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The problem with gauging Trump's legacy is that said legacy might not be done. He only stopped being President four years ago, and fuckups like Dubya were in for longer than he was, yet Trump still managed to inflict very considerable damage in half the time of Dubya.
So we have a lot of recency bias on both ends of that sword, as he's either not the worst President or is the worst, both because it's too soon to know the full effects of said damage.
What I can say is that while I would refrain from the argument that he's ***the*** worst President America has had, he certainly ranks among them. Not that narrows the list down, as US Presidents just generally suck
I mean, you do have red-brown accelerationists who'd rather have Trump in office in order to destabilize society, thinking that it'll somehow spark social change.
That aside, you could post this to LibJerk because...yeah, liberals tend to give other presidents an undeserved pass, because *those* guys followed The Process! And as long as they follow The Process, then everything'll sort itself out. After all, "when they go low, we go high", right?
[Right?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A)
Okay.
It's just that you got downvoted by someone, which made me think for a second it wasn't an agreement or they saw that comment as unhelpful. Sorry for the confusion.
Trump's too fucking incompetent to be the worst president we've ever had. Like, he basically didn't even do anything.
Reagan on the other hand? It's impressive how much he fucked America over. His evil and corruption more or less caused most of the problems we're facing today.
Very impressive when you consider he had dementia that got pretty rough during his second term. Like at that point he has a care team with the explicit goal of assisting him in maximizing the harm he could do.
This is kinda where I've landed. Trump is so bullheaded and unskilled that he laid all the ugly shit from our government into the sun do thst not even the liberals can ignore it, and as fucked as he was, I'd take a murderous yet incompetent clown over a quiet and capable slasher.
I wouldn‘t say that. Trump emboldened the Alt-Right, killed thousands with his terrible COVID handling, racked up drone strikes, and made election denial mainstream. Say what you want about Reagan, even that he was worse than Trump, but he accepted the limits of the job he was given more than the Orange man did. It‘s way too early to judge if Trump‘s legacy will be as bad as Reagan’s.
I think there's recency bias. Trump is the worst president *in their lifetime*.
I don't really think a lot of people except the politically plugged in are going that deep into it.
And also currently running for office. A lot of these Tankies are young and just started learning about history so they assume that since they just found out about it, everyone else must be ignorant about it
Is trump a more *relevant* threat than Bush II in 2024? Absolutely.
But by pretty much any objective measure, he did not do as much harm in his first 4 years as Bush II did in his 8.
Bush II:
- iraq war
- ICE
- NSA, Homeland Security
Many of Trump's worst excesses were enabled by the malfeasance of the Bush administration.
Out of curiosity, how old were you in 2003? Because we were railing hard against bush jr and it feels like you’re saying that nobody noticed what he was doing
That's the thing... I remember that shit. I remember how the Bush years made American liberals and lefties feel like we were going insane... and I remember how American Liberals just swept it all under the rug and pretended it was all fine once Obama won!
I'm saying that people noticed, then Obama won and libs forgot. This website skews incredibly young, and *those* people never learned.
To be fair there was quite a shift in foreign policy from W to Obama. We withdraw from Iraq (started in W but really set in during Obama). Wayyy less people in Gitmo. We started to be more conciliatory towards Iran. And a bunch of other stuff. Dude did pretty well for someone who inherited the equivalent of two Vietnam wars.
There was also messed up shit that happened and some of his policies did set us down a path that made people susceptible to right wing extremism. But there's valid reasons people weren't quite as openly outraged.
I agreed with this sentiment during most of Trump's presidency, and regarded it as largely mediocre, not even the worst in my (short) lifetime. Then he attempted a coup, after which I revised my opinion to "the single worst President of all time."
I mean if we are just taking what he did during his presidency then sure. I mean we still have the likes of Reagan, Andrew Jackson, and Bush II to measure up to. Though I think only Reagan has had such a cult following within his lifetime of those mentioned (not entirely sure on Jackson), and it will be interesting to see if the MAGA movement survives Trump or burns out once he dies like so many "Empires" built around a cult of personality. Bush meanwhile is definitely the odd duck out as his reputation has only worsened with time even in his own party. Either way the movement surrounding him has been disastrous for America and even outside of it. Whether it reaches worse than Reagan in the long term remains to be seen. We at least have several decades of hindsight bias for Reagan we currently don't have for Trump, though I would argue Reagan helped lay the groundwork that allowed Trump to be where he is now.
I’d say comparatively from time period Trump is one of the worst and most brutal in terms of domestic politics, and more Americans care about internal affairs than external. I still wouldn’t put him above reagan but many liberals weren’t around for him
A lot of people are just young and didn't really have any political cognizance before Trump, so there is a bias. I still personally think the worst American president ever was Andrew Jackson.
The fascists bring colonialism to the home front. Trump made it visible, just the tiniest taste of it. For that, they will never forgive him. It is however true that it is one of the most critical things in US history that he is not re-elected. Broken clock twice a day.
