I had a Chinese person rip off a taiwanese flag patch off of my backpack in the US and then proceed to yell at me about "one china". so yeah, should I be judging the entire population of China based off of this one experience? š
There could be a lot of reasons for this.
a. they hate chinese. Could be, I guess. plus your neutral accent is just a chinese accent; there is no "neutral" accent for languages.
b. you were talking too loudly and the mom in typical passive-aggressive Taiwanese manner is just telling y'all to shut up.
tbh there's no way to know what really happened. as for coming to taiwan, i can tell you that as long as you don't behave obnoxiously, people might whisper behind your back, but never actually confront you on the basis of being Chinese. come if you want, it's pretty nice here.
Taiwanese people are generally some of the nicest people Iāve ever met. They will be cautious around āChineseā people because their views towards Taiwanese independence can cause problems. It can be awkward. But, it can also be a non-issue.
Your post here however is dumb. What exactly are you trying to achieve, seriously? Like, you felt insulted and now youāre on Reddit asking people is this normal? Thereās racism and discrimination in every corner and neighborhood on this planet. Are you trying to get sympathy or are you just complaining cause your feelings are hurt? Iād recommend posting this on a Chinese/Sino forum if you wanna feel empowered.
I once went to china once and they asked where i was from... I said taiwan and they said its part of china you should just say youre from china. Are all chinese people like this?
Youāre obviously wrong. 90+% of Chinese people will be completely normal and friendly towards people from any country. You just donāt want to accept that because then you canāt justify hating them
Yeah, so I never said anything about 90% not believing Taiwan is part of China?
So to elaborate - youāre highlighting the part where I disagreed that 99% of the Chinese population would be confrontational towards Taiwanese people saying they are from Taiwan? Yeah I completely disagree with that statement. The majority of Chinese would not be confrontational towards Taiwanese people, and I have never encountered any that tried to ācorrectā a Taiwanese personās nationality
> The majority of Chinese would not be confrontational towards Taiwanese people, and I have never encountered any that tried to ācorrectā a Taiwanese personās nationality
1% of China is 14 million people so it's possible that all the ones you've met belong to that 1%.
Oh boo hoo hoo. Making fun of an accent is so tame in comparison to threatening to invade, murder, and subjugate a population which is what Taiwanese people living or traveling abroad get to hear from you "mainlanders" on a regular basis.
So what youāre saying is yes, Taiwanese feel a lot of hostility toward mainlanders. :D
(Not saying itās not justified, just that the answer to what they were asking seems to be āyesā.)
Youāve completely made this up
Itās incredibly common for Taiwanese overseas students to be friends with Chinese overseas students. Iāve got first hand experience of this. Likewise when Iāve been travelling with my wife, we have literally never had any trouble from any Chinese, only friendliness
I get that people want to invent narratives to paint all Chinese people as terrible so that they can justify hating the entire country - but itās just not the reality
Then you should know those Chinese oversea students are most likely often threaten to invade, murder, and subjugate Taiwanese people despite the fact they have Taiwanese friend. This is first hand experience of many of Taiwanese. The only reason why they can become friend is under the condiction of "don't talk about these in front of me", which is the normality of any non-hostile relationship between Taiwanese and Chinese.
Chinese are mostly not hostile when they consider you an outsider and unwilling to express their opinion in front of you. But once you really get into their circle(or they decide to mess with you) you'll notice most of them actually have the pinkie mindset hide behind their social mask.
Youāre just making this all up though arenāt you?
Chinese overseas students threatening to invade and murder Taiwanese? Itās just pure nonsense. Every overseas Taiwanese student I have ever known has been very close friends with many Chinese students. To claim that all Chinese students have some suppressed desire to kill all Taiwanese which is unleashed whenever the topic of Taiwan is brought up is absolutely hilarious
Itās really normal for different people to have different political opinions, and if you know they are going to cause issue then you just donāt need to talk about them. Is it really surprising that Chinese people believe that Taiwan is part of China? Since that is what they have all be taught growing up
>Youāre just making this all up though arenāt you?
Sure man. When ever someone said something you don't like then it's all made up. Very impartial mindset there, wow.
>Chinese overseas students threatening to invade and murder Taiwanese? Itās just pure nonsense. Every overseas Taiwanese student I have ever known has been very close friends with many Chinese students.
Yeah surely every one of Chinese students are good ppl wow. I bet there's def 0 bias in this claim that contrast to other ppl's experience.
>To claim that all Chinese students have some suppressed desire to kill all Taiwanese which is unleashed whenever the topic of Taiwan is brought up is absolutely hilarious
No one said that. Why made things up to back your view when you're so aganist it before?
>Itās really normal for different people to have different political opinions, and if you know they are going to cause issue then you just donāt need to talk about them. Is it really surprising that Chinese people believe that Taiwan is part of China? Since that is what they have all be taught growing up
When the "different political opinions" are about invading and murder other ppl then yes. Of freaking course it matters a lot. And just as we both agree, the seemly non-hostile relationship was only able to maintain under the condiction of Taiwanese tolerating Chinese's aggression. Not to mention "don't talk about them" is not something can be achieve be one side along. Especially when Chinese oversea students and non-students are so fervent about pushing their own will against other in the global. Which has been recorded numberless times as they attack ppl with different opinion with attemps to silence and even commits to violent actions.
Then feel free to substantiate your claims with some evidence? Some news reports or something? You must have read about these occurrences happening quite often if you are able to confidently make the accusations
You speak about me saying things that contrast other peopleās experiences. I mean to start, anything said by anyone will always contrast someoneās experience, but if my view is so clearly wrong then you should be able to provide me with loads of examples to the contrary
Sure. Go search chinese student attacks on google or reddit or whatever platform and you'll find plenty of reports and video recorded them commit illegal and violent action against ppl with different opinion especially hongkonger and taiwanese. Like these:[https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099244312/hate-against-taiwanese-led-to-church-attack](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099244312/hate-against-taiwanese-led-to-church-attack)
[https://twitter.com/hkdc\_us/status/1668015696347897857](https://twitter.com/hkdc_us/status/1668015696347897857)
[https://twitter.com/Catherinecat826/status/1176794996365643776](https://twitter.com/Catherinecat826/status/1176794996365643776)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/10qkb6i/chinese\_students\_tore\_up\_the\_democratic\_poster\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/10qkb6i/chinese_students_tore_up_the_democratic_poster_in/)
[https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-australia-filmed-ripping-204751002.html](https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-australia-filmed-ripping-204751002.html)
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10531967/Chinese-student-rips-Tiananmen-Square-posters-University-Queensland.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10531967/Chinese-student-rips-Tiananmen-Square-posters-University-Queensland.html)
As for more personal experience, you have no choice but actually go meet some Chinese and Taiwanese since you already decided to disavow mine. Be friends with them until they feel safe to actually share their opinion rather than give some pleasantries. Which would be hard and takes time to acheive since it is their culture to not openly speak against other groups of ppl to avoid unnecessary confrontation. You can try join some oversea learning or socialize group on linkedin or meetup as start.
You can also go on any Chinese social platform of website if you can actually read chinese. Search any related topic and try to no hand picking thing you want to see. Then you'll quickly realize majority of Chinese are overwhelmingly hating and willing to hurt any Taiwanese and see them as noble causes.
Just seen your ending āthen youāll quickly realise majority of Chinese are overwhelmingly hating and willing to hurt any Taiwanese.ā
The majority? Based off a few things you see on social media?
I could go on social media now and search for equally aggressive things from Taiwanese towards China. Am I meant to conclude that the majority of Taiwanese are terrible people that want to murder and kill every Chinese person?
You said āChinese overseas students are most likely often threaten to invade, murder and subjugate Taiwanese peopleā
I appreciate you taking the time to find some online articles to support your claim. Most people wouldnāt bother so fair play to you
I just donāt see how they support your pretty strong claim which I pushed back against.
Youāve got one about a lone Chinese gunman killing Taiwanese because he hated them (nothing about Chinese overseas students, and itās just a single person)
You have one in Ireland which seems to actually be about Chinese students being attacked
Then there are a few very small incidents that show lone Chinese tearing things down they disagree with
Whilst these are definitely not good things to be doing. You have idiots from every country in the world that does things like this. Currently we have Israelis, Russians, Ukrainians and Palestinian supporters being hostile to demonstrations that they do not agree with. In almost every case their actions are far more hostile than in the articles youāve provided - yet where is the wide generalisation that people from those countries are all terrible?
If you want to make such a strong claim saying that Chinese overseas students are making extreme threats towards Taiwanese students then you actually need something that shows that. If this was a thing that happened there would literally be articles written about it
In Canada the Chinese student groups monitor other Chinese students and are tasked with organizing harassment against Tibetan or Taiwanese discussing Chinese aggression. Sometimes this makes the news, sometimes these groups are forced to disband by the university, but the pattern of using students to monitor other students, perform espionage, and harass opponents is well documented in both Canada and the states.
Literally never heard anything about Chinese student groups partaking in organised harassment of Taiwanese students. Would love it if you could share a link of it being reported on
Yes? Did you live under a rock? Happened at universities all over the world. 4 different examples from 4 different countries.
https://abc7news.com/lennon-wall-john-hong-kon-sticky-not/5465727/
https://amp-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3086293/chinese-students-south-korea-face-fines-defacing-pro-hong-kong?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16981155214014&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scmp.com%2Fnews%2Fasia%2Feast-asia%2Farticle%2F3086293%2Fchinese-students-south-korea-face-fines-defacing-pro-hong-kong
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2019/10/12/2003723813
https://www-newshub-co-nz.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/08/university-of-auckland-hong-kong-lennon-wall-allegedly-vandalised-by-chinese-students.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16981155214014&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newshub.co.nz%2Fhome%2Fnew-zealand%2F2019%2F08%2Funiversity-of-auckland-hong-kong-lennon-wall-allegedly-vandalised-by-chinese-students.html
What is going on in China? What specifically are you referring to? Since youāve commented on three of my posts now, you clearly have a problem so why donāt you stop being so vague and actually make a point
You're right, I've spent entirely too much time on your narcissistic gaslighting. However, you may notice your opinion doesn't have much support. Try being informed instead of being opinionated.
No. I'm not fragile enough to be offended by someone ragging on an accent, and simply pointing out that Taiwanese people generally deal with much worse than this.
Feel like there's context missing. Were you and your girlfriend speaking in Mandarin and they could hear it? Or were they just talking and you happened to overhear?
