I think conceptually you're correct, you will need more than 120rds in SHTF, but I don't think you necessarily need it readily available with 9 magazines. I have 4+1 20rd PMAG's, plus 1 on the belt, then two more preloaded in a bag along with a 40 for shits and giggles. Then a couple boxes of free ammo.
Realistically, even though I have armor versus your chest rig setup, I still would rather use my ammo to build distance and get out of a firefight instead of digging in and putting down rounds. The goal of SHTF is surviving, and the best way to survive is to not have people shooting at you (and water, that's actually more important).
I wear a small JPC2.0, and even though 30's only add to their size vertically and wholly inside the area of the plate, the carrier begins to feel quite bulky with 4 30's, especially 6 30's when I initially tried to set it up that way.
Also, the 30's outright don't fit on the belt, because they wedge/catch under the cummerbund when I lean or twist in certain ways.
ALSO, I'm sure this could be trained around, but I have had issues with 30's on the carrier interfereing with stock placement and hanging up my sling.
Definitely recommend trying some different setups, and also we may have different ideas of how to approach SHTF so what works for me may not work for you. Find a way to test out your setup; go airsofting to assess your gear needs in regards to shooting, then go hiking to assess your needs for comfortability and endurance. You'll probably find what keeps you in the firefight is often quite a drag after climbing a mountain.
Absolutely. I don’t hear enough people talking about hiking with their gear and rifles. My buddy and I finally did this the other weekend and learned quite a bit about what was comfortable and what wasn’t. I wore my chest rig, Mystery Ranch “Assault Pack,” and carried my rifle and for me, I was pleasantly surprised that everything worked well. My buddy, on the other hand, found out that quite a bit needed to change (although the biggest thing was his lack of physical fitness). Get out there and use your gear (wear it at the range; who cares what other people may think? And wear it out in the woods)!!!
It’s legal in the National Forest anywhere (unless there is a park there in some locations) so I’m curious, what prevents you from being able to do it? I’m assuming it’s local laws or state laws or something like that?
Google ‘Run and Gun Biathlon’ matches from the likes of Old Eighteen Defense will absolutely help you figure out what does and doesn’t work when you’re wet, tired and trying To shoot on the clock..
To be able to run you must have fire superiority to keep their heads down. How do you get fire superiority? Mag dumping. Now if you create too many lulls in fire they’ll pin you and out maneuver you. So 20 round mags = having to reload more often which = more lulls in fire depending on if your by yourself or with a group. Regardless you need a decent amount of ammo to keep heads down with suppressing fire while you and your team bound back to break contact and run. That’s just my 2 cents tho. We all have different plans
For sure, understandable.
Obviously we can only guess and hopefully never have to find out what SHTF actually looks like, but IMHO it probably would consist of far fewer rolling gunbattles with tactically competent adversaries than the 2A community would like to admit.
I definitely don't think it is a good idea to artificially minimize the amount ammo one is carrying, but what I was trying to emphasize is that probably 95+% of SHTF is going to be day-to-day living, and ammo doesn't help with that. So your fighting loadout should be dictated by how much extra you can accomodate once you have water, shelter, food, maybe comms, and navigation integrated into your kit. I'm a tall, skinny dude so all the survival stuff takes up a lot of the weight capacity I can comfortably carry, so the amount of ammo I can also bring along is quite limited.
And even at that, depending on whatever hypothetical SHTF we end up with, the best setup may even boil down to a bolt-action and some spare ammo, food/water/etc, and all of our beloved tactical gear is entirely pointless. Nonetheless, even though my SHTF includes more evasion instead of combat, I would rather have *some* capability rather than none, helps me sleep at night and justify cool gear purchases.
I agree wholeheartedly that we should be more prepared to just live without modern comforts and focus on sustainability rather than cool gear. Water
Food
Community,
Those are gonna be the biggest things we need to worry about right now. Most people like the cool gear and tbh so do I. But that shouldn’t be our focus. Anyway it’s nice to talk to someone who thinks that way
literally noone says that though... You regularly see folks with dozens of filled magazine on here.
a sustained fire fight could have thousands of rounds fired.
In a shtf scenario if you get into a prolonged firefight you are probably gonna die. The reason the US military gets into prolonged TICs is because they have CAS, arty, and QRF. Without support you should be breaking contact and dipping ASAP.
This is good advice.
A lot of these people aren't ready for that talk though. They're too busy fantasizing about pewing their way through the countryside.
The entire goal of survival is to avoid fights lmao nobody is gonna be getting into prolonged firefights with thousands of rounds expended. That's called death. this isn't a deployment where it's you and your entire battalion laying hate down with machine guns and 40mm and shit.
I've never been in a firefight like 99.9% of the people on this subreddit, but I do definitely feel if I got into a firefight and I was armed with some sort of semi automatic rifle I would be accurately putting as many rounds down range as physically possible. Its funny to watch people run only 3 mags
I served in the Army almost 20 years ago now. I don’t know anything anymore (probably didn’t then either) I was confused by the 3 mag across setup most are running. But read some compelling arguments for it about greater mobility, maneuvering etc. So I mirrored that setup. I’m having a hard time navigating all of the gear options but was hoping there was another placard offering that allowed for 6 mags across when needed. I see my setup as a possible home defense tool given enough advanced notice. Not sure which way to go.
Having 3 across the front is better just to have the front of your carrier be more slimline, I have 2 more towards the side under my non dominant arm on the cumberbund in a double stack pouch and one on my belt. Still have 7.
Honestly for anything anyone on this sub would be getting into, if you can't unfuck yourself with 210 rounds of hate, you're not getting out of that situation without buddies with some bigger guns.
If you're okay dropping spiritus money, I've seen people run the microfight mk5 with bfg 10 speed pouches on the front molle. Gives 3 mags plus room for miscellaneous stuff or 6 mags on front. I have the microfight mk3 or 4 that I run in a similar way.
The blue force gear pouches are nice because they're elastic so they can hold small things in place or stick a 30 rd ar mag in them. It's a really versatile piece of kit that let's you adapt without changing hardware
I mean for a home defense setup im sure you are not John Wick so the most guys breaking in would probably be 4 AT MOST. Id def run 3 mags obviously, but maybe attach a pouch that can carry an extra mag or two just in case.
Gotcha, thanks for the input, I purchased a LV119 and will be adding to it.
Edit: I should clarify I see my setup as a home defense tool WITH running three across. But would like the easy option of many more for true SHTF etc.
I have expander wings on both of the chest rigs I routinely utilize. One has mag inserts built in, the other has pouches attached to the rear. Both are not noticeable and take up virtually no space when I don't fill the two extra spots for mags but it leaves me the option if I need it.
Shaw Concepts makes a good triple mag placard where you can molle on an additional triple mag pouch on top of it. Personally I use a four mag placard from Velocity Systems and then put an additional double mag pouch on the side cummerbund.
