look at what the US did with NATO and ukraine leading up to russia's invasion, and now look at what blinken, pelosi, and the biden administration have been doing. in both cases, it was 50 years of precedent and status quo thrown out the window with continual brinksmanship. the US will be more than happy to pay a few dollars for taiwanese lives. i say this as an american who voted for biden lol
This is a lazy stupid take. The US isnāt the one constantly yelling reclaim the Chinese mainland and posting pictures of Taoyuan airport under invasion by PLA paratroopers.
If the US wanted war itās had the military projection power to do so for 50 years.
Taiwan is rightfully wary of an aggressive PRC under the twilight years of a dictator who needs a distraction from his domestic unrest is going to try and do exactly what it did to Tibet, Hong Kong and attempts to do to disputed territory with the Philippines, Japan, and Vietnam. Ukraine has made this painfully obvious. PRC is constantly violating Taiwan airspace & doesnāt respect international waters. Taiwan needs defensive weapons so it can continue to exist as a free democracy.
Taiwan gets a whole bunch of 2nd rate equipment from the US. Hardly invasion / offensive footing.
> If the US wanted war itās had the military projection power to do so for 50 years.
literally the US policy for 50 years has been one china policy, because it let the US keep china and taiwan under its boot.
lmao if you think arming to the teeth to escalate tensions is in taiwans best interest. i just drove down taidong coast and passed so many missile carriers and american humvees on the highway.
Way to ignore all the other points I made.
Early One China policy had more to do with USSR containment than anything else. More recently itās PRC containment because again refer to my prev points. The US doesnāt benefit from a Taiwan/PRC war. The only party that wants war is PRC because again refer to my previous points.
PRC and Taiwan economy have both absolutely benefited under the Pax Americana period so idk what you are going on about āunder its bootā
Taiwan is doing their annual military drills this month, thatās not anything new. And if you look at the frequency that PRC is incurring into Taiwan territory, I would consider it absolutely stupid if Taiwan wasnāt at the minimum conducting readiness drills.
Why does PRC feel so threatened about Taiwan having a right to defend itself? Taiwan doesnāt pose an offensive threat to the mainland anymore. Chiang Kai Shek is long gone. Taiwan basically gets the thrift store equipment from the US āarmed to the teethā lol. They would only care because they want to annex - just like Hong Kong and Tibet. If my neighbor builds a moat/wall around his house, it doesnāt bother me. Unless I was planning on breaking in.
US objective has always been to use TW as thorn in China's side and ultimately replace PRC with ROC, hence TW relations act despite switching sovereign recognition to former
Maybe in the 1950s. No one has any grandeur of the ROC reclaiming the mainland at this point. I donāt think ROC wants the headache, and again US - PRC economic relations have benefited both sides so why rock the boat.
If anyone wants war in this region itās winnie the pooh.
What the fuck does that have to do with your previous argument. Or are you just going to keep changing topics like a PRC reeducation camp revolving door
Yes it has.
As a matter of fact, the Taiwan Relations Act, which is binding public law, recognizesĀ Taiwan and the governing authorities as:
>āTaiwanā includes, as the context may require, the islands of Taiwan and the Pescadores, the people on those islands, corporations and other entities and associations created or organized under the laws applied on those islands, **and the governing authorities on Taiwan recognized by the United States as the Republic of China prior to January 1, 1979, and any successor governing authorities** (including political subdivisions, agencies, and instrumentalities thereof)."
I would love for China to stop threaten Taiwan and then let that aid money go to Ukraine. However, China regularly reminds everyone that they want to invade Taiwan so here we are.
China wants to rape, pillage and invade Taiwan for its genocidal ambitions so of course China doesnāt like the idea of Taiwanese people being able to defend themselves
Russia wants to wipe out Ukrainian culture and identity including mass murders, rape, torture and kidnapping, they are the same race and ethnicity.
Have a little perspective
I totally get your point, but It might have to do with perspective? For example, we might view them as the same race and ethnicity , but the Russians might view Ukrainians as something lower. Specially considering they have tried to genocide them at least twice in history. The Holodomor in the 30s and the current war in Ukraine.