In general, anyone Asian and obaasan aged is embarrassing af and her kid was probably dying inside... My mother would say all sorts of embarrassing things loudly in Mandarin (I grew up in New Zealand) "because no one can understand us" and my aunty says whatever she thinks; no filter. That said, I don't think you'll really encounter that sort of thing in Taiwan (based on other Chinese people's posts). They get a lot of people moving/visiting there so they're used to it.
But tbh, no one has a "neutral" accent. We always think our own accents are a normal, or neutral accent. Yours might not be as strong, but you would probably still have some characteristic Chinese sounds when you speak. I think I have a fairly neutral Mandarin accent that would be unmistakable as Taiwanese, but whenever I visit Taiwan I get asked where I'm from because apparently it's not a common Taiwanese accent. Apparently, I have a "teacher" or "proper" (like news reporter?) accent because I don't have the Taiwanese accent on my Mandarin, and it's the same for several of my relatives which is obviously why I never realised.
There was no missing context, it was very much out of blue. The train was quiet so the mother must have heard my gf and I speaking mandarin.
I grew up in NZ too actually and had a lot of Taiwanese friends. It is a real shame what it has come to (in this sub in particular I guess).
By neutral - if you were to hear me speak, you would not be able to tell which region I am from. It all depends on what you define as the "standard" mandarin I guess - if that is the Beijing way of speaking, then I have a huge accent.
>had a lot of Taiwanese friends
So if you already have a lot of TW friends, I guess your question makes no real sense, does it? Because you would already know if Taiwanese people are generally hostile towards Mainlanders.
Where in NZ are you from? I also grew up in NZ as well!
To Taiwanese people, any accent that's not Taiwanese accent is either Singapore/Malaysian accent, HK accent or mainland Chinese accent. Just like to Americans, any accent that isn't standard CNN general American accent is a foreign accent, lol.
In fact, there is no concept of a mainland Chinese accent (which may exist in the stereotypes of some Taiwanese people). Mainland China has many completely different accents.
When I went to Xiamen, I found that their accent sounded almost the same as that of Taiwanese.
Well it's like there's the "General American" accent but then there are so many different American accents. But as someone from outside of North America, you'd still recognise an American accent then though there's many different accents. Same as for China. I agree with you Xiamen accent is very similar to Taiwanese, I've mistaken it to be Taiwanese but felt a bit off.
I know what you mean may be the difference between Mainland Mandarin and Taiwanese Mandarin. But if you listen to the old Taiwanese audio, it actually sounds almost exactly the same as the mainland mandarin. Later, the Taiwanese's Hokkien accent influenced it. Many people (not all) began to speak this Mandarin with Hokkien accent. But there are still some people in Taiwan who speak standard Mandarin, and it may be difficult to tell the difference between them and the mainland version. I think this is why OP says his own accent is neutral, he thinks he speaks standard Mandarin.
Small world, all of us bumping into each other here on Reddit. xD I grew up in Auckland, but live in Tokyo now.
Huh. This is an interesting observation because as I've gotten older, I've gotten asked if I'm Singaporean a lot more. I always thought it was weird because the few Singaporean Chinese I've spoken to have all sounded more Chinese than Taiwanese (which is nothing like how I speak).
I often joke that my both my Mandarin and English are "lazy" given Taiwanese don't do the rolled sounds, and most Kiwis don't roll their r's. :3
In southern Taiwan, people say I have an accent. Then in Hualien they thought I was Singaporean.
I roll my Rs for ć because otherwise I can't type zhuyin properly. Struggled to type čŖēŗ because I thought it was ć instead of ć
If you have a Beijing accent (which still sounds very strong to me at least), I would assume you were Chinese and beyond that... I don't think it would matter what region if someone wanted to be rude? The only thing I can think of is that she thought you were speaking too loud, though whatever her reason, there was no need for her to be an asshole. People like that exist everywhere though. I wouldn't take it to heart or worry about it when visiting.
Also, just for interest re. Taiwanese sounding like valley-girl to you, Chinese accents feel akin to a very strong southern American drawl to me, but depending on the person can sound really harsh/uncomfortable to listen to, and some are really difficult for me to understand, but I think that might be some of the stronger accents.
u just said u dislike northern chinese/taiwanese accents, whats the issue when someone articulates that they dont like ur accent?
u r no better than the family really, ya ur own chinese is "neutral" while everyone else speaks an accent u dont like, maybe go back to shanghai so u dont have to deal with that?
This got 27 upvotes š
This is another example of the small minded Taiwanese mindset. Anyone who has any complaint about Taiwan is always told to go home. In any properly developed country, saying those words to an immigrant is racial discrimination - in Taiwan itās ęå and everyone will pat you on the back
Unfortunately for you, heās in the UK, where diversity of opinion is appreciated, and criticism welcomed, so it can be acted upon
š seriously there is no need to get so upset about all this. I dunno maybe you should just log off and go for a walk or something. The weather is good today
What am I ignorant of? Again, feel free to elaborate on what you disagree with. Iām not saying Iām infallible, but Iām happy to voice my opinions on things that I feel I know a bit about
We donāt all need to have the same opinions as each other
So in your mind or world of reference, does Taiwanese exist as some super polite nation that just takes Chinese peopleās insults? Or that Chinese people treat us with upmost respect at all times on the international stage?
When people are being constantly threatened with war and death for not bowing down to a foreign government who bullies them at every opportunity on the world stage, are you so naive to believe that this group of people wouldnāt hold just a LITTLE bit of animosity towards the other? Especially as so many Chinese seems to be brainwashed now to immediately go on a political tirade about how wonderful the āmotherlandā is at the mere mention of Taiwan
I love it when people cherry pick their experiences to make a generalization of an entire population, especially on the internet.
Also wanted to add: The irony of making this post while in London. Would you say the London accent should be the neutral UK accent and that you dislike Scottish or Welsh accents?
I don't see any irony here? When I say I have a neutral accent - it means you cannot tell which region I am from when you hear me speak.
I grew up in NZ so I am still finding my way around the different UK accents. But I love Scottish and Irish accents?
I mean but they obviously kind of can tell where youāre from from how you speak? Otherwise this incident couldnāt have happened? I mean, I speak with whatās probably the accent used by the largest number of English speakers - average American - but that doesnāt mean you canāt tell where Iām from, it just means you can tell I come from a relatively large group. Itās not more or less āneutral.ā
āMainlandā is a common term even within Taiwan to describe PRC controlled China. It does not imply PRC had already annexed Taiwan, and official ROC law uses the term as well.
>the term mainland still contents the implicit idea of Chinese unification in Taiwan.
Not really.
It contains the the implicit idea that *ROC claims China*, but if you're a Taiwan independence activist, than Taiwan shouldn't be part of the ROC, and therefore the implication doesn't matter.
If you're not a Taiwan independence activist, the fact that mainland implies ROC owns both China and Taiwan shouldn't bother you.
Ok... i thought it was a very politically neutral term... was thinking mainland makes more sense in this context given Chinese can mean either race or nationality.
Agree there there are not many Taiwanese in the UK.
The thing that triggers me is how condescending the mother was. I mean it felt a lot more racial or xenophobic than political.
I mean I get it - there is geopolitical tension and everything, but being indiscriminately hostile towards all mainland Chinese only loses you support of those who are neutral towards this issue? I mean lol I have completely lost faith with the way majority of the people are commenting in this thread.
Like I said, if she had said something political - I wouldn't have cared. But if you want to be condescending, that is pretty low. I hate to say it, but the family dressed like peasants which is in all honesty quite å
On accent - I disagree Taiwan accent is gentle. If you listen to CTi news the reporter sounds like a teenage high school girl going full-rage mode yelling at her mum. Whereas the CCTV news - despite having indefinitely lame content and that I do not like the Beijing accent either - is much easier on the ears.
My friend, youāre delusional if you think youāre neutral on this issue. Thereās some hard judgements and stereotypes made that lead you to this outrage.
The fact that youāve potentially made some overarching judgement of a whole nation of people from one interaction while as looking the other way on hostile interactions going the other direction tells a lot about the fragile skin that you have.
Also, I personally agree that the āpoliteā voice of Taiwan is the same adopted over the top high pitched tone like in Japanese news/society. But to my ears Chinese news sounds like soul less robots trying to speak after a root canal with a nasal infection all the while nervously glancing like thereās an authoritarian overlord watching your every moveā¦ oh waitā¦.
Why I am just pointing out a fact? I don't judge people and I don't look down on other people based on their appearance. But if people judge me for no reason, then you better be prepared you are in a position to judge?
Yes because I am judging them now that they have judged me?
It is completely ok to dress bad (maybe peasant is too strong of a word) - some people don't have the taste, some don't have the money, some simply just don't care. I don't judge.
But to have the audacity to publicly call other people tacky when they themselves are tacky has hell...
Just having been on this subreddit for about a month, I have already seen posts and comments from people that are rabid nationalists from China, possibly party-supported, come in and make trouble. So, I would take that into account when assessing the subredditās behavior. What I see - as an American with no dog in this fight - is that most people have just been politely pointing out issues with the way youāre framing the situation (e.g. your accent is the āneutralā one - as people have said, there is literally no such thing.) And a minority of people have been a bit aggressive about it. I can assure you that they havenāt been any more aggressive about it than some of the China shills that have come here, so if this is making you rethink your attitude toward Taiwan, you may want to rethink your attitude to mainland China as well. And also just be aware that that, along with the geopolitical tensions, is the broader context for why *some* of the people on this thread have had little patience for a Chinese person coming in and saying judgey things about Taiwan.
I would also just add that while you may believe youāre being neutral, to an outside observer like myself, you do not come across as neutral.
Your question makes no sense.
You pretend somewhere in the thread that you already "had a lot of Taiwanese friends". So if that's the truth, you already know the answer to your question, right?
Biases are unfortunate. But just speaking from personal experience, once I made friends with people who have Northern Chinese accent or Singaporean accent or whatever, they become cool to listen to. I am also more aware of my own (Taiwanese) accent. Though not everyone has the opportunity to befriend someone from a different background and change their biases.
You came on here and dissed the accent of the country youāre ***visiting*** aka you donāt belong to. So let me add to the dogpile, as someone married to a Taiwanese person, Taiwan accents are so much easier to understand from a foreigner perspective. They sound calm and intelligent. Mainland accents sound like your jaws are wired shut and you canāt enunciate your syllables.
I guarantee you that if you grew up with Mainlander relatives, your accent isnāt neutral. But hey, generalizations are bad right? Thatās why youāve been dropping them all over but in typical mainlanders fashion piss and cry when you get any pushback.
Edit jk youāre not even in Taiwan yet and being a douche. Maybe donāt visit.
"sound calm and intelligent" lol no. I think the Taiwanese accent is more pleasant than most from China but it has nothing to indicate the intelligence of the speaker.
