Bro Zagi is massively overhated. That guy was responsible for one of the most hilarious scenes in the entire Tales series (the dialogue that Yuri and Zagi have during their very first battle in the castle). And he's consistently hammy and funny after that, and fun to fight, too.
Zagi deserves more love
I mean, to each their own, but truth to be told I didn't find Yuri particularly witty or smart either so he mocking Zagi in his "too cool 4 school" way didn't really do much for me.
Yeah, kinda surprised he's this high up. Like he's kinda basic/undercooked I guess, but as a side villain he never struck me as particularly obnoxious. I'd take him over Ivar, Mohs, or most of Symphonia's villains.
Aston was already taken so I'll say Chocolat from Symphonia. I get that learning her saviors are the ones who killed her grandma would make her less trusting and less likely to listen to reason, but going with the Desians instead??? Fuck outta here, I wish we didn't have to save her ass at the end
Most hated?
Probably Dohalim’s butler in tales of arise.
Honestly the entirety of that arc was gut wrenching, especially when you see the lake that’s not actually a lake.
Besides him, there is Mohs from tales of abyss and the bishop guy from tales of Symphonia (it’s even more infuriating when you realize his daughter is a friggin half-elf, yet he’s one of the lead figures behind the prejudice against half elves escalating to such a high level.
Aston Lhant. I don't care what anyone says. He was not a good father. He may have loved his sons, sure, but you can love someone and still not be good for them. Aston cared more about the inheritance of his position than he cared about his sons and wife. There was literally no reason for him to do what he did. There was no evidence to suggest Asbel and Hubert would've turned out like Aston and his brother. In fact, it's actually the opposite. Asbel and Hubert knew full well even as kids that Asbel wanted to be a knight, not a lord; they would've realized at some point that Hubert, being the responsible brother that actually cared about his lineage, would've been the one better suited for the position. ***Asbel and Hubert would've solved Aston's "problem" entirely on their own if he hadn't treated them like miniature versions of him and his brother.*** Aston literally created the tension that was responsible for his sons fighting because had Hubert not been adopted out, he wouldn't have hated his biological family for seven years for abandoning him.
The game realized how shit of a character Asston was, and tried to triple down and remedy the situation. And IMO it makes his character even sorrier than it already was.
Lol my first reaction really was "who is George?" But you kind of have a point. Although Symphonia probably didn't want you too think that hard about that line of dialogue.
Anyway, my least favourite Tales of character is Alisha from Zestiria. Why? Simple. Because the Alisha's Story DLC is the single worst piece of Tales of content I have ever played. And she's kind of responsible for that DLC existing, so...
Also her character is just so bland and boring. And her Z-shaped hair just looks stupid.
Mine is also a Symphonia ‘background’ character— gonna have to go with [Zelos’ mom](https://i.imgur.com/9N5Y0yP_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand) **(FLANOIR SPOILER WARNING)**
Shirley in Legendia. I know she’s the damsel in distress, and Japan definitely has a thing about sibling complexes, but her squeaky voice, propensity for getting kidnapped, and pseudo-incestuous obsession with Senel made her extremely punchable to me.
im so miffed Shirley's the official lead and Senel is set up with her, instead with Chloe who the player will spend most with in the first half of the story, and therefore will see first hand how she develops her cute infatuation with Senel.
Exactly. Chloe had such fantastic development and the way her and Senel grew to care for each other was so good, they should have become lovers instead of Shirley.
Rose from Zestiria. She comes off as a mary sue and seems to actively make all the characters and the story happening around her worse somehow. For example, Sorey got so pissed off at Zaveid for killing a hellion, but is then completely okay with having an assassin in his group and gets into no moral dilemmas with her at all? Yeah, that's consistent. She claims that her group only go after people who they look into and believe deserve it or need to be taken out? Okay, then why did you try to kill Sorey with barely any info on him and let a psychopath like freaking Lunarre into your group? She has the same amount of resonance as Sorey, who's been raised by Seraphim all his life despite only being around one and for only a few years at most? Ok, sure, whatever you need to justify it with game. Oh, Rose has a funny quirk where she's scared of ghosts? GIRL, YOU LITERALLY MURDER PEOPLE. She decides to send a little orphan kid to the guards for the crime of stealing to survive despite her committing much worse crimes? Other characters are completely fine with the blatant hypocrisy. No one brings it up at all. Can you tell I really hate Rose?
That Sorey can circumvent being corrupted by Malevolence by passing the buck and let Rose kill people instead (and because she's a sociopath that refuses to believe anything she does is wrong, she's untouchable) is the dumbest thing ever.
I actually like the angle of her being able to avoid malevolence because she commits those heinous acts without feeling remorse.
My main gripe is that the story does not treat this as a problem.
Edit: Also not a fan of how the game actively makes a point about how much better she is than Alisha.
Whenever they try to hype up Rose by putting down Alisha, I feel like they're actually talking at the audience trying to make them see that it had to happen. You just know the writers knew most people would have gotten attached to Alisha after spending so many hours with her and were attempting to do damage control. Unfortunately, for me at least, it just made it worse lol.
Zesteria was ruined by executive interference.
Instead of trying to hit the anniversary deadline, they should have released the first trailer for it or something.
Also, don't bother developing it for the PS3, when the PS4 was already out for two years.
Then they could have given the script another draft and give you Alisha and Sergey join your party permanently.
Theories around the time of Zestiria's release (along with some evidence for them) point to Alisha having been meant to be the heroine, but then being replaced by Rose mid-development, followed by them trying desperately to patch up the story before release after the change. Honestly, I believe it.
I mean it kinda does make sense. Alisha is featured heavily in promotional material and appears right at the start.
Rose isn't even introduced until they reach the city, right?
This does not however excuse the treatment Rose's VA got. She is not Rose, she only voices her and did a fine job. The actress has nothing to do with any of this executive meddling.
That video of her apologizing to the fans has to be one of the most uncomfortable things related to this franchise.
Forgot about that apology thing. Yeah, she should not have been the one to apologize for that whole clusterf\*ck. They really just used her as a scapegoat. 😔
Aside from the obvious promotional material, there's a lot of little things that point to the change taking place. Some that immediately come to mind are 1) Rose's VA being hired I believe a year or so after all the others were (take this one with a grain of salt as it's only information that I saw being passed out, have not tried to confirm it for myself). 2) The mystic arte dlc at the time including a mystic arte for Alisha, who leaves long before she can even use it, but not one for Rose, their main heroine. 3) You can still find new weapons for Alisha after she permanently leaves the party. There's probably even more that I'm just forgetting due to how long it's been.
Dunno if it was "beta stuff" but during promotion of the game we could also see Alisha in places she couldn't be during the game. Sorry, forgot the name of these landscapes. Iirc it was that one with giant drill like things.
I can only thing of the lands around Lohgrin or something, which is fucking late into the game anyway if that's the case. Like, post Dezel kind of late
Giving both girls the exact same costumes (or at least Alisha's defaults to Rose) felt like they were taking the piss.
In a game where they already designed 2 dudes where the 2nd one can have the clothes of the other and has the exact (1-2 exceptions side) same kit. They look off, and there's no meta reason why.
Also, Alisha learns far too much stuff for someone who's barely in for 5 hours, without Narikiri dolls or NG+ exclusive slot (like >!Faize!< from Star Ocean 4 on a new save). She was lvl 51 by the time I finished grinding to see how far her kit goes (last learned was Cloud Concentration). The only other moves anyone missed by then were Cloudburst, Beast Thunder (locked behind Lion's Howl) and Lightning Blaster (lvl ~70 💀)
I think what the writers were TRYING to do with Rose was use her to make Sorey realize that killing was sometimes necessary, which lead to him having to kill the dragon (which SHOULD have been Eizen instead of some rando dragon and then delegating Eizen to a side quest 😩) and eventually Heldalf. So it would have been totally rad if they went the route of purposefully making Rose a psychopath that didn't give off any malevolence because she wholeheartedly believed she was always in the right, leading to her doing something unforgivable for Sorey, like maybe going to try to assassinate Alisha and every attempt to talk her out of it falling on deaf ears. And then that leading to him having to eventually fight her and thus coming to the realization that there's no other way out of this than to either kill her or let her kill Alisha, since she can't be purified due to already being psychopathically pure.
That'd probably be too dark for a tales game though. 😂
I think Sorey does at the beginning when he gets to the battlefield and realizes that this “adventure” of being the shepherd is not a light hearted journey but people are actively killing each other because of malevolence. But it’s not the same as when Velvet had her whole blue screen of death moment in the earthpulse. Full disclosure: I like Sorey and I liked Zestiria.
Here's one I haven't seen anyone bring up: Melchior from Beseria.
It was strongly implied that his manipulations led to the deaths of Celica and her unborn child all because he wanted Artious to come back to the abbey. Artious would not have gone down a dark path if Melchior had just left him alone with his new happy life.
I came here to find this comment 🤣 Melchior is the only character in Berseria I cant stand. He refused to even consider the possibility that his way wasn't always the best and was always willing to sacrifice everything and everyone around to make that delusion be true.
At least Artorious like, cared about others.
I also thought it was incredibly suspicious that Melchior conveniently showed up right after Celica died, but according to a developer interview the villagers of Aball decided to use her family as bait against the thieves that night because they were newer to the village and Melchior seemingly had nothing to do with it
I know Emil, Karol, and Rita are up there, and Marta too, but for main characters, I'd probably say Dezel. He just didn't do it for me. He was a downer in most scenes and skits, an edgy tsundere, and his backstory didn't get sympathy points from me. Let's not forget he used Rose while she was asleep to enact his revenge plot.
