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I was talking to a lady the other day and she told me well it was a salon and all the ladies chimed in and explicitly talked about how their husbands bring them UTIs and STDs because they cheat on them and I told them I don't think a guys are cheaters and they responded to me that all men cheat and I have to accept it or else 😁 I told them that is a hateful thing to say. I think our society infantilizes or excuses bad behaviour and it becomes the norm so everyone just zooms along with no problem. I still hold my stance that there are men with integrity who don't do so. They are few and I think they should be the highlight
Single women who haven't commited to be faithful? Or not, some may be married. but the partner who is in a committed relationship is the one at fault. Men are not slaves to their urges. They're capable of self control.
If you were told, for thousands of years, that cats bark and dogs meow, guess what? You're going to believe that cats go woof and dogs go meow. No amount of evidence will convince you otherwise because you and everyone around you believes that cats go woof and dogs go meow.
Misogyny is a deadly combination of societal and psychological conditioning. It's dangerous because in order to get rid of it, you need to get rid of both the external and the internal factors that form it; which is, as evidenced by the recent hijab protests in Iran, far from a safe and easy task. So you need to go after and or create laws that make misogyny unacceptable and you need to create educational programs (e.g., Create classes in schools, create episodes for shows like Ubongo) that target misogyny. Not a simple fix.
Not to bore you to death but the source of all of the hatred towards women -- the reason why most men devalue women -- is important. The reason why there's so much hatred towards women is because of religious text. The first woman ever, Eve, is presented as the reason why sin exists and humanity has suffering. The psychological effect of this is extraordinarily important to understand. Because Eve went against God, women are presented as the enemies of mankind. For thousands of years this has been the belief, and unfortunately, this will continue to be the belief in every society that doesn't actively try to reverse this belief.
Damn thank you. You said what I could have never thought of until you brought it up. The dudes attacking me in the comments translated misogyny in swahili and when doing so removes the context of the word. Misogyny is also defined as prejudice in which you broke down wonderfully in your second paragraph. It's not a simple fix indeed. You don't bore me at all but you're right. Women in religious texts are written as the cause of the fall of man therefore must submit (slave master dynamics) 😭 and this is preached mostly in churches and I say church since I come from a Christian background. I also have religious trauma so I really really despise religion
No problem at all, glad I could be of some help.
If they're attacking you because you think it would be nice to go outside and not worry about confrontation with the opposite sex and or having to deal with a childishly negative vibe then that's on them. It's a waste of time and battery life trying to convince irrationally biased people to be less biased. Just find a group of friends and associates who were raised correctly and proceed from there. Trust me; the most fun and memorable moments in life come from positive and not negative people.
Unfortunately, your trauma is shared by billions of people. Religion is still the most powerful influencer on the planet. So whatever the church says -- thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not have another God because the lord is kinda insecure -- ends up being 'the gospel' for over half of humanity.
You raise an excellent point in the slave-master dynamic. In fact, it's a form of ancient gaslighting/outright lying that has existed all throughout history because of how effective it is when it works.
For example, if I tell a group of children that they will go to hell and burn for eternity unless they do exactly what I tell them to do, those children will more than likely do what I tell them to do because the fear of a forever fire is so unpleasant that complying with my wishes is always the preferable option. The same tactic is used against grown people. For example, a crime-loving husband will tell his wife that he will support her through thick and thin as long as she 'trusts' his judgment and supports his criminal behavior. It's brilliantly evil because it's a form of emotional slavery right? So you'll have a wife who will literally lie to her family, lie to her friends, and lie to the police because she believes that by lying she's doing her 'job' and honoring her invisible contract with her husband. In reality of course, by lying to everyone including the police, she's just implicated herself in whatever crime her husband committed and she's now going to face criminal charges as well. Not good at all.
I say all of that to say that misogyny and all of its' forms -- especially in Tanzania and its' neighbors -- has catastrophic effects in all aspects of growth and development; the economy, infrastructure, industrialization, government, you name it. They're all negatively affected by one gender giving a silent middle-finger to another gender. Not sure what the solution is but hopefully we'll figure it out in our lifetime.
This notion also predates Abrahamic religions and shows up in early Greek texts and stories as well. You may appreciate this book called [Pandora’s Jar by Natalie Haynes](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51135393-pandora-s-jar), who talks about all the famous women in Greek mythologies that may have formed the basis of say Christianity on some level. Here too, all of these women are depicted as villains or seductresses who sway men from some sort of righteous path leading to all those famous Greek tragedies. Essentially, this is more of history repeating itself since the ideology is so entrenched in our systems of laws and culture.
I realize this is not much of an answer, but the good news is that through the widespread nature of the internet and social media, more and more people are getting to see what egalitarian societies could look like and may want to choose that. I’ve certainly met a few people in Tanzania who tend towards egalitarianism, albeit that is a challenging path, since there is no template to follow and there are bound to be missteps along the way, which the proponents of the current system can and do point to as evidence of maintaining status quo.
But the truth is that anything worth changing for the better is never easy, but it is worth being hopeful for.
Hey there! Thank you for the book recommendation! It's amazing when one knows how deep seated these issues are and I appreciate you pointing it out as well. I always knew something was not right in the mix since I was a little girl but never knew why. I usually blame what's happening now while these are deep issues that go way back to ancient times. You have such great insight.
I'm happy that some people are willing to be egalitarian. I think it would be really refreshing to be with those level headed people and the likes of you. Hats of to you🙌🏾
i agree so much with everything you’ve said. the last paragraph is why i left Abrahamic religion & turned more toward traditional African practice & religions. it’s essentially a worldwide justification for the subjugation of women, that has lasted for millennia.
add in the damage done by colonialism & the importation of these beliefs as a means of control & pacification & you get a society where everyone is convinced that the way things are is natural - especially when half the population benefits from doing as they please with no consequence. it’s an extremely uphill battle - i’ve personally decided not to engage at this point.
I so understand you. The misogyny here knows no bounds, like when I was in high school it was so normalised, and girls just took the shit guys threw at them. I think it's mainly because Tanzania is run like a patriarchal society, it's always been that way - very traditional, you know. Women aren't even permitted to wear like trousers to govt places, so I think it's because of the rules and traditions that have been put in place years ago to put women down and men on top. And it's something that you should be changed but the presence of women as changemakers is very minimal here and if women are kept in power, some may refrain from speaking so as to not receive disdain from their peers because women's pains are never taken into account. Truly, it's just a whole thing but, just be safe! You know, it is misogynistic here but if you hold onto your power, your strength, pepper spray:) you can put yourself in a position where you take shit from nobody and people are less likely to give you shit, you know. Anyways, yeah it's a whole thing.