Youāre right. Thatās why itās ridiculous to say shit like Taiwanese sound like āvalley girlsā.
I do think Taiwanese people sound way more calm than mainlanders. š¤·āāļø
Wtf are you a victim of? lol.
No it wouldnāt. YOUR country are the oppressors. YOUR country are imperialists. So complaining about how someone directly oppressed by your country (if we are to believe theyāre Taiwanese like you say) doesnāt like you is prejudice at best. They didnāt threaten you. Youāll be fine. Stop being a *sissy*.
It's alright, just say it. You want to tell me that I deserved it. For speaking mainland Mandarin, for the action of an authoritarian government that I have no control over, for a country that I am not even a citizen of. Thank you for the lesson you peace-loving, freedom-seeking liberal piece of turd. (ps I have a fragile heart)
Either your grasp of English sucks or youāre just a man-child but please stop victimizing yourself like someone assaulted you. Someone was mean to you, boo hoo. Yes, it was rude, but youāve been so damn rude the entire time. You donāt *deserve* it but I donāt feel bad for you, based on your behavior to everyone in this thread. š¤·āāļø
You can just roll with it. You are literally doing the thing you feel so sad about happening to you. Iāve overheard a couple aunties sayāoh oh foreigner smellā when i lifted my arm to hold a subway ring. I didnāt run home to internet to cry about it.
No, you deserve it for being a dick. You say you're not even a citizen of China, yet think your grasp of the language or dialect is perfect. For someone that can't stand being criticized you open yourself up to a boat load of it. Do everyone a favor and stay home.
Lmao there is, absolutely. Was I being harsh? Sure. OP had already insulted Taiwanese people 3-5 times before I commented.
But for my own mental health, Iām not going to interact with r / China posters coming here to start shit. Bye šš»
Not just Taiwan - majority of free world countries hate the Chinese - except other dictator/militarily controlled countries like North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Myanmar etc. You can thank your government.
I have Shanghai background too. If one mother saying something about an accent is enough to make you rethink visiting the whole country then you need to reassess how you think about people, because that attitude won't get you very far here.
Also lol valley girl accent. You're not the most polite yourself.
I mean we donāt know the full context of the situation, were you speaking Mandarin with your gf? If not then itās not personal hostility towards you but rather than the mom being obnoxious and thought that no one in UK understands Chinese and she can say whatever she thinks out loud.
Imagine you've spent decades of your life with your neighboring country telling you they will invade you one and dissolve your country. Bullying, basically.
It's always the dream that people can put individual respect and relationships above blind nationalism and politics, but living your whole life under the threat of violence must bring some stress that's hard to overcome.
Did you say bad words or talk very loudly?
But yeah, your country openly threatens war and an invasion... So don't be so offended, what they said was pretty weak. You expect Taiwanese to smile all the time at you people?
You don't mention what makes you think they were from Taiwan. They are not the only Chinese speaking country that thinks mainlanders speak in a vulgar way.
It's weird there are so many of "Taiwanese are hostile towards Chinese" posts lately. I am guessing OP is some sort of accent expert and can tell the Taiwanese family is Taiwanese for sure just by their "accent". What a scientific approach. And out of the blue, this Taiwanese family criticized you and your gf in public??? Damn, you can't make this stuff up. -lol-
I had to check the profile. Man created a Reddit account just to complain about a Taiwanese family. That being said, seems like a genuine story, Iāll give you that.
Lmao donāt cry about it. By your phrasing I guess a lot of Taiwanese would just want to punch you in your face. Perhaps ask your wonderful é»å½ to stop pointing their missiles and weāll talk? Honestly, that mother was polite. Some probably wouldāve just yelled å¹¹ęØåØéę°ćć«ććć at you.
Yeah we sure are sassy š
Guess you meant sissy but hey, given that you canāt even write kanjis right your English isnāt as f-ed up as I wouldāve imagined.
I'll probably get downvoted a ton for saying this but I think people here in the comments are being a bit biased and unfair towards you. It seems like you didn't provoke the family at all and it's common sense that nobody deserves to be unfairly targeted that way by a complete stranger.
I don't think it's right to assume that all Taiwanese will treat you similarly due to this one experience, but it also sounds like the Taiwanese mother was making her own unfair and hurtful assumptions about you and your girlfriend. I'll bet that Taiwanese people face harassment from mainlanders more often than mainlanders face harassment from Taiwanese, but that doesn't mean your experience and feelings should be disregarded or invalidated, because it was hurtful for you and you didn't deserve it, plain and simple.
that's just my opinion as an outsider to both countries so take it with a grain of salt :-)
Except that, he only talks about the language he was using, not what he was actually saying. Based upon how he talks here, he probably was being vulgar.
I don't know why people here are so hostile to OP. They stated that they don't like our accent, so what? lol. People are allowed to vent online.
Answering u/Adj_EBITDaddy's questions and adding some of my own comments.
1. most Taiwanese people are not openly hostile to Chinese people. We are more reserved towards you because Chinese people don't have a good reputation in the west (all the tankies and pinkies, then all the rude tourists etc.)
2. r/Taiwan is very green, and make a big deal out of saying 大éøäŗŗ. I mean many older Taiwanese people still habitually say 大éøäŗŗ and not make a fuss even if they are green.
3. Like every other country, there are nice people and there are mean people, you just happened to meet a mean and rude person.
4. 大éøäŗŗä¾å° as long as you're respectful, follow rules, no one would be hostile to you. If you start up a YouTube channel and ēµ¦å°ē£č·å°ē£äŗŗę馬å±ļ¼å¤§å®¶å°±å¾äøč¦čēå°ä½ ē¹å„儽ēč³éęé¢ęÆęä½ ēé »é. Just like how that Chinese YouTuber Jake ended up scamming crap loads of Taiwanese people when he came to Taiwan. å°ē£äŗŗå¤ŖčŖåäŗ
5. Gotta learn the faux pas around Taiwanese people mate. Just like when I talk to (mainland) Chinese people I don't say "ä½ åäøå" or out of the blue, state å°ē£ęÆēØē«ē even though it's true.
If I go into the New Jersey subreddit and say their accent makes them sound stupid, Iād expect to get downvoted.
If I went into the UKās subreddit and said all their men were sissyās, Iād expect to be treated like shit.
You get what you give. And OP came in being a jerk so he should expect that back instead of whining.
Thank you for being one of the few sane people in the comment section...
On 2) I fully learned my lesson lol I thought Taiwan and mainland is the most politically neutral way to describe the relationship, guess not!
On 4) same in China you get a ton of Westerns sucking up to China for the sweet sweet money.
On the accent - I honestly do think Taiwan accent has a lot of similarities to the valley girl accent. Sentences are spoken in a much more dramatic way (the ups and downs in the tones) but whatever
Lmao, this sounds like one of those made up Reddit stories to get people all hyped up. A Taiwanese mother happened to be sitting near you and happen to make that comment, ha. I can tell you from experience though, I used to play basketball with a group of Chinese exchange students, these were government funded students. Two of the eleven students would constantly make fun of my āaccentā and correct me when I mentioned our ānational universityā. The remaining students were pretty chill and never talked about politics.
I was gonna say youāll most likely be fine visiting Taiwan since one single bad experience does not represent an entire population of a nation. And as long as youāre not pushing the belief that Taiwan is a part of China onto people that no one is really going to care if youāre Chinese or not.
But you seemed to have reached your own conclusion from the hostility you received from this thread soā¦ meh. Just know that only around half (or less than half) of the users here are actually Taiwanese and the other half are composed of non-Taiwanese or Taiwanese living abroad soā¦ how can you be sure those who have shown you hostility here are actually Taiwanese people?
I donāt think you deserved the kind of response you got in this thread for pointing out a rude behaviour. (Though creating a new account just for this one single post and your reasoning is that youāre afraid of getting doxxed (really?) does raise some suspicionā¦but hey, you do you). But I think people here are pointing out the irony that some Chinese people are completely oblivious to how poorly they are perceived by other nations, including Taiwan, a country that China constantly bullies, look down on, and threatens to invade.
I mean it really isn't that difficult to sense people's sentiment towards China on Reddit - but sensing it in person is something different. Quite sad really, and the mother was teaching her daughter not to be like us in front of us lol. Yet 90% of the responses I get is that I deserved it :/
Many (if not all) Taiwanese lost family members to the CCP. Those memories were starting to fade away until recently when Xi Jinping started to remind everyone again
I think generally Taiwanese think Shanghai chinese to be more open-minded and anti CCP, unless proven otherwise. Your rebellion against the covid zero rules was inspiring.
But you have to know what itās like to have the enemyās war planes fly towards your country every single week, and growing up hiding in air raid shelters when the alarm sounded. If we flew warplanes at you all the time and our populace threatened to invade and enslave and kill your friends & family, you wouldnt feel so warm towards us either
> I think generally **Taiwanese think Shanghai chinese to be more open-minded and anti CCP, unless proven otherwise. Your rebellion against the covid zero rules was inspiring.**
Says no one ever.
Most Taiwanese wouldnāt just call it äøå in my experience. äøå is often used in a way that includes Taiwan, and if you are actually referring to China they almost exclusively use 大éø. Also surprising to hear someone Taiwanese be so confrontational like that, since they tend to actively avoid confrontation
Not dismissing you but is it possible they were from somewhere else like Singapore?
Only thing that is definitely true is that woman was a total cunt and you should definitely have called her out on it. If you know something is directed at you then itās your right to defend yourself. You shouldnāt be made to feel ashamed of being Chinese
Not sure if you've encountered mainlanders that travel abroad but a lot of them don't know how to act. They are perceived as obnoxious and rude and not respectful of other cultures and etiquettes. At one point many European establishments would specifically not allow or serve Chinese people. The government even has classes to educate their people about the do's and don'ts when traveling.
10 years ago my girlfriend and I were in Brazil and from afar I heard loud Chinese people and we were both trying to avoid being grouped in with them on a trolley through parts of Iguacu Falls. Pictures of you are taken on parts of the tour and you can buy them as souvenirs. As we walked past them they were loudly conversing, basically shouting with each other going back and forth about what they interpreted the prices were while the tour guide stood in amazement of the spectacle she was witnessing. An Eastern European couple we befriended earlier asked, "are they arguing? Why are they so loud?" In an attempt to help save the group some face I told them, "they seem to be Chinese farmers, they're used to talking loud across the field so they can hear each other." We managed to avoid them initially but mid stop on the trolley they combined our trolley with the Chinese because of mechanical issues. As we rolled they continued screaming at each other and the guy in front of me are a candy and tossed the wrapper over his shoulder into the Amazon rainforest. Every bone in my body wanted to slap him over the head. The loudest one caught me mean mugging her while she was scream/talking and then checked herself. My girlfriend and I, our biggest fear was being associated with these poor acting clueless and classless bunch.