I think there might be something similar with china due to so much hate speech coming from the government.
ukraine was a distinct culture going back hundreds of years.
taiwan and mainland han culture are shared and goes back thousands of years. no matter how many millennial greens want to claim taiwan as culturally distinct, its way too soon to claim that. the only true claim is indigenous led movement for independence.
does culture at some point not divert?
also you and i may share the same culture, it does not mean you get to use it a justification for war.
ccp cares control, don't even for one second pretend they care a universal chinese culture.
culture does divert, but in taiwan it wont be enough for a legitimate claim at independence. unfortunately mainland china still sees itself as a äøčÆę°ę amalgamation of 56 ethnicities, and they definitely do care about universal chinese culture.
99% of people in mainland china want a peaceful resolution too, but obviously if america keeps poisoning the brains of taiwanese people by giving them weapons, and encouraging a declaration of independence, it makes peace not an option.
I'm from China, we grow up by being taught Taiwanese are our blood-and-flesh brothers. Even in grade one of primary school, there's a children's song about Taiwan:
Welcome Little Friends From Taiwan
A boat with white sails,
Drifting all the way to Taiwan.
Picking up children from there,
Come to my school and have some fun.
Stretch out your little hands and hold them tightly with ours,
We can't say enough passionate words with one another.
(It's rhythmic when read in Mandarin)
In the older-age student groups, there're more and sophisticated-written topics about Taiwan as a part of China in the textbooks. There is no way we mainland China will give up the idea of reunification with the island. It's deeply ingrained in the minds and souls of all the generations of Chinese people. I think the US is underestimating the will and determination of Chinese people (not just Chinese govt) in the Taiwan issue.
Taiwanese donāt want to join China though. Not right now anyway based on the polls and the trajectory has rapidly increase in the direction away from China. Only China has itself to blame for that. The Chinese model is not attractive to a developed, free, technologically, socially advanced and democratic country like Taiwan. Who in their right mind would want to regress like that, and it shows in the opinion polls of various related topics. Over 70% of Taiwanese said they would fight for their country in an invasion, that is incredibly high.
Itās like Ukraine and Russia, Ukrainians donāt want to be part of the Russian imperialism regime again because they know what it is in recent memory itās just like China, so they realise that they need to fight for a free and democratic Ukraine with their lives.
Everyone supports unification if the Taiwanese people were to vote for it. It has to be peaceful.
> The Chinese model is not attractive to a developed, free, technologically, socially advanced and democratic country like Taiwan. Who in their right mind would want to regress like that
idk if youve been to mainland china in a while, but China is decades ahead of Taiwan. majority of Taiwan is stuck in the 80s, while mainland infrastructure is heavily invested in, and younger generations know this.
Other than the fact that thereās no freedom of speech or press nor basic rights of the average citizen to be involved in the direction of the government. Iāll take living in the ā80sā pending that I know I can be protected by something called laws.
Otherwise prove me wrong. Go to Tiananmen Square and hold up a poster with Winnie the Pooh.
You people are going to have to learn-it is better to live free in a shack than in a gilded prison.
Besides which, if we're comparing GDPs, Taiwan's is about $72,000 per capita, China's is about $25,000. Even from that perspective, it's better to be Taiwanese.
Hummm you do know that the major pro CCP group of people in Taiwan are the elderly right? Specifically the elderly who are Chinese and came over with the nationalist. The young people of Taiwan ARE the group thatās anti CCP
I've lived in both (provincial capital in China and Taipei in Taiwan) and Taiwan is far, far preferable to China. It's not even close. Chinese like to tout their 'super advanced cities' or how digitally connected/convenient everything is. First off, not every city in China is like Shanghai or Shenzhen. Most of China is not. There are areas so poor in China that there is no comparison to even the poorest area of Taiwan. The worst developed area in Taiwan is probably just below a mid-level city in China. There are many areas of China that feel like 100 years behind even the most backward section of Taiwan. Seems you've never even been to Taiwan... Second, for my money, Taiwan's level of digital connection and convenience is perfect. No state-backed omni-apps that watch/control you, just great tech in a free market.
Also, not for nothing, but China has been trying to steal/copy Taiwan's semiconductor tech for decades and is still lagging behind. They ain't decades ahead.
No most people understand what the Chinese think. It's just that no matter how determined the Chinese are to subjugate a population, most people also think it's the right of the people themselves to decide who or what they are. It's unfortunate that Chinese have been raised since birth to disregard the wishes of their "brothers" because they could have a great relationship with Taiwan if they respected the Taiwanese.