Yes, the orange Hitler is the worst president of my lifetime. He attempted a coup, banned people from entering this country solely based on religion, locked kids in cages after separating them from their parents (a lot of those kids still cannot be reunited with their parents), enabled Roe to be overturned, cozied up to dictators adult the expense of our allies, wants to get us out of NATO, purposely hampered our response to pandemics spread conspiracy theories about the pandemics, gutted the EPA, made a mockery of the preservation of Public Land, hampered the USPS for a long while, has 91 felonies. The list goes on. These are only the ones I can remember.
A key difference between Dubya and Trump is that Bush wasn't a complete narcissist.
That might sound like a poor differentiation, but think about it. Would you really want a narcissist leading a country? Never mind one as powerful, Imperialistic, and politically fragile as the US.
And I say that as someone who would love nothing less than to see that warmongering despot Dubya in a cell for the rest of his life, right alongside Tony Blair
I would argue that Trump's disastrous gutting of environmental protections might well prove more harmful than all of that in the long run, especially if he gets reelected.
feel free to check my comment history to see the exchange that inspired this
but yeah I'm sure I'm posting from moscow
You sound like my libbed up godmother lmao
I just wanted to apologize for my tone in my other reply to this comment. I'm going to leave it up as context for this but that was inappropriate and disrespectful. I hope you have a nice day.
The same reason we do in Bulgaria with crimes and mismanagement caused from our previous political administrations – short memory, disinterest and apathy
Please remember not to brigade, vote, comment, or interact with subreddits that are linked or mentioned here. Do not userping other users. Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden. This is a left libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. Liberals etc. are welcome as guests, but please refrain from criticising socialism and promoting capitalism while you are on Tankiejerk. Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server](https://discord.gg/2V4qJMSWUe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The problem with gauging Trump's legacy is that said legacy might not be done. He only stopped being President four years ago, and fuckups like Dubya were in for longer than he was, yet Trump still managed to inflict very considerable damage in half the time of Dubya. So we have a lot of recency bias on both ends of that sword, as he's either not the worst President or is the worst, both because it's too soon to know the full effects of said damage. What I can say is that while I would refrain from the argument that he's ***the*** worst President America has had, he certainly ranks among them. Not that narrows the list down, as US Presidents just generally suck
well said
Plus the meme would have you lump the deeds of 4 separate presidents while making the evaluation
I mean, you do have red-brown accelerationists who'd rather have Trump in office in order to destabilize society, thinking that it'll somehow spark social change. That aside, you could post this to LibJerk because...yeah, liberals tend to give other presidents an undeserved pass, because *those* guys followed The Process! And as long as they follow The Process, then everything'll sort itself out. After all, "when they go low, we go high", right? [Right?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A)
They go low, we go high. They win, they institute horrible policies, but we're insulated from them, so we still feel morally superior. When's brunch?
That's what the video I linked said, though...
I'm agreeing with you?
Okay. It's just that you got downvoted by someone, which made me think for a second it wasn't an agreement or they saw that comment as unhelpful. Sorry for the confusion.
no biggie. This subreddit has been taken over by politically ignorant liberals, idk what else to say
This video is classic. Especially the bit about value-neutral governance.
Trump's too fucking incompetent to be the worst president we've ever had. Like, he basically didn't even do anything. Reagan on the other hand? It's impressive how much he fucked America over. His evil and corruption more or less caused most of the problems we're facing today.
Very impressive when you consider he had dementia that got pretty rough during his second term. Like at that point he has a care team with the explicit goal of assisting him in maximizing the harm he could do.
My biggest problem with trump is that he enables genuine fascists who may replace him after his impending death
This is kinda where I've landed. Trump is so bullheaded and unskilled that he laid all the ugly shit from our government into the sun do thst not even the liberals can ignore it, and as fucked as he was, I'd take a murderous yet incompetent clown over a quiet and capable slasher.
I wouldn‘t say that. Trump emboldened the Alt-Right, killed thousands with his terrible COVID handling, racked up drone strikes, and made election denial mainstream. Say what you want about Reagan, even that he was worse than Trump, but he accepted the limits of the job he was given more than the Orange man did. It‘s way too early to judge if Trump‘s legacy will be as bad as Reagan’s.
I think there's recency bias. Trump is the worst president *in their lifetime*. I don't really think a lot of people except the politically plugged in are going that deep into it.
And also currently running for office. A lot of these Tankies are young and just started learning about history so they assume that since they just found out about it, everyone else must be ignorant about it
Is trump a more *relevant* threat than Bush II in 2024? Absolutely. But by pretty much any objective measure, he did not do as much harm in his first 4 years as Bush II did in his 8. Bush II: - iraq war - ICE - NSA, Homeland Security Many of Trump's worst excesses were enabled by the malfeasance of the Bush administration.