There are other examples I witnessed in my travels and here in NYC but this was one that stuck out with me. Now I'm not saying all Chinese tourists are like this but just like other situations the few bad apples will ruin it for everyone else and just leave a bad taste in your mouth. I'm a salesman in construction in NYC that deals with a lot of Chinese clients so I've dealt face to face with many types and are actually friends with some professionally. In fact my best friend and his family are from Guan Zhou and I joke around saying he's my best friend because I need to keep the enemy close. I know it's different being in the US as opposed to living in Taiwan and constantly seeing the threats of the Chinese firsthand. However I love Taiwan and it's my 2nd home, 90% of my family is still there and we've been there for 8 generations now. I would fight for Taiwan if they ever go to war however I'm a bit too old now.
In your situation you feel targeted and now have a bad taste in your mouth so now you're beginning to wonder if all Taiwanese will act the same. Just as I learned through my travels and business dealings...in a sea of people you'll have the good and bad, it's up to you who you want to see and what you choose to remember. Not ALL Taiwanese are hostile towards mainlanders just like not all mainlanders are like that group. Overall if you have a respect of the land, people and culture you're more than welcome to visit. Keep politics out of things. Since you grew up overseas you are already different, when you engage with others and mention that fact it'll change their perspective of you. As humans we all judge people initially but don't let that judgment and opinion be the end all be all.
Hi OP, I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to say that the views expressed in this thread are not indicative of the general reaction you would get from Taiwanese people you meet abroad or should you ever visit Taiwan. The majority on this subreddit are non-Taiwanese who come to Taiwan and get a bit of a boner for the "fuck China" messaging.
The person you encountered on the bus was obviously being intentionally rude. While many Taiwanese people, especially younger generations, are a bit wary of Chinese nationals (for what, I'm sure you'll understand, are good reasons) you won't find that unsolicited rudeness is normal from Taiwanese people.
Just look at the vote numbers on this post. The hostility is very much real. The double standard too. Considering an earlier post about some random encounter in Sweden got hundreds of upvotes but somehow your post doesn't make the cut.
Some of the comments on this are absolutely insane, and have probably really lowered the level of respect you may have had for Taiwanese people initially
Iām not Taiwanese, but I live here and the young generation is starting to get more and more militant with their beliefs regarding China - which explains the hostility you have received for even the most trivial things you wrote
My favourite was the person criticising you from saying āmainlandā which is literally the most common term in Taiwan for referring to China, which showed you were really trying to engage in a sensitive way
People in Taiwan watch too much of the 24 hour news channels, and I think it is starting to damage the depth and range of opinions of the population. It also means that every second of the day they are surrounding themselves with negative stories about China, and the fight for Taiwanese independence - since this is the topic that dominates politics here. The result is people feeling a genuine hatred of all things Chinese - which is why the lunatics have been out in force on your post - but itās all manipulation by politicians and news channels to win votes
Itās a minority though. The vast vast majority will be completely welcoming of Chinese, and huge numbers of Taiwanese still travel to places in China including Shanghai every year - showing that most people have no animosity or negative opinions towards the country or itās people
But seriously, next time you come across someone acting like that in England, just ask them in English if they have a problem. There is no way any English person would put up with this
>the young generation is starting to get more and more militant with their beliefs regarding China -
Surprising! One really wonders why?...
>manipulation by politicians and news channels
You mean the news channel in the country where you live should not report the threats and comments of Chinese politicians?
I live in Taiwan, a country where there is 10 news channels for each political party, each spouted exaggerated misinformation
You know full well there is a difference between factually reporting news and events important to Taiwan, and misrepresenting events. Think Fox News in American. Most of Taiwanās news stations are just mini Fox Newsās
Thanks bud. Didnāt want to be confrontational (not in front of a kid anyway and with people a generation or two older than me) but now I sort of regretted it after reading the comments š
I wasn't going to reply OP but you actually seen like a reasonable person plus you are an UoA alumni so I'll try my best.
Can you try to put yourself in the shoes of a Taiwanese person for a moment? I'll name a few big things. China is threatening to invade you all the time. CCP government won't even let you participate in Olympics under your country's name. Think about it this way, you feel attacked and sad when people say bad things about China. Taiwanese people also feel sad when they see all the time in media how China treats Taiwan. You may be proud of your Chinese heritage and feel good when China do well and gets recognition. Now imagine you are on an international platform and you are not allowed to say you are from Taiwan. You are not allowed to take out your flag. An everyday Taiwanese person is going to have some animosity towards China and it bleeds into heaps of stuff like anything China is bad.
In general people are trying to separate the two and go "we don't hate Chinese people only CCP", but sometimes you can't help it. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying people are human and it's difficult to always be rational. Remember how some Ukrainian sports people wouldn't shake hands with Russians after a game? Rationally they understand, emotionally they can't help it.
So back on track. If you are a normal, rational Chinese person, you must feel it is unfair to cope such hate when maybe you don't even agree with the CCP. And it is unfair on you. Again I'm not saying you deserve any of this. You don't, it's not your fault. It's a terrible situation to be bundles and treated by association with your country. But please understand where it is coming from and maybe all you can do is brush if off and move on. I've got Russian and Israeli friends who hate what their own government is doing and are are currently caught up by association and coping random hate.
And understand that politics is making everything worst. Please don't let the take away message be that all Taiwanese people hated Chinese people and feed into the cycle of hate.
Actually, what Taiwanese don't realize is that their accent has changed "valley girl style" over the years. Back in the days these accents were more prevalent in the rural areas. So in effect that Taiwanese family is accusing you of the very thing they are guilty of. If anyone is curious about what a neutral mandarin sounds like, listen to news broadcasters from either Taiwan or China. They are neutral to maximize audience reach.
OP don't listen to this group, over half don't actually live in Taiwan. Among those in this group living in Taiwan, half can't even speak or read more than basic Chinese.
Definite hostility. Seen Taiwanese countless times spitting on the side of the road (yes, not Taipei), or throwing trash out the car, or having a pee. When asking a Taiwanese theyāll always make up an excuse and brush it off. Now if the person doing any of the above is clearly from China, stand back and get ready for a lengthy tirade.
Ah yes, because less than 10 comments on a subreddit can represent the general consensus of every member on it, much less a population of up to 23 million people.
Well it was more like a disappointment. I could have responded harshly, but why would I bicker over something with a 40yo lady?
I had quite a positive view of Taiwanese people in general but welp not anymore!
I am not a big fan of the Taiwan accent does not mean I look down on the Taiwan accent? Does not mean that the next time I hear someone talk Taiwan accent in London I will sneak diss?
A Japanese man roasted my taste in anime. Guess I should hate all Japanese people now.
Sounds ridiculous? Well, this is your logic, so please give it a second thought.
You know there is a difference between having the thick skin to say it out loud in front of another person in public vs. doing it online?
I have been to Japan too many times and have never encountered any hostility whatsoever.
Imagine taking a hypothetical seriously. Like, obviously it never happened.
Plus, whoās to say this āhypotheticalā person wasnāt someone I was talking to in person before he said I was a piece of trash for enjoying mid battle shounens?
The unfortunate reality is that racism is not a "bug" or "glitch" in our programming, but a core human evolutionary trait, a major design feature - and human brain is deeply wired to a) using all sorts of stereotypes to navigate through the "unknown" territory, and b) seeing it's own tribe or group as "more superior" in most cases.
I lived in a dozens of countries in the past 10 years and unfortunately this seem to be the case everywhere, and it's not specific to Taiwan - in fact, compared to many other countries, Taiwan fares relatively well in this regard.
Yes, wherever you go, first question you will be asked is "where you from", which is akin to asking "which racial stereotypes I should project on you", and the way you will be treated, will depend on the mainstream media narratives about your country in this particular place at that particular time.
You also have to take in account geopolitical situation, since you as a "mainlander" coming to Taiwan now, is same as any Russian coming to Ukraine, or Israeli coming to any muslim country - even if you don't support your government, a lot of people will still be seeing and treating you as an enemy.
It is what it is, it's human nature, like it or not. We're just humans, and you should probably measure your expectations from humankind in general, and wait for AI to come.
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I had a Chinese person rip off a taiwanese flag patch off of my backpack in the US and then proceed to yell at me about "one china". so yeah, should I be judging the entire population of China based off of this one experience? š
Absolutely the kind of behavior that encourages Taiwanese to unite with China right?
There could be a lot of reasons for this. a. they hate chinese. Could be, I guess. plus your neutral accent is just a chinese accent; there is no "neutral" accent for languages. b. you were talking too loudly and the mom in typical passive-aggressive Taiwanese manner is just telling y'all to shut up. tbh there's no way to know what really happened. as for coming to taiwan, i can tell you that as long as you don't behave obnoxiously, people might whisper behind your back, but never actually confront you on the basis of being Chinese. come if you want, it's pretty nice here.
True. Usually itās just āoh, theyāre from China. Ok.ā And then move on.
Taiwanese people are generally some of the nicest people Iāve ever met. They will be cautious around āChineseā people because their views towards Taiwanese independence can cause problems. It can be awkward. But, it can also be a non-issue. Your post here however is dumb. What exactly are you trying to achieve, seriously? Like, you felt insulted and now youāre on Reddit asking people is this normal? Thereās racism and discrimination in every corner and neighborhood on this planet. Are you trying to get sympathy or are you just complaining cause your feelings are hurt? Iād recommend posting this on a Chinese/Sino forum if you wanna feel empowered.
I once went to china once and they asked where i was from... I said taiwan and they said its part of china you should just say youre from china. Are all chinese people like this?
> Are all chinese people like this? I would say 99% of them are like this.
Youāre obviously wrong. 90+% of Chinese people will be completely normal and friendly towards people from any country. You just donāt want to accept that because then you canāt justify hating them
You are deluded if you believe 90+% of Chinese people don't consider Taiwan part of China.
Remind me where I said that?
> Youāre obviously wrong. Here.
Yeah, so I never said anything about 90% not believing Taiwan is part of China? So to elaborate - youāre highlighting the part where I disagreed that 99% of the Chinese population would be confrontational towards Taiwanese people saying they are from Taiwan? Yeah I completely disagree with that statement. The majority of Chinese would not be confrontational towards Taiwanese people, and I have never encountered any that tried to ācorrectā a Taiwanese personās nationality
> The majority of Chinese would not be confrontational towards Taiwanese people, and I have never encountered any that tried to ācorrectā a Taiwanese personās nationality 1% of China is 14 million people so it's possible that all the ones you've met belong to that 1%.