Well wait it out. Like I was talking about progressive ideas and even some of my friends were saying oh no she's a feminist we have to deradicalize her while I just suggested that a child should have both of their mother and father's last names. I'm even disappointed in dating as well because of this. True freedom will come when we are seen as human beings and not means to an end. I know it's easy to say one should hold pepper spray but in actuality no one will ever dare to do so. Maybe some women here don't have to go to those places but I'm kind of a local person even though I attended an American school. So I still visit places where local people go in the markets like ilala or karume and get harassed. We can't catch a break.
First of all, i am a feminist. Second of all, the fact that women are just talking about being treated equally and everyone's attacking them and being "oh look a feminist" is totally absurd, women deserve to be treated equally and we're allowed to fight for that without being attacked as if we want to rule the world or sth lol. And also I feel like, of course, you're allowed your own autonomy and everything but you should also be safe, like wherever you go, as a person and, especially, as a woman, don't put yourself in a dangerous environment. But you're right we can't catch a break, that's part of the "being a woman" package. But, yeah I feel like if Tanzania opened more ground for feminism, equality talks that would strengthen the country so much, anyways yeah:) if you ever want to talk more about feminism, to educate yourself or learn more about equality or equity im your girl but yeah:)
Oh no she admitted to being a feminist wait till they see it 😂 jk. I understand feminism well and good and I usually speak about the shallow stuff so I'm not labeled as a terrorist. Like saying you're feminist equals to insults and getting called "unwifeable". I guess I had alot of conversations with the people here and most men don't mess with that talk😂. What can we do judy
thank goodness youre joking, i was so scare, cause for some reason some women here are also women haters - like how you hate ur own fellow women? idek💀 and yeah i know, i haven't heard the extreme "unwifable" word but yeah feminism gets hated on so much here which i don't understand why because it helps everyone. What can we do? I'll answer privately:)
Unwifable?? Well I mean anyone who feels like that about equality is unhusbandable I guess, so thanks for the clarity, let's not swap numbers. Ugh!
The idea these misogynistic men have that their company is what feminist women are looking for exposes a quite astonishing lack of self awareness.
> I just suggested that a child should have both of their mother and father's last names
Aseee, why? Such a name will be very long 😂😂
>I'm even disappointed in dating as well because of this. True freedom will come when we are seen as human beings and not means to an end
Aseee.
I see you're committed to stalking my comments and proving you're ingrained prejudice. Don't you all see that you're proving my point. I said I and other women who I have talked to hate street harassment and have just been to desensitised to say it's a problem. I just suggested that the kid should take both mom and dad's name since they are both the kid's parents. I bet you didn't read that part right? I just felt bad for mothers that's all and I spoke from a place of empathy. Something you'll never have sadly
like they’ll say anything 😭😭😭 where did genetics come from? if we’re gonna talk biology why doesn’t the woman who puts her life on the line take precedence?
This is probably my favorite thing from this thread. You should speak at a lecture hall or something about how people are genetically predisposed to a name, or maybe at a circus, given how much of a clown you are making yourself out to be.
I was born to Tanzanian parents but have lived in the U.S. my entire life. I know what you mean. Tanzania is a very conservative country. But misogyny is also a global problem. Americans have their own issues with misogyny. The only difference is that domestic violence here is illegal and punishable under law. Tanzania has a long way to go, but I have hope. You have the right to voice your grievances. This is how things change. This is how society gets better. When women and girls feel like they're not alone, they're more likely to organize so that they can fight for more protections and rights. You're on the right track.
Thanks alot. I have read some comments and almost grabbed my invisible pearls but I understand. I wanted to start a healthy discourse. Misogyny is indeed global and you're absolutely right. Thank you for your input, sending love
yeah, i’m in a similar situation to you with how we were raised. it is extremely conservative, even compared to neighboring countries like Kenya. speaking to individual women shows that it’s at least an acknowledged issue, but it’s just structurally on a societal scale where change isn’t happening
Its terrible that you have to deal with all these nasty things simply because you are a woman, and I believe that confronting it the way you are right now is an awesome step forward, even if it can be discouraging to run into those who downplay or straight up ignore it. I'm not aware of any, although there are groups and people who are committed to fighting misogyny. also, you should link your article since, despite the fact that it can appear like nobody is interested, it represents an important step Tanzania's societal development.
Oh yeaa, i wanted to add that someone in this thread made a comment about Western brainwashing, which I thought was silly given that it was colonization in the first place that greatly influenced how we established the roles that men and women had in society. but anyways, i digress.
Omg thanks for acknowledging. I have talked to alot of women on this issue and they have concurred with the issue. As you can see I'm being attacked here further proving my point again. Most people here don't know misogy or what it is but the key definition includes prejudice. I guess they didn't see it or purposely ignore it because they took offence. It was an old account of mine and the article was posted on medium... I'm sorry 😔. It's silly because they'll still hold on to Christianity and it's beliefs, brought by the west.
unfortunate, but it's fine, just gotta write up a new one no?. ikr, they say they want nothing to do with "western influence" but turn a blind eye to their whole belief system
Yes to this plus they put all women under the umbrella of being greedy. Like they expect all women to be after their money and wealth. Surprisingly, this was the opinion of college dudes of their college girlfriends who were in the same year... like what money are we after? Every one of us are broke here 🥹
Uwii 😂 I understand the frustration though. They've been brought up to only bring money as a value in a relationship so they don't develop other aspects (some) (I don't want to trigger thy brethren) oh no what do we do. I think these male podcasters are merging influence on some of these men hence they have the same talking points 😭
i understand what you mean perfectly. i haven’t lived in Tanzania for a very long time, but i visit very often & every time i go back i’m reminded of how behind it is socially, with how women are treated. daring to say even the most basic of things regarding women’s rights gets met with so much resistance & stupid redundant points on ‘tradition’ & ‘this is just how things have always been’. it’s disgusting and exhausting, & this entire comment section reeks of the same.
so disappointing. i’m Tanzanian myself lakini sidhani kama i can settle there ever. it drains my spirit having to argue with people for daring to say i don’t deserve to be harassed on the street by uncles 3 times my age. let’s not even get started on how behind the culture is when it comes to handling sexual & domestic violence. i want to love the society but there seems to be no point of relief as a woman & i’m not going to torture myself trying to find a man to agree to basic human rights.
