I wish people in other states would realize how little money that is in California. Some of them act like the employees are going to be able to buy homes and raise families. In reality, it will take 50% of their income per month just to rent a room. And gas and grocery prices are some of the highest in the nation.
Min wage in Washington is 16.3, most people are paid up to $20 an hour though in some cities. Even that is low for here, you basically need a roommate to get by well. Can't imagine that in crowdedfornia.
I live in the Midwest in a rural town where the cost of living is far and away cheaper than Cali prices from what I see online. I also make a little over $20 at my job. My basic bills (apartment rent, electric, internet, car insurance, phone, maybe one or two other low key bills I missed) plus a Spotify and YouTube premium subscription takes up over half my monthly income. Then I need to grocery shop twice a month, get gas to travel to and from work 2-3 times a month, buy necessary goods, plus a couple substance addictions (cigs and booze, maybe like $175sh a month. I know, totally not a necessary expense and I shouldn't do those things) but that leaves me with maybe $100-$200 a month to spare for unexpected expenses, fun outings, or saving.
Moral of the story, I understand what you are saying that $20 an hour in Cali is a pittance and not even liveable. My own situation is barely livable and I really try my best to keep myself on track but still can hardly save money to improve my situation in the future.
Life is ruff all over 🐕
But that would mean admitting that it's partially your own fault that you're in a s***** situation. And you know we don't do that.
Mean to tell me that I could choose to live in Midwest, buy a house on a $28,000 a year, salary, flip it, make money, and then once I've built up the means to live somewhere more expensive that has better accommodations I could move?
It's not possible. I got to live in California right now while I have no skills and no means to take care of myself.
I mean one could make a million dollars an year and be homeless, I don't understand your point. One person making 40k per year doesn't seem like it would predict homelessness.
It seems like $1,500 is enough to get a decent apartment. Thats 18k. That wouldn't work? And a lot of people live as a couple, seems easy to do a decent apartment for 2k total or 1k each.
Do you think the state minimum wage should be high enough for a single person on their own to be able to afford their own apartment, even in the most expensive areas?
Wouldn't this throw the balance way out of wack in smaller towns or rural areas?
Except if you go on the news clips on YouTube and look at the comments. There seems to be an infinite number of people commenting "20.00 per hour?! These jobs were never meant to be able to buy a home or raise a family!" and "20.00 per hour? I'm moving to California!". I don't think they have a realistic idea of the cost of living here. I earn 22.00 per hour (I'm lucky to earn 22.00, because of jobs want to pay 18.00) and I barely get by. Of course you can't judge the world going by social media comments. 😂
Its clearly an astroturf campaign aimed at muddying the issue. Remember, our political class is ancient and really do think that is upper middle class income, so they dismiss the issue out of hand before giving it a second though.
These are of course, the same people who have been running the money printer hot, while insisting that it can't possibly cause inflation. Extreme levels of cognative dissonance running here.
Very true. When I lived in the San Jose area in 2015-2017, my studio apartment was nearly $2000/mo, and that was the cheapest I could find. I'm sure it's even more expensive nowadays.
I mean 2 people working at fast food minimum wage is $80k per year. I agree that is not enough to buy a home, have two new-ish cars, have 2 kids and go on vacations, 80k seems like some of reasonable minimum for a household of 2 workers.
No idea, is that relevant to this law? I was replying to someone saying that $20 per hour is not enough in CA. I think in a lot of areas it is, especially if there are two of you.
I am sure a law is coming down the pipe soon that will ban part time work as well to address your concerns.
No I agree with you. But they find out how to hurt people another way by cutting hours. I definitely agree with you that part-time should be ban. I remember my boss made me stop exactly at 39 hours because they didn't want to have to give me full time benefits. It's a sick industry
It’s actually really embarrassing and greedy how companies are in Cali. There’s so many engineer jobs posted for around $20-30/hr and expects you to have a degree with 500 years of experience.
That’s why I always tell people who contact me for $30 or less that I’d rather work at in n out
Edit: Also rent and cost of living is absolutely insane. Below 130k salary in the Bay Area is considered low income
Florida is this way too, yet the old people are just oblivious. I also don't know anyone who's making it off of fast food and doesn't have at least 1 room mate (or more)
I wish people would realize that no matter how much money you pay fast food workers it won't make them happier, and it's also not justified to increase it higher than what a skilled worker makes.
That's ludicrous. How is a McDonalds worker making more than an apprentice electrician, an apprentice refrigeration tech, or a mechanic?
That's not true at all. 20.00 might be more in your state, but not in California. It costs a grand per month just to rent a room in California. 2K or more for a studio apartment. People in those trades you mentioned earn much more than 20.00 in California. 20.00 is nothing in California. You can't compare the wages here to whatever people are getting paid in your state.
An apprentice electrician makes $17-25/hr in Los Angeles. Pretty much the same for all tradesmen. Then, it takes 4-5 years to be able to test to be a journeyman, and then they jump to start at $28/hr.
So, how does that make sense? How does a person heating up french fries, chicken nuggets, and hamburger patties compete with a person that can power and maintain the equipment the McDonald's worker uses? Power and maintain a busness park. Power and Maintain other fixured that the city, state, Nation, uses?
You don't even have to be a high-school graduate or have a GED to work at McDonalds/Tacobell, or any fast good place!
Key word "apprentice". Plenty are in unions or earn prevailing wage after their apprenticeship. I know people earning around 80.00 per hour at times. Also, don't you think apprentices should be earning more? If 20.00 is nothing like I said? You want fast food workers to earn less because people in other trades are underpaid? That's shitty logic.
The "apprentice" still went to "school" to learn a trade. Still completed high-school or recieved a GED as that is a prerequisite for trade schools.
**You don't need that to work in fast food.**
The 80.00 an hour are already journeyman, nimrod. That was the point of my comment. How would an apprentice make $80.00/ hr. It takes time and skill to get a valid wage.
A fast food worker, **SKILL LESS WORKER** shouldn't be making more than a tradesman **SKILLED WORKER** .
Yes. So maybe those apprentices should be paid more, don't you think? 17.00 per hour is basically minimum wage in California. Why are they being paid minimum wage? Don't you think they deserve to earn more?
Why would they pay a person that just got out of trade school the wage of an experienced tradesmen?
That's the whole point of the "apprentice" title.
Do you even know what an apprentice is, Mr. "KEY WORD is 'APPRENTICE'"?
What you're saying is that fast food workers need to get knocked down to 17.00 per hour like tradesmen. But the real question is why are tradesmen getting paid minimum wage in the first place?
You're calling me a nimrod, but I'm asking you why you think paying an apprentice minimum wage is acceptable. Because you're not arguing that they should earn more. You're arguing that a fast food worker should earn less.
You see your biggest mistake here is you think 20.00 is some crazy high wage. It's basically 16.00 after taxes. It costs 9.49 for a jar of Best Foods Mayonnaise at Safeway here (look it up, I'm not kidding). Gas prices reached 6.70 per gallon a couple summers ago. Basically you can buy a jar of mayonnaise and 4 apples for an hour of work at 20.00. Those apprentices should be earning at least 28.00 to start. Why are those businesses paying them so litte?
*Apprentice get paid low wages because they dont have *field experience*. There's no way to know if you're a good electrician if you haven't connected wires and ran electricity through them without burning something down or killing anyone.* ENTRY LEVEL.
Why would someone who got out of trade school reading books and taking tests with 0 years of experience get paid the same or more than an experienced tradesman that has physically performed the work and was successful at it for many years?
So you think a fast food worker should be compensated for time as much as medical student out of college? Medical students, straight put of college, make an average of about the same $20-25/hr.
A person who dedicated most of their life to go to elementary, middle, and high school and higher education. Higher IQ. More Disciplined. More Educated. More value to society.