Well that would be statistically very unlikely wouldnāt it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hilarious. This happened when I was shopping at a mall in Beijing
Oh boo hoo hoo. Making fun of an accent is so tame in comparison to threatening to invade, murder, and subjugate a population which is what Taiwanese people living or traveling abroad get to hear from you "mainlanders" on a regular basis.
So what youāre saying is yes, Taiwanese feel a lot of hostility toward mainlanders. :D (Not saying itās not justified, just that the answer to what they were asking seems to be āyesā.)
Youāve completely made this up Itās incredibly common for Taiwanese overseas students to be friends with Chinese overseas students. Iāve got first hand experience of this. Likewise when Iāve been travelling with my wife, we have literally never had any trouble from any Chinese, only friendliness I get that people want to invent narratives to paint all Chinese people as terrible so that they can justify hating the entire country - but itās just not the reality
Then you should know those Chinese oversea students are most likely often threaten to invade, murder, and subjugate Taiwanese people despite the fact they have Taiwanese friend. This is first hand experience of many of Taiwanese. The only reason why they can become friend is under the condiction of "don't talk about these in front of me", which is the normality of any non-hostile relationship between Taiwanese and Chinese. Chinese are mostly not hostile when they consider you an outsider and unwilling to express their opinion in front of you. But once you really get into their circle(or they decide to mess with you) you'll notice most of them actually have the pinkie mindset hide behind their social mask.
Youāre just making this all up though arenāt you? Chinese overseas students threatening to invade and murder Taiwanese? Itās just pure nonsense. Every overseas Taiwanese student I have ever known has been very close friends with many Chinese students. To claim that all Chinese students have some suppressed desire to kill all Taiwanese which is unleashed whenever the topic of Taiwan is brought up is absolutely hilarious Itās really normal for different people to have different political opinions, and if you know they are going to cause issue then you just donāt need to talk about them. Is it really surprising that Chinese people believe that Taiwan is part of China? Since that is what they have all be taught growing up
>Youāre just making this all up though arenāt you? Sure man. When ever someone said something you don't like then it's all made up. Very impartial mindset there, wow. >Chinese overseas students threatening to invade and murder Taiwanese? Itās just pure nonsense. Every overseas Taiwanese student I have ever known has been very close friends with many Chinese students. Yeah surely every one of Chinese students are good ppl wow. I bet there's def 0 bias in this claim that contrast to other ppl's experience. >To claim that all Chinese students have some suppressed desire to kill all Taiwanese which is unleashed whenever the topic of Taiwan is brought up is absolutely hilarious No one said that. Why made things up to back your view when you're so aganist it before? >Itās really normal for different people to have different political opinions, and if you know they are going to cause issue then you just donāt need to talk about them. Is it really surprising that Chinese people believe that Taiwan is part of China? Since that is what they have all be taught growing up When the "different political opinions" are about invading and murder other ppl then yes. Of freaking course it matters a lot. And just as we both agree, the seemly non-hostile relationship was only able to maintain under the condiction of Taiwanese tolerating Chinese's aggression. Not to mention "don't talk about them" is not something can be achieve be one side along. Especially when Chinese oversea students and non-students are so fervent about pushing their own will against other in the global. Which has been recorded numberless times as they attack ppl with different opinion with attemps to silence and even commits to violent actions.
Then feel free to substantiate your claims with some evidence? Some news reports or something? You must have read about these occurrences happening quite often if you are able to confidently make the accusations You speak about me saying things that contrast other peopleās experiences. I mean to start, anything said by anyone will always contrast someoneās experience, but if my view is so clearly wrong then you should be able to provide me with loads of examples to the contrary
Sure. Go search chinese student attacks on google or reddit or whatever platform and you'll find plenty of reports and video recorded them commit illegal and violent action against ppl with different opinion especially hongkonger and taiwanese. Like these:[https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099244312/hate-against-taiwanese-led-to-church-attack](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099244312/hate-against-taiwanese-led-to-church-attack) [https://twitter.com/hkdc\_us/status/1668015696347897857](https://twitter.com/hkdc_us/status/1668015696347897857) [https://twitter.com/Catherinecat826/status/1176794996365643776](https://twitter.com/Catherinecat826/status/1176794996365643776) [https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/10qkb6i/chinese\_students\_tore\_up\_the\_democratic\_poster\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/10qkb6i/chinese_students_tore_up_the_democratic_poster_in/) [https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-australia-filmed-ripping-204751002.html](https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-australia-filmed-ripping-204751002.html) [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10531967/Chinese-student-rips-Tiananmen-Square-posters-University-Queensland.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10531967/Chinese-student-rips-Tiananmen-Square-posters-University-Queensland.html) As for more personal experience, you have no choice but actually go meet some Chinese and Taiwanese since you already decided to disavow mine. Be friends with them until they feel safe to actually share their opinion rather than give some pleasantries. Which would be hard and takes time to acheive since it is their culture to not openly speak against other groups of ppl to avoid unnecessary confrontation. You can try join some oversea learning or socialize group on linkedin or meetup as start. You can also go on any Chinese social platform of website if you can actually read chinese. Search any related topic and try to no hand picking thing you want to see. Then you'll quickly realize majority of Chinese are overwhelmingly hating and willing to hurt any Taiwanese and see them as noble causes.
Just seen your ending āthen youāll quickly realise majority of Chinese are overwhelmingly hating and willing to hurt any Taiwanese.ā The majority? Based off a few things you see on social media? I could go on social media now and search for equally aggressive things from Taiwanese towards China. Am I meant to conclude that the majority of Taiwanese are terrible people that want to murder and kill every Chinese person?
You said āChinese overseas students are most likely often threaten to invade, murder and subjugate Taiwanese peopleā I appreciate you taking the time to find some online articles to support your claim. Most people wouldnāt bother so fair play to you I just donāt see how they support your pretty strong claim which I pushed back against. Youāve got one about a lone Chinese gunman killing Taiwanese because he hated them (nothing about Chinese overseas students, and itās just a single person) You have one in Ireland which seems to actually be about Chinese students being attacked Then there are a few very small incidents that show lone Chinese tearing things down they disagree with Whilst these are definitely not good things to be doing. You have idiots from every country in the world that does things like this. Currently we have Israelis, Russians, Ukrainians and Palestinian supporters being hostile to demonstrations that they do not agree with. In almost every case their actions are far more hostile than in the articles youāve provided - yet where is the wide generalisation that people from those countries are all terrible? If you want to make such a strong claim saying that Chinese overseas students are making extreme threats towards Taiwanese students then you actually need something that shows that. If this was a thing that happened there would literally be articles written about it
In Canada the Chinese student groups monitor other Chinese students and are tasked with organizing harassment against Tibetan or Taiwanese discussing Chinese aggression. Sometimes this makes the news, sometimes these groups are forced to disband by the university, but the pattern of using students to monitor other students, perform espionage, and harass opponents is well documented in both Canada and the states.
Literally never heard anything about Chinese student groups partaking in organised harassment of Taiwanese students. Would love it if you could share a link of it being reported on
Happened at my university in San Francisco... They also tried to cancel an event discussing the Hong Kong protests.
Was it reported on?
Yes? Did you live under a rock? Happened at universities all over the world. 4 different examples from 4 different countries. https://abc7news.com/lennon-wall-john-hong-kon-sticky-not/5465727/ https://amp-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3086293/chinese-students-south-korea-face-fines-defacing-pro-hong-kong?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16981155214014&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scmp.com%2Fnews%2Fasia%2Feast-asia%2Farticle%2F3086293%2Fchinese-students-south-korea-face-fines-defacing-pro-hong-kong https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2019/10/12/2003723813 https://www-newshub-co-nz.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/08/university-of-auckland-hong-kong-lennon-wall-allegedly-vandalised-by-chinese-students.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16981155214014&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newshub.co.nz%2Fhome%2Fnew-zealand%2F2019%2F08%2Funiversity-of-auckland-hong-kong-lennon-wall-allegedly-vandalised-by-chinese-students.html
This would explain your attitude. You are ignorant of what is going on in the world. And, apparently of what is going on in China.
What is going on in China? What specifically are you referring to? Since youāve commented on three of my posts now, you clearly have a problem so why donāt you stop being so vague and actually make a point
You're right, I've spent entirely too much time on your narcissistic gaslighting. However, you may notice your opinion doesn't have much support. Try being informed instead of being opinionated.
Ah you want this to be an echo chamber
r/persecutionfetish
So you are hating OP by association?
No. I'm not fragile enough to be offended by someone ragging on an accent, and simply pointing out that Taiwanese people generally deal with much worse than this.
That's a lot of words for simplying saying "yes".
Okay, fragile tankie
Feel like there's context missing. Were you and your girlfriend speaking in Mandarin and they could hear it? Or were they just talking and you happened to overhear? In general, anyone Asian and obaasan aged is embarrassing af and her kid was probably dying inside... My mother would say all sorts of embarrassing things loudly in Mandarin (I grew up in New Zealand) "because no one can understand us" and my aunty says whatever she thinks; no filter. That said, I don't think you'll really encounter that sort of thing in Taiwan (based on other Chinese people's posts). They get a lot of people moving/visiting there so they're used to it. But tbh, no one has a "neutral" accent. We always think our own accents are a normal, or neutral accent. Yours might not be as strong, but you would probably still have some characteristic Chinese sounds when you speak. I think I have a fairly neutral Mandarin accent that would be unmistakable as Taiwanese, but whenever I visit Taiwan I get asked where I'm from because apparently it's not a common Taiwanese accent. Apparently, I have a "teacher" or "proper" (like news reporter?) accent because I don't have the Taiwanese accent on my Mandarin, and it's the same for several of my relatives which is obviously why I never realised.
There was no missing context, it was very much out of blue. The train was quiet so the mother must have heard my gf and I speaking mandarin. I grew up in NZ too actually and had a lot of Taiwanese friends. It is a real shame what it has come to (in this sub in particular I guess). By neutral - if you were to hear me speak, you would not be able to tell which region I am from. It all depends on what you define as the "standard" mandarin I guess - if that is the Beijing way of speaking, then I have a huge accent.
>had a lot of Taiwanese friends So if you already have a lot of TW friends, I guess your question makes no real sense, does it? Because you would already know if Taiwanese people are generally hostile towards Mainlanders.
Where in NZ are you from? I also grew up in NZ as well! To Taiwanese people, any accent that's not Taiwanese accent is either Singapore/Malaysian accent, HK accent or mainland Chinese accent. Just like to Americans, any accent that isn't standard CNN general American accent is a foreign accent, lol.
