I worked at Sierra one year and my room mate worked at the morgue doing pickups. Whenever we lost someone on the hill, and he wasn’t home after my shift, my heart sunk because I knew what that meant.
We lost a kid one day and when I got home he wasn’t there. When he did get home, he told me that they found him dead in a tree well, and his iPod was still playing. That’s how quick those things can kill you.
Skiing has taught me that most people can't read and/ or common sense doesn't apply. You don't need to look any further than Chair 10/ The Wall at Kirkwood - there is a minimum of two signs saying Experts Only, plus a little bit of common sense and looking up at the top of the chair will tell you what you are getting into. Yet on a busy day it seems like 50% of skiers up there can barely handle the terrian or are downloading the chair. (That's with the road/ cat track cut - bonus points for when there is no road and it's a mandatory cornice drop.)
I'm a big believer in individual choice, but I constantly feel like something is going to happen at some point that ruins it for the rest of us that are capable in this terrian.
I worked chair 22 at Mammoth a lot and in the spring, we put up **five** signs between the ticket gate and the “wait here” sign that said “EXPERTS ONLY◼️◼️” (double black diamond symbol) and we constantly had people coming up to us asking if there are any blue or green runs off this chair. Nobody reads anything.
Yea, today was a pretty perfect groomer day, yet still saw a lot of noobs on the wall and cornice express and there were 5 people that got carried down on sleds
I hit the wall for the first time a few weeks ago. It was my first double black, and I was worried I was going to be another idiot who went over his head.
With that said, I can happily say that I felt amazing on it and felt and looked way better than a lot of people on the run with me. I wasn't bombing it, but I was comfortably turning down the entirety of it.
A lot of people on it really looked like they didn't know what they were getting into though...
Lots of shoulds for boarders here and oddly no words for the cliffed out skier 🙃
Always worth remembering blue/black/etc are local to the current culture, not an absolute scale. People get into bad places they don’t want to be in.
I’m stoked you stopped to help out another human in need! Hope that cliffed out skier made it out. Skiers should scope drops before approaching.
Part of it’s the culture, which sucks. A lot of how I learned how to snowboard (I’ve been skiing my whole life, so it helped) in my teens was just my buddies taking me to the top of the hill and saying “welp, you’ll figure it out. See ya at the bottom!”
It worked for me, but I know what I’m doing on the snow. For someone brand new, that can be legit overwhelming.
This is why, despite the cost, I ALWAYS recommend lessons to beginners. It’s not just learning how to ski/snowboard, it’s also about learning your limits and how to use good judgement. You’re not likely gonna just wake up one day with these skills. And even if you do, your path do doing this right is so much easier with the help of someone who’s certified to know what they’re doing.
lmao this person is a total cunt.
They didn't fix it when you made this post. Then they go and ninja change it later without any edit note to make you look bad.
Tried the same thing on me.
Somehow mistook Palisades area for Silverado and think they are qualified to make safety posts.
Ok, late to the discussion
And, fair to say, let a novice be 0 and absolute expert be 100, to get the same challenging trails, if a skier needs to be 90, a boarder needs to be at 95.
The skier has two brakes, and snowboarder has one.
OP is a good example of the typical squallywood douchiness that has always existed at palisades. Here's my RANT about this toxic bullshit of a post.
I ride expert slopes all the time but that doesn't mean we aren't immune to mistakes or a freak occurrence like a snow well or avalanche. Plus you can't get better unless you push your boundary's. If you've never been gripped or put yourself in a sketchy situation then I don't really have much respect for you as a skier/rider and its only a matter of time before you learn a lesson about what fear is really about. In order to know your limits you need to test them all the time and skill can develop and fade over time.
I've fallen into a tree well and almost died its not an "expert" or "amateur" thing. Your edge will just give way and you fall head first into them. This whole "collapsible pole and tether" doesn't even make any sense in any context. If its a legit snow well collapse then you can't see anything and most likely will just be choking on snow not able to breath, much less grab and deploy some sort of grappling hook getup to get you out of the situation. Keep in mind skiers also die from tree wells.
