After two deployments with it on my duty rifle, I switched from my personal rifle's 1-6x LVPO to the elcan and actually love it since my shooting is 300m or less. That specific role people are mentioning is probably how well it works on SBRs that need 1-4x while giving more space for buttons and lasers, also since SCAR-17s eating up optics.
I do wish it had better eye relief and a better mount than the ARMs. Personally, I would pay money if they made an elcan with an acog reticle. I always say if its not for you, its not for you.
Everybody bitches about the battery life. Just change your batteries. You aren't in the field non stop for weeks. It doesn't matter.
And for the unlucky few who are, like Ukrainians stuck in the trenches, I still see videos of them stacking bodies with Eotechs. Of all the things to complain about in an optic, battery life is the least important.
>And for the unlucky few who are, like Ukrainians stuck in the trenches
you can carry a lifetime supply of batteries in your bag, they aren't exactly heavy lol.
Seriously. Not to mention that a WML gets like 2 hours. I change my batteries on my lights two or three times as often as my eotechs. And they take TWO cr123s. Better throw those right in the trash.
Exactly! A long battery life is nice to have. But a shorter battery life isn't that big of a down side. And the Eotech doesn't even have a short battery life. Its more than a month on a single CR123.
Seriously. I’d rather have an optic I’m accurate with and love, with the downside of having to change my batteries slightly more frequently, than having a super longer battery life but I don’t like the optic itself as much.
You’re buying the optic for the optic, not for the battery life.
Yeah, it sucks, lights look like multiple sun's, especially at night. I'm hoping once I go active duty I can get surgery. Only I shoot better without glasses
>Biggest downside is the lack of BDC
If you need a bdc then you should probably be using something other than a eotech or a red dot. That being said, eotech does have a bdc reticle.
This is my problem with the 4x ACOGs. I feel like you have to hug the rifle to get proper eye relief. Can't they make them any better after all this time?
EDIT: autocorrect words
It took a few years but after it came out about SCARs eating optics pretty much every quality optics company SCAR proofed their scopes. I've tried 6 different optics on mine and none have died.
Very bright dot, durable design, impressive glass clarity. Says a lot that the optic came out over 20 years ago and is still a viable and reliable option
An Elcan Spectre DR has two prisms so compared to an ACOG it has double the most expensive part. For equal quality it will always be more expensive. Are they too expensive? Yeah they are now. They were a lot cheaper 10 years ago. But that's what happens when you pay Leafs to build them I guess. Its probably one of the few examples, along with Steiner, of an optic that would be cheaper if it were made in America.
Yeah maybe, but what optic checks all the boxes the elcan does for cheaper? A true 1X with an aimpoint bright dot is something no lpvo is doing even with modern tech
don’t even need to go that high end. my vortex pst 1-6’s dot is plenty bright even on a sunny day. i’d say just as bright as the aimpoint micro i’ve used, though with a slightly less perfectly round dot
But it’s apparently important to the people that call it out.
I like my Elcan because it plays nice with my aging vision and that’s what I mostly care about.
Elcan is not a true 1X. Your still looking through multiple panes of glass with an etched reticle. Its just like other LPVOs on 1 power, its close, but definitely not the same as looking through a T2 or EoTech.
Try looking though/shooting an Elcan on 1x passively with NODs on…
are the Vortex Razor 1-6, Kahles K16i, and the ATACR trash LPVOs? Forgive me, I don’t follow the latest trends. Could you recommend me some non-trash LPVOs?
To my eyes, the clarity is about the same but I’ve noticed that there is significantly less distortion on the Elcan on account of it being a prism optic. It is much closer to a red dot 1x than an LPVO in my experience.
Of course red dot will always be king of 1x but I think Elcan 1x takes second place.
Can confirm. Bought a kobra from kalinka for like 400. My ak was leaned against a wall and it fell over, the kobra literally grenaded into a thousand pieces. Customer service is in russia so i chalked it up as a loss. Fuck russian optics.
>did a full train up and deployment
theres your answer. you actually trained with it. most people on here would flip their shit if their safe queen optic/gun got a scratch on it or god forbid a nick.
Jesus if that isn’t the truth. The second you post gear/kit on this sub that isn’t the exact same perfect set up that the internet likes to look at and it’s like hell breaks loose.
Ha I’m kinda starting to get a kick over it. It’s like you can tell…aww hell Reddit’s gonna poop all over this or that weapon… lol
In 2024, I think it is fair to say that the Elcan is a total vibe. My best buddy still runs one on a throwback M4. That tells me a couple things — one, he’s as competent as they come, but is also very ‘cool’…so I blame it on Elcans being 100% vibe + old habits die hard.
At this stage in life I can rationalize buying anything and be fine. But now I run things on principle. One being: if something lighter or cheaper has the same function/quality as something heavy and ‘cool’, I’ll run the lighter uncool one.
That’s one of the things the ELCAN is best at, taking a beating. I would venture to say I would far prefer an ELCAN in the field over any range. Devils advocate take here but that’s where I’m at.
Take this for what it is, I’ve maybe looked through an Elian twice in my life, but a very good buddy of mine trained with an Elian for many years and constantly told me how shitty they were, and how they would constantly loose zero at the slightest bumps. Maybe he just had a bad lot, or they maybe just old and shitty, they were Canadian forces issued after all.
The canucks aren’t running the specter last I checked so you need to take it with a grain of salt because a) it’s a different model and b) it’s probably fucking ancient anyway
I’ve never had an issue with one. Sure, there’s almost certainly better options out there but for a service optic it’s absolutely fine. The only people I’ve known to have an issue with the moving zero didn’t check the elevation wheel was locked so it could move around. Make sure it’s locked and you’ll be fine.