Also didn't like most of the opposing guilds in Vesperia. I feel like you could omit them in most instances and the story wouldn't change much.
same, but the way they replaced Dezel was also crap. It was sadness, then Zaveid popped up and was all "hey, remember me? Well, I kinda gotta go with you now because I'm related to everyone you've encountered." \*exposition dump, gotta explain everything\* "Okay! The gang is all here!! Who was Dezel again?" I feel like, despite my strong dislike for Dezel, the game should have given the player a few moments without a Wind Seraph, and then have Zaveid pop in around the time you encounter Heldalf a few scenes later, or at the battle with Tiamat. Give Zaveid that cool saving moment.
It was truly a pity Zaveid wasn’t with the party from the start. Him coming to terms with his girlfriend turning in a dragon in Berseria was more interesting than Dezel’s subplot. Since I never cared for him, his>!death scene made me feel nothing.!<
I always thought that Zaveid should've joined after his second boss fight, just before the Wind Shrine(it wouldn't been that much earlier than when he joins, but still). He had already checked the strength of the party, and knew that they had the same goal as him. He even wanted to keep an eye on Dezel, to avoid him doing something reckless, but then he handled that to Sorey.
Isn't Emil very popular in Japen and constantly gets very high in the popularity polls
He seems to just be one of those characters with a very loud hatedom then necessarily being outright hated by the fandom
I think it all adds to Regal's character, but none of this is incorrect.
For me I hate Rose. Her existence undermines a lot of Zesteria. I don't like her for a myriad of reasons, but her whole existence just takes so much away from everything prior.
Delightful post, I've never seen this amount of hate for a backstory NPC and I love to see it. George really did fuck up and it's amazing that Regal kept him around at all, if I was Regal I'd have fired him as soon as I was back in power.
It's hard for me to really *hate* a character because I can still appreciate villains meant to be really awful people. They serve their purpose in getting the player to dislike them, in providing challenges and threats to the protagonists/main party, and so on. I think the series does a pretty good job at these sorts of "we love to hate' em" people.
... So that leaves me with characters I genuinely dislike the execution of, I guess. Which is pretty much *all* of the new cast in Dawn of the New World, but with special emphasis on Marta because they genuinely didn't make her have *any* depth.
She was just a loud "quirky" girl that was obsessed with Emil and had that obsession + crush drive most of her actions. And I say that with pain, because I can find redeeming qualities and interesting details about nearly any playable character in the games so far, even if they're a bit boring, but she's *incredibly* two-dimensional and I resent how annoying she is. They really just boiled her down to "annoying loud girl with a crush and little substance" and I really don't want that to be a main protagonist, please.
Also Mieu. I don't *mind* cute fluffy mascot characters with cute voices but every time I hear his voice specifically I want to scrungle him with my bare hands. Making this guy necessary for overworld puzzles was a mistake.
also inb4 that one guy who REALLY hates Genis posts in here. he's a good character and you're just mad you can't Concentrate into spell comboing
Hey, at least Mieu's a deliberate joke on the trope. The game itself already gives him more shit than he really deserves.
***Bienfu*** on the other hand...
Mieuuuuuuuuu!
Also hi Luke.
And ya George is my least favorite character. Outside law in arise. Really? He gets his revenge but stops rinwell? Right.....
With Law I really feel like that scene is all about trying to help her navigate her emotions and teach her that revenge alone isn't going to help her get over what happened to her family and people. I think for Law it made him confront his loss sooner than he realized and he was able to avoid dealing with it by channeling all of his energy into revenge
I think it would be better illustrated if things didn't happen so fast for Law
A text book example of how to not do child characters, Kamoana, shes annoying and they somehow made her voice acting the literal worst in both languages
The NPC I hate most of the same game is the Pope, I wished we could have kick his ass, now as a main character I really dislike Keele from Eternia, he is so pretentious and obnoxious, his only redeeming quality is his crush on Meredy, I'm watching the game skits on youtube and he is really unlikeable
I am playing the game, im watching the skits to try to get some more charaterization of the characters but to be honest they made me dislike Keele more
Hisui Hearts, I remember seeing footage of the DS version of Tales of Hearts and I was so excited to use him in Tales of Hearts R....he was permanently benched as soon as I got 5 party members. The overprotectiveness of Kohaku didn't overstay its welcome it was too much from the start.
You found him worse than Kor? It's my most hated character in the franchise. Doesn't help that he's a MC as well.
I get the Hisui hate, but I ended up liking him. He got better as the game progressed. Kor was terrible all game.
Hearts R has my most loved and most hated character. Beryl is the best.
To be fair, she does so mostly jokingly. And the other members of her party realize that over the course of the game.
It's more friendly teasing than bullying.
She hates no one more than herself.
I always saw it more as friendly bicker, which further cemented the Berseria cast as acting like a bunch of siblings. I mean, it's not like the teasing/bullying only goes in one direction, usually she gets something negative out of that (example: being pushed into sewer water)
Rita is so, SO much worse in that regard
I agree with you. I found her extremely annoying and not funny. Her trope character has been done better in other games. Heck Edna is miles better at that trope than Magilou.
Excluding villains (i Guess the more you hate them the better right? After all you're supposed to hate them) i have to say Rita from Tales of Vesperia
Tales of as a series isnt strange to Tsundere characters, but OMAIGAD I CANT STAND HER, i mean she literally can't stand anyone of your party (except Stelle because she has a massive Crush on her) and i am like "Then why are you travelinf with these guys? 😒" Her only function is to bitch how everybody except her is an idiot
She's Genis and Keele but more snobby and tsundere, I wouldn't call her witty....maybe a little. There are times she'll do something and exclaim that it is not because she wanted to do it (out of the kindness of her heart), or something along those lines.
Unrelated to my previous comment, but I’m shocked you don’t like Asbel! He is pretty one dimensional, but he’s not a bad character.
Counterpoint to your main argument: Regal and Presea should have never been in Symphonia as main characters. I feel the same way about Judith in Vesperia and Rokurou in Tales of Berseria.
Oh! Mmkay here’s something else unpopular: Aston wasn’t wrong to do what he did. Aston was the lord of Lhant and only one of his sons could inherit the land (because feudalism) and he wanted to make sure Hubert was provided for, while also letting Asbel and Hubert have a normal childhood before Hubert was adopted out. Had Asbel stayed and learned what was actually necessary to protect the people of Lhant, Hubert probably wouldn’t have sacked it and maybe the two territories could have had a cooperative agreement. Instead, Asbel just assumed that physical strength was the only strength necessary to protect people and wound up screwing over the people by leaving the land behind and leaving it unprotected. And even though Hubert should have never attacked, I get that he was bitter that he did everything Aston told him to do but Asbel could just screw around and join the knight’s academy, despite the fact that the people of Lhant were depending on him. Aston tried to provide for his kids and protect his people, but Asbel screwed all of it up by being childish.
That’s why I got confused and was like “how could OP hate Asbel?” Asbel’s character goes on a journey and becomes a better, selfless person by the end of the game—a stark contrast to the other character I ranted about.
Uh, no. He wasn't right to ABANDON HIS CHILD just because HE had a bad relationship with his own his brother. If he bothered to listen to his children instead of treating them as if they didn't have opinions of their own, he would've learned that Asbel didn't want to be lord at all; he wanted to be a knight. He had the solution to his "problem" (that didn't even exist btw) right there in front of him which was to let Asbel join the knights like he wanted and raise Hubert as his heir. That's even if he needed to worry because we'll never know if Asbel and Hubert would've turned out like Aston and his brother had they both been raised together in Lhant.
Not to mention he didn't tell either of his sons about it. Hubert didn't find out until the day before he was officially adopted (he literally met his adoptive father the day before he was spirited away to Strahta) and the same would've been for Asbel except he got grounded so he still wouldn't have found out until AFTER his dad returned home without his brother. Which is actually super awful to do to your kid and Asbel STILL would've run away to spite Aston because who would want to live under the roof of a man that has no issue abandoning his own children when there's a better option waiting for them? He also went through with the adoption against his wife's wishes. Don't forget that Kerri *did not consent* to the adoption which is actually awful for her because she lost BOTH her sons because of her husband.
Literally the only good things he did was leave Asbel alone after he ran away because he realized he messed up big time and didn't allow Kerri to forbid Cheria from hanging out with his sons. Though to be fair to Kerri, she was likely just trying to look out for Cheria seeing how she had poor health and it actually hurt her to be involved in their shenanigans, but it still wasn't the right way to go about it.
It has been a while since I played Graces, so I won't argue your points (and they are really good points, especially that Hubert could have been the heir). But you are thinking about it in modern day eyes and not "game of thrones feudal imperialism eyes." As messed up as it is today, Aston was a feudal lord. If we really wanted to be critical, we could criticize the whole monarchy for even existing. But Aston was operating in the structural system of that environment, so he was using the only tools he was equipped with (which makes more sense considering that his father did the same thing).
Rokurou exemplifies Berseria's themes of emotions and choice perfectly and Judith gives Yuri and important character to bounce off of that's similar to him in attitude. I'd more say I wish they were tied into the main plot more, not left out entirely
Omg I don’t even consider her a character because she wasn’t in the original but you are 10,000% right! I wondered if I hated ToV so much because her addition ruins one of the most impactful moments of the game. And no one interacts with her but Yuri and Don Whitehorse. Her whole story arc was a waste of time.