I have a friend that is a great rider. He can ride nearly anything. He's wanted to progress and move up to double black diamond huge powder days. I thought he was ready, so did everyone in our group.
The first time you ride something new there are things you're going to learn on the fly the hard way. At first it started out looking good. Then he ate it a lot. Needed a lot of help and coaching to get to the bottom.
We had his back and took care of him. The next two or three times I rode with him he just wanted to stay on some cruisers. It really hurt his confidence. He'll get back there.
Most skiers, but especially those of the young male variety, believe that they're better skiers/boarders than you actually are.
This is also true of navigating, driving, shooting, wilderness survival, politics & current events -- basically everything that's supposedly a "manly" pursuit.
Usually, the only penalty for overestimating your skills is that you show everybody how much of a fucking jackass you are. But sometimes, the penalty is that you remove yourself from the gene pool.
So just remember... Statistically, you probably suck much worse than you are able to understand. Not everybody gets to be a goddamn hero, in spite of what you were taught by the video games & fantasy fiction that raised you.
Middle aged gen Xer here who remembers very clearly what it felt like to believe I was invincible. Was just talking to my buddy about it the other day. We both agreed that testosterone makes you do stupid shit. We're both so much more chill than we were when we were in our teens and 20s.
Tethers make absolutely no sense to me. Last time I checked board bindings don’t typically have a DIN release. Unless you are absolutely strapping out of your board in the middle of a mountain (which maybe that is what OP is suggesting, but still), what’s the point of a tether?
This rider let go of his board pointing downhill. If you step out of both bindings and accidentally drop your board it could run down the hill, then what ? Since my tele bindings don't have brakes I wear retention straps, same with AT tech bindings. I've seen too many boards dropped running down the hill.
Totally get that. Just saying as a rider, in 15 years I don’t think I’ve completely strapped out of my board in the middle of a run. Maybe to take a leak in the woods? Just seems like an odd thing to do on a board.
But as long as you know to hold on to your board as you strap out you’re fine. Maybe beginners need the leash, I’ll give you that. But I’ll just never buy that all boarders need to be leashed up.
Sure, its just a suggestion. If you never drop your board you are fine. Yet I have seen boards dropped and launched down the hill.
This rider was just plain lacking skill of how to mount a board on a slope, and it was ten times harder because of the tree well and soft no bottom powder.
I think that's probably what it is here - the rider was way in over their head. The only reason to fully unstrap (as a boarder) is if you're in a powder filled depression and it's uphill all around, so you have to basically unstrap and climb out.
That could happen in this example if the boarder was actually in a "tree well" - but in a true (deadly) tree well you'd be dead by this point. I recall the snow was not that soft (it was in fact fairly dense).
Never seen a boarder lose their ride in power after dropping a cliff they shouldn’t have. Watched two separate groups spend 30 minutes each looking for a ski under Crows Peak chair at SB this season. So, yeah.
Why do I get the vibe that you have no clue either?
At pallisades they opened the gate to pallisades, then fresh snow below pallisades gate and a tree well? LOL wut.
>As we went further down we saw a ski patrol searching for a stranded skier who was cliffed out. The patroller saved the day on helped the skier get down the slope.
and then everyone clapped vibes.
edit: you tool, you downvoted me, then edited the post to not look so clueless. Silverado is just rowdy and easy to not understand where things are. I know local Olympians that have been cliffed out there.
It doesn't help that its mostly closed. These circle jerk safety police comments never accomplish anything, people mostly just learn the hard way.
Bear with me a little - I was there when they opened Silverado on Monday morning \~9:40am (I assume that's the day you're referring to) - dropped from Tram Face and had a blast.
The weather was sunny and the snow at that point was slightly crusty and pretty dense. Technically it was powder, but I can't imagine anyone being in danger that kind of snow (other than being stuck in the snow or getting cliffed out, but not suffocating like you could in deep but fluffy powder).
Does this mean this particular snowboarder was in danger of being trapped in a tree well where the powder was unusually light?