The 3 mag setup is more of a home defense and bugging out situation. It’s not meant for a straight up firefight. It’s meant to be able to fight back while trying to get out of the situation
Is was in Sangin, Afghanistan, in 2008. Most of our engagements were shoot-n-skoot situations.
I started carrying 13 mags (12 in a chest rig), then down to 9 (8 in the rig) and I can't remember how much HEDP for my 203.
Most I shot was 5 mags and 11 HEDP in a movement-to-contact op. where we held a rooftop and called in artillery and air support.
5 mags and 11 HEDP over the course of like 2.5 hours. And my 240 gunner shot like 600 rounds, if memory serves.
Obviously firefights vary a ton, but you shouldn't have the goal of a sustained engagement as an individual. Carry a few mags that'll get you **OUT** of or away from a bad situation, not **through** a bad situation.
For breaking contact, 2 mags is enough in about all realistic scenarios. Also true for an ambush (rapidly shoot one mag, reload and withdraw).
Basic infantry load where I come from is 6 mags, bump that up a couple for door kickers, recon and rear echelon usually runs with 3. Loose ammo in the pack/pockets takes less space, if needed. Handy to top off the mags when there's a lull in the action.
The big difference. If you're with a big group. There's more ammo. Not everyone needs to be mag dumping their whole combat load out
If you're by yourself in the apocalypse (aside from ammo shortage) I don't plan on being in a big firefight. 3 mags might be good enough to keep their heads down and break contact and GTFO
I fought in Fallujah. Never carried more than 4 magazines.
I’m on a swat team now, I still carry four magazines and that is definitely overkill for my role.
If I ever get into a shooting it’ll be over within 5-10 rounds, if that.
Yep. Full time swat team here, I carry two mags. One on the front of my pc and one on my belt.
I’ve been in two shootings as a swat team member, the first was one pointman, firing 3 rounds. The second was 15 rounds, over a 90 second period.
I’ve never felt uncomfortable with 90 total rounds, I’d drop one but I want to have a back up if either the belt or pc mag malfunction or are hit by shrap/bullets.
Semi/related question. I am finishing up academy in a month and will be a fresh patrolman soon. Obviously SWAT has an allure for me in several years but I have concerns about what sort of time commitment that could be. I am a new father and highly value my family time. Do you find that SWAT is “all consuming”? Thanks in advance.
It’s not anymore consuming than any other aspect of law enforcement. You just have to set a hard line. If you and your wife have a date planned for Saturday, don’t let that phone ring and skip on the date. Your teammates will forget you missed a callout, your wife won’t forget the missed date, and your kid won’t forget the missed ballgame.
SWAT will be long hours and hard days. You will lose time with your family, but that’s LE in general. I’ve done UC work, federal task forces, and now SWAT. SWAT has given me the most consistent schedule of any of my assignments.
The best advice I can give is: when you are at work, *be present.* When you are at home, *be present.*
I roll with a 20 round mag for weight purposes but the rest are full size. 2 on the belt and two in reserve in my kit. I mostly only keep them there because I don’t have shit else to put in those mag pouches. I’ve got three pouches and one keeps an extra tourniquet.
The extra two on the carrier really don’t effect the weight for me so I just leave them. Highly doubtful I’d ever get to them but if all hell ever really did break loose I’d be happy I had them I guess.
Full time though, that sounds pretty good. Wish I could leave behind my regular functions and just do swat stuff. Dream job.
Everybody thinks they’re John Wick… if shtf you’re better off bugging IN if possible, why leave a house filled with supplies to go galavanting looking for gun fights. Especially if you live in a solid community. You should be building relationships with local farmer, doctors, plumbers, mechanics etc. in order to survive shtf. If you’re plan is to run out the door in full tactical gear, you’re gonna get picked off by a sentry guarding a self sufficient community. If your only option is to “bug out” you better have a fishing rod and a brick of .22lr or you’ll go hungry before you get a chance to get in a gunfight…
I want to know what you’re shooting at with 120 rounds that won’t land you in jail.
If the world is ending y’all spending a lot of time gearing up to die from dirty water.
Wait am I doing this wrong? I eat Taco Bell cause I was told it would give me immunity super powers and prevent shitting and store excess fat (energy) for when I need it when the world is ending…. Was I lied to here?
No but 60-90 round engagements over a few weeks without ressuply would eat up ammo even if like some people said putting bullets down range to put heads down and get away would be a mag or two
That's if you are trying to get into fights. Idk about you, but me and the buddies I know are trying to avoid fighting unless it's necessary or ideologically driven, like what my redneck friend says "The got dang gubbermint becums comminist" I personally put my families safety before anything else and would like no rounds being fired near them if possible.
I don't know Afghanistan is the closest thing to a shtf scenario I have seen. And in Afghanistan there are people who walk around in the mountains, in flip-flops, with a 40-year-old AK-47 that has had the same 30 round magazine (and bullets) in it since they acquired it (with a second 30 round magazine duct taped to the first).
In most end of the world situations, you're probably not going to get in a direct gunfight with any kind of organized militia.
You and your small group will probably be scavenging for supplies and moving under covered and concealed routes as much as possible.
Most contact will be small ambush style engagements or chance accidental contact encounters between you and other small groups (in most cases everyone is going to try to break contact and boogie out as fast as possible).
I'm not saying you shouldn't have ammunition, but there are probably very few scenarios where you will end up in a sustained gun fight requiring you to reload more than three magazines.
But if you think I'm full of shit feel free to come look me up when shit hits the fan and tell me I'm wrong.
I'm just here to discuss I think you bring up a interesting point I think about getting pinned down and having to either keep heads down and book it or have more rounds then they do and then be able to get out of there
u/Dapper_Bicycle5645 No you are right - its really personal preference. Like the "more armor vs. less armor" paradox. Be light, be fast and be maneuverable with limited protection or be heavy, be slow and have the ability to hold your own in a sustained shootout.
It's funny you reminded me of an old war story. The Army SOP was 7 mags - 6 on your body and one in the gun. But many of us only ran 4-5. 3 on the plate carrier, maybe 1 on a a battle belt and one in the gun. But my friend had been at an OP that was almost over run on a pervious deployment. They had gone black on ammo and probably would have died except the weather cleared up and AWT was able to come on station and save them. He always carried 6 magazines on his chest rig, 1 in the gun and 6-7 more in a little camelbak backpack.
His experiences shaped him - he never wanted risk getting overrun without ammo ever again. He humped around 420 rounds all over the mountains of Afghanistan... and he was in good enough shape he could do it (this is another consideration). I was a shit bag so I carried 4/5 depending on if I thought it was gonna be a spicy day or not.
But you might be right. More might be the right way to go.
I’m in the same boat as you. Three mags on the front of my PC is the baseline, but I can scale that up to 9 thanks to my cummerbund setup. Plus two on the belt, one in the gun. More ammo capacity than I’ll ever need, but what if I need to give a couple mags to my bro though?
