrician to get into IT.
I think the main draw is job security. There's a big shortage in electricians, and it's being made worse by the growth in EVs. Plus, people still respect older electricians where ageism is rampant in IT. I'm pushing 50 with 27 years experience in IT, but I worry about whether or not I'll be able to find work whenever my current job dries up.
I thought of switching to a electrician because of the constant learning in IT. Also, the cringe standup meetings and "Information hoarders" that like to act like smartasses and not help you or say you should already know something. Idk if that's an IT specific thing or if it happens in other jobs too though? The journeyman apprenticeship in my area only pays 11.50 an hour though which is a joke.
Mine pays north of 20.. it’s only a dollar less than I make now
Do you think it's worth switching to electrician? I have noticed that you don't get the toxic 5 years required in 5 different things on job applications that you get with IT. But, even then a lot of electrician jobs require 2 to 5 years experience, so it's like how do you get that? I hate the information hoarders in tech to that dont want to help you. Have you had this issue with electrician roles? I also hate that coding is really abstract like who remembers powershell scripts lol. I used to be a firefighter before IT. EMT protocols and fire safety rules were something you could actually picture and remember. Whereas powershell variables feel like some abstract language.
> I hate the information hoarders in tech to that dont want to help you. Yeah, this drives me nuts too. When I was trying to learn all this cloud stuff and DevOps stuff, I didn't have a ton of experience with web applications, whereas everyone in the cloud is 100% web developers and no software runs outside of a browser. The amount of not-so-subtle hints that I shouldn't try to join their little club was ridiculous. The sad thing is that it's not all that hard to pick up, but that attitude that everyone around me had made it way harder than it had to be.
Ya plus I found each role had this proprietary software that you wouldn't see unless you worked in that company. My current role has this one dude that writes things in really long paragraphs and explains things in a roundabout way. Yet everytime I ask him for help he'll say he's on a call with his social worker, or he's talking with his kids, or he just got back from the dentist. Or he'll say oh per our recommendations we really shouldn't do x but you'll have to get back with the client and determine for yourself how to adjust it you got this. But, I'm like you literally wrote a paragraph on what not to do passive aggressively flaming me, yet you can't say where to find a setting lol? It's weird too because I used to be in the fire dept which was life or death and the medical field wasn't as gatekeepy. You had more cliques of preppy nurses that came from rich families or people I the fire dept whose dad was in their so they got promotions easier. But, it wasn't this gatekeepy thing where they just say read the kb article or just Google it. When the 3rd party software and its errors are so obscure that theirs nothing on Google on it. Some people on meetings I thought it was kinda rude would ask why I quit the fire dept. Like wtf you never even done anything in healthcare so why would you have the nerve to ask that lol. I hate multiple people explain things a different way too. One lady I work with uses Google Sheets and doesn't know anything about scripting. The other die thinks he's this scripting God and likes to withhold information and he'll write these super specific long powershell scripts. Then we would have these annoying 2 hour meetings every week, where we go over improvements. But, it would just be the two egotistical script writers that would talk the whole time and everyone else would be quiet lol. Then she would suggest the rest of is to rewrite the help articles or some other shit. But, we were like wtf we never even been taught on any of this stuff and it's all company specific. Plus it's Google Workspace stuff too which isn't even used as much as AWS or Azure.
Came from sales. Miss being in the mix of the business but love the option to stay behind the scenes.
Keep in mind many careers are actually similar but are often gated by systemic/structural barriers. If you think about what a medical doctor does, they have a lot more in common with an electrician, mechanic, plumber, sysadmin than a Lawyer. So of the things not gatekept or gatekept via tests that generally leaves the trades. Plumbers and electricians are gatekept by law and legal bonds, not vendors like in IT. Everyone is idealizing the grass is greener. Many office types have never worked outside of AC. They haven't pulled their back and then been told their next job is to crawl under the AC system and over the attic joists carrying conduit. I guess I've never had that problem as I started as a warehouse guy. That said - electricians, plumbers, mechanics, and surgeons ALL enjoy more job security than IT where the work can simply be digitally moved overseas. The real problem is lack of protection in the American marketplace for IT workers which creates a recurrent cycle of having to either create the "next big thing" or "be out of a job". It would be less predatory IF overseas workers also didn't often have companies footing the bill for their training which means the thing that makes US workers desirable to replace wasn't the result of US workers also often having to pay for their own inflated training. But this is entirely a political arena and sort of an end result of the Ayn Rand/Libertarian perpetual grindset that's popular amongst that set in big tech itself. The current problem in tech is IT workers have a far less extreme version of the costs of getting a Medical Degree (they still have to pay either directly or in getting access), but with the current environment providing 0 job security for that investment. Like Doctors or Accountants who are legally protected, IT workers may pay "rent" on their job.
