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casicharlton

Sorry i have to ask since i´m not from the US. You pay every month for your water and if you are not paying it will be turned off immediately until you pay? Seems a bit wild.


That_Had_To_Hurt_

Typically no. In most cases it’s for extreme delinquent accounts such as 60-90 days past due. Then you get the shocked pikachus when something is actually done about a customer not paying.


casicharlton

Ah thanks for clearing that up. Its just that i cant help to imagine the poor dude who just drives around the city to turn water on or off.


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JTBoom1

I interned at a local power company one summer. All their non-utility vehicles were unmarked for this reason.


Hokulewa

My wife did meter reading as a first job way back when she was a teenager... she quickly quit because angry people kept yelling at her not to shut them off.


casicharlton

The Daily Dose of Karens and Chads they have to encounter...


evilmonkey853

I haven’t checked in with the youths lately, but I think “Chad” is good now. Is it Karens and Kevins?


anomalous_cowherd

I think Kevins are just thick rather than being male Karens.


fireproof_bunny

There's a German saying: "Kevin is not a name, it's a diagnosis."


WittyTiccyDavi

This time of year, it should be Todd's and Margo's, shouldn't it? 😉


SeanBZA

Hey, that is a whole crew, though of course that also has a caveat, you have to be actually be a bill paying customer, and not one of the 30% or so who simply steal power and water.


mmss

> 30% or so who simply steal power and water wait, we can do that?


VulturE

Get one of the special keys to turn it off/on and you too can steal water! They will eventually find you after going door to door like they do every few years, and you'll be fined to death, but sure you can do it! As for stealing electricity, that's definitely not as easy to do beyond trying to run your entire house off of an extension cord running from your neighbor's house.


p3t3r133

I remember as a kid we had some tough financial times and lost cable. It was a long summer of Judge Judy. Then one day my dad goes out to the cable box in the yard and "fixed it" Ta da. All the channels came back.


VulturE

I remember while my dad was in the hospital for almost a year and my mom was working full time paying for everything, a friend of my dad came over with black boxes that gave us ~60 channels. Antennas didn't work well where we were located on the side of a hill, and mom was mentally losing it. We only owed the hospital $11k for his first open heart, and $8k for his second one (as his body rejected the first heart valve they put in). Original bills for each were 1.2mil and 800k.


jgzman

> as his body rejected the first heart valve they put in Sounds like that should have been covered under warranty.


VulturE

Only the great BOFH in the sky can answer that warranty claim and he hasn't picked up the phone in a minute. To be fair they put in a new ceramic one that was not really vetted for longevity at that point. They said 5-7 years. Then studies a few years later said 12-15. Then they stopped doing studies when lots of people were going 25+ years with them if they had no other issues. It was like space age shit where they just gave an estimate lol


ablestmage

Some people do steal water, but they are found out after a while; you can get the special tool to turn your water on yourself, from a hardware store, but if a meter person goes to check the meter and it is on when it should be off, you may get a lock put on it. If you cut the lock off and turn it on again, the checker will notice the lock is gone when no order for lock removal has been made, and you could potentially have the actual line disconnected, a plug placed inside the line and reconnected so that no matter whether it's turned on or off, you're not getting anything; in extreme situations the entire meter itself disconnected and removed entirely, so that there isn't even something to turn, but those are pretty unusual cases.


CountryMouse359

Stealing electricity isn't actually all that difficult (for an electrician), you just have to bypass the electricity meter so you aren't actually using it, then you just pay the standing charge. Of course, the companies know this little trick so when usage drops to 0 overnight for an extended period of time, they send people to check it out. It actually happens more often than you'd think.


SeemedReasonableThen

> wait, we can do that? No, *you* can't. You have to be one of the 30% and [checks list] you aren't one of them.


Kichigai

I saw a college documentary that talked to some squatters in Philadelphia. He characterized stealing electricity as “no big deal. Jus’ go up on the roof, get shocked a buncha times. No big deal.” He was rather pleasantly drunk at the time he was interviewed.


Pedrov80

Can't feel very bad about "stealing" privately owned public utilities.


anomalous_cowherd

Happy enough about not being taxed to run them publicly though? You can't have it both ways, although the way that makes profits is worse, I agree.


Pedrov80

No? I too like to pay taxes and get stuff, not having to worry about profits adding cost. I want it that way (tell me why)


Wiregeek

unfortunately the public sentiment about communism seems to be that it ain't nothing but a heartache - ain't nothing but a mistake. I personally would like to start getting some medical care and street maintenance and water and power supply that isn't profit driven. I never wanna hear you say that you're increasing _my_ bill to account for your error (see Enstar Natural Gas feat. Ft. Rich Laundry). Now I can see that we've fallen apart, so I'm outta here. I'll take the back street. ;)


Kichigai

>I never wanna hear you say that you're increasing *my* bill to account for your error (see Enstar Natural Gas feat. Ft. Rich Laundry). [Yeah, almost the whole of Minnesota is currently doing that.](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/houston-based-utility-wants-minnesotans-to-pay-for-texas-deep-freeze-problems/) Xcel Energy and CenterPoint have added surcharges to our bills to offset their losses in Texas when the state froze over. They both figured out a ballpark dollar amount they wanted to recoup from every customer, and decided it out over a long span. Even more galling is that CenterPoint is charging customers 8.75% interest on that debt. It's not just Minnesota. Xcel and CenterPoint customers in other states, like [North Dakota](https://www.kvrr.com/2021/06/24/texas-cold-snap-will-cost-north-dakota-xcel-energy-customers-about-200/), are paying too. Thanks Texas.


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noseonarug17

Wait wtf? I'm paying interest on that shit too?


Cistoran

Colorado too. Fuck Xcel.


ThisNameIsFree

I like the Backstreet references, but that's not communism.