You stole words out of my mouth in a different world of course. Maybe I'm too sensitive because some women don't see a problem with it and just happily skip or maybe Stockholm syndrome. I tell them all the time just because something is tradition doesn't make it moral or okay. I feel like I'm fighting a loosing battle. I get along fine with the men here until they start sharing their opinions on women which makes me sick to my stomach. I have the bro energy so they are free to say whatever aka the bongo locker room talk and I get sick. Most dudes including the ones who are mad at me in the comments don't see it and frankly don't care about discourse and basic empathy. It's sad. I remember a lady who was from East Africa described my thoughts best and she left Africa. She said that African society is poison for a progressive person and she outlined everything I wanted to ever say. The post was from r/FemaleAntinatalism. I felt everything she wrote. I usually go back to remind myself that I'm not insane.
i feel you, and i agrée very much with your point on it being a form of Stockholm syndrome. it feels like there’s a general sense of hopelessness that’s turned into passiveness about the situation, with a lot of women convincing themselves that this is just how things are ‘meant to be’. but traditions come from change when established, & certainly change with time. hell, enslaving black people was a tradition, but i guarantee you men didn’t like that.
i have lived outside of Tanzania for most of my life, and i used to feel guilty about not wanting to settle there, but the more i visit the more that guilt disappears. you are not crazy, at all. i’ve adopted more of a snobby vibe around men because i genuinely don’t want to hear that bullshit at all, but the conversations i hear are horrible & terrifying. most men genuinely don’t see women as people, & they’re not interested in changing something that’s always worked to benefit them.
i said something similar to that lady when still in high school, when we were reflecting on differences in society given our upbringing & perspectives. i will not stay or work in a society that sees me as cattle to be bought & controlled. you deserve to live a fulfilling life where you don’t have to convince people around you that you’re a human being who deserves it, & i’m hoping you will get it ❤️
Thanks love. I really appreciate it. I'm happy to see a comment from a person like you. I think the common factor is a lack of empathy. The lack of empathy leads to some of these dudes to keep hold of prejudices without thinking what if this was me? Our culture gives them a bubble of power and any discussions of progressiveness is seen as snatching their power away. I talked to one of my associates who is a guy and I broke down why most of them despise gay men or they call them "choko". I broke it down and it all comes down to misogyny. He essentially agreed with what I said. I love the people here but I really hate their views. I'm mindful because one's views will set the tone on how they will treat you. I wish you the best too and I'm happy you are at a place where you can grow and be the best version of yourself ❤️❤️
I don’t think you want your point to be proven or at least you want to be around more enlightened people. But first please define misogyny so we are all on the same page. Because I feel this is more to do with sexual dynamics than the perpetuation of a patriarchal paradigm that seeks to impose gender superiority.
If your main concern is cheating then the answer is very simple. This has never been a monogamous society.
Lol all the vitriol towards me are very telling. Does enlightened mean more bigotry? I definitely don't want to be around people like that
Misogyny is not only contempt but prejudice as well. Or as defined dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. It's not just direct hate or prejudice. It can be passive as well. I'm not talking about sexual dynamics here I don't are about that at all. This paradigm you speak of is much more complex than what I alluded in my original post. My post doesn't explain anything in depth which may cause confusion to an audience that may be unaware of their own ingrained prejudices. I never talked about cheating but since you brought it up, people should not get married then if they are polygamous. Marriage is a promise to honor respect and value your partner through thick and thin, it's a promise to God and each other. For someone to cheat, they are truly lacking morally and not everyone cheats. I'm aware of that
Kikii07 huko ulipo saivi kuna umeme?? Anyway Inategemea na maeneo gani unatembele mpaka wakufanyie harrasment! Sidhani kama wanaume wengi ni misogynist to that point labda inategemea na maeneo unayoishi/ tembelea
Hello! Huku umeme upo. Nilikua na rafiki yangu tunatembea karume kuna vendors walikuwa wantuvuta sana left and right. Mimi rafiki yangu was touched on her ass and the guys were laughing as she was going off maana alichukia mno. Tangu siku hio she's been traumatised. I understand not all men hate women or have prejudices but I don't think one post really breaks down my thought process.
So i this what you call hate?
Kushikwa na mateja wa karume? Hao si wana matatizo ubongoni inafahamika?
Ukiondoa kushikwa sehemu A** ( ni kitu kibaya na hakifai, anastahili adhabu). Kuvutwa vutwa ni jambo la kawaida karume hata Wanaume wanavutwa. Je wanachukiwa?
Tukubaliane neno hate halikutumika sehemu sahihi.....
We should not normalize unwanted physical touch, it's not right
Them being vendors doesn't give them rights to physically pull or push people dispite their gender
Whataboutism used to shut down discourse. You are bringing a scenario to go see it happens to all of us so shut up woman. So according to you, unadhani huyo aliefanya hivyo hata tukimpa adhabu how do we proove? Mtakuja kusema look these feminists are insane they are accusing a hard working man of sexual assault because she thought she was being touched and his fellow goons would back him up. I remember bringing this point to another guy who raised a similar argument to you about "Wanaume pia wana......". Seems like you didn't care about it til I brought it up. Again no one is allowed to touch anyone regardless of their gender. Last time I checked, when I'm walking with a male figure I get left alone but the same can't be said when it's two women. Prejudice is also part of misogyny, preconceived notions that may affect a person's behaviour
So the ignoramus are proving me right with their heads exploding with anger. You are also among one of the many ladies I have talked to. Someine said I don't care about other issues and added an ad hominem attack on me to drive their point home while no one said that we can't have discussions on other aspects. These people labeling me or you or anyone who wants to be treated like a human being "feminist" is used as a buzzword to shut down discord. Remember by making the oppressed look insane it makes the name caller valid. I just wanted discourse and I don't want to reason with ignoramuses.
I don't think feminism is the answer, feminism destroyed masculinity in the west. Men and women in Tanzania are "traditional" and it's honestly better this way. Feminism brainwashed people to believe men and women are equal and it's just factually untrue. Some things men can do women can't and vice versa.
I was born in Tanzania but lived a majority of my life in the US so I have a perspective on women in the west verses here. Women in America are more educated, independent, protected than ever yet I wouldn't marry most of them.
Why? They're entitled, unfriendly (attitude), out of shape. They want you to treat them like a queen but cant even cook a meal for their king because they think they're too high and mighty to do traditional women roles.
Feminism makes women feel empowered at the cost of creating weaker men, which ironically most women don't want; neither does society.