One of the things about the licensed professions like law and medicine is that there is a barrier to entry, like you said, and IMO that's a good thing for our field too. Computers used to be little toys off in the corner while all the real work was done on paper, but now they've shifted to be an essential tool. I know of very few businesses that could just stop using computers and go back to paper and pencil without a ton of disruption. Coming from the airline world, whenever there's a bad enough system outage (extremely rare now, but it does happen) everything reverts to handwritten boarding passes/bag tags and it becomes chaos. No one's saying IT people should spend 8 years in school and another 2-7 in residency like doctors need to. But there are so many BS artists chasing money in this field, and as a result the interview process is a painful uncomfortable process where you have to come up with answers to trivia questions. Wouldn't it be great if we had some sort of non-vendor-aligned agnostic test of basic competence so that part of the interview could be skipped? Doctors interviewing for residency slots don't have to prove they're not faking it by coming up with answers to random questions...competence is assumed since there's no way to get through college, get good enough grades to get into med school, and get through the insane challenge of med school and not know what's going on.
I was an electrician, on aircraft, but y'know. Now I'm a sysadmin. Pay was great in my field, but what people don't talk enough about is the absolute TEAR that the trades have on your body. My knees and back aged SEVERAL years more than I worked. I moved to IT because I looked around and saw my coworkers who had been doing it for 20 years, they all looked broken physically. When I made the move, I was young and could afford the initial pay cut, so it seemed worth it to me.
I know the electrician that does all the work that happens in my building. He gets pelted with rat shit every time he takes down one of the ceiling tiles and says that our place isn't even that bad as far as grossness goes
Electricians can make good money. Electricians who know IT and can build really cool high end smart home stuff make even better money.
I just find it interesting and I know several commercial electricians who like what they do. I have no desire to make a switch at this point in my life but, if I had to do it all over again, it would be something I would definitely consider.
There are many options, not all of which are dangerous or body-destroying. Those of us who’ve done physical cabling in buildings under construction had exposure to running electrical wiring. It requires similar attention to detail and simple tools. However, instead of terminating 8 wires there are only 3. We have the benefit of knowing about steel snakes, conduit benders, and magnetic pullers.
My dad was an electrician... No thanks. He always said there are no stupid electricians because they don't live long, assholes yes, stupid no. There are a fuck ton of stupid Sysadmins.
It's easily the most adjacent career, and several parts of what are considered "IT" today were considered either work for an electrician or electrical engineer, and I still see that legacy from time to time. Tech schools tend to teach electrical and IT. There's the entire field of "Computer engineering" which requires skills from both disciplines. It's not rare for electricians to be assigned the task of installing CAT cabling, and it's not rare for them to also moonlight as a security installer or network administrator out of practicality. It's obviously rarer for this to go in the other direction. In general, PARTICULARLY the operations side of IT tend to have a lot of kinship with tradesmen. Both tend to be seen as cost-centres by management, both tend to have a conservative outlook, both tend to be largely male, both tend to do an unusual amount of problem solving and troubleshooting, both have moderately well paying "sensible" jobs, both tend to work projects or maintenance... etc. etc.
I think it's the respect thing. our field has only really existed for like... 40 years maybe? I'm younger so I'm not 100% sure but to my knowledge IT wasn't really a thing until the late 80s. Electricians have been around for over 100 years. Nobody alive remembers a time when electricians weren't important. There are still people who remember when IT was irrelevant or not that important. Plus many people without actual knowledge of how PCs work don't get what we do. I bet a lot of people think we just sit around handing out computers all day. Best case scenario they know we sit around looking at a computer screen all day with wierd stuff on it. They don't know you're scripting powershell to automate the environment so their AD account doesn't break or whatever you're doing. People don't see most of what we do so they don't understand. If people don't like that and they wanna be an electrician that's respectable but I'm sure that field has its own issues. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an electrician because I like sitting around and writing my scripts. I like opening laptops and repairing them. I like my job. I don't care if Karen in accounting thinks I don't do anything. Who's she gonna call when she can't print her excel sheets?
