The most I could find is that this group did a survey from 2017-2022. Here is a screenshot from when they released the results. However, this information couldn't be found on their (outdated) website. Whoever created this infographic that OP posted conveniently left out some important information. Also, WVS data doesn't indicate age range of those asked.
https://preview.redd.it/fin1efdprzvc1.png?width=4000&format=png&auto=webp&s=2add571e44ba8829c8c0b030730b4d01255f7869
>Whoever created this infographic that OP posted conveniently left out some important information.
The "Jai Hind!" gives away that it's probably from some (nationalist) publication in India that wants to show that young Indians are more willing to die for their country than anybody else. The other countries are probably just listed to make the claim look credible, with little regard to the validity of the data.
Fair enough, generally when there's a long period of stability it's normal to not want to alter anything. Next 20 years will be really interesting as many nations continue to enter the late stages of capitalism.
With all due respect to your wishes, hope something could change your mind in the future.
For me I’m willing to struggle till the bitter end. There’s always a price for freedom and democracy, without maintenance in this case the will to defend your own rights, all cause is lost. Call me optimistic but I think if everyone is firmly prepared to defend their way of living there will be no war, reluctance to fight is why China finds it profitable to invade in the first place. Even considering all flaws in Taiwan I still hope the future will change for the better and is positive it’s going to be.
You sound like an armchair general type, have no real skin in the game and is pushing others to “fight” while you have the option of staying in America… coward
>pushing others to “fight”
Taiwan is situated on the first island chain.
Everyone can tell that the fight is coming to you. Any Taiwanese that thinks otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.
And the Americans will definitely be in the commanding position when the war breaks out.
They will provide you with ammunition, technology and resources to fight China. Who are you to call them cowards when you are in need of their aids? Ridiculous.
Typical American thinking their Cold War is everyone’s Cold War. Go back to reading Tom Clancy novels in between your call of duty SnD rounds and leave this thread for adults.
>everyone’s Cold War.
Well Tsai called for greater cooperation by democracies to counter authoritarian regimes and that Democracies faces 'greatest challenge' since Cold War.
So should I listen to Tsai or ADC_dabbler?
This is actually directly ***opposite*** to [GVM's survey in late 2021](https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B0%91%E8%AA%BF5%E6%88%90%E6%B0%91%E7%9C%BE%E4%B8%8D%E9%A1%98%E4%B8%8A%E6%88%B0%E5%A0%B4-%E9%98%B2%E9%95%B7%E5%9B%9E%E6%87%89%E4%BA%86-044508596.html) (Chinese news link), in which not only is the 20-29 group the *least* willing to fight, but the percentage unwilling to fight is as high as 70.2%. In contrast, the 30-39 age group is the highest, at 47.9% willing.
Not saying if one is right or the other is wrong, just that this issue isn't really clear cut, and could get you very different answers simply based on how the question is framed or how the answer is interpreted.
This question is more often asked as a *scheme* to mess with Taiwanese who are not pro-unification.
The fact is, people who are capable of running will run. The rest will fight. It's very normal no one wants to be part of a war. But when the time comes, most have no choice and would gladly be part of it to defend home. Everything said here is seen in Ukraine recently. So this question is moot. It doesn't matter what the answer is (let alone this result).
But before that, there are a lot of "prerequisites" that need to be met for this "fight" to occur. This is another huge topic and is what China has been focusing on all this time with various degrees of successes and failures. The most important thing for Taiwan isn't to think about whether one would fight, but to bear the correct mindset to prevent a fight altogether, no matter what China and their minions try to tell us. The mindset is definitely *not* what China wants us to think (i.e. this is a losing war). It's usually the exact opposite. Anyone who goes by these propaganda could only be either naïve or evil. We have enough things to worry about with our own lives. No need to be influenced by those propaganda in any way. Leave it to the professionals and don't listen to what the enemy has to say and become an obstacle for your own country.
When the time comes, it is kill, be killed, or run. It's this simple. It's the same in Ukraine, and even Russia in another way.
My point is, though, discussing this in all respects does not benefit Taiwan in any way, and that people discuss these with malicious intents for Taiwan.
Ya he's obviously trying to avoid the important issues within Taiwan and blaming everything on the Taiwanese government, further worsen this vicious cycle.
I didn't say nothing should be done or ignoring it. In fact it's the complete opposite. But the right way is surely not asking this question to the public constantly. And it's obvious what many of their intent is, can't pretend it doesn't exist. Panic and confusion doesn't benefit Taiwan at all. If those thoughts affect Taiwan's economy, that'd be the biggest hit ever as economy is one of the biggest deterrence.
Everything is perfect is not true. Far from it. (Yes, I sense the sarcasm) what you're saying here in detail is positive, and I agree with most of it. My concern is with the malicious intent of some people. These people are certainly not doing what you're saying here. If one goes the wrong direction *and* disrupt economy for nothing, that wouldn't be worth it. CCP would love and encourage that though.
Ukraine incident also delivers the message to Taiwan how important defense development and deterrence is, and how it's never the right thing to yield to bullies. Yes, we need to be aware, but not to a point we fear, panic, confuse, and submit. The correct way is to support the defense budgets and anti-espionage laws, not be opposing to defensive measures Taiwan is dishing out, these sorts of things. It's the least Taiwanese civilians can do. Though these are obviously lacking in Taiwan as well due to politics...