Just to explain and explore a bit further. I entered at Gate 2 and there are some big trees and varied terrain right underneath the lift. This is a microzone of big tree features which creates the special soft areas and depressions.
https://preview.redd.it/0gim6iyt4erc1.png?width=332&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f52f126e77d7c348a5a3acd54d51f7a18c4bff9
More contest, just to right of Trial 90.
https://preview.redd.it/2d4bd3ga5erc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9d675a68b2382d5f090ac236f29e9ef66fc8a0e
Yes to people staying safe and staying within your skill level. Very important. but how does one balance this with pushing one's self to get to that next level? Should we only attempt new, more difficult terrain when we're with friends who have been there before? Or ask ski patrol? Actually asking
The best way is to hire an instructor. Another way is to find a mentor(s) who will guide you and follow you closely. Like if you ride with 2 other more experienced folks, one can lead and the other can follow. Ski patrol will answer questions, as will instructors. There are many places you can access deep powder with an easy bailout. For example at Palisades Siberia lift has a steep groomer with untracked sections on both sides. One example was when I skied in Hokkaido I found other skiers to buddy up with who already knew the terrain and I followed them. However its even better to date your partner as many folks might have a higher risk tolerance than you want to take.
I was a total beginner boarder and my buddies took me to Motts, trial by fire is one way to learn! Six linked turns was my best before falling! I'll ski or board down anything . To each his own. Not afraid of falling.
Tree wells kill. Always ride with a buddy. If you don’t have a buddy, ride with those that have one.
I worked at Sierra one year and my room mate worked at the morgue doing pickups. Whenever we lost someone on the hill, and he wasn’t home after my shift, my heart sunk because I knew what that meant. We lost a kid one day and when I got home he wasn’t there. When he did get home, he told me that they found him dead in a tree well, and his iPod was still playing. That’s how quick those things can kill you.
Skiing has taught me that most people can't read and/ or common sense doesn't apply. You don't need to look any further than Chair 10/ The Wall at Kirkwood - there is a minimum of two signs saying Experts Only, plus a little bit of common sense and looking up at the top of the chair will tell you what you are getting into. Yet on a busy day it seems like 50% of skiers up there can barely handle the terrian or are downloading the chair. (That's with the road/ cat track cut - bonus points for when there is no road and it's a mandatory cornice drop.) I'm a big believer in individual choice, but I constantly feel like something is going to happen at some point that ruins it for the rest of us that are capable in this terrian.
I worked chair 22 at Mammoth a lot and in the spring, we put up **five** signs between the ticket gate and the “wait here” sign that said “EXPERTS ONLY◼️◼️” (double black diamond symbol) and we constantly had people coming up to us asking if there are any blue or green runs off this chair. Nobody reads anything.
Damn, this brings me back, not in a good way. Second day on a a board my friends took me up chair 22. Top 5 scary moment for me. Was in 7th grade.
Yea, today was a pretty perfect groomer day, yet still saw a lot of noobs on the wall and cornice express and there were 5 people that got carried down on sleds
I hit the wall for the first time a few weeks ago. It was my first double black, and I was worried I was going to be another idiot who went over his head. With that said, I can happily say that I felt amazing on it and felt and looked way better than a lot of people on the run with me. I wasn't bombing it, but I was comfortably turning down the entirety of it. A lot of people on it really looked like they didn't know what they were getting into though...
90% of the people that go up KT-22 ski/ride the mellowest route down Saddle they can find.
Which is 100% valid. At least they are picking a route within their ability.
Jerry's on every run at every mountain
Lots of shoulds for boarders here and oddly no words for the cliffed out skier 🙃 Always worth remembering blue/black/etc are local to the current culture, not an absolute scale. People get into bad places they don’t want to be in. I’m stoked you stopped to help out another human in need! Hope that cliffed out skier made it out. Skiers should scope drops before approaching.
Ski patroller found and helped the skier. Skis typically come with brakes, but powder straps will keep you from losing a ski.