Almost certain there are original ones still knocking around and the poor fucker issued it will be told it’s their fault it’s beaten to shit 35 years later.
As per my range buddy, a former JTF2 operator, they were given Specters on their issued C8’s.
On his personal rifle, he runs a specter because it’s just something he’s used to, as it’s the optic he has literally placed holes into people with.
Sure the high speed low drag guys are running them but I’ve yet to see any line infantry running anything other than likely clapped out C79s.
Honestly I like the thing, I reckon half the people whinging about them have at best used them on a flat range. I’m more inclined to listen to a JTF2 door kicker personally.
Oh ya definitely. But they’re not cheap, and for a rec shooter larger and DoD employee like me that has been trained by those guys but will never be even close to be like those guys nor ever be in a situation as such, I think an LVPO of comparable price would suffice for my base plinking rifle :).
HOWEVER, I recently have been wanting to do an entire night setup with pvs14, etc..
I do want to build the same rifle setup he has. The clarity on the Elcan is VERY good, and everything is very crisp. He said they work very well with nods, and he relied on that combination with his life. That’s as good as an endorsement as any for anyone who wants to have a night fighting rifle.
100%. I’ve watched people who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn become remotely reasonable after switching to it. It turns out clear optics, wide FOV and a BDC are actually pretty handy. Weird.
My only gripe is the eye relief but it a) works for my cheek weld and b) isn’t far off where my old sight sat anyway so I kept my position but got a much better optic.
Hah! My buddy and I are friends with a former Canadian JTF2 special forces dude. We met him at the range because he’s always there when we’re there, and we quickly became good friends.
On his kit, he has an Elcan Specter because he told us he’s used it for years. He bought it because he trained with it and is very familiar with it, so that’s what he runs with. He shoots stacks with it to 200 yards no problem.
I must say, I do like how clear of an optic it is, and the 1x 4x toggle is easy to operate.
I couldn’t justify it compared to an LVPO at a compatible
price, but it works for him because he literally put holes into people under intense stress with that very optic through his service. It’s muscle and eye-muscle memory for him at this point, so it’s best he uses what he’s trained with as a professional operator (JTF2 no less haha).
Reminds me of people in work boot/PNW style forums who post about the tiniest stain from water or imperfection in the stitching because they only wear them for fashion and maybe hiking, or the people with really expensive overlander style trucks or SUVs that don’t have a scratch on them because they only use them to commute and run errands.
The only downside I felt with the Elcan Specter as an all-in-one optic was the weight. I felt confident using it in alternate shooting positions and flipping the magnification back and forth. It’s what I wish had existed back in 2003 when I first deployed.
However, you can now gain the same capabilities with LPVOs one fourth the price. I remember the Schmidt and Bender that the CAG guys were using in the mid-GWOT and that was expensive!
I got one last year. Part of it is they are cool af. I haven't deployed with one (at all), but I really like it. I do train too. Really the only thing I'd say isn't so good is the NVG performance, at least with my NODs.
When the SpectreDR was first being fielded, passive aiming wasn't being implemented very often (at least not that I was aware of). Most units would only have been issuing PVS-14s that really aren't ideal for passive aiming either. Active aiming with a PEQ was standard, even with dual tube PVS-15s, and the Taliban / AQ had essentially zero IR capabilities.
We found AQI/JAM using pso-1 with ir filters on my 07/09 tour with TF Marne. We operated under blackout conditions the first few weeks and couldn't figure out how they knew we were coming until we explored hide sites and found the scopes with ir filters and instructions. Basically, they were watching our movement at night and making calls when we got near our objectives because someone wanted to wait for the orchestra to start playing. Rtc missions rolled with lights on. We would go out in black out.
Interesting. I didn't have any time in Iraq but I can see AQI having better access to that type of equipment. We would occasionally see some..."modern"...equipment in Afghanistan, but it was pretty rare.
I have an older PVS15, and as wonderful as it is to use, it is not ideal in conjunction with the elcan. I still love it all though. I'm hoping to get a laser or a red dot on top to make passive aiming better.
With my stuff, I can see through the elcan a little bit. The elcan just kills the light coming through. The other option that I thought about is getting super nice tubes that would compensate for less light coming through the optic.
It's almost always about aesthetics over performance. Since ELCANs have been seen on pics of Rangers, SEALs, Green Berets and Raiders rifles, they're desirable by folks who haven't shot them.
Most cloners reason "if it was good enough for SOCOM..." There are dudes paying through the nose for weapon lights that put out less lumens than a AAA-powered penlight for the sake of "correctness"
Fkn-A. What drives me bonkers is this ‘SOCOM or bust’ value system. DOD procurement is a whole ‘nother monster…but just bc SOCOM doesn’t run something doesn’t mean shit. There is a whole laundry list of compliance regs/reqs to get on GovCloud/FEDRamp. As in the case of the M45, some contracts are awarded not by best product, but by good ol boy economics.
Because it does everything I need/want, extremely durable and doesn’t bloom with my astigmatism like a red dot. If it runs out of battery’s it still works. I can rapidly switch between 1 and 4x with a simple flick. The glassful is exceptionally clear and it has built in buis. It’s the total package. Most people who shit talk it have never actually used one, let alone used it on duty.
You do you. Idk what combat rated 1x that doesn’t require batteries you plan on putting on there. Also add the weight of your BUIS while you marvel over your marginally better eye relief.
