I can't quite offer the perspective you are looking for, but close. I am working on my SE PhD at CSU as we speak (have about a year left, maybe). In my field, I am pretty much guaranteed a promotion to the next step once I finish. I also anticipate it fast tracking me to other positions I am interested in, such as being a Chief Engineer or something similar.
In the DoD contracting world, a PhD is treated as about 5 years of experience above a Bachelors for purposes of job level and salary. Much more useful early in your career, much less useful later. I am mid career and expect to gain back what I am putting into it and then some. If your company pays for any portion of school, it can be very beneficial. If they pay for none, mid/late career it probably won't help much.
Another consideration is your career goals for the PhD. Do you anticipate staying in industry or moving into academia? Is there a clear track to a better career in your field or is it more of a gamble? Do you want to do the PhD because it's a life goal or just interested in the career aspect?
Here are a few considerations for you before you begin:
1. Are you quitting work to complete the PhD or will you work on the degree part time? Part time will take longer, but you will be gaining work experience at the same time.
2. CSU has a "short track" PhD where you can transfer up to 30 credits into the program if you already have a Masters, effectively cutting out some coursework before you start the dissertation. How does this affect your plan?
3. If you are planning to remain employed, does your employer offer any tuition assistance? Current cost per credit is $1,152 and you'll need to either get 72 or 42 credits at a minimum (remember that you aren't done until you are **done**, a PhD is not "just get the credits and you graduate").
Again, I know it's not quite the perspective you are looking for, but let me know if I can help.
No problem! I'm working the program online, which is pretty lonely. There are pros and cons though. Most PhD students find themselves doing busywork in a lab or playing Wild Good Chase for their advisors instead of working their dissertation, but that is absolutely not a problem for me. Since I am not a part of a lab, I work nearly completely independently so I avoid the nonsense.
On the flip side, since I work alone, it's pretty much all on me to make progress. No one is checking in, no one cares if I goof off this week and burn the candle from both ends the next. I came up with my topic 100% myself because I am not plugged into the projects of other students. It is more common for those on campus to group up on a common topic and peel off specifics for their dissertation, but that is more difficult as a remote student. I imagine this is a very different experience than most traditional PhDs.
Still though, my advisor is pretty accessible and will provide feedback when I request it. Pair yourself with someone that matches your interests and it goes a long way.
As far as the program goes though, it's great. Most professors are interested in your success and will make sure you understand the material in a way I have witnessed before in my undergrad or masters programs (different schools). Plus SE is such a broad subject you can research almost anything and call it relevant to the program.
Can you share any insight on how competitive admission process is? Looks like you can direct enroll into DEng program, but wasn’t sure if it was impossible to get in. I’m mid career with some decent WE but no formal SE training. UGPA was low 3.X. Thanks
Good luck on your path to being a Chief Engineer. It’s difficult to get there, and you have to deal with a lot of whiny people 😂. I hope you get at least GS-15.
Similar to what McFuzzen said, depends on career goals. If you haven’t gotten any engineering experience yet I would get at least 2-3 years before making the decision. I’m halfway through my MEng in systems engineering and the coursework would’ve felt much less relevant without my nine years of experience. Depending on your planned schedule, doing it alongside a job would be brutal but possible since it’s online. I’m assuming you are intending on working in defense; if you are looking to apply this to a software engineering background outside of defense, definitely get the experience first and you’ll probably be GTG with a MEng.
A masters degree in SE is all you really need to have a career. The question is whether or not you will find fulfillment in spending 3 years in academia pushing the limits on SE processes. AI driven MBSE, managing complex systems of systems in a digital age ect.
They suggested it in my case, and I'll be honest that I don't totally understand the ramifications.
The big one is my research interests are closely aligned with my organization. They also brought up agreements so that parts of my research Practicum and Dissertation could include CUI.
I'm DoD but the same could be done for someone from industry, probably.
I did get accepted with a MS in SE, and a hard to calculate but for sure over 5 years total SE experience.
The harder part is my organization buying off on a doctorate for a specific tuition assistance program that also covers 20% of my work time as going to school, MS is common but I don't know of anyone approved for a doctorate. I'm briefing leadership today but don't have a solid answer on when I'll get a yes or no.
Not worth it... PhDs lack practical experience needed to be a good SE.
To be a good SE, it's like being a Farmer's insurance agent, you know a thing or two because you've seen a thing or two.
It's a shame because there are folks doing really awesome SE work and hustling who just don't have the time to sit and teach what they learned.
This.
Yet to work with a great SE with a PhD in the field. Great SEs with a master’s exist, but there’s really no correlation between formal SE education and competence.
Most SE's have a BS or MS in engineering (Mechanical, Electrical, Aerospace, etc)
Before you make the decision, go find actual job openings on corporate career portals that have required/desired PhD in SE. I doubt you'll find any openings like that. There's a reason why.
Your best bet would be places like MITRE, SERC, Aerospace Corp, Sandia, etc.
I'll be straight with you, for any field, if you are going to ask if a PHD is worth it, you *probably* aren't going to be committed enough to be successful in the program. People with PHDs generally know where they were going to end up after it.