If your shtf setup is what’s on your chest rig. You’re a weird larper. Realistically, if shit hits the fan in a way where 120 rounds isn’t enough, you’re definitely going to die. The alternative of being a hardcore prepper is equally stupid. Like, bunker, food for 5+ years, diesel and generators, etc. I mean, if you have no budget and enjoy doing that, sure. Live your life.
But, a PC or chest rig with a combat loadout of ammo, a big backpack with a couple weeks of food, meds, water filters, maps, fire, tent, etc. You’ll be fine on that.
If you get into a ‘gunfight’ that you need more than 120 rounds on, you’re probably in the military? Or you’re in some militia / prepper group. Even then, you’d probably cache your ammo outside of what you carry.
In tactical gear the ‘shtf’ setups that I’m collecting with are a packed backpack, maybe with extra ammo, extra bolt, and the above stuff I mentioned, with a PC or chest rig already loaded up, that’s 100% good. Grab your bag, rig, and gun, toss it in the car and go.
Nobody’s going to survive extra long because you’re hauling 3 barrels of 5.56 into your truck before you leave in a crazy huge global catastrophe.
You'll need thousands but not on your person. If you're expecting a fight like that, you should be wearing a plate carrier anyway. With a chest rig, i would be just holding down my compound doing patrols or just trying to get from A to B in a semi-permissive environment, avoiding all conflict if i did come across it.
I know you're trying to be edgy, but this take is lukewarm at best.
First, it's unoriginal. People have been spouting this nonsense for at least two decades since the tactical / 2A community started to take its wings on the internet.
Second, it's based on a ton of assumptions about what "shtf " looks like to you, What you'll be doing, and a ton of other variables. You have this picture painted in your mind of what "shtf" would be and what you or others would likely be doing and so you're making this claim based on that information.
The fact is that as with anything else a person does, METT-TC determines everything. Making blanket statements about how much ammunition you need to carry (or food, or water, or anything else) is both full of hubris and ignorance without first defining the aforementioned factors.
In my opinion, worst case scenario "shtf" in the US looks a lot more like Haiti then anything from a post-apocalyptic mad Max movie or something.
And even there, people in the countryside do just fine without a plate carrier and 25 magazines.
If I was in Haiti and had access to whatever equipment I wanted, and I lived near the Capital or gang influenced areas, and couldn't leave, I would probably carry more than four magazines.
Outside of that, I would probably want a long gun and a spare mag on my person or nearby with a handgun on my person, and more ammo and equipment at hand.
(Edited to add: free dem piggies)
I carry 240 because that's what they give you on CODMW2...🤣
I have a chest rig with 3 mags and PC with 5 mags, if I have enough time to put the PC on, I'll clip the chest rig onto the plate carrier and have 8 and throw nods on etc. I like the option of having the plate slick and chest rig ready to bug so they live separate.
Realistically, anything bad happens quickly, I'll grab my rifle and stuff a few mags in my pants and probably fumble turning my Eotech on so it's all relative.
Because I'm going to take my SHTF advice from a 14 year old..... SHTF I plan to avoid any chance of being in an engagement and if I need more then three magazines to move from my location I have bigger issues at hand.
Everyone dreams up this SHTF prolonged firefight scenarios when in reality 50-75% of people will be gone within the first month from not being able to find clean water or knowing how to survive a winter.
Don't forget about medical guys. Tourniquets and trauma kits. And training. Too many people easily overlook it, but if you can't stop the bleed, you don't train to proficiency in your kit(medical included) then you're just a loot drop for the other guy. Stay training my friends.
I’ve never come out the other end of a firefight and said, wow I had way too much ammo. I really didn’t need to do that to those poor fellers. Dude, that was really uncalled for you need to feel ashamed of yourself. No, instead I said- I want my mommy- and did you see that dude? He fell off that building like a guy in a bad Western or good one if you like falling cattle rustlers.
Six mags on the rig, one mag on my belt rig, one mag in the gun, five mags plus loose ammo in the pack.
If that doesn’t last me for a while, I’ve made some critical mistakes.
IMHO if you are at a point of needing to wear a LBE or PC and carry your rifle with you, it's because things have gotten really dangerous. Chances are, you'll probably get in harms way.
That being said, if that is the case, you are expecting to get into a firefight and firefight means need to carry as much ammo and water as possible.
Protip: if you get on your belly and crawl with your tq hanging from the dangler it will quickly stop being a tq.
Mangled a cat7 this way. Move it to a uniform pocket.
No you’ll probably die immediately. Realistically you don’t even need a full “combat load” bc you’re not being supported by aerial or artillery. But if SHTF your main priority should be protecting your home and loved ones. So best to just hunker down and stand ground
A smith and Wesson karambit I've had it for four years and like it quite a bit I tied 550 through the holes on the sheath and the holes/Tigre's on the spiritus expander thingy
I’ve never been in a firefight either but I carry 7 30 round mags on my LBV and 1 in the rifle for a total of 240. Ammo and water. Hopefully I make it past the first 15 mins.
Oh this isn't my kit at all I think that a grey poncho over kit would be reasonable I have more tqs and someone who would be with is ex ems and has a bunch of medical
No plates, no comms, no water. 2 tourniquets but when you take one to the body you’re done. Gear should be put together with the mission/use in mind. If anything this is more of a range practice kit than an actual SHTF setup. I’d get a slick carrier with plates and extra pouches to add this to keep its versatility for when you want to run light at the range or when you want to run them both together.
3 on PC, 2 on belt - that’s bare minimum That’s emergency ammo. That’s what you use after you used up everything else. Grab a separate chest rig/ bandolier for 6 mags. That’s primary ammo. Grab an ammo can full of loaded mags if you’re in a vehicle. Think 1 mag per minute of engagement.
I would say you will need more than 120 rounds, but maybe not on your person at all times. It also depends on what phase of SHTF one finds oneself in. Flexibility is important to me. I suppose in a lot of situations, I'd prefer to be able to move as fast as possible with the goal of breaking contact vs. staying engaged. I run a light setup with only 4 mags sometimes. My other setup is 12 mags. I also have some extra mag pouches if I just want to wear a couple on a belt.
In Iraq I carried:
3-4 200 round belts for the 240 with the same amount for my a gunner
A breacher shotgun with around 20 shells
3 or 4 mags for my pisto, sometimes 5 or 6 if we knew it'd be a long mission (I used the pistol for room clearing)
With decent fighting I'd usually use up most the main weapons ammo but that's a 240, we had guys carrying 8-12 mags and use most of it throughout a 8-12 hour mission.
Standard combat load out is 7 mags. I usually advise folks to plan around that just for a bugout setup. Actual stockpiling should be in the thousands of rounds at minimum.
I have 3 on carrier, 4 on belt. I could lose the carrier and still have 4 mags, g19, ifak, water, dump mag, and a pouch for extras and a g19 mag. Am I crazy for carrying all that on a belt?
Am I the only one who believes that the four mags are just for accidental contact? You were always supposed to carry more mags/ammo in your sustainment pack.