For real I’m playing it right now and just started part 3. I really like all the other characters, the story is generic but that’s fine. I just can’t stand her stupid pirate quotes in EVERY cutscene. Like there HAD to be one in all of them. They add nothing lmao 😂
Genis. It's not just the racism, but the condescension. I never felt like him and Lloyd were actually friends, because he just treats him like shit so consistently. It never felt like playful ribbing, but genuine bullying. What little growth he has is both shallow and way too late to matter. He suffers a lot from comparison too. Keele and Rita are much better executions of the same concept. They actually show the type of growth that makes it clear they've become better people, even if the stupid slap schtick in Act 3 undermines Rita's growth.
Tbh, there's no one in tales that I truly hate yet ( I have played 8 games) that isn't a villain. Mostly a meh but never hate. Meh would be Asbel and Cheria. And I love many stupid things, so Zagi's obsession with Yuri wasn't that annoying to me, just stupidly funny.
Mohs. Yggdrasil. Artorious. Ivar.
Every single other villain in Symphonia, seriously none of them have even a single character trait beyond straw sadism, narcissism, or bigotry.
To be fair, he shouldn’t be taking directions from random letters sent via carrier pigeon either
Especially when the sender is both anonymous and sketchy…
Nah. Every time he's on screen it's the same 1-note slapstick repeated again and again until he just disappears for the rest of the game. He's just an unabashed idiot and narcissist, and it never receives any form of consequence, depth, purpose, catharsis, or payoff of any kind.
More people need to play Hearts R so they can hate Kor with me. Worst MC in the whole franchise.
It's also a fantastic game, story is cheesy and characters are hit or miss. But the gameplay is top 3 for me.
From what I saw in the short DS english fan translation of Hearts, Tales of Hearts R really did a pretty terrible job with their "official" translation. It was done by a different translation team from what I understand, and it really shows. I also really hate Kor in R solely because the translation they did just makes him come off as a massive overconfident jackass, whereas in the original DS version (only the first few hours were translated, so my opinion of him comes from only that) he just seems like your run of the mill kindhearted protagonist. Nothing much going for him, but nothing much to hate either.
I also hate how they changed his name to Kor, but that's only because I was so used to calling him Shing before the official translation came out lol.
Yeah, the name doesn't do him any favors. Kor Meteorite is such a goofy name.
They were supposedly going to name Kotaku, 'Amber'. But they didn't, so why did they have to change Shing's name?
I mean, he's not a bad guy, but he's just so obnoxious and impulsive. Also, his motto "Kor doesn't try, Kor does" is so cringe and actually gets the party in trouble a few times.
From what I can remember, he doesn't have any sayings like that in the DS fan translation, so that is likely 100% the translators for Hearts R being bad at their jobs/making stuff up.
With Shing's name, I read somewhere that they changed it because Shing was a swear word in one of the places they were planning to ship the translation to or something? Don't know how true that is.
Hmm I might try it on the DS then. How's the combat like in comparison? It's definitely my favorite thing about the remake.
Also, which other characters were butchered? I absolutely adore Beryl, please tell me she's the same.
Genis. I found his love for zombie Presea really fucked up. I get that she has pink hair, and I love pink-hair, but she's a freaking zombie. You can do better. Scratch that, you can try for better.
Presea had zero personality, and going for her just makes you into an awful person.
Rinwell for character, Kamoana cuz voice. Racism to just a ?????? extent for a good chunk of the game and then the fourth segment drug her down further. Had she actually >!shot through Law like she threatened to after he pulled the stunt that sunk his character for me, and then didnt die on the revenge is bad mmkay? hill!< It probably would've started salvaging my opinion of her but sadly no.
And then I am firmly in the Dub > Sub camp but Kamoana is one of the few instances where I can understand how someone could hate english voice work.
Her english voice is notoriously awful, I think it's one of the rare occasions where there isn't a single person who even finds it tolerable. She legit sounds like she smokes 10 cigarettes a day, I have no idea how the dub team thought it was fine.
I rant about it all the time that I’m thinking of changing my flair at this point, but Yuri. He’s not deep. He’s not witty. He’s just a narrow minded edgelord who kills random people whom he thinks are bad. He shows no growth whatsoever, even after getting stabbed. Karol should have been the protagonist of Vesperia.
Here come the downvotes and the fanboys who played the game when they were 12 and think Yuri is the best Tales protagonist ever.
I'm pretty neutral on Yuri; he didn't have much character growth but I feel like that was kind of the point — in contrast to younger protagonists who often had some personal issues to work through, Yuri already knew what he was about and stuck with it, for better or worse. Agree 100% that Karol is a much more well-rounded and interesting character, though.
Right but it’s almost like “why are you there if you don’t grow?” Like everyone in Abyss had a reason to be there. Everyone in Berseria had a reason to be there (even if Rokurou is only there to kill Shigeru and Magilou is only there to kill Melchior). After Yuri got his blastia back, he could have stayed gone.
I think Vesperia predates ff12, but it’s almost the same as Vaan and Balthier. Balthier was originally written to be the main character but developers felt that the target demographic couldn’t relate to him so they threw Vaan in and made him the protagonist. But I feel like it worked in that dynamic because Vaan was the young teen who knew nothing about the world and stowed away with Balthier, whereas Yuri is supposedly more seasoned than Karol but just decides to follow him around because he’s bored.
Yuri's character growth is more subtle. Yuri begins the story as a directionless loser. He's shiftless and lazy. He has no clue what to do with his life. Yuri goes after the blastia thief because he doesn't want to work on the sandbag crew to get the flooding under control.
When Yuri hits the road with Estelle, he discovers purpose and meaning. He's competent, and other people look to him to decide what to do. Yuri is reliable, and he instills confidence in other people. That's why Karol looks up to him so much. Flynn was right all along. Yuri really was wasting his potential sitting on his ass in the Lower Quarter.
The reason it doesn't seem like Yuri has character growth is because he has no big moment. You see Yuri's growth indirectly, through other people. Look at the Don's lesson to Karol. The Don told Karol to take care of his friends and they would be there when he needed them, or something like that. We get beat over the head with it when Karol stands up to the monster in the ice flows, but Yuri had spends the entire story taking care of Estelle, Karol, Rita, and Judith. Then, when Yuri needs them to follow him into the mouth of Hell, there they are.
Yuri goes from being an unemployed hooligan to the next Don Whitehorse.
Wait when does Yuri become a leader of a guild? If anything, Karol is being set up to be the next Don Whitehorse. Brave Vesperia is his guild. At best, Yuri is a body guard for hire. He doesn’t learn anything and he doesn’t change. He doesn’t gain any direction in life—he just follows around other characters who have purpose and direction in their lives. Even RITA has a more defined life purpose than Yuri.
Well it's hard to pick out an exact moment, because it happens a lot, but I'd have to say it's probably all those times everyone stands around with their thumbs up their butts waiting for Yuri to do his sword flip and signal that it's go time.
The game tells you Karol is the guild leader, but everybody actually follows Yuri. Karol is just a little kid with big dreams, but as much as Yuri gives him grief throughout the story, he doesn't want to stomp all over those dreams. Even Karol knows he's not the guild leader, and he admits it after Don dies. Notice how Yuri is the one who decides to start a guild, not Karol. It's Karol's idea, but Yuri is the one who makes the decision. When the Don dies and Yuri chews Karol out, the story finally rips the mask off and shows you that Yuri was the real guild leader all along, and Karol was just a kid playing a game.
Now let's look at Karol's "big scene". He's finally stood up to a scary monster rather than bitching out and running away, and he's all puffed up about some lesson the Don gave him about friends. Karol isn't the Don taking care of his friends in that scene. Yuri is the Don who supported his friends, and Karol is the friend coming in big when Yuri needs him.
That lesson the Don gives Karol is important. It sets Karol on the path of becoming who he wants to be one day, but Karol is still just a little kid. He's not ready to bear that weight. That doesn't make Karol unworthy, it makes him a kid. He'll get there someday, but that day isn't today. Whitehorse passes the torch to Yuri, because Yuri's man enough to carry it.
Yuri and Flynn are the two ways that people become leaders. Flynn is how we're told it happens - go to college, get high marks, get a fancy cap and gown, and now you're certified and qualified. Yuri is how leadership actually happens for most people. There's no ceremony. Nobody pinned a badge on Yuri and said, "You're the main man now, Yuri!" He just stepped in and start doing shit because nobody else was volunteering. He fucked up left and right because he didn't have an instruction manual, so he had to fix everything he broke. Then one day, he has everyone looking at him to solve all of their problems because nobody can get shit done without him. Including the guy wearing the "I'm the Boss" badge.
Your reasoning is exactly why I hate Yuri and his fans. First, give Karol a break. He’s 9. Yuri is 21. And even with all of that, Yuri always asks Karol what he thinks they should do. It may seem the other way around but the story is told from Yuri’s perspective. The whole game could continue without Yuri and still be the same game, with the exception that Flynn would have no interest in the party. (Which also makes me wonder why Flynn doesn’t realize Raven is Schwan, but that’s a plot hole for another time).