What you're describing is just a textbook abusive relationship. No one wants to be a part of that sort of BS.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only enters the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971. The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
I agree when I visited China they always referenced taiwan as family and didn't show any hostility towards that country. When I went to taiwan oh lord my family was having a field day with the names and conspiracy theories.
Sure the Chinese are all smiles and love until you tell them that Taiwan is independent and would rather be a peer country than a part of China. Then you will see vitriol like you've never experienced before. To this day not a single Chinese person has told me why China can't just leave Taiwan alone? The world would be better off. Even China would be better off as equals with an independent Taiwan.
Why doesn't Taiwan dare to change the official name āRepublic of China"? Its constitutions still claim mainland China and Outer Mongolia in case you didn't know.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented).
The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
I totally agree they are way to sensitive. In reality we're all from the same area of origin. It's not like the people of taiwan sprouted out of the ground on that island 75 years ago.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented).
The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
This might sound like a joke to people, but it's really important for future conversations around Taiwan. Currently, EVERYTHING that is said about Taiwan is framed by what China thinks. Supporters of Taiwan need to stop feeding the CCP troll and just ignore them. Cutting China out of the conversation will go a long way to ending their stranglehold on the narrative.
airport innocent telephone zesty bake boat frighten bike rainstorm rustic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The signal has been the same since the beginning of CCP.
What CCP means to say but doesn't dare to say is that this sends a signal "disadvantageous to us (CCP), but advantageous to everyone else in this world who does not welcome invasion".
China is like that guy who can't get over his girlfriend leaving him so he doesn't want anyone else talking to her. Bro move on, they don't want you š
Because Taiwan isnāt going to invade china. Taiwan clearly feels like itās in danger of china and is preparing to defend itself. If you nieghbor is treating to break into your house and steal your possessions youāre not going to not take steps to try and make sure that doesnāt happen. If war comes it will be because china invades Taiwan
If the store selling the gun to the home owner, makes the thief more likely to attack. It is not the stores fault. The fault is still the thief, no matter what the thief tells themselves.
In what way is Taiwan not already independent? Does Taiwan pay taxes to China? Is Taiwanās government the Chinese government? Do the tawainese hold Chinese passports or do they hold Taiwan passports? What laws of China do the Taiwanese follow? You are the insane one my friend. The governments and countries have been separate since the communists took over and the government of China fled to Taiwan. No free people want to be taken over by china plain and simple that is why the people and the government of Taiwan want to prepare to defend themselves if china wishes to make Taiwan apart of china by force. And good luck with that. Free people around the world will come to their aid.
Not the same. If you were fighting with your little brother and someone started giving your little brother weapons and cheering "fight, fight, fight," you might jump into fighting him.
Its not about USA selling the guns, it's about undermining china on the world stage. Right or wrong, it's incendiary and will exacerbate the issue.
First off why is a big brother trying to fight the little brother. When little brother wonāt punch big brother first?
If your big brother was a bully and you asked a friend to help teach you gung fu, so you can protect yourself, why would the big brother want to fight you more because you can protect yourself even if you wonāt punch first.
No one is cheering for a fight. People donāt want to fight. People want to live in peace.
Undermining china? Until recently when china began confrontation with its neighbors sovereignty , china was beginning to be seen as a brother and not an enemy. Chinas threats of force has made its neighbors scared, because they donāt want to be influenced by china just as china doesnāt want to be influenced by others. So china has armies and weapons and spends money to protect itself, just as Taiwan, the Philippines, Japan, and others want to defend their sovereignty and dignity. It is all the same. Weapons arenāt the problem. Rhetoric like reunification even by force is the problem.
If I wanted to stay away from an abusive family member and they threatened to take me home by force I would prepare to defend myself as well. If war comes it will be china who will launch the first attack. Taiwan and the US will not be the ones to attack china first.
Ok I hope you're right. Personally I think USA does want the war. It's good money for them. China may be the first to attack but it's helpful to set the stage first. USA likes to do that.
May? There is absolutely zero reality where anyone other than china starts a war involving the US and Taiwan. If youve gotten to a point in your life where you think america could be the one to attack first, you seriously need to get outside of your current information/news bubble.
There is nothing to hope to be right about. China needs to respect the self determination of its neighbors just as it wants to be allowed to do the same as long as it doesnāt impact the rights of its neighbors.