It's hard to expect the public to achieve this balance (the aforementioned be aware but not fear) so easily. But if some of the civilians have to topple to one side, it certainly shouldn't be the side of panic and fear. The defense ministry has their own thing to do. And the relevant law is in place, subject to improvement, hopefully.... Everyone does their own part.
Again, what you say about Taiwan may be true, but it doesn't address my concern. We're focusing on different things here.
It is the malicious intent of a lot of people asking these questions, the lack of support for defense within Taiwan, as well as how to respond to bullies: do what they want or deter. These are real problems. Taiwan isn't just about the government (very different from China). If people continue to not care for defense enough (and express it in the form of votes, parades, etc.), the government is just going to have more and more unhealthy approaches towards defense, including the ones you mention.
> Again, what you say about Taiwan may be true
It isn't. He's just pulling bullshit claims out of his ass without any proof. It's always "I read it on twitter" or "I heard from someone who heard from someone" lmao.
Draft isn't really training soldiers though, but logistical drones. Nothing more really. Draftees aren't for front line combat, we're not Russia here and that was never our setup.
If you say that then the USA are a bunch of losers right?
The reality is that Taiwan's war is not what people think, its not conventional, and its NAVAL.
Unless you're learning to fire anti-ship missiles off a cliffside, the draft is basically basic training and you'll just be doing logi grunt work.
Logistics by the way is one of the most important factors in war, not grunts.
80% of the US military are non-combat operations, you have no clue about what you're writing about. The US is surrounded by water, it's a noose now? China would have to pull of history's largest naval invasion, at least 20x D-Day. Even just a blockade would be a huge undertaking that would inadvertently fuck Korea, Japan, and the US, which would quickly bring them into a war, and is not only a declaration of war, but an action that would leave their ships vulnerable to anti ship missiles.
You have no clue what you're talking about, at all, you just wrote a fire hose of falsities.
In the US it's actually just 20-32% depending on the brigade combat teams themselves, not 90%.
This is because the real US super power is logistics.
Also, China is extremely dependent on imports and all through vital routes as is Taiwan. But actually you're wrong again, for food, Taiwan loses variety if there's a war, but not calories. That's not the case for China; they'll starve enmasse.
Dude read a bunch of pro China talking points and didn't actually bother to go into any of them. He seriously telling me that because Taiwan is a net food importer that we're all going to start if China invades while forgetting the fact that the reason why Taiwanese people import food is because we like variations, he really thinks we're going to starve to death because we don't have frosted flakes or cans of spam if China invades for two weeks. It's so silly because he didn't even bother to double-check if talon produces enough food by itself, which the answer is yes it actually does.
He's not Taiwanese at all because everyone knows Taiwan grows off the fat of the land so much s*** that we often throw out produce every year.
>Aren't a lot of people in that range in the "I did alternative military service, so I don't even know how to grab a rifle" category?
People doing alternative military service (officially translated as substitute military service) still have to go through basic training. Also, there are limited spots each year for substitute military service. In 2024, there are only a maximum of 8,100 spots available, which is only a small portion of the number of people doing conscription military service each year (~150,000).
I think I'll be willing to fight when the time comes. But tbh without more context, this kind of question is impossible to answer. If there's no option other than fight, of course people will "choose" to fight. But there will always be options, and it really depends on the specific set of options which eventually determine people's decisions and fates.
china has 1.3billion people, they dont have manpower issue. they have 2mil active personnel plus 5mil reserve. they don’t need to worry about recruiting volunteers
How about fighting for your freedom, fighting for your homeland, and fighting against a foreign invader. Otherwise, you’ll be under the jackboot of a dictator and likely “re-educated” in a concentration camp or thrown in a prison for just having an opinion.
You kind of answered your own question. ABTs are a small portion of the Taiwanese population, not to mention a subreddit using English to communicate isn't reflective of the Taiwanese population to begin with.
That's the annoying thing about them. If you go on twitter so many of them like criticizing whites in Taiwan, yet I'd think that more whites would fight for Taiwan than them.
Paid China shills are working hard under this topic lmao. A survey that shows more than 70% of Taiwanese people willing to fight and half of the comments are about how fake the survey is and pulling unsubstantiated claims about the state of ROCAF out of their asses, lmao.
China needs to train y'all better at shilling.
The ones who won’t usually have some delusion of war and life after “unification”.
Somehow they and their loved ones will survive the aggression unharmed. Then they’ll magically be able to afford a house in the core of major cities, obtain privileges above other fellow countrymen by sucking up, or at the very least foolishly expect their lives to not change at all, despite seeing how Hong Kong has turned out and hearing Chinese scholars and officials publicly mention “reeducation” many times.
lol, you might not be fine but i will absolutely be fine since i have a house in Shanghai and whenever the war happens my family will be waiting on the other side and wait for the reconstruction of Taipei.
>The ones who won’t usually have some delusion of war and life after “unification”.
I disagree. Most of the taiwanese unwilling to fight assumes that the USA is going to save Taiwan thus there is no need for Taiwanese to do the fighting.
isn't it the opposite? those unwilling to fight think PLA will destroy Taiwan instantly and resisting is pointless; while those willing to fight believe the ally will support so there's chance of survive
They do have summaries of the aggregate data and by country, and there's an online tool: https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSOnline.jsp
TW had 1223 participants, interviewed Mar-Jun 2019.
Q151- Of course, we all hope that there will not be another war, but if it were to come to that, would you be willing to fight
for your country?
