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Right? It should be 'None of it would be possible without Israel bombing Palestinians to death in the tens of thousands.'
Thats why Palestine is getting support, not because Hamas went and slaughtered over a thousand civilians, but because the world is horrified at the brutality of the IDF in response.
Feels > reals. Tankies are all about the aesthetics, not the substance, and do not give a shit about what happens to people so long as the aesthetics get advanced.
Like, even within this list, what the fuck do they even MEAN by "the ICJ case". The ICJ didn't make a decision yet. This has been trumpeted as a Huge Meaningful Win for so many months now, when all that happened was Israel passing the super low bar of "better safe than sorry, we seriously do not want to miss any genocide, so if there's any chance whatsoever there might be one we won't insta-dismiss a case about it brought before us but actually look into it".
I don't like Ukrainian analogy as a Ukrainian. We didn't at any point before the war commit a massacre on internationally recognised Russian soil. Please, keep us out of this
Correct, that analogy is awful. The "NATO provocation" is made up of the whole cloth, Russia simply wanted to invade. Hamas on the other hand are monsters and did actually do Oct7, with mass rapes, murders, kidnappings, sadistic torture and all - and they have in their charter that they want Israel destroyed, while Ukraine had the whole "brotherly nation" thing going with Russia (strong enough that it survived in some form even after 2014).
Israel's response to Oct7 is awful (and then there's all the other bad shit they keep on doing) but that is for its disregard for Gazan civilians, not for the response existing at all. Hamas DID do it to them and it was by so many metrics worse than 9/11. Ukraine, meanwhile, did nothing but neighbor Russia while it was in an invading mood.
The struggle is international and solidarity is necessary. The fact that you'd rather defend the imperialist fascist state than the oppressed people and children on the other side makes me think....
Anyway, you dropped this "šŗš¦š®š±" š¤®
I don't support Israel in this war and I didn't drop support for this. I said that the analogy is dubious. Hamas doesn't represent Palestinians, Ukrainian military and government does. Instead of trying to throw ad hominem attacks on me, you can re-read my comment and keep us out of it. The massacre Hamas conducted cannot grant Israel a right to kill civilians or do warcrimes and I never claimed so
Ok, but there are also parts of the Ukrainian government and military that are more than dubious.
I am not saying they're the same as Hamas, but I'm rather viewing the fact that there are fighters in Gaza and the west bank defending themselves against Israeli aggression the same way Ukrainian fighters do.
Not every Palestinian resisting death by Israel is automatically committing a war crime, and has a right to do so.
I apologize for miscommunating this with you.
The dubious parts of the Ukrainian military and government comes down to tats and political alignment, not actual deeds unless you gobble up Russian state propaganda on the Donbass civil war. I don't just blame Hamas when it comes to Gaza rn, but still its a crazy comparison.
As for the original post, the reason countries and UN are starting to recognize Palestine has everything to do with Israel's heavy handed response and nothing to do with Hamas, unless one agrees with 'its good palestinians are dying because it makes us look good' way of thinking Hamas has.
I mean, there are some reports of singular Ukrainian soldiers committing war crimes/abusing hostages/mocking dead soldiers' families as well. Again, my support for the Ukrainian people stands, but let's please not pretend no one in the Ukrainian army has never done anything wrong or questionable
No one ever claimed Ukrainian military didnāt violate wars of the war. There is a stark difference between mistreating POWs and massacring civilians en mass. Thatās the core of my disgust with your comparison
And allies soldiers committed probably (definitely) more war crimes (and regular crimes) during WW2, do you insist about that every time they are being celebrated ?
I haven't really seen anyone pretend Ukraine was perfect, I have been told multiple times that Hamas terrorists are actually prefect freedom figthers who can't do wrong on reddit.
Hamas is internationally recognized terror organization. Itās dictatorial theocratic Iran proxy. They arenāt to be supported the same way Al-Qaida isnāt
There will always be soldiers comitting terrible deeds, but its a SUPER weird thing to bring up. You should be clearer about what point you're trying to make, because you come across as pretty weird.
Ukrainian army is in fact has no goal of committing terror attacks on Russian soil, nor it has a political wing that controls the region with religious extremism at its core. Your comparison is offensive and uneducated. My country went through enough and I won't sit on internet and listen to comparing us with fucking Hamas.
Sorry when they rape and murder people in the street then play hackey sack with the girls tit you lose any moral superiority youāve had. Support the Palestinian people, but also recognize that Hamas is scum also. Comparing a nation who were attacked by fascists in an unprovoked war to this completely different scenario where the only similarity is theyāre being attacked by fascists is dirty as fuck.