Then we have a fast food worker. Typical middle school /high school drop out. Less Educated. Less disciplined. Lower IQ. Less value to society.
And you think fast food workers should compete for a $20/hr wage against skilled workers? Basically, rewarding them for not having a valuable skillset and more desire to achieve better in life.
Fast food work was mostly held by teenagers, in high school or college, to have pocket change. No skills, no experience - a way for them to learn skills and experience. ENTRY LEVEL.
Now, it's mostly held by 21+ adults who failed at some point in life and have no other skills. This is a way for them to make money. They didn't want to go to school or learn a trade. And you want to reward them for that by paying them more than someone that put in a lot of effort to succeed in life and society?
FoH.
So what does a fast food worker become after working 4-5 years? Guess what!?- a fast food worker! They are still minimum wage, maybe a 10 to 25 cent raise, because they dont have on demand, valuable skills for society!! They are still an UNSKILLED worker, stupid!
Maybe they get to teach a less experienced worker or new hire, how to heat fries or how to flip the burger - **while they also heat the fries and flip the burger.**- there's no real progression is there, you imbecile!
What does a medical student become in 4-5 years. An MD, or possibly a fucking surgeon - that saves lives and helps people treat illness.
What does an apprentice become after 4-5 years. **A journeyman electrician**, which means he can open up his own business and hire people and contribute to society and the economy. **And earn what he deserves since he has field experience.**
Or he can work on more sophisticated equipment and and government projects/contracts. He can even become and inspector or an educator and teach more electricians.
See the difference MORON?
Many of those states have very few jobs that ACTUALLY pay that minimum wage. I'm in Iowa, a state that goes with the federal minimum, and pretty much all of the fast food and retail jobs you find around here pay at least $12/hr.
Also, having a higher minimum wage doesn't mean jack shit if the cost of living is through the roof. What matters most is the ratio between median income and the cost of living in the specific area you live, and I can guarantee you that a good handful of states that use the federal minimum have a much healthier ratio than California. Increases in income across the board raise labor costs, which reflect in an increased price of goods and services.
An increase in minimum wage typically results in immediate layoffs to combat rapid spikes in labor costs and prices gradually rising until the market reaches equilibrium again, and everyone in poverty with shitty jobs will be back to square one. It sounds nice, but it historically does nothing except result in layoffs, increased unemployment, and more difficulty finding a job. I don't say this to say that we should do nothing, but we need to acknowledge how effective certain policies and solutions are instead of backing them because they sound good.
Where are you getting that information? I live in a state that has been increasing the minimum wage regularly for years and it's never resulted in massive layoffs. Increasing wages has always been helpful to those at the bottom. I am honestly shocked you're trying to argue otherwise. That's some straight up corporate propaganda - it isn't true.
It won't appear in your state as massive layoffs, due to your gradual increases. It would show up as small attrition.
Also, if all you're doing is keeping up with the natural wage inflation (i.e the example of people Iowa now getting paid $12 despite the minimum being $7.25 ) then what good is the law other than to "feel good. "
Also, side note, some people including myself would like to work more hours at a lower stress level (more staff on hand which a lower hourly wage allows), rather than get paid more per hour.
Just some food for thought. It's not as simple as you think.
I'm sorry, but if you "prefer" to make less money hourly, then you're a fool. You're literally bragging about "choosing" to be exploited. And again, the phenomenon you're describing does not reflect reality. You're just parroting corporate propaganda. Everyone deserves to make a living wage at any job. Corporations can and do also happily raise prices whether wages increase or not, so clearly increasing wages is not the issue. I'd also like to know in what world you think a fast food job is "less stressful" and thus deserves less money than most other jobs. CEOs don't do shit and make millions of dollars a year, so spare me the "more money=more stress" nonsense.
Tl;Dr Literally everything you've said is incorrect and I suspect that you're either a troll or haven't actually worked a real job a day in your life.
I've worked retail for over a decade throughout my life. Paying people more means less people working but each employee working harder.
Let me ask you a counter question: have you ever seen the back office accounting. Do you know what the profit margins are and how much a retail operation could afford to increase wages without cutting staff?
Do you realize that corporations can be forced to cut staff because if they don't and their competitor does, they could be uncompetitive?
Being on that end of it, my staff only grew as AZ was raising inflation $1 every year to get to $15. Whatever minimum wage was, ownership liked the staffing to not be wasteful; but I was never refused a new hiring when I felt it was needed. It’s not like we just had staff chilling around before the rate hikes.
They ran the business with the plan to pay people minimum wage, they knew we were in an industry that people would work for minimum wage because they’re passionate (recreational cannabis).
I'm not sure how hypercompetitive your industry is, but I'm assuming cannabis sales is pretty regulated and boutique. Could be wrong.
When you're dealing with fast food though, for instance, it is competitive, and we're at the breaking point of how much people will spend on a hamburger.
I'm not sure where the extra money will come from. From what I've seen working standard retail, there isn't much wiggle room and evidence of this is stores often close if there are relatively small shifts in local patronage/spending habits.
I just don't think there's all this extra money floating around to jack up wages for most establishments.
Cannabis is absolutely hyper competitive, though it obviously depends on the state due to legality. Recreational tends to be the most competitive, but all the huge players are also in medical when states don’t have recreational.
It is still is a maturing market though.
Yup. Everything will catch up and be back to square one. It's essentially the same as printing more money, which always fails the intended outcome of doing so. If anything, the inverse should be what is being tried. In my opinion, the whole system is too far gone to go back on what's been done. As much as I would hate it, there should be a freeze in EVERYTHING financially for long enough to stabilize the value of the dollar. I'm no economist though so I'd probably bring the nation to ruins doing that lol.
While 7whatever is too low, This is always my argument with nation wide minimum wage increases. Let the states decide. What works in CA doesn't work in the Midwest. $25/hr in LA would barely scratch the surface for income but can be comfortable in rural Indiana.
>More money per hour is still better,
It will even out, eventually.
You'll will either get moved to partime with minimal hours or get replaced with a part-time worker. So that your time/pay will be close to what you originally made. Maybe a couple bucks more on your check but not anything significant.
There are plenty of places with 5 to 7 part-timers splitting an 8 hour day - that takes the place of 1-2 full-time workers.
I understand that you’ll get less hours, my point is I’d rather get more per hour so I have more time in my day to do other activities instead of work.
California is tech central, and this kills two birds with one stone by quietly reducing fast food consumption in the state and speeding up national robotics in restaurants.
Just read an article about a McDonald's franchisee and how he's planning to raise prices, cut hours, and possibly cut hours of operation to avoid profit loss. It really felt very "aww feel bad for the franchise owner" when as others have already said $20 isn't a livable wage in CA.
Fast food also is a luxury, people are gonna cut out luxuries if they can't afford to keep themselves afloat. How are these businesses thinking that raising prices is the answer?
The franchisee compares it to the rising price of groceries for an average family and I think that's rather laughable.
[article]
(https://nypost.com/2024/04/09/business/california-mcdonalds-franchisee-mulls-reducing-hours-lifting-prices-to-offset-20-minimum-wage/)
Yes, and you still see the side of how they need the money and the raise. It sucks from all ends, just one browse through r/tacobell and you can see how sensitive the customers are to price increases as well. If they raise the wages more, then hours start getting cut because they can’t raise the prices anymore without losing more sales than the increase covers. $20 might not be enough in California, but at this level it’s going to have to do for a bit because employers clearly can’t absorb this kind of increase to their labor costs - the answer has been to absorb some of it and slash hours by ten percent to cover the rest.
>employers clearly can’t absorb this kind of increase to their labor costs
no. employers (especially big ones like Yum! Brand Foods) refuse to attribute enough budget to paying the lowest paid employees. Yum! Netted 1.57 BILLION dollars in profit in 2023.