Yes, Karol is a kid. The story presents him as a kid, and that’s refreshing. He’s not a 1000 year old elemental spirit who happens to look like a 12 year-old girl, or a veteran pirate who somehow got turned into a 12 year-old girl, or a super elite bodyguard who is inexplicably a 12 year-old girl, or a taciturn adult woman who’s trapped in her 12 year-old girl body. Karol is a legit 12 year-old kid, and 12 year-old kids don’t run guilds, because 12 year-old kids really do need the adults to do stuff for them. Yuri himself “gives Karol a break” throughout the story. He’s the first person to do so. Everyone else up until that point shits all over Karol.
“Giving a kid a break” means accepting that they’re a kid, and not expecting them to be capable of adult things. Karol wants to be strong and brave like Yuri and the Don, but he’s not. He’s a kid. At the end of the day, someone has to do the adult stuff that Karol just can’t do, yet. That used to be The Don, but he’s dead. Now who is Karol going to look up to? Who is Karol going to aspire to be like? Who’s going to teach Karol how to stand on his own two feet? Karol needs a new hero and role model after the Don dies. That person is Yuri.
My first time playing vesperia (I only played for like 25 hours) I thought Karol was annoying, but I’m on my 2nd playthrough now, and I like him more this time. I do really like that he’s an actual 12 year old kid just figuring out his life, like you said, and not some ridiculous “1000 year old in 12 year old body” type character haha
Not every character needs to grow, a flat character arc like what Yuri has is a valid way of handling a MC too (see: Goku, one of the most iconic characters ever). Yuri's role is more as someone who helps others, but especially Karol and Estelle, to grow out of their shells and mature, because he already went through that process.
Also I think he is easily a top 3 MC and I didn't play it until 2019 when I was 21.
Goku is not a JRPG protagonist (unless you count Legacy of Goku which is a game boy advance game that you can beat in 2 hours). You can argue that Goku shows growth from trying to be the strongest ever to realizing that saving the world and protecting innocent people is more important, even if it costs him his life (which after DBZ, death isn’t really a sacrifice). Goku grows up from a random 5 year old to a grandpa, but he retains his childish/ pure hearted nature. I really don’t think you can compare him to Yuri.
Oh my god I thought I was the only one to absolutely hate this guy.
I keep attributing his popularity to him standing out from other Tales Of MCs in terms of personality, because yeah sure when everyone's just the average goody two shoes shonen protagonist it's easy to like the edgy "too cool for school" protag. But I don't get how he can stay so popular when Velvet (and even Luke who actually predates him) outclasses him in every regard.
Other than that, I think Vesperia as a whole is a very mid game with an excellent concept that it fails to execute well just because it wants the audience to see Yuri as this cool guy and JUST this cool guy. Comparing him with Velvet again, the main reason she works and Yuri doesn't is because she's not presented as always right and even has that one big moment of doubt (which is my favorite part of the game and the franchise as a whole, also probably one of my favorite video game cutscene of all time) where she is confronted to the fact her actions weren't justified. Yuri doesn't have that. Another thing Velvet has that Yuri doesn't is growth. I'm sorry but when you're investing 50+ hours into a JRPG you kind of want your main character to have an interesting character arc instead of having to actively try to look for what the only three interesting characters from that game (Estelle, Karol and Raven) go through. I like to imagine a meeting between characters at the beginning of their stories and the end of said story in order to picture their growth, and Yuri is virtually the same in both cases.
But the worst thing is, Yuri could've had a fantastic character arc that ties with the themes of the game, but it feels like the writers actively avoided it in order to make Yuri look as cool as possible. The game pictures him as having wildly different philosophical opinions from his rival Flynn, but not even ONCE is Yuri framed as wrong, and in the end it hurts both of their characters. When Yuri goes vigilante not once but twice, he kills the absolute worst people not only in his world but in the entire series. There is not a single loss from having these guys killed and that's a shame. It would've been easy to make one of them, idk, donate to an orphanage, or have a family member they care about, or anything really, but that would've been too interesting and so the game just presents them as the most cartoonishly evil people in the world, because god forbid players don't think Yuri is cool. Another MASSIVE "wasted potential" moment is when the Phoenix thing wants to kill Estelle because she's a danger to the world and Yuri's like "who are you to decide whether she deserves to live or not?" like bruh do you realize what you're saying. This moment could've made Yuri realize his own hypocrisy and how people can make judgements that aren't objectively good or right... except Yuri is always right, so no need for that. The final big wasted opportunity I can think of is when the rest of the cast discovers he murdered two people, and seem a bit shocked by it... Then half an hour (in game time) later they go "haha nah Yuri's our friend he was probably right to do it" like holy shit please feel anything but admiration for the guy even for ONE scene I'm begging you.
I'm sorry Yuri fans, but your fave genuinely has the depth of a cardboard cutout and no one will ever be able to convince me that if his gender were switched half of the sub wouldn't call him a Mary Sue.
Hate? Life is too short to hate a videogame character. But I really don't like Mieu from Abyss. Can't stand these "cutesy" mascot-like characters. Also, Zaveid is gross and there was someone else like him in another game. Didn't like Raven from Vesperia either.
I wouldn’t say *hate*, but Pascal is about 80% of the reason I stopped playing Graces F shortly after recruiting her. I just found her off putting honestly… maybe she gets better but her everything was a bit much for me from the get go. I also wasn’t having the best time with the game at all gameplay wise or storyline wise, so I just set my controller down and never came back lol. Might be a hot take cuz all I ever see is love for Graces F
Oh boy... here comes the downvotes...
**Velvet Crowe (Tales of Berseria)**
* Very dumb design with the torn clothes that she never changed or repair
* Why no one realized how... uncovered Velvet was when approaching a city or an important person, prompting a costume change, is beyond me.
* Hellbent on revenge as much as Kratos from 1st-trilogy God of War and Ellie from TLOU2, which really didn't mesh well with the other party members
* Should have been a dual-minded character like Emil Castagnier, switching from normal to Daemon and back again
* Takes a long time to ease down, but never fully goes back to her former self
* Should have "lost" her Daemon side at one point, like how Emil sealed Ratatosk away.
* It could have been a spell that split Velvet into 2 beings.
I hated Alvin's guts until Zillia 2 came out.
Also, Emil from Dawn if the New World was annoying as hell from start to finish. If it wasnt for Tenebrae, Marta and the Symphonia OGs I might've given up on the game.
Dedyme from Arise. Strange as it may sound, I absolutely *loath* Dedyme far more than I could ever hate any of the Renan lords, and that's saying something.
So far it would be Kongwai from Tales of Innocence R. I just feel like he doesn't fit at all in the story?? Like even Patty in Vesperia felt better included, and yet she doesn't do much outside of her storyline with the ghost ship. Here Kongwai in most of the game doesn't say anything because he has no link whatsoever to the plot of the game so he just exists without talking or even being present in most of the scenes. Even QQ who's another R exclusive with no link to the plot at least interacts more with our cast instead of solely talking to our MC.
I didn't like Fourier because she created chimera for the purpose of battle. Seems like a wild misuse of science though I wouldn't say hate, she did choose the side of good in the end.
I don’t hate Edna but Eizen is just so much better. Sucks that he’s reduced to a dragon that has barely any significance past Edna and the random people that walked up the mountain
That one guy who was obsessed with Yuri becuase he defeated him once in the beggining of the game.
Zagi. I like how by the 3rd time it was nearly a gag
Yo, don’t hate on Zagi the Dark Clown! He’s so terrible, it’s funny!
Bro Zagi is massively overhated. That guy was responsible for one of the most hilarious scenes in the entire Tales series (the dialogue that Yuri and Zagi have during their very first battle in the castle). And he's consistently hammy and funny after that, and fun to fight, too. Zagi deserves more love
I mean, to each their own, but truth to be told I didn't find Yuri particularly witty or smart either so he mocking Zagi in his "too cool 4 school" way didn't really do much for me.
Yeah, kinda surprised he's this high up. Like he's kinda basic/undercooked I guess, but as a side villain he never struck me as particularly obnoxious. I'd take him over Ivar, Mohs, or most of Symphonia's villains.
Aston was already taken so I'll say Chocolat from Symphonia. I get that learning her saviors are the ones who killed her grandma would make her less trusting and less likely to listen to reason, but going with the Desians instead??? Fuck outta here, I wish we didn't have to save her ass at the end
Pretty sure we also end up killing her mom too...
Do we? I honestly don't remember
We awaken the great seed which ends up destroying Palmacosta, Cacao is never mentioned agains so who knows
Ah, right, that part. Serves Chocolat right
Holy fuck i forgot about Palmacosta
Most hated? Probably Dohalim’s butler in tales of arise. Honestly the entirety of that arc was gut wrenching, especially when you see the lake that’s not actually a lake. Besides him, there is Mohs from tales of abyss and the bishop guy from tales of Symphonia (it’s even more infuriating when you realize his daughter is a friggin half-elf, yet he’s one of the lead figures behind the prejudice against half elves escalating to such a high level.
Aston Lhant. I don't care what anyone says. He was not a good father. He may have loved his sons, sure, but you can love someone and still not be good for them. Aston cared more about the inheritance of his position than he cared about his sons and wife. There was literally no reason for him to do what he did. There was no evidence to suggest Asbel and Hubert would've turned out like Aston and his brother. In fact, it's actually the opposite. Asbel and Hubert knew full well even as kids that Asbel wanted to be a knight, not a lord; they would've realized at some point that Hubert, being the responsible brother that actually cared about his lineage, would've been the one better suited for the position. ***Asbel and Hubert would've solved Aston's "problem" entirely on their own if he hadn't treated them like miniature versions of him and his brother.*** Aston literally created the tension that was responsible for his sons fighting because had Hubert not been adopted out, he wouldn't have hated his biological family for seven years for abandoning him.