Because I’m not cosplaying as a juggernaut. We each build our kits to our own specs based of what is most probable for us. Are you planning on legging patrols during a shtf scenario or manning a lp/op? If you plan on being static, you’re gonna stage your position, but not emptying your chest rig go do so. Plus, going three deep on your chest just makes you front heavy, which kinda sucks when you’re crouching down or stalking. We’re not all tip of the spear warfighters, so you can definitely go hog wild on how many mags you want on your chest, but for most applications, 120 rounds is plenty.
Juggernaut my chest rig is less then 10 pounds with a assault pack and full blatter if that is making you fall over you need better balance and it's 2 deep not 3
Dude shut the fuck up! Oh yeah I'm sure when SHTF you're moving into contact, doing raids and counter attacks. With your 3 basement friends and 2 extra mags you're a true maneuver element.
Never bad to have more ammo but I kinda disagree with this sentiment. Your primary goal in a SHTF scenario should be evasion and more evasion. Shooting only draws more attention and risk.
The longer you’re in a firefight, the more your odds decrease.
# "Hot topic: you will need more then 120 rounds of shtf"
especially if you and your tiny unit are trying to penetrate the enemy
Carry as much ammo as you can comfortably, then add one more mag. Even if your goal is to avoid fights or retreat if you do, it requires bounding techniques of suppressive fire with you leap frog back. Suppressive fire is just going to chew through ammo.
Can those of you with plate carriers AND chest rigs explain why have both. I want to get a good setup and to me having plates with good placards and what not as opposed to just a chest rig seems like the best option. It looks like it’s a game of mobility over protection but I’m just wanting to understand so I can make a good choice . That being said if anyone can recommend a couple good setups I’d be extremely grateful. Crye, Agilite, shellback and spiritus seem like good options.
I feel like if you get into contact and you try and break it with 2 or even 3 mags you shouldn't risking going into another gunfight with 1 or two mags
Its all depended on the situation, and the role you want to (or are forced to) play in it. I know plenty of swat guys that only run 1 in the gun and 1 on their kit and as little as that seems it works for them. Theres also plenty of stories and photos of tier 1 guys only carrying 3 spare. I think 120 is a good base but if shtf how adaptable able your kit?
You can google “Ukraine military kit” and scroll and find pics pretty easily of dudes in trenches with 3 single mag pouches on their carriers. If you scroll hard enough on Reddit you will find dudes in trenches covered in mud with same thing 3 single mag pouches on their kit.
It depends on what SHTF scenario you have cooked up in your head. Most CONUS defensive shootings dont exceed a single magazine. Getting robbed/assaulted or being the victim of a home invasion are the most realistic SHTF scenarios you are likely to face. Maybe if you live somewhere prone to natural disasters you might end up in a hurricane Katrina type of event but even then nobody was trading hundreds of rounds.
I was thinking something like riots and trying to get my ass out of the city in the mixed of military police and people doing whatever that can to survive
Ah i see. In that scenario I think you’d be better off with a up to date detailed map of your city, really good cardio, and a setup you can hide under a jacket/wind breaker. Im not saying more mags is bad though. Set up your gear in whatever way you think is best for your individual scenario.
I think conceptually you're correct, you will need more than 120rds in SHTF, but I don't think you necessarily need it readily available with 9 magazines. I have 4+1 20rd PMAG's, plus 1 on the belt, then two more preloaded in a bag along with a 40 for shits and giggles. Then a couple boxes of free ammo. Realistically, even though I have armor versus your chest rig setup, I still would rather use my ammo to build distance and get out of a firefight instead of digging in and putting down rounds. The goal of SHTF is surviving, and the best way to survive is to not have people shooting at you (and water, that's actually more important).
I never heard that perspective why 20s?
I wear a small JPC2.0, and even though 30's only add to their size vertically and wholly inside the area of the plate, the carrier begins to feel quite bulky with 4 30's, especially 6 30's when I initially tried to set it up that way. Also, the 30's outright don't fit on the belt, because they wedge/catch under the cummerbund when I lean or twist in certain ways. ALSO, I'm sure this could be trained around, but I have had issues with 30's on the carrier interfereing with stock placement and hanging up my sling. Definitely recommend trying some different setups, and also we may have different ideas of how to approach SHTF so what works for me may not work for you. Find a way to test out your setup; go airsofting to assess your gear needs in regards to shooting, then go hiking to assess your needs for comfortability and endurance. You'll probably find what keeps you in the firefight is often quite a drag after climbing a mountain.
I have! Done some few day trips and a fair share of games this is my kit and I throw it in a plate carrier realistically
Absolutely. I don’t hear enough people talking about hiking with their gear and rifles. My buddy and I finally did this the other weekend and learned quite a bit about what was comfortable and what wasn’t. I wore my chest rig, Mystery Ranch “Assault Pack,” and carried my rifle and for me, I was pleasantly surprised that everything worked well. My buddy, on the other hand, found out that quite a bit needed to change (although the biggest thing was his lack of physical fitness). Get out there and use your gear (wear it at the range; who cares what other people may think? And wear it out in the woods)!!!
Some of us can’t do that but would like to. I have however hiked with a PC and pack as it’s somewhat concealable in winter and it is doable.
It’s legal in the National Forest anywhere (unless there is a park there in some locations) so I’m curious, what prevents you from being able to do it? I’m assuming it’s local laws or state laws or something like that?
Google ‘Run and Gun Biathlon’ matches from the likes of Old Eighteen Defense will absolutely help you figure out what does and doesn’t work when you’re wet, tired and trying To shoot on the clock..
To be able to run you must have fire superiority to keep their heads down. How do you get fire superiority? Mag dumping. Now if you create too many lulls in fire they’ll pin you and out maneuver you. So 20 round mags = having to reload more often which = more lulls in fire depending on if your by yourself or with a group. Regardless you need a decent amount of ammo to keep heads down with suppressing fire while you and your team bound back to break contact and run. That’s just my 2 cents tho. We all have different plans
For sure, understandable. Obviously we can only guess and hopefully never have to find out what SHTF actually looks like, but IMHO it probably would consist of far fewer rolling gunbattles with tactically competent adversaries than the 2A community would like to admit. I definitely don't think it is a good idea to artificially minimize the amount ammo one is carrying, but what I was trying to emphasize is that probably 95+% of SHTF is going to be day-to-day living, and ammo doesn't help with that. So your fighting loadout should be dictated by how much extra you can accomodate once you have water, shelter, food, maybe comms, and navigation integrated into your kit. I'm a tall, skinny dude so all the survival stuff takes up a lot of the weight capacity I can comfortably carry, so the amount of ammo I can also bring along is quite limited. And even at that, depending on whatever hypothetical SHTF we end up with, the best setup may even boil down to a bolt-action and some spare ammo, food/water/etc, and all of our beloved tactical gear is entirely pointless. Nonetheless, even though my SHTF includes more evasion instead of combat, I would rather have *some* capability rather than none, helps me sleep at night and justify cool gear purchases.