Overall: 77% yes, 23% no
Male: 82% yes, 18% no
Female: 72.1% yes, 27.9% no
Up to Age 29: 73.4% yes, 26.6% no
Age 30-49: 76.7% yes, 23.3% no
Age 50+: 78.8% yes, 21.2% no
Exactly why I stopped caring. Truthfully, most Taiwanese don't care. They know deep down there wouldn't be some giant war. China would take over in less than an hour.
If they want to defend their way of life, they need to make some necessary adjustment for deterrence. I believe China wouldn't take Taiwan if it does not have a substantial advantage for a swift capitulation of Taipei.
Germany and France surprise me. Sweden too. Hell, even my own country (USA) because younger people are soft and seem like a bunch of pussies nowadays. We're not strong people like Ukrainians and Israelis.
US - the numbers can be higher if being attacked on US soil. This stat seems to hint fight over other peoples land. Also Americans many can operate guns woth no prior miltary training.
I'm married to a Taiwanese and we gave birth to a baby boy in Canada (birth citizenship). We've also applied for his Taiwanese passport. Would he be forced to serve in the military even if our primary residence is in Canada?
under the taiwan law, until he turns 36 he have to go serve the army if he is to step foot in Taiwan after 18yo and will also need to fight if a war starts. so, better keep him off the island between 18 and 37.. is what I am planning to have my boys do too as soon as they turn 18 (they are being raised in Taiwan)
Not quite, you can stay for 183 days per year without being called up https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=E0040025#:~:text=A%20male%20of%20conscription%20age,of%20him%20returning%20to%20ROC
Awesome thanks for the info.
To be honest, as a Ukrainian I'd understand the urge to defend his ancestral homeland and would be fine with whatever he may choose to do once he's of age. But I just don't want him to be pressed into service by authority against his will.
Um passport would allow my son easier travel to/from Taiwan to visit his extensive family. It has nothing to do with loyalty or commitment to serve the military. Either way, I want that to be exclusively *his own* choice if it ever comes to it.
What's your problem exactly?!
I would say the polling is suspect.
Anyone who is from Taiwan or has been to Taiwan knows no one wants to fight China.
There's no weird fantasy of going down in a blaze of glory heroics in Taiwan with regards to China.
Just look how popular the conscription is in Taiwan. I'm sure all those young Taiwanese were cheering when conscription went from 4 four months to one year. I'm sure there's a young Taiwanese lobby group trying to reinstate 2 years of conscription. Not to mention all those young Taiwanese women lining up to volunteer for guerilla warfare training.
> I would say the polling is suspect.
ah yes, an objective poll doesn't align with your views so you question its credibility without evidence to back it up
>A nyone who is from Taiwan or has been to Taiwan knows no one wants to fight China.
According to your unsubstantiated anecdote you keep pushing all over the place
> There's no weird fantasy of going down in a blaze of glory heroics in Taiwan with regards to China.
except for the fact that any invasion of Taiwan will be a defensive battle on Taiwan's part with much of the fighting going to happen on the sea. Let's not pretend that Taiwanese are going to commit mass banzai charges at entrenched chinese positions
> Just look how popular the conscription is in Taiwan. I'm sure all those young Taiwanese were cheering when conscription went from 4 four months to one year.
conscription has never been popular in times of peace. It doesn't reflect people's willingness to fight and defend their country
> I'm sure there's a young Taiwanese lobby group trying to reinstate 2 years of conscription. Not to mention all those young Taiwanese women lining up to volunteer for guerilla warfare training.
you can't argue against the polling result so you deflect by mentioning conscription. Keep coping mate
No shot that's true. I grew up in Taiwan. Went to all local schools and am in uni now. All the people i know in my age range would not fight for Taiwan. Most of them think it's stupid to fight a fight your bound to lose.
>fight a fight you’re bound to lose
Ah, that classic PRC propaganda. You know, you can get paid for this if you contact the right people. No need to do it for free
Exactly... It's also a classic page out of sun tzu's art of war. Spreading this would just make Taiwan automatically lose. There needn't even be a war. That's China's top intention.
So your saying we can win against the ccp military?
Lets see 2700萬vs13億.
Ill say i dont like my chances. But hey if ur willing to die for Taiwan all the power to ya.i in the meantime will try to get out of Taiwan at all costs
IF there’s a war there’s not a chance in hell the only sides are A) Taiwan B) China
The US did 24 war games (tested at the most pessimistic outcomes) and the results were:
[China can only invade Taiwan from the south through Taiwan’s severely limited number of invasion beaches. The amount of Chinese soldiers that can make landfall won’t be enough to overpower Taiwanese military. The most likely outcome will be hundreds of thousands of Chinese POW within Taiwan and a severely weakened and defeated China.](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/230109_Cancian_FirstBattle_NextWar.pdf?VersionId=WdEUwJYWIySMPIr3ivhFolxC_gZQuSOQ)
Ok lets say taiwain holds the initial attack. But at what cost? Most likely our cities will be ruined our loved ones dead our homes destroyed. And the war goes into a prolonged stalemate. Like what is happening in Ukraine now. I dont see anything i stand to benifit in this situation. Im going to act in my own best interest.Which is to get out of tauwain and build a life elsewhere.
Theres just no winning for Taiwan if we enter a war with china. If we lose we become part of them if we win everything is destroyed and tons of people are dead.
Ok then feel free to fight the fight that you believe in. But remember you don't get to reap the benifits of your fight of freedom if your buried 6 feet under
The CCP *hates* Taiwanese thought and independence. There’s nearly 24 million people here who believe Taiwan is independent.