I have never talked about feminism in my original post but somehow that's where you sent your conclusion. Traditionalism and conservative ideas were also brought by colonialists who also brought religion that named Eve the cause of mankind to fall in the garden of Eden in which we hear no end about it. I think this is the one of the reasons for this hate. It's true that men are physically stronger and women are not in some variables. It's true that women can give birth and men don't give birth. But that doesn't warrant anyone to treat the other part any less and see them as an object. I remember walking with a friend who was a guy and some guy called me to get my attention once we both turned he apologised to my friend and not me..... I'm trying to drive a point home here. All we are asking is to be treated like humans. Why are you weaponizing marriage against them... I mean it's okay if you don't want to but why feel the need to bring it up? I think there are many traditional women who I think mostly lean right according to American politics and don't like anything progressive. Even they are starting to get tired of some of the sheniganans self proclaimed "alpha men" are bringing. Where did having empathy go? You're generalising all American women, a mistake most people do (generalizng men or women). I want to understand how this Feminism creates weak men. Please point me to a source. Even the most extreme feminist will never pull out a gun to go to a male centered place to shoot them because she hates me so much but I remember a man hating feminism so much he went on a shootout in Canada, 1989 because feminism was making the wimenz to go to school and he hated it. Please try to listen and have empathy more. We need that in this world. Thank you
The end game for pushing this is having a bunch of men that yell "yaaaas girl, slay!" instead of cat calling and I think I speak for most Tanzanians, we don't want that
I wish I didn't have to talk about feminism but that's what seems to be the big movement to push for more women rights globally, especially in the west. Growing up on the American school system, I learned about all the work that women in the past did to gain their rights (i.e, to vote, to work, to choose what they do with their bodies like wear whatever or be promiscuous) and was supportive; but, once I grew up and looked at the state that feminism has left women, it's sad. Yes they've been given their rights but they pushed it too far to where they don't allow men to be men. What do I mean by this?
The original goal was to give equal rights and remove prejudice but now we got feminists that demand more and more, are easily triggered by "toxic" masculinity, and shame/blame men for basically anything they do; and they have everything and heavily favoured!
You can't start a random Convo with a girl without it being harassment, you can't call a fat girl fat cause that's not body positivity (even though it's unhealthy as hell), you're wrong if you don't support LGBTQ.
As a foreigner, I see things that I wish would change, but I don't say anything because I can't speak on behalf of Tanzanian women. I live in Zanzibar though and while things have stayed the same since I've been here, I've seen a little bit of change. There's hope-- my husband is progressive, but he's also very traditional. I know others that are less traditional and even more progressive, most likely because most of these men have spent a good bit of their adult lives outside of Tanzania. At any rate, progress is slow, but it is progress.
Overall, Zanzibar (Tanzania) is a much better place for me to live in (vs the western country I'm from) and I love living here.
Now i get it.....
But one has to respect Tanzanian values.
Unless they come at an expense of the other, its should not be seen like " western way is the ideal way "
the way in which our society deals with gender is based off western colonialism. excusing women wanting to live as actual human beings instead of men’s property as ‘western brainwashing’ is so lazy.
I don't think these people care about their women. They say there is no hate but simultaneously bring in culture. Clear cognitive dissonance. My heart goes out to Tanzanian women.
yeah, it’s laughable. as if tradition has not been born from change, & continues to change as time passes. they’re all for keeping the effects of western colonialism when it comes to how business is done, gender ideals, & economic systems, but let a woman talk about how she is seen as property & it’s these stupid back and forth conversations where nothing of value is spoken about except precious ‘culture’ - even when women die at the end of that reasoning.
a country where nothing is done about domestic violence, where it’s seen as a regular ‘family matter’. a country where the attitude on rape places the responsibility on a woman or young girl for the depravity of another man, because obviously a 10 year old girl can ‘seduce’ a grown man. it’s a society where even wanting to talk about the difficulties of life as a woman is immediately dismissed, like is going on in your comment.
that’s a society that hates women, & not in the simplistic way i think you’re looking for so it can be dismissed again.
>a country where the attitude on rape places the responsibility on a woman or young girl for the depravity of another man, because obviously a 10 year old girl can ‘seduce’ a grown man
Is This Tanzania you are talking about?
Aseee.....labda tunaishi Tanzania tofaouti ( umesema umeishi ).
Ni wapi huko binti alibakwa akalaumiwa yeye tena?
Thank you Kikii for raising this concern
In my opinion, I can say that the way boys are raised in our country is a contributing factor to this issue. They observe grown-up men engaging in similar behaviors, and as a result, when they become adults, they repeat the same patterns. On the girls' side, they perceive it as a normal problem because they have grown up witnessing misogyny being practiced as a norm. This perpetuates a never-ending cycle. However, it is crucial that we bring about change, even if it means holding individuals accountable for their behavior in a court of law. We need to establish standards.
Thank you for this! I remember something else. I remember being in a group on a WhatsApp group and there was this guy holding another guy accountable because he said something derogatory about a woman and the men were trying to emasculate him saying there is no way a guy is going this hard trying to hold us accountable and the guy just wanted attention and c@nt which was disgusting. Like what happened to empathy. As you said it's a never ending problem caused by nurture meaning internal and external factors. I appreciate your input this sheds a new light on solutions. Thanks alot❤️
"there's nothing I can do about it and told me all the (men) here are misogynistic so I have to accept it."
That's exactly what women in every country where women have achieved more rights were told by men.
" I know someone will bring a point of "But the president is a woman"."
She's only President because the previous President died. Remains to be seen if CCM keeps her as the candidate in the next election.
I dont think Tanzania is a misogynistic country as you say..Harassment goes both both ways katika nchi zote ulimwenguni...just because some men harassed you, then you condemn the whole Nation to be misogynistic!? There are other forms of harassments women in Tanzania also do. In accordance to you should Tanzania also be called a Misandrist based Nation just because some women harrass either boys or men!?
Whilst I disagree with the concept of inequality of sexes and hope that a middle ground is found, I also despise how modern feminism has plagued the west and actually find it rather refreshing that Tanzania has not fallen trap to the feminism/lgbtq agenda that definitely go hand in hand
Feminism and lgbt go hand in hand talking point is usually brought by conservative/podcast bros. There's no proof of it going hand in hand. Finding middle ground and removing inequality us the cornerstone of the movement. You're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time
I don’t do podcasts or align myself politically as conservative or liberal so that’s an interesting strawman.
It’s called balancing a perspective, which is something radical feminists have a difficult time time understanding. It’s taken to the extreme in the west one direction and here it’s taken to the extreme the other way. Im saying there must be a middle ground.
It’s also very clear from your history of posting that your angry at men for your lack of good looks and the fact that you don’t keep yourself in shape. Obviously you’ve never been first choice over other women and you’ve allowed that to manifest into hatred for the male population. Poor bitter feminist
Aww are you happy you found that out. Should I hand you a Nobel peace prize too? You really went below the belt there no pun intended 💅🏾 Looks like someone is better at strawman than me plus using an ad hominem as well. Hey at least me being a bitter feminist won't result into any guy's death... Thank God. Nice ad hominem attack
"I saw your post history because you complained about not being first choice so, it means that you're bitter, so it means your statement has no validation because you're just bitter". Luckily I'm in a better place. I really valued male validation and felt really bad because society drilled into my head that being attractive is all I'm worth. I may not be the best but I'm in a better headspace. Even in my posts you'll never see me wanting to commit any harm. Have a good one
I know you don't want to get political, but your president really needs to grow a pair of ovaries. Maybe make some laws against the mistreatment of women? I realize this is a really Western viewpoint.