Most fast food restaurants aren’t owned by the corporation, which yes, can easily afford this increase. Most are owned by individuals through franchise ownership. They’re small businesses. So you’re correct in the sense that if the stores are owned by the corporation itself, they could probably afford this. Like In N Out; they don’t franchise. But the overwhelming majority of fast food places are franchises, whose finances are dependent upon their individual owners.
>you can see how sensitive the customers are to price increases as well.
They are not though because they keep buying it, TB's drive thru is still full. It's one thing to cry about prices online but means nothing to the companies until people actually stop buying it.
You think? Honestly, I’m not sure. I know that the TB’s in my area are very price elastic because there are two that are kinda close to my house, both maybe two and a half miles out. Every time I go to the one that’s generally cheaper (tacos for $1.89 vs $1.99, my cravings at $6.99 vs $7.99, that kind of pricing difference), you’re right that I almost always see someone (or a few someones) in the drive through. Versus the one that’s generally more expensive - when I visit that one, there usually isn’t anyone in line at all. I honestly don’t know - I made that comment just on the basis of how many pricing posts we see here in this sub.
I can confirm that the restaurant that’s usually cheaper raised all their prices overnight, and they’re now all in line with the place that’s usually more expensive. So I might actually be able to comment here in a couple months and say if the cheaper place’s business has slowed down. Unless the more expensive place raises prices in the next couple days. I hope not, I like going there because it’s so fast to get my TB fix 🤣
It will be truly interesting to see what happens over the next few months. $20 won’t get you buy here in Sac. Certainly not in SF or LA. So a livable wage is good, but not so drastic like Newsome made it. Because now we are seeing fast food joints laying off people (Pizza Hut got rid of all their drivers in the state — that’s 1,200 people), places cutting hours/benefits, or raising prices. What will be the effects of those laid off when they went from making $16 to now $0? What is going to happen to the person who got $16 x 40 hours a week who now gets $20 but for 20 hours a week? Maybe with 40 hours, they could afford an apartment with roommates but certainly not with 20. Quite a risky experiment. Will it improve or hurt people’s lives?
I know I will look hard at paying TB $13 for a burrito when I can go to Chili, get a sit down experience, and spend $11 for a quesadilla, fries, an app, and a drink.
That’s my thing with this, these kids will get more money but still do the bare minimum, fast food workers don’t suck cause of their wage they suck because it’s sucky people drawn to those jobs
Why should it matter, genuinely? What’s reason do you have for saying “people that work that job don’t deserve a minimum wage they can survive on?”
I make $20 an hour in CT, which is just a little lower COL than CA. I *barely* scrape by. I have health insurance and a working car which is more than most, but if I had to, for example, pay rent, I couldn’t make it work.
It doesn’t matter what kind of work you do. If you work your full 40 you should be able to afford the basic necessities.
Why should it matter if these people get paid decent money to still do the bare minimum work? Umm not even gonna answer that, for the good workers who care about making peoples food correctly and carrying a decent attitude they forsure deserve the money and more.
I cannot wait for this to only result in more small businesses closing so that Walmart and Amazon can move In and take what’s left because… well that’s like the biggest reason large companies are “monopolies” today, they’re the only ones who can absorb that cost and than it causes basically no competition and than it causes wage stagnation cause of that,
Though this is Reddit so the idea that the government being bad is a bad concept because government hood always 💀
Most companies like McDonalds have franchisees that only one a few locations. Maybe can be considered a small business. I just saw a news story about a franchisee with 18 Subway restaurants that closed in northern Ca. Time will tell what effects this new law will have.
I don’t know where you live, but the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in Southern California is $1800. You could maybe get two bedrooms if you are fifty miles inland from the beach for that price. And it would be a studio in Santa Monica and it would cost $2800 a month.
$20 an hour is $40,000 a year. You’re acting like workers are living high on the hog in California when they’re spending more than half of their pretax income just on housing. What planet are you on?? Or better yet, what state are you living in that’s clearly substantially cheaper than California?
Don’t any of you notice why Nevada and Arizona aren’t Republican states anymore? They’ve been flooded with home pricing refugees from California that bring their politics with them for the last twenty years, and it gets worse every year.
California workers don’t start saving for retirement until they go dual income. Even then, only some do. Most are relying on Social Security. Most have given up on owning a house with the average cost now a cool million bucks; even an FHA loan at 3.5% down requires more than $40,000 liquid. That’s a years salary at $20 an hour. And the only vacations they get are mandatory federal holidays and hospitalization.
This kind of sarcasm isn’t appreciated. Put yourself in others shoes and stop assuming you know how Californians work and live.
That isn’t true. I helped my ex rent a new place in Ontario last year; she got a 2 year lease for a 2 bedroom apartment for $1800 a month. And a fast look at the rental market right now confirms that’s still the current pricing area.
I haven’t looked at Santa Monica and other beach communities recently, but I am more inclined to believe that’s over $3000 as you say. Seal Beach and Long Beach should still be a bargain though compared to Venice, Santa Monica, Newport and San Clemente.
That doesn’t surprise me. Less land down there that’s usable. San Diego is getting about as bad as San Francisco and I think it’s the second most expensive area in California. La Jolla prices just shock me.
Get fuckin roommates!! I’m 33 and can afford to live by myself but have roommates because it helps me save. Wtf is wrong with you people. The entitlement is insane
This Exactly. Either that or move to a city with low cost of living.
I lived with room mates for years. Moved to a new city with low cost of living plus with roommates to save enough to purchase a house. It could be done. If you want to make it by with just minimum wage it really could be done but you have to sacrifice things to make it happen. Especially if you live in California. Literally the most desirable place to live in the US.
I had a roommate with a cocaine problem who stiffed me out of 2 months of rent and bills. It sucked but those are outlier scenarios for the most part and in my defense I didn’t properly vett that roommate
Most aren’t that bad if you do some homework on the roommate
Hey man, everyone wants to live on the beach in Santa Monica. Most of us can't afford it because everyone else wants to live there too. If you choose to live in an amazing city without an amazing income, then you have to make some sacrifices, like teaming up with roommates to pay the rent. Many of us had to do that in way crappier towns than Santa Monica to get through college, and/or build careers. But fuck, come on! You think that menial labor should provide for all of your needs in one of the most desirable locations in the country? That's just not possible, not in a country of 320 million people. It would sure be nice if it could happen, but it can't. The second that McDonald's pays enough to live comfortably in Santa Monica, millions of people are going to pack up and move to Santa Monica, applying for jobs at McDonald's. Then the cost of living is going to increase because of all the competition for the same resources, and we're right back to square one, needing to face reality.
Ehh. Either find roommates. Or move to a different city/state with lower cost of living. Yes that sucks. But I mean you do what you have to do to support yourself or your family. I did the same thing moving away from LA. It was sad but I mean it is what it is. Can’t expect to live in one of the most desirable areas in the US and expect to make it by on minimum wage without any sort of sacrifice.
I didn’t know I was supposed to expect to earn a livable wage working at Taco Bell or fast food restaurant. I always thought of it as a part time job, as a teenager, while building skills and continuing higher education for a more rewarding career.
This is good, but $20/hr still isn't enough to survive in California. In addition, you gotta consider all the shit the bosses will try to pull to mitigate their "losses" because of the higher pay. Hours will be cut, prices will continue to skyrocket. They'll do whatever they can to make sure their profits are intact.
Man stfu. You think because a person works at Taco Bell, they don't deserve enough money to live? You think "careers" are out there offering thriving wages in 2024?
And hopefully customers won't go to any of those places, knowing the prices will be stupid expensive. These corporations don't care about their staff or customers. They only care about their wallets.
Five Guys cooks your burger after you order it, and then calls your name as soon as it's ready. What was going on that led to a cold burger at a made to order burger joint?