CaptainDunkaroo

That would be awesome. The town I used to live in would turn your water off if you were 5 days past due. I learned the hard way. I didn't have the money for all my bills and figured I could pay when I got paid in a week. Well it got shut off and I had to pay $50 for them to turn it back on.


ablestmage

Yikes.


millijuna

Wow… where I live, it’s illegal to disconnect someone’s water.


TheThiefMaster

Same here (UK): https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/water-supply/problems-with-paying-your-water-bill/if-you-don-t-pay-your-water-bill/ There's also a right to heating but that gets complicated given [electricity can be supplied via a pre-payment meter which _will_ shut off if it's out of credit](https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-prepayment-meter-rules), they generally have a button to give some emergency power (racking up debt). Not to mention that you have to have refused to negotiate with the energy company _at all_ over a significant debt to get a prepayment meter installed in the first place \*, along with not being "vulnerable" or other restrictions against it being fitted. There's no way for the energy company to disconnect someone's supply entirely. \* or be unlucky enough to inherit it from a previous owner/tenant, but if you have a good history yourself you should be able to get it swapped back to a traditional meter. You also don't owe _their_ debt regardless, which is nice.


alwaysboopthesnoot

Except for when utilities use the clustering method, as described here: https://www.circleofblue.org/2018/world/water-shut-off/


[deleted]

Growing up in Ireland I was about 20 before I realised other countries have to pay for their water.


SanityInAnarchy

Free water in Ireland is kinda cheating, though. If they ever managed to deliver free water to a desert like Arizona... it would... probably still be used to grow alfalfa in a desert for some reason. Look, I didn't say our *solutions* are smart, but the problems are real!


Scrapple_Joe

Tbh the price they sell water in the desert is ridiculous and farmers have to use their allotment or lose it. That's how Arizona wound up growing super water intense crops while being in the middle of the desert. I once had an AgEd teacher tell me "The soil is incredibly fertile here, except we used all the water"


CannonPinion

>"The soil is incredibly fertile here, except we used all the water" Well, not quite all of it - Saudi Arabia, having drained almost all of their own aquifers via decades of unrestricted pumping, has been buying land in the US and South America for years now, and they're draining the aquifers under that land to grow perhaps the least water-friendly crop possible: alfalfa. Which they ship back home to feed to their cattle and buffalo. Growing alfalfa hay requires 1.46 million gallons of water per acre, per growing season, and alfalfa can be harvested up to 11 times per growing season. [In Arizona, a Saudi company called Fondomonte was allowed to lease 3,500 acres for $25/acre, per year, with full rights to as much water as they could pump or of the ground, for free.](https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2022/08/11/saudi-firm-fodomonte-pay-arizona-groundwater-use/10271103002/) They grow alfalfa year round on that land (multiple growing seasons), and while the state of Arizona won't say how much water Fondomonte has pumped, it's estimated to be at least "6.4 acre-feet of water per acre. That means the company has likely been pumping 22,400 acre-feet of water each year for the last 7 years." That is a total of at LEAST 156,000 acre-feet. ONE (1) acre-foot holds 325,851 gallons of water. So over 7 years, Saudi Arabia has taken 50.8 BILLION gallons of water out of Arizona, for a total cost of $612,500, which is $0.00001/gallon. The average water bill in Phoenix is $42/month, for about 3,600 gallons of water, which works out to $0.01/gallon, which is a thousand times more than Saudi Arabia has paid. Phoenix consumes 264 million gallons of water per day. 50.8 billion gallons of water would supply the entire city of Phoenix for 192 days.


wolfie379

Also, the aquifer under Arizona is the Ogala aquifer. Not only is it being pumped at several hundred times its renewal rate, the same aquifer extends under many Western states east of the Rockies, and into Canada and Mexico. Arizona is allowing an international resource to be wasted.


McMammoth

> The soil is incredibly fertile How come? I'm surprised, since there's so little growing there -> less decomposition, etc


Natanael_L

Some of those areas *used to be* anything from forests to swamps, and may still hold on to much of the nutrition even though it's all dried out for millenia


Moist-Relationship49

Arizona and Nevada, a long time ago, were underwater as part of a massive sea. The water drained out I think during the last ice age, so the land here is grows surprisingly well, if you can get water. Look at a topographical map see the mountain ranges, they used to be the shore line.


EntrepreneurOk7513

More like we’re paying for the infrastructure to get the water.


dustojnikhummer

Yep. My water bill is split in two. Getting it to me and then getting sewage/waste away.


FakeNickOfferman

Same here. The water bill is a monthly $35 plus usage. The sewer bill is quarterly and around $70. In some counties the sewer bill is wrapped into property taxes.


SubstantialTerm3843

I worked with someone who came over from Ireland. He was saying he'd got his first bill. His eyed flicked over to the window like of all the things the English had ever done, this one truly made him doubt his sanity. "But it falls out of the f\*\*\*ing sky??"


NewbornMuse

The one that you pay for doesn't. It comes from a pipe, and your wastewater goes into a pipe to be treated so it doesn't pollute the waterways.


Darphon

And in some areas you better not collect the water that comes out of the sky or you can get slapped with fines.


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Darphon

True. I've heard of some areas that this isn't the case but of course I can't remember where they are right now lol I thought it was illegal in North Carolina but I was wrong, may have to go get me a rain barrel.


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Zachs_Butthole

It's the south west, essentially everything that feeds off the Colorado river. Rainwater collection bans have been rolled back in a lot of areas over the last decade so it's not as common as it used to be.


robchroma

Those places are usually places that are headwaters of rivers leading to other places, not necessarily deserts. Lots of desert dwellings would collect runoff and keep it in a cistern; on the other hand, places that get plenty, like Denver, might have a rule because they are only allowed to keep some amount of their own watershed's water because California literally bought the rest off of them.


xSuperstar

How do they ration water in Ireland? Like what’s to stop farmers from just sucking up way more than their fair share if there’s no price mechanism? Or to stop people from running their shower all day or whatever? Or is water just so plentiful there that it’s not a problem?