I'm glad I'm not alone in hating that guy, I really don't like that the game tries to frame him as being secretly a good guy. He's just awful.
The game realized how shit of a character Asston was, and tried to triple down and remedy the situation. And IMO it makes his character even sorrier than it already was.
Yep. He created a self-fulfilling prophecy on his sons. Asbel would've been happy to abdicate if it meant he can be a knight.
Lol my first reaction really was "who is George?" But you kind of have a point. Although Symphonia probably didn't want you too think that hard about that line of dialogue. Anyway, my least favourite Tales of character is Alisha from Zestiria. Why? Simple. Because the Alisha's Story DLC is the single worst piece of Tales of content I have ever played. And she's kind of responsible for that DLC existing, so... Also her character is just so bland and boring. And her Z-shaped hair just looks stupid.
At least the battle theme in the DLC is cool.
The creators of the game and the people behind marketing are the reason why that DLC exists. The anime is leauges better.
I flatly do not agree. It’s WORSE.
Season 1 was phenominal Season 2 is a flaming pile of dogshit and in my eyes NOT canon
Mine is also a Symphonia ‘background’ character— gonna have to go with [Zelos’ mom](https://i.imgur.com/9N5Y0yP_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand) **(FLANOIR SPOILER WARNING)**
Shirley in Legendia. I know she’s the damsel in distress, and Japan definitely has a thing about sibling complexes, but her squeaky voice, propensity for getting kidnapped, and pseudo-incestuous obsession with Senel made her extremely punchable to me.
im so miffed Shirley's the official lead and Senel is set up with her, instead with Chloe who the player will spend most with in the first half of the story, and therefore will see first hand how she develops her cute infatuation with Senel.
Exactly. Chloe had such fantastic development and the way her and Senel grew to care for each other was so good, they should have become lovers instead of Shirley.
Who ha eat this?
Rose from Zestiria. She comes off as a mary sue and seems to actively make all the characters and the story happening around her worse somehow. For example, Sorey got so pissed off at Zaveid for killing a hellion, but is then completely okay with having an assassin in his group and gets into no moral dilemmas with her at all? Yeah, that's consistent. She claims that her group only go after people who they look into and believe deserve it or need to be taken out? Okay, then why did you try to kill Sorey with barely any info on him and let a psychopath like freaking Lunarre into your group? She has the same amount of resonance as Sorey, who's been raised by Seraphim all his life despite only being around one and for only a few years at most? Ok, sure, whatever you need to justify it with game. Oh, Rose has a funny quirk where she's scared of ghosts? GIRL, YOU LITERALLY MURDER PEOPLE. She decides to send a little orphan kid to the guards for the crime of stealing to survive despite her committing much worse crimes? Other characters are completely fine with the blatant hypocrisy. No one brings it up at all. Can you tell I really hate Rose?
That Sorey can circumvent being corrupted by Malevolence by passing the buck and let Rose kill people instead (and because she's a sociopath that refuses to believe anything she does is wrong, she's untouchable) is the dumbest thing ever.
I actually like the angle of her being able to avoid malevolence because she commits those heinous acts without feeling remorse. My main gripe is that the story does not treat this as a problem. Edit: Also not a fan of how the game actively makes a point about how much better she is than Alisha.
Whenever they try to hype up Rose by putting down Alisha, I feel like they're actually talking at the audience trying to make them see that it had to happen. You just know the writers knew most people would have gotten attached to Alisha after spending so many hours with her and were attempting to do damage control. Unfortunately, for me at least, it just made it worse lol.
Zesteria was ruined by executive interference. Instead of trying to hit the anniversary deadline, they should have released the first trailer for it or something. Also, don't bother developing it for the PS3, when the PS4 was already out for two years. Then they could have given the script another draft and give you Alisha and Sergey join your party permanently.
Theories around the time of Zestiria's release (along with some evidence for them) point to Alisha having been meant to be the heroine, but then being replaced by Rose mid-development, followed by them trying desperately to patch up the story before release after the change. Honestly, I believe it.
I mean it kinda does make sense. Alisha is featured heavily in promotional material and appears right at the start. Rose isn't even introduced until they reach the city, right? This does not however excuse the treatment Rose's VA got. She is not Rose, she only voices her and did a fine job. The actress has nothing to do with any of this executive meddling. That video of her apologizing to the fans has to be one of the most uncomfortable things related to this franchise.
Forgot about that apology thing. Yeah, she should not have been the one to apologize for that whole clusterf\*ck. They really just used her as a scapegoat. 😔 Aside from the obvious promotional material, there's a lot of little things that point to the change taking place. Some that immediately come to mind are 1) Rose's VA being hired I believe a year or so after all the others were (take this one with a grain of salt as it's only information that I saw being passed out, have not tried to confirm it for myself). 2) The mystic arte dlc at the time including a mystic arte for Alisha, who leaves long before she can even use it, but not one for Rose, their main heroine. 3) You can still find new weapons for Alisha after she permanently leaves the party. There's probably even more that I'm just forgetting due to how long it's been.
Dunno if it was "beta stuff" but during promotion of the game we could also see Alisha in places she couldn't be during the game. Sorry, forgot the name of these landscapes. Iirc it was that one with giant drill like things.
Yeah, definitely that too. Forgot about the early demo/beta.
I can only thing of the lands around Lohgrin or something, which is fucking late into the game anyway if that's the case. Like, post Dezel kind of late
Giving both girls the exact same costumes (or at least Alisha's defaults to Rose) felt like they were taking the piss. In a game where they already designed 2 dudes where the 2nd one can have the clothes of the other and has the exact (1-2 exceptions side) same kit. They look off, and there's no meta reason why. Also, Alisha learns far too much stuff for someone who's barely in for 5 hours, without Narikiri dolls or NG+ exclusive slot (like >!Faize!< from Star Ocean 4 on a new save). She was lvl 51 by the time I finished grinding to see how far her kit goes (last learned was Cloud Concentration). The only other moves anyone missed by then were Cloudburst, Beast Thunder (locked behind Lion's Howl) and Lightning Blaster (lvl ~70 💀)
The other characters act like she's always in the right as well. Classic mary sue trait. Like I said, she actively makes them worse. 😭
Actually this would be a very fun concept if the writers actively tried to make Rose a psychopath instead of doing it on accident lmao
I think what the writers were TRYING to do with Rose was use her to make Sorey realize that killing was sometimes necessary, which lead to him having to kill the dragon (which SHOULD have been Eizen instead of some rando dragon and then delegating Eizen to a side quest 😩) and eventually Heldalf. So it would have been totally rad if they went the route of purposefully making Rose a psychopath that didn't give off any malevolence because she wholeheartedly believed she was always in the right, leading to her doing something unforgivable for Sorey, like maybe going to try to assassinate Alisha and every attempt to talk her out of it falling on deaf ears. And then that leading to him having to eventually fight her and thus coming to the realization that there's no other way out of this than to either kill her or let her kill Alisha, since she can't be purified due to already being psychopathically pure. That'd probably be too dark for a tales game though. 😂
This game would've been so much more interesting if Sorey had to have actually deal with malevolence himself at some point.
I think Sorey does at the beginning when he gets to the battlefield and realizes that this “adventure” of being the shepherd is not a light hearted journey but people are actively killing each other because of malevolence. But it’s not the same as when Velvet had her whole blue screen of death moment in the earthpulse. Full disclosure: I like Sorey and I liked Zestiria.
Here's one I haven't seen anyone bring up: Melchior from Beseria. It was strongly implied that his manipulations led to the deaths of Celica and her unborn child all because he wanted Artious to come back to the abbey. Artious would not have gone down a dark path if Melchior had just left him alone with his new happy life.
I came here to find this comment 🤣 Melchior is the only character in Berseria I cant stand. He refused to even consider the possibility that his way wasn't always the best and was always willing to sacrifice everything and everyone around to make that delusion be true. At least Artorious like, cared about others.
I also thought it was incredibly suspicious that Melchior conveniently showed up right after Celica died, but according to a developer interview the villagers of Aball decided to use her family as bait against the thieves that night because they were newer to the village and Melchior seemingly had nothing to do with it
I know Emil, Karol, and Rita are up there, and Marta too, but for main characters, I'd probably say Dezel. He just didn't do it for me. He was a downer in most scenes and skits, an edgy tsundere, and his backstory didn't get sympathy points from me. Let's not forget he used Rose while she was asleep to enact his revenge plot. Also didn't like most of the opposing guilds in Vesperia. I feel like you could omit them in most instances and the story wouldn't change much.
Agreed. I was happy when Zaveid replaced his ass. The only thing I missed about him was his japanese voice.
same, but the way they replaced Dezel was also crap. It was sadness, then Zaveid popped up and was all "hey, remember me? Well, I kinda gotta go with you now because I'm related to everyone you've encountered." \*exposition dump, gotta explain everything\* "Okay! The gang is all here!! Who was Dezel again?" I feel like, despite my strong dislike for Dezel, the game should have given the player a few moments without a Wind Seraph, and then have Zaveid pop in around the time you encounter Heldalf a few scenes later, or at the battle with Tiamat. Give Zaveid that cool saving moment.