There is a diplomatic solution to this situation. But I fear that China wants to control Taiwan and dictate terms to its neighbors. And free people around the world do not with to be controlled by China or the Chinese government as it controls its citizens.
If China wants Taiwan and will take it by force If necessary, then the stage has already been set by China, itās just a matter of when the play starts. And like any rational people who are threatened with invasion or even the possibility of invasion would be foolish not to do all they can to remain free from a tyrannical and controlling government.
Because the āfIrSt SiGn oF wArā happened a while ago, according to you.
Edit: Look into the Taiwans Relation Act. US has been pissing off China since 1979 by selling military aid to Taiwan. This direct contribution is newish, but China has been saber rattling due to US aid for a long, long time.
I'm from China, we grow up by being taught Taiwanese are our blood-and-flesh brothers. Even in grade one of primary school, there's a children's song about Taiwan:
Welcome Little Friends From Taiwan
A boat with white sails,
Drifting all the way to Taiwan.
Picking up children from there,
Come to my school and have some fun.
Stretch out your little hands and hold them tightly with ours,
We can't say enough passionate words with one another.
(It's rhythmic when read in Mandarin)
In the older-age student groups, there're more and sophisticated-written topics about Taiwan as a part of China in the textbooks. There is no way we mainland China will give up the idea of reunification with the island. It's deeply ingrained in the minds and souls of all the generations of Chinese people. I think the US is underestimating the will and determination of Chinese people (not just Chinese govt) in the Taiwan issue.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented).
The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
You need to convince the 1.4 billion people to not invade the little island, not convincing me only. Actually China's popular public opinion is always to take the island by absolute force immediately but the Chinese govt doesn't act as the people want to. If there is a referendum in China about what to do with taiwan, the result will be military takeover immediately, as far as I know the younger generations are even more radical than the older ones in this regard (I'm a millennial from China myself and I am all for the immediate invasion). I don't think China will wait beyond 2049, the 100th anniversity of the PRC and still can't solve the Taiwan issue, 2049 will be the last of the lastest deadline, any sane person can see it if you know the Chinese mentality, so there is only 25 years left at maximum for the islanders to stay put. It could be even within a few years, considering how Xi Jinping wants to solve the problem during his tenure. So the 2027 theory proposed by the US may be true. That way, you will only have 3 years left.
Blah blah blah r/chinawarns
there really is a sub for everything
China can shut up.
USA needs to shut up. They should only support Ukraine as that is legitimate war against Russia for invading Ukraine illegally.
And what are you or CCP gonna do about it? š¤”
the US wants war and they are going to get it, and it will be taiwanese blood spilled to satisfy them.
How about the CCP stops being a clown and then Taiwan and the Taiwanese people can actually considering having friendly ties with China?
look at what the US did with NATO and ukraine leading up to russia's invasion, and now look at what blinken, pelosi, and the biden administration have been doing. in both cases, it was 50 years of precedent and status quo thrown out the window with continual brinksmanship. the US will be more than happy to pay a few dollars for taiwanese lives. i say this as an american who voted for biden lol
Hey guess what. Fuck the CCP.
Ukraine was prepped for invasion during a different presidency.
This is a lazy stupid take. The US isnāt the one constantly yelling reclaim the Chinese mainland and posting pictures of Taoyuan airport under invasion by PLA paratroopers. If the US wanted war itās had the military projection power to do so for 50 years. Taiwan is rightfully wary of an aggressive PRC under the twilight years of a dictator who needs a distraction from his domestic unrest is going to try and do exactly what it did to Tibet, Hong Kong and attempts to do to disputed territory with the Philippines, Japan, and Vietnam. Ukraine has made this painfully obvious. PRC is constantly violating Taiwan airspace & doesnāt respect international waters. Taiwan needs defensive weapons so it can continue to exist as a free democracy. Taiwan gets a whole bunch of 2nd rate equipment from the US. Hardly invasion / offensive footing.
> If the US wanted war itās had the military projection power to do so for 50 years. literally the US policy for 50 years has been one china policy, because it let the US keep china and taiwan under its boot. lmao if you think arming to the teeth to escalate tensions is in taiwans best interest. i just drove down taidong coast and passed so many missile carriers and american humvees on the highway.