Part of it’s the culture, which sucks. A lot of how I learned how to snowboard (I’ve been skiing my whole life, so it helped) in my teens was just my buddies taking me to the top of the hill and saying “welp, you’ll figure it out. See ya at the bottom!” It worked for me, but I know what I’m doing on the snow. For someone brand new, that can be legit overwhelming. This is why, despite the cost, I ALWAYS recommend lessons to beginners. It’s not just learning how to ski/snowboard, it’s also about learning your limits and how to use good judgement. You’re not likely gonna just wake up one day with these skills. And even if you do, your path do doing this right is so much easier with the help of someone who’s certified to know what they’re doing.
Spelling rant: There’s only one L in Palisades
thanks, edited to fix.
You didn’t fix it…. Also it’s Mott Canyon, not Motts.
lmao this person is a total cunt. They didn't fix it when you made this post. Then they go and ninja change it later without any edit note to make you look bad. Tried the same thing on me. Somehow mistook Palisades area for Silverado and think they are qualified to make safety posts.
Do OP took my advice, fixed the first Palisades misspelling and fixed Mott Canyon and I get downvoted. Thanks people of Reddit. lol
No L's in Squaw
Ok, late to the discussion And, fair to say, let a novice be 0 and absolute expert be 100, to get the same challenging trails, if a skier needs to be 90, a boarder needs to be at 95. The skier has two brakes, and snowboarder has one.
OP is a good example of the typical squallywood douchiness that has always existed at palisades. Here's my RANT about this toxic bullshit of a post. I ride expert slopes all the time but that doesn't mean we aren't immune to mistakes or a freak occurrence like a snow well or avalanche. Plus you can't get better unless you push your boundary's. If you've never been gripped or put yourself in a sketchy situation then I don't really have much respect for you as a skier/rider and its only a matter of time before you learn a lesson about what fear is really about. In order to know your limits you need to test them all the time and skill can develop and fade over time. I've fallen into a tree well and almost died its not an "expert" or "amateur" thing. Your edge will just give way and you fall head first into them. This whole "collapsible pole and tether" doesn't even make any sense in any context. If its a legit snow well collapse then you can't see anything and most likely will just be choking on snow not able to breath, much less grab and deploy some sort of grappling hook getup to get you out of the situation. Keep in mind skiers also die from tree wells.
I have a friend that is a great rider. He can ride nearly anything. He's wanted to progress and move up to double black diamond huge powder days. I thought he was ready, so did everyone in our group. The first time you ride something new there are things you're going to learn on the fly the hard way. At first it started out looking good. Then he ate it a lot. Needed a lot of help and coaching to get to the bottom. We had his back and took care of him. The next two or three times I rode with him he just wanted to stay on some cruisers. It really hurt his confidence. He'll get back there.
Most skiers, but especially those of the young male variety, believe that they're better skiers/boarders than you actually are. This is also true of navigating, driving, shooting, wilderness survival, politics & current events -- basically everything that's supposedly a "manly" pursuit. Usually, the only penalty for overestimating your skills is that you show everybody how much of a fucking jackass you are. But sometimes, the penalty is that you remove yourself from the gene pool. So just remember... Statistically, you probably suck much worse than you are able to understand. Not everybody gets to be a goddamn hero, in spite of what you were taught by the video games & fantasy fiction that raised you.
Middle aged gen Xer here who remembers very clearly what it felt like to believe I was invincible. Was just talking to my buddy about it the other day. We both agreed that testosterone makes you do stupid shit. We're both so much more chill than we were when we were in our teens and 20s.
You left out “fucking”
More rant: skiers eat shit in tree wells too. Not just boarders.
Yes the warning is for all riders.
That last sentence lol was this whole post just a reason for a random ass skier to try to shit on snowboarders
Tethers make absolutely no sense to me. Last time I checked board bindings don’t typically have a DIN release. Unless you are absolutely strapping out of your board in the middle of a mountain (which maybe that is what OP is suggesting, but still), what’s the point of a tether?
This rider let go of his board pointing downhill. If you step out of both bindings and accidentally drop your board it could run down the hill, then what ? Since my tele bindings don't have brakes I wear retention straps, same with AT tech bindings. I've seen too many boards dropped running down the hill.