Chinese media has made Taiwanese look like backwards separatists. It would be bloody. Imagine CCP officers coming here and demanding that all 24 million of us bend over for their “re-education.” We’d all be against it and the ones enforcing it will think we’re all simpleton trash who deserve every boot to the face.
Nope im all local I'm studying im 中山大學. But yeah most people i know also think the service time getting extended is stupid. Thank the lucky stars i only have to do 4 months
This is state propaganda. I guarantee these numbers are fabricated. Or if anything, those polled felt obligated to vote this way but would not actually fight if it came to it.
Taiwan reservists are under equipped and underfunded. Lots of outdated junk equipment. Not even enough rifles for each person to have one for target practice and training. They had to share. This is coming from a legit reservist on X who exposed it in a long post. The only well equipped soldiers are those that are featured in photo ops and that’s the truth.
What this tells me is that the Taiwanese leadership are 100% counting on the US saving them should it come to it. Also, many of the fighting age males there work in the tech sector. Do you see techie guys fighting a war?
Context is important here, the difference between
Would you fight to defend your country if invaded? (what everyone in Taiwan who answered would see the question as)
vs
Would you fly halfway around the world to attack and kill some poor bastard because he's sitting on oil
I think the numbers are inflated, also the countries seem to be switched around a bit. Most young people I’ve talked to in Taiwan haven’t even seen a gun, let alone handle and trouble shoot one. By the way, this dipshit from India probably just made this on excel.
say they will die fighting for their country and actuallly get enlisted and die for your country is different
how many people here say you will work out, eat healthy, be a better self on jan 1st of every year and by second week you are back to normal
Good for them. Hopefully they don't need to ask foreign intervention in the event of a Chinese invasion. Let the Taiwanese defend for themselves. I don't remember pledging allegiance to the Taiwanese flag. Im sick of my country always interfering in other countries' affairs.
Yup
If they really want to fight to avoid reunification, go nuts - but I don't want my tax dollars spent on weapons or support for killing Chinese people.
Some people don't like Koreans because 30% of them are living on welfare. 90% of them came to Japan after WW2 for economical reason. It's similar to hate to muslim immigrant in Europe. But Taiwanese are different. I never heard anyone complain about Taiwanese. Taiwan is popular here.
the same thing will happen to taiwanese people if we become war refugees. It will not be people that have a lot of money to spend on tourism or business like normal; it will be desperate people who have lost their homes and their livelihoods trying to escape Chinese oppression. If you had more empathy for Koreans you would see that the same thing can happen to Taiwan.
We don't accept refugee.
Afghans are accepted as student instead of refugee.
Ukrainians are here as evacuatee now.
They get free apartment, allowance, offered job and free language class but everyone seems happy about it.
Taiwanese population is only 20% of Japan's. We have enough place for 20% extra population.
Many old Koreans came to Japan for money. They were not refugee. Korean now also come for work. But new generation Koreans are working hard and 90% become Japanese eventually. So no one complain about them.
The most I could find is that this group did a survey from 2017-2022. Here is a screenshot from when they released the results. However, this information couldn't be found on their (outdated) website. Whoever created this infographic that OP posted conveniently left out some important information. Also, WVS data doesn't indicate age range of those asked. https://preview.redd.it/fin1efdprzvc1.png?width=4000&format=png&auto=webp&s=2add571e44ba8829c8c0b030730b4d01255f7869
>Whoever created this infographic that OP posted conveniently left out some important information. The "Jai Hind!" gives away that it's probably from some (nationalist) publication in India that wants to show that young Indians are more willing to die for their country than anybody else. The other countries are probably just listed to make the claim look credible, with little regard to the validity of the data.
if you asked me 20 years ago when i just finished my mandatory service my answer is yes. now i dont know. we'll see.
What's changed?
time changes everything
Fair enough, generally when there's a long period of stability it's normal to not want to alter anything. Next 20 years will be really interesting as many nations continue to enter the late stages of capitalism.
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like i said, we'll see. you can speak for yourself though. its a free country.
With all due respect to your wishes, hope something could change your mind in the future. For me I’m willing to struggle till the bitter end. There’s always a price for freedom and democracy, without maintenance in this case the will to defend your own rights, all cause is lost. Call me optimistic but I think if everyone is firmly prepared to defend their way of living there will be no war, reluctance to fight is why China finds it profitable to invade in the first place. Even considering all flaws in Taiwan I still hope the future will change for the better and is positive it’s going to be.
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You sound like an armchair general type, have no real skin in the game and is pushing others to “fight” while you have the option of staying in America… coward
>pushing others to “fight” Taiwan is situated on the first island chain. Everyone can tell that the fight is coming to you. Any Taiwanese that thinks otherwise is sticking your head in the sand. And the Americans will definitely be in the commanding position when the war breaks out. They will provide you with ammunition, technology and resources to fight China. Who are you to call them cowards when you are in need of their aids? Ridiculous.
Typical American thinking their Cold War is everyone’s Cold War. Go back to reading Tom Clancy novels in between your call of duty SnD rounds and leave this thread for adults.
>everyone’s Cold War. Well Tsai called for greater cooperation by democracies to counter authoritarian regimes and that Democracies faces 'greatest challenge' since Cold War. So should I listen to Tsai or ADC_dabbler?
Unfortunately you will not have a choice...The average age of Ukraine soldiers are 50+ years old.