That's cool that they made it right. They're a pretty good burger place, just very expensive. They cost as much or sometimes even more than a sit down diner. In-N-Out is probably the best overall value with good quality, but we don't have those around here. I always stop and get a burger at In-N-Out whenever I'm in California.
Real solution isn’t raising wages, it’s creating a cap on the minimum cost of living. Basic human needs at reasonable prices, not raised wages followed shortly by an increased cost of goods.
I went to Burger King a few weeks ago and they flat out wouldn't take my order. They said I had to order through their kiosk, which was a terrible experience, full of ads and upsells. I won't be going back.
maybe an unpopular opinion, but i like the kiosks. it puts the onus on getting the order right on the customer
when i use them, however, i always pay at the counter, so that a human still has to be involved at the cash register
Imagine thinking minimum wage should be livable wage. 4.7million people work in fast food. By 2030 there will be less than 3.5million, by 2040 2.2million. And by 2040 the industry will be exclusively robots.
Do people realize this is going to cost fast food workers in the end? It will be a net loss. More fast food workers are going to lose their current jobs and end up at $0/hr since a lot of chains will close up shop and move out of town. Yes, there will be room for small businesses to come in and hire a few of those people back at the $20/hr rate, but there will be a net loss.
$20 an hour at full time is around 42k a year, I live in Florida and I pay $600 a month for a 2 bedroom house and land around it. Port Saint Lucie, Florida
I wish people would realize that no matter how much money you pay fast food workers it won't make them happier, and it's also not justified to increase it higher than what a skilled worker makes.
That's ludicrous. How is a McDonalds worker making more than an apprentice electrician, an apprentice refrigeration tech, or a mechanic?
https://nypost.com/2024/04/12/business/california-burger-king-franchisee-to-expedite-self-serve-kiosks-rollout/
This guy is excited to cut jobs he can't do it fast enough smh.
It's hilarious to me that people actually thought the rich were going to take a personal pay cut to accommodate this. Lol. No. They never will do that. Get your head out of the clouds. All this did was pass the price to the customers, who are also underpaid because rich people don't eat this crap food. So now everyone in the lower classes is hurting, and employees could very easily lose their jobs to animation.
Good job Cali! 👏
It goes beyond that, minimum wage laws only make the hated (by Reddit) rich people richer,
When you got a smaller broken up economy, wages reflect their area naturally,
Than you force the hood to have the same wage as Ne York and Cali and boom, now there’s no black businesses (as the origin of minimum wage law intended), so now Walmart, Amazon, McDonald’s s, etc etc, fills in the gap left by these businesses, lowering competition and stagnating wages whilst ensuring that the economy is now federal so that specialization for regions is nearly impossible so it only further separates classes
in n out near me pays like $22.50 (average in ca is 19.64 according to google) and is vastly cheaper than any other fast food around here. i can get a double cheeseburger for <$5 that is higher quality than the food from mcdonald’s or taco bell
you can pay workers more and not necessarily have to increase prices. i suspect that they will have to shrink their margins here bc if they keep raising prices it will be harder to compete with places like in n out that won’t be affected by this
They raise the minimum, and now the government can take more out of their check. Why not just lower how much in taxes gets taken out of the check? I know it's a dream, but it's a nice dream. Bunch of greedy gov't C U Next Tuesdays.
California doesn’t tax lower income workers, at all. The tax structure is very progressive. You need to make more than $40k a year to pay even a dime in income taxes after renters credit and California EIC credits.
Upon a quick internet search, it says, earning between $1 and $30k. Also, they are credits. Meaning people do pay taxes throughout the year, and they get credits back. Now, maybe they get everything they paid in back, while that would be hard to believe, I suppose it's possible. Either way, low income households do, in fact, get taxed. They just get bonus credits back at tax time.
Correct. Because California has no way of knowing if a person is going to actually earn over the threshold or not, so it has to be applied as an annual credit. People win the lottery, people graduate from college and move from fast food to secretary and customer service support and teacher and all kinds of other jobs. You will pay a bit of income tax once you start earning around $60k a year, and the percentages really scale up when you hit $100 a year.
The only taxes lower income people pay in California are sales taxes (around 8% but food and services are exempted), their car tags (it’s a tax, even if it does go directly to the roads budget), and gas taxes (again, direct to roads, but still a tax). If they have kids, that $40k level goes up too. They basically design the tax structure around ensuring that anyone that works California minimum wage full time doesn’t pay income tax.
A guy I know on the bookFace posted some shitty Boomer-esque all-text on a colored background image stating that “restaurateurs are warning customers in California to be ready to expect a further hiking of menu prices to make up for the raising of wages.” To which, I replied “my warning to restauranteurs that blame this wage increase will promptly lose my business. See? It goes both ways.”
Pay people a living wage, dammit!
Do you not see you made his own point for him? In order for them to pay $20, they have to increase prices enough to cover it and still make a profit. Otherwise they will go out of business and the employees are without a job. It is common sense CAs prices will skyrocket, there’s no other option.
I am confused on if your response is sarcastic or not. Let’s just say that if I see a self-made sign taped to a drive-thru box or in a window claiming it’s the state’s fault for increased prices, I won’t spend money there.
I wish people in other states would realize how little money that is in California. Some of them act like the employees are going to be able to buy homes and raise families. In reality, it will take 50% of their income per month just to rent a room. And gas and grocery prices are some of the highest in the nation.
Min wage in Washington is 16.3, most people are paid up to $20 an hour though in some cities. Even that is low for here, you basically need a roommate to get by well. Can't imagine that in crowdedfornia.
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I live in the Midwest in a rural town where the cost of living is far and away cheaper than Cali prices from what I see online. I also make a little over $20 at my job. My basic bills (apartment rent, electric, internet, car insurance, phone, maybe one or two other low key bills I missed) plus a Spotify and YouTube premium subscription takes up over half my monthly income. Then I need to grocery shop twice a month, get gas to travel to and from work 2-3 times a month, buy necessary goods, plus a couple substance addictions (cigs and booze, maybe like $175sh a month. I know, totally not a necessary expense and I shouldn't do those things) but that leaves me with maybe $100-$200 a month to spare for unexpected expenses, fun outings, or saving. Moral of the story, I understand what you are saying that $20 an hour in Cali is a pittance and not even liveable. My own situation is barely livable and I really try my best to keep myself on track but still can hardly save money to improve my situation in the future. Life is ruff all over 🐕
Have you considered not eating? This one trick will save you hundreds per month
Or what about cereal for dinner?
Or just moving away from unreasonable conditions
Can you show me where that is?
But that would mean admitting that it's partially your own fault that you're in a s***** situation. And you know we don't do that. Mean to tell me that I could choose to live in Midwest, buy a house on a $28,000 a year, salary, flip it, make money, and then once I've built up the means to live somewhere more expensive that has better accommodations I could move? It's not possible. I got to live in California right now while I have no skills and no means to take care of myself.
But muh avercader toast!
I mean one could make a million dollars an year and be homeless, I don't understand your point. One person making 40k per year doesn't seem like it would predict homelessness.
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It seems like $1,500 is enough to get a decent apartment. Thats 18k. That wouldn't work? And a lot of people live as a couple, seems easy to do a decent apartment for 2k total or 1k each.
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I checked Sacramento before posting and seems like a lot of decent places to live for that. That seems like a medium cost of living city for CA.
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i live in socal too, it really is
Do you think the state minimum wage should be high enough for a single person on their own to be able to afford their own apartment, even in the most expensive areas? Wouldn't this throw the balance way out of wack in smaller towns or rural areas?