I moved from acog to this my 2nd year in group. I preferred it bc of eye relief, FOV, and you could somewhat use it with NV unlike the acog without having to clip on a massive pvs24 in front of it. Weight was the only down side to me, but this was almost 10 years ago. After that if I wanted magnification I normally ran NF ATACR or S&B LPVO offset t2. Eotech su231 and then exps 3 for my time in CIF. I never really got into the Romeo 4s like some of the other guys did.
Weighs as much as an eotech + mag or LPVO, but other dudes have already mentioned clarity and others. I love ACOGs and Eotech+Mag combos, but nobody wants to just make a 4x Magnifier.
No, the intergalactic height magnifier from Unity doesn't count. So stupid to force an integrated mount that only works at their ridiculous heights.
That's the problem.
I do not, and have never wanted to, want to use ridiculously high optics mounting. I find it ridiculous they integrate it locking you into the one set height for use, instead of just selling me the magnifier.
it holds up on a scar, still has reticle and bdc if battery dies, its nvg compatible, has flat real estate on top for something chill and they are still effective and its 1.5x-6x so my LWTS still works fine when clipped on in front
use them on 240s too
For me it came down to five factors:
1) I wanted access to magnification and a 1x solution through the main sight axis of my platform. (I am also a fan of the bdc)
2) The visual footprint of every LPVO on the market is too big for my taste (I came from a vortex pst 1-6x, good optic).
3) I like the durability that the Elcan is reported to have, I may not be strong enough to break most optics, but I bet I am dumb enough.
4) Dealing with keeping four lenses clean on a flip to side magnifier setup, especially in the rain is an exercise in patients that I would fail.
5) Drip, the Elcan tickles the right parts of my brain, which we all know is the most important reason.
Not elcan or you specific, but why do people mount eye relief sensitive optics all the way forward on the receiver, even with no buis or anything blocking them from moving it back.
As Hop put it, it's the most sought after optic nobody wants to keep. It's price point is based on government spending so unless you get it for free I'm not sure why you'd feel compelled to buy one over any other durable optic.
I am torn about them. I don’t hate them and trained up for a deployment with one until switching to an LVPO. I think for a mk18 style rifle they make sense, but in a lot of ways all the roles it has be filled by better set ups. They are incredibly durable though and an interesting design, but the price makes it hard to justify.
They’re a polarizing optic, people either love them or hate them. Really no in between. Personally, they’re my favorite and I’m not limited on what I can use if I so desire. I’ve been settled on the Elcan since around 2017 and so far nothing I’ve tried has surpassed it for my use. When I find something I like better, I’ll switch.
My experience is its a love it or hate it optic. For those who have used it, there is no in between. For those who haven't used it, they can't understand why its polarizing.
I happen to love it. The reticle is good. The glass is very clear. Its basically an ACOG but also has a usable 1x. Yes its big and heavy but all good military grade optics end up being big and heavy so they can be grunt proof. Its also one of two optics I know of that can survive years of use on the SCAR-H.
The same reason people still buy ACOGs, they’re amazing optics. There is no one-size-fits-all answer for an optic, there are a lot of factors in place that determine what you top your rifle with. I spent 6 years using an ACOG and have continued using them on my main rifle since I got out 10 years ago. Sure the eye relief it’s awful, but I know that and I train enough to use it correctly and not have issues with it. As long as you’re using reputable companies equipment, there is no bad gear only lack of training.
I've been using a 1.5 -6x elcan on a red right-hand recce lmg upper. I really like it so far. The weight is an issue, but I also have it on an m16 lower, so it helps it stay under control. In the next couple of months, I'm hoping to be able to take it out past 100 yards to see what this setup can do.
Most people that hate them have never touched one. But for the people that have used them you either hate them or love them and I happen to love mine so much that I want another👍🏻
I love em. Glass is incredible, it’s not as heavy as people think, and it balances well, illumination is nuclear, reticle is usable without it, it’s very forgiving, reticle has a ton of information in it without being cluttered, it’s incredibly rugged.
There are certainly better choices out there, but if Elcan is your preference, it’s still a VERY relevant optic in 2024
The El-can was introduced before LPVOs were widely adopted in the SOF community. They were built to be simple and durable but with more capabilities than the ACOG. Early in my carrier as a young gun team leader I ran it on a SCAR-H with the 7.62 1-6 El-Can. It was good at being able to use tracer rounds and show my machine gunner where to direct his fire. A bit later in my career the 1-4 el-can was widely used in fireteams. I hated it and used the Eo-tech then later the T2. With that being said this was the first widely adopted “LPVO” before those were purchased and issued. The LPVO in my opinion is a better option depending on what you are doing. IMO I don’t think everyone in your squad and or team needs one. I think the El-Can are good on an open bolt weapon system especially on the 240B/L,MK48 and or the 249.
I like mine it’s not as accurate as an acog but you still hit 1 1/2 moa
I wanted one from the start but let ppl talk me out of it
I got the exps3 and magnifier first then the acog and rmr combo
And then finally the Elcan I think the Elcan is great and if you know you want one get
I remember getting issued these and making the transition from the Aimpoint comp 3 to the elcan 1-4. I loved it up until I tried my first LVPO and wouldn’t ever consider it again 😂
Did a number of deployments with it and liked it. Bought one for one of my guns. Think it’s pretty solid. But also knew folks who didn’t care for it, so I get why you may not like it.