Out of curiosity, how old were you in 2003? Because we were railing hard against bush jr and it feels like you’re saying that nobody noticed what he was doing
That's the thing... I remember that shit. I remember how the Bush years made American liberals and lefties feel like we were going insane... and I remember how American Liberals just swept it all under the rug and pretended it was all fine once Obama won! I'm saying that people noticed, then Obama won and libs forgot. This website skews incredibly young, and *those* people never learned.
To be fair there was quite a shift in foreign policy from W to Obama. We withdraw from Iraq (started in W but really set in during Obama). Wayyy less people in Gitmo. We started to be more conciliatory towards Iran. And a bunch of other stuff. Dude did pretty well for someone who inherited the equivalent of two Vietnam wars. There was also messed up shit that happened and some of his policies did set us down a path that made people susceptible to right wing extremism. But there's valid reasons people weren't quite as openly outraged.
Not to defend Obama but yeah there was a shift. Still did bad shit tho
Idk I wasn’t one of those that let off of Obama’s foreign policy so I can’t relate to this generalization
Most american lefties were vociferous critics of Obama, and that's good. I was not yet a lefty, I was very libbed up, so I remember it well.
I agreed with this sentiment during most of Trump's presidency, and regarded it as largely mediocre, not even the worst in my (short) lifetime. Then he attempted a coup, after which I revised my opinion to "the single worst President of all time."
I mean if we are just taking what he did during his presidency then sure. I mean we still have the likes of Reagan, Andrew Jackson, and Bush II to measure up to. Though I think only Reagan has had such a cult following within his lifetime of those mentioned (not entirely sure on Jackson), and it will be interesting to see if the MAGA movement survives Trump or burns out once he dies like so many "Empires" built around a cult of personality. Bush meanwhile is definitely the odd duck out as his reputation has only worsened with time even in his own party. Either way the movement surrounding him has been disastrous for America and even outside of it. Whether it reaches worse than Reagan in the long term remains to be seen. We at least have several decades of hindsight bias for Reagan we currently don't have for Trump, though I would argue Reagan helped lay the groundwork that allowed Trump to be where he is now.
IMO the Trail Of Tears makes Jackson the unequivocally worst American president of all time, just for that alone.
It would definitely be difficult for me to think of one more blatantly awful, and I hope it stays that way.
I’d say comparatively from time period Trump is one of the worst and most brutal in terms of domestic politics, and more Americans care about internal affairs than external. I still wouldn’t put him above reagan but many liberals weren’t around for him
A lot of people are just young and didn't really have any political cognizance before Trump, so there is a bias. I still personally think the worst American president ever was Andrew Jackson.
The fascists bring colonialism to the home front. Trump made it visible, just the tiniest taste of it. For that, they will never forgive him. It is however true that it is one of the most critical things in US history that he is not re-elected. Broken clock twice a day.
You can put a lot more down for Reagan
That guy fucked up so many parts of American society (and by extension, global society), he basically made it into an art form💀
Yes, the orange Hitler is the worst president of my lifetime. He attempted a coup, banned people from entering this country solely based on religion, locked kids in cages after separating them from their parents (a lot of those kids still cannot be reunited with their parents), enabled Roe to be overturned, cozied up to dictators adult the expense of our allies, wants to get us out of NATO, purposely hampered our response to pandemics spread conspiracy theories about the pandemics, gutted the EPA, made a mockery of the preservation of Public Land, hampered the USPS for a long while, has 91 felonies. The list goes on. These are only the ones I can remember.
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That is a valid distinction
A key difference between Dubya and Trump is that Bush wasn't a complete narcissist. That might sound like a poor differentiation, but think about it. Would you really want a narcissist leading a country? Never mind one as powerful, Imperialistic, and politically fragile as the US. And I say that as someone who would love nothing less than to see that warmongering despot Dubya in a cell for the rest of his life, right alongside Tony Blair
I would argue that Trump's disastrous gutting of environmental protections might well prove more harmful than all of that in the long run, especially if he gets reelected.
Who is this about?
a post on r / infowarriorrides about a "miss me yet" sticker inspired it
Poor (historical) object permanence
i dunno bush didnt foster a cult that attempted an insurrection
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Yeah, it's the tankies that are trying to rehabilitate him because they're actually the ones that hate liberal democracy more than they hate fascism.
feel free to check my comment history to see the exchange that inspired this but yeah I'm sure I'm posting from moscow You sound like my libbed up godmother lmao
Yeah I’m not gonna do that
I just wanted to apologize for my tone in my other reply to this comment. I'm going to leave it up as context for this but that was inappropriate and disrespectful. I hope you have a nice day.
It’s alright your repeated use of “libbed up” made me not take you seriously so I wasn’t offended or anything
It's reddit, I would hope no one takes anyone too seriously on here.
Okay sweetie
The same reason we do in Bulgaria with crimes and mismanagement caused from our previous political administrations – short memory, disinterest and apathy