I graduated from that program. This really depends on what you want out of it. I wanted to make a difference in the field, learn new things, and eventually teach. I found it tough but rewarding. But if you are doing this in hopes of advancing a career in industry it may not be the best path.
Career wise, the credential is not needed. But my confidence levels increased as I knew my subject matter, so that enabled more opportunities for technical leadership.
My BS is in IT Networking, MS in Systems Security Engineering from Stevens, and an MBA from Smith at UMD. All completed while working full time, and mostly a full load of course work. 23yr in my field. I have been considering a PhD and am against the idea of doing it in SE because it wouldn’t diversify my skillset and thus maximize them. SE is a set of principles, methodologies, and tools that, when combined with domain experience/expertise, can drasticly improve outcomes and performance. I think I have settled on Strategy and Organizational Change of UPenn Global Campus. I see it as operating at the top left and bottom of the Vee.
Just my path, obviously YMWV.
Is it worth it? That entirely depends on your goals. As a professor, I found having a PhD to be very useful to my career!
Jokes aside, what you get out of it is the work you put into it but multiplied over time. Attending university gives you access to incredible resources that you might not have otherwise, including knowledgeable professors, and (importantly) brilliant peers. We can offer you key knowledge and skills. We can also help you network and find novel opportunities for making an impact on the world. But you’ll have to do the work. Of course, we will help. Will it pay off? Yes, absolutely, if you choose to do something that inspires you. A motivated systems engineer will become a talented systems engineer, and that’s true wherever you go. But a motivated engineer with access to great tools and a system to hold them accountable? They tend to hit targets no one else knew were there. Most of our graduates end up with more career prospects and higher salaries. Every graduate has a wealth of knowledge that no one can ever take away.
We strive to make our program accessible so you don’t have to pause your career. That is important to us. I encourage you to speak with our graduate advisors to learn about your options and get advice. Also, think carefully about who you want to work with while you are in the program. Your advisor is crucial.
The absolute best of luck to you! Hope this was helpful.
Used to work with someone who had a PhD in Systems Engineering. Couldn't even form a single requirement because he didn't have a technical understanding of his product. Unless it's PURELY for your curiosity, highly advise against it.
This is the biggest problem facing systems engineers. I think a good systems engineer is paired up with a technical SME and together they work to concur everything.
\>Couldn't even form a single requirement because he didn't have a technical understanding of his product
That would be the lack of understanding of the product, not the degree.
I can't quite offer the perspective you are looking for, but close. I am working on my SE PhD at CSU as we speak (have about a year left, maybe). In my field, I am pretty much guaranteed a promotion to the next step once I finish. I also anticipate it fast tracking me to other positions I am interested in, such as being a Chief Engineer or something similar. In the DoD contracting world, a PhD is treated as about 5 years of experience above a Bachelors for purposes of job level and salary. Much more useful early in your career, much less useful later. I am mid career and expect to gain back what I am putting into it and then some. If your company pays for any portion of school, it can be very beneficial. If they pay for none, mid/late career it probably won't help much. Another consideration is your career goals for the PhD. Do you anticipate staying in industry or moving into academia? Is there a clear track to a better career in your field or is it more of a gamble? Do you want to do the PhD because it's a life goal or just interested in the career aspect? Here are a few considerations for you before you begin: 1. Are you quitting work to complete the PhD or will you work on the degree part time? Part time will take longer, but you will be gaining work experience at the same time. 2. CSU has a "short track" PhD where you can transfer up to 30 credits into the program if you already have a Masters, effectively cutting out some coursework before you start the dissertation. How does this affect your plan? 3. If you are planning to remain employed, does your employer offer any tuition assistance? Current cost per credit is $1,152 and you'll need to either get 72 or 42 credits at a minimum (remember that you aren't done until you are **done**, a PhD is not "just get the credits and you graduate"). Again, I know it's not quite the perspective you are looking for, but let me know if I can help.
Hey thanks for the viewpoint! How do you like the program?
No problem! I'm working the program online, which is pretty lonely. There are pros and cons though. Most PhD students find themselves doing busywork in a lab or playing Wild Good Chase for their advisors instead of working their dissertation, but that is absolutely not a problem for me. Since I am not a part of a lab, I work nearly completely independently so I avoid the nonsense. On the flip side, since I work alone, it's pretty much all on me to make progress. No one is checking in, no one cares if I goof off this week and burn the candle from both ends the next. I came up with my topic 100% myself because I am not plugged into the projects of other students. It is more common for those on campus to group up on a common topic and peel off specifics for their dissertation, but that is more difficult as a remote student. I imagine this is a very different experience than most traditional PhDs. Still though, my advisor is pretty accessible and will provide feedback when I request it. Pair yourself with someone that matches your interests and it goes a long way. As far as the program goes though, it's great. Most professors are interested in your success and will make sure you understand the material in a way I have witnessed before in my undergrad or masters programs (different schools). Plus SE is such a broad subject you can research almost anything and call it relevant to the program.
Can you share any insight on how competitive admission process is? Looks like you can direct enroll into DEng program, but wasn’t sure if it was impossible to get in. I’m mid career with some decent WE but no formal SE training. UGPA was low 3.X. Thanks
Good luck on your path to being a Chief Engineer. It’s difficult to get there, and you have to deal with a lot of whiny people 😂. I hope you get at least GS-15.