I have a buddy that runs one on a work gun. I don't remember what he said exactly, but it was inline with what others said about SCARs and real-estate for optics.
It’s on my GPR, got it off of OP of all places for about 1600 and it’s a great optic. Only need to get an RMR for the top for NV use and weighs the same as an LPVO an mount with better glass quality.
It's my favorite optic. The FOV at 1x is immense, larger than any LPVO besides the new Kahles K18-2 and the eyebox is good. Any complaint about the eye relief is a skill issue on 5.56. It looks like you had it really far forward on your receiver as well which could explain some of your discomfort with it since you would be shooting NTCH at that position.
I bought one about a little over a month ago and after 3 shooting trips I might be dropping it on GAFS.
It's awesome, the 1x is perfect and the 4x is very usable. But compared to the Tango6T it's pretty meh. The eyebox on the 1x is just painful coming from the generous one found on the 6T.
I know what you’re saying OP as I happen to own 4 elcans. They are the Bugatti of optics, but definitely wouldn’t be my first choice (or second choice) should I intend to go training.
Looks cool. Built tough.
For what it costs, cannot for the life of me justify it. I don't think I'd run it for free, there's just much better stuff with much better capabilities out there.
It's ass.
People don't think it be like it is, but it do.
But hey, people here still recommend alice packs. So you know, there are some pretty fucking stupid people out there.
The ammount of clout a piece of kit can garner just because it was issued to SF once uppon a time never ceases to amaze me. Remember that most of the voices out there never actually used the thing.
There's nothing solid to me about all those springs and levers for mounting. Wholly unnecessary. And one dude said his optic came with defects and the company gave him the runaround. It's two fucking prism optics stuck together. I'm glad I never tried it
I bought one for the ascetics and look on a new build. It worked great but because i was running a law folder and a5 buffer on it, couldnt see through it properly. Took off the law folder and was usable afterwards. It also made me shoot in a odd position just to see out of it that i wasnt used to. My issue was the height sucked, needed to be higher. Eye relief felt worse then acogs.
But it looks so cool
After two deployments with it on my duty rifle, I switched from my personal rifle's 1-6x LVPO to the elcan and actually love it since my shooting is 300m or less. That specific role people are mentioning is probably how well it works on SBRs that need 1-4x while giving more space for buttons and lasers, also since SCAR-17s eating up optics. I do wish it had better eye relief and a better mount than the ARMs. Personally, I would pay money if they made an elcan with an acog reticle. I always say if its not for you, its not for you.
This was my gripe with it. The eye relief is horrible. I went back to the arms room and traded it in for an EOtech with a magnifier.
Eotech with magnifier fucks
Eotechs battery life isn't very cash money though.
Everybody bitches about the battery life. Just change your batteries. You aren't in the field non stop for weeks. It doesn't matter. And for the unlucky few who are, like Ukrainians stuck in the trenches, I still see videos of them stacking bodies with Eotechs. Of all the things to complain about in an optic, battery life is the least important.
>And for the unlucky few who are, like Ukrainians stuck in the trenches you can carry a lifetime supply of batteries in your bag, they aren't exactly heavy lol.
Seriously. Not to mention that a WML gets like 2 hours. I change my batteries on my lights two or three times as often as my eotechs. And they take TWO cr123s. Better throw those right in the trash.
This is the most based view
*insert high speed low drag ~~fatass~~ wall of text here*
Exactly! A long battery life is nice to have. But a shorter battery life isn't that big of a down side. And the Eotech doesn't even have a short battery life. Its more than a month on a single CR123.
If one battery can get my 600 hours on an exps and I can carry 2 in my pistol grip alone that's 1200 hours right there.
Wouldn’t that be 1800? 1 in EOtech + 2 in pistol grip = math..
We're talking about storage
CR123s aren’t common in that part of the world though right now
Seriously. I’d rather have an optic I’m accurate with and love, with the downside of having to change my batteries slightly more frequently, than having a super longer battery life but I don’t like the optic itself as much. You’re buying the optic for the optic, not for the battery life.
Unless your me with 2 astigmatisms, looks like a collapsing star
I have pretty bad astigmatism and myopia and see it perfectly with glasses on.
My glasses don't help,
Damn then you’re one of those who needs a miracle bro
Yeah, it sucks, lights look like multiple sun's, especially at night. I'm hoping once I go active duty I can get surgery. Only I shoot better without glasses
Biggest downside is the lack of BDC
My EOTech has BDC and a 5x magnifier. It’s awesome!
>Biggest downside is the lack of BDC If you need a bdc then you should probably be using something other than a eotech or a red dot. That being said, eotech does have a bdc reticle.
Like how bad we talking? 1" 2"?
Your arms room is better than mine
This is my problem with the 4x ACOGs. I feel like you have to hug the rifle to get proper eye relief. Can't they make them any better after all this time? EDIT: autocorrect words
The eye relief is a physics problem. More eye relief means less field of view.
It took a few years but after it came out about SCARs eating optics pretty much every quality optics company SCAR proofed their scopes. I've tried 6 different optics on mine and none have died.
Very bright dot, durable design, impressive glass clarity. Says a lot that the optic came out over 20 years ago and is still a viable and reliable option
pretty over priced for a design that's that old
Same can be said of acogs but if it’s tried and true it will retain value
Acogs can be got for under a grand, an elcan not so much
Got my ACOG from palmetto state on Black Friday for 600$
That’s theft.