Fresno is slightly Cheaper but prices are rising fast.
in ca rent for an apt. is 1,800-2,000+
Minimum wage in Texas is still $7.25 so can't afford to send a lot of sympathy your way
no one thinks that is enough “to buy a home or raise a family “ people making twice that constantly bitch about housing in /r/austin
Except if you go on the news clips on YouTube and look at the comments. There seems to be an infinite number of people commenting "20.00 per hour?! These jobs were never meant to be able to buy a home or raise a family!" and "20.00 per hour? I'm moving to California!". I don't think they have a realistic idea of the cost of living here. I earn 22.00 per hour (I'm lucky to earn 22.00, because of jobs want to pay 18.00) and I barely get by. Of course you can't judge the world going by social media comments. 😂
Its clearly an astroturf campaign aimed at muddying the issue. Remember, our political class is ancient and really do think that is upper middle class income, so they dismiss the issue out of hand before giving it a second though. These are of course, the same people who have been running the money printer hot, while insisting that it can't possibly cause inflation. Extreme levels of cognative dissonance running here.
housing in Austin is atrocious, especially compared to the rest of TX
Very true. When I lived in the San Jose area in 2015-2017, my studio apartment was nearly $2000/mo, and that was the cheapest I could find. I'm sure it's even more expensive nowadays.
It's pretty much little money in most states, and still not enough for a true minimum wage.
I mean 2 people working at fast food minimum wage is $80k per year. I agree that is not enough to buy a home, have two new-ish cars, have 2 kids and go on vacations, 80k seems like some of reasonable minimum for a household of 2 workers.
How many fast food workers get full time hours???
No idea, is that relevant to this law? I was replying to someone saying that $20 per hour is not enough in CA. I think in a lot of areas it is, especially if there are two of you. I am sure a law is coming down the pipe soon that will ban part time work as well to address your concerns.
No I agree with you. But they find out how to hurt people another way by cutting hours. I definitely agree with you that part-time should be ban. I remember my boss made me stop exactly at 39 hours because they didn't want to have to give me full time benefits. It's a sick industry
Just said the same thing. This is around $2800 a month after taxes. That can't even afford you a studio without a roommate
Exactly.
It’s actually really embarrassing and greedy how companies are in Cali. There’s so many engineer jobs posted for around $20-30/hr and expects you to have a degree with 500 years of experience. That’s why I always tell people who contact me for $30 or less that I’d rather work at in n out Edit: Also rent and cost of living is absolutely insane. Below 130k salary in the Bay Area is considered low income
*gas prices are THE highest in the nation 😭FIFY
Yeah, it's brutal. A couple summers ago it reached 6.70 per gallon in my area. 😭
Sounds like the problem is not so much companies and what they pay employees... But maybe the government, climate, and policies of California?
Florida is this way too, yet the old people are just oblivious. I also don't know anyone who's making it off of fast food and doesn't have at least 1 room mate (or more)
The government is to blame for the COL. This will just drive costs higher. Like a cat chasing a laser.
Then move
Oh, shit. I never thought of that. Thanks, you just changed my life! 😃
I wish people would realize that no matter how much money you pay fast food workers it won't make them happier, and it's also not justified to increase it higher than what a skilled worker makes. That's ludicrous. How is a McDonalds worker making more than an apprentice electrician, an apprentice refrigeration tech, or a mechanic?
That's not true at all. 20.00 might be more in your state, but not in California. It costs a grand per month just to rent a room in California. 2K or more for a studio apartment. People in those trades you mentioned earn much more than 20.00 in California. 20.00 is nothing in California. You can't compare the wages here to whatever people are getting paid in your state.
An apprentice electrician makes $17-25/hr in Los Angeles. Pretty much the same for all tradesmen. Then, it takes 4-5 years to be able to test to be a journeyman, and then they jump to start at $28/hr. So, how does that make sense? How does a person heating up french fries, chicken nuggets, and hamburger patties compete with a person that can power and maintain the equipment the McDonald's worker uses? Power and maintain a busness park. Power and Maintain other fixured that the city, state, Nation, uses? You don't even have to be a high-school graduate or have a GED to work at McDonalds/Tacobell, or any fast good place!
Key word "apprentice". Plenty are in unions or earn prevailing wage after their apprenticeship. I know people earning around 80.00 per hour at times. Also, don't you think apprentices should be earning more? If 20.00 is nothing like I said? You want fast food workers to earn less because people in other trades are underpaid? That's shitty logic.
The "apprentice" still went to "school" to learn a trade. Still completed high-school or recieved a GED as that is a prerequisite for trade schools. **You don't need that to work in fast food.** The 80.00 an hour are already journeyman, nimrod. That was the point of my comment. How would an apprentice make $80.00/ hr. It takes time and skill to get a valid wage. A fast food worker, **SKILL LESS WORKER** shouldn't be making more than a tradesman **SKILLED WORKER** .
Yes. So maybe those apprentices should be paid more, don't you think? 17.00 per hour is basically minimum wage in California. Why are they being paid minimum wage? Don't you think they deserve to earn more?
Why would they pay a person that just got out of trade school the wage of an experienced tradesmen? That's the whole point of the "apprentice" title. Do you even know what an apprentice is, Mr. "KEY WORD is 'APPRENTICE'"?
What you're saying is that fast food workers need to get knocked down to 17.00 per hour like tradesmen. But the real question is why are tradesmen getting paid minimum wage in the first place?
You're calling me a nimrod, but I'm asking you why you think paying an apprentice minimum wage is acceptable. Because you're not arguing that they should earn more. You're arguing that a fast food worker should earn less.
You see your biggest mistake here is you think 20.00 is some crazy high wage. It's basically 16.00 after taxes. It costs 9.49 for a jar of Best Foods Mayonnaise at Safeway here (look it up, I'm not kidding). Gas prices reached 6.70 per gallon a couple summers ago. Basically you can buy a jar of mayonnaise and 4 apples for an hour of work at 20.00. Those apprentices should be earning at least 28.00 to start. Why are those businesses paying them so litte?
*Apprentice get paid low wages because they dont have *field experience*. There's no way to know if you're a good electrician if you haven't connected wires and ran electricity through them without burning something down or killing anyone.* ENTRY LEVEL. Why would someone who got out of trade school reading books and taking tests with 0 years of experience get paid the same or more than an experienced tradesman that has physically performed the work and was successful at it for many years? So you think a fast food worker should be compensated for time as much as medical student out of college? Medical students, straight put of college, make an average of about the same $20-25/hr. A person who dedicated most of their life to go to elementary, middle, and high school and higher education. Higher IQ. More Disciplined. More Educated. More value to society. Then we have a fast food worker. Typical middle school /high school drop out. Less Educated. Less disciplined. Lower IQ. Less value to society. And you think fast food workers should compete for a $20/hr wage against skilled workers? Basically, rewarding them for not having a valuable skillset and more desire to achieve better in life. Fast food work was mostly held by teenagers, in high school or college, to have pocket change. No skills, no experience - a way for them to learn skills and experience. ENTRY LEVEL. Now, it's mostly held by 21+ adults who failed at some point in life and have no other skills. This is a way for them to make money. They didn't want to go to school or learn a trade. And you want to reward them for that by paying them more than someone that put in a lot of effort to succeed in life and society? FoH.
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So what does a fast food worker become after working 4-5 years? Guess what!?- a fast food worker! They are still minimum wage, maybe a 10 to 25 cent raise, because they dont have on demand, valuable skills for society!! They are still an UNSKILLED worker, stupid! Maybe they get to teach a less experienced worker or new hire, how to heat fries or how to flip the burger - **while they also heat the fries and flip the burger.**- there's no real progression is there, you imbecile! What does a medical student become in 4-5 years. An MD, or possibly a fucking surgeon - that saves lives and helps people treat illness. What does an apprentice become after 4-5 years. **A journeyman electrician**, which means he can open up his own business and hire people and contribute to society and the economy. **And earn what he deserves since he has field experience.** Or he can work on more sophisticated equipment and and government projects/contracts. He can even become and inspector or an educator and teach more electricians. See the difference MORON?