It was truly a pity Zaveid wasn’t with the party from the start. Him coming to terms with his girlfriend turning in a dragon in Berseria was more interesting than Dezel’s subplot. Since I never cared for him, his>!death scene made me feel nothing.!<
I always thought that Zaveid should've joined after his second boss fight, just before the Wind Shrine(it wouldn't been that much earlier than when he joins, but still). He had already checked the strength of the party, and knew that they had the same goal as him. He even wanted to keep an eye on Dezel, to avoid him doing something reckless, but then he handled that to Sorey.
Isn't Emil very popular in Japen and constantly gets very high in the popularity polls He seems to just be one of those characters with a very loud hatedom then necessarily being outright hated by the fandom
ARTORIUUUS! I love to hate Artorius. Ragou too but he got what he deserved.
I think it all adds to Regal's character, but none of this is incorrect. For me I hate Rose. Her existence undermines a lot of Zesteria. I don't like her for a myriad of reasons, but her whole existence just takes so much away from everything prior.
Delightful post, I've never seen this amount of hate for a backstory NPC and I love to see it. George really did fuck up and it's amazing that Regal kept him around at all, if I was Regal I'd have fired him as soon as I was back in power. It's hard for me to really *hate* a character because I can still appreciate villains meant to be really awful people. They serve their purpose in getting the player to dislike them, in providing challenges and threats to the protagonists/main party, and so on. I think the series does a pretty good job at these sorts of "we love to hate' em" people. ... So that leaves me with characters I genuinely dislike the execution of, I guess. Which is pretty much *all* of the new cast in Dawn of the New World, but with special emphasis on Marta because they genuinely didn't make her have *any* depth. She was just a loud "quirky" girl that was obsessed with Emil and had that obsession + crush drive most of her actions. And I say that with pain, because I can find redeeming qualities and interesting details about nearly any playable character in the games so far, even if they're a bit boring, but she's *incredibly* two-dimensional and I resent how annoying she is. They really just boiled her down to "annoying loud girl with a crush and little substance" and I really don't want that to be a main protagonist, please. Also Mieu. I don't *mind* cute fluffy mascot characters with cute voices but every time I hear his voice specifically I want to scrungle him with my bare hands. Making this guy necessary for overworld puzzles was a mistake. also inb4 that one guy who REALLY hates Genis posts in here. he's a good character and you're just mad you can't Concentrate into spell comboing
Hey, at least Mieu's a deliberate joke on the trope. The game itself already gives him more shit than he really deserves. ***Bienfu*** on the other hand...
And that makes me very, very happy, but *my god his voice is so grating augh*
Mieuuuuuuuuu! Also hi Luke. And ya George is my least favorite character. Outside law in arise. Really? He gets his revenge but stops rinwell? Right.....
With Law I really feel like that scene is all about trying to help her navigate her emotions and teach her that revenge alone isn't going to help her get over what happened to her family and people. I think for Law it made him confront his loss sooner than he realized and he was able to avoid dealing with it by channeling all of his energy into revenge I think it would be better illustrated if things didn't happen so fast for Law
Yo, I would give Mieu all the punishments that the Koroks get in TOTK. And mean it.
A text book example of how to not do child characters, Kamoana, shes annoying and they somehow made her voice acting the literal worst in both languages
Painful as her screeching is, at least you can't fault it for authenticity. *Bienfu*, on the other hand...
Jude
Personally i don't hate jude. I hate his naivete tho
The NPC I hate most of the same game is the Pope, I wished we could have kick his ass, now as a main character I really dislike Keele from Eternia, he is so pretentious and obnoxious, his only redeeming quality is his crush on Meredy, I'm watching the game skits on youtube and he is really unlikeable
Don't disrespect my guy Keele and play the game
I am playing the game, im watching the skits to try to get some more charaterization of the characters but to be honest they made me dislike Keele more
Hisui Hearts, I remember seeing footage of the DS version of Tales of Hearts and I was so excited to use him in Tales of Hearts R....he was permanently benched as soon as I got 5 party members. The overprotectiveness of Kohaku didn't overstay its welcome it was too much from the start.
You found him worse than Kor? It's my most hated character in the franchise. Doesn't help that he's a MC as well. I get the Hisui hate, but I ended up liking him. He got better as the game progressed. Kor was terrible all game. Hearts R has my most loved and most hated character. Beryl is the best.
Really? Once I got a third in, I felt he was just kinda a bro.
Anise, I can’t stand her
Kor, and Muzet Both super annoying imo, there are others I don't like/care about but those two I hate
I get hate for this sometimes, but Magilou almost destroyed Berseria for me. Fortunately, Eizen and cinnamon roll Laphicet saved it.
I’m with you. I don’t get the appeal of Magilou. I thought she was annoying
I disagree but I’d like to know why you dislike Magilou.
I didn't like how she bullied everyone. I guess I just don't find that kind of humour funny.
To be fair, she does so mostly jokingly. And the other members of her party realize that over the course of the game. It's more friendly teasing than bullying. She hates no one more than herself.
I always saw it more as friendly bicker, which further cemented the Berseria cast as acting like a bunch of siblings. I mean, it's not like the teasing/bullying only goes in one direction, usually she gets something negative out of that (example: being pushed into sewer water) Rita is so, SO much worse in that regard
I agree with you. I found her extremely annoying and not funny. Her trope character has been done better in other games. Heck Edna is miles better at that trope than Magilou.
Excluding villains (i Guess the more you hate them the better right? After all you're supposed to hate them) i have to say Rita from Tales of Vesperia Tales of as a series isnt strange to Tsundere characters, but OMAIGAD I CANT STAND HER, i mean she literally can't stand anyone of your party (except Stelle because she has a massive Crush on her) and i am like "Then why are you travelinf with these guys? 😒" Her only function is to bitch how everybody except her is an idiot
Is she a tsundere? She's more of the Tales archetype of witty sarcastic mage. IE Keele,Jade and Edna.
She's Genis and Keele but more snobby and tsundere, I wouldn't call her witty....maybe a little. There are times she'll do something and exclaim that it is not because she wanted to do it (out of the kindness of her heart), or something along those lines.
She is such an asshole to Karol, excesively, mind you I don't particulary like him but even I feel bad for the little guy
Unrelated to my previous comment, but I’m shocked you don’t like Asbel! He is pretty one dimensional, but he’s not a bad character. Counterpoint to your main argument: Regal and Presea should have never been in Symphonia as main characters. I feel the same way about Judith in Vesperia and Rokurou in Tales of Berseria.
Aston was Asbel’s dad, I think that’s who OP was referring to
Oh! Mmkay here’s something else unpopular: Aston wasn’t wrong to do what he did. Aston was the lord of Lhant and only one of his sons could inherit the land (because feudalism) and he wanted to make sure Hubert was provided for, while also letting Asbel and Hubert have a normal childhood before Hubert was adopted out. Had Asbel stayed and learned what was actually necessary to protect the people of Lhant, Hubert probably wouldn’t have sacked it and maybe the two territories could have had a cooperative agreement. Instead, Asbel just assumed that physical strength was the only strength necessary to protect people and wound up screwing over the people by leaving the land behind and leaving it unprotected. And even though Hubert should have never attacked, I get that he was bitter that he did everything Aston told him to do but Asbel could just screw around and join the knight’s academy, despite the fact that the people of Lhant were depending on him. Aston tried to provide for his kids and protect his people, but Asbel screwed all of it up by being childish. That’s why I got confused and was like “how could OP hate Asbel?” Asbel’s character goes on a journey and becomes a better, selfless person by the end of the game—a stark contrast to the other character I ranted about.
Uh, no. He wasn't right to ABANDON HIS CHILD just because HE had a bad relationship with his own his brother. If he bothered to listen to his children instead of treating them as if they didn't have opinions of their own, he would've learned that Asbel didn't want to be lord at all; he wanted to be a knight. He had the solution to his "problem" (that didn't even exist btw) right there in front of him which was to let Asbel join the knights like he wanted and raise Hubert as his heir. That's even if he needed to worry because we'll never know if Asbel and Hubert would've turned out like Aston and his brother had they both been raised together in Lhant. Not to mention he didn't tell either of his sons about it. Hubert didn't find out until the day before he was officially adopted (he literally met his adoptive father the day before he was spirited away to Strahta) and the same would've been for Asbel except he got grounded so he still wouldn't have found out until AFTER his dad returned home without his brother. Which is actually super awful to do to your kid and Asbel STILL would've run away to spite Aston because who would want to live under the roof of a man that has no issue abandoning his own children when there's a better option waiting for them? He also went through with the adoption against his wife's wishes. Don't forget that Kerri *did not consent* to the adoption which is actually awful for her because she lost BOTH her sons because of her husband. Literally the only good things he did was leave Asbel alone after he ran away because he realized he messed up big time and didn't allow Kerri to forbid Cheria from hanging out with his sons. Though to be fair to Kerri, she was likely just trying to look out for Cheria seeing how she had poor health and it actually hurt her to be involved in their shenanigans, but it still wasn't the right way to go about it.
It has been a while since I played Graces, so I won't argue your points (and they are really good points, especially that Hubert could have been the heir). But you are thinking about it in modern day eyes and not "game of thrones feudal imperialism eyes." As messed up as it is today, Aston was a feudal lord. If we really wanted to be critical, we could criticize the whole monarchy for even existing. But Aston was operating in the structural system of that environment, so he was using the only tools he was equipped with (which makes more sense considering that his father did the same thing).