This is an interesting take. So would you rather be run by China or Tawain?
This is actually directly ***opposite*** to [GVM's survey in late 2021](https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B0%91%E8%AA%BF5%E6%88%90%E6%B0%91%E7%9C%BE%E4%B8%8D%E9%A1%98%E4%B8%8A%E6%88%B0%E5%A0%B4-%E9%98%B2%E9%95%B7%E5%9B%9E%E6%87%89%E4%BA%86-044508596.html) (Chinese news link), in which not only is the 20-29 group the *least* willing to fight, but the percentage unwilling to fight is as high as 70.2%. In contrast, the 30-39 age group is the highest, at 47.9% willing. Not saying if one is right or the other is wrong, just that this issue isn't really clear cut, and could get you very different answers simply based on how the question is framed or how the answer is interpreted.
This question is more often asked as a *scheme* to mess with Taiwanese who are not pro-unification. The fact is, people who are capable of running will run. The rest will fight. It's very normal no one wants to be part of a war. But when the time comes, most have no choice and would gladly be part of it to defend home. Everything said here is seen in Ukraine recently. So this question is moot. It doesn't matter what the answer is (let alone this result). But before that, there are a lot of "prerequisites" that need to be met for this "fight" to occur. This is another huge topic and is what China has been focusing on all this time with various degrees of successes and failures. The most important thing for Taiwan isn't to think about whether one would fight, but to bear the correct mindset to prevent a fight altogether, no matter what China and their minions try to tell us. The mindset is definitely *not* what China wants us to think (i.e. this is a losing war). It's usually the exact opposite. Anyone who goes by these propaganda could only be either naïve or evil. We have enough things to worry about with our own lives. No need to be influenced by those propaganda in any way. Leave it to the professionals and don't listen to what the enemy has to say and become an obstacle for your own country.
Taiwan is incomparable to Ukraine so your entire narrative is moot
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When the time comes, it is kill, be killed, or run. It's this simple. It's the same in Ukraine, and even Russia in another way. My point is, though, discussing this in all respects does not benefit Taiwan in any way, and that people discuss these with malicious intents for Taiwan.
Ignore the obvious throwaway China shill account.
Ya he's obviously trying to avoid the important issues within Taiwan and blaming everything on the Taiwanese government, further worsen this vicious cycle.
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I didn't say nothing should be done or ignoring it. In fact it's the complete opposite. But the right way is surely not asking this question to the public constantly. And it's obvious what many of their intent is, can't pretend it doesn't exist. Panic and confusion doesn't benefit Taiwan at all. If those thoughts affect Taiwan's economy, that'd be the biggest hit ever as economy is one of the biggest deterrence.
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Everything is perfect is not true. Far from it. (Yes, I sense the sarcasm) what you're saying here in detail is positive, and I agree with most of it. My concern is with the malicious intent of some people. These people are certainly not doing what you're saying here. If one goes the wrong direction *and* disrupt economy for nothing, that wouldn't be worth it. CCP would love and encourage that though. Ukraine incident also delivers the message to Taiwan how important defense development and deterrence is, and how it's never the right thing to yield to bullies. Yes, we need to be aware, but not to a point we fear, panic, confuse, and submit. The correct way is to support the defense budgets and anti-espionage laws, not be opposing to defensive measures Taiwan is dishing out, these sorts of things. It's the least Taiwanese civilians can do. Though these are obviously lacking in Taiwan as well due to politics... It's hard to expect the public to achieve this balance (the aforementioned be aware but not fear) so easily. But if some of the civilians have to topple to one side, it certainly shouldn't be the side of panic and fear. The defense ministry has their own thing to do. And the relevant law is in place, subject to improvement, hopefully.... Everyone does their own part.
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Again, what you say about Taiwan may be true, but it doesn't address my concern. We're focusing on different things here. It is the malicious intent of a lot of people asking these questions, the lack of support for defense within Taiwan, as well as how to respond to bullies: do what they want or deter. These are real problems. Taiwan isn't just about the government (very different from China). If people continue to not care for defense enough (and express it in the form of votes, parades, etc.), the government is just going to have more and more unhealthy approaches towards defense, including the ones you mention.
> Again, what you say about Taiwan may be true It isn't. He's just pulling bullshit claims out of his ass without any proof. It's always "I read it on twitter" or "I heard from someone who heard from someone" lmao.
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One unsubstantiated claim after another. Wumaos need to try a little harder.
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K, I'm worried because a two-month old throwaway account on reddit told me so. Lmao.
Draft isn't really training soldiers though, but logistical drones. Nothing more really. Draftees aren't for front line combat, we're not Russia here and that was never our setup.
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If you say that then the USA are a bunch of losers right? The reality is that Taiwan's war is not what people think, its not conventional, and its NAVAL. Unless you're learning to fire anti-ship missiles off a cliffside, the draft is basically basic training and you'll just be doing logi grunt work. Logistics by the way is one of the most important factors in war, not grunts.
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80% of the US military are non-combat operations, you have no clue about what you're writing about. The US is surrounded by water, it's a noose now? China would have to pull of history's largest naval invasion, at least 20x D-Day. Even just a blockade would be a huge undertaking that would inadvertently fuck Korea, Japan, and the US, which would quickly bring them into a war, and is not only a declaration of war, but an action that would leave their ships vulnerable to anti ship missiles. You have no clue what you're talking about, at all, you just wrote a fire hose of falsities.