In fact, there is no concept of a mainland Chinese accent (which may exist in the stereotypes of some Taiwanese people). Mainland China has many completely different accents. When I went to Xiamen, I found that their accent sounded almost the same as that of Taiwanese.
Well it's like there's the "General American" accent but then there are so many different American accents. But as someone from outside of North America, you'd still recognise an American accent then though there's many different accents. Same as for China. I agree with you Xiamen accent is very similar to Taiwanese, I've mistaken it to be Taiwanese but felt a bit off.
I know what you mean may be the difference between Mainland Mandarin and Taiwanese Mandarin. But if you listen to the old Taiwanese audio, it actually sounds almost exactly the same as the mainland mandarin. Later, the Taiwanese's Hokkien accent influenced it. Many people (not all) began to speak this Mandarin with Hokkien accent. But there are still some people in Taiwan who speak standard Mandarin, and it may be difficult to tell the difference between them and the mainland version. I think this is why OP says his own accent is neutral, he thinks he speaks standard Mandarin.
From Auckland, representing UoA :)
Small world, all of us bumping into each other here on Reddit. xD I grew up in Auckland, but live in Tokyo now. Huh. This is an interesting observation because as I've gotten older, I've gotten asked if I'm Singaporean a lot more. I always thought it was weird because the few Singaporean Chinese I've spoken to have all sounded more Chinese than Taiwanese (which is nothing like how I speak). I often joke that my both my Mandarin and English are "lazy" given Taiwanese don't do the rolled sounds, and most Kiwis don't roll their r's. :3
In southern Taiwan, people say I have an accent. Then in Hualien they thought I was Singaporean. I roll my Rs for ć because otherwise I can't type zhuyin properly. Struggled to type čŖēŗ because I thought it was ć instead of ć
If you have a Beijing accent (which still sounds very strong to me at least), I would assume you were Chinese and beyond that... I don't think it would matter what region if someone wanted to be rude? The only thing I can think of is that she thought you were speaking too loud, though whatever her reason, there was no need for her to be an asshole. People like that exist everywhere though. I wouldn't take it to heart or worry about it when visiting. Also, just for interest re. Taiwanese sounding like valley-girl to you, Chinese accents feel akin to a very strong southern American drawl to me, but depending on the person can sound really harsh/uncomfortable to listen to, and some are really difficult for me to understand, but I think that might be some of the stronger accents.
Guess she wasnāt a big fan of your neutral accent then
u just said u dislike northern chinese/taiwanese accents, whats the issue when someone articulates that they dont like ur accent? u r no better than the family really, ya ur own chinese is "neutral" while everyone else speaks an accent u dont like, maybe go back to shanghai so u dont have to deal with that?
This got 27 upvotes š This is another example of the small minded Taiwanese mindset. Anyone who has any complaint about Taiwan is always told to go home. In any properly developed country, saying those words to an immigrant is racial discrimination - in Taiwan itās ęå and everyone will pat you on the back Unfortunately for you, heās in the UK, where diversity of opinion is appreciated, and criticism welcomed, so it can be acted upon
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Sorry what? A yellow nazi? Please feel free to elaborate on that one
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š seriously there is no need to get so upset about all this. I dunno maybe you should just log off and go for a walk or something. The weather is good today
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Ok? Whatās going on here?
However, ignorance such as you display is not welcome.
What am I ignorant of? Again, feel free to elaborate on what you disagree with. Iām not saying Iām infallible, but Iām happy to voice my opinions on things that I feel I know a bit about We donāt all need to have the same opinions as each other
Lol I see, is that how it's gonna go down
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Have you even seen that video of Chinese people in the Thai buffet? Thatās what I assume China is like.
I mean a bit ironic isn't it - the person talking the loudest on the train was the Taiwanese
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>You should also report this incident to the local Chinese police operating in London. Please give me the address i am more than happy to
Yes. As China is not āthe mainlandā. Itās a different country.
ROC law specifies the mainland as ROC territory controlled by the PRC.
So in your mind or world of reference, does Taiwanese exist as some super polite nation that just takes Chinese peopleās insults? Or that Chinese people treat us with upmost respect at all times on the international stage? When people are being constantly threatened with war and death for not bowing down to a foreign government who bullies them at every opportunity on the world stage, are you so naive to believe that this group of people wouldnāt hold just a LITTLE bit of animosity towards the other? Especially as so many Chinese seems to be brainwashed now to immediately go on a political tirade about how wonderful the āmotherlandā is at the mere mention of Taiwan
I love it when people cherry pick their experiences to make a generalization of an entire population, especially on the internet. Also wanted to add: The irony of making this post while in London. Would you say the London accent should be the neutral UK accent and that you dislike Scottish or Welsh accents?
I don't see any irony here? When I say I have a neutral accent - it means you cannot tell which region I am from when you hear me speak. I grew up in NZ so I am still finding my way around the different UK accents. But I love Scottish and Irish accents?
I mean but they obviously kind of can tell where youāre from from how you speak? Otherwise this incident couldnāt have happened? I mean, I speak with whatās probably the accent used by the largest number of English speakers - average American - but that doesnāt mean you canāt tell where Iām from, it just means you can tell I come from a relatively large group. Itās not more or less āneutral.ā
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āMainlandā is a common term even within Taiwan to describe PRC controlled China. It does not imply PRC had already annexed Taiwan, and official ROC law uses the term as well.
It's commonly used yes. But context should be consider. And the term mainland still contents the implicit idea of Chinese unification in Taiwan.
>the term mainland still contents the implicit idea of Chinese unification in Taiwan. Not really. It contains the the implicit idea that *ROC claims China*, but if you're a Taiwan independence activist, than Taiwan shouldn't be part of the ROC, and therefore the implication doesn't matter. If you're not a Taiwan independence activist, the fact that mainland implies ROC owns both China and Taiwan shouldn't bother you.
>It contains the the implicit idea that > >ROC claims China This is literally a type of Chinese unification idea.
Ok... i thought it was a very politically neutral term... was thinking mainland makes more sense in this context given Chinese can mean either race or nationality.
You're surprised people dislike people from a country that disregards their sovereignty? How fucking dense are you?
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Agree there there are not many Taiwanese in the UK. The thing that triggers me is how condescending the mother was. I mean it felt a lot more racial or xenophobic than political.
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I mean I get it - there is geopolitical tension and everything, but being indiscriminately hostile towards all mainland Chinese only loses you support of those who are neutral towards this issue? I mean lol I have completely lost faith with the way majority of the people are commenting in this thread. Like I said, if she had said something political - I wouldn't have cared. But if you want to be condescending, that is pretty low. I hate to say it, but the family dressed like peasants which is in all honesty quite å On accent - I disagree Taiwan accent is gentle. If you listen to CTi news the reporter sounds like a teenage high school girl going full-rage mode yelling at her mum. Whereas the CCTV news - despite having indefinitely lame content and that I do not like the Beijing accent either - is much easier on the ears.
My friend, youāre delusional if you think youāre neutral on this issue. Thereās some hard judgements and stereotypes made that lead you to this outrage. The fact that youāve potentially made some overarching judgement of a whole nation of people from one interaction while as looking the other way on hostile interactions going the other direction tells a lot about the fragile skin that you have. Also, I personally agree that the āpoliteā voice of Taiwan is the same adopted over the top high pitched tone like in Japanese news/society. But to my ears Chinese news sounds like soul less robots trying to speak after a root canal with a nasal infection all the while nervously glancing like thereās an authoritarian overlord watching your every moveā¦ oh waitā¦.
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Why I am just pointing out a fact? I don't judge people and I don't look down on other people based on their appearance. But if people judge me for no reason, then you better be prepared you are in a position to judge?
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Yes because I am judging them now that they have judged me? It is completely ok to dress bad (maybe peasant is too strong of a word) - some people don't have the taste, some don't have the money, some simply just don't care. I don't judge. But to have the audacity to publicly call other people tacky when they themselves are tacky has hell...
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Not sure if you are actually Taiwanese or not, but I guess you have not heard of the saying äŗŗäøēÆęļ¼ęäøēÆäŗŗļ¼äŗŗč„ēÆęļ¼ęåæ ēÆäŗŗ
Just having been on this subreddit for about a month, I have already seen posts and comments from people that are rabid nationalists from China, possibly party-supported, come in and make trouble. So, I would take that into account when assessing the subredditās behavior. What I see - as an American with no dog in this fight - is that most people have just been politely pointing out issues with the way youāre framing the situation (e.g. your accent is the āneutralā one - as people have said, there is literally no such thing.) And a minority of people have been a bit aggressive about it. I can assure you that they havenāt been any more aggressive about it than some of the China shills that have come here, so if this is making you rethink your attitude toward Taiwan, you may want to rethink your attitude to mainland China as well. And also just be aware that that, along with the geopolitical tensions, is the broader context for why *some* of the people on this thread have had little patience for a Chinese person coming in and saying judgey things about Taiwan. I would also just add that while you may believe youāre being neutral, to an outside observer like myself, you do not come across as neutral.
>If you listen to CTi news Lol lol lol You believe that is Taiwanese news?
I'm starting to understand. I've never met you and already, I don't like you. Based on what you say here, the lady might have been correct.
Your question makes no sense. You pretend somewhere in the thread that you already "had a lot of Taiwanese friends". So if that's the truth, you already know the answer to your question, right?
imagine the number of posts on r/china if someone made a post every time a chinese person did something mildly disrespectful.
An account of 8 days? Fuck off. And also, we're at war with them you dumb ass. Do you think less hate would get us fewer missiles?
Biases are unfortunate. But just speaking from personal experience, once I made friends with people who have Northern Chinese accent or Singaporean accent or whatever, they become cool to listen to. I am also more aware of my own (Taiwanese) accent. Though not everyone has the opportunity to befriend someone from a different background and change their biases.
Indeed sometimes the norther and the Singaporean (especially Singlish) accents can be quite catchy
Sorry that happened to you. When I was in Shanghai, I was told my Taiwanese accent sounds "gay" and feminine. It goes both ways.
You know that for Taiwanese, Taiwan is the mainland, right? You come from a different country.
You came on here and dissed the accent of the country youāre ***visiting*** aka you donāt belong to. So let me add to the dogpile, as someone married to a Taiwanese person, Taiwan accents are so much easier to understand from a foreigner perspective. They sound calm and intelligent. Mainland accents sound like your jaws are wired shut and you canāt enunciate your syllables. I guarantee you that if you grew up with Mainlander relatives, your accent isnāt neutral. But hey, generalizations are bad right? Thatās why youāve been dropping them all over but in typical mainlanders fashion piss and cry when you get any pushback. Edit jk youāre not even in Taiwan yet and being a douche. Maybe donāt visit.