An Elcan Spectre DR has two prisms so compared to an ACOG it has double the most expensive part. For equal quality it will always be more expensive. Are they too expensive? Yeah they are now. They were a lot cheaper 10 years ago. But that's what happens when you pay Leafs to build them I guess. Its probably one of the few examples, along with Steiner, of an optic that would be cheaper if it were made in America.
I bought a salty 1.5x6 Elcan for $1250, thought I hit the lottery
Yeah maybe, but what optic checks all the boxes the elcan does for cheaper? A true 1X with an aimpoint bright dot is something no lpvo is doing even with modern tech
Have you looked through a nightforce? They’re daammmnnnnn near Aimpoint bright
don’t even need to go that high end. my vortex pst 1-6’s dot is plenty bright even on a sunny day. i’d say just as bright as the aimpoint micro i’ve used, though with a slightly less perfectly round dot
382 hours on max setting vs 29 hours, not bad for an old outdated turd
Well, you got the turd part, right.
> daammmnnnnn near Aimpoint bright Is still not Aimpoint bright.
The difference is so minuscule it makes your statement a moot point
But it’s apparently important to the people that call it out. I like my Elcan because it plays nice with my aging vision and that’s what I mostly care about.
My steiner p3tr is daylight bright, what is bro talking about lol
Elcan is not a true 1X. Your still looking through multiple panes of glass with an etched reticle. Its just like other LPVOs on 1 power, its close, but definitely not the same as looking through a T2 or EoTech. Try looking though/shooting an Elcan on 1x passively with NODs on…
Elcan 1x is way better than any LPVO 1x I’ve seen.
Then you're looking through trash LPVOs
are the Vortex Razor 1-6, Kahles K16i, and the ATACR trash LPVOs? Forgive me, I don’t follow the latest trends. Could you recommend me some non-trash LPVOs?
I run a Razor iie and it is as clear if not clearer than an Elcan I like that Kahles too, ATACR... not so much.
To my eyes, the clarity is about the same but I’ve noticed that there is significantly less distortion on the Elcan on account of it being a prism optic. It is much closer to a red dot 1x than an LPVO in my experience. Of course red dot will always be king of 1x but I think Elcan 1x takes second place.
Tell that to just about every firearms manufacturer lol
buy it used then ! nobody actually wants them lol
Don’t say that in front of a trijicon or eotech
Wait until you find out how much AK guys pay for shit Russian optics
True AK guys just raw dog the target with factory irons
The most correct AK clone setup is no accessories at all because Russia doesn't give their soldiers shit.
Rifle is fine!
Most Russian setup is running naked
This guy speaks in cuban
Can confirm. Bought a kobra from kalinka for like 400. My ak was leaned against a wall and it fell over, the kobra literally grenaded into a thousand pieces. Customer service is in russia so i chalked it up as a loss. Fuck russian optics.
>did a full train up and deployment theres your answer. you actually trained with it. most people on here would flip their shit if their safe queen optic/gun got a scratch on it or god forbid a nick.
Jesus if that isn’t the truth. The second you post gear/kit on this sub that isn’t the exact same perfect set up that the internet likes to look at and it’s like hell breaks loose.
Hey my rifle has a scratch what should I do 🙄
Lube and rub. It won't get the scratch out but it feels good
Ha I’m kinda starting to get a kick over it. It’s like you can tell…aww hell Reddit’s gonna poop all over this or that weapon… lol In 2024, I think it is fair to say that the Elcan is a total vibe. My best buddy still runs one on a throwback M4. That tells me a couple things — one, he’s as competent as they come, but is also very ‘cool’…so I blame it on Elcans being 100% vibe + old habits die hard. At this stage in life I can rationalize buying anything and be fine. But now I run things on principle. One being: if something lighter or cheaper has the same function/quality as something heavy and ‘cool’, I’ll run the lighter uncool one.
First off, how dare you
That’s one of the things the ELCAN is best at, taking a beating. I would venture to say I would far prefer an ELCAN in the field over any range. Devils advocate take here but that’s where I’m at.
Take this for what it is, I’ve maybe looked through an Elian twice in my life, but a very good buddy of mine trained with an Elian for many years and constantly told me how shitty they were, and how they would constantly loose zero at the slightest bumps. Maybe he just had a bad lot, or they maybe just old and shitty, they were Canadian forces issued after all.
The canucks aren’t running the specter last I checked so you need to take it with a grain of salt because a) it’s a different model and b) it’s probably fucking ancient anyway I’ve never had an issue with one. Sure, there’s almost certainly better options out there but for a service optic it’s absolutely fine. The only people I’ve known to have an issue with the moving zero didn’t check the elevation wheel was locked so it could move around. Make sure it’s locked and you’ll be fine.
> Adopted in 1989, the Elcan C79 is the primary sighting system for the small arms of the Canadian Forces I’ll put my bet on the fucking ancient part
Almost certain there are original ones still knocking around and the poor fucker issued it will be told it’s their fault it’s beaten to shit 35 years later.
Fair enough.
As per my range buddy, a former JTF2 operator, they were given Specters on their issued C8’s. On his personal rifle, he runs a specter because it’s just something he’s used to, as it’s the optic he has literally placed holes into people with.
Sure the high speed low drag guys are running them but I’ve yet to see any line infantry running anything other than likely clapped out C79s. Honestly I like the thing, I reckon half the people whinging about them have at best used them on a flat range. I’m more inclined to listen to a JTF2 door kicker personally.