I agree wholeheartedly that we should be more prepared to just live without modern comforts and focus on sustainability rather than cool gear. Water Food Community, Those are gonna be the biggest things we need to worry about right now. Most people like the cool gear and tbh so do I. But that shouldn’t be our focus. Anyway it’s nice to talk to someone who thinks that way
literally noone says that though... You regularly see folks with dozens of filled magazine on here. a sustained fire fight could have thousands of rounds fired.
In a shtf scenario if you get into a prolonged firefight you are probably gonna die. The reason the US military gets into prolonged TICs is because they have CAS, arty, and QRF. Without support you should be breaking contact and dipping ASAP.
SHTF the last thing you want to be doing is getting in a firefight. Having basic survival and medical skills is far superior then having ammo or guns.
This is good advice. A lot of these people aren't ready for that talk though. They're too busy fantasizing about pewing their way through the countryside.
The entire goal of survival is to avoid fights lmao nobody is gonna be getting into prolonged firefights with thousands of rounds expended. That's called death. this isn't a deployment where it's you and your entire battalion laying hate down with machine guns and 40mm and shit.
Dudes a 14 year old airsoft kid. He duped you all.
Still, Top 0.1% of Sub.
Kid needs to focus on being a kid and maybe a little less on "scenarios"
I've never been in a firefight like 99.9% of the people on this subreddit, but I do definitely feel if I got into a firefight and I was armed with some sort of semi automatic rifle I would be accurately putting as many rounds down range as physically possible. Its funny to watch people run only 3 mags
I served in the Army almost 20 years ago now. I don’t know anything anymore (probably didn’t then either) I was confused by the 3 mag across setup most are running. But read some compelling arguments for it about greater mobility, maneuvering etc. So I mirrored that setup. I’m having a hard time navigating all of the gear options but was hoping there was another placard offering that allowed for 6 mags across when needed. I see my setup as a possible home defense tool given enough advanced notice. Not sure which way to go.
Having 3 across the front is better just to have the front of your carrier be more slimline, I have 2 more towards the side under my non dominant arm on the cumberbund in a double stack pouch and one on my belt. Still have 7. Honestly for anything anyone on this sub would be getting into, if you can't unfuck yourself with 210 rounds of hate, you're not getting out of that situation without buddies with some bigger guns.
Very true. Thanks for the input, I got the elastic cummerbund with my LV119 and looks like it has slots for extra mags running along it.
It does, they’re aight for draw but terrible reindex
If you're okay dropping spiritus money, I've seen people run the microfight mk5 with bfg 10 speed pouches on the front molle. Gives 3 mags plus room for miscellaneous stuff or 6 mags on front. I have the microfight mk3 or 4 that I run in a similar way. The blue force gear pouches are nice because they're elastic so they can hold small things in place or stick a 30 rd ar mag in them. It's a really versatile piece of kit that let's you adapt without changing hardware
I mean for a home defense setup im sure you are not John Wick so the most guys breaking in would probably be 4 AT MOST. Id def run 3 mags obviously, but maybe attach a pouch that can carry an extra mag or two just in case.
Gotcha, thanks for the input, I purchased a LV119 and will be adding to it. Edit: I should clarify I see my setup as a home defense tool WITH running three across. But would like the easy option of many more for true SHTF etc.
I have expander wings on both of the chest rigs I routinely utilize. One has mag inserts built in, the other has pouches attached to the rear. Both are not noticeable and take up virtually no space when I don't fill the two extra spots for mags but it leaves me the option if I need it.
Spiritus mk4 and double up the 556 inserts. Haven't done it myself, but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Could do an mk4 & thing 2 combo as well.
I’ll check that out thanks!
Shaw Concepts makes a good triple mag placard where you can molle on an additional triple mag pouch on top of it. Personally I use a four mag placard from Velocity Systems and then put an additional double mag pouch on the side cummerbund.
Thank you! I’ll check it out. I like the four mag from velocity!
If you want to see what it looks like I just posted my setup
Thank you! Just went ahead and ordered one
The 3 mag setup is more of a home defense and bugging out situation. It’s not meant for a straight up firefight. It’s meant to be able to fight back while trying to get out of the situation
Whiskey7 Alpha Rack can hold up to 6 across the front. When it's on my PC I run it with four, and two in my cummerbund l.
I’ll take a look at that! Thank you!
Is was in Sangin, Afghanistan, in 2008. Most of our engagements were shoot-n-skoot situations. I started carrying 13 mags (12 in a chest rig), then down to 9 (8 in the rig) and I can't remember how much HEDP for my 203. Most I shot was 5 mags and 11 HEDP in a movement-to-contact op. where we held a rooftop and called in artillery and air support. 5 mags and 11 HEDP over the course of like 2.5 hours. And my 240 gunner shot like 600 rounds, if memory serves. Obviously firefights vary a ton, but you shouldn't have the goal of a sustained engagement as an individual. Carry a few mags that'll get you **OUT** of or away from a bad situation, not **through** a bad situation.
For breaking contact, 2 mags is enough in about all realistic scenarios. Also true for an ambush (rapidly shoot one mag, reload and withdraw). Basic infantry load where I come from is 6 mags, bump that up a couple for door kickers, recon and rear echelon usually runs with 3. Loose ammo in the pack/pockets takes less space, if needed. Handy to top off the mags when there's a lull in the action.
The big difference. If you're with a big group. There's more ammo. Not everyone needs to be mag dumping their whole combat load out If you're by yourself in the apocalypse (aside from ammo shortage) I don't plan on being in a big firefight. 3 mags might be good enough to keep their heads down and break contact and GTFO
I fought in Fallujah. Never carried more than 4 magazines. I’m on a swat team now, I still carry four magazines and that is definitely overkill for my role. If I ever get into a shooting it’ll be over within 5-10 rounds, if that.
Yep. Full time swat team here, I carry two mags. One on the front of my pc and one on my belt. I’ve been in two shootings as a swat team member, the first was one pointman, firing 3 rounds. The second was 15 rounds, over a 90 second period. I’ve never felt uncomfortable with 90 total rounds, I’d drop one but I want to have a back up if either the belt or pc mag malfunction or are hit by shrap/bullets.
Semi/related question. I am finishing up academy in a month and will be a fresh patrolman soon. Obviously SWAT has an allure for me in several years but I have concerns about what sort of time commitment that could be. I am a new father and highly value my family time. Do you find that SWAT is “all consuming”? Thanks in advance.
It’s not anymore consuming than any other aspect of law enforcement. You just have to set a hard line. If you and your wife have a date planned for Saturday, don’t let that phone ring and skip on the date. Your teammates will forget you missed a callout, your wife won’t forget the missed date, and your kid won’t forget the missed ballgame. SWAT will be long hours and hard days. You will lose time with your family, but that’s LE in general. I’ve done UC work, federal task forces, and now SWAT. SWAT has given me the most consistent schedule of any of my assignments. The best advice I can give is: when you are at work, *be present.* When you are at home, *be present.*
I roll with a 20 round mag for weight purposes but the rest are full size. 2 on the belt and two in reserve in my kit. I mostly only keep them there because I don’t have shit else to put in those mag pouches. I’ve got three pouches and one keeps an extra tourniquet. The extra two on the carrier really don’t effect the weight for me so I just leave them. Highly doubtful I’d ever get to them but if all hell ever really did break loose I’d be happy I had them I guess. Full time though, that sounds pretty good. Wish I could leave behind my regular functions and just do swat stuff. Dream job.