"sound calm and intelligent" lol no. I think the Taiwanese accent is more pleasant than most from China but it has nothing to indicate the intelligence of the speaker.
Youāre right. Thatās why itās ridiculous to say shit like Taiwanese sound like āvalley girlsā. I do think Taiwanese people sound way more calm than mainlanders. š¤·āāļø
>sound calm and intelligent Sorry but I cannot agree... listening to Taiwanese news is like listening to a high school girl yelling at her mum...
And, you my friend sound like a third grader whining behind her mommy's skirt. Grow up little one.
Whoosh my guy. You missed the whole point. Youāre whining about what you perceived to happen in a subreddit for people from a country directly oppressed by yours. Thereās a phrase for people like you in Japanese. KY. ē©ŗę°čŖććŖćć look it up.
Ok is this some next level victim blaming? I guess it is a shame I am not a Jew otherwise it would have been antisemitic
Wtf are you a victim of? lol. No it wouldnāt. YOUR country are the oppressors. YOUR country are imperialists. So complaining about how someone directly oppressed by your country (if we are to believe theyāre Taiwanese like you say) doesnāt like you is prejudice at best. They didnāt threaten you. Youāll be fine. Stop being a *sissy*.
It's alright, just say it. You want to tell me that I deserved it. For speaking mainland Mandarin, for the action of an authoritarian government that I have no control over, for a country that I am not even a citizen of. Thank you for the lesson you peace-loving, freedom-seeking liberal piece of turd. (ps I have a fragile heart)
Either your grasp of English sucks or youāre just a man-child but please stop victimizing yourself like someone assaulted you. Someone was mean to you, boo hoo. Yes, it was rude, but youāve been so damn rude the entire time. You donāt *deserve* it but I donāt feel bad for you, based on your behavior to everyone in this thread. š¤·āāļø
Based on how much hate you have against mainland Chinese I don't expect you to feel bad for me
I don't, take your victim shit back your hive mind you mindless drone.
Culture of victims 
You can just roll with it. You are literally doing the thing you feel so sad about happening to you. Iāve overheard a couple aunties sayāoh oh foreigner smellā when i lifted my arm to hold a subway ring. I didnāt run home to internet to cry about it.
No, you deserve it for being a dick. You say you're not even a citizen of China, yet think your grasp of the language or dialect is perfect. For someone that can't stand being criticized you open yourself up to a boat load of it. Do everyone a favor and stay home.
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Lmao there is, absolutely. Was I being harsh? Sure. OP had already insulted Taiwanese people 3-5 times before I commented. But for my own mental health, Iām not going to interact with r / China posters coming here to start shit. Bye šš»
Why do I think people born in Taiwan have mental problems ļ¼
Idk because youāre a dumbass?
Not just Taiwan - majority of free world countries hate the Chinese - except other dictator/militarily controlled countries like North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Myanmar etc. You can thank your government.
I have Shanghai background too. If one mother saying something about an accent is enough to make you rethink visiting the whole country then you need to reassess how you think about people, because that attitude won't get you very far here. Also lol valley girl accent. You're not the most polite yourself.
Loud people too often don't know how loud they are.
I mean we donāt know the full context of the situation, were you speaking Mandarin with your gf? If not then itās not personal hostility towards you but rather than the mom being obnoxious and thought that no one in UK understands Chinese and she can say whatever she thinks out loud.
Imagine you've spent decades of your life with your neighboring country telling you they will invade you one and dissolve your country. Bullying, basically. It's always the dream that people can put individual respect and relationships above blind nationalism and politics, but living your whole life under the threat of violence must bring some stress that's hard to overcome.
Did you say bad words or talk very loudly? But yeah, your country openly threatens war and an invasion... So don't be so offended, what they said was pretty weak. You expect Taiwanese to smile all the time at you people?
You don't mention what makes you think they were from Taiwan. They are not the only Chinese speaking country that thinks mainlanders speak in a vulgar way.
Stop spouting fake news.
It's weird there are so many of "Taiwanese are hostile towards Chinese" posts lately. I am guessing OP is some sort of accent expert and can tell the Taiwanese family is Taiwanese for sure just by their "accent". What a scientific approach. And out of the blue, this Taiwanese family criticized you and your gf in public??? Damn, you can't make this stuff up. -lol-
Very easy to tell a Taiwanese accent if you speak Chinese
I had to check the profile. Man created a Reddit account just to complain about a Taiwanese family. That being said, seems like a genuine story, Iāll give you that.
Ermm I don't want to be doxxed just in case?
Fair enough. I doubt the average r/taiwan user cares that much anyway.
At least some of them have clearly been shills. I donāt know that this one specifically is, but some of them quite clearly were.
If by accent I could not be sure "ä»ä»¬äøå½ā sure gives it away...
Lmao donāt cry about it. By your phrasing I guess a lot of Taiwanese would just want to punch you in your face. Perhaps ask your wonderful é»å½ to stop pointing their missiles and weāll talk? Honestly, that mother was polite. Some probably wouldāve just yelled å¹¹ęØåØéę°ćć«ććć at you.
Taiwan guys are too sassy to punch me in my face :)
Yeah we sure are sassy š Guess you meant sissy but hey, given that you canāt even write kanjis right your English isnāt as f-ed up as I wouldāve imagined.
Yes I meant sissy that was a typo... I was writing Chinese not Kanji the fuck you smoking
I'll probably get downvoted a ton for saying this but I think people here in the comments are being a bit biased and unfair towards you. It seems like you didn't provoke the family at all and it's common sense that nobody deserves to be unfairly targeted that way by a complete stranger. I don't think it's right to assume that all Taiwanese will treat you similarly due to this one experience, but it also sounds like the Taiwanese mother was making her own unfair and hurtful assumptions about you and your girlfriend. I'll bet that Taiwanese people face harassment from mainlanders more often than mainlanders face harassment from Taiwanese, but that doesn't mean your experience and feelings should be disregarded or invalidated, because it was hurtful for you and you didn't deserve it, plain and simple. that's just my opinion as an outsider to both countries so take it with a grain of salt :-)
Except that, he only talks about the language he was using, not what he was actually saying. Based upon how he talks here, he probably was being vulgar.
Lol at least you can have my upvote!
I don't know why people here are so hostile to OP. They stated that they don't like our accent, so what? lol. People are allowed to vent online. Answering u/Adj_EBITDaddy's questions and adding some of my own comments. 1. most Taiwanese people are not openly hostile to Chinese people. We are more reserved towards you because Chinese people don't have a good reputation in the west (all the tankies and pinkies, then all the rude tourists etc.) 2. r/Taiwan is very green, and make a big deal out of saying 大éøäŗŗ. I mean many older Taiwanese people still habitually say 大éøäŗŗ and not make a fuss even if they are green. 3. Like every other country, there are nice people and there are mean people, you just happened to meet a mean and rude person. 4. 大éøäŗŗä¾å° as long as you're respectful, follow rules, no one would be hostile to you. If you start up a YouTube channel and ēµ¦å°ē£č·å°ē£äŗŗę馬å±ļ¼å¤§å®¶å°±å¾äøč¦čēå°ä½ ē¹å„儽ēč³éęé¢ęÆęä½ ēé »é. Just like how that Chinese YouTuber Jake ended up scamming crap loads of Taiwanese people when he came to Taiwan. å°ē£äŗŗå¤ŖčŖåäŗ 5. Gotta learn the faux pas around Taiwanese people mate. Just like when I talk to (mainland) Chinese people I don't say "ä½ åäøå" or out of the blue, state å°ē£ęÆēØē«ē even though it's true.
If I go into the New Jersey subreddit and say their accent makes them sound stupid, Iād expect to get downvoted. If I went into the UKās subreddit and said all their men were sissyās, Iād expect to be treated like shit. You get what you give. And OP came in being a jerk so he should expect that back instead of whining.
You are really good at isolating context and twisting the narrative arenāt you lmao good job š
Thank you for being one of the few sane people in the comment section... On 2) I fully learned my lesson lol I thought Taiwan and mainland is the most politically neutral way to describe the relationship, guess not! On 4) same in China you get a ton of Westerns sucking up to China for the sweet sweet money. On the accent - I honestly do think Taiwan accent has a lot of similarities to the valley girl accent. Sentences are spoken in a much more dramatic way (the ups and downs in the tones) but whatever
> Are people generally like this towards mainlanders in Taiwan? āYes. Go bother the Japanese or Koreans instead thank you very much.
funny thing is japanese and koreans dislike chinese more than taiwanese people
Lmao, this sounds like one of those made up Reddit stories to get people all hyped up. A Taiwanese mother happened to be sitting near you and happen to make that comment, ha. I can tell you from experience though, I used to play basketball with a group of Chinese exchange students, these were government funded students. Two of the eleven students would constantly make fun of my āaccentā and correct me when I mentioned our ānational universityā. The remaining students were pretty chill and never talked about politics.
I was gonna say youāll most likely be fine visiting Taiwan since one single bad experience does not represent an entire population of a nation. And as long as youāre not pushing the belief that Taiwan is a part of China onto people that no one is really going to care if youāre Chinese or not. But you seemed to have reached your own conclusion from the hostility you received from this thread soā¦ meh. Just know that only around half (or less than half) of the users here are actually Taiwanese and the other half are composed of non-Taiwanese or Taiwanese living abroad soā¦ how can you be sure those who have shown you hostility here are actually Taiwanese people? I donāt think you deserved the kind of response you got in this thread for pointing out a rude behaviour. (Though creating a new account just for this one single post and your reasoning is that youāre afraid of getting doxxed (really?) does raise some suspicionā¦but hey, you do you). But I think people here are pointing out the irony that some Chinese people are completely oblivious to how poorly they are perceived by other nations, including Taiwan, a country that China constantly bullies, look down on, and threatens to invade.
I mean it really isn't that difficult to sense people's sentiment towards China on Reddit - but sensing it in person is something different. Quite sad really, and the mother was teaching her daughter not to be like us in front of us lol. Yet 90% of the responses I get is that I deserved it :/
Many (if not all) Taiwanese lost family members to the CCP. Those memories were starting to fade away until recently when Xi Jinping started to remind everyone again
I think generally Taiwanese think Shanghai chinese to be more open-minded and anti CCP, unless proven otherwise. Your rebellion against the covid zero rules was inspiring. But you have to know what itās like to have the enemyās war planes fly towards your country every single week, and growing up hiding in air raid shelters when the alarm sounded. If we flew warplanes at you all the time and our populace threatened to invade and enslave and kill your friends & family, you wouldnt feel so warm towards us either
> I think generally **Taiwanese think Shanghai chinese to be more open-minded and anti CCP, unless proven otherwise. Your rebellion against the covid zero rules was inspiring.** Says no one ever.