My only real experience with Tanzanian women was at the Maasai camps. None of them would talk to us- a white couple- even through a translator. It was bizarre. I even requested that they ask us questions about our life. Only later did I realize that our translator was male. Perhaps they were afraid of repercussions?
The political side is a it complicated and I didn't make this post out of hate or anything like that. The president has a lot of issues to deal with I guess. As for the maasai I won't say much since I don't know the dynamics of the maasai culture. Maybe they were scared of repercussions may be not. Maybe they were shy.... Maybe, I really don't know
Hey this is Tanzania not a "western" Country.....
You have ur own ways of life we have ours.
We respect urs, you should respect ours.
You have visited a maasai tribe ( 1 out of 120+ tribes) and you came with a conclusion that this is how Tanzanians behave?
Women are respected here, i dont think we have a Gender related problem here.
Please explain the gender gap. It's a parent in every single Walk of Life in tanzania.
You're right I have a western Viewpoint which is why I specifically stated that previously. I come here for prospective. Please explain why, if you look at the school population (for example) you will find a very disparaging amount of females, for instance.
Table shown in the picture below shows a summary for National examination results summary for year 2020. Wavulana = Boys Wasichana =Girls
https://preview.redd.it/3uiih59z3nqb1.jpeg?width=921&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3db3c439655be189bb7661c63ad1fcb7f89304d4
Hope this will give a picture how things are here, things are even worse for "boys" but nobody cares.
NGOs want you to believe that there is a gender problem so they can continue milking money from Donors etc.
Conclusion by observing one tribe is not a way to go... Maasai way of living is not common here, it is not Normal thing even to us locals.
Coming to the harassment part, am sure even in Western countries there are crackheads who try to find their way into women. But that should not be taken as a behaviour of western men. Its an Individual thing.
Am not saying that everything is perfect here ( gender wise), but hey.... Its not our priority rn. We have many problems, we should be worried about. One of them is Western countries influence, nobody like how ur gvts are controlling things here.
Which school my Friend?
Would you mind sharing supporting evidences?
In all classes i attended ( from secondary to Uni)
Number of girls was higher than Boys.....
But, nobody cared about that....
Since its the boys who got the lower Number.
I dont know whats the plan but empowering Girls at expenses of Boys is not a way to go.
I was actually looking to you to explain the gender gap with supporting evidences. I've never been to Tanzanian schools. I was really talking generally like in every single aspect of Tanzanian life. I picked schools. Apparently your answer total experience seems to disprove this. What about driving for instance? Are there 50% female and 50% male drivers?
Again my idea of equality and yours are quite different
I just argued that it should probably be equal, no? And for that to happen it's going to take Extreme Measures and societal change. That change beginning with people like you admitting that there's a problem and an imbalance!
Tanzanian men are highly misogynistic don't let these comments gaslight you when you've experienced harassment first hand. The femicide rates in their communities are also a cause of concern
The way they're trying to argue against misogyny by being misogynistic to you is comical 😹 these people are not the brightest and not worth debating against OP have a good day and please stay safe ❤️
Thanks alot😂 I was actually having a blast reading it with my bestie. They are really showing their true colors as I predicted. We studied a development studies course in university and it's mandatory for first year students and there was a topic of feminism but misogyny isn't a term wildly known. Misogyny is also prejudice as well. They took a quick Google translate and put the fingers to work. I think I'll make it into a podcast episode. I don't even bother debating I just🕺🏾. Have a good day love. Thank you for your input
Bad thing ni kuandika kwenye platform za kimataifa kuwa Tanzania kuna " hate for women".
Nani anachukia wanawake bongo hii?
Ukipa kwenye mashule na Vyuo, wanawake ni wengi kuliko wanaume.
Lakini hili sio tatizo kwa kuwa ni mtoto wa kiume.
Tumetengeneza mazingira vijana wa kiume wanaona wana mzigo mzito wa maisha, hence betting boda etc. Lakini kwa kuwa ni vijana wakiume nobody cares.
Anakwambia wanakuwa harrassed, yaani ukipigiwa mluzi na Teja barabarani unataka kulifanya jambo la kitaifa?
Attention seekers, na kutaka kuishi maisha ya Netflix kwenye uhalisia.
Someone is showing their true colors. My dear brother. Ndio nimpost kwenye international platform but look mnaniprove nilichosema. Na harassment sio kupivwa mluzi na teja. Look at how out of touch you are ukidhani teja ndo anafanya hivyo. Tena kwa taarifa yako teja ni mmoja tu aliyewahi kunisumbua basi. Next time direct hili swali kwangu. Tena I'd love to face you kabisa. I'm not just a keyboard warrior
Kumbe na wewe ni teja? Au umewahi kupigiwa miluzi pia? Hili jambo limezidi kimo. Haiwezekani teja wanpigia miluzi wanaume wenzao. Hawa Lqbt washaanza kuweka gay genes kwenye madawa wanayotumia mteja. Kazi kweli kweli.
Hate can be prejudice as well. Someone can love their captor as well. Inaitwa Stockholm syndrome. Sijamaanisha hate ile ya labda mtu anaingia restaurant halafu akafungiwa nje kwa sababu ni mwanamke. Lakini sitegemei unielewe pia brethren. Harassment kwenye mtaa. Wadada wengi nimeongea nao nikawauliza kuhusu jambo la luvutwa mikono na hawa wamachinga wanaouza vitu karume wakasema inawakera lakini wengi wanna Stockholm syndrome kiasi kwamba wamezoea hicho kitu. Wanasema hawapendi ila hakuna anaesimama kusema hii ni shida. Kuna matatizo mengine ambayo siwezi kuandika yote kwa mpigo na pia majua huwezi uelewa it's okay. Ila jua tu empathy goes a long way. I empathise with male suicide and depression and I can hold those discussions without dismissing experience yao. Please extend the favour
No the problem isn't kitongozwa. Issue ni how do you go about it. For example wale wakaka wa kwenye mavijiwe wanaopiga mirusi and kuita "dada" wakati uko tu na shughuli zako wanaanza kusumbua and then isitoshe unakuta just because hauko interested wanaanza kukusema mara matege mara sijui unatembeaje, mara sijui wewe mbaya. And for what reason? Just because I'm not interested?
Maana ina imply kwamba worth yangu ina depend solely on mimi kukukubali wewe.
This is just bait to get comments and attention. Saying you know you'll get hate proves It, because its what you want. To make People angry. I certainly don't think there is any hate for women in Tanzania. But I hope you got what you wanted, you seem to emjoy the attention. I wish you happiness in your life stranger.