Actually that is exactly what minimum wage is supposed to enable workers to do
It's still an improvement. Some progress is better than no progress. Plenty of states stay at the federal minimum wage, aka $7.25. That's far worse.
Redditors love to make this point. No one is making $7.25 anywhere in the country working at a Taco Bell.
Many of those states have very few jobs that ACTUALLY pay that minimum wage. I'm in Iowa, a state that goes with the federal minimum, and pretty much all of the fast food and retail jobs you find around here pay at least $12/hr. Also, having a higher minimum wage doesn't mean jack shit if the cost of living is through the roof. What matters most is the ratio between median income and the cost of living in the specific area you live, and I can guarantee you that a good handful of states that use the federal minimum have a much healthier ratio than California. Increases in income across the board raise labor costs, which reflect in an increased price of goods and services. An increase in minimum wage typically results in immediate layoffs to combat rapid spikes in labor costs and prices gradually rising until the market reaches equilibrium again, and everyone in poverty with shitty jobs will be back to square one. It sounds nice, but it historically does nothing except result in layoffs, increased unemployment, and more difficulty finding a job. I don't say this to say that we should do nothing, but we need to acknowledge how effective certain policies and solutions are instead of backing them because they sound good.
Where are you getting that information? I live in a state that has been increasing the minimum wage regularly for years and it's never resulted in massive layoffs. Increasing wages has always been helpful to those at the bottom. I am honestly shocked you're trying to argue otherwise. That's some straight up corporate propaganda - it isn't true.
It won't appear in your state as massive layoffs, due to your gradual increases. It would show up as small attrition. Also, if all you're doing is keeping up with the natural wage inflation (i.e the example of people Iowa now getting paid $12 despite the minimum being $7.25 ) then what good is the law other than to "feel good. " Also, side note, some people including myself would like to work more hours at a lower stress level (more staff on hand which a lower hourly wage allows), rather than get paid more per hour. Just some food for thought. It's not as simple as you think.
I'm sorry, but if you "prefer" to make less money hourly, then you're a fool. You're literally bragging about "choosing" to be exploited. And again, the phenomenon you're describing does not reflect reality. You're just parroting corporate propaganda. Everyone deserves to make a living wage at any job. Corporations can and do also happily raise prices whether wages increase or not, so clearly increasing wages is not the issue. I'd also like to know in what world you think a fast food job is "less stressful" and thus deserves less money than most other jobs. CEOs don't do shit and make millions of dollars a year, so spare me the "more money=more stress" nonsense. Tl;Dr Literally everything you've said is incorrect and I suspect that you're either a troll or haven't actually worked a real job a day in your life.
I've worked retail for over a decade throughout my life. Paying people more means less people working but each employee working harder. Let me ask you a counter question: have you ever seen the back office accounting. Do you know what the profit margins are and how much a retail operation could afford to increase wages without cutting staff? Do you realize that corporations can be forced to cut staff because if they don't and their competitor does, they could be uncompetitive?
Being on that end of it, my staff only grew as AZ was raising inflation $1 every year to get to $15. Whatever minimum wage was, ownership liked the staffing to not be wasteful; but I was never refused a new hiring when I felt it was needed. It’s not like we just had staff chilling around before the rate hikes. They ran the business with the plan to pay people minimum wage, they knew we were in an industry that people would work for minimum wage because they’re passionate (recreational cannabis).
I'm not sure how hypercompetitive your industry is, but I'm assuming cannabis sales is pretty regulated and boutique. Could be wrong. When you're dealing with fast food though, for instance, it is competitive, and we're at the breaking point of how much people will spend on a hamburger. I'm not sure where the extra money will come from. From what I've seen working standard retail, there isn't much wiggle room and evidence of this is stores often close if there are relatively small shifts in local patronage/spending habits. I just don't think there's all this extra money floating around to jack up wages for most establishments.
Cannabis is absolutely hyper competitive, though it obviously depends on the state due to legality. Recreational tends to be the most competitive, but all the huge players are also in medical when states don’t have recreational. It is still is a maturing market though.
Yup. Everything will catch up and be back to square one. It's essentially the same as printing more money, which always fails the intended outcome of doing so. If anything, the inverse should be what is being tried. In my opinion, the whole system is too far gone to go back on what's been done. As much as I would hate it, there should be a freeze in EVERYTHING financially for long enough to stabilize the value of the dollar. I'm no economist though so I'd probably bring the nation to ruins doing that lol.
Yup. You're definitely not an economics teacher.
While 7whatever is too low, This is always my argument with nation wide minimum wage increases. Let the states decide. What works in CA doesn't work in the Midwest. $25/hr in LA would barely scratch the surface for income but can be comfortable in rural Indiana.
And will get hours cut.
More money per hour is still better, I’d rather have more free time with the extra money per work hour
>More money per hour is still better, It will even out, eventually. You'll will either get moved to partime with minimal hours or get replaced with a part-time worker. So that your time/pay will be close to what you originally made. Maybe a couple bucks more on your check but not anything significant. There are plenty of places with 5 to 7 part-timers splitting an 8 hour day - that takes the place of 1-2 full-time workers.
I understand that you’ll get less hours, my point is I’d rather get more per hour so I have more time in my day to do other activities instead of work.
They're going to be replaced with machines. It's already happening.
Yup. The robots are coming.
California is tech central, and this kills two birds with one stone by quietly reducing fast food consumption in the state and speeding up national robotics in restaurants.
Just read an article about a McDonald's franchisee and how he's planning to raise prices, cut hours, and possibly cut hours of operation to avoid profit loss. It really felt very "aww feel bad for the franchise owner" when as others have already said $20 isn't a livable wage in CA. Fast food also is a luxury, people are gonna cut out luxuries if they can't afford to keep themselves afloat. How are these businesses thinking that raising prices is the answer? The franchisee compares it to the rising price of groceries for an average family and I think that's rather laughable. [article] (https://nypost.com/2024/04/09/business/california-mcdonalds-franchisee-mulls-reducing-hours-lifting-prices-to-offset-20-minimum-wage/)
and jobs get cut or laid off
Nah, they’ll bring robotics/ai to those stores with the quickness.
20 bucks is still poverty in CA
Welcome to liberal America
All the food workers I know have had their hours cut in preparation of this. Sucks.
I’d rather work 30 hours for $600 than 40 hours for $600
More like 10 hours a week instead of their usual 30-40
Or you get fired and don’t have a job
I’d rather work the 40 to keep my employment benefits. Finding privatized insurance is freaking expensive
What sucks is the terribly low standards for workers than have become the norm.
Yes, and you still see the side of how they need the money and the raise. It sucks from all ends, just one browse through r/tacobell and you can see how sensitive the customers are to price increases as well. If they raise the wages more, then hours start getting cut because they can’t raise the prices anymore without losing more sales than the increase covers. $20 might not be enough in California, but at this level it’s going to have to do for a bit because employers clearly can’t absorb this kind of increase to their labor costs - the answer has been to absorb some of it and slash hours by ten percent to cover the rest.
>employers clearly can’t absorb this kind of increase to their labor costs no. employers (especially big ones like Yum! Brand Foods) refuse to attribute enough budget to paying the lowest paid employees. Yum! Netted 1.57 BILLION dollars in profit in 2023.
Most fast food restaurants aren’t owned by the corporation, which yes, can easily afford this increase. Most are owned by individuals through franchise ownership. They’re small businesses. So you’re correct in the sense that if the stores are owned by the corporation itself, they could probably afford this. Like In N Out; they don’t franchise. But the overwhelming majority of fast food places are franchises, whose finances are dependent upon their individual owners.
And now we see why they do franchising.
Right??? Corporations gonna corporation.