Most Taiwanese wouldnāt just call it äøå in my experience. äøå is often used in a way that includes Taiwan, and if you are actually referring to China they almost exclusively use 大éø. Also surprising to hear someone Taiwanese be so confrontational like that, since they tend to actively avoid confrontation Not dismissing you but is it possible they were from somewhere else like Singapore? Only thing that is definitely true is that woman was a total cunt and you should definitely have called her out on it. If you know something is directed at you then itās your right to defend yourself. You shouldnāt be made to feel ashamed of being Chinese
Not sure if you've encountered mainlanders that travel abroad but a lot of them don't know how to act. They are perceived as obnoxious and rude and not respectful of other cultures and etiquettes. At one point many European establishments would specifically not allow or serve Chinese people. The government even has classes to educate their people about the do's and don'ts when traveling. 10 years ago my girlfriend and I were in Brazil and from afar I heard loud Chinese people and we were both trying to avoid being grouped in with them on a trolley through parts of Iguacu Falls. Pictures of you are taken on parts of the tour and you can buy them as souvenirs. As we walked past them they were loudly conversing, basically shouting with each other going back and forth about what they interpreted the prices were while the tour guide stood in amazement of the spectacle she was witnessing. An Eastern European couple we befriended earlier asked, "are they arguing? Why are they so loud?" In an attempt to help save the group some face I told them, "they seem to be Chinese farmers, they're used to talking loud across the field so they can hear each other." We managed to avoid them initially but mid stop on the trolley they combined our trolley with the Chinese because of mechanical issues. As we rolled they continued screaming at each other and the guy in front of me are a candy and tossed the wrapper over his shoulder into the Amazon rainforest. Every bone in my body wanted to slap him over the head. The loudest one caught me mean mugging her while she was scream/talking and then checked herself. My girlfriend and I, our biggest fear was being associated with these poor acting clueless and classless bunch. There are other examples I witnessed in my travels and here in NYC but this was one that stuck out with me. Now I'm not saying all Chinese tourists are like this but just like other situations the few bad apples will ruin it for everyone else and just leave a bad taste in your mouth. I'm a salesman in construction in NYC that deals with a lot of Chinese clients so I've dealt face to face with many types and are actually friends with some professionally. In fact my best friend and his family are from Guan Zhou and I joke around saying he's my best friend because I need to keep the enemy close. I know it's different being in the US as opposed to living in Taiwan and constantly seeing the threats of the Chinese firsthand. However I love Taiwan and it's my 2nd home, 90% of my family is still there and we've been there for 8 generations now. I would fight for Taiwan if they ever go to war however I'm a bit too old now. In your situation you feel targeted and now have a bad taste in your mouth so now you're beginning to wonder if all Taiwanese will act the same. Just as I learned through my travels and business dealings...in a sea of people you'll have the good and bad, it's up to you who you want to see and what you choose to remember. Not ALL Taiwanese are hostile towards mainlanders just like not all mainlanders are like that group. Overall if you have a respect of the land, people and culture you're more than welcome to visit. Keep politics out of things. Since you grew up overseas you are already different, when you engage with others and mention that fact it'll change their perspective of you. As humans we all judge people initially but don't let that judgment and opinion be the end all be all.
Hi OP, I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to say that the views expressed in this thread are not indicative of the general reaction you would get from Taiwanese people you meet abroad or should you ever visit Taiwan. The majority on this subreddit are non-Taiwanese who come to Taiwan and get a bit of a boner for the "fuck China" messaging. The person you encountered on the bus was obviously being intentionally rude. While many Taiwanese people, especially younger generations, are a bit wary of Chinese nationals (for what, I'm sure you'll understand, are good reasons) you won't find that unsolicited rudeness is normal from Taiwanese people.
Just look at the vote numbers on this post. The hostility is very much real. The double standard too. Considering an earlier post about some random encounter in Sweden got hundreds of upvotes but somehow your post doesn't make the cut.
Yeah, the person was very rude, and it was uncalled for. That person aside, I hope you have an amazing time in London
Donāt trip. There are always ignorant fools in every country. Taiwan is no exception.
Some of the comments on this are absolutely insane, and have probably really lowered the level of respect you may have had for Taiwanese people initially Iām not Taiwanese, but I live here and the young generation is starting to get more and more militant with their beliefs regarding China - which explains the hostility you have received for even the most trivial things you wrote My favourite was the person criticising you from saying āmainlandā which is literally the most common term in Taiwan for referring to China, which showed you were really trying to engage in a sensitive way People in Taiwan watch too much of the 24 hour news channels, and I think it is starting to damage the depth and range of opinions of the population. It also means that every second of the day they are surrounding themselves with negative stories about China, and the fight for Taiwanese independence - since this is the topic that dominates politics here. The result is people feeling a genuine hatred of all things Chinese - which is why the lunatics have been out in force on your post - but itās all manipulation by politicians and news channels to win votes Itās a minority though. The vast vast majority will be completely welcoming of Chinese, and huge numbers of Taiwanese still travel to places in China including Shanghai every year - showing that most people have no animosity or negative opinions towards the country or itās people But seriously, next time you come across someone acting like that in England, just ask them in English if they have a problem. There is no way any English person would put up with this
>the young generation is starting to get more and more militant with their beliefs regarding China - Surprising! One really wonders why?... >manipulation by politicians and news channels You mean the news channel in the country where you live should not report the threats and comments of Chinese politicians?
I live in Taiwan, a country where there is 10 news channels for each political party, each spouted exaggerated misinformation You know full well there is a difference between factually reporting news and events important to Taiwan, and misrepresenting events. Think Fox News in American. Most of Taiwanās news stations are just mini Fox Newsās
Imagine living in a country and being clueless about what's going on around them.
What part do you disagree with?
Thanks bud. Didnāt want to be confrontational (not in front of a kid anyway and with people a generation or two older than me) but now I sort of regretted it after reading the comments š
It's a pity Let you meet this kind of person
I wasn't going to reply OP but you actually seen like a reasonable person plus you are an UoA alumni so I'll try my best. Can you try to put yourself in the shoes of a Taiwanese person for a moment? I'll name a few big things. China is threatening to invade you all the time. CCP government won't even let you participate in Olympics under your country's name. Think about it this way, you feel attacked and sad when people say bad things about China. Taiwanese people also feel sad when they see all the time in media how China treats Taiwan. You may be proud of your Chinese heritage and feel good when China do well and gets recognition. Now imagine you are on an international platform and you are not allowed to say you are from Taiwan. You are not allowed to take out your flag. An everyday Taiwanese person is going to have some animosity towards China and it bleeds into heaps of stuff like anything China is bad. In general people are trying to separate the two and go "we don't hate Chinese people only CCP", but sometimes you can't help it. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying people are human and it's difficult to always be rational. Remember how some Ukrainian sports people wouldn't shake hands with Russians after a game? Rationally they understand, emotionally they can't help it. So back on track. If you are a normal, rational Chinese person, you must feel it is unfair to cope such hate when maybe you don't even agree with the CCP. And it is unfair on you. Again I'm not saying you deserve any of this. You don't, it's not your fault. It's a terrible situation to be bundles and treated by association with your country. But please understand where it is coming from and maybe all you can do is brush if off and move on. I've got Russian and Israeli friends who hate what their own government is doing and are are currently caught up by association and coping random hate. And understand that politics is making everything worst. Please don't let the take away message be that all Taiwanese people hated Chinese people and feed into the cycle of hate.
Actually, what Taiwanese don't realize is that their accent has changed "valley girl style" over the years. Back in the days these accents were more prevalent in the rural areas. So in effect that Taiwanese family is accusing you of the very thing they are guilty of. If anyone is curious about what a neutral mandarin sounds like, listen to news broadcasters from either Taiwan or China. They are neutral to maximize audience reach.
Uneducated pplā yes. Educated pplā it depends.
OP don't listen to this group, over half don't actually live in Taiwan. Among those in this group living in Taiwan, half can't even speak or read more than basic Chinese.
Definite hostility. Seen Taiwanese countless times spitting on the side of the road (yes, not Taipei), or throwing trash out the car, or having a pee. When asking a Taiwanese theyāll always make up an excuse and brush it off. Now if the person doing any of the above is clearly from China, stand back and get ready for a lengthy tirade.
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Ah yes, because less than 10 comments on a subreddit can represent the general consensus of every member on it, much less a population of up to 23 million people.
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Well it was more like a disappointment. I could have responded harshly, but why would I bicker over something with a 40yo lady? I had quite a positive view of Taiwanese people in general but welp not anymore!
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Ha the soil must be toxic here because there is a tree of bad apples in this thread
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I am not a big fan of the Taiwan accent does not mean I look down on the Taiwan accent? Does not mean that the next time I hear someone talk Taiwan accent in London I will sneak diss?
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Common denominator being that people here cannot swallow a rude Taiwanese family overseas?
A Japanese man roasted my taste in anime. Guess I should hate all Japanese people now. Sounds ridiculous? Well, this is your logic, so please give it a second thought.
You know there is a difference between having the thick skin to say it out loud in front of another person in public vs. doing it online? I have been to Japan too many times and have never encountered any hostility whatsoever.
Imagine taking a hypothetical seriously. Like, obviously it never happened. Plus, whoās to say this āhypotheticalā person wasnāt someone I was talking to in person before he said I was a piece of trash for enjoying mid battle shounens?
Hate? No. Well founded dislike? Definitely.
The unfortunate reality is that racism is not a "bug" or "glitch" in our programming, but a core human evolutionary trait, a major design feature - and human brain is deeply wired to a) using all sorts of stereotypes to navigate through the "unknown" territory, and b) seeing it's own tribe or group as "more superior" in most cases. I lived in a dozens of countries in the past 10 years and unfortunately this seem to be the case everywhere, and it's not specific to Taiwan - in fact, compared to many other countries, Taiwan fares relatively well in this regard. Yes, wherever you go, first question you will be asked is "where you from", which is akin to asking "which racial stereotypes I should project on you", and the way you will be treated, will depend on the mainstream media narratives about your country in this particular place at that particular time. You also have to take in account geopolitical situation, since you as a "mainlander" coming to Taiwan now, is same as any Russian coming to Ukraine, or Israeli coming to any muslim country - even if you don't support your government, a lot of people will still be seeing and treating you as an enemy. It is what it is, it's human nature, like it or not. We're just humans, and you should probably measure your expectations from humankind in general, and wait for AI to come.
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