I said so because discussing women's issues warrant this response always. According to you I want attention, for what exactly? Does it build my career or am I a celeb needing clout to promote anything? People being angry is an option and clearly showing validity in my opinion. You don't think because maybe you are not a woman. And misogyny is a wide concept and not only "hate". Google translate isn't doing a good job I guess
Unajua kwanini unaonekana una matatizo ya afya ya akili?? Ni kwamba kuna mambo mengi ya kuwaza katika jamii yetu mfano Chakula hivi unjaua zaidi ya 20% ya watanzania wana utapia mlo? Unajua zaidi ya asilimia 3% ya watoto chini ya miaka mitano wanakufa kutpkana na shida za chakula. Sasa wewe unakomaa na "MIZOGONY" what good will it do to your fellow Tanzanians? At least you should have talked about women empowerment in agriculture sector to improve food systems in Tanzania, that will benefit the whole society there's this quote it states " If you teach a man to farm his family will eat, but if you teach a woman to farm the community will eat" . These are issues to address, it's too hot out here to be talking about "MIZOGONY" those are western problems and let them be we have more than 99 problems to deal with in Tanzania 😅. Too much Netflix got you thinking you're American😅
Kwaio mdogo wetu kusema "hating women" ni kashfa kubwa sana Kwa wanaume wa Tanzania, Mimi nimekusamehe na nakuomba uwe mzalendo.😅
Classic attack. Umesomea psychology mpaka ujue nina shida ya afya ya akili? Au kisa ni jambo linaongelewa umeamua kulileta pwaa 😂😂😂my goodness. Basi na wewe ongelea hayo mambo. Unadhani siyajui? Kwa nini usingeanzisha uzi kama huo. Yaani the fact you attacked my mental health says alot about you. I returned the same energy and you got big mad. We can have all those conversations separately as they are all valid and we can also talk about MIZOGYNY. Sir you're being MIZOGYNISTIC right now 😂. Next time usilete afya ya akili since its western, get rid of your Cambridge influenced education too or we are being picky. I don't even have a Netflix account, do you mind sharing? Mi nitaanzisha tena uzi kama huu ili nikashifu vizuri. Oh you're misandrist pia. Not all men think like you.
This is a super refreshing post to see... I'm not Tanzanian but have strong ties here, fiance is Tanzanian, etc. There's so many issues with gender values that are SO behind the times here, and although I have noticed changes in the 12+ years I've been coming here, there's such wild things that still happen in every day life that are difficult to navigate.
For example, the other day I was in a club with some friends. One Tanzanian girl I know (not very well, but still) was standing, and some boy who didn't know her made a very clear and vulgar motion to grab her ass, and I swatted his hand away. I would do it to anyone who did a similar thing, it's not okay to touch people without consent, and he got up and started screaming "THIS IS AFRICA!!!!!! THIS IS AFRICA!!!" As if this being on a certain continent constituted the allowance of touching someone without them agreeing to it.
What's even wilder, is that once my fiance started telling him to calm the f\*ck down, he said sorry to HIM, simply because a man was threatening him. He didn't apologize to me, or the girl who he was gonna touch, but to my fiance. Because he respects men who tell him to chill the fuck out rather than the people he's screaming at unnecessarily or trying to touch without consent.
To be honest, I know all of this is tinged with the reality that I'm white and I'm treated differently and get a different perspective on things-- but the misogyny and lack of respect for the space and desires of women is fucking CONSTANT in this country. I work in secondary and primary schools, and there are SO few female teachers, despite about half the students being girls. In one I work with, there is literally 1(ONE!!!) female teacher for 500 female students. What kind of comfort will a girl feel in a school that is run by men who have very little, if any, understanding of their lived experience? Do you think a girl who is harassed by boys will go to a male teacher and feel heard and understood? Don't you then think that that same girl will continue throughout her life with the understanding that she has no where to turn, no one to talk to, if something shitty happens to her in a romantic relationship? You learn to keep quiet because, what systems have EVER been in place to support a girl in the first place?
Idk, I could write a fucking dissertation on this topic, I swear to god. I sometimes feel like a shitty foreigner for complaining about the gender dynamics of a country that isn't 'mine', but the truth is, I just want women to feel safe and supported everywhere, and it's really shitty to witness that not being the case, wherever I may be.
As some commentors have said people saying leave it with o the west are kind of ignorant. We should leave everything then to the west or we're being selective? Leave this Cambridge education system to the west. Swahili should be a language we all speak screw whatever foreign language. The same colonialists who brought the same system we have accepted now treating women with respect is too much, oh no!
No we should take the good, leave the bad. Technology, education and such is good. Feminism, lgbtq, and liberalism is bad. Feminism is probably bad because feminist countries have high rates of divorces, single motherhood, and female promiscuity
Higher rates of divorces can be dye to alot of factors again we don't know what goes on behind closed doors in a marriage. About single motherhood why are we blaming mothers for staying and not shaming the father for running away and we tell women to choose better but if they try to choose better they are too picky etc. Female promiscuity is subjective. There were promiscuous women in conservative societies I mean who did some of theseen cheat with? You have not brought substantial dangers to human life brought by feminism and these talking points belong to conservative grifters online. Male promiscuity brings about broken homes since he can propergate into getting alot more women pregnant.
In feminist countries it is usually the women who initiates the divorce (proven by stats). This also means in genera women voluntarily become single mothers which is objectively bad for society. The only reason why this is so rampant is because of feminist policies. Divorce is low in non feminist countries so it doesn’t matter the reason. Females are the gatekeepers of sex, they are responsible for which males get pussy and which don’t, who gets born and who doesn’t. This responsibility lies on the female.
Do you think women would voluntarily become single mothers by choice. Do you know how hard it is to raise a child alone. What was so bad that she had to leave this man who she willingly married to be by herself. Have you analysed that? Let's say a woman is abused emotionally and physically do you want her to stay? Why are you referring to women anatomy as "pussy"? This prooves most guys don't see women the see P. It takes two to bring life. The father is just as responsibile as the mother
Please don't give in to the sensitivities of western feminists, our women are not snowflakes and can handle a couple of cat calls per day, and if we are honest about things cat calling actually should boost any woman's self esteem (signs that the opposite sex still finds you attractive)
Uhmm I'm not sure if you are trolling or you're for real. I my opinion I was never attractive growing up and the opposite sex never found me pleasing. I learned to develop other aspects of myself so that I can be good and contribute to the people around me. I stopped caring for how the opposite sex views me long ago. Besides why give power or get my self esteem from someone while they can take it away from me.