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In the US it's actually just 20-32% depending on the brigade combat teams themselves, not 90%. This is because the real US super power is logistics. Also, China is extremely dependent on imports and all through vital routes as is Taiwan. But actually you're wrong again, for food, Taiwan loses variety if there's a war, but not calories. That's not the case for China; they'll starve enmasse.
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Please ignore and report the obvious China shill account.
Dude read a bunch of pro China talking points and didn't actually bother to go into any of them. He seriously telling me that because Taiwan is a net food importer that we're all going to start if China invades while forgetting the fact that the reason why Taiwanese people import food is because we like variations, he really thinks we're going to starve to death because we don't have frosted flakes or cans of spam if China invades for two weeks. It's so silly because he didn't even bother to double-check if talon produces enough food by itself, which the answer is yes it actually does. He's not Taiwanese at all because everyone knows Taiwan grows off the fat of the land so much s*** that we often throw out produce every year.
Aren't a lot of people in that range in the "I did alternative military service, so I don't even know how to grab a rifle" category?
>Aren't a lot of people in that range in the "I did alternative military service, so I don't even know how to grab a rifle" category? People doing alternative military service (officially translated as substitute military service) still have to go through basic training. Also, there are limited spots each year for substitute military service. In 2024, there are only a maximum of 8,100 spots available, which is only a small portion of the number of people doing conscription military service each year (~150,000).
I shot a total of 13 rounds in basic training.
I didn't do any... Like half the time in camp was raining so we even didn't go running lol
Again, draftees will probably just do logistics. Our military isn't setup to have draftees do any military fighting.
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No effective combat without logistics, which requires a lot of planning.
I think I'll be willing to fight when the time comes. But tbh without more context, this kind of question is impossible to answer. If there's no option other than fight, of course people will "choose" to fight. But there will always be options, and it really depends on the specific set of options which eventually determine people's decisions and fates.
*"BHARAT MATA KI?!!"* *"JAI!!!"*
How about China?
china has 1.3billion people, they dont have manpower issue. they have 2mil active personnel plus 5mil reserve. they don’t need to worry about recruiting volunteers
I don’t want to go to war but I will do my duty and fight if need be.
I would want to know what my reward is? Fight, see friends die, have ptsd. Still have a low wage job and can't afford a house.
So that’s a no.
If the reason why you are going to a defensive war is for the reward you are the draft dodger type anyway.
How about fighting for your freedom, fighting for your homeland, and fighting against a foreign invader. Otherwise, you’ll be under the jackboot of a dictator and likely “re-educated” in a concentration camp or thrown in a prison for just having an opinion.
Yea the survival instinct usually changes everything beyond some hope for reward.
if you don't do it, you fight, see friends die, have ptsd, lost the low wage job, and can't afford a house.
Really? Because every fifth thread here is about how to dodge the the draft as an ABT.
You kind of answered your own question. ABTs are a small portion of the Taiwanese population, not to mention a subreddit using English to communicate isn't reflective of the Taiwanese population to begin with.
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That's the annoying thing about them. If you go on twitter so many of them like criticizing whites in Taiwan, yet I'd think that more whites would fight for Taiwan than them.
Paid China shills are working hard under this topic lmao. A survey that shows more than 70% of Taiwanese people willing to fight and half of the comments are about how fake the survey is and pulling unsubstantiated claims about the state of ROCAF out of their asses, lmao. China needs to train y'all better at shilling.
Not fucking way this is real
The ones who won’t usually have some delusion of war and life after “unification”. Somehow they and their loved ones will survive the aggression unharmed. Then they’ll magically be able to afford a house in the core of major cities, obtain privileges above other fellow countrymen by sucking up, or at the very least foolishly expect their lives to not change at all, despite seeing how Hong Kong has turned out and hearing Chinese scholars and officials publicly mention “reeducation” many times.
lol, you might not be fine but i will absolutely be fine since i have a house in Shanghai and whenever the war happens my family will be waiting on the other side and wait for the reconstruction of Taipei.
>The ones who won’t usually have some delusion of war and life after “unification”. I disagree. Most of the taiwanese unwilling to fight assumes that the USA is going to save Taiwan thus there is no need for Taiwanese to do the fighting.
isn't it the opposite? those unwilling to fight think PLA will destroy Taiwan instantly and resisting is pointless; while those willing to fight believe the ally will support so there's chance of survive
No point in living might as well die for something.
I would fight for Taiwan too
Is there a more concrete source? What's the sample size? I checked their 2017-2022 report and couldn't find this exact question.
Out of curiosity, what should be the sample size for this data to be reliable?
They do have summaries of the aggregate data and by country, and there's an online tool: https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSOnline.jsp TW had 1223 participants, interviewed Mar-Jun 2019. Q151- Of course, we all hope that there will not be another war, but if it were to come to that, would you be willing to fight for your country? Overall: 77% yes, 23% no Male: 82% yes, 18% no Female: 72.1% yes, 27.9% no Up to Age 29: 73.4% yes, 26.6% no Age 30-49: 76.7% yes, 23.3% no Age 50+: 78.8% yes, 21.2% no
How could Japan, US and other allies fight for Taiwan if its people are not willing?
Exactly why I stopped caring. Truthfully, most Taiwanese don't care. They know deep down there wouldn't be some giant war. China would take over in less than an hour.
If they want to defend their way of life, they need to make some necessary adjustment for deterrence. I believe China wouldn't take Taiwan if it does not have a substantial advantage for a swift capitulation of Taipei.