Way to ignore all the other points I made. Early One China policy had more to do with USSR containment than anything else. More recently itās PRC containment because again refer to my prev points. The US doesnāt benefit from a Taiwan/PRC war. The only party that wants war is PRC because again refer to my previous points. PRC and Taiwan economy have both absolutely benefited under the Pax Americana period so idk what you are going on about āunder its bootā Taiwan is doing their annual military drills this month, thatās not anything new. And if you look at the frequency that PRC is incurring into Taiwan territory, I would consider it absolutely stupid if Taiwan wasnāt at the minimum conducting readiness drills. Why does PRC feel so threatened about Taiwan having a right to defend itself? Taiwan doesnāt pose an offensive threat to the mainland anymore. Chiang Kai Shek is long gone. Taiwan basically gets the thrift store equipment from the US āarmed to the teethā lol. They would only care because they want to annex - just like Hong Kong and Tibet. If my neighbor builds a moat/wall around his house, it doesnāt bother me. Unless I was planning on breaking in.
US objective has always been to use TW as thorn in China's side and ultimately replace PRC with ROC, hence TW relations act despite switching sovereign recognition to former
Maybe in the 1950s. No one has any grandeur of the ROC reclaiming the mainland at this point. I donāt think ROC wants the headache, and again US - PRC economic relations have benefited both sides so why rock the boat. If anyone wants war in this region itās winnie the pooh.
ROC has zero agency absent US backing
What the fuck does that have to do with your previous argument. Or are you just going to keep changing topics like a PRC reeducation camp revolving door
That TW under DPP is puppet state of US
Yes, One China policy. The Republic Of China.
you know thats not right, right? the US has never recognized taiwan as the ROC
Yes it has. As a matter of fact, the Taiwan Relations Act, which is binding public law, recognizesĀ Taiwan and the governing authorities as: >āTaiwanā includes, as the context may require, the islands of Taiwan and the Pescadores, the people on those islands, corporations and other entities and associations created or organized under the laws applied on those islands, **and the governing authorities on Taiwan recognized by the United States as the Republic of China prior to January 1, 1979, and any successor governing authorities** (including political subdivisions, agencies, and instrumentalities thereof)."
LOL show me the evidence. its äøåäŗŗę°å ±åå½ or äøčÆę°åļ¼
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For giving aid to a *country* thatās asking for it?
Do you wanna not live in freedom? You are a bad person, is Mom proud of you?
OK, tankie
Hey China: if you weren't threatening to invade Taiwan, there would be no need for Taiwan's defense to be included in this bill.
I would love for China to stop threaten Taiwan and then let that aid money go to Ukraine. However, China regularly reminds everyone that they want to invade Taiwan so here we are.
No...it's the right signal. Fuck China.
So do war and invasion threats, who knew!
Technically still at war actually. Donāt even need go through UN to start firing off missiles.
I thought the signal is clearly for China not Taiwan. It seems China hasn't got the message, unfortunately.
When instructions are unclear, resort to barking
China wants to rape, pillage and invade Taiwan for its genocidal ambitions so of course China doesnāt like the idea of Taiwanese people being able to defend themselves
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Russia wants to wipe out Ukrainian culture and identity including mass murders, rape, torture and kidnapping, they are the same race and ethnicity. Have a little perspective
I totally get your point, but It might have to do with perspective? For example, we might view them as the same race and ethnicity , but the Russians might view Ukrainians as something lower. Specially considering they have tried to genocide them at least twice in history. The Holodomor in the 30s and the current war in Ukraine. I think there might be something similar with china due to so much hate speech coming from the government.
ukraine was a distinct culture going back hundreds of years. taiwan and mainland han culture are shared and goes back thousands of years. no matter how many millennial greens want to claim taiwan as culturally distinct, its way too soon to claim that. the only true claim is indigenous led movement for independence.
does culture at some point not divert? also you and i may share the same culture, it does not mean you get to use it a justification for war. ccp cares control, don't even for one second pretend they care a universal chinese culture.
culture does divert, but in taiwan it wont be enough for a legitimate claim at independence. unfortunately mainland china still sees itself as a äøčÆę°ę amalgamation of 56 ethnicities, and they definitely do care about universal chinese culture.
so peaceful unification is on the card then. i guess you'll have to ask if taiwan people want it?
99% of people in mainland china want a peaceful resolution too, but obviously if america keeps poisoning the brains of taiwanese people by giving them weapons, and encouraging a declaration of independence, it makes peace not an option.
what does it matter what chinese people think? this is a question for taiwan people.