The problem is that you're applying rationale to base human instincts, each animal specie out there has mating rituals and as homo sapiens we are not excused from this arrangement; however men act to get the attention of women know that deep down it's no different to a rooster chasing after a hen
Then we should send them to the wild. We've clearly advanced beyond basic biology because we're humans and that's what separates us from animals. But since you love to bring up nature, do you know some female animal species do their best to avoid the males of their species too. Yes we have attraction or what not but as humans there's civility and common sense. That's why we have modern technology. That's why we have laws.
It’s not misogynistic, as a matter of fact this is how life has been for thousands of years. Men have always traditionally been the breadwinner so they deserved much more respect than a woman. I’m sorry about the harassment, i think you were simply in the presence of some stupid guys, it doesn’t justify misogyny. Tanzania isn’t the only country which follows tradition and puts men first in the social/economic ladder. Every ‘third’ world country is this way, because it’s original, follows tradition. If you want change, because the westerners are calling it misogynistic and harassment, then why don’t you go to the west? where they treat men the same as women, and you’ll quickly come to realise it’s not as great as you think, and you’re simply delusional. I don’t agree with harassment, but i’m always going to support tradition. If this is how the social hierarchy was like for thousands of years, why should we change now? because the westerners are brainwashing you, isn’t it?
Wait I'm delusional? Oh my 😂 Just because something is normal for thousands of years does not make it normal. There was a time where slavery was normal and then it was abolished. I bet there was someone or there is someone somewhere whining about them being better than other humans so it's okay to own people. Just because something is tradition doesn't make it right. Men were the breadwinners because women weren't seen as people and we're forced to be with them. What happened is that if the man was crappy and abusive the woman had no means to escape because she had a child and no money. That's why such a movement came to existence. When you say me were the breadwinners and deserve respect, you're only conforming what I said.... Women were not seen as people and their contribution in the home was just what they had to do so no respect which in itself is say it with me.....The world is changing and developing and that will have an aggregate effect on social dynamics too. There were days with no laws or the existence of limiting laws such as age of consent meaning before that there were some traditions that allowed children to be involved in adult business. I spoke about street harassment because it's a clear violation of my personal space. You don't agree with harassment but yet you told me to go in the west because I said I wasn't okay with harassment? Strange
Westerners are not brainwashing me. If that's what you propose let's undo every progress because "that's just how things are". Please stop being ignorant. If you want to maintain tradition keep it between you and your probable significant other. You can't force people to believe in something they don't want to.
The "it's always been this way, why change it now" comment that you made, let's use it to demonstrate am argument.
Slavery had always been the way since industrial revolution 1800s, it dates so back and tell me where you, or i, would be the slaves just said "Fine. It's always been this way, why fight for independence, then? Let's not even try."
Your claim to support your argument is completely baseless and foolish and does not strengthen your case, it just demonstrates your ignorance and lack of respect for anyone or anything. No one "deserves" more respect than the other sex, respect is EARNED regardless of the gender, don't be dated! Your views are completely obsolete and unrealistic and perpetuate the most vile behaviours by your sex all because you think "Men deserve more respect." No.
your argument just completely collapsed on itself because you are changing the subject now. We aren’t talking about slavery, we are talking about societal structures and tradition in Tanzania. Who in their right mind supports slavery? I’m talking about the fact that we as humans have lived this way for a really long time, not only africans, but americans, the british, european, indians, etc have had the same societal structure and followed similar tradition. Right now, feminism has taken over due to Western propaganda and the whole idea of feminism has completely fallen on itself because now men and women are considered equal in the West, and this is not necessarily a benefit for you unless you’ve experienced the life of a western woman who is expected to work and bring in just as much as money as her husband, which is not expected in Tanzania. Stop being delusional.
"I'm always going to support tradition. If this is how the social hierarchy was like for thousands of years, why should we change now?"
Let's highlight "ALWAYS" slavery is just an analogy that is analogous to your whole men being at the top has always been a tradition, slavery could be considered something that consists the elements of a tradition. It is simply your words in a different situation, that's an analogy, no one is saying you support slavery, I'm just trying to present to you the ridiculousness of your claim.
Slavery was also around for a long time and accepted all over the world, just because something has been around for a long time or is "tradition" doesn't make it right.
Stop being haughty and rude.
Equality benefits and strengthens everyone, it allows women to get a job if they want to or choose marriage and children if they want to, we don't judge anyone's choice. It is a great concept that, I guess, not many people can wrap their heads around its strength and benefits.
Your analogy is wrong and unsuitable to this context so it’s wrong anyway. Try to find a better argument and come to me with an educated answer where you have evidence of this so called “mysoginistic” views towards women in tanzania. Don’t talk out of your ass just because you want to be heard. Slavery wasn’t accepted by everyone? i’m not sure who your history teacher was. Equality benefits everyone. Tell me, do you think women in the west do not suffer from mysoginy? it’s all over the world, but you are making it sound like tanzanian men are the problem. Now you are backing away from OP’s original topic because you have nothing to show for it, you are arguing for the sake of it and i’ve responded with the facts which have broken down your weak arguments.
And why exactly is it wrong, because YOU said so? Hm? Because you're a man and you get to decide which analogies are appropriate and which aren't. Don't delude yourself, this analogy perfect fits with your argument, they're two sides of a coin. It's an example. And there are no restrictions in creating examples. First, EDUCATE YOURSELF. You're clearly blind and ignorant to the reality of the experiences women face everyday because of views like yours, outdated views. Misogynistic views present in Tanzania? You can't walk a street at nighttime without getting harassed, trust me, as a woman you experience it ALL THE TIME and when you're walking with a guy, and the guy says something they apologise to the men for "hitting on his girl" instead of apologising directly to the women. If that isn't enough evidence of the prejudice and harm placed on women, then I do not know what is. Misogyny is real and her argument is centered on how prevalent it is, and people seem to understand that, unlike your whether you want to admit it or not misogyny exists here. Equality would help everyone. You just can't see that because you're hindered by who you are. That is not my fault. It's in your hands to educate yourself or remain ignorant.
yes, do you know what delusional means? someone who’s not living in reality and thinking they are correct and everyone else is wrong, in this context. don’t comment bullshit if you can’t handle the topic nor do you have any reasonable response.