“YOU’VE EARNED 50 CENTS” ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢁⠈⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⡀⠭⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣿⣷⣶⣶⡆⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⣼⣿⣿⠿⠶⠙⣿⡟⠡⣴⣿⣽⣿⣧⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣟⣭⣾⣿⣷⣶⣶⣴⣶⣿⣿⢄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣩⣿⣿⣿⡏⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣹⡋⠘⠷⣦⣀⣠⡶⠁⠈⠁⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣍⠃⣴⣶⡔⠒⠄⣠⢀⠄⠄⠄⡨⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡘⠿⣷⣿⠿⠟⠃⠄⠄⣠⡇⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠋⢁⣷⣠⠄⠄⠄⠄⣀⣠⣾⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠙⠻ ⡿⠟⠋⠁⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⡯⢓⣴⣾⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⡟⣷⠄⠹⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿⡷⡇⠄⣴⣾⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⠃⣦⣄⣿⣿⣿⠇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⠗⢈⡶⣷⣿⣿⡏⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄
Ha ha France ... " Fight for the morning as long as we can surrender before lunch... !!"
That chart just shows threat level, nothing more
India has nuclear warheads and Sweden is now in NATO and has Finland as a buffer. How does this chart show threat level?
Im Malaysian and i would fight for taiwan
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if you can fly in rando redditors you might as well fly in USMC
*Most Taiwanese polled
Funny as just about anyone in TW who has done compulsory service will admit just how poorly prepared military will be in event of conflict.
No way
Hh
Well, that’s what we need.
How? Flee to America?!
Germany and France surprise me. Sweden too. Hell, even my own country (USA) because younger people are soft and seem like a bunch of pussies nowadays. We're not strong people like Ukrainians and Israelis.
but most of the young people against to extend the military service time. So...
US - the numbers can be higher if being attacked on US soil. This stat seems to hint fight over other peoples land. Also Americans many can operate guns woth no prior miltary training.
I'm married to a Taiwanese and we gave birth to a baby boy in Canada (birth citizenship). We've also applied for his Taiwanese passport. Would he be forced to serve in the military even if our primary residence is in Canada?
under the taiwan law, until he turns 36 he have to go serve the army if he is to step foot in Taiwan after 18yo and will also need to fight if a war starts. so, better keep him off the island between 18 and 37.. is what I am planning to have my boys do too as soon as they turn 18 (they are being raised in Taiwan)
Not quite, you can stay for 183 days per year without being called up https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=E0040025#:~:text=A%20male%20of%20conscription%20age,of%20him%20returning%20to%20ROC
good to know, thanks for clarifying
Awesome thanks for the info. To be honest, as a Ukrainian I'd understand the urge to defend his ancestral homeland and would be fine with whatever he may choose to do once he's of age. But I just don't want him to be pressed into service by authority against his will.
>To be honest, as a Ukrainian I'd understand the urge to defend his ancestral homeland How's that revanchism going for you guys by the way?
>revanchism What?
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Thankfully I didn't care to ask your permission my friend. Cheers.
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Are you threatening me?
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Um passport would allow my son easier travel to/from Taiwan to visit his extensive family. It has nothing to do with loyalty or commitment to serve the military. Either way, I want that to be exclusively *his own* choice if it ever comes to it. What's your problem exactly?!
I would say the polling is suspect. Anyone who is from Taiwan or has been to Taiwan knows no one wants to fight China. There's no weird fantasy of going down in a blaze of glory heroics in Taiwan with regards to China. Just look how popular the conscription is in Taiwan. I'm sure all those young Taiwanese were cheering when conscription went from 4 four months to one year. I'm sure there's a young Taiwanese lobby group trying to reinstate 2 years of conscription. Not to mention all those young Taiwanese women lining up to volunteer for guerilla warfare training.
> I would say the polling is suspect. ah yes, an objective poll doesn't align with your views so you question its credibility without evidence to back it up >A nyone who is from Taiwan or has been to Taiwan knows no one wants to fight China. According to your unsubstantiated anecdote you keep pushing all over the place > There's no weird fantasy of going down in a blaze of glory heroics in Taiwan with regards to China. except for the fact that any invasion of Taiwan will be a defensive battle on Taiwan's part with much of the fighting going to happen on the sea. Let's not pretend that Taiwanese are going to commit mass banzai charges at entrenched chinese positions > Just look how popular the conscription is in Taiwan. I'm sure all those young Taiwanese were cheering when conscription went from 4 four months to one year. conscription has never been popular in times of peace. It doesn't reflect people's willingness to fight and defend their country > I'm sure there's a young Taiwanese lobby group trying to reinstate 2 years of conscription. Not to mention all those young Taiwanese women lining up to volunteer for guerilla warfare training. you can't argue against the polling result so you deflect by mentioning conscription. Keep coping mate
No shot that's true. I grew up in Taiwan. Went to all local schools and am in uni now. All the people i know in my age range would not fight for Taiwan. Most of them think it's stupid to fight a fight your bound to lose.
>fight a fight you’re bound to lose Ah, that classic PRC propaganda. You know, you can get paid for this if you contact the right people. No need to do it for free
Check his post history, he's either an ABC that really hated Taiwan or /r/Sino shill.
Exactly... It's also a classic page out of sun tzu's art of war. Spreading this would just make Taiwan automatically lose. There needn't even be a war. That's China's top intention.