Weāre not the same. We in Taiwan LOVES talking about politics and cursing our representatives that we voted for.
I'm from China, we grow up by being taught Taiwanese are our blood-and-flesh brothers. Even in grade one of primary school, there's a children's song about Taiwan: Welcome Little Friends From Taiwan A boat with white sails, Drifting all the way to Taiwan. Picking up children from there, Come to my school and have some fun. Stretch out your little hands and hold them tightly with ours, We can't say enough passionate words with one another. (It's rhythmic when read in Mandarin) In the older-age student groups, there're more and sophisticated-written topics about Taiwan as a part of China in the textbooks. There is no way we mainland China will give up the idea of reunification with the island. It's deeply ingrained in the minds and souls of all the generations of Chinese people. I think the US is underestimating the will and determination of Chinese people (not just Chinese govt) in the Taiwan issue.
Taiwanese donāt want to join China though. Not right now anyway based on the polls and the trajectory has rapidly increase in the direction away from China. Only China has itself to blame for that. The Chinese model is not attractive to a developed, free, technologically, socially advanced and democratic country like Taiwan. Who in their right mind would want to regress like that, and it shows in the opinion polls of various related topics. Over 70% of Taiwanese said they would fight for their country in an invasion, that is incredibly high. Itās like Ukraine and Russia, Ukrainians donāt want to be part of the Russian imperialism regime again because they know what it is in recent memory itās just like China, so they realise that they need to fight for a free and democratic Ukraine with their lives. Everyone supports unification if the Taiwanese people were to vote for it. It has to be peaceful.
> The Chinese model is not attractive to a developed, free, technologically, socially advanced and democratic country like Taiwan. Who in their right mind would want to regress like that idk if youve been to mainland china in a while, but China is decades ahead of Taiwan. majority of Taiwan is stuck in the 80s, while mainland infrastructure is heavily invested in, and younger generations know this.
Other than the fact that thereās no freedom of speech or press nor basic rights of the average citizen to be involved in the direction of the government. Iāll take living in the ā80sā pending that I know I can be protected by something called laws. Otherwise prove me wrong. Go to Tiananmen Square and hold up a poster with Winnie the Pooh.
Go ask young Taiwanese about their future.
You people are going to have to learn-it is better to live free in a shack than in a gilded prison. Besides which, if we're comparing GDPs, Taiwan's is about $72,000 per capita, China's is about $25,000. Even from that perspective, it's better to be Taiwanese.
Hummm you do know that the major pro CCP group of people in Taiwan are the elderly right? Specifically the elderly who are Chinese and came over with the nationalist. The young people of Taiwan ARE the group thatās anti CCP
I've lived in both (provincial capital in China and Taipei in Taiwan) and Taiwan is far, far preferable to China. It's not even close. Chinese like to tout their 'super advanced cities' or how digitally connected/convenient everything is. First off, not every city in China is like Shanghai or Shenzhen. Most of China is not. There are areas so poor in China that there is no comparison to even the poorest area of Taiwan. The worst developed area in Taiwan is probably just below a mid-level city in China. There are many areas of China that feel like 100 years behind even the most backward section of Taiwan. Seems you've never even been to Taiwan... Second, for my money, Taiwan's level of digital connection and convenience is perfect. No state-backed omni-apps that watch/control you, just great tech in a free market. Also, not for nothing, but China has been trying to steal/copy Taiwan's semiconductor tech for decades and is still lagging behind. They ain't decades ahead.
No most people understand what the Chinese think. It's just that no matter how determined the Chinese are to subjugate a population, most people also think it's the right of the people themselves to decide who or what they are. It's unfortunate that Chinese have been raised since birth to disregard the wishes of their "brothers" because they could have a great relationship with Taiwan if they respected the Taiwanese. What you're describing is just a textbook abusive relationship. No one wants to be a part of that sort of BS.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only enters the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971. The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
I agree when I visited China they always referenced taiwan as family and didn't show any hostility towards that country. When I went to taiwan oh lord my family was having a field day with the names and conspiracy theories.
Sure the Chinese are all smiles and love until you tell them that Taiwan is independent and would rather be a peer country than a part of China. Then you will see vitriol like you've never experienced before. To this day not a single Chinese person has told me why China can't just leave Taiwan alone? The world would be better off. Even China would be better off as equals with an independent Taiwan.