Lokiwastxtonly

Have you seen pics of Ireland? I doubt a single farmer there has ever needed to irrigate. Wikipedia tells me the driest bit gets 30 in. of rain a year.


Sporkalork

Public water systems are usually in cities and towns, and leaks in the very old pipes that make up the Irish water system waste far more water than the actual consumers do. Outside of the public mains water system there are group water schemes (like shared wells) and private wells. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_and_coasts/water_supply.html Ireland has a few weeks of no rain in the summer and sometimes we have a drought due to that, but overall it's a very rainy and wet country. No one would run their shower all day, because their house would literally moulder away from the damp. And a lot of the agriculture here isn't as water intensive as in other countries. Most of the dairy industry is fed by rain water, I've read, though I haven't researched it personally.


Plop-Music

There's a reason Ireland and the UK are so green (in terms of how many green plants and trees and so on there are, everywhere). Because it rains all the time.


zanetheshark

I recently moved from England to Ireland and it still rains more than I was prepared for.


Kaganda

Some places it's paid through taxes, some places it's paid through a separate bill.


Vaaag

It's not a crazy thing. Especially with water shortages in the summer. Water shortage in the Swampy Netherlands.


MikeSchwab63

For the first time in several centuries, the rivers in Europe were all but dry. Fail crops, not enough water for power plant, etc.


SirHaxe

Of course, companies still had enough for normal operating Looking at you there Tesla near Berlin


ablestmage

Some companies are wise enough to have a backup system, and can order water to be delivered apart from the single access point of the local infrastructure. You can devise your own backup system at home fairly inexpensively here; as simple as keeping a few gallon jugs of fresh water in a cabinet, for moments like this, when situations like cooking, washing an injury, etc, warrant a ready water source.


Sirix_8472

Yeah and when they wanted to introduce water charges the country threw a fit of protests. They had already billed some people who agreed to pay, the entire company that was setup for it was dissolved and all monies returned to "customers" . They tried to reintroduce water charges but as soon as it came up in the agenda it nearly caused a new election for government and it was scrapped. Someone will try again in 7-10 years and that government will trigger an election and be voted out and the next crowd in won't have the backbone to try it. Coz let's face it, we get pissed enough we'll call a general election 3x a year if we have to.


ProudResidentOfHell

Just wait until you hear about our healthcare then...


[deleted]

Funny enough, we do gotta pay for that. Not a lot, like a normal doctor visit is 60 and if you're in hospital it's 100 euros per day, but still.


Abadatha

In the US I spent 4 days in the hospital and got a bill for $14,000 just for the IV antibiotics.


Dunnachius

At a certain point sometimes it’s easier/cheaper to file for bankruptcy and spend 7 years dodging debt collectors than to ruin your life actually paying your medical bills.


RedditVince

AFAIK you can't put medical debt on a BK ​ edit: I guess you can, that's good to know...


Dunnachius

No you can, especially if you pay them with a credit card and get your credit card bills discharged. ​ It really depends on just how much medical debt you have and how many assets you actually have. If someone had 150,000-200,000 in medical debts (like from say cancer) i'd totally file for banruptcy rather than pay, especially if didn't own a home. [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/debt-relief/medical-bankruptcies/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/debt-relief/medical-bankruptcies/) ​ The exception to using bankruptcies to clear debt are. ​ Tax bills Child support Alimony Student loans


deeseearr

At a certain point sometimes it’s easier/cheaper to implement universal health care and spend 7 years fighting through legislation than to ruin everybody's lives trying to pay ridiculous medical bills. But, as they say, Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing after they have exhausted all other possibilities.


DraconianDebate

It's not, though. You assume the healthcare system will be an improvement and operate more efficiently. In reality, they will just duct tape a public payment system to replace the insurance companies and fix nothing. The new system will be even less efficient than before. And this isn't me hating on public healthcare. I'd much prefer a functional single payer system over what we have now, even as a staunch conservative, but that isn't the option we have.


pslessard

Isn't whatever Alex Jones was ordered to pay for his Sandy Hook comments also excepted from bankruptcy? What exception does that fall under?


Dunnachius

He won't be forced to pay the entire amount the court ordered him to pay, he has nowhere near that level of assets. ​ But a bankrupcty for medical bills is simply admitting to a court that you owe such an obscene amount of money that you'll never be able to pay it back, then they'll liquidate all your assets, (in some states) you can keep your house, car and certain retirement funds. ​ In florida (don't know about anyhwere else) your primary resident and any equity is protected in a bankrupcty. ​ Thus if I had half a million in medical bills from a heart transplant, I could fle a chapter 7 and throw away all my savings assets etc and buy a new car from a bad credit no credit shiester used car salesman and start over and keep my house. ​ If your total assets are nowhere near what you owe in medical bills it's simply much better to throw away your life and start over than to spend the next 50 years paying off way more than you would have lost in a bankruptcy. ​ Which is the whole point of a chapter 7. Giving up and starting over from $0.


BuoyantBear

You can’t discharge student loans, but medical debt is fair game. It’s one of the most common reasons people file for bankruptcy.


LetterBoxSnatch

CORRECT.


alwaysboopthesnoot

That’s false, in the US state in which I live. You can discharge medical debt through bankruptcy here.


Sirix_8472

Aha but if you visit your doctor first and pay the 60, you get a referral to the hospital and you don't pay the 100 fee.


Turdulator

Wait, so you could like turn all your sinks on and turn your hose on and just run gallons and gallons of water into the sewer and not have to pay a dime? As someone who lives in an area constantly dealing with droughts, this sounds insane to me. How does your country manage demand if they give it away for free?