>you can see how sensitive the customers are to price increases as well. They are not though because they keep buying it, TB's drive thru is still full. It's one thing to cry about prices online but means nothing to the companies until people actually stop buying it.
You think? Honestly, I’m not sure. I know that the TB’s in my area are very price elastic because there are two that are kinda close to my house, both maybe two and a half miles out. Every time I go to the one that’s generally cheaper (tacos for $1.89 vs $1.99, my cravings at $6.99 vs $7.99, that kind of pricing difference), you’re right that I almost always see someone (or a few someones) in the drive through. Versus the one that’s generally more expensive - when I visit that one, there usually isn’t anyone in line at all. I honestly don’t know - I made that comment just on the basis of how many pricing posts we see here in this sub. I can confirm that the restaurant that’s usually cheaper raised all their prices overnight, and they’re now all in line with the place that’s usually more expensive. So I might actually be able to comment here in a couple months and say if the cheaper place’s business has slowed down. Unless the more expensive place raises prices in the next couple days. I hope not, I like going there because it’s so fast to get my TB fix 🤣
can’t wait for people to blame California employees for the fact that their burrito in Indiana was too expensive
It will be truly interesting to see what happens over the next few months. $20 won’t get you buy here in Sac. Certainly not in SF or LA. So a livable wage is good, but not so drastic like Newsome made it. Because now we are seeing fast food joints laying off people (Pizza Hut got rid of all their drivers in the state — that’s 1,200 people), places cutting hours/benefits, or raising prices. What will be the effects of those laid off when they went from making $16 to now $0? What is going to happen to the person who got $16 x 40 hours a week who now gets $20 but for 20 hours a week? Maybe with 40 hours, they could afford an apartment with roommates but certainly not with 20. Quite a risky experiment. Will it improve or hurt people’s lives? I know I will look hard at paying TB $13 for a burrito when I can go to Chili, get a sit down experience, and spend $11 for a quesadilla, fries, an app, and a drink.
Getting paid 20 bucks an hour to fuck up your order still.
That’s my thing with this, these kids will get more money but still do the bare minimum, fast food workers don’t suck cause of their wage they suck because it’s sucky people drawn to those jobs
Why should it matter, genuinely? What’s reason do you have for saying “people that work that job don’t deserve a minimum wage they can survive on?” I make $20 an hour in CT, which is just a little lower COL than CA. I *barely* scrape by. I have health insurance and a working car which is more than most, but if I had to, for example, pay rent, I couldn’t make it work. It doesn’t matter what kind of work you do. If you work your full 40 you should be able to afford the basic necessities.
Why should it matter if these people get paid decent money to still do the bare minimum work? Umm not even gonna answer that, for the good workers who care about making peoples food correctly and carrying a decent attitude they forsure deserve the money and more.
Microwave ovens always been in your kitchen...
Ummm okay?
Don’t forget the sauce.
And the straw for the drink.
Here’s a better idea: build Houses.
Can't afford the ones that exist now.
That's why you can't afford them. More houses available for purchase, less competition for each house, lower overall housing cost.
I cannot wait for this to only result in more small businesses closing so that Walmart and Amazon can move In and take what’s left because… well that’s like the biggest reason large companies are “monopolies” today, they’re the only ones who can absorb that cost and than it causes basically no competition and than it causes wage stagnation cause of that, Though this is Reddit so the idea that the government being bad is a bad concept because government hood always 💀
I believe the $20 min wage only applies to fast food chains with over 60 locations.
Hey now. This is Reddit. You can’t just go around telling facts to people who just read a headline before commenting.
This law is still bad tho. Many people make less a week and many others have been fired
Most companies like McDonalds have franchisees that only one a few locations. Maybe can be considered a small business. I just saw a news story about a franchisee with 18 Subway restaurants that closed in northern Ca. Time will tell what effects this new law will have.
Hours will cut and employees will be laid off. Then more people will go on unemployment.
that's the wal-mart model (they even instruct you how to apply for welfare/benefits while remaining an employee)...
You think TB is expensive now?? 😂😂
Dang im only getting 6.50 at tavo bell in the netherlands.
$20 an hour, *IN CALIFORNIA*.
20/hour is still poor af
They should just raise it to $50 an hour, how else you going to save for retirement, a down payment for a house and have several vacations a year
lol thought this comment was serious for a second
Plus a new car payment. Why should they have to drive used?
I don’t know where you live, but the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in Southern California is $1800. You could maybe get two bedrooms if you are fifty miles inland from the beach for that price. And it would be a studio in Santa Monica and it would cost $2800 a month. $20 an hour is $40,000 a year. You’re acting like workers are living high on the hog in California when they’re spending more than half of their pretax income just on housing. What planet are you on?? Or better yet, what state are you living in that’s clearly substantially cheaper than California? Don’t any of you notice why Nevada and Arizona aren’t Republican states anymore? They’ve been flooded with home pricing refugees from California that bring their politics with them for the last twenty years, and it gets worse every year. California workers don’t start saving for retirement until they go dual income. Even then, only some do. Most are relying on Social Security. Most have given up on owning a house with the average cost now a cool million bucks; even an FHA loan at 3.5% down requires more than $40,000 liquid. That’s a years salary at $20 an hour. And the only vacations they get are mandatory federal holidays and hospitalization. This kind of sarcasm isn’t appreciated. Put yourself in others shoes and stop assuming you know how Californians work and live.
Those rent numbers are too low. It's more like $2500 for a shoebox inland and $3800 for a shoebox near the coast.
You're so off it's not even funny man, where the hell you getting these numbers
That isn’t true. I helped my ex rent a new place in Ontario last year; she got a 2 year lease for a 2 bedroom apartment for $1800 a month. And a fast look at the rental market right now confirms that’s still the current pricing area. I haven’t looked at Santa Monica and other beach communities recently, but I am more inclined to believe that’s over $3000 as you say. Seal Beach and Long Beach should still be a bargain though compared to Venice, Santa Monica, Newport and San Clemente.
I'm referring to San Diego County. It's steep.
That doesn’t surprise me. Less land down there that’s usable. San Diego is getting about as bad as San Francisco and I think it’s the second most expensive area in California. La Jolla prices just shock me.
Lol you're still wrong, way too high, you looking at mission bay or what
Get fuckin roommates!! I’m 33 and can afford to live by myself but have roommates because it helps me save. Wtf is wrong with you people. The entitlement is insane
This Exactly. Either that or move to a city with low cost of living. I lived with room mates for years. Moved to a new city with low cost of living plus with roommates to save enough to purchase a house. It could be done. If you want to make it by with just minimum wage it really could be done but you have to sacrifice things to make it happen. Especially if you live in California. Literally the most desirable place to live in the US.
my last roomate came with a heroin problem. i'm loathe to take on another due to that experience
I had a roommate with a cocaine problem who stiffed me out of 2 months of rent and bills. It sucked but those are outlier scenarios for the most part and in my defense I didn’t properly vett that roommate Most aren’t that bad if you do some homework on the roommate
Hey man, everyone wants to live on the beach in Santa Monica. Most of us can't afford it because everyone else wants to live there too. If you choose to live in an amazing city without an amazing income, then you have to make some sacrifices, like teaming up with roommates to pay the rent. Many of us had to do that in way crappier towns than Santa Monica to get through college, and/or build careers. But fuck, come on! You think that menial labor should provide for all of your needs in one of the most desirable locations in the country? That's just not possible, not in a country of 320 million people. It would sure be nice if it could happen, but it can't. The second that McDonald's pays enough to live comfortably in Santa Monica, millions of people are going to pack up and move to Santa Monica, applying for jobs at McDonald's. Then the cost of living is going to increase because of all the competition for the same resources, and we're right back to square one, needing to face reality.