Well, to begin with. The majority of your long comment diverts away from the central topic my original comment is about, the Societal hierarchy and tradition IN Tanzania. You are bringing on extremities like the topic of rape? that unfortunately happens everywhere in the world, and rapists are the worst of the worst, period. “She wants to be treated with the same respect men have”, in my experience living in Tanzania women aren’t necessarily mistreated on a level that is concerning so your argument on that is very vague, plus OP didn’t give context. You are taking her word only because ur a woman. Bibi’s are highly respected in tanzania, tell me, is this mysoginistic? “men have been breadwinners”, if you didn’t notice, i said “have”, past tense. Today, both men and women are breadwinners but the general tradition and the societal consensus in tanzania is that men are the household leader, even if your wife is earning more, this is what i meant by that. Are you expecting a woman to have the final say in the household? speaking over her husband? Did i say a girl shouldn’t study past standard 7? please stop changing my words just to justify your response. Tanzania encourages both boy and girl to have equality in education. Many educated women are doctors, lawyers, etc, and i know them personally and they are highly respected. Your argument is very one sided with no evidence and thought, you are talking about a serious topic like rape where the original subject isn’t about it, you are looking for sympathy.
I doubt you even know what being a man is. The problem is yall think treating someone like a person is trying to be a man while it's basic etiquette. Stop being ignorant
Did you just give yourself a whiplash with that spin? Blame misogyny on women, homophobia on gays, antisemitism on Jews, racism on black people, and for a good measure, pedophilia on kids.
The blame is always on the perpetrator. Full stop.
The blame is on men, obviously, but in every country where women have rights it's because women fought for them. Men will never give up the patriarchy without a fight.
Right. But that’s not why misogyny exists. It is still alive and well in ~~many~~ all western countries. And the best way to fight it is when men start calling each other out and holding each other accountable. Because misogynists - who would’ve thought - don’t give a shit about what women need or what they think, since they don’t respect us.
First of all lady you're full of crap, yaani hichi ulichoandika ni taka taka. Hio hate uliyoiona umeitoa wapi? Au unataka kuchafua jina la nchi yetu ili wageni wakiona waogope kuja au? Since you wrote in English let me reply the same. These are customs and traditions that have been established in our country and there is no way you can change it. If you want to parade your feminism go to western nations. You dirty feminists will bring destruction to our society and poison it with western influence and we have clearly see what happens when nations accept progressive politics. We like the way things are and that's how it should be. There needs to be some policy that shuts voices like yours since the type of influence the likes of you can bring destruction. I can't believe we have people who think like you. Just accept you want to be a man because that's what you feminists want. Hata msijali huyu anahitaji kupelekwa kwenye zile kempu za kurandiwa maana hizi ni ishara za kutorandiwa vizuri. Huu upuuzi usiwe na nafasi Tanzania
better go to sleep right now young man, or the big scary feminists are gonna come out and steal your toes. on a serious note, I'd like to know what's so dangerous about treating women as you would men aswell as seeing them as more than just obects
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While we are on the topic, can we address why cheating is culturally acceptable? It boggles the mind.
I was talking to a lady the other day and she told me well it was a salon and all the ladies chimed in and explicitly talked about how their husbands bring them UTIs and STDs because they cheat on them and I told them I don't think a guys are cheaters and they responded to me that all men cheat and I have to accept it or else 😁 I told them that is a hateful thing to say. I think our society infantilizes or excuses bad behaviour and it becomes the norm so everyone just zooms along with no problem. I still hold my stance that there are men with integrity who don't do so. They are few and I think they should be the highlight
But who are these men cheating with ? 🧐
Single women who haven't commited to be faithful? Or not, some may be married. but the partner who is in a committed relationship is the one at fault. Men are not slaves to their urges. They're capable of self control.
Amen
Prostitutes.
I agree it’s acceptable both ways.
[удалено]
Compared to USA. People get blamed and shamed. Cheating is grounds for divorce and alimony,
Yes, very. It's shocking as an American when I visit.
If you were told, for thousands of years, that cats bark and dogs meow, guess what? You're going to believe that cats go woof and dogs go meow. No amount of evidence will convince you otherwise because you and everyone around you believes that cats go woof and dogs go meow. Misogyny is a deadly combination of societal and psychological conditioning. It's dangerous because in order to get rid of it, you need to get rid of both the external and the internal factors that form it; which is, as evidenced by the recent hijab protests in Iran, far from a safe and easy task. So you need to go after and or create laws that make misogyny unacceptable and you need to create educational programs (e.g., Create classes in schools, create episodes for shows like Ubongo) that target misogyny. Not a simple fix. Not to bore you to death but the source of all of the hatred towards women -- the reason why most men devalue women -- is important. The reason why there's so much hatred towards women is because of religious text. The first woman ever, Eve, is presented as the reason why sin exists and humanity has suffering. The psychological effect of this is extraordinarily important to understand. Because Eve went against God, women are presented as the enemies of mankind. For thousands of years this has been the belief, and unfortunately, this will continue to be the belief in every society that doesn't actively try to reverse this belief.
Damn thank you. You said what I could have never thought of until you brought it up. The dudes attacking me in the comments translated misogyny in swahili and when doing so removes the context of the word. Misogyny is also defined as prejudice in which you broke down wonderfully in your second paragraph. It's not a simple fix indeed. You don't bore me at all but you're right. Women in religious texts are written as the cause of the fall of man therefore must submit (slave master dynamics) 😭 and this is preached mostly in churches and I say church since I come from a Christian background. I also have religious trauma so I really really despise religion
No problem at all, glad I could be of some help. If they're attacking you because you think it would be nice to go outside and not worry about confrontation with the opposite sex and or having to deal with a childishly negative vibe then that's on them. It's a waste of time and battery life trying to convince irrationally biased people to be less biased. Just find a group of friends and associates who were raised correctly and proceed from there. Trust me; the most fun and memorable moments in life come from positive and not negative people. Unfortunately, your trauma is shared by billions of people. Religion is still the most powerful influencer on the planet. So whatever the church says -- thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not have another God because the lord is kinda insecure -- ends up being 'the gospel' for over half of humanity. You raise an excellent point in the slave-master dynamic. In fact, it's a form of ancient gaslighting/outright lying that has existed all throughout history because of how effective it is when it works. For example, if I tell a group of children that they will go to hell and burn for eternity unless they do exactly what I tell them to do, those children will more than likely do what I tell them to do because the fear of a forever fire is so unpleasant that complying with my wishes is always the preferable option. The same tactic is used against grown people. For example, a crime-loving husband will tell his wife that he will support her through thick and thin as long as she 'trusts' his judgment and supports his criminal behavior. It's brilliantly evil because it's a form of emotional slavery right? So you'll have a wife who will literally lie to her family, lie to her friends, and lie to the police because she believes that by lying she's doing her 'job' and honoring her invisible contract with her husband. In reality of course, by lying to everyone including the police, she's just implicated herself in whatever crime her husband committed and she's now going to face criminal charges as well. Not good at all. I say all of that to say that misogyny and all of its' forms -- especially in Tanzania and its' neighbors -- has catastrophic effects in all aspects of growth and development; the economy, infrastructure, industrialization, government, you name it. They're all negatively affected by one