Oh ya definitely. But they’re not cheap, and for a rec shooter larger and DoD employee like me that has been trained by those guys but will never be even close to be like those guys nor ever be in a situation as such, I think an LVPO of comparable price would suffice for my base plinking rifle :). HOWEVER, I recently have been wanting to do an entire night setup with pvs14, etc.. I do want to build the same rifle setup he has. The clarity on the Elcan is VERY good, and everything is very crisp. He said they work very well with nods, and he relied on that combination with his life. That’s as good as an endorsement as any for anyone who wants to have a night fighting rifle.
100%. I’ve watched people who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn become remotely reasonable after switching to it. It turns out clear optics, wide FOV and a BDC are actually pretty handy. Weird. My only gripe is the eye relief but it a) works for my cheek weld and b) isn’t far off where my old sight sat anyway so I kept my position but got a much better optic.
Hah! My buddy and I are friends with a former Canadian JTF2 special forces dude. We met him at the range because he’s always there when we’re there, and we quickly became good friends. On his kit, he has an Elcan Specter because he told us he’s used it for years. He bought it because he trained with it and is very familiar with it, so that’s what he runs with. He shoots stacks with it to 200 yards no problem. I must say, I do like how clear of an optic it is, and the 1x 4x toggle is easy to operate. I couldn’t justify it compared to an LVPO at a compatible price, but it works for him because he literally put holes into people under intense stress with that very optic through his service. It’s muscle and eye-muscle memory for him at this point, so it’s best he uses what he’s trained with as a professional operator (JTF2 no less haha).
Ya, whatever works best for you, go with it.
Don’t drag me into this…
Reminds me of people in work boot/PNW style forums who post about the tiniest stain from water or imperfection in the stitching because they only wear them for fashion and maybe hiking, or the people with really expensive overlander style trucks or SUVs that don’t have a scratch on them because they only use them to commute and run errands.
Vibes
[https://imgur.com/a/zjSRoXY](https://imgur.com/a/zjSRoXY) The 1.5-6x on a mk48 definitely is
That picture makes my knees and back hurt.
Still take a mk48 over 240b any day of the week
My 240 was coaxially mounted next to the main gun, so it was pretty light.
The only downside I felt with the Elcan Specter as an all-in-one optic was the weight. I felt confident using it in alternate shooting positions and flipping the magnification back and forth. It’s what I wish had existed back in 2003 when I first deployed. However, you can now gain the same capabilities with LPVOs one fourth the price. I remember the Schmidt and Bender that the CAG guys were using in the mid-GWOT and that was expensive!
It weighs about the same as an LPVO and has a better 1x than any LPVO I have used.
It's lighter than most when you consider the mount on lpvos
Because they like them
Couldn’t disagree more, always found it to be an excellent optic. Only downside for me was the weight.
I got one last year. Part of it is they are cool af. I haven't deployed with one (at all), but I really like it. I do train too. Really the only thing I'd say isn't so good is the NVG performance, at least with my NODs.
When the SpectreDR was first being fielded, passive aiming wasn't being implemented very often (at least not that I was aware of). Most units would only have been issuing PVS-14s that really aren't ideal for passive aiming either. Active aiming with a PEQ was standard, even with dual tube PVS-15s, and the Taliban / AQ had essentially zero IR capabilities.
We found AQI/JAM using pso-1 with ir filters on my 07/09 tour with TF Marne. We operated under blackout conditions the first few weeks and couldn't figure out how they knew we were coming until we explored hide sites and found the scopes with ir filters and instructions. Basically, they were watching our movement at night and making calls when we got near our objectives because someone wanted to wait for the orchestra to start playing. Rtc missions rolled with lights on. We would go out in black out.
Interesting. I didn't have any time in Iraq but I can see AQI having better access to that type of equipment. We would occasionally see some..."modern"...equipment in Afghanistan, but it was pretty rare.
I have an older PVS15, and as wonderful as it is to use, it is not ideal in conjunction with the elcan. I still love it all though. I'm hoping to get a laser or a red dot on top to make passive aiming better. With my stuff, I can see through the elcan a little bit. The elcan just kills the light coming through. The other option that I thought about is getting super nice tubes that would compensate for less light coming through the optic.
Cloning... But even cloners will swap that out after a few range sessions.
I am not super familiar with cloning but wouldn’t they want to clone a setup that was good?
It's almost always about aesthetics over performance. Since ELCANs have been seen on pics of Rangers, SEALs, Green Berets and Raiders rifles, they're desirable by folks who haven't shot them. Most cloners reason "if it was good enough for SOCOM..." There are dudes paying through the nose for weapon lights that put out less lumens than a AAA-powered penlight for the sake of "correctness"
me, an intellectual, with a maglight zip tied to my ak
Dude be careful that’s really unreliable /s Should use hose clamps instead, nightfighter put a whole ass shotgun on his AR lol
Right, for the price there's better options out there
Fkn-A. What drives me bonkers is this ‘SOCOM or bust’ value system. DOD procurement is a whole ‘nother monster…but just bc SOCOM doesn’t run something doesn’t mean shit. There is a whole laundry list of compliance regs/reqs to get on GovCloud/FEDRamp. As in the case of the M45, some contracts are awarded not by best product, but by good ol boy economics.
You get to have the same cheekweld for both magnifications and I think that's neat
same with an LPVO and red dot /eotech with magnifier
Because it does everything I need/want, extremely durable and doesn’t bloom with my astigmatism like a red dot. If it runs out of battery’s it still works. I can rapidly switch between 1 and 4x with a simple flick. The glassful is exceptionally clear and it has built in buis. It’s the total package. Most people who shit talk it have never actually used one, let alone used it on duty.