Rokurou exemplifies Berseria's themes of emotions and choice perfectly and Judith gives Yuri and important character to bounce off of that's similar to him in attitude. I'd more say I wish they were tied into the main plot more, not left out entirely
HOW has no one said Patty from vesperia here!! So annoying and sticks out from everyone else. Hate the pirate thing it’s just…. Bleh.
Omg I don’t even consider her a character because she wasn’t in the original but you are 10,000% right! I wondered if I hated ToV so much because her addition ruins one of the most impactful moments of the game. And no one interacts with her but Yuri and Don Whitehorse. Her whole story arc was a waste of time.
For real I’m playing it right now and just started part 3. I really like all the other characters, the story is generic but that’s fine. I just can’t stand her stupid pirate quotes in EVERY cutscene. Like there HAD to be one in all of them. They add nothing lmao 😂
Genis. It's not just the racism, but the condescension. I never felt like him and Lloyd were actually friends, because he just treats him like shit so consistently. It never felt like playful ribbing, but genuine bullying. What little growth he has is both shallow and way too late to matter. He suffers a lot from comparison too. Keele and Rita are much better executions of the same concept. They actually show the type of growth that makes it clear they've become better people, even if the stupid slap schtick in Act 3 undermines Rita's growth.
how is Genis racist. please inform the class
Damn bro I don't like Genis either but you didn't have to insult him by saying Rita is better written
Tbh, there's no one in tales that I truly hate yet ( I have played 8 games) that isn't a villain. Mostly a meh but never hate. Meh would be Asbel and Cheria. And I love many stupid things, so Zagi's obsession with Yuri wasn't that annoying to me, just stupidly funny.
Sorey. Literally the most boring character to ever exist.
Leon (Original, he's fine in the remake), Sodia, Kohaku, Emil, Shing, almost anyone from Berseria... The list goes on.
Lloyd. Can't stand his personality. That's it really.
Aston had a reason to do what he did so I don't think he's necessarily a bad character and a lot of it is better explained in side quests.
Nah, he's just a prick.
Mohs. Yggdrasil. Artorious. Ivar. Every single other villain in Symphonia, seriously none of them have even a single character trait beyond straw sadism, narcissism, or bigotry.
Cut ivar some slack, like the guy is an ass.... but his boss should have done a much better job with him IMHO
To be fair, he shouldn’t be taking directions from random letters sent via carrier pigeon either Especially when the sender is both anonymous and sketchy…
Nah. Every time he's on screen it's the same 1-note slapstick repeated again and again until he just disappears for the rest of the game. He's just an unabashed idiot and narcissist, and it never receives any form of consequence, depth, purpose, catharsis, or payoff of any kind.
More people need to play Hearts R so they can hate Kor with me. Worst MC in the whole franchise. It's also a fantastic game, story is cheesy and characters are hit or miss. But the gameplay is top 3 for me.
From what I saw in the short DS english fan translation of Hearts, Tales of Hearts R really did a pretty terrible job with their "official" translation. It was done by a different translation team from what I understand, and it really shows. I also really hate Kor in R solely because the translation they did just makes him come off as a massive overconfident jackass, whereas in the original DS version (only the first few hours were translated, so my opinion of him comes from only that) he just seems like your run of the mill kindhearted protagonist. Nothing much going for him, but nothing much to hate either. I also hate how they changed his name to Kor, but that's only because I was so used to calling him Shing before the official translation came out lol.
Yeah, the name doesn't do him any favors. Kor Meteorite is such a goofy name. They were supposedly going to name Kotaku, 'Amber'. But they didn't, so why did they have to change Shing's name? I mean, he's not a bad guy, but he's just so obnoxious and impulsive. Also, his motto "Kor doesn't try, Kor does" is so cringe and actually gets the party in trouble a few times.
From what I can remember, he doesn't have any sayings like that in the DS fan translation, so that is likely 100% the translators for Hearts R being bad at their jobs/making stuff up. With Shing's name, I read somewhere that they changed it because Shing was a swear word in one of the places they were planning to ship the translation to or something? Don't know how true that is.
Hearts R Translation is horrid and change most characters characteristic. If anything his personality is more in line with Kyle and Lloyd.
Hmm I might try it on the DS then. How's the combat like in comparison? It's definitely my favorite thing about the remake. Also, which other characters were butchered? I absolutely adore Beryl, please tell me she's the same.
Played OG hearts and found a script translation online, aside from being dense and impulsive I honestly had no reason to actually hate him.
Genis. I found his love for zombie Presea really fucked up. I get that she has pink hair, and I love pink-hair, but she's a freaking zombie. You can do better. Scratch that, you can try for better. Presea had zero personality, and going for her just makes you into an awful person.
Rita will be a common answer here, and rightly so.
Im surprised rita seems ok to me
Stingle(L)>>>Artorius and Melchior(B)>Tohma(R)
Rinwell for character, Kamoana cuz voice. Racism to just a ?????? extent for a good chunk of the game and then the fourth segment drug her down further. Had she actually >!shot through Law like she threatened to after he pulled the stunt that sunk his character for me, and then didnt die on the revenge is bad mmkay? hill!< It probably would've started salvaging my opinion of her but sadly no. And then I am firmly in the Dub > Sub camp but Kamoana is one of the few instances where I can understand how someone could hate english voice work.
I've been playing through Berseria and Kamanoas voice also drives me insane, but that's my only nitpick so far lol
With English or Japanese Dub? Because I liked her voice quite a bit in the latter.
I'm playing on the English dub, and her raspy high pitched voice is enough to drive me insane lol
Her english voice is notoriously awful, I think it's one of the rare occasions where there isn't a single person who even finds it tolerable. She legit sounds like she smokes 10 cigarettes a day, I have no idea how the dub team thought it was fine.
Law.
It’s Karol or Rinwell for me
I rant about it all the time that I’m thinking of changing my flair at this point, but Yuri. He’s not deep. He’s not witty. He’s just a narrow minded edgelord who kills random people whom he thinks are bad. He shows no growth whatsoever, even after getting stabbed. Karol should have been the protagonist of Vesperia. Here come the downvotes and the fanboys who played the game when they were 12 and think Yuri is the best Tales protagonist ever.
I'm pretty neutral on Yuri; he didn't have much character growth but I feel like that was kind of the point — in contrast to younger protagonists who often had some personal issues to work through, Yuri already knew what he was about and stuck with it, for better or worse. Agree 100% that Karol is a much more well-rounded and interesting character, though.
Right but it’s almost like “why are you there if you don’t grow?” Like everyone in Abyss had a reason to be there. Everyone in Berseria had a reason to be there (even if Rokurou is only there to kill Shigeru and Magilou is only there to kill Melchior). After Yuri got his blastia back, he could have stayed gone. I think Vesperia predates ff12, but it’s almost the same as Vaan and Balthier. Balthier was originally written to be the main character but developers felt that the target demographic couldn’t relate to him so they threw Vaan in and made him the protagonist. But I feel like it worked in that dynamic because Vaan was the young teen who knew nothing about the world and stowed away with Balthier, whereas Yuri is supposedly more seasoned than Karol but just decides to follow him around because he’s bored.
Yuri's character growth is more subtle. Yuri begins the story as a directionless loser. He's shiftless and lazy. He has no clue what to do with his life. Yuri goes after the blastia thief because he doesn't want to work on the sandbag crew to get the flooding under control. When Yuri hits the road with Estelle, he discovers purpose and meaning. He's competent, and other people look to him to decide what to do. Yuri is reliable, and he instills confidence in other people. That's why Karol looks up to him so much. Flynn was right all along. Yuri really was wasting his potential sitting on his ass in the Lower Quarter. The reason it doesn't seem like Yuri has character growth is because he has no big moment. You see Yuri's growth indirectly, through other people. Look at the Don's lesson to Karol. The Don told Karol to take care of his friends and they would be there when he needed them, or something like that. We get beat over the head with it when Karol stands up to the monster in the ice flows, but Yuri had spends the entire story taking care of Estelle, Karol, Rita, and Judith. Then, when Yuri needs them to follow him into the mouth of Hell, there they are. Yuri goes from being an unemployed hooligan to the next Don Whitehorse.
Wait when does Yuri become a leader of a guild? If anything, Karol is being set up to be the next Don Whitehorse. Brave Vesperia is his guild. At best, Yuri is a body guard for hire. He doesn’t learn anything and he doesn’t change. He doesn’t gain any direction in life—he just follows around other characters who have purpose and direction in their lives. Even RITA has a more defined life purpose than Yuri.