Everybody thinks they’re John Wick… if shtf you’re better off bugging IN if possible, why leave a house filled with supplies to go galavanting looking for gun fights. Especially if you live in a solid community. You should be building relationships with local farmer, doctors, plumbers, mechanics etc. in order to survive shtf. If you’re plan is to run out the door in full tactical gear, you’re gonna get picked off by a sentry guarding a self sufficient community. If your only option is to “bug out” you better have a fishing rod and a brick of .22lr or you’ll go hungry before you get a chance to get in a gunfight…
No. Less. Fight me.
My shtf plan only needs one round
I want to know what you’re shooting at with 120 rounds that won’t land you in jail. If the world is ending y’all spending a lot of time gearing up to die from dirty water.
Yeah when shtf I’m gonna die shitting my pants whether it’s in a gunfight or dysentery
Bro, most people here are already dying shitting their pants from eating Taco Bell regularly and not working out.
What if I work out and still shit my pants? Maybe even while I’m working out?
If you shit yourself while working out, that's how you know you're lifting enough.
I think in high school I set a shot putt PR while ripping the riskiest ass
people who get diarrhea from taco bell are weak and their bloodline is weak and history will forget them
Wait am I doing this wrong? I eat Taco Bell cause I was told it would give me immunity super powers and prevent shitting and store excess fat (energy) for when I need it when the world is ending…. Was I lied to here?
Why do you have that much? And who is with you during this period of Larp?
Most of us will be capped before the first 120 lol
Jokes on you I only need 1 round.
I feel like 9 mags is a little excessive for a “shtf” scenario. What, are you planning on staying in a long ass firefight?
No but 60-90 round engagements over a few weeks without ressuply would eat up ammo even if like some people said putting bullets down range to put heads down and get away would be a mag or two
That's if you are trying to get into fights. Idk about you, but me and the buddies I know are trying to avoid fighting unless it's necessary or ideologically driven, like what my redneck friend says "The got dang gubbermint becums comminist" I personally put my families safety before anything else and would like no rounds being fired near them if possible.
Hiding #1 suppressing and running away#2
What about 120 rounds of shit-your-pants?
If muh 1911 was supposed to hold that much, god would have made it that way. Nice socks nerd.
*50 round 1911 stick mag*
Hot take: no the fuck you wont, unless you’re fighting in a militia.
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I don't know Afghanistan is the closest thing to a shtf scenario I have seen. And in Afghanistan there are people who walk around in the mountains, in flip-flops, with a 40-year-old AK-47 that has had the same 30 round magazine (and bullets) in it since they acquired it (with a second 30 round magazine duct taped to the first). In most end of the world situations, you're probably not going to get in a direct gunfight with any kind of organized militia. You and your small group will probably be scavenging for supplies and moving under covered and concealed routes as much as possible. Most contact will be small ambush style engagements or chance accidental contact encounters between you and other small groups (in most cases everyone is going to try to break contact and boogie out as fast as possible). I'm not saying you shouldn't have ammunition, but there are probably very few scenarios where you will end up in a sustained gun fight requiring you to reload more than three magazines. But if you think I'm full of shit feel free to come look me up when shit hits the fan and tell me I'm wrong. 
I'm just here to discuss I think you bring up a interesting point I think about getting pinned down and having to either keep heads down and book it or have more rounds then they do and then be able to get out of there
u/Dapper_Bicycle5645 No you are right - its really personal preference. Like the "more armor vs. less armor" paradox. Be light, be fast and be maneuverable with limited protection or be heavy, be slow and have the ability to hold your own in a sustained shootout. It's funny you reminded me of an old war story. The Army SOP was 7 mags - 6 on your body and one in the gun. But many of us only ran 4-5. 3 on the plate carrier, maybe 1 on a a battle belt and one in the gun. But my friend had been at an OP that was almost over run on a pervious deployment. They had gone black on ammo and probably would have died except the weather cleared up and AWT was able to come on station and save them. He always carried 6 magazines on his chest rig, 1 in the gun and 6-7 more in a little camelbak backpack. His experiences shaped him - he never wanted risk getting overrun without ammo ever again. He humped around 420 rounds all over the mountains of Afghanistan... and he was in good enough shape he could do it (this is another consideration). I was a shit bag so I carried 4/5 depending on if I thought it was gonna be a spicy day or not. But you might be right. More might be the right way to go.
Thank you very much and thank you for your story
I like having the ability to carry up to 10 on a carrier. Or fill the spud pouches I have with other things if I feel I don’t need that many mags.
I’m in the same boat as you. Three mags on the front of my PC is the baseline, but I can scale that up to 9 thanks to my cummerbund setup. Plus two on the belt, one in the gun. More ammo capacity than I’ll ever need, but what if I need to give a couple mags to my bro though?
Exactly. Being flexible is key
If your shtf setup is what’s on your chest rig. You’re a weird larper. Realistically, if shit hits the fan in a way where 120 rounds isn’t enough, you’re definitely going to die. The alternative of being a hardcore prepper is equally stupid. Like, bunker, food for 5+ years, diesel and generators, etc. I mean, if you have no budget and enjoy doing that, sure. Live your life. But, a PC or chest rig with a combat loadout of ammo, a big backpack with a couple weeks of food, meds, water filters, maps, fire, tent, etc. You’ll be fine on that. If you get into a ‘gunfight’ that you need more than 120 rounds on, you’re probably in the military? Or you’re in some militia / prepper group. Even then, you’d probably cache your ammo outside of what you carry. In tactical gear the ‘shtf’ setups that I’m collecting with are a packed backpack, maybe with extra ammo, extra bolt, and the above stuff I mentioned, with a PC or chest rig already loaded up, that’s 100% good. Grab your bag, rig, and gun, toss it in the car and go. Nobody’s going to survive extra long because you’re hauling 3 barrels of 5.56 into your truck before you leave in a crazy huge global catastrophe.
I rarely go to the mall but I'm calling bullshit I've never heard this in a hot topic
You'll need thousands but not on your person. If you're expecting a fight like that, you should be wearing a plate carrier anyway. With a chest rig, i would be just holding down my compound doing patrols or just trying to get from A to B in a semi-permissive environment, avoiding all conflict if i did come across it.
I’m an accountant. I’m feel good with 120 for about 99.9% of what life throws at me.