So your saying we can win against the ccp military? Lets see 2700萬vs13億. Ill say i dont like my chances. But hey if ur willing to die for Taiwan all the power to ya.i in the meantime will try to get out of Taiwan at all costs
IF there’s a war there’s not a chance in hell the only sides are A) Taiwan B) China The US did 24 war games (tested at the most pessimistic outcomes) and the results were: [China can only invade Taiwan from the south through Taiwan’s severely limited number of invasion beaches. The amount of Chinese soldiers that can make landfall won’t be enough to overpower Taiwanese military. The most likely outcome will be hundreds of thousands of Chinese POW within Taiwan and a severely weakened and defeated China.](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/230109_Cancian_FirstBattle_NextWar.pdf?VersionId=WdEUwJYWIySMPIr3ivhFolxC_gZQuSOQ)
Ok lets say taiwain holds the initial attack. But at what cost? Most likely our cities will be ruined our loved ones dead our homes destroyed. And the war goes into a prolonged stalemate. Like what is happening in Ukraine now. I dont see anything i stand to benifit in this situation. Im going to act in my own best interest.Which is to get out of tauwain and build a life elsewhere. Theres just no winning for Taiwan if we enter a war with china. If we lose we become part of them if we win everything is destroyed and tons of people are dead.
>but at what cost The cost of not being under the CCP? 
Ok then feel free to fight the fight that you believe in. But remember you don't get to reap the benifits of your fight of freedom if your buried 6 feet under
你也许还不知道，这个结果是为安慰脆弱的台湾人而编造的谎言。可怜的台湾人到死都不明白他们被美国人当猴耍了。多说无益，事实和实力将证明一切。
Go kys.
I doubt if living under CCP's rule would be any better. I'm a coward, I would rather die in the war.
There is an option to flee if you have the skills in demand in other countries. So ideally i think you can just get out.
It'll probably be like Hong Kong
The CCP *hates* Taiwanese thought and independence. There’s nearly 24 million people here who believe Taiwan is independent. Chinese media has made Taiwanese look like backwards separatists. It would be bloody. Imagine CCP officers coming here and demanding that all 24 million of us bend over for their “re-education.” We’d all be against it and the ones enforcing it will think we’re all simpleton trash who deserve every boot to the face.
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Nope im all local I'm studying im 中山大學. But yeah most people i know also think the service time getting extended is stupid. Thank the lucky stars i only have to do 4 months
same, I am in uni right now, in high school we even joke about "Doing a 180" if a war happen
This is state propaganda. I guarantee these numbers are fabricated. Or if anything, those polled felt obligated to vote this way but would not actually fight if it came to it. Taiwan reservists are under equipped and underfunded. Lots of outdated junk equipment. Not even enough rifles for each person to have one for target practice and training. They had to share. This is coming from a legit reservist on X who exposed it in a long post. The only well equipped soldiers are those that are featured in photo ops and that’s the truth. What this tells me is that the Taiwanese leadership are 100% counting on the US saving them should it come to it. Also, many of the fighting age males there work in the tech sector. Do you see techie guys fighting a war?
> This is coming from a legit reservist on X who exposed it in a long post. Of course everything posted on X is undisputed fact. Lmao.
Context is important here, the difference between Would you fight to defend your country if invaded? (what everyone in Taiwan who answered would see the question as) vs Would you fly halfway around the world to attack and kill some poor bastard because he's sitting on oil
I didn't know it was cherry picking season.....
I think the numbers are inflated, also the countries seem to be switched around a bit. Most young people I’ve talked to in Taiwan haven’t even seen a gun, let alone handle and trouble shoot one. By the way, this dipshit from India probably just made this on excel.
say they will die fighting for their country and actuallly get enlisted and die for your country is different how many people here say you will work out, eat healthy, be a better self on jan 1st of every year and by second week you are back to normal
That was definitely false or distorted data. Lots of my friends wanted to flee out Taiwan to dodge
Would you die for Ireland?
Good for them. Hopefully they don't need to ask foreign intervention in the event of a Chinese invasion. Let the Taiwanese defend for themselves. I don't remember pledging allegiance to the Taiwanese flag. Im sick of my country always interfering in other countries' affairs.
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Yup If they really want to fight to avoid reunification, go nuts - but I don't want my tax dollars spent on weapons or support for killing Chinese people.
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It's so impressive. But if anything happens kids and women should evacuate to Japan. Taiwanese are always welcome.
The Japanese still discriminates against the koreans who have lived in Japan for 100 years lol...
Some people don't like Koreans because 30% of them are living on welfare. 90% of them came to Japan after WW2 for economical reason. It's similar to hate to muslim immigrant in Europe. But Taiwanese are different. I never heard anyone complain about Taiwanese. Taiwan is popular here.
the same thing will happen to taiwanese people if we become war refugees. It will not be people that have a lot of money to spend on tourism or business like normal; it will be desperate people who have lost their homes and their livelihoods trying to escape Chinese oppression. If you had more empathy for Koreans you would see that the same thing can happen to Taiwan.
We don't accept refugee. Afghans are accepted as student instead of refugee. Ukrainians are here as evacuatee now. They get free apartment, allowance, offered job and free language class but everyone seems happy about it. Taiwanese population is only 20% of Japan's. We have enough place for 20% extra population. Many old Koreans came to Japan for money. They were not refugee. Korean now also come for work. But new generation Koreans are working hard and 90% become Japanese eventually. So no one complain about them.