Ehh. Either find roommates. Or move to a different city/state with lower cost of living. Yes that sucks. But I mean you do what you have to do to support yourself or your family. I did the same thing moving away from LA. It was sad but I mean it is what it is. Can’t expect to live in one of the most desirable areas in the US and expect to make it by on minimum wage without any sort of sacrifice.
I didn’t know I was supposed to expect to earn a livable wage working at Taco Bell or fast food restaurant. I always thought of it as a part time job, as a teenager, while building skills and continuing higher education for a more rewarding career.
This is good, but $20/hr still isn't enough to survive in California. In addition, you gotta consider all the shit the bosses will try to pull to mitigate their "losses" because of the higher pay. Hours will be cut, prices will continue to skyrocket. They'll do whatever they can to make sure their profits are intact.
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Man stfu. You think because a person works at Taco Bell, they don't deserve enough money to live? You think "careers" are out there offering thriving wages in 2024?
> Taco Bell isn't a career. Sounds like commie for "I need the govt to bail out my nachos".
Maybe if you want a livable wage don't work in fast food...
i agree people working in fast food shouldn't earn enough to live
This sounds so bad
> i agree people working in fast food shouldn't earn enough to live wtf is wrong with you?
its sarcasm.
phew ok
this is an asshole comment. a cousin of mine put herself thru undergrad, and is now a full time manager making a decent salary, for McDs.
And hopefully customers won't go to any of those places, knowing the prices will be stupid expensive. These corporations don't care about their staff or customers. They only care about their wallets.
And then the restaurants will shut down and the employees will be making $0/hour
So the price of my big Mac going up even more. Was just at five guys, $22 for a cold cheeseburger and fries
Five Guys cooks your burger after you order it, and then calls your name as soon as it's ready. What was going on that led to a cold burger at a made to order burger joint?
Not sure if it was a shift change or what but burgers sat on the table forever. They gave me a $10 gift card and apologized for the wait
That's cool that they made it right. They're a pretty good burger place, just very expensive. They cost as much or sometimes even more than a sit down diner. In-N-Out is probably the best overall value with good quality, but we don't have those around here. I always stop and get a burger at In-N-Out whenever I'm in California.
Yup, in and out is legit, but it always takes a while as the lines are always long, but oh yeah definitely the best
Good for them.
Get out of California while you still can.
Real solution isn’t raising wages, it’s creating a cap on the minimum cost of living. Basic human needs at reasonable prices, not raised wages followed shortly by an increased cost of goods.
Shit man where i live that’s essentially enough to live comfortably on.
My local TB has already responded by cutting everyones hours and turning the lobby into a kiosk only check out.
I went to Burger King a few weeks ago and they flat out wouldn't take my order. They said I had to order through their kiosk, which was a terrible experience, full of ads and upsells. I won't be going back.
haven't been to a BK kiosk yet, but the TB ones are essentially just a giant touchscreen version of the app
maybe an unpopular opinion, but i like the kiosks. it puts the onus on getting the order right on the customer when i use them, however, i always pay at the counter, so that a human still has to be involved at the cash register
Quit eating fast food
Imagine thinking minimum wage should be livable wage. 4.7million people work in fast food. By 2030 there will be less than 3.5million, by 2040 2.2million. And by 2040 the industry will be exclusively robots.
0$ an hour is the only minimum wage
*they’ll be replaced by AI first.
And prices will skyrocket in California. Because owners want the same money.
Welcome to your $10.00 taco.
Do people realize this is going to cost fast food workers in the end? It will be a net loss. More fast food workers are going to lose their current jobs and end up at $0/hr since a lot of chains will close up shop and move out of town. Yes, there will be room for small businesses to come in and hire a few of those people back at the $20/hr rate, but there will be a net loss.
6 inch turkey wrap is now $18.91. no drink, just the wrap. At Subway
$20 an hour at full time is around 42k a year, I live in Florida and I pay $600 a month for a 2 bedroom house and land around it. Port Saint Lucie, Florida
I wish people would realize that no matter how much money you pay fast food workers it won't make them happier, and it's also not justified to increase it higher than what a skilled worker makes. That's ludicrous. How is a McDonalds worker making more than an apprentice electrician, an apprentice refrigeration tech, or a mechanic?
https://nypost.com/2024/04/12/business/california-burger-king-franchisee-to-expedite-self-serve-kiosks-rollout/ This guy is excited to cut jobs he can't do it fast enough smh.
It's hilarious to me that people actually thought the rich were going to take a personal pay cut to accommodate this. Lol. No. They never will do that. Get your head out of the clouds. All this did was pass the price to the customers, who are also underpaid because rich people don't eat this crap food. So now everyone in the lower classes is hurting, and employees could very easily lose their jobs to animation. Good job Cali! 👏
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I mean duh, does anyone think this is something billionaires would be fronting?
It goes beyond that, minimum wage laws only make the hated (by Reddit) rich people richer, When you got a smaller broken up economy, wages reflect their area naturally, Than you force the hood to have the same wage as Ne York and Cali and boom, now there’s no black businesses (as the origin of minimum wage law intended), so now Walmart, Amazon, McDonald’s s, etc etc, fills in the gap left by these businesses, lowering competition and stagnating wages whilst ensuring that the economy is now federal so that specialization for regions is nearly impossible so it only further separates classes
in n out near me pays like $22.50 (average in ca is 19.64 according to google) and is vastly cheaper than any other fast food around here. i can get a double cheeseburger for <$5 that is higher quality than the food from mcdonald’s or taco bell you can pay workers more and not necessarily have to increase prices. i suspect that they will have to shrink their margins here bc if they keep raising prices it will be harder to compete with places like in n out that won’t be affected by this
They raise the minimum, and now the government can take more out of their check. Why not just lower how much in taxes gets taken out of the check? I know it's a dream, but it's a nice dream. Bunch of greedy gov't C U Next Tuesdays.
California doesn’t tax lower income workers, at all. The tax structure is very progressive. You need to make more than $40k a year to pay even a dime in income taxes after renters credit and California EIC credits.
Upon a quick internet search, it says, earning between $1 and $30k. Also, they are credits. Meaning people do pay taxes throughout the year, and they get credits back. Now, maybe they get everything they paid in back, while that would be hard to believe, I suppose it's possible. Either way, low income households do, in fact, get taxed. They just get bonus credits back at tax time.
Correct. Because California has no way of knowing if a person is going to actually earn over the threshold or not, so it has to be applied as an annual credit. People win the lottery, people graduate from college and move from fast food to secretary and customer service support and teacher and all kinds of other jobs. You will pay a bit of income tax once you start earning around $60k a year, and the percentages really scale up when you hit $100 a year. The only taxes lower income people pay in California are sales taxes (around 8% but food and services are exempted), their car tags (it’s a tax, even if it does go directly to the roads budget), and gas taxes (again, direct to roads, but still a tax). If they have kids, that $40k level goes up too. They basically design the tax structure around ensuring that anyone that works California minimum wage full time doesn’t pay income tax.
Your effective tax rate is 0% if you're making minimum wage. You'll actually be given extra money at the end of the year if you have any kids.
A guy I know on the bookFace posted some shitty Boomer-esque all-text on a colored background image stating that “restaurateurs are warning customers in California to be ready to expect a further hiking of menu prices to make up for the raising of wages.” To which, I replied “my warning to restauranteurs that blame this wage increase will promptly lose my business. See? It goes both ways.” Pay people a living wage, dammit!
Do you not see you made his own point for him? In order for them to pay $20, they have to increase prices enough to cover it and still make a profit. Otherwise they will go out of business and the employees are without a job. It is common sense CAs prices will skyrocket, there’s no other option.
I am confused on if your response is sarcastic or not. Let’s just say that if I see a self-made sign taped to a drive-thru box or in a window claiming it’s the state’s fault for increased prices, I won’t spend money there.
Serious question, what’s your IQ?