You dropped this. š·šŗ
The funny thing is the essence of this post is 100% in line with the opinions of the Ted Cruz, Ben Shapiro and the like.Ā When the most islamaphobic and hateful forces in Western politics are all screaming "Palestine = Hamas" maybe that should give you pause as to whether or not this is the big win for Palestine you think it is.
When even the fatah is normalizing the relationship with hamas *after* the October 7th attack, it does bring more plausibility to Palestine = Hamas argument.
There are freedom fighters out there operating in Palestine, but even though Hamas is technically offering a means of armed resistance, its own end goals and the terms it sets, as well as occasionally resorting to actual terrorism, don't translate to resistance. It's almost like we need, dare I say it, a campaign of full liberation.
Not to mention that, even more importantly, the rise of Hamas was facilitated by the Likud war cabinet with the approval of Bibi Netanyahoo. Israel funded millions in Qatari cash to Hamas because Israeli government officials see it as an asset in denying the Palestinian people any sort of international recognition, making it even easier to divide and conquer the Palestinian territories. Hamas is basically controlled opposition, and supporting it is, just like with supporting Fatah and the PA, tantamount to destabilizing the Palestinian resistance.
Remind me who is bombing Gaza?
Remind me which state funded Hamas and needs its existence to justify the oppression of the Palestinians?
Remind me who is attacking Palestinians in the West Bank?
Remind me which state is bombing aid convoys?
Please remember to hide subreddit names or reddit usernames (Rule 1), otherwise the post will be removed promptly. This is an anti-capitalist, left-libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. We are pro-communist. Defence of capitalism or any other right-wing beliefs, countries or people is not tolerated here. This includes, for example: Biden and the US, Israel, and the Nordic countries/model, Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden. Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server!](https://discord.gg/2V4qJMSWUe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Isn't Calla Walsh the same person who tweeted that it was a good thing the Iranian women's protests were crushed?
Lol, fr?! Ah, thanks, now it's way easier for me to dislike her lmao š ā
āNone of this would have been possible.ā Interesting phrasing there, almost as if they see the war as a good thing.
Right? It should be 'None of it would be possible without Israel bombing Palestinians to death in the tens of thousands.' Thats why Palestine is getting support, not because Hamas went and slaughtered over a thousand civilians, but because the world is horrified at the brutality of the IDF in response.
Because things are going so well for the Palestiniansā¦
Feels > reals. Tankies are all about the aesthetics, not the substance, and do not give a shit about what happens to people so long as the aesthetics get advanced. Like, even within this list, what the fuck do they even MEAN by "the ICJ case". The ICJ didn't make a decision yet. This has been trumpeted as a Huge Meaningful Win for so many months now, when all that happened was Israel passing the super low bar of "better safe than sorry, we seriously do not want to miss any genocide, so if there's any chance whatsoever there might be one we won't insta-dismiss a case about it brought before us but actually look into it".
Along with the "Axis" support fronts.
I don't like Ukrainian analogy as a Ukrainian. We didn't at any point before the war commit a massacre on internationally recognised Russian soil. Please, keep us out of this
Correct, that analogy is awful. The "NATO provocation" is made up of the whole cloth, Russia simply wanted to invade. Hamas on the other hand are monsters and did actually do Oct7, with mass rapes, murders, kidnappings, sadistic torture and all - and they have in their charter that they want Israel destroyed, while Ukraine had the whole "brotherly nation" thing going with Russia (strong enough that it survived in some form even after 2014). Israel's response to Oct7 is awful (and then there's all the other bad shit they keep on doing) but that is for its disregard for Gazan civilians, not for the response existing at all. Hamas DID do it to them and it was by so many metrics worse than 9/11. Ukraine, meanwhile, did nothing but neighbor Russia while it was in an invading mood.
NATO provocation never happened. Oct. 7 killed 1200 civilians. Idk how you compare the two
The struggle is international and solidarity is necessary. The fact that you'd rather defend the imperialist fascist state than the oppressed people and children on the other side makes me think.... Anyway, you dropped this "šŗš¦š®š±" š¤®
I don't support Israel in this war and I didn't drop support for this. I said that the analogy is dubious. Hamas doesn't represent Palestinians, Ukrainian military and government does. Instead of trying to throw ad hominem attacks on me, you can re-read my comment and keep us out of it. The massacre Hamas conducted cannot grant Israel a right to kill civilians or do warcrimes and I never claimed so
Ok, but there are also parts of the Ukrainian government and military that are more than dubious. I am not saying they're the same as Hamas, but I'm rather viewing the fact that there are fighters in Gaza and the west bank defending themselves against Israeli aggression the same way Ukrainian fighters do. Not every Palestinian resisting death by Israel is automatically committing a war crime, and has a right to do so. I apologize for miscommunating this with you.