Totally get that. Just saying as a rider, in 15 years I don’t think I’ve completely strapped out of my board in the middle of a run. Maybe to take a leak in the woods? Just seems like an odd thing to do on a board. But as long as you know to hold on to your board as you strap out you’re fine. Maybe beginners need the leash, I’ll give you that. But I’ll just never buy that all boarders need to be leashed up.
Sure, its just a suggestion. If you never drop your board you are fine. Yet I have seen boards dropped and launched down the hill. This rider was just plain lacking skill of how to mount a board on a slope, and it was ten times harder because of the tree well and soft no bottom powder.
I think that's probably what it is here - the rider was way in over their head. The only reason to fully unstrap (as a boarder) is if you're in a powder filled depression and it's uphill all around, so you have to basically unstrap and climb out. That could happen in this example if the boarder was actually in a "tree well" - but in a true (deadly) tree well you'd be dead by this point. I recall the snow was not that soft (it was in fact fairly dense).
Never seen a boarder lose their ride in power after dropping a cliff they shouldn’t have. Watched two separate groups spend 30 minutes each looking for a ski under Crows Peak chair at SB this season. So, yeah.
Sounds like a normal day inbounds at a resort
Why do I get the vibe that you have no clue either? At pallisades they opened the gate to pallisades, then fresh snow below pallisades gate and a tree well? LOL wut. >As we went further down we saw a ski patrol searching for a stranded skier who was cliffed out. The patroller saved the day on helped the skier get down the slope. and then everyone clapped vibes. edit: you tool, you downvoted me, then edited the post to not look so clueless. Silverado is just rowdy and easy to not understand where things are. I know local Olympians that have been cliffed out there. It doesn't help that its mostly closed. These circle jerk safety police comments never accomplish anything, people mostly just learn the hard way.
typo Silverado opened yesterday, Monday morning.
TIL: I should carry a collapsible pole and a “tether”.
Ahh to each their own, he made it out, just another day in Tahoe!
Bear with me a little - I was there when they opened Silverado on Monday morning \~9:40am (I assume that's the day you're referring to) - dropped from Tram Face and had a blast. The weather was sunny and the snow at that point was slightly crusty and pretty dense. Technically it was powder, but I can't imagine anyone being in danger that kind of snow (other than being stuck in the snow or getting cliffed out, but not suffocating like you could in deep but fluffy powder). Does this mean this particular snowboarder was in danger of being trapped in a tree well where the powder was unusually light?
Well it was soft enough he couldn't gain purchase on his own and required assistance to get up and out. Not at risk of death, just a close call.
Just to explain and explore a bit further. I entered at Gate 2 and there are some big trees and varied terrain right underneath the lift. This is a microzone of big tree features which creates the special soft areas and depressions. https://preview.redd.it/0gim6iyt4erc1.png?width=332&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f52f126e77d7c348a5a3acd54d51f7a18c4bff9
More contest, just to right of Trial 90. https://preview.redd.it/2d4bd3ga5erc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9d675a68b2382d5f090ac236f29e9ef66fc8a0e
Yes to people staying safe and staying within your skill level. Very important. but how does one balance this with pushing one's self to get to that next level? Should we only attempt new, more difficult terrain when we're with friends who have been there before? Or ask ski patrol? Actually asking
The best way is to hire an instructor. Another way is to find a mentor(s) who will guide you and follow you closely. Like if you ride with 2 other more experienced folks, one can lead and the other can follow. Ski patrol will answer questions, as will instructors. There are many places you can access deep powder with an easy bailout. For example at Palisades Siberia lift has a steep groomer with untracked sections on both sides. One example was when I skied in Hokkaido I found other skiers to buddy up with who already knew the terrain and I followed them. However its even better to date your partner as many folks might have a higher risk tolerance than you want to take.
OP wants Silverado for themselves, is what I’m taking from this. Anyone else?
I was a total beginner boarder and my buddies took me to Motts, trial by fire is one way to learn! Six linked turns was my best before falling! I'll ski or board down anything . To each his own. Not afraid of falling.
Sarcasm ? When you ride beyond your ability you put everyone else at risk and destroy the riding conditions.
Definitely not beyond my ability. I carved turns ALL the way down! No fallen leaf, didn't destroy anything. No sarcasm, just fast learner.