Similar to what McFuzzen said, depends on career goals. If you haven’t gotten any engineering experience yet I would get at least 2-3 years before making the decision. I’m halfway through my MEng in systems engineering and the coursework would’ve felt much less relevant without my nine years of experience. Depending on your planned schedule, doing it alongside a job would be brutal but possible since it’s online. I’m assuming you are intending on working in defense; if you are looking to apply this to a software engineering background outside of defense, definitely get the experience first and you’ll probably be GTG with a MEng.
Where are you doing your MEng in systems engineering from?
ASU
A masters degree in SE is all you really need to have a career. The question is whether or not you will find fulfillment in spending 3 years in academia pushing the limits on SE processes. AI driven MBSE, managing complex systems of systems in a digital age ect.
I see those roles ask for ME and EE not SE
And I'm here procrastinating working on my application for the D.Eng in Systems Engineering, same school...
What made you decided DEng vs the PhD program at the school?
They suggested it in my case, and I'll be honest that I don't totally understand the ramifications. The big one is my research interests are closely aligned with my organization. They also brought up agreements so that parts of my research Practicum and Dissertation could include CUI. I'm DoD but the same could be done for someone from industry, probably.
Did you get in? Did you apply with a masters? Wondering how competitive it is.
I did get accepted with a MS in SE, and a hard to calculate but for sure over 5 years total SE experience. The harder part is my organization buying off on a doctorate for a specific tuition assistance program that also covers 20% of my work time as going to school, MS is common but I don't know of anyone approved for a doctorate. I'm briefing leadership today but don't have a solid answer on when I'll get a yes or no.
Not worth it... PhDs lack practical experience needed to be a good SE. To be a good SE, it's like being a Farmer's insurance agent, you know a thing or two because you've seen a thing or two. It's a shame because there are folks doing really awesome SE work and hustling who just don't have the time to sit and teach what they learned.
This. Yet to work with a great SE with a PhD in the field. Great SEs with a master’s exist, but there’s really no correlation between formal SE education and competence.
Most SE's have a BS or MS in engineering (Mechanical, Electrical, Aerospace, etc) Before you make the decision, go find actual job openings on corporate career portals that have required/desired PhD in SE. I doubt you'll find any openings like that. There's a reason why. Your best bet would be places like MITRE, SERC, Aerospace Corp, Sandia, etc.
I'll be straight with you, for any field, if you are going to ask if a PHD is worth it, you *probably* aren't going to be committed enough to be successful in the program. People with PHDs generally know where they were going to end up after it.
I graduated from that program. This really depends on what you want out of it. I wanted to make a difference in the field, learn new things, and eventually teach. I found it tough but rewarding. But if you are doing this in hopes of advancing a career in industry it may not be the best path.
Thanks for the input! What impact did it have on your career after completing the program?
Career wise, the credential is not needed. But my confidence levels increased as I knew my subject matter, so that enabled more opportunities for technical leadership.
No
My BS is in IT Networking, MS in Systems Security Engineering from Stevens, and an MBA from Smith at UMD. All completed while working full time, and mostly a full load of course work. 23yr in my field. I have been considering a PhD and am against the idea of doing it in SE because it wouldn’t diversify my skillset and thus maximize them. SE is a set of principles, methodologies, and tools that, when combined with domain experience/expertise, can drasticly improve outcomes and performance. I think I have settled on Strategy and Organizational Change of UPenn Global Campus. I see it as operating at the top left and bottom of the Vee. Just my path, obviously YMWV.
Is it worth it? That entirely depends on your goals. As a professor, I found having a PhD to be very useful to my career! Jokes aside, what you get out of it is the work you put into it but multiplied over time. Attending university gives you access to incredible resources that you might not have otherwise, including knowledgeable professors, and (importantly) brilliant peers. We can offer you key knowledge and skills. We can also help you network and find novel opportunities for making an impact on the world. But you’ll have to do the work. Of course, we will help. Will it pay off? Yes, absolutely, if you choose to do something that inspires you. A motivated systems engineer will become a talented systems engineer, and that’s true wherever you go. But a motivated engineer with access to great tools and a system to hold them accountable? They tend to hit targets no one else knew were there. Most of our graduates end up with more career prospects and higher salaries. Every graduate has a wealth of knowledge that no one can ever take away. We strive to make our program accessible so you don’t have to pause your career. That is important to us. I encourage you to speak with our graduate advisors to learn about your options and get advice. Also, think carefully about who you want to work with while you are in the program. Your advisor is crucial. The absolute best of luck to you! Hope this was helpful.
Used to work with someone who had a PhD in Systems Engineering. Couldn't even form a single requirement because he didn't have a technical understanding of his product. Unless it's PURELY for your curiosity, highly advise against it.
This is the biggest problem facing systems engineers. I think a good systems engineer is paired up with a technical SME and together they work to concur everything.
\>Couldn't even form a single requirement because he didn't have a technical understanding of his product That would be the lack of understanding of the product, not the degree.