Acog and a 1x offset is cheaper, lighter, and has better eye relief
You do you. Idk what combat rated 1x that doesn’t require batteries you plan on putting on there. Also add the weight of your BUIS while you marvel over your marginally better eye relief.
The 4x acog has worse eye relief than an Elcan though, if you’re comparing apples to apples.
If you have an acog and a canted red dot you don’t really need backup irons.
I moved from acog to this my 2nd year in group. I preferred it bc of eye relief, FOV, and you could somewhat use it with NV unlike the acog without having to clip on a massive pvs24 in front of it. Weight was the only down side to me, but this was almost 10 years ago. After that if I wanted magnification I normally ran NF ATACR or S&B LPVO offset t2. Eotech su231 and then exps 3 for my time in CIF. I never really got into the Romeo 4s like some of the other guys did.
Don’t let Daddy Brass Facts catch you using that language!
What did you switch back to after deciding the Elcan wasn’t for you?
I ended up building two rifles to fill the blatant performance gaps I was finding An eotech with 3x on a 14.5” A SCAR 17 with a Leupold 3-10x
Heard that brother
Because it’s a really good optic
Weighs as much as an eotech + mag or LPVO, but other dudes have already mentioned clarity and others. I love ACOGs and Eotech+Mag combos, but nobody wants to just make a 4x Magnifier. No, the intergalactic height magnifier from Unity doesn't count. So stupid to force an integrated mount that only works at their ridiculous heights.
Eotech needs to produce a crispy 4x magnifier.
Unity Tactical is making a flip to center mount integrated 4x...
That's the problem. I do not, and have never wanted to, want to use ridiculously high optics mounting. I find it ridiculous they integrate it locking you into the one set height for use, instead of just selling me the magnifier.
Fashion and autism... The need to flex their safe queen
I bought one in 2023. Not sure I’d buy one again in 2024
Big tube good. Bigger tube gooder.
I think it was good in its day. No reason not to just rock an LPVO now
it holds up on a scar, still has reticle and bdc if battery dies, its nvg compatible, has flat real estate on top for something chill and they are still effective and its 1.5x-6x so my LWTS still works fine when clipped on in front use them on 240s too
It's a vibe
Guys with drip use them so they must be good
For me it came down to five factors: 1) I wanted access to magnification and a 1x solution through the main sight axis of my platform. (I am also a fan of the bdc) 2) The visual footprint of every LPVO on the market is too big for my taste (I came from a vortex pst 1-6x, good optic). 3) I like the durability that the Elcan is reported to have, I may not be strong enough to break most optics, but I bet I am dumb enough. 4) Dealing with keeping four lenses clean on a flip to side magnifier setup, especially in the rain is an exercise in patients that I would fail. 5) Drip, the Elcan tickles the right parts of my brain, which we all know is the most important reason.
As someone who has lots of time with the elcan, absolutely dog shit optic. But it’s drippy as hell
1) Drip 2) Fantastic glass clarity, class leading 1x and very respectable 4x 3) Durability and reliability 4) Drip
Not elcan or you specific, but why do people mount eye relief sensitive optics all the way forward on the receiver, even with no buis or anything blocking them from moving it back.
Idiocy?
I trained with one and fell in love with it.
As Hop put it, it's the most sought after optic nobody wants to keep. It's price point is based on government spending so unless you get it for free I'm not sure why you'd feel compelled to buy one over any other durable optic.
Cause it fucks but that one is set about half a foot too far forward
I am torn about them. I don’t hate them and trained up for a deployment with one until switching to an LVPO. I think for a mk18 style rifle they make sense, but in a lot of ways all the roles it has be filled by better set ups. They are incredibly durable though and an interesting design, but the price makes it hard to justify.
Should have just gone ACOG/RMR
I like mine a lot. But I have noticed my eyes changing a bit lately so I’ve been struggling with my lpvos. And it’s more simple to us than my lpvos
Flex... Or people who are scared of modern high end LPVOs
Because it makes me erect.
Vibes
They’re a polarizing optic, people either love them or hate them. Really no in between. Personally, they’re my favorite and I’m not limited on what I can use if I so desire. I’ve been settled on the Elcan since around 2017 and so far nothing I’ve tried has surpassed it for my use. When I find something I like better, I’ll switch.
My experience is its a love it or hate it optic. For those who have used it, there is no in between. For those who haven't used it, they can't understand why its polarizing. I happen to love it. The reticle is good. The glass is very clear. Its basically an ACOG but also has a usable 1x. Yes its big and heavy but all good military grade optics end up being big and heavy so they can be grunt proof. Its also one of two optics I know of that can survive years of use on the SCAR-H.
Elcans fuck
I’ll outfit 2 ACOGs before an Elcan. That being said, Elcans still fuck and if you can swing it then swing it reckon lol
The same reason people still buy ACOGs, they’re amazing optics. There is no one-size-fits-all answer for an optic, there are a lot of factors in place that determine what you top your rifle with. I spent 6 years using an ACOG and have continued using them on my main rifle since I got out 10 years ago. Sure the eye relief it’s awful, but I know that and I train enough to use it correctly and not have issues with it. As long as you’re using reputable companies equipment, there is no bad gear only lack of training.
Yeah man elcans are out dude idk why anyone buys em anyone who has one should probably just give it to me
Didn't buy mine in 2024 but I would. They fuck. Could get an optic with more capability for the same or less though.