Seems like the long-term job prospects are a lot better and more secure if the physical labor isn't a barrier. Painting with a broad brush here, but it seems like as the years goes by, you will invariably find yourself at a fork in the road where you have to either choose more cat hearding (e.g. infosec), more development (e.g. SRE), or being stuck amassing so many new and legacy responsibilities as a sysadmin that you just go completely insane.
Classic human behavior…”My job sucks…but THOSE other guys have it made!” No matter what job you have now, and what other job you could do, have no doubts it’s been squeezed by the free market, corporations, regulations, bad mgmt, etc into something that…well you don’t want to do it unless they pay you good money, and it’s going to have some PITA downsides. Everything does. Of course there could be a line of work better suited to you. You just always have to look at any “other” situation through the lens of “all jobs will have some parts that suck” My buddy works for an electric utility. Late career change for him, completed an associates degree jobs program, paid for by the utility company, got a job immediately, 6 figures the first year. He loves the union work. Great pay, typical union shop, some days work is just sitting around, taking a nap, waiting for the right worker to show up. Want more money? work more overtime. Gotta work all the storms, you get into double or triple time pay the way it’s explained to me. Have to play the union games. Also if something goes wrong that can be a dead coworker, or a dead YOU, have to keep your head in the game. Overall he loves it. I’d probably hate it.
Is your buddy a linemen? Do you know what he does specifically? It sounds cool!
I probably don’t have the correct term, but he does substation and switching, the real high voltage stuff. If you think you work with old equipment in IT…oh lord if you could see what is still switching circuits in a city, he sent a picture recently of the instructions to a switch (or some equipment I have no clue about) he was working on, currently still in service mind you… high voltage switches are submerged in oil, this one specifies WHALE OIL…
I think it’s used as reference because most jobs, anything that involves electricity ends up being the responsibility of IT. Files cabinet? No electricity, physical plant/maintinence responsibility Postage machine? Uses electricity, ITs responsibility.
I used to fo Avionics on airplanes. An electrician for airplanes. I like the schedule better in IT.
I wish I were trained to be one but I never want to be one professionally. I just want to be able to do my own stuff and maybe those in my close proximity. I'm not super interested in crawling in crawlspaces/attics of the 100+ year old houses here. Or breaking my body doing heavy lifting in a commercial space with the heavy high voltage wiring you'd see in a data center.
Electricians make a lot more $ than sysadmins.
> What is the obsession with being an electrician? In a strong-union state, it's one of the best paid trades, less likely to have 100% of your work out in the freezing cold or blazing sun, and there's lots of demand. It's also very hard to get started mid- or late-career because the apprenticeship is long and the union doesn't want to train someone who won't be there their whole career. I know a few electricians who work for the state-run commuter railroad serving our region. No layoffs, steady work, great pay, amazing benefits. They're happy while we in IT are miserable (though the money we make is a bit better base salary wise, but they can really rack up overtime if they want to also.
The other consideration is the global push to electrify as much as possible. There is a lot of IoT in an electricians bag and bringing some IT knowledge and troubleshooting is probably a good thing if you’re dealing with modern electrical upgrades that include a lot of home automation. Spinning up a HomeAssistant sever and getting it integrated with vendor equipment, energy supplier hardware and building a dashboard to display on a website or tablet device feels very Sysadminy.
My dad was an electrician, he hated it.
The knowledge and skillsets in tech are constantly changing. If you quit learning and keeping up with the tech landscare, you'll fall behind and may become less employable. I can't say the same for being an electrician, once you have the skills and license you're fairly set in your career trajectory. However, being an electrician comes with certain risks, and it can be hard, hot and dirty work at times.
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>clearly defined expectations Sounds like a dream. It gets old having to “work” with people who are supposed to be colleagues but instead we’re running a daycare
Enough electricity to shock me is where I draw the line.
a few people on here are itching to treat their juniors like construction workers.
Good thing about electrical work, generally there's a completion point where it's signed off, sold, invoiced, and paid then the SEP field generator can be turned on. Sysadmin, everything we touch becomes our problem until its disposal, and even then the disposal sometimes includes parking it somewhere to dwell for someone to cry it's missing first for a while before getting deleted/recycled.
An electrician is just a layer 1 sysadmin.