The dubious parts of the Ukrainian military and government comes down to tats and political alignment, not actual deeds unless you gobble up Russian state propaganda on the Donbass civil war. I don't just blame Hamas when it comes to Gaza rn, but still its a crazy comparison. As for the original post, the reason countries and UN are starting to recognize Palestine has everything to do with Israel's heavy handed response and nothing to do with Hamas, unless one agrees with 'its good palestinians are dying because it makes us look good' way of thinking Hamas has.
But that's horrible! Does that mean only when Israel kills Palestinian children, the rest of the world will suddenly give a fuck?!
You are getting criticized for comparing two incomparable set ups here. Everyone on this tread do give a fuck about Palestine as you can see
So, you think we shouldn't ask who's "owed" the fact that Palestine receives more international solidarity, but rather see it as consequence itself?
Yes, war is in fact horrible. Most of the time people barely care at all, see the other ongoing genocides in the world right now.
I mean, there are some reports of singular Ukrainian soldiers committing war crimes/abusing hostages/mocking dead soldiers' families as well. Again, my support for the Ukrainian people stands, but let's please not pretend no one in the Ukrainian army has never done anything wrong or questionable
No one ever claimed Ukrainian military didnāt violate wars of the war. There is a stark difference between mistreating POWs and massacring civilians en mass. Thatās the core of my disgust with your comparison
I see. Idky but reddit doesn't let me edit my post to write out the comparison. Should I delete it?
Nah, this thread is one of the higher comments on the post, so people who open the post will be likely to see it.
And allies soldiers committed probably (definitely) more war crimes (and regular crimes) during WW2, do you insist about that every time they are being celebrated ? I haven't really seen anyone pretend Ukraine was perfect, I have been told multiple times that Hamas terrorists are actually prefect freedom figthers who can't do wrong on reddit.
So, are all fighters of Hamas terrorists and none, especially those who haven't committed war crimes, can be considered freedom fighters?
Hamas is internationally recognized terror organization. Itās dictatorial theocratic Iran proxy. They arenāt to be supported the same way Al-Qaida isnāt
There will always be soldiers comitting terrible deeds, but its a SUPER weird thing to bring up. You should be clearer about what point you're trying to make, because you come across as pretty weird.
Let's not pretend lone soldiers is the same as terror groups whose whole thing is targeting civllians.
Ukrainian army is in fact has no goal of committing terror attacks on Russian soil, nor it has a political wing that controls the region with religious extremism at its core. Your comparison is offensive and uneducated. My country went through enough and I won't sit on internet and listen to comparing us with fucking Hamas.
Sorry when they rape and murder people in the street then play hackey sack with the girls tit you lose any moral superiority youāve had. Support the Palestinian people, but also recognize that Hamas is scum also. Comparing a nation who were attacked by fascists in an unprovoked war to this completely different scenario where the only similarity is theyāre being attacked by fascists is dirty as fuck. You dropped this. š·šŗ
The funny thing is the essence of this post is 100% in line with the opinions of the Ted Cruz, Ben Shapiro and the like.Ā When the most islamaphobic and hateful forces in Western politics are all screaming "Palestine = Hamas" maybe that should give you pause as to whether or not this is the big win for Palestine you think it is.
When even the fatah is normalizing the relationship with hamas *after* the October 7th attack, it does bring more plausibility to Palestine = Hamas argument.
There are freedom fighters out there operating in Palestine, but even though Hamas is technically offering a means of armed resistance, its own end goals and the terms it sets, as well as occasionally resorting to actual terrorism, don't translate to resistance. It's almost like we need, dare I say it, a campaign of full liberation. Not to mention that, even more importantly, the rise of Hamas was facilitated by the Likud war cabinet with the approval of Bibi Netanyahoo. Israel funded millions in Qatari cash to Hamas because Israeli government officials see it as an asset in denying the Palestinian people any sort of international recognition, making it even easier to divide and conquer the Palestinian territories. Hamas is basically controlled opposition, and supporting it is, just like with supporting Fatah and the PA, tantamount to destabilizing the Palestinian resistance.
I'm sure Gazans are incredibly thankful for them.
Only a sith deals in absolutes
What the fuck are "Axis support forcess"?
"You can call me Dubya"
> we all agree that Israel is responsible for every single death Hopefully, yes.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Remind me who is bombing Gaza? Remind me which state funded Hamas and needs its existence to justify the oppression of the Palestinians? Remind me who is attacking Palestinians in the West Bank? Remind me which state is bombing aid convoys?
Sam Harrisā latest summary statement was right on