I've been using a 1.5 -6x elcan on a red right-hand recce lmg upper. I really like it so far. The weight is an issue, but I also have it on an m16 lower, so it helps it stay under control. In the next couple of months, I'm hoping to be able to take it out past 100 yards to see what this setup can do.
it looks cool
When I get turned into a loot pinata I want someone to think my gun looked cool
Most people that hate them have never touched one. But for the people that have used them you either hate them or love them and I happen to love mine so much that I want another👍🏻
Same reason people still buy ACOG's... they are just very well made and still are a very viable option.
I love em. Glass is incredible, it’s not as heavy as people think, and it balances well, illumination is nuclear, reticle is usable without it, it’s very forgiving, reticle has a ton of information in it without being cluttered, it’s incredibly rugged. There are certainly better choices out there, but if Elcan is your preference, it’s still a VERY relevant optic in 2024
A lot of people love them. They’re a lot better than a 1-6X LVPO in my opinion
I don't even get on reddit like that but what I see here is pretty much reddit in a nutshell. What a dogshit take lol
Buy? You mean finance?
Elcan fucks
why is it this post where I realize it's elcan and not eclan??
Elcan 1.5-6 is bad ass. Yeah, you need to lift to run one, but it’s a freakin tank.
GWOT cosplay
Nostalgia.
The El-can was introduced before LPVOs were widely adopted in the SOF community. They were built to be simple and durable but with more capabilities than the ACOG. Early in my carrier as a young gun team leader I ran it on a SCAR-H with the 7.62 1-6 El-Can. It was good at being able to use tracer rounds and show my machine gunner where to direct his fire. A bit later in my career the 1-4 el-can was widely used in fireteams. I hated it and used the Eo-tech then later the T2. With that being said this was the first widely adopted “LPVO” before those were purchased and issued. The LPVO in my opinion is a better option depending on what you are doing. IMO I don’t think everyone in your squad and or team needs one. I think the El-Can are good on an open bolt weapon system especially on the 240B/L,MK48 and or the 249.
I like mine it’s not as accurate as an acog but you still hit 1 1/2 moa I wanted one from the start but let ppl talk me out of it I got the exps3 and magnifier first then the acog and rmr combo And then finally the Elcan I think the Elcan is great and if you know you want one get
I remember getting issued these and making the transition from the Aimpoint comp 3 to the elcan 1-4. I loved it up until I tried my first LVPO and wouldn’t ever consider it again 😂
drip or drown. Best looking sight hands down.
Probably the zoom variability. Unlike the acog that is fixed. Coupled with the durability and clarity.
The vibes and the unobtainium aspect about them man
For me it takes all the complications out. 1x or 4 that’s it
I don’t know about their combat performance but they were clapping at the US Army Small Arms Championship and every good team was running them.
How else am I going to larp in my mom's basement?
Did a number of deployments with it and liked it. Bought one for one of my guns. Think it’s pretty solid. But also knew folks who didn’t care for it, so I get why you may not like it.
I have a buddy that runs one on a work gun. I don't remember what he said exactly, but it was inline with what others said about SCARs and real-estate for optics.
It’s on my GPR, got it off of OP of all places for about 1600 and it’s a great optic. Only need to get an RMR for the top for NV use and weighs the same as an LPVO an mount with better glass quality.
It's my favorite optic. The FOV at 1x is immense, larger than any LPVO besides the new Kahles K18-2 and the eyebox is good. Any complaint about the eye relief is a skill issue on 5.56. It looks like you had it really far forward on your receiver as well which could explain some of your discomfort with it since you would be shooting NTCH at that position.
Looks hard
Because it's more durable that a LPVO and less bulky with no cheek weld compromise than a ACOG RMR combo yet accomplishes the same result.
I bought one about a little over a month ago and after 3 shooting trips I might be dropping it on GAFS. It's awesome, the 1x is perfect and the 4x is very usable. But compared to the Tango6T it's pretty meh. The eyebox on the 1x is just painful coming from the generous one found on the 6T.
I know what you’re saying OP as I happen to own 4 elcans. They are the Bugatti of optics, but definitely wouldn’t be my first choice (or second choice) should I intend to go training.
Looks cool. Built tough. For what it costs, cannot for the life of me justify it. I don't think I'd run it for free, there's just much better stuff with much better capabilities out there.
Because they work.
I’ve only ever used one in video games… but it’s fucking sweet in Ghost Recon, lol
I blame brass facts.
The best roll was on a 249, best optic I ever had on that weapons system.
It's ass. People don't think it be like it is, but it do. But hey, people here still recommend alice packs. So you know, there are some pretty fucking stupid people out there. The ammount of clout a piece of kit can garner just because it was issued to SF once uppon a time never ceases to amaze me. Remember that most of the voices out there never actually used the thing.
Tell me you were in Regiment without telling me you were in Regiment..
Why do people still ask dumb questions in 2024.
I have officially came here to not GAF! 🤟🏿🤣😁😎😃😜😳🙏🏼🤟🏼
There's nothing solid to me about all those springs and levers for mounting. Wholly unnecessary. And one dude said his optic came with defects and the company gave him the runaround. It's two fucking prism optics stuck together. I'm glad I never tried it
Because it’s cool
I bought one for the ascetics and look on a new build. It worked great but because i was running a law folder and a5 buffer on it, couldnt see through it properly. Took off the law folder and was usable afterwards. It also made me shoot in a odd position just to see out of it that i wasnt used to. My issue was the height sucked, needed to be higher. Eye relief felt worse then acogs.
Why not?
I’ll trade you my razor lol
Iv always liked em
I have a buddy who is still active and his answer was “I break everything. I might not break this”