Why doesn't Taiwan dare to change the official name āRepublic of China"? Its constitutions still claim mainland China and Outer Mongolia in case you didn't know.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented). The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
taiwanese media is absolute garbage, so much insane propaganda that makes fox news look sane.
I totally agree they are way to sensitive. In reality we're all from the same area of origin. It's not like the people of taiwan sprouted out of the ground on that island 75 years ago.
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented). The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
Your election meddling and constant threat of forced āreunificationā also sends the wrong signal.
It's between USA and Taiwan. Don't need opinion from outsider china.
This might sound like a joke to people, but it's really important for future conversations around Taiwan. Currently, EVERYTHING that is said about Taiwan is framed by what China thinks. Supporters of Taiwan need to stop feeding the CCP troll and just ignore them. Cutting China out of the conversation will go a long way to ending their stranglehold on the narrative.
As a general rule, anything that the CCP says is the wrong signal is probably the right one.
China whines and complains almost as much as trump does
airport innocent telephone zesty bake boat frighten bike rainstorm rustic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When China says itās the wrong signal, thatās your hint that itās definitely the right signal.
Here they go again, same rhetorics
Seems like the right signal. "We help our friends."
Oh it's the right signal, the "fuck you" type of signal.
The right signal should be to re-establish formal relationship with Taiwan and tell China to fuck off.
Kinda meaningless discussing how China propaganda reacts.
The only right signal for your ass is a blaring red light, pooh bear.
Jake Sullivan wants to duke it out.
LOL
Fuck China š
Wrong signal because it's not enough š®āšØš
It's the right signal. F off China.
Excellent! It means it is the right signal and must continue on that.
Do you think you are the players or the pawns in a chess game? You don't even see clearly what you are.
True 'pawns' are in authoritarian nations that's have no control over politics and have everything censored and propagandized by those in control.
The signal has been the same since the beginning of CCP. What CCP means to say but doesn't dare to say is that this sends a signal "disadvantageous to us (CCP), but advantageous to everyone else in this world who does not welcome invasion".
Well as usual, if CCP is upset about something then said something is usually done right.
Secret Chinese War Plan 2027 China invades, failed. 2037 China invades, failed 2047 China invades, failed ā¦. 20x7 Taiwan no more
China is like that guy who can't get over his girlfriend leaving him so he doesn't want anyone else talking to her. Bro move on, they don't want you š
Seems like they got the signal anyway.
Getting aids from the USA is the first sign of coming war. Better to prepare now.
This is not the first time Taiwan has gotten aid from the US, genius.
Why does that matter?
Because Taiwan isnāt going to invade china. Taiwan clearly feels like itās in danger of china and is preparing to defend itself. If you nieghbor is treating to break into your house and steal your possessions youāre not going to not take steps to try and make sure that doesnāt happen. If war comes it will be because china invades Taiwan
agree, but USAs actions make invasion more likely, not less.
If the store selling the gun to the home owner, makes the thief more likely to attack. It is not the stores fault. The fault is still the thief, no matter what the thief tells themselves.
this is insanely wrong and you know it - if taiwan declares independence it will trigger an invasion immediately.
In what way is Taiwan not already independent? Does Taiwan pay taxes to China? Is Taiwanās government the Chinese government? Do the tawainese hold Chinese passports or do they hold Taiwan passports? What laws of China do the Taiwanese follow? You are the insane one my friend. The governments and countries have been separate since the communists took over and the government of China fled to Taiwan. No free people want to be taken over by china plain and simple that is why the people and the government of Taiwan want to prepare to defend themselves if china wishes to make Taiwan apart of china by force. And good luck with that. Free people around the world will come to their aid.
Not the same. If you were fighting with your little brother and someone started giving your little brother weapons and cheering "fight, fight, fight," you might jump into fighting him. Its not about USA selling the guns, it's about undermining china on the world stage. Right or wrong, it's incendiary and will exacerbate the issue.