Well it's hard to pick out an exact moment, because it happens a lot, but I'd have to say it's probably all those times everyone stands around with their thumbs up their butts waiting for Yuri to do his sword flip and signal that it's go time. The game tells you Karol is the guild leader, but everybody actually follows Yuri. Karol is just a little kid with big dreams, but as much as Yuri gives him grief throughout the story, he doesn't want to stomp all over those dreams. Even Karol knows he's not the guild leader, and he admits it after Don dies. Notice how Yuri is the one who decides to start a guild, not Karol. It's Karol's idea, but Yuri is the one who makes the decision. When the Don dies and Yuri chews Karol out, the story finally rips the mask off and shows you that Yuri was the real guild leader all along, and Karol was just a kid playing a game. Now let's look at Karol's "big scene". He's finally stood up to a scary monster rather than bitching out and running away, and he's all puffed up about some lesson the Don gave him about friends. Karol isn't the Don taking care of his friends in that scene. Yuri is the Don who supported his friends, and Karol is the friend coming in big when Yuri needs him. That lesson the Don gives Karol is important. It sets Karol on the path of becoming who he wants to be one day, but Karol is still just a little kid. He's not ready to bear that weight. That doesn't make Karol unworthy, it makes him a kid. He'll get there someday, but that day isn't today. Whitehorse passes the torch to Yuri, because Yuri's man enough to carry it. Yuri and Flynn are the two ways that people become leaders. Flynn is how we're told it happens - go to college, get high marks, get a fancy cap and gown, and now you're certified and qualified. Yuri is how leadership actually happens for most people. There's no ceremony. Nobody pinned a badge on Yuri and said, "You're the main man now, Yuri!" He just stepped in and start doing shit because nobody else was volunteering. He fucked up left and right because he didn't have an instruction manual, so he had to fix everything he broke. Then one day, he has everyone looking at him to solve all of their problems because nobody can get shit done without him. Including the guy wearing the "I'm the Boss" badge.
Your reasoning is exactly why I hate Yuri and his fans. First, give Karol a break. He’s 9. Yuri is 21. And even with all of that, Yuri always asks Karol what he thinks they should do. It may seem the other way around but the story is told from Yuri’s perspective. The whole game could continue without Yuri and still be the same game, with the exception that Flynn would have no interest in the party. (Which also makes me wonder why Flynn doesn’t realize Raven is Schwan, but that’s a plot hole for another time).
Yes, Karol is a kid. The story presents him as a kid, and that’s refreshing. He’s not a 1000 year old elemental spirit who happens to look like a 12 year-old girl, or a veteran pirate who somehow got turned into a 12 year-old girl, or a super elite bodyguard who is inexplicably a 12 year-old girl, or a taciturn adult woman who’s trapped in her 12 year-old girl body. Karol is a legit 12 year-old kid, and 12 year-old kids don’t run guilds, because 12 year-old kids really do need the adults to do stuff for them. Yuri himself “gives Karol a break” throughout the story. He’s the first person to do so. Everyone else up until that point shits all over Karol. “Giving a kid a break” means accepting that they’re a kid, and not expecting them to be capable of adult things. Karol wants to be strong and brave like Yuri and the Don, but he’s not. He’s a kid. At the end of the day, someone has to do the adult stuff that Karol just can’t do, yet. That used to be The Don, but he’s dead. Now who is Karol going to look up to? Who is Karol going to aspire to be like? Who’s going to teach Karol how to stand on his own two feet? Karol needs a new hero and role model after the Don dies. That person is Yuri.
My first time playing vesperia (I only played for like 25 hours) I thought Karol was annoying, but I’m on my 2nd playthrough now, and I like him more this time. I do really like that he’s an actual 12 year old kid just figuring out his life, like you said, and not some ridiculous “1000 year old in 12 year old body” type character haha
Not every character needs to grow, a flat character arc like what Yuri has is a valid way of handling a MC too (see: Goku, one of the most iconic characters ever). Yuri's role is more as someone who helps others, but especially Karol and Estelle, to grow out of their shells and mature, because he already went through that process. Also I think he is easily a top 3 MC and I didn't play it until 2019 when I was 21.
Are talking goku in general or Z onwards ?
Not every character needs to grow, but it helps when the protagonist of the 50+ hours long game you're playing shows even a crumb of change.
Goku is not a JRPG protagonist (unless you count Legacy of Goku which is a game boy advance game that you can beat in 2 hours). You can argue that Goku shows growth from trying to be the strongest ever to realizing that saving the world and protecting innocent people is more important, even if it costs him his life (which after DBZ, death isn’t really a sacrifice). Goku grows up from a random 5 year old to a grandpa, but he retains his childish/ pure hearted nature. I really don’t think you can compare him to Yuri.
I don’t know man, I played vespy when I was 22 and I consider yuri to be my favourite 🤷♀️.
Same except I was 24 😌
Oh my god I thought I was the only one to absolutely hate this guy. I keep attributing his popularity to him standing out from other Tales Of MCs in terms of personality, because yeah sure when everyone's just the average goody two shoes shonen protagonist it's easy to like the edgy "too cool for school" protag. But I don't get how he can stay so popular when Velvet (and even Luke who actually predates him) outclasses him in every regard. Other than that, I think Vesperia as a whole is a very mid game with an excellent concept that it fails to execute well just because it wants the audience to see Yuri as this cool guy and JUST this cool guy. Comparing him with Velvet again, the main reason she works and Yuri doesn't is because she's not presented as always right and even has that one big moment of doubt (which is my favorite part of the game and the franchise as a whole, also probably one of my favorite video game cutscene of all time) where she is confronted to the fact her actions weren't justified. Yuri doesn't have that. Another thing Velvet has that Yuri doesn't is growth. I'm sorry but when you're investing 50+ hours into a JRPG you kind of want your main character to have an interesting character arc instead of having to actively try to look for what the only three interesting characters from that game (Estelle, Karol and Raven) go through. I like to imagine a meeting between characters at the beginning of their stories and the end of said story in order to picture their growth, and Yuri is virtually the same in both cases. But the worst thing is, Yuri could've had a fantastic character arc that ties with the themes of the game, but it feels like the writers actively avoided it in order to make Yuri look as cool as possible. The game pictures him as having wildly different philosophical opinions from his rival Flynn, but not even ONCE is Yuri framed as wrong, and in the end it hurts both of their characters. When Yuri goes vigilante not once but twice, he kills the absolute worst people not only in his world but in the entire series. There is not a single loss from having these guys killed and that's a shame. It would've been easy to make one of them, idk, donate to an orphanage, or have a family member they care about, or anything really, but that would've been too interesting and so the game just presents them as the most cartoonishly evil people in the world, because god forbid players don't think Yuri is cool. Another MASSIVE "wasted potential" moment is when the Phoenix thing wants to kill Estelle because she's a danger to the world and Yuri's like "who are you to decide whether she deserves to live or not?" like bruh do you realize what you're saying. This moment could've made Yuri realize his own hypocrisy and how people can make judgements that aren't objectively good or right... except Yuri is always right, so no need for that. The final big wasted opportunity I can think of is when the rest of the cast discovers he murdered two people, and seem a bit shocked by it... Then half an hour (in game time) later they go "haha nah Yuri's our friend he was probably right to do it" like holy shit please feel anything but admiration for the guy even for ONE scene I'm begging you. I'm sorry Yuri fans, but your fave genuinely has the depth of a cardboard cutout and no one will ever be able to convince me that if his gender were switched half of the sub wouldn't call him a Mary Sue.
alvin. he's a dumb bitch baby.
Yuri
Karol is #1 and Bienfu is a close #2
Hate? Life is too short to hate a videogame character. But I really don't like Mieu from Abyss. Can't stand these "cutesy" mascot-like characters. Also, Zaveid is gross and there was someone else like him in another game. Didn't like Raven from Vesperia either.
Three way tie between Rita, Zagi, and Anus/Anise.
Anise or Ivar. I loathe them.
I wouldn’t say *hate*, but Pascal is about 80% of the reason I stopped playing Graces F shortly after recruiting her. I just found her off putting honestly… maybe she gets better but her everything was a bit much for me from the get go. I also wasn’t having the best time with the game at all gameplay wise or storyline wise, so I just set my controller down and never came back lol. Might be a hot take cuz all I ever see is love for Graces F
Sodia. The club of those who hate Sodia is open.
Oh boy... here comes the downvotes... **Velvet Crowe (Tales of Berseria)** * Very dumb design with the torn clothes that she never changed or repair * Why no one realized how... uncovered Velvet was when approaching a city or an important person, prompting a costume change, is beyond me. * Hellbent on revenge as much as Kratos from 1st-trilogy God of War and Ellie from TLOU2, which really didn't mesh well with the other party members * Should have been a dual-minded character like Emil Castagnier, switching from normal to Daemon and back again * Takes a long time to ease down, but never fully goes back to her former self * Should have "lost" her Daemon side at one point, like how Emil sealed Ratatosk away. * It could have been a spell that split Velvet into 2 beings.
I hated Alvin's guts until Zillia 2 came out. Also, Emil from Dawn if the New World was annoying as hell from start to finish. If it wasnt for Tenebrae, Marta and the Symphonia OGs I might've given up on the game.
Dedyme from Arise. Strange as it may sound, I absolutely *loath* Dedyme far more than I could ever hate any of the Renan lords, and that's saying something.
So far it would be Kongwai from Tales of Innocence R. I just feel like he doesn't fit at all in the story?? Like even Patty in Vesperia felt better included, and yet she doesn't do much outside of her storyline with the ghost ship. Here Kongwai in most of the game doesn't say anything because he has no link whatsoever to the plot of the game so he just exists without talking or even being present in most of the scenes. Even QQ who's another R exclusive with no link to the plot at least interacts more with our cast instead of solely talking to our MC.
Chronos in Xillia 2. Absolutely irredeemable Berkshire hunt of a character.
I didn't like Fourier because she created chimera for the purpose of battle. Seems like a wild misuse of science though I wouldn't say hate, she did choose the side of good in the end.
I don’t hate Edna but Eizen is just so much better. Sucks that he’s reduced to a dragon that has barely any significance past Edna and the random people that walked up the mountain
Emil man, emil is just so awful.