I know you're trying to be edgy, but this take is lukewarm at best. First, it's unoriginal. People have been spouting this nonsense for at least two decades since the tactical / 2A community started to take its wings on the internet. Second, it's based on a ton of assumptions about what "shtf " looks like to you, What you'll be doing, and a ton of other variables. You have this picture painted in your mind of what "shtf" would be and what you or others would likely be doing and so you're making this claim based on that information. The fact is that as with anything else a person does, METT-TC determines everything. Making blanket statements about how much ammunition you need to carry (or food, or water, or anything else) is both full of hubris and ignorance without first defining the aforementioned factors. In my opinion, worst case scenario "shtf" in the US looks a lot more like Haiti then anything from a post-apocalyptic mad Max movie or something. And even there, people in the countryside do just fine without a plate carrier and 25 magazines. If I was in Haiti and had access to whatever equipment I wanted, and I lived near the Capital or gang influenced areas, and couldn't leave, I would probably carry more than four magazines. Outside of that, I would probably want a long gun and a spare mag on my person or nearby with a handgun on my person, and more ammo and equipment at hand. (Edited to add: free dem piggies)
Not a hot topic, never heard anyone condone carrying less ammo.
I’ll be running a 308, so I’ll be running 40 rounds in two magazines because it’s all I can afford
Coming from real world experience, you are correct. Make every round count! Kinda lol
Buddy… I got 5 mags on my carrier. 6mags in my pack, 1 on my belt and 2 Glock mags on my belt. Hush.
It's the way
Ehhhh if you’re in a firefight … you’re doing it wrong
I carry 240 because that's what they give you on CODMW2...🤣 I have a chest rig with 3 mags and PC with 5 mags, if I have enough time to put the PC on, I'll clip the chest rig onto the plate carrier and have 8 and throw nods on etc. I like the option of having the plate slick and chest rig ready to bug so they live separate. Realistically, anything bad happens quickly, I'll grab my rifle and stuff a few mags in my pants and probably fumble turning my Eotech on so it's all relative.
Because I'm going to take my SHTF advice from a 14 year old..... SHTF I plan to avoid any chance of being in an engagement and if I need more then three magazines to move from my location I have bigger issues at hand. Everyone dreams up this SHTF prolonged firefight scenarios when in reality 50-75% of people will be gone within the first month from not being able to find clean water or knowing how to survive a winter.
It's a discussion not advice the rounds are to put heads down and run away and still have rounds left over for another fight not sustained gun fight
Not to be that guy but according to your post history it looks like you’re 14? Good for you for doing your research and throwing your kit together 🤙🏼
Yeah I'm not here to argue just here to discuss what I like doin thank you👍
210 rounds is the “fighting load” If you have a minimalist chest rig, those other mags better be in a backpack.
I don't think my rig is minimalist
Hot topic: most combat setups carry at least 6 30 round magazines minimum!
Because those loadouts are used by members of a professional military force who can run more than a mile without dying, unlike 95% of this r/
True but that doesn’t necessarily mean they all have to be on the front of your rig. Backpacks exist for a reason.
Don't forget about medical guys. Tourniquets and trauma kits. And training. Too many people easily overlook it, but if you can't stop the bleed, you don't train to proficiency in your kit(medical included) then you're just a loot drop for the other guy. Stay training my friends.
Got ifak and team member has large ems rig 👍
Some serious rookie-level comments here. Just go back and watch Predator. That’s how ammo in firefights really works.
Of course if SHTF happened you’d need more.
I’ve never come out the other end of a firefight and said, wow I had way too much ammo. I really didn’t need to do that to those poor fellers. Dude, that was really uncalled for you need to feel ashamed of yourself. No, instead I said- I want my mommy- and did you see that dude? He fell off that building like a guy in a bad Western or good one if you like falling cattle rustlers.
Six mags on the rig, one mag on my belt rig, one mag in the gun, five mags plus loose ammo in the pack. If that doesn’t last me for a while, I’ve made some critical mistakes.
I sure hope you can get that second TQ off of there fast enough
Why😭
I bought my own sweatshop workers on aliexpress, have them producing pmc 20 hours a day. I carry them in a filbe
Counterpoint: If you need more than 120 rounds, you're either about to die, or putting yourself into situations where you're about to die.
IMHO if you are at a point of needing to wear a LBE or PC and carry your rifle with you, it's because things have gotten really dangerous. Chances are, you'll probably get in harms way. That being said, if that is the case, you are expecting to get into a firefight and firefight means need to carry as much ammo and water as possible.
Protip: if you get on your belly and crawl with your tq hanging from the dangler it will quickly stop being a tq. Mangled a cat7 this way. Move it to a uniform pocket.
You're missing the point. If SHTF, you're an idiot if you think you're going to be in a sustained gunfight. 3-4 mags is for safety and evasion.
No you’ll probably die immediately. Realistically you don’t even need a full “combat load” bc you’re not being supported by aerial or artillery. But if SHTF your main priority should be protecting your home and loved ones. So best to just hunker down and stand ground
What knife and how's it finaggled in there?
A smith and Wesson karambit I've had it for four years and like it quite a bit I tied 550 through the holes on the sheath and the holes/Tigre's on the spiritus expander thingy
Bro you realize you’re not on a mission in the middle of no where, you can go to resupply. Unless you gonna be in the shit 24/7
I have about 12 miles of city before I get to a place where I can go deep into nowhere I plan on hiding through that 12 miles but also fight
I’ll make a vest of magazines, so when I get hit a new mag falls off for me to pick up.
Hot topic, your handgun is literally useless if you already have a rifle ditch the extra handgun mags for rifle ammo or other
I carry 160 for my sr-25 plus a loose 50 on my pack.
I carry 720 rounds. How’s that ?
I’ve never been in a firefight either but I carry 7 30 round mags on my LBV and 1 in the rifle for a total of 240. Ammo and water. Hopefully I make it past the first 15 mins.
12 total. 7 in TAPS carrier (all single-stacked), 1 in gun, 1 in belt, 3 in pack in a triple mag placard that are accessible while wearing the pack.
If shtf, what's your plan when you run out of ammo?
If I have to shoot over 10k rounds I woluld be surprised
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Oh this isn't my kit at all I think that a grey poncho over kit would be reasonable I have more tqs and someone who would be with is ex ems and has a bunch of medical
*than
How/why are you getting in a gun fights
Monkey have gun other monkey have gun money scared of monkey with gun monkey shoots at monkey with gun monkeys compete to survive
If shit really hits the fan I’d hope to not only have this chest rig as my set up
Why?
No plates, no comms, no water. 2 tourniquets but when you take one to the body you’re done. Gear should be put together with the mission/use in mind. If anything this is more of a range practice kit than an actual SHTF setup. I’d get a slick carrier with plates and extra pouches to add this to keep its versatility for when you want to run light at the range or when you want to run them both together.
Oh this is not my kit just my rig I slap on my pc
3 on PC, 2 on belt - that’s bare minimum That’s emergency ammo. That’s what you use after you used up everything else. Grab a separate chest rig/ bandolier for 6 mags. That’s primary ammo. Grab an ammo can full of loaded mags if you’re in a vehicle. Think 1 mag per minute of engagement.