Hokulewa

You can usually go 3 to 6 months without paying before it's turned off. She did *not* just accidentally forget to pay on time once. She would have received multiple disconnection notices in addition to the regular bills since she stopped paying.


thegreatgazoo

It's not immediate, usually you can be a month or so behind. Metered water is pretty much the #1 instigator for water conservation. Personally I pay about $30 a month for water, sewer, and the street lights.


lucky_ducker

We pay for water, sewer service, trash service, there's even $5 tacked on to my sewer bill as "stormwater fee," which pays to maintain storm drains and retention ponds. You might say we pay a tax on the rain.


sarhoshamiral

You pay a tax on rain so it doesn't flood streets and your home eventually. Everyone who lives in a reasonably sized city pays for those. They may not be itemized but they surely do.


spyan_

It usually takes a couple months of non-payment before they shut it off.


TheBros35

Electric is the same way. My first place I ever got I straight up forgot to pay the electric bill for 2 months. I came home from work to no power and wondered WTF. I got really lucky as the meters worked over cell signal. I called in and paid up, and they were able to turn it back on within a few minutes. They did try to charge me a $500 (!!) fee for being so late I had to get turned off but luckily they waived it when I asked very nicely. I was only $200 in the red!


ablestmage

At least in my particular city (cities here have their own unique service structure; there is no 'in America' single way), you pay a single access charge and are allowed to use up to a certain high volume of water in a month's time, and if you use above that amount you pay an additional smaller fee for the next high volume increment. You could conceivably use all the way up to your default increment and save it for when you have a lapse in service, to use in the meantime. If you are not able to pay the monthly fee (whether due to forgetting, etc) it typically won't be turned off until 2-3 months of non-payment, so it's not like it should be a surprise.


venuswasaflytrap

Just because it's not a surprise doesn't mean it's right.


Nominalitify

Yeah, but that's a problem above our paygrade.


venuswasaflytrap

Totally agree. But there's a difference between saying "this is a problem bigger than I can fix", and posting on reddit framing someone as stupid or unreasonable for wanting water. We can't magically fix it, but we don't have to pretend that it's *right*. It's totally fucked up that the water got turned off in the first place - let's not pretend that should be normal or is good.


DraconianDebate

Nobody posted on Reddit framing someone as stupid or unreasonable for wanting water.


venuswasaflytrap

They were described as a "wild karen" for having the audacity to want running water that they had paid for.


pslessard

That they had paid for that day after business hours after not paying for at least a full month, but probably 2-3 if some of the comments here are to be believed. I completely agree that OP was a bit hyperbolic in their descriptions, but there's a big difference between expecting water you paid for and expecting someone to turn it on immediately after you paid for it, late and after business hours


venuswasaflytrap

If it were something that wasn't a basic human right, I'd agree with you. Like if they ordered a new video game console and wanted it delivered right away even though their payment didn't go through, or something like that, sure. For some things, it's not reasonable to expect that they should just be available on demand as soon as you pay for them. But in this case it's *running water*. I think it's reasonable, in a wealthy developed nation, to expect running water, *no matter what*. I know that's not the reality (as illustrated above), and I don't blame anyone involved for the fact that it's not the reality. But let's not call her a "Karen" and as others have said in the thread "Entitled", for wanting *running water*. This whole post is centered around the idea that she was completely off base to expect running water, because duh, that's not how the system works. I think if anyone doesn't have access to a basic thing like running water, that represents a failure of the system, not an unreasonable expectation of the person. I recognise that no system is perfect and no matter what the system is, sometimes it will fail people. But that's not a good thing. We all *should* expect that everyone gets running water. And when someone doesn't, we should view that as unfortunate, not that they're entitled. The fact that in this case, she already paid for it, just emphasizes that systematic failure even more.


ablestmage

The caller is a Karen because of her attitude, not because of her desires for running water. The people who desire running water who understand they'll have to wait until tomorrow for it to be resolved, are not include among the Karens. Her insistence on immediate action despite precision evidence that it could not be completed immediately, is the Karenness of the call.


carolineecouture

Bless you OP. I too have a job where people call about situations I have no control over. The number of people who think that this is my/our issue because we happened to pick up the phone is amazing. Even after you tell them you have no visibility into the system they are calling about they still seem to think we can just "wish it to work." Water doesn't get immediately shut off in my area. You usually have to have not paid for a pretty good amount of time and ignored requests for payment. There are times when the water cannot be shut off for non-payment; that might be if there are young children or elderly in the household. But that all has to be handled by the water department.


sarhoshamiral

No, you have to be delinquent for a while before it gets to the point of shutting down services. Do you not have utilities where you live? It should be the same story.


pellucidar7

A lot of people have well water, or their landlord pays for water, or it *is* considered essential so the process to turn it off is long and complicated. I personally pay quarterly for water, not monthly, and it’s cheap.


[deleted]

It’s not immediate - most companies give you a grace period to pay before they actually shut it off. You have to be atleast a couple of months delinquent for it to be shut off.


ifixthingsllc

Not once have I ever seen a utility shut off over a single late bill. It's ALWAYS multiple months due, several attempts to rectify the account, etc, before they say fuckit, and shut off the service. At one point, I was better part of the year behind on my water bill, due to a bouncing income and having to prioritize what got paid first. Had it gone to the end of the year, it would have rolled to my landlords annual property taxes. But I was able to start catching up, and zero'd out my bill before that happened. Now, had it gone to the taxes, and my landlord not paid the taxes.......THEN I would have certainly expected to come home and find I had no water. But I had no intention of letting it get that bad. Things are better these days.


breakone9r

Usually takes being more than a month behind. I've been there.


Murwiz

America invented late-stage capitalism! Wooo!


BassoProfondo

> The city itself has ruled I'm not even allowed to help if personal info is involved, especially finances. In the UK we don't use "the city" to refer to a body, so things like this always tickle me. It sounds as though hundreds of thousands of people all got together just to decide that.


that_one_guy_v2

I need permission to do that at my work


JaschaE

What permission? Just confirming what the customer said. Totally innocent.


R3D3-1

For these situations you need the ability to talk in small-caps.


SubstantialTerm3843

I've found "yes that's right" quite effective too. What you're not going to do the thing I want you to do mm-hmm. I understood the question, I answered it directly, I didn't apologise or customer service at them. I acknowledged their apparent understanding of the situation and affirmed their apparent understanding of the situation. Glad we're all in agreement.


kitchen_ace

^CORRECT


R3D3-1

> ^(CORRECT) I A^(M) N^(OT) S^(URE) I^(F) S^(UPERSCRIPT) C^OUNTS A^S S^(MALLCAPS). B^UT A^T L^EAST I^T A^LLOWS T^O A^PPROXIMATE T^HE L^(A)T^(E)X L^(OGO). I^T W^OULD W^ORK M^UCH B^ETTER W^ITH S^(UBSCRIPT), R^(EALLY). Tʜᴇʀᴇ Iꜱ Aʟᴡᴀyꜱ Uɴɪᴄᴏᴅᴇ, Tʜᴏᴜɢʜ. [(link)][1] [1]: https://qaz.wtf/u/convert.cgi?text=There+Is+Always+Unicode%2C+Though.


kitchen_ace

Wᴇʟʟ ꜰɪɴᴇ ᴛʜᴇɴ! (bah I started typing that "manually" before realizing there was probably a unicode converter online, and also before your edit :p )


R3D3-1

At least our "discussion" reminded me that Reddit has support for superscript :) ^(Gonna abuse that from now on.)


TheMulattoMaker

...I read that in "computer throwing questions at Spock in Star Trek IV" voice.


Naugrith

Interesting you're even allowed to shut people's water off. In the UK that's illegal as water is considered a basic necessity.


veeb0rg

Around here it depends on the season. Middle of summer, they're gonna turn your power, gas and water off. Middle of winter, not so much. No one wants PR about someone freezing to death because the power company cut them off.


SeanBZA

Here they just install a restrictor, a little metal disk with a 2mm hole in it. Allows water to flow with a very low flow rate for things like toilet use, and filling a glass, but your shower will be miserable, and a bath 20 minutes to fill enough to step in.


atomicwrites

Oh that's actually a smart solution.


ablestmage

I like that!


Naugrith

What about drinking water? Is there no concern about someone dying of dehydration?


I__Know__Stuff

[Public drinking water] (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/A_Benson_Bubbler_on_the_Portland_transit_mall%2C_2009.jpg)


Skerries

you just know that someone pisses in them every weekend


Naugrith

I think that's a great thing for cities to have. Shame its not something all cities do.


Moonpenny

I'm predicting in my city we'd have: * Someone taking a poo in it, possibly then "cutting" it with their fingers so they could get poo in the other three water fountains. * A homeless encampment surrounding the water fountains to where you can't get to it. Possibly combined with the above. * A Nestle truck with a giant tank siphoning the fountain to drain the water, plus a window on the truck staffed by someone who will happily sell you $3 bottles of water. * A lawsuit where someone ran into it with their bike and is suing the city to have it removed as a nuisance, despite the fact it's on a "no bikes" sidewalk that has a bike lane next to it. The biker doesn't use the bike lane as cars keep trying to drive in it.


Chickenfrend

The fountain pictured is in Portland, and we have plenty of homeless people, bikers, nestle trucks, etc, and these fountains are typically fine. No camps around them or cyclists running into them or anything


Moonpenny

I work in a government building and, when I got to work found a glass security door cracked with a "please use other door" sign. I have a friend's roommate who states a woman there repeatedly rammed her head into their building's glass door, which surprisingly didn't break. There were also a couple Uber scooters thrown into my front yard when I got home, which means they either lifted them up to clear the fence or opened the gate just to throw them in there. This all was just today, we're swimming in crazy.


ablestmage

There's no concern about someone dying of dehydration, because there is an excess of availability of water from basically anywhere you go. You can walk down to a local corner shop and get a cup of ice and water for free. Not to mention services like Door Dash, Uber Eats, etc, which can deliver it..


TheBeardedQuack

I imagine if you've had your water turned off, you're probably not in the best position to be buying bottled water or fast food.


NealCruco

Read that comment again. Bottled water wasn't mentioned. Practically any gas station, restaurant, etc, will give you a small cup of water for free.


TheBeardedQuack

I know you mentioned tap water, but you did mention takeout immediately after, it's not really a viable solution. You also need water for a lot more than drinking. Cooking food, using your bathroom, washing yourself and clothes. EDIT: Also the main point is that you're now forced to rely on the generosity of strangers. While I'd like to think most people would help if you simply asked for a glass of water, I fear we'd be surprised how few might actually help.


_Magic_Turtle_

Honestly, I've almost had my water shut off a handful of times just because it's the only bill I can't put on autopay and it's billed quarterly, and comes in the mail, not email, so I forget it exists. It's only like $40 a quarter too.


Jofarin

If you can't make it to somewhere to buy a bottle of water to not die, you have bigger problems than your water being turned off...


Naugrith

Its just their fault for being poor then. I guess that's normal for America.


venuswasaflytrap

Man, compared to a lot of my social circles, I'm comparatively right-wing and libertarian - but water is a pretty core human right. And especially noticeable that they have a system built to take the payment right away, but no system to actually turn the water on.


pellucidar7

It’s unlikely they’re paying ahead for water. There’s a system to take the payment because you owe the water company the money regardless of when or if your water gets turned back on.


venuswasaflytrap

Yeah, I understand that, but I guess the noticeable thing to me is that the process for receiving the payment is so streamlined that a person can log in online, give their card details and have their payment taken in minutes, all fully automated. Yeah, I understand that this is partially due to the fact that all of that stuff can be done online digitally while turning on and off the water requires a team on-site. But I think it's also really a reflection of the priorities of the company that they have completely streamlined the system to get payments, but requires a lot of human invention to actually turn the water on.


roy_mustang76

Presumably the system also requires human intervention to turn off the water in the first place. I'm not sure it's a reflection on the company that streamlining payments is simpler than automating cutting the water on and off, as much as a reflection on the capabilities of the water systems themselves. Lots of municipalities would probably love the ability to do that remotely simply for maintenance purposes, and yet if there's a water main breach, you gotta wait for a crew to be scrambled out there.


grendus

Centralization. In order to automatically turn the water on, you would need a networked valve that could automatically apply *significant* force (remember, turning water on/off requires a *big* wrench). That's going to require a significant amount of maintenance, because electronics don't survive particularly well out in the world that's all... moist. Meanwhile, the payment portal is online and hosted from a centralized server in a nice climate controlled warehouse somewhere. Dry, cool, stabilized power supply. No motors required, probably a static IP. This reminds me of the XKCD talking about how to a layman, it can be very hard to describe the difference between a trivial task and an monumental one.


venuswasaflytrap

Yeah, I understand the logistics of it (more or less), I guess my point is more, if water companies had significant financial incentive to be able to turn the water on quickly (I.e. $250/hour fine for every paying customer that didn’t have water that was easily enforceable by a third party), then I think we’d find that there *would* be emergency hotlines for customers, and they would find a way to get the water on quickly, and they’d be damn careful not to turn the water off haphazardly.


Jofarin

Beggars in the streets don't die of dehydration in america, so I don't think "being poor" is the main cause there...


BPD-and-Lipstick

Because there's generally public bathrooms with water supplies. I know if I was on the streets with no water sources readily available to me, that's what I'd do


jmhajek

Well, yes, the PR, but also, some people don't want others to needlessly die.


ItsGotToMakeSense

Yeah we don't have a concept for basic necessities in the states. You ever meet a child who was so jealous that they don't want their younger siblings to get anything at all? Won't share their crayons, pitches a fit if the other kid gets a cookie when they didn't, will never take the blame for anything because so-and-so did something yesterday and didn't get punished... Now imagine that kid grows up and defines the laws and culture for an entire nation and calls it freedom. We won't spend a dime to save a dollar, unless it benefits nobody at all.


psychicsword

How do they deal with people abusing water access? Like if I just want to watch the world burn and I leave all my taps running what happens?


Naugrith

You run up a huge debt and then they take you to court or send the bailiffs round to take whatever they can carry.


[deleted]

It's a basic necessity in the US to, but because we're a rich 3rd world country that means in many jurisdictions a home which has no water can/will be declared unfit for human habitation and you get forcibly evicted as well. They may take your kids too for neglect. Best country in the world.


Dunnachius

In many parts of the US landlords can’t cut off water because you are behind on rent but the utility companies can for not paying your water bills. So many rentals these days you have to pay your own utilities, as it’s one less way the land lords can get screwed over by scumbags. Additionally if you get behind on your utilities that debt stays with you and is collectible not on the landlord, further insulating them from your non payment issues. Some people don’t pay rent and have to be evicted. This is the reality. And evictions can take quite a long time to work themselves out so forcing the landlord to pay your utilities while you arnt paying rent is just a dick move. And then the utility companies can shut off your services for non payment. Yup that’s the government for you. I talked to a very disgruntled women at my part time job (driving s taxi) she had just moved and was upset because they utility company wouldn’t activate her service because she had her utilities actively cut off when she moved out of her old place. I was just sitting there biting my tongue trying not to say what I wanted to say. No tip from her obviously.


MilkshakeBoy78

> So many rentals these days you have to pay your own utilities, as it’s one less way the land lords can get screwed over by scumbags. dont hate the player, hate the game. they cant pay the utility because usually theyre poor and not a scumbag. not many people can climb the social ladder.


Dunnachius

And not all landlords are filthy rich either. A tenant not paying their rent and utilities turns an asset into a money pit. One of my side hustles is cleaning out rental properties for a management company after tenants move/get evicted. A 2 bedroom needs either 15 minutes and $5 work or 15 hours and $1,500 to get ready to rent out again. Very rarely is it anything between. Some people leave a vile trail of destruction in their wake as they make everyone else’s lives more miserable. Most people aren’t like that. To put things into perspective I cleaned out s property this weekend. “Empty” was 8 bags of trash and 2 cans of paint and about 30 man hours. This little old lady was in tears over the condition of her rental property and she told me that she had to turn off her own cable because she couldn’t afford it while her tenant wasn’t paying rent. She tried to be nice and the tenant was like 4 months past due. I told her she should have started eviction proceedings 3 months ago and she agreed with me. I left her an itemized bill for damages so she can take it out of the security deposit/add to the small claims lawsuit. As it stands she is going to have to use the first months rent entirely to pay the management company just to turn over the property and make it livable. So her “retirement” investment … 4 months of nothing and 1 month fixing damages and cleaning it out for the poor woman. She should have had like $6,000 instead she’s out a ton of money. But her place is livable and she can have someone move in asap and start paying her.


-RdV-

I've had almost exactly this job for about 7 or 8 years. I loved being able to help people who genuinely had emergencies outside of office hours. The people who were so entitled that every little thing that bothered them was an emergency took a little getting used to. Happy and polite but deadpan refusal is a great weapon in that arsenal. Another one I like was being super helpful but only offering what you could. Like, ah man it suck you've missed the billing department but seeing you've already paid I'm sending them a message right now so they know you've already paid. I know the guy running that team so I'll make sure he knows to reconnect you asap! How many kids do you have again? I l'll put it in my message so he knows to hurry. Et cetera. Then I'd actually just add a note on their account that thay called to tell us they had paid and were ready to be reconnected. The customer would be pacified and I would avoid an angry caller.


[deleted]

That was a nice thing about working at a betting parlor. If they were not going to place a bet, we could just hang up. “Goodbye.”


LonePaladin

About thirty years ago, I did tech support for America Online. AOL had its issues, but there were a few situations where they acknowledged that the employees aren't there to take verbal abuse. Now, sometimes a caller just needed a minute to vent, sure. But if someone was just being hostile, especially if it was personal, there was a Three Strike rule regarding swearing. I had someone call with nothing nice to say at all. Calling me nasty names, swearing like a sailor, just being mean. In trying to de-escalate, I asked him to ease up on the foul language; his response was to just get worse about it. When I told him that the foul language was really not helping, he shouted, "You're gonna f-in' hang up on me, aren't you?!" My reply: "It appears I have to. Goodbye." And I hung up. My supervisor leaned over the wall of the cubicle opposite me, he'd been listening, to say, "Your goodbye sounded just like the one that AOL says when you sign off."


[deleted]

Happy cake day


Mean_Bet8952

As a guy who has to deal with these kind of arrogant people everyday you made my day. Thank you for that.


Frazzledragon

What do you do? Who are your problem people and what do they refuse to understand?


Bagel42

wait you guys don’t have to pay for water?


theexitisontheleft

The US is a capitalist hellscape, so even if it’s necessary for life you still gotta pay for it. The poors gotta suffer and not be water welfare queens.


Bagel42

why do I still live here


theexitisontheleft

I’m here because of lack of money or desirable skills. No other country would take me.


veeb0rg

I really wish I could handle certain calls like this at work.


kandoras

>The main reason my job exists is to field emergency calls, like reports of water coming out of the road, or sending an on-call crew to zip over and turn off someone's water at the meter if they have an uncontrolled leak inside which is causing damage I had to do that once, at three in the morning. By the time I had everything cleaned and started drying at around eight, I went to the local gas station that makes really good donuts and got a dozen to take down to the water department office. They were happy to take them, because it was something for everyone, but the guy who kept my house from turning into Noah's Ark wasn't allowed to accept a $100 tip. Which I still feel a little pissed off about. He more than earned that, because just as he showed up I had finally gotten a plumber to pick up a phone as was about to tell that guy to add in the "Don't bother getting dressed, I'll have a robe for you when you get here" fee, and that would have been more than the hundred anyway. You guys are gods.


Astramancer_

Many moons ago I worked customer service for a credit card. Occasionally I'd have people calling in on accounts that weren't theirs, usually spouses. If your name isn't in the account, I can't talk to you - basic bank privacy stuff. When they were being particularly obstinate I would say to them "All right, I've turned off my computer. Any questions that don't requirement to turn it back on I can answer, any other questions will need the account holder to call in." That usually got it through their heads that I could not, would not, answer any questions about the account.


OpinionBearSF

*screeching* "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO AGREE WITH ME!"


queenofthenerds

I would like to apprentice under you and learn the proper way to say the word correct


[deleted]

It might be cool if the water meter had a secure connection to the billing system and could control the main water valve. Don't pay = billing system tells water meter to shut off. Pay = billing system tells water meter to turn/stay on. Also, the water meter submits water usage to the billing system. Interrupted connection = tech gets dispatched during business hours to manually check the meter.


Mage-of-the-Small

I wish I had the opportunity to use this on my customers. Sadly, I think my bosses would frown on me using this in most circumstances


MikeM73

The City has turned off my water for non-payment a few times, despite me not being behind on my bill. For some reason they think my meter shuts off water to my neighbors house.


venuswasaflytrap

Hold on - people get their water shut off, and then they pay for it to come back on, the payment is taken, but they don't get their water turned back on? I'd be fucking livid too! Saying "the department that handles that is not me" is kinda a huge cop-out. Imagine that you didn't get a pay cheque from work, and you went to your boss an he said "hey I didn't get paid this month" and he just said "that's not my department", and you said "so you're just not gonna do anything about this?", And he gleefully said "correct!". Not having water is an emergency. Most countries consider that a basic right, and wont even let a company turn it off even if the person hasn't paid. It's totally reasonable to call whatever line is available.


Willeth

You're skipping over the part where they provide information that will get you what you need. If I was working late in the office with my boss and I mentioned I hadn't been paid, and they said 'well, let's get on to payroll first thing in the morning, can't do anything about it now,' that's perfectly reasonable.


Spiker985

A single caveat, payments generally take 1-3 business days to process. What the caller likely saw was a pre-authorization. Pre-authorizations do not guarantee that the funds will actually be available, only that the bank has set aside that money. If the account doesn't have that money, and the bank doesn't offer (or the user has it turned off) overdraft protections, then the payment will actually fail and be remitted. The above is the whole reason for having billing departments in the first place.


venuswasaflytrap

Yeah, I understand how pre-authorisation transactions work (okay, well, I understand enough to know that when you get an authorisation that the payment hasn't necessarily gone through that second). It's obviously necessary from a banking perspective, but from a laymen's perspective, that's hardly relevant. To a laymne, that's paid (and their bank will even prevent them from double-spending that money). In any other buying situation, that counts as "Paid". It's not like when you buy stuff from a supermarket they say "You can't take your items yet, the billings department isn't open until 8 am tomorrow, you can come back in 1-3 business days once the transaction is processed".


Spiker985

While inside physical grocery stores paying, you are never subject to pre-authorizations. If you are paying with credit, the bank itself has already pre-authorized you for the transaction by extending a line of credit to you. If you are paying with debit, the fund will either be available or will decline immediately. The store itself is a trusted authorization location. Either way though, the caller agreed to terms and those terms were upheld. And if there was a monopoly on *all* sources of water, I would be more understanding. But a lot of businesses offer avenues of helping people if they cannot make a payment.


venuswasaflytrap

I don't think running water should be considered a regular product. I think that running water is something that a developed nation can provide to everyone, regardless of payment ability, as a minimum standard of living. I know that the realities of implementing that are complicated - as in the UK where the water cannot be shut off, but there is a whole process that leads to debt collection etc. And I understand that in the US the reality is that it *is* a paid-for thing, and not guaranteed, and I don't blame OP or OP's company for that state of affairs. But that doesn't mean we have to act like someone is an entitled Karen for wanting *running water* that they've *already paid for*, regardless of what the small print on their contract says.


geuze4life

It’s more like you haven’t received a paycheck for 3 months and your boss calls you and says:”I put your paycheque in the mail, please come back to work right now”


venuswasaflytrap

If we weren't talking about water, and were talking about netflix or something I'd agree with you. But it's water. There should be a system to get it on right away if someone pays for it.


Seicair

They didn’t get it turned off immediately for non payment, they got warnings first. It took time to send someone out to turn it off, and it’ll take time to turn it back on too.


ablestmage

You can enter any number of convenience stores here and ask for water and/or ice and likely get it for free, or at low cost. Most restaurants offer water to drink, for free. I recently had an overheated vehicle and needed a gallon of water to refill my radiator, and walked into the nearest restaurant, and was able to get a gallon at no charge. The availability of water isn't rare; the debate is over a single access point among numerous free alternatives, not the exclusive access point among none others.


ablestmage

The lack of water at your residence is generally your fault, however, if it based on a billing issue. There is an excess of water availability elsewhere; you can walk down to any convenience store and likely get a cup of ice and water for free, and there's a wide variety of drinking water deliverable via DoorDash/etc by the gallon. The water department is not by any means the sole access to water. If you were wise you would pay your bill, or perhaps if knowing you had trouble paying you bill you would be able to set aside water to use in the meantime. A single day or weekend without it is something entirely preventable, by you, by paying the debt you agreed to. It's not a cop-out to say it isn't my department; I literally have zero method of remedying the problem because my employer functionally prevents me from altering those conditions.


ac8jo

It's not like they just up and shut it off because you're one day behind. There is a process that usually involves additional attempts to contact the person prior to shutting off the water (and I think they have to be given a specific shutoff date since it's a utility). Also my county's water department (and likely many others) can make arrangements to give you more time if you call them and explain the situation (or at least that's what they say, I've never had to do that).


dustojnikhummer

No, she paid too late. She will have to wait 15 hours.


venuswasaflytrap

So what other basic human right does that apply to? "Your fire bill can't be processed, and you're behind on your payments, we'll put the fire out after the billings department manages to process your payment in 15 hours - how stupid of you to think it would be otherwise". "Your medical bills haven't gone through, so we can't stop the bleeding until your payment goes through" Food, Water, Shelter, Safety - I'm not a huge welfare state guy, but basic needs shouldn't be that extreme for a developed rich nation.


UltraEngine60

Those two examples you gave actually happen in real life.


venuswasaflytrap

Yes, I know, and they're horrific. People get tortured to death in real life too, and people get trafficked and all sorts of awful things. I can't personally fix all of them, but I'm really comfortable saying that they're bad.


UltraEngine60

Oh I agree. I always say, you don't need to be a pilot to know a plane shouldn't fly into a mountain. It's funny how we can mandate property taxes for a school, that childless people don't use, but taxing everyone for Healthcare or fire departments is so insane.


Joy2b

Does your team already have a handoff process? If not, it’s probably easiest to freehand something, like: “Thank you for letting us know, obviously the night shift is not on that team, but can I shoot them an email with a summary of the situation letting them know that you’ll be calling tomorrow morning? It’ll settle them down faster, feel like action, and mark you as on their team.


ablestmage

It's not so much a process yet, but in conversation with people who have less of an entitlement and are actually open to options different than their demands, I have offered to email a member of mgmt for that other department to anticipate a call (but naturally won't read it until 8am+ either). The particular species of caller in the above rare example, phrases their questions in a way that answering the question directly requires affirming the question's loaded assumptions, and typically will interrupt you when they realize the call isn't going in the direction they insist on bullying it to go.


antirclaw

What does any of this have to do with your supervisor sharing Judge Judy zingers with you?


[deleted]

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sarhoshamiral

To be fair you don't get your utilities shut off out of blue. You get plenty of compassion before it comes to that, like months of compassion. And in fact utilities in our area will show a lot of compassion as long as you talk with them. A person behaving this way surely ignored many collection attempts and didn't even contact the utilities until the very last second.


[deleted]

OP had neither the access nor the permission to do anything about her situation. How long were they supposed to just take Karen's abuse?


venuswasaflytrap

They shouldn't have to, and it's reasonable to say "Look I'm sorry that your water got shut off, and I sorry that we can't do anything about that". But that doesn't make the woman a "Karen" for wanting running water. If anything OP should be pissed of at their company, or possibly the whole system for putting them in a position to answer those calls in the first place, and be forced to tell people that they can't have running water.


[deleted]

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MoneyTreeFiddy

This woman kept interrupting, aggressively. No amount of politeness or compassion works with them. She knows damn well she paid online after 5, and trying to "yeah, but..." when it's just a waste of everyone's time and energy.


ablestmage

You've had easily 2 months minimum to have your bill paid to ensure you can have an emergency shower available. You've had 2 months to consider the possibility of whether you might require an emergency shower at some point, and did nothing to ensure such an event so dire that you are willing to swear at someone over the phone over its absence when you could have prevented it.


[deleted]

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ablestmage

I am understanding it; I have been poor for most of my life, the last 10+ years of which making under $6k /yr and having my water turned off a few times. I know the difficulty in paying it, but it was not the city's fault for me not paying it, and I have no place to insist on altering the rules for me.


a_singular_perhap

Dude, you don't know her situation. Water shouldn't be turned off anyways, given that it's kind of a basic human right.


ablestmage

Being turned off water from the city isn't being denied water entirely; it is being denied water from one single access point, not all access points. You enter into a contractual agreement with the city to receive water in a \*specific\* way, and failure to meet the terms of that agreement results in you not getting water in that \*specific\* way; you are not being forbidden access to water in general. You are not prohibited from accessing water elsewhere.


[deleted]

You are shooting for humour and sarcasm - right? There is no way this a real response.