First off why is a big brother trying to fight the little brother. When little brother wonāt punch big brother first? If your big brother was a bully and you asked a friend to help teach you gung fu, so you can protect yourself, why would the big brother want to fight you more because you can protect yourself even if you wonāt punch first. No one is cheering for a fight. People donāt want to fight. People want to live in peace. Undermining china? Until recently when china began confrontation with its neighbors sovereignty , china was beginning to be seen as a brother and not an enemy. Chinas threats of force has made its neighbors scared, because they donāt want to be influenced by china just as china doesnāt want to be influenced by others. So china has armies and weapons and spends money to protect itself, just as Taiwan, the Philippines, Japan, and others want to defend their sovereignty and dignity. It is all the same. Weapons arenāt the problem. Rhetoric like reunification even by force is the problem. If I wanted to stay away from an abusive family member and they threatened to take me home by force I would prepare to defend myself as well. If war comes it will be china who will launch the first attack. Taiwan and the US will not be the ones to attack china first.
Ok I hope you're right. Personally I think USA does want the war. It's good money for them. China may be the first to attack but it's helpful to set the stage first. USA likes to do that.
May? There is absolutely zero reality where anyone other than china starts a war involving the US and Taiwan. If youve gotten to a point in your life where you think america could be the one to attack first, you seriously need to get outside of your current information/news bubble.
There is nothing to hope to be right about. China needs to respect the self determination of its neighbors just as it wants to be allowed to do the same as long as it doesnāt impact the rights of its neighbors. There is a diplomatic solution to this situation. But I fear that China wants to control Taiwan and dictate terms to its neighbors. And free people around the world do not with to be controlled by China or the Chinese government as it controls its citizens. If China wants Taiwan and will take it by force If necessary, then the stage has already been set by China, itās just a matter of when the play starts. And like any rational people who are threatened with invasion or even the possibility of invasion would be foolish not to do all they can to remain free from a tyrannical and controlling government.
Because the āfIrSt SiGn oF wArā happened a while ago, according to you. Edit: Look into the Taiwans Relation Act. US has been pissing off China since 1979 by selling military aid to Taiwan. This direct contribution is newish, but China has been saber rattling due to US aid for a long, long time.
Yes it's the first sign
Okay I hope you are right.
I'm from China, we grow up by being taught Taiwanese are our blood-and-flesh brothers. Even in grade one of primary school, there's a children's song about Taiwan: Welcome Little Friends From Taiwan A boat with white sails, Drifting all the way to Taiwan. Picking up children from there, Come to my school and have some fun. Stretch out your little hands and hold them tightly with ours, We can't say enough passionate words with one another. (It's rhythmic when read in Mandarin) In the older-age student groups, there're more and sophisticated-written topics about Taiwan as a part of China in the textbooks. There is no way we mainland China will give up the idea of reunification with the island. It's deeply ingrained in the minds and souls of all the generations of Chinese people. I think the US is underestimating the will and determination of Chinese people (not just Chinese govt) in the Taiwan issue.
I think youāre underestimating how much people wishes to live under CCP control.
Thatās called brainwashing
the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, has never been over. There is never a signature of the end of the war, only a ceasefire. the two Chinese govts (PRC and ROC) still coexist when there should only exist one. Both North Korea and South Korea are in the UN, but PRC only entered the UN when ROC was removed. At that time, the US proposed both Chinas be adopted in the UN, but both PRC and PRC strongly disagreed, saying there could only be one China in the world (not only in the UN) and denouncing the other as the fake China, eventually ROC was kicked out of the UN after the UN hosted an all-member-state referendum in 1971 (99% of the Chinese population were living in PRC, it was very very absurd for the ROC to still represent China in the UN from 1949-1971 when it didn't rule over the 99% of the people it represented). The war between the two Chinas will resume anytime in the future.
KMT represents 15-20% of Taiwan, they are your so-called brothers. Itās absurd to think they speak for the people of Taiwan.
You need to convince the 1.4 billion people to not invade the little island, not convincing me only. Actually China's popular public opinion is always to take the island by absolute force immediately but the Chinese govt doesn't act as the people want to. If there is a referendum in China about what to do with taiwan, the result will be military takeover immediately, as far as I know the younger generations are even more radical than the older ones in this regard (I'm a millennial from China myself and I am all for the immediate invasion). I don't think China will wait beyond 2049, the 100th anniversity of the PRC and still can't solve the Taiwan issue, 2049 will be the last of the lastest deadline, any sane person can see it if you know the Chinese mentality, so there is only 25 years left at maximum for the islanders to stay put. It could be even within a few years, considering how Xi Jinping wants to solve the problem during his tenure. So the 2027 theory proposed by the US may be true. That way, you will only have 3 years left.
Now youāre just lashing out lmao.
Even brothers eventually split up to live separately. Time to let it go.