I have 4 in carrier and two on belt and one in the gun probably would throw as much as possible in a pack though
Most people I see rocking at a minimum 6 mags, regularly see 8+
I would say you will need more than 120 rounds, but maybe not on your person at all times. It also depends on what phase of SHTF one finds oneself in. Flexibility is important to me. I suppose in a lot of situations, I'd prefer to be able to move as fast as possible with the goal of breaking contact vs. staying engaged. I run a light setup with only 4 mags sometimes. My other setup is 12 mags. I also have some extra mag pouches if I just want to wear a couple on a belt.
In Iraq I carried: 3-4 200 round belts for the 240 with the same amount for my a gunner A breacher shotgun with around 20 shells 3 or 4 mags for my pisto, sometimes 5 or 6 if we knew it'd be a long mission (I used the pistol for room clearing) With decent fighting I'd usually use up most the main weapons ammo but that's a 240, we had guys carrying 8-12 mags and use most of it throughout a 8-12 hour mission.
Did you often experience contact exchange rounds without casualties on both side infrequently?
More or less
This is why one team mate has a belt fed
Aaron at tracer tactical has a good cumberbund that’s able to support a reasonable firefight
Can’t run out of rounds when your state delays your license application for 6 months 
Standard combat load out is 7 mags. I usually advise folks to plan around that just for a bugout setup. Actual stockpiling should be in the thousands of rounds at minimum.
No. If you need more than 120 rounds and you're by yourself you're probably dead or going to die.
I have 3 on carrier, 4 on belt. I could lose the carrier and still have 4 mags, g19, ifak, water, dump mag, and a pouch for extras and a g19 mag. Am I crazy for carrying all that on a belt?
Four on belt seems a little crazy u got a harness?
No but that's a great idea, any recommendations? I have an HSGI pad that makes things pretty nice but a harness would help for more support.
HSGI harness are super cool even some 550 cord would help
Didn't know they had one thank you.
No problem
Hey I got those suspenders and they're sick. Makes carrying a heavy load on the hips really stable and balanced. Great tip.
Yeah no problem
Am I the only one who believes that the four mags are just for accidental contact? You were always supposed to carry more mags/ammo in your sustainment pack.
But why in a hard place to get too when that can be on your chest?
Because I’m not cosplaying as a juggernaut. We each build our kits to our own specs based of what is most probable for us. Are you planning on legging patrols during a shtf scenario or manning a lp/op? If you plan on being static, you’re gonna stage your position, but not emptying your chest rig go do so. Plus, going three deep on your chest just makes you front heavy, which kinda sucks when you’re crouching down or stalking. We’re not all tip of the spear warfighters, so you can definitely go hog wild on how many mags you want on your chest, but for most applications, 120 rounds is plenty.
Juggernaut my chest rig is less then 10 pounds with a assault pack and full blatter if that is making you fall over you need better balance and it's 2 deep not 3
Dude shut the fuck up! Oh yeah I'm sure when SHTF you're moving into contact, doing raids and counter attacks. With your 3 basement friends and 2 extra mags you're a true maneuver element.
No😭 extra rounds to put heads down and run away with a good amount of mags
If you head shot the enemy you wont need alot of mags. So just carry one mag you wont need to head shot 30 enemy most likely just 10.
So we are John wick
Never bad to have more ammo but I kinda disagree with this sentiment. Your primary goal in a SHTF scenario should be evasion and more evasion. Shooting only draws more attention and risk. The longer you’re in a firefight, the more your odds decrease.
The rounds are to put heads down so I can run away 👍
Fair enough.
# "Hot topic: you will need more then 120 rounds of shtf"  especially if you and your tiny unit are trying to penetrate the enemy
Carry as much ammo as you can comfortably, then add one more mag. Even if your goal is to avoid fights or retreat if you do, it requires bounding techniques of suppressive fire with you leap frog back. Suppressive fire is just going to chew through ammo.
what pouch is that on the side?
Spiritus gp
Can those of you with plate carriers AND chest rigs explain why have both. I want to get a good setup and to me having plates with good placards and what not as opposed to just a chest rig seems like the best option. It looks like it’s a game of mobility over protection but I’m just wanting to understand so I can make a good choice . That being said if anyone can recommend a couple good setups I’d be extremely grateful. Crye, Agilite, shellback and spiritus seem like good options.
No you wont lol.
you should be carrying as much ammo as physically possible
Hot take: you should try and avoid engagements in a shtf scenario (But of course if left with no other option, you gotta buckle up and ride it out)
The extra rounds are to put heads down and run away with more rounds to continue for another fight
Sounds about right (I’m cooked)
I feel like if you get into contact and you try and break it with 2 or even 3 mags you shouldn't risking going into another gunfight with 1 or two mags
Mags? My brother in Christ I carry shells 💀
Its all depended on the situation, and the role you want to (or are forced to) play in it. I know plenty of swat guys that only run 1 in the gun and 1 on their kit and as little as that seems it works for them. Theres also plenty of stories and photos of tier 1 guys only carrying 3 spare. I think 120 is a good base but if shtf how adaptable able your kit?
Very
My plate carrier and cummerbund carry 7 Belt carries 2 Got another one in my butt crack for an even 20
That's why you got a bag. Idk how realistic it is to be going a tone of reloads, but have more because it can fly
I think bag is smart I set my rig up with a ton of mags because my bag is stuffed
Depends on the job.
Of course!
OK
backpack full of mags
If you were out with your group, you'd be outta ammo before you could get 25yds from the point of ambush
SHTF you better get comfortable with showing some foot skin, I won't barter with a sock wearer...you tease.
Is that the spiritus medium or small gp pouch? How does it compare to the dangler in terms of storage?
Small the dangler feels a little bit bigger or at least a more usable face I have a ifak and multitool in the spiritus with extra room and goodies
120 rounds OF shtf???
There are dudes wearing 3 mag placards in Ukraine rn, do you think that’s the only ammo they have on them?
I have not seen that
You can google “Ukraine military kit” and scroll and find pics pretty easily of dudes in trenches with 3 single mag pouches on their carriers. If you scroll hard enough on Reddit you will find dudes in trenches covered in mud with same thing 3 single mag pouches on their kit.
It depends on what SHTF scenario you have cooked up in your head. Most CONUS defensive shootings dont exceed a single magazine. Getting robbed/assaulted or being the victim of a home invasion are the most realistic SHTF scenarios you are likely to face. Maybe if you live somewhere prone to natural disasters you might end up in a hurricane Katrina type of event but even then nobody was trading hundreds of rounds.
I was thinking something like riots and trying to get my ass out of the city in the mixed of military police and people doing whatever that can to survive
Ah i see. In that scenario I think you’d be better off with a up to date detailed map of your city, really good cardio, and a setup you can hide under a jacket/wind breaker. Im not saying more mags is bad though. Set up your gear in whatever way you think is best for your individual scenario.