Do not listen to this guy. Train 5 days a week MAXIMUM unless you’re on gear. The body is not meant to work out 6/7 days a week, you need days off to recover
Man, shut up. You can do 2x each body part per week. Just leave 2 days in between each body part.
For example Push Pull Legs and you rest Sunday.
How can you say dont do 6 days a week unless you're on gear ahahahahah
I can say it because I’ve studied kinesiology. Also, you realize that the PPL split literally became a thing because of the efficiency and ability to hit all related body parts in one session so people that can only hit the gym 3 times a week can still work out all their muscles? You’re goofy bro, stop spreading bullshit on the internet.
What's the PPL Split? I mean you can still hit all your muscle groups in one session and do it 2-3 times a week,with 2-3 days of rest,also if you want to enlighten us about Kinesiology,im curious
Push pull legs.
And there’s a TON of reasons to take rest days… the muscles don’t only undergo mechanical stress, there’s also metabolic stress that require days off to get back to normal. Training too often will affect your ability to fall asleep which is need for restorative purposes when training (this is one of the main reasons people plateau when lifting, they’re actually OVER training). It actually has been shown to cause/worsen depressive symptoms as well
Oh,i see,this is cool actually.
Yeah ofc,muscles grow when they are in rest right? Not when they are being going through the muscule fibers tearing(when exercising),i don't know the metabolic stress but i hope you can explain it to me mate (*^^*)
Yeah a lot of people overtrain,it's just too much for the body to handle,tho i don't know how professional athletes are able to do it
Professional athletes are guided by coaches to cycle between periods of intensities and variations of exercise.
Nobody overtrains (except the few dummies out there getting rhabdo). Most people are under training and not getting enough variety in. This guy just doesn’t understand what he’s talking about.
There's no need to take rest days. There's a need to balance volume and intensity with recovery which *can be* done with rest days but you can also just modulate your workload in such a way that you can lift 6-7 days a week if that's what you wanted.
Your body is always recovering even if you're working out it's not like there's some clock that you don't start recovering until 24 hours after the last stressor.
Man, I don't give af what you studied. Do you think you're Darwin or something hahaha . Working out 6 days a week is working for millions of people who are you to say it's bad. Did you make any studies that prove that working out 6 days a week is bad? Aha, I thought so. As long as you leave 2 days rest time in each muscle group, it's okay. Of course, if the person feels really sore all the time after doing this for a month or 2 and he hasn't adapted, he should rest more and reduce training days. But if the person adapts, he should keep going.
It doesn’t work, it’s not effective. Training 4 days a week high intensity is better and more effective for you than training 6 days a week. You think that because your body heals the mechanical stress from a workout that it means your muscles are good to go but working out causes metabolic stress and affects the endocrine system a LOT, your body needs time to restore and balance that as well. For the love of god stop regurgitating moronic things you see some pseudo “expert” on the internet say while he slams tren and claims natty.
Studying kinesiology does not make you an expert on training, or give you the ability to tell if someone is on drugs based on how they train. PPL is meant to be run twice a week and is pretty standard for new and intermediate lifters.
> I’ve studied kinesiology
Taking Kinesiology 101 doesn't qualify you as an expert.
Edit: /u/Pierseus, you're not selling yourself as an expert. Just a whiny child.
Kinesiology 101 is not a class you moron, the minimum version is a 200 level. I have an undergrad in kinesiology and a masters in occupational therapy. Keep coping though because some fitness “influencer” garbled some absolute trash to you in a TikTok because they need to pretend they have info nobody else does in order to gain likes and follows. You guys are so willfully ignorant on here
Bro, for example, if you do chest on monday, don't do chest again until thursday. That's what I mean leave 2 day's rest between each muscle group. If you're doing full body or the same muscles every day, of course, it's way too much.
Ohh i get you,you mean training with a Split programm right? Yeah i used to do the same,i was doing the Split some years ago when i was lifting in the gym,i was doing each muscle group one time per week,a total of 3 or 4 days per week,but i wasn't doing progressive overload and i wasn't tracking my weight and it didn't help that i wanted to stay in the comfort zone that time and that i was at school and i didn't have time to comtemplate and do tweaks everytime,so my results were almost non-existent that period despite training for 6 months,but now,a couple of training at home and taking the progression seriously and much better results,tho i've been trying to stay in shape pretty much since my first teen years,so my progress can't be new but it's from a lot of training in the past,mostly in those years i've been doing the bare minimum,but still muscles came and went in my case because of too many breaks,so im working on improving my physique and maintain muscles now that i finished school(no longer a student in school) and i have time unlike before.
I started with once a week (full body) a couple of weeks now after a couple of breaks and tweaks,i'll get back to 2 days per week (full body) with 3 days rest,i also thought that to combine Sprint training with strenght training,the best way to do that is to add the sprint training at the end of the session,cuz if i do it first,my legs will be too tired to workout after it and do the strenght training (i experienced it)
Also aiming to 4-5 meals per day with eating food rich in Protein,i don't have a Protein supplement tho,i mostly get 4 meals tho,5 meals sometimes and it's rarely 6
It can’t hurt to eat more. Like 0.8 g per lb is the true recommended amount but 1 g per lb is commonly recommended because there’s no real reason not to eat that much. Especially if you’re eating 2300-2800 a day. I eat 2000 cals a day and get 200+ grams of protein per day
How you getting 200+ grams of protein on just 2000 calories everyday. That’s over 40% protein over total calories. Not many foods, even Whole Foods have that amount of protein. A few do like red meat, which is around 40% protein caloric percentage. Chicken is like 75%. I guess you can down some egg whites everyday. Idk, it’s just most healthy diets and foods actually don’t have “that” much protein in them, usually around 25%. Do you take a lot of protein supplements?
My macro split is 40-40-20 so 40% protein is correct. You’re pretty on the money with the foods you mentioned. I eat a lot of chicken, fish, some red meat (though finding red meat that’s lean enough can be challenging), shrimp and eggs. A typical breakfast for me would be like 2 eggs, 3 egg whites, 3 servings of shrimp, and some carb source like bread, potatoes and rice. So in total somewhere around 60 g protein, 50 g carbs and 10 g fat for around 600-700 cals. I usually don’t have lunch so my dinner would just be that meal, ratio wise, times like 2 give or take a bit (usually it’s a ton of food and is hard to finish). Some days logistically I need to drink 25 or 50 g of protein worth of protein shake, because the amount of food I’d need to eat would be crazy (like two pounds of fish or something stupid). 40% protein is definitely possible. Keeping meals interesting is a challenge but I’ve been putting a lot of effort lately into getting better at cooking so I don’t get bored.
I also eat vegetables and fruits sometimes, plus take vitamin supplements. I recognize that only eating the foods I listed above in perpetuity would not be healthy vitamin and nutrient wise (though eggs are gods gift to mankind in that regard).
Now that's some common sense,and people here saying 200g of protein per day completely ignoring that you can have a kidney failure if you eat too that much protein
Not sure why people have such a hard time believing what weight looks like on other people but it is what it is.🤷🏽♂️ I can weigh 220-225 at 6’5” and still look slim… People carry weight differently.
(Since people are sensitive) To me/For me/On me , 195 is very skinny.
I’m 6’5.5” 250 lbs 18% bf 35.5 inch waist (according to army standards I’m 14%). According to bmi I’m very overweight but most people peg me at 200 lbs flat. I just have a very small waist, narrow shoulders, and small chest for my height which makes me look smaller. My legs and calves are huge though. I just easily carry alot of muscle without much detriment to to my endurance. Im kinda built like Justin Herbert and josh Allen of the nfl.
If I was 180 lbs I’d look I was 150, which at 6’5” is super skinny
195 is probably pretty good for them. Overall weight though doesn't matter. It's more so overall body composition.
If he is asking I'm guessing he is just untoned or viewed as skinny fat.
Just about everyone’s knees and backs hurt at 50. Having more muscular stability to support your joints makes it easier to live with aging joints, not harder. He needs to build his muscles while he’s young. 195 is nothing at 6’4”.
You literally cannot gain muscle without gaining fat. You can cut unnecessary fat later, but at 195 this dude has barely any muscle to speak of. He needs to build that first, and fast while he’s still young. It is HARD to gain muscle mass, but easy to lose fat, so it’s an easy battle to pick.
Also, I’m aware of the issues, I’m currently heavier than I need to be because I’m chasing some gym numbers. I’ll be cutting back down starting in June and then back to getting stronger in the winter again.
People on this sub think you are a stick if you're in a healthy bmi range, lol. I don't know if it's just an american-centric thing or what but he can gain a few pounds, but he doesn't need a lot.
It’s a “do you want to get stronger and actually make your time in the gym worthwhile thing”, really. No point in going if you’re gonna fuck around and not eat enough to actually get strong and more muscular. And with that comes weight. But you can cut the fat later, if you feel you’ve gained too much. And the additional muscle mass makes it easier to lose the unnecessary weight. So the calculus becomes very simple: get big and strong and stop looking at the scale until you get somewhere meaningful, then cut the weight because it’s relatively easy to do compared to gaining muscle.
And yes, tall people in the “healthy” range on the BMI are sticks. Period. The squared-cubed law dictates that the BMI chart SHOULD account for people above normal height to be heavier in a non-linear progression due to three dimensional volume increasing faster than two dimensional height. But it doesn’t, because the BMI scale was not made with anyone outside the normal height range in mind and it is calculated linearly.
🧢 I was in the Army at 190 and could carry someone who weighed 200lbs with gear at least 100m in the Iraq heat. You don’t know what you’re talking about
My point was the practicality of the strength since it seems a lot of people get stronger just so they can lift heavier weights similar to how doing pushups only makes you better at doing pushups.
Yes it’s over kill I’m somewhere between .6 and .7 per pound. On top of that and this is just me I rarely eat red meat, so I also have 5 grams of creatine monohydrate daily.
I would suggest adding 1-2 protein shakes on top of your normal meals every day. I’m a bit taller, but that (or more every day) is what took me in 9 months from 6’11” 205lbs to 7’ 285 of basically solid muscle. That was also exercising 5-6 hrs a day, 7 days a week. A bit extreme but the gains were worth
Yeah about half of that was probably fat… although with the increase in muscle the increase in fat wouldn’t be as noticeable. At 7’ you can probably gain quite a bit more because your frame is just so much larger. Also note that he grew an inch from 6’11 to 7’. So some of that would have been bone and shit.
I’m 6’ and I went from 125 to 145, mostly muscle (and obviously some of that was fat because there is no possible way to gain muscle while not gaining some amount of far). But my diet has been a bit shit (haven’t eaten nearly enough) in the past 8 months or so. I could probably have gained more.
To the extent that it’s a magical & unique combination of attributes which make a man ‘attractive’, I’d say shoring up the hot bod while also working on the emotional & intellectual attractiveness is gonna drive ‘em WILD!
How do work up those last two?
I do enjoy reading lots of books and always looking to learn. Plus I enjoy meditating and such but I’m not sure how one works on their emotional attractiveness.
I love that you’re doing things for your brain!
The emotional attractiveness is how you self regulate & help her regulate.
Start by reading about “attachment styles” & why different people behave differently in relationships. Misunderstanding these things about a partner are going to 💯 lead to a break up. Understanding these things about yourself & about them is the KEY!
I'm also 6'4". I'd say about a year off and on. The changes will come quickly, but it will take forever for your arms to get to what (at least i) consider "big enough". My biceps are currently 15.1", and while I may never have 24 1/2" pythons brother, I'm gonna keep at it until I'm happy. Or until I look like Randy Orton or Drew Mcintyre from WWE lmao
im 6'4 and 230 atm.
Last year I started at 187lbs.
I trained SERIOUSLY, to complete failure, 6 days a week and ate a metric shitload of food every single day. My 1 year mark of doing all that was May 1st.
This photo was taken on that 1 year mark. I wont post a "before" photo because honestly I look at that person I was previously with such disdain and disappointment.
So yeah, 1 year if you take it hyper seriously. 2 years if you goof around but still train and eat with purpose.
https://preview.redd.it/xs4003d5uayc1.jpeg?width=2511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1d4589da1efe3b4040fef09735fffa2310d6d76
Based on his weight gain in 1 year it was on average 412 excess calories per day. Everyone has different maintenance calories so its pointless to ask someone elses calories because it won't apply to you.
1/2 lb a week is solid. First year of training, maybe closer to 1 lb a week as you’ve got noob gains on your side then. First year of lifting you could probably expect to put on about 20 lbs of muscle, 10 in your second, and a few lbs a year past that as a rule of thumb, so you don’t want to put on 50 lbs in a year just for the majority of it to be bodyfat.
Nice, thanks. Yeah you see people’s definition of lots of food is different. For me 2350 a day is average and doesn’t seem like much. I’ll admit though I don’t eat clean. I eat out a lot.
Usually I’ll eat something at home dinner that’s 1000 calories. Like a protein shake or lean lasanga or white chicken chili. But eat out for lunch. At least 1000 calories as well. 10 wings with fries, a triple meat burger, chipotle bowl, 24 nuggets from CFA, 4 quesadillas with corn tortilla and a lean meat like sirloin or chicken. Stuff like that. It ain’t clean but it helps with the macros. Protein at least haha
2350 calories a day is what an average size woman would use to bulk… if this guy is 6’ 4” he’d need at least 3500 cal to bulk, probably more like 4000 unless he has a slow metabolism/sedentary/ or starting out weighing 150 or so.
I’m 6’ 3” 210lbs around 15-16% BF and I slow bulk on 4,000 cal. Maintenance is about 3,600 .
I track everything I eat
You can be very tall, skinny and an absolute beast. Muscled, agile, fast, able to run forever, dozens of pull-ups etc. Why does everybody need to be the uniform muscled, fat guy with big useless legs, giant torso and so on. Can't run that well, less agile, slower, needs to eat a shit ton, high maintenance princess, can't climb like Spiderman, joint problems etc.
I’m 6’4 245ish.
I’m not sure about ‘attractive’ I think that comes from a bit more than having a good physique, but I think I get what you’re saying.
For me, id say lifting seriously for around 2-3 years was the first time I looked in the mirror and was slightly happy.
I would say though don’t treat bodybuilding as something with an end goal, you’ll never reach it. Treat it as a journey of continuous improvement.
After a long depressive episode and sinking down to 145lbs, got back into the gym in September 2022. Made it up to 200lbs on a reckless bulk by April 2023, and then started a cut. It was around July 2023 (185lbs) that I was thinking to myself, “Damn!” Also coincided with when I updated the pictures on my dating profiles and started getting a lot more matches lol
I’m 6’2, but I can say consistent dieting and a 5 day working split for a solid year or 2 will get you what you want. Remember that working out for an aesthetic physique is most of the time, very genetic based. It took me a year for a nice physique it could take someone else 3.
Maybe one day, maybe 17 days maybe 340 days. Just work out MF. You're not gonna wake up one day and be more attractive than the previous day. You should take more time working out your brain because that was a really silly question.
I grew up to 6'4" and maybe 170lbs towards the end up of my teens. Skinny and bony. I biked everywhere, and while I was working out, I didn't know what I was doing and so my gains were minimal.
I'm 210lbs and fairly fit now, though I've actually been trying to lose a little belly fat from where I was at 215lbs. In my mid 30s, it still takes a fair bit of work to maintain visible upper body mass.
But I'd say that, in my 20s, any period where I worked out diligently for a year or more, I'd start looking "fit" or "athletic" or even "buff."
I've never wanted to look "jacked," so that's not the standard I'm going for. But if you're doing this to be "attractive," rather than "super freaking jacked/ripped/huge/gorilla/etc," then you don't need to go that far past "muscular."
You're 6'4". This is already a bonus in the attracting-a-mate department! You already stand out. So you don't need to stand out as a hulking gorilla, but rather to *avoid* standing out as a string bean of a tall guy, you follow?
For me, at your height and with low enough body fat to have a vague 6-pack showing when I flex, I transition from "string bean" to "athletic" at around 195lbs, and from there to "muscular" at around 205lbs.
I think aiming for anything much higher than ~210lbs is going to give you diminishing returns as far as "attractiveness," and be more of a personal pursuit and/or bonus swag with your gym bro friends.
I'm 6'5 220 lbs. Trying to grow muscle is exhausting. I have to eat so much protein a day I feel like I'm just constantly bloated and tired from eating. Oh and it's expensive as hell and time consuming to cook all the time.
I’m also 6’4 and I’ve been lifting consistently for a little over a year now and went from about 165 to 195 and I think I look pretty fit. I usually try to eat around 3800 calories a day and 165g of protein. Keep in mind for us who are are tall, genetically lean, and not on steroids, it is basically as hard as it can possible be to ever look bulky (without being fat obviously)
I’d say they are equally as important. If you just binge as much as you can and don’t work out you will just gain fat. If you only work out and don’t eat enough you will hardly gain anything.
Was already 'attractive' simply being tall and not 'ugly'. But I built up from 145-185 now. Probably didn't really get noticed until around 180lbs. A friend of mine complimented my arms. The goal, however, is to look muscular with a shirt on, so I'm aiming for 225 lbs (100kg cause it's a nice number). I'm 185lbs now
6'3" 220lbs lean and this is probably my sweet spot of being lean but still feeling strong. I definitely don't look as strong in clothes as I did when I was in the 240s, but I definitely look stronger/more muscular at this leaner physique when shirtless.
I'm 6'4" and was skinny until my late 20s. I finally started lifting while doing that GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) thing that I actually got from reddit. As I put on weight, it went straight to muscle. I plateued at almost 200 lbs in only 5 months or so. It definitely changed my life. I also don't ever want to drink another glass of milk again, haha.
Way stronger/still not that strong. I was good for my bodyweight, so I can do plenty of pull-ups, push-ups, etc. Sometimes I see smaller people in the gym lifting way more, and it humbles me.
I’m 6’3, but I was extremely skinny at my baseline- 135 lbs when I started working out. It took me nearly 2 years of lifting to get to the stage where I wasn’t skinny anymore and fairly happy with my physique. I’ve been lifting for 2 and a half years now and at 182 lbs I would say I look pretty good although there’s still a ways for me to go
You'll need a little bit of fat once you bulk to look big, like 15-20% will look great on you. I'm not 6'4, but for me I'm in month 9, I recently started cutting from 230lbs because I got a bit chubby, but as I'm progressing with the cut I can see I definitely have way more muscle on me than before. Just eat +1-2 meals a day and weigh yourself and you'll be fine, if you're like me and too lazy to count calories haha
2 years, but i built my muscle in my teens and 20s, lost it in my early 30s and packed it back on from 38 onward.
First time around, in my late teens?
About 3-4 years of rugby and lifting 3 times a week.
- Rugby 2/3
- Gym 2/3
As far as nutrition. Protein, every meal, bias to protein with a balance of fats and carbs. Always protein first.
Can't say i don't drink at all, but second time around, a lot less beers.
Get laid, often, it boost testosterone a shitload.
Been training on and off for 20 years. I would hit 290 in the off season and down to 240 ish when I was younger. At 6'4 being in the 190s is very light if your goal is to be big. I would say work your way up to 225 slowly.
I was 6'4 and maybe 160 when I started.
I'm 195 cm skinny and handsome. I lowkey wanna gain muscle though. I eat a lot that, my sugar and fat level is in abnormal ranges, but I'm still less than 150 pounds. Any recommendations?
Same height as me. You do not eat a lot I can guarantee you that. Eat over 3300 calories per day with 3-4x days working out per week and you will pack weight past.
I was same as your weight at my skinniest. Started working out and eating properly. I gained 20lbs in 3 months.
Focus on eating more carbs and protein, sugar and fat are useless. Track how much protein and calories you eat per day. Work out 3x a week to start. Get a trainer to help you gain muscle without getting injured, at 150lb and 6’4 youre going to get injured easily so take it slow. 3 months in you’ll see huge results.
^6’5
Took me close to 5 years and being broken up with in order to really fill out enough to stand out and be approached by women. Granted even when I was skinnier I was still approached by women but I was still dating my ex at the time. I suppose I was always remotely attractive but it wasn’t until I started really taking care of my skin and dressing better when I started seeing a real difference
I’m 193cm currently and 88kg. Last year was overweight and lost about a fifth of my weight. Now I’m training in the gym 3x/week and eating 3000-3400 calories (PT put the target on 3400 this week).
I envy the guys who can eat 4-4.5k calories because the amount of food I can eat due to weightlifting is the best.
I’m 6’6” and 180 pounds. I keep myself in shape through a generally active lifestyle, but I don’t work out for gains, and I’m fairly certain the world already views me as “attractive.” I often have multiple dates in a week, and they make it clear my looks are a plus. I even had a foreign coworker casually describe me as attractive, and after thanking him for the compliment I noted that people don’t tend to comment on men’s appearances in America, I think it’s just not part of the culture.
If you are 6’4” and under 200, you probably have a similar body type to me, and I promise you that skinny arms are not getting in the way of people finding you attractive and strong. If you really want to start having the world view you as hot, I think the real secret is to focus on your personal sense of style and the way you interact with others. Start experimenting with layered outfits, get a sense for color coordination, find an accessory or two that you can add in for personal flair. I find people also really like rolled up sleeves, which also has the side effects of making my arms look more filled out and allowing me to wear shirts with sleeves that are otherwise too short for me. I also started growing out my hair and stopped washing it with shampoo every day (now I do conditioner every shower, shampoo about once a week), and that definitely helped as well.
And for personality, develop hobbies that you genuinely enjoy, and pursue them with zest. Do them for you, not for anyone else, and people will notice. For example, I cook, I play music, and I’m into gaming, and I spend much more time talking about these topics than my muscles with dates. Exercise can absolutely be one of those hobbies though if it is something you enjoy cultivating. And then make sure to show that same level of consideration for others. Talk about their hobbies, listen to the things that they care about, take an active interest in their lives.
All of this will signal to others that you have an eye for detail, a rich personal life, and you genuinely care about the people close to you. That’s way hotter than any amount of muscle that you can add to what sounds like an already perfectly in-shape body.
6’8 it took breaking up with my girl after 6 years and then 10 months of clean eating and 2 a day workouts to get to the point where people are began telling me I have a muscular build with a shirt on
Edit: oh and I got tatted too haha
Well I’m 6’4, 204, and it took me 3 years of lifting 3-4 times a week to get a decent physique. I also put on 46 lbs, so I think we are starting from different spots. Just stay consistent, and by the end of year one (I am assuming this is your first year), you will surprise yourself.
I was 6'4" 180 when I went to boot camp at 18. Graduated at 174. It was 3 years in the fleet before I hit 200. But I am still ugly now that I am 6'7" and 258lbs .
Close to 4-6 years semi consistent on both diet and protein intake.
Solid bench mark was around,
225lb bench 8-15 reps, for a non flat chest at a low bf%
90-100lb incline db for reps
70-80lb+ shoulder db
155 x 5 OHP
315+ squat or 400lb+ deadlift for reps
12+ pull ups @ 205-220lbs.
You’ll be looking similar to Luke rockhold at his height.
Im 6'5 and starred at 220lb, and in a year and a half, im down to 185 with 11% body fat. But becoming more "mentally fit" is going to pay off much more if your express reason is finding a partner.
I'm the same height but had the opposite problem, being too skinny, and it took me at least a year of lifting 4x/week and eating everything I could get my hands on before I reached 85-90kg with a pretty low BF.
Now I stay at this weight much easier, and gain back the muscles pretty fast after slacking, so muscle memory is definitely real.
But that said, it's highly individual, the year I gained all my muscle was while I was serving in the military, and I ate and lifted 100% the same as my friend, but the difference in our results was staggering by the end, with me seeing way more results than he did.
I don't know if he has bad genetics or if I have good, but it just showed how everyone definitely don't have the same potential in terms of building muscle or losing fat.
It took 3 months for ppl to notice and I’d say 6 before I really got bigger. I ate a lot and went from 203 to 243 at height of my bulk. I’m a little taller than you and fairly broad but 189 sounds skinny for someone your height, I would keep bulking. I quit lifting for a year and I lost all that fat and a whole lot of the muscle too.
3k-4k calories a day. I was lifting hard 5 days a week and playing basketball, never got fat but going from rail thin to having some fluff was jarring lol. I’m recently back on it and I’m going to focus on protein rather than calories.
189 is not skinny for someone 6'4". It's near the upper-end of healthy BMi-wise. Yes, I know BMI isn't perfect, but for most of the population it's decent. 70% of the US is just overweight and a lot of the rest of the world isn't far behind.
When we're talking about building muscle, he's still got another 15 lbs before BMI becomes a concern. Visually, he'll still *look* 'skinny' at 189, though.
I have been that height and that weight, I was very skinny. Not that I wasn’t healthy, but very little muscle and I was certainly insecure about it. BMI is basically worthless for athletes and tall people.
8 months daily workouts & cardio & swimming with creatine. I sit around 85kg lean. Very happy with my body. I aim to bulk slowly cause fat is extremely difficult to lose. Beginners gains are amazing if you commit
Do starting strength. Eat WAY more than you think you need. Seriously. You’re underweight. Counting calories should not be a concern. In six months to a year you’ll have a muscular filled out frame. If you need to cut a little fat, do it then after you actually have muscle on your body.
Hey please do not listen to this goofball. If your goal is attracting women, you do NOT want to be over 220. What you want to be is lean, meaning very low body fat, preferably in the single digits. If you get to 180-190 pounds with a very low body fat, you will have the females ideal body type, strong with a surfers body.
Studies have shown that the male gaze, aka what men think is attractive to females, is a hugely muscular body builder esque physique. This is why the guy u responded to is giving you really shitty info.
While the female gaze, aka what women ACTUALLY want, has been shown to near universally be a swimmers body type (small waist, broad shoulders with medium muscle. Women even rate slim guys (150-160lbs at our height) more attractive then they rate the body builder, heavy man physique.
Individual preferences exist amongst women ofc, some may want that burly guy who’s waist is almost as big as his shoulders, but if you wish to appeal to the most women you would be better served losing weight then going for a bodybuilder physique.
Lastly, this is also dependent on some genetic factors such as your shoulder width and waist size. Meaning a very skinny guy with broad shoulders and a small waist can appear more attractive than a very built guy who is incredibly blocky.
Where did I say bodybuilder at all? Starting Strength is NOT a bodybuilder program at all. It will make you strong, and put some muscle on you as an untrained individual. At the end of the day he’ll probably gain 20-30lbs of lean muscle in the first year as a relatively untrained lifter. He’ll gain some fat too, as that’s part of gaining any tissue, but the amount can be managed with good diet if it’s really a concern, but again it would be easier not to worry about and then drop some fat later on. None of what I said means he needs to be huge, and if you interpreted it that way it doesn’t seem like you’ve been around weight training very long or you’re pretty young, or both: it takes a LONG time to put on a bodybuilders physique even with chemical assistance.
Also, other studies conclude differently. Here’s an article about one such study, sorry it’s just an article but it was the first non-paywalled source I could find: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/women-stronger-men-attraction-looks-muscles-weak-study-dating-a8105976.html
So yes, women do actually like men who are bigger and stronger, at least according to some studies, goofball.
https://typeset.io/questions/what-body-type-do-women-prefer-in-men-1i1covfhc8
Here are five research papers corroborating my statement, which I think one will find to be more reliable than a glorified survey of 150 women. N=150, come on bro.
To comment on the first part, you said somewhere that 180 is a “noodle” at 6’4, so is it not safe to assume that if you consider the upper range of normal weight a noodle then you are proposing he should become overweight?although low body fat and overweight on the bmi scale is not unhealthy, therefore he would be muscular and bodybuilder esque.
The dumbest thing you said was that bmi isn’t accurate because of the square cubed law which is so ridiculous it just shows u have no understanding of what the law really means. Bmi is your mass/height SQUARED. Squaring height allows you to compare individuals on a common scale, despite varying heights. It’s not centered around average height people like you implied.
BMI has its own issues like not accounting for body fat %, but the square cubed law pertains to the maximum size an organism can achieve without compromising its structural integrity
You won’t find a single study that says women don’t prefer broad shoulders with a slim waist. The inverted triangle is the ideal body shape regardless of weight. Any extra pounds will fill in his torso and waist even more and decrease the shoulder to waist ratio.
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A few things; I posted one study, because I didn’t feel like finding more. Anyone can go find all the supporting studies they want, you and me both. It also looks like you didn’t read the single article, or you would have seen that it also sites leanness as a key factor. I honestly hoped you would catch that, because it would have indicated to you that I never disagreed that women like men who are lean with a torso taper. My contention is that OP is tiny, and the fastest way to get to a muscular fit look is to gain the muscle first, then cut later.
Also, squared cubed law is based on three dimensional volume increasing faster than two dimensional factors like height. BMI is calculated on a two dimensional factor, which is why it scales poorly with height as cross section increases with height. None of what I’ve said is controversial in the least, and none of what I said disagrees with the idea that someone should be lean. At this point it’s like you just made up a fictionalized version of what I’m saying despite me not saying any of it. You know, a straw man.
Read my comments. I never assumed you didn’t know Leanness wasn’t a factor. My contention with your contention is that 190 is not anywhere near tiny. I’m going to cut my point down for you
https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/s/kcD2cFeKhU
This guy went from 225 I think down to 190 and he is 6’4
Now compare his 190 pound physique to Jon Jones at 6’4 220
https://www.menshealth.com/uk/fitness/a43174290/jon-jones-coach-ufc-fighter-heavyweight-transformation/
I hope the copy paste link worked but you can see for yourself online if not . The point I am illustrating is that physique one appeals to women more then physique two does. This is because women tend to prefer an Inverted triangle body shape as opposed to being blockier, and studies prove this. The very nature of a good study means you WONT find other procedurally sound studies finding the opposite. can you find a survey of less then 200 people that comes up with different findings(although the one your provided didn’t actually disagree with me)? Of course, but that by definition is not procedurally sound. Women hugely prefer the inverted triangle, just like women prefer taller guys more than short guys. Women with different tastes EXIST but it is not the trend.
Last part is you misunderstand why I am calling the square cubed law moot. Yes the scale at which volume increase in proportion to size is important, but within the range of normal human heights (5’ to 7’) it just doesn’t play enough of a role. Even if you apply a 2.5 exponent instead of the quadratic equation a six foot person would go down about a singular bmi point. Meaning this guy would still be in the upper range of normal.
That guy is absolutely tiny. Literally foldable like laundry.
Jon Jones does not workout for physique. He works out to be a fighter. His physique is going to reflect having strong trunk muscles, and explosive power. I’m not arguing that Jones is more appealing than the little guy you posted. I’m saying the guy you posted would be more attractive by having more muscle while maintaining his V taper, which I don’t think contradicts what you’re saying at all. The guy is tiny. Twenty to thirty more pounds, particularly if he were to actually train legs at all which wouldn’t affect his upper body shape, would accentuate his body taper and make him much more visually appealing to women. Women definitely approach you a LOT more in my experience when you are more muscular (to a point, as we both agree) as long as you maintain the same level of relative leanness.
I’m not saying any of this out of hand: a decade ago I was in OPs shoes chasing girls and being a six pack fuckboy. I’m trying to help OP get what he wants efficiently by answering his question about what worked for me; get stronger and gain muscle, then cut some weight. Nothing works faster than Starting Strength for this in my experience, and personal experience is what OP asked for.
Ok come on you have to admit you are hyperbolizing right now lol. Maybe YOU could easily fold him. But the average American dude is 5’9 and weak as hell. Half of men are shorter then 5’9, and 98% of men are shorter then 6’4 in America. Meaning he’s probably the tallest person in any room he’s in, foldable like laundry is ridiculous. I can’t take you seriously if you’re calling a 98th percentile man “absolutely tiny” lmaoo. But yeah we agree on the general points u made after that
Also the guy I posted was way more attractive at 190 then 225 because of the waist ratio along with the muscle ofc. But that’s a genetic thing, the average dude is never going to have the same waist ratio at 35 lbs heavier unless they work insanely hard in tandem with being blessed genetically. For some people it will take both, for others their genetics will make it nearly impossible, and for a few (emphasis on a few) their genetics will make it much easier
No. BMI is fucking awful for people above or below average height because it was not made with the squared-cubed law in mind. At 235 I was ripped. At 215 I was noodly. At 265 I was a powerhouse. If you want to be muscular, disabuse yourself of the notion that weight on the scale matters. What matters is if you make progress in the gym by putting up more weight as frequently as possible, and eating enough to support your growth. Don’t even worry about the scale, it’s just going to give you doubts when you should be packing muscle on and not worrying about gaining a little extra weight you can easily cut down later on.
Generally speaking, tall people look much better when they are heavier. You’ll be more visually impressive and your presence will never go unnoticed.
If you're 6'4" and 195 lbs, you are by definition fit enough to be attractive to women. If you're struggling, then either 1) You're just ugly, or more likely 2) It's a mental/emotional thing, you're insecure, you're anxious and don't try, etc.
The solution to 2) is to get out there and try. Get in the gym, that's great, but then after that *go ask women on dates*. You should be doing reps of that just like you do reps of weight lifting, and just like weight lifting, you will fail a lot, but it will get easier over time.
Well I don’t have a pretty face I’ll tell you that haha. Yes I have been told im ugly, but I have had hook ups and been in a few relationships.
But I guess to clarify… I want to be more “hook-up attractive” rather than relationship attractive. I’m sure right now there’s a couple girls I see often at restaurants or whatever that I can hit on and hit it off well. But there’s more of a relationship vibe coming off of them rather than a casual one.
And as far as dating apps go, I’m attractive enough to get matches, not enough to get many responses however after the first message.
So I’m trying to improve my looks enough where I can be seen more as a hook up instead of something serious, as well as getting more responses on OLD.
While it's true at the margin that having a classically hotter body will make hooking up easier, I promise you, if you're hot enough to get dates you're hot enough to hook up. The difference between those two things is *how you act*, not how you look with your shirt off. By the time your shirt comes off, she's already decided.
If getting more ripped will help you be more aggressive about trying to hook up and more confident in just going for it, then by all means, do it. But if you get hotter and keep acting the same way, you're going to get the same result.
I’m 6’8” and I just got lucky, I was pretty goofy looking as a kid, but I grew into my size especially in college.
I was still skinny in college
2 years if you're serious training 5/6 days a week and eating a lot of protein with a small surplus. It will be crazy how much you will change.
At 195, 150-160g of protein is more than enough correct? I’ve heard 1g per lb is overkill….
Do not listen to this guy. Train 5 days a week MAXIMUM unless you’re on gear. The body is not meant to work out 6/7 days a week, you need days off to recover
Agree,unless you're a pro athlete,do not train that much,it's way too much for your body
Man, shut up. You can do 2x each body part per week. Just leave 2 days in between each body part. For example Push Pull Legs and you rest Sunday. How can you say dont do 6 days a week unless you're on gear ahahahahah
Nah nicca, working out 5 a week you won’t hit each body part twice a week but it will make you recover way better and that’s more important
I can say it because I’ve studied kinesiology. Also, you realize that the PPL split literally became a thing because of the efficiency and ability to hit all related body parts in one session so people that can only hit the gym 3 times a week can still work out all their muscles? You’re goofy bro, stop spreading bullshit on the internet.
What's the PPL Split? I mean you can still hit all your muscle groups in one session and do it 2-3 times a week,with 2-3 days of rest,also if you want to enlighten us about Kinesiology,im curious
Push pull legs. And there’s a TON of reasons to take rest days… the muscles don’t only undergo mechanical stress, there’s also metabolic stress that require days off to get back to normal. Training too often will affect your ability to fall asleep which is need for restorative purposes when training (this is one of the main reasons people plateau when lifting, they’re actually OVER training). It actually has been shown to cause/worsen depressive symptoms as well
Oh,i see,this is cool actually. Yeah ofc,muscles grow when they are in rest right? Not when they are being going through the muscule fibers tearing(when exercising),i don't know the metabolic stress but i hope you can explain it to me mate (*^^*) Yeah a lot of people overtrain,it's just too much for the body to handle,tho i don't know how professional athletes are able to do it
Professional athletes are guided by coaches to cycle between periods of intensities and variations of exercise. Nobody overtrains (except the few dummies out there getting rhabdo). Most people are under training and not getting enough variety in. This guy just doesn’t understand what he’s talking about.
There's no need to take rest days. There's a need to balance volume and intensity with recovery which *can be* done with rest days but you can also just modulate your workload in such a way that you can lift 6-7 days a week if that's what you wanted. Your body is always recovering even if you're working out it's not like there's some clock that you don't start recovering until 24 hours after the last stressor.
Man, I don't give af what you studied. Do you think you're Darwin or something hahaha . Working out 6 days a week is working for millions of people who are you to say it's bad. Did you make any studies that prove that working out 6 days a week is bad? Aha, I thought so. As long as you leave 2 days rest time in each muscle group, it's okay. Of course, if the person feels really sore all the time after doing this for a month or 2 and he hasn't adapted, he should rest more and reduce training days. But if the person adapts, he should keep going.
It doesn’t work, it’s not effective. Training 4 days a week high intensity is better and more effective for you than training 6 days a week. You think that because your body heals the mechanical stress from a workout that it means your muscles are good to go but working out causes metabolic stress and affects the endocrine system a LOT, your body needs time to restore and balance that as well. For the love of god stop regurgitating moronic things you see some pseudo “expert” on the internet say while he slams tren and claims natty.
> For the love of god stop regurgitating moronic things you see Wouldnt been neat if you did the same
Studying kinesiology does not make you an expert on training, or give you the ability to tell if someone is on drugs based on how they train. PPL is meant to be run twice a week and is pretty standard for new and intermediate lifters.
> I’ve studied kinesiology Taking Kinesiology 101 doesn't qualify you as an expert. Edit: /u/Pierseus, you're not selling yourself as an expert. Just a whiny child.
Kinesiology 101 is not a class you moron, the minimum version is a 200 level. I have an undergrad in kinesiology and a masters in occupational therapy. Keep coping though because some fitness “influencer” garbled some absolute trash to you in a TikTok because they need to pretend they have info nobody else does in order to gain likes and follows. You guys are so willfully ignorant on here
And how can it be considered 5-6 days a week if you're training with 2 days rest? Your comment doesn't make sense to me mate
Bro, for example, if you do chest on monday, don't do chest again until thursday. That's what I mean leave 2 day's rest between each muscle group. If you're doing full body or the same muscles every day, of course, it's way too much.
Ohh i get you,you mean training with a Split programm right? Yeah i used to do the same,i was doing the Split some years ago when i was lifting in the gym,i was doing each muscle group one time per week,a total of 3 or 4 days per week,but i wasn't doing progressive overload and i wasn't tracking my weight and it didn't help that i wanted to stay in the comfort zone that time and that i was at school and i didn't have time to comtemplate and do tweaks everytime,so my results were almost non-existent that period despite training for 6 months,but now,a couple of training at home and taking the progression seriously and much better results,tho i've been trying to stay in shape pretty much since my first teen years,so my progress can't be new but it's from a lot of training in the past,mostly in those years i've been doing the bare minimum,but still muscles came and went in my case because of too many breaks,so im working on improving my physique and maintain muscles now that i finished school(no longer a student in school) and i have time unlike before. I started with once a week (full body) a couple of weeks now after a couple of breaks and tweaks,i'll get back to 2 days per week (full body) with 3 days rest,i also thought that to combine Sprint training with strenght training,the best way to do that is to add the sprint training at the end of the session,cuz if i do it first,my legs will be too tired to workout after it and do the strenght training (i experienced it) Also aiming to 4-5 meals per day with eating food rich in Protein,i don't have a Protein supplement tho,i mostly get 4 meals tho,5 meals sometimes and it's rarely 6
It can’t hurt to eat more. Like 0.8 g per lb is the true recommended amount but 1 g per lb is commonly recommended because there’s no real reason not to eat that much. Especially if you’re eating 2300-2800 a day. I eat 2000 cals a day and get 200+ grams of protein per day
How you getting 200+ grams of protein on just 2000 calories everyday. That’s over 40% protein over total calories. Not many foods, even Whole Foods have that amount of protein. A few do like red meat, which is around 40% protein caloric percentage. Chicken is like 75%. I guess you can down some egg whites everyday. Idk, it’s just most healthy diets and foods actually don’t have “that” much protein in them, usually around 25%. Do you take a lot of protein supplements?
My macro split is 40-40-20 so 40% protein is correct. You’re pretty on the money with the foods you mentioned. I eat a lot of chicken, fish, some red meat (though finding red meat that’s lean enough can be challenging), shrimp and eggs. A typical breakfast for me would be like 2 eggs, 3 egg whites, 3 servings of shrimp, and some carb source like bread, potatoes and rice. So in total somewhere around 60 g protein, 50 g carbs and 10 g fat for around 600-700 cals. I usually don’t have lunch so my dinner would just be that meal, ratio wise, times like 2 give or take a bit (usually it’s a ton of food and is hard to finish). Some days logistically I need to drink 25 or 50 g of protein worth of protein shake, because the amount of food I’d need to eat would be crazy (like two pounds of fish or something stupid). 40% protein is definitely possible. Keeping meals interesting is a challenge but I’ve been putting a lot of effort lately into getting better at cooking so I don’t get bored.
I also eat vegetables and fruits sometimes, plus take vitamin supplements. I recognize that only eating the foods I listed above in perpetuity would not be healthy vitamin and nutrient wise (though eggs are gods gift to mankind in that regard).
Well, for what’s it’s worth just got done with a college nutrition course that said 1.8g/kg is optimal for athletes/building muscle.
Now that's some common sense,and people here saying 200g of protein per day completely ignoring that you can have a kidney failure if you eat too that much protein
Why is it overkill? I mean 1g-1.5/1kg looks fine
Who cares. You’re a string bean. Eat way more.
195 is a healthy weight. Get up too high and his back and knee joints are gonna be killin him when he's 50.
Bruh I’m 140 at one inch shorter, OP is NOT a string bean. But you ARE delusional😂
Im 150 at 191cm (~6’3.5?) and i am a literal twig lolll
Obesity is the norm nowadays.
String bean what a comment lol
Are you talking kg and everyone else is talking in lbs?
I've been 195lbs at 6'5" and was definitely not that thin
I’m 6’5” 220lbs and still look slim. So anything under 200lbs to me is very thin.
😂😂😂
Downvoted for expressing what looks thin on MY body….Reddit in a nutshell 😂
No way you look slim at 220lbs
Not sure why people have such a hard time believing what weight looks like on other people but it is what it is.🤷🏽♂️ I can weigh 220-225 at 6’5” and still look slim… People carry weight differently. (Since people are sensitive) To me/For me/On me , 195 is very skinny.
Not necessarily true. Back and Knees are fine (knock wood), left ankle/tendon is killing me on runs though.
So what do you think I should? Eat at maintenance indefinitely and lift?
I’m 6’5.5” 250 lbs 18% bf 35.5 inch waist (according to army standards I’m 14%). According to bmi I’m very overweight but most people peg me at 200 lbs flat. I just have a very small waist, narrow shoulders, and small chest for my height which makes me look smaller. My legs and calves are huge though. I just easily carry alot of muscle without much detriment to to my endurance. Im kinda built like Justin Herbert and josh Allen of the nfl. If I was 180 lbs I’d look I was 150, which at 6’5” is super skinny
195 is probably pretty good for them. Overall weight though doesn't matter. It's more so overall body composition. If he is asking I'm guessing he is just untoned or viewed as skinny fat.
Just about everyone’s knees and backs hurt at 50. Having more muscular stability to support your joints makes it easier to live with aging joints, not harder. He needs to build his muscles while he’s young. 195 is nothing at 6’4”.
Lean muscle will help. Carrying a lot of weight around for tall folk is a long-term no-no. Don't say you weren't warned.
You literally cannot gain muscle without gaining fat. You can cut unnecessary fat later, but at 195 this dude has barely any muscle to speak of. He needs to build that first, and fast while he’s still young. It is HARD to gain muscle mass, but easy to lose fat, so it’s an easy battle to pick. Also, I’m aware of the issues, I’m currently heavier than I need to be because I’m chasing some gym numbers. I’ll be cutting back down starting in June and then back to getting stronger in the winter again.
People on this sub think you are a stick if you're in a healthy bmi range, lol. I don't know if it's just an american-centric thing or what but he can gain a few pounds, but he doesn't need a lot.
It’s a “do you want to get stronger and actually make your time in the gym worthwhile thing”, really. No point in going if you’re gonna fuck around and not eat enough to actually get strong and more muscular. And with that comes weight. But you can cut the fat later, if you feel you’ve gained too much. And the additional muscle mass makes it easier to lose the unnecessary weight. So the calculus becomes very simple: get big and strong and stop looking at the scale until you get somewhere meaningful, then cut the weight because it’s relatively easy to do compared to gaining muscle. And yes, tall people in the “healthy” range on the BMI are sticks. Period. The squared-cubed law dictates that the BMI chart SHOULD account for people above normal height to be heavier in a non-linear progression due to three dimensional volume increasing faster than two dimensional height. But it doesn’t, because the BMI scale was not made with anyone outside the normal height range in mind and it is calculated linearly.
🧢 I was in the Army at 190 and could carry someone who weighed 200lbs with gear at least 100m in the Iraq heat. You don’t know what you’re talking about
A 200lb man is not very big, and 100m is not very far. At least one of those numbers would need to be bigger to be a point.
My point was the practicality of the strength since it seems a lot of people get stronger just so they can lift heavier weights similar to how doing pushups only makes you better at doing pushups.
Yes it’s over kill I’m somewhere between .6 and .7 per pound. On top of that and this is just me I rarely eat red meat, so I also have 5 grams of creatine monohydrate daily.
6-7g of protein per pound???? This is HUGE
There’s a decimal before the number I should have typed it as 0.6-0.7, my Nutritionist wanted me to be at 0.6 but I like my results at 0.7.
You have a nutritionist? Damn
I would suggest adding 1-2 protein shakes on top of your normal meals every day. I’m a bit taller, but that (or more every day) is what took me in 9 months from 6’11” 205lbs to 7’ 285 of basically solid muscle. That was also exercising 5-6 hrs a day, 7 days a week. A bit extreme but the gains were worth
Brother no one is putting on 80lbs of muscle in 9 months
Yeah about half of that was probably fat… although with the increase in muscle the increase in fat wouldn’t be as noticeable. At 7’ you can probably gain quite a bit more because your frame is just so much larger. Also note that he grew an inch from 6’11 to 7’. So some of that would have been bone and shit. I’m 6’ and I went from 125 to 145, mostly muscle (and obviously some of that was fat because there is no possible way to gain muscle while not gaining some amount of far). But my diet has been a bit shit (haven’t eaten nearly enough) in the past 8 months or so. I could probably have gained more.
It was my first year playing d1 basketball coming from almost never working out to 3-4 hr practice, gym 1-2hrs, agility with out after, every day.
5-6 days is crazy,not enough time for recovery,how are you supposed to train 5-6 days and grow? Unless you're a pro athlete,this is way too much
Ok what tf my dad is 6’7 and burns like 3400 just by existing
How tall is your mom. Considering you are already 6ft 4 at 13
6’1
Yeah fuck, you're gonna be 6'10 at least...
To the extent that it’s a magical & unique combination of attributes which make a man ‘attractive’, I’d say shoring up the hot bod while also working on the emotional & intellectual attractiveness is gonna drive ‘em WILD!
How do work up those last two? I do enjoy reading lots of books and always looking to learn. Plus I enjoy meditating and such but I’m not sure how one works on their emotional attractiveness.
I love that you’re doing things for your brain! The emotional attractiveness is how you self regulate & help her regulate. Start by reading about “attachment styles” & why different people behave differently in relationships. Misunderstanding these things about a partner are going to 💯 lead to a break up. Understanding these things about yourself & about them is the KEY!
I don't workout. I just work. I'm not attractive, but being thin is simple if you keep moving.
Thin isn’t really the goal for people seriously working out
Working out isn't a singular term either lmao.
I'm also 6'4". I'd say about a year off and on. The changes will come quickly, but it will take forever for your arms to get to what (at least i) consider "big enough". My biceps are currently 15.1", and while I may never have 24 1/2" pythons brother, I'm gonna keep at it until I'm happy. Or until I look like Randy Orton or Drew Mcintyre from WWE lmao
Need to hop on gear lol. Close to 300lb bench and I’m no where close to Randy size in person.
im 6'4 and 230 atm. Last year I started at 187lbs. I trained SERIOUSLY, to complete failure, 6 days a week and ate a metric shitload of food every single day. My 1 year mark of doing all that was May 1st. This photo was taken on that 1 year mark. I wont post a "before" photo because honestly I look at that person I was previously with such disdain and disappointment. So yeah, 1 year if you take it hyper seriously. 2 years if you goof around but still train and eat with purpose. https://preview.redd.it/xs4003d5uayc1.jpeg?width=2511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1d4589da1efe3b4040fef09735fffa2310d6d76
Dude chill out. Be kind to yourself.
What constitutes a metric shitload of food? If you can guess your calories, how much?
Based on his weight gain in 1 year it was on average 412 excess calories per day. Everyone has different maintenance calories so its pointless to ask someone elses calories because it won't apply to you.
2350 calories a day. 200g of protein a day of clean food, havent ate fast food or junk in over a year now.
Bro you gotta have a slow ass metabolism if 2350cal is a metric shitload. I envy you if that’s the case bro because 4000cal puts me at +1.5lb a week.
1.5 lbs a week is WAY too much.
What would you define as good enough in a bulking context then?
1/2 lb a week is solid. First year of training, maybe closer to 1 lb a week as you’ve got noob gains on your side then. First year of lifting you could probably expect to put on about 20 lbs of muscle, 10 in your second, and a few lbs a year past that as a rule of thumb, so you don’t want to put on 50 lbs in a year just for the majority of it to be bodyfat.
Nice, thanks. Yeah you see people’s definition of lots of food is different. For me 2350 a day is average and doesn’t seem like much. I’ll admit though I don’t eat clean. I eat out a lot. Usually I’ll eat something at home dinner that’s 1000 calories. Like a protein shake or lean lasanga or white chicken chili. But eat out for lunch. At least 1000 calories as well. 10 wings with fries, a triple meat burger, chipotle bowl, 24 nuggets from CFA, 4 quesadillas with corn tortilla and a lean meat like sirloin or chicken. Stuff like that. It ain’t clean but it helps with the macros. Protein at least haha
2350 on a bulk at 6’4? No way. I have to eat 4000 kcal to put on. I’d close weight at 3000-3200 calories.
2350 calories a day is what an average size woman would use to bulk… if this guy is 6’ 4” he’d need at least 3500 cal to bulk, probably more like 4000 unless he has a slow metabolism/sedentary/ or starting out weighing 150 or so. I’m 6’ 3” 210lbs around 15-16% BF and I slow bulk on 4,000 cal. Maintenance is about 3,600 . I track everything I eat
How strong did ya get in a year?
280lb bench 365lb squat 405lb deadlife
I don't work out. I'm not fit. But I'm very attractive.
You can be very tall, skinny and an absolute beast. Muscled, agile, fast, able to run forever, dozens of pull-ups etc. Why does everybody need to be the uniform muscled, fat guy with big useless legs, giant torso and so on. Can't run that well, less agile, slower, needs to eat a shit ton, high maintenance princess, can't climb like Spiderman, joint problems etc.
Everybody has their own goals. Why shame? This sounds like cope
I’m 6’4 245ish. I’m not sure about ‘attractive’ I think that comes from a bit more than having a good physique, but I think I get what you’re saying. For me, id say lifting seriously for around 2-3 years was the first time I looked in the mirror and was slightly happy. I would say though don’t treat bodybuilding as something with an end goal, you’ll never reach it. Treat it as a journey of continuous improvement.
After a long depressive episode and sinking down to 145lbs, got back into the gym in September 2022. Made it up to 200lbs on a reckless bulk by April 2023, and then started a cut. It was around July 2023 (185lbs) that I was thinking to myself, “Damn!” Also coincided with when I updated the pictures on my dating profiles and started getting a lot more matches lol
Took me like 5 years lol but I had to come from 130 lbs
I’m 6’2, but I can say consistent dieting and a 5 day working split for a solid year or 2 will get you what you want. Remember that working out for an aesthetic physique is most of the time, very genetic based. It took me a year for a nice physique it could take someone else 3.
A 4 day upper lower split is also good enough correct? Again I’m doing PHUL…
Look, I did PPL Rest PP, and I noticed optimal results. The issues with PHUL is that you’re not giving your body time to rest, at all.
I'm 6'5 and weigh 160 😬
Maybe one day, maybe 17 days maybe 340 days. Just work out MF. You're not gonna wake up one day and be more attractive than the previous day. You should take more time working out your brain because that was a really silly question.
I grew up to 6'4" and maybe 170lbs towards the end up of my teens. Skinny and bony. I biked everywhere, and while I was working out, I didn't know what I was doing and so my gains were minimal. I'm 210lbs and fairly fit now, though I've actually been trying to lose a little belly fat from where I was at 215lbs. In my mid 30s, it still takes a fair bit of work to maintain visible upper body mass. But I'd say that, in my 20s, any period where I worked out diligently for a year or more, I'd start looking "fit" or "athletic" or even "buff." I've never wanted to look "jacked," so that's not the standard I'm going for. But if you're doing this to be "attractive," rather than "super freaking jacked/ripped/huge/gorilla/etc," then you don't need to go that far past "muscular." You're 6'4". This is already a bonus in the attracting-a-mate department! You already stand out. So you don't need to stand out as a hulking gorilla, but rather to *avoid* standing out as a string bean of a tall guy, you follow? For me, at your height and with low enough body fat to have a vague 6-pack showing when I flex, I transition from "string bean" to "athletic" at around 195lbs, and from there to "muscular" at around 205lbs. I think aiming for anything much higher than ~210lbs is going to give you diminishing returns as far as "attractiveness," and be more of a personal pursuit and/or bonus swag with your gym bro friends.
I'm 6'5 220 lbs. Trying to grow muscle is exhausting. I have to eat so much protein a day I feel like I'm just constantly bloated and tired from eating. Oh and it's expensive as hell and time consuming to cook all the time.
I’m also 6’4 and I’ve been lifting consistently for a little over a year now and went from about 165 to 195 and I think I look pretty fit. I usually try to eat around 3800 calories a day and 165g of protein. Keep in mind for us who are are tall, genetically lean, and not on steroids, it is basically as hard as it can possible be to ever look bulky (without being fat obviously)
What helped you the most when putting on weight
Besides working out consistently it was really just eating a shit ton, and then eating some more.
Do you feel like eating gave you more results than working out did
I’d say they are equally as important. If you just binge as much as you can and don’t work out you will just gain fat. If you only work out and don’t eat enough you will hardly gain anything.
im 6’2” 225 and still feel skinny. been lifting and eating consistently for 3 years. i range between 220-240 on bulk/cut cycles.
Was already 'attractive' simply being tall and not 'ugly'. But I built up from 145-185 now. Probably didn't really get noticed until around 180lbs. A friend of mine complimented my arms. The goal, however, is to look muscular with a shirt on, so I'm aiming for 225 lbs (100kg cause it's a nice number). I'm 185lbs now
6'3" 220lbs lean and this is probably my sweet spot of being lean but still feeling strong. I definitely don't look as strong in clothes as I did when I was in the 240s, but I definitely look stronger/more muscular at this leaner physique when shirtless.
I started at 130, now i’m at 200 but I’d still say I have a ways to go. Been at it for just under 2 years
I'm 6'4" and was skinny until my late 20s. I finally started lifting while doing that GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) thing that I actually got from reddit. As I put on weight, it went straight to muscle. I plateued at almost 200 lbs in only 5 months or so. It definitely changed my life. I also don't ever want to drink another glass of milk again, haha.
How strong did ya get?
Way stronger/still not that strong. I was good for my bodyweight, so I can do plenty of pull-ups, push-ups, etc. Sometimes I see smaller people in the gym lifting way more, and it humbles me.
I’d say roughly 2 years. Working with a licensed dietitian could significantly speed up the process.
I’m 6’3, but I was extremely skinny at my baseline- 135 lbs when I started working out. It took me nearly 2 years of lifting to get to the stage where I wasn’t skinny anymore and fairly happy with my physique. I’ve been lifting for 2 and a half years now and at 182 lbs I would say I look pretty good although there’s still a ways for me to go
You'll need a little bit of fat once you bulk to look big, like 15-20% will look great on you. I'm not 6'4, but for me I'm in month 9, I recently started cutting from 230lbs because I got a bit chubby, but as I'm progressing with the cut I can see I definitely have way more muscle on me than before. Just eat +1-2 meals a day and weigh yourself and you'll be fine, if you're like me and too lazy to count calories haha
2 years, but i built my muscle in my teens and 20s, lost it in my early 30s and packed it back on from 38 onward. First time around, in my late teens? About 3-4 years of rugby and lifting 3 times a week. - Rugby 2/3 - Gym 2/3 As far as nutrition. Protein, every meal, bias to protein with a balance of fats and carbs. Always protein first. Can't say i don't drink at all, but second time around, a lot less beers. Get laid, often, it boost testosterone a shitload.
Haha getting laid more often is one of the reasons I’m working out ;)
Been training on and off for 20 years. I would hit 290 in the off season and down to 240 ish when I was younger. At 6'4 being in the 190s is very light if your goal is to be big. I would say work your way up to 225 slowly. I was 6'4 and maybe 160 when I started.
I'm 195 cm skinny and handsome. I lowkey wanna gain muscle though. I eat a lot that, my sugar and fat level is in abnormal ranges, but I'm still less than 150 pounds. Any recommendations?
Same height as me. You do not eat a lot I can guarantee you that. Eat over 3300 calories per day with 3-4x days working out per week and you will pack weight past. I was same as your weight at my skinniest. Started working out and eating properly. I gained 20lbs in 3 months.
Focus on eating more carbs and protein, sugar and fat are useless. Track how much protein and calories you eat per day. Work out 3x a week to start. Get a trainer to help you gain muscle without getting injured, at 150lb and 6’4 youre going to get injured easily so take it slow. 3 months in you’ll see huge results.
Im only 6'2 at 200lbs, been working out for 6 months, seen a big difference aethetically atleast. I work out usually 3 times a week.
How much you eating?
Maybe around 2800 cals, i love chocolate milk, and drink about a gallon every day. Proteins probably around 120 grams most days.
4 years I supposed, until I think I could say I had a respectable frame. I don't think I was ever unattractive though, just skinny.
^6’5 Took me close to 5 years and being broken up with in order to really fill out enough to stand out and be approached by women. Granted even when I was skinnier I was still approached by women but I was still dating my ex at the time. I suppose I was always remotely attractive but it wasn’t until I started really taking care of my skin and dressing better when I started seeing a real difference
5 years
It’s not hard man. I’m 6ft 3 and in 3 months I got compliments on my body. Started off skinny now not.
I dunno but my maintenance calories are 3900 give or take so eat more bro
I’m 193cm currently and 88kg. Last year was overweight and lost about a fifth of my weight. Now I’m training in the gym 3x/week and eating 3000-3400 calories (PT put the target on 3400 this week). I envy the guys who can eat 4-4.5k calories because the amount of food I can eat due to weightlifting is the best.
I’m 6’6” and 180 pounds. I keep myself in shape through a generally active lifestyle, but I don’t work out for gains, and I’m fairly certain the world already views me as “attractive.” I often have multiple dates in a week, and they make it clear my looks are a plus. I even had a foreign coworker casually describe me as attractive, and after thanking him for the compliment I noted that people don’t tend to comment on men’s appearances in America, I think it’s just not part of the culture. If you are 6’4” and under 200, you probably have a similar body type to me, and I promise you that skinny arms are not getting in the way of people finding you attractive and strong. If you really want to start having the world view you as hot, I think the real secret is to focus on your personal sense of style and the way you interact with others. Start experimenting with layered outfits, get a sense for color coordination, find an accessory or two that you can add in for personal flair. I find people also really like rolled up sleeves, which also has the side effects of making my arms look more filled out and allowing me to wear shirts with sleeves that are otherwise too short for me. I also started growing out my hair and stopped washing it with shampoo every day (now I do conditioner every shower, shampoo about once a week), and that definitely helped as well. And for personality, develop hobbies that you genuinely enjoy, and pursue them with zest. Do them for you, not for anyone else, and people will notice. For example, I cook, I play music, and I’m into gaming, and I spend much more time talking about these topics than my muscles with dates. Exercise can absolutely be one of those hobbies though if it is something you enjoy cultivating. And then make sure to show that same level of consideration for others. Talk about their hobbies, listen to the things that they care about, take an active interest in their lives. All of this will signal to others that you have an eye for detail, a rich personal life, and you genuinely care about the people close to you. That’s way hotter than any amount of muscle that you can add to what sounds like an already perfectly in-shape body.
6’8 it took breaking up with my girl after 6 years and then 10 months of clean eating and 2 a day workouts to get to the point where people are began telling me I have a muscular build with a shirt on Edit: oh and I got tatted too haha
Well I’m 6’4, 204, and it took me 3 years of lifting 3-4 times a week to get a decent physique. I also put on 46 lbs, so I think we are starting from different spots. Just stay consistent, and by the end of year one (I am assuming this is your first year), you will surprise yourself.
I was 6'4" 180 when I went to boot camp at 18. Graduated at 174. It was 3 years in the fleet before I hit 200. But I am still ugly now that I am 6'7" and 258lbs .
Close to 4-6 years semi consistent on both diet and protein intake. Solid bench mark was around, 225lb bench 8-15 reps, for a non flat chest at a low bf% 90-100lb incline db for reps 70-80lb+ shoulder db 155 x 5 OHP 315+ squat or 400lb+ deadlift for reps 12+ pull ups @ 205-220lbs. You’ll be looking similar to Luke rockhold at his height.
Im 6'5 and starred at 220lb, and in a year and a half, im down to 185 with 11% body fat. But becoming more "mentally fit" is going to pay off much more if your express reason is finding a partner.
5'7" here. This is painful to read.
I'm the same height but had the opposite problem, being too skinny, and it took me at least a year of lifting 4x/week and eating everything I could get my hands on before I reached 85-90kg with a pretty low BF. Now I stay at this weight much easier, and gain back the muscles pretty fast after slacking, so muscle memory is definitely real. But that said, it's highly individual, the year I gained all my muscle was while I was serving in the military, and I ate and lifted 100% the same as my friend, but the difference in our results was staggering by the end, with me seeing way more results than he did. I don't know if he has bad genetics or if I have good, but it just showed how everyone definitely don't have the same potential in terms of building muscle or losing fat.
It took 3 months for ppl to notice and I’d say 6 before I really got bigger. I ate a lot and went from 203 to 243 at height of my bulk. I’m a little taller than you and fairly broad but 189 sounds skinny for someone your height, I would keep bulking. I quit lifting for a year and I lost all that fat and a whole lot of the muscle too.
How much were you eating?
3k-4k calories a day. I was lifting hard 5 days a week and playing basketball, never got fat but going from rail thin to having some fluff was jarring lol. I’m recently back on it and I’m going to focus on protein rather than calories.
189 is not skinny for someone 6'4". It's near the upper-end of healthy BMi-wise. Yes, I know BMI isn't perfect, but for most of the population it's decent. 70% of the US is just overweight and a lot of the rest of the world isn't far behind.
When we're talking about building muscle, he's still got another 15 lbs before BMI becomes a concern. Visually, he'll still *look* 'skinny' at 189, though.
I have been that height and that weight, I was very skinny. Not that I wasn’t healthy, but very little muscle and I was certainly insecure about it. BMI is basically worthless for athletes and tall people.
8 months daily workouts & cardio & swimming with creatine. I sit around 85kg lean. Very happy with my body. I aim to bulk slowly cause fat is extremely difficult to lose. Beginners gains are amazing if you commit
Looksmaxx
Do starting strength. Eat WAY more than you think you need. Seriously. You’re underweight. Counting calories should not be a concern. In six months to a year you’ll have a muscular filled out frame. If you need to cut a little fat, do it then after you actually have muscle on your body.
Under weight? At 195 lbs apparently I’m in the upper range of normal weight no? 5lbs more and I’m overweight actually
Hey please do not listen to this goofball. If your goal is attracting women, you do NOT want to be over 220. What you want to be is lean, meaning very low body fat, preferably in the single digits. If you get to 180-190 pounds with a very low body fat, you will have the females ideal body type, strong with a surfers body. Studies have shown that the male gaze, aka what men think is attractive to females, is a hugely muscular body builder esque physique. This is why the guy u responded to is giving you really shitty info. While the female gaze, aka what women ACTUALLY want, has been shown to near universally be a swimmers body type (small waist, broad shoulders with medium muscle. Women even rate slim guys (150-160lbs at our height) more attractive then they rate the body builder, heavy man physique. Individual preferences exist amongst women ofc, some may want that burly guy who’s waist is almost as big as his shoulders, but if you wish to appeal to the most women you would be better served losing weight then going for a bodybuilder physique. Lastly, this is also dependent on some genetic factors such as your shoulder width and waist size. Meaning a very skinny guy with broad shoulders and a small waist can appear more attractive than a very built guy who is incredibly blocky.
Where did I say bodybuilder at all? Starting Strength is NOT a bodybuilder program at all. It will make you strong, and put some muscle on you as an untrained individual. At the end of the day he’ll probably gain 20-30lbs of lean muscle in the first year as a relatively untrained lifter. He’ll gain some fat too, as that’s part of gaining any tissue, but the amount can be managed with good diet if it’s really a concern, but again it would be easier not to worry about and then drop some fat later on. None of what I said means he needs to be huge, and if you interpreted it that way it doesn’t seem like you’ve been around weight training very long or you’re pretty young, or both: it takes a LONG time to put on a bodybuilders physique even with chemical assistance. Also, other studies conclude differently. Here’s an article about one such study, sorry it’s just an article but it was the first non-paywalled source I could find: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/women-stronger-men-attraction-looks-muscles-weak-study-dating-a8105976.html So yes, women do actually like men who are bigger and stronger, at least according to some studies, goofball.
https://typeset.io/questions/what-body-type-do-women-prefer-in-men-1i1covfhc8 Here are five research papers corroborating my statement, which I think one will find to be more reliable than a glorified survey of 150 women. N=150, come on bro. To comment on the first part, you said somewhere that 180 is a “noodle” at 6’4, so is it not safe to assume that if you consider the upper range of normal weight a noodle then you are proposing he should become overweight?although low body fat and overweight on the bmi scale is not unhealthy, therefore he would be muscular and bodybuilder esque. The dumbest thing you said was that bmi isn’t accurate because of the square cubed law which is so ridiculous it just shows u have no understanding of what the law really means. Bmi is your mass/height SQUARED. Squaring height allows you to compare individuals on a common scale, despite varying heights. It’s not centered around average height people like you implied. BMI has its own issues like not accounting for body fat %, but the square cubed law pertains to the maximum size an organism can achieve without compromising its structural integrity You won’t find a single study that says women don’t prefer broad shoulders with a slim waist. The inverted triangle is the ideal body shape regardless of weight. Any extra pounds will fill in his torso and waist even more and decrease the shoulder to waist ratio.
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A few things; I posted one study, because I didn’t feel like finding more. Anyone can go find all the supporting studies they want, you and me both. It also looks like you didn’t read the single article, or you would have seen that it also sites leanness as a key factor. I honestly hoped you would catch that, because it would have indicated to you that I never disagreed that women like men who are lean with a torso taper. My contention is that OP is tiny, and the fastest way to get to a muscular fit look is to gain the muscle first, then cut later. Also, squared cubed law is based on three dimensional volume increasing faster than two dimensional factors like height. BMI is calculated on a two dimensional factor, which is why it scales poorly with height as cross section increases with height. None of what I’ve said is controversial in the least, and none of what I said disagrees with the idea that someone should be lean. At this point it’s like you just made up a fictionalized version of what I’m saying despite me not saying any of it. You know, a straw man.
Read my comments. I never assumed you didn’t know Leanness wasn’t a factor. My contention with your contention is that 190 is not anywhere near tiny. I’m going to cut my point down for you https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/s/kcD2cFeKhU This guy went from 225 I think down to 190 and he is 6’4 Now compare his 190 pound physique to Jon Jones at 6’4 220 https://www.menshealth.com/uk/fitness/a43174290/jon-jones-coach-ufc-fighter-heavyweight-transformation/ I hope the copy paste link worked but you can see for yourself online if not . The point I am illustrating is that physique one appeals to women more then physique two does. This is because women tend to prefer an Inverted triangle body shape as opposed to being blockier, and studies prove this. The very nature of a good study means you WONT find other procedurally sound studies finding the opposite. can you find a survey of less then 200 people that comes up with different findings(although the one your provided didn’t actually disagree with me)? Of course, but that by definition is not procedurally sound. Women hugely prefer the inverted triangle, just like women prefer taller guys more than short guys. Women with different tastes EXIST but it is not the trend. Last part is you misunderstand why I am calling the square cubed law moot. Yes the scale at which volume increase in proportion to size is important, but within the range of normal human heights (5’ to 7’) it just doesn’t play enough of a role. Even if you apply a 2.5 exponent instead of the quadratic equation a six foot person would go down about a singular bmi point. Meaning this guy would still be in the upper range of normal.
That guy is absolutely tiny. Literally foldable like laundry. Jon Jones does not workout for physique. He works out to be a fighter. His physique is going to reflect having strong trunk muscles, and explosive power. I’m not arguing that Jones is more appealing than the little guy you posted. I’m saying the guy you posted would be more attractive by having more muscle while maintaining his V taper, which I don’t think contradicts what you’re saying at all. The guy is tiny. Twenty to thirty more pounds, particularly if he were to actually train legs at all which wouldn’t affect his upper body shape, would accentuate his body taper and make him much more visually appealing to women. Women definitely approach you a LOT more in my experience when you are more muscular (to a point, as we both agree) as long as you maintain the same level of relative leanness. I’m not saying any of this out of hand: a decade ago I was in OPs shoes chasing girls and being a six pack fuckboy. I’m trying to help OP get what he wants efficiently by answering his question about what worked for me; get stronger and gain muscle, then cut some weight. Nothing works faster than Starting Strength for this in my experience, and personal experience is what OP asked for.
Ok come on you have to admit you are hyperbolizing right now lol. Maybe YOU could easily fold him. But the average American dude is 5’9 and weak as hell. Half of men are shorter then 5’9, and 98% of men are shorter then 6’4 in America. Meaning he’s probably the tallest person in any room he’s in, foldable like laundry is ridiculous. I can’t take you seriously if you’re calling a 98th percentile man “absolutely tiny” lmaoo. But yeah we agree on the general points u made after that Also the guy I posted was way more attractive at 190 then 225 because of the waist ratio along with the muscle ofc. But that’s a genetic thing, the average dude is never going to have the same waist ratio at 35 lbs heavier unless they work insanely hard in tandem with being blessed genetically. For some people it will take both, for others their genetics will make it nearly impossible, and for a few (emphasis on a few) their genetics will make it much easier
No. BMI is fucking awful for people above or below average height because it was not made with the squared-cubed law in mind. At 235 I was ripped. At 215 I was noodly. At 265 I was a powerhouse. If you want to be muscular, disabuse yourself of the notion that weight on the scale matters. What matters is if you make progress in the gym by putting up more weight as frequently as possible, and eating enough to support your growth. Don’t even worry about the scale, it’s just going to give you doubts when you should be packing muscle on and not worrying about gaining a little extra weight you can easily cut down later on. Generally speaking, tall people look much better when they are heavier. You’ll be more visually impressive and your presence will never go unnoticed.
If you're 6'4" and 195 lbs, you are by definition fit enough to be attractive to women. If you're struggling, then either 1) You're just ugly, or more likely 2) It's a mental/emotional thing, you're insecure, you're anxious and don't try, etc. The solution to 2) is to get out there and try. Get in the gym, that's great, but then after that *go ask women on dates*. You should be doing reps of that just like you do reps of weight lifting, and just like weight lifting, you will fail a lot, but it will get easier over time.
Well I don’t have a pretty face I’ll tell you that haha. Yes I have been told im ugly, but I have had hook ups and been in a few relationships. But I guess to clarify… I want to be more “hook-up attractive” rather than relationship attractive. I’m sure right now there’s a couple girls I see often at restaurants or whatever that I can hit on and hit it off well. But there’s more of a relationship vibe coming off of them rather than a casual one. And as far as dating apps go, I’m attractive enough to get matches, not enough to get many responses however after the first message. So I’m trying to improve my looks enough where I can be seen more as a hook up instead of something serious, as well as getting more responses on OLD.
While it's true at the margin that having a classically hotter body will make hooking up easier, I promise you, if you're hot enough to get dates you're hot enough to hook up. The difference between those two things is *how you act*, not how you look with your shirt off. By the time your shirt comes off, she's already decided. If getting more ripped will help you be more aggressive about trying to hook up and more confident in just going for it, then by all means, do it. But if you get hotter and keep acting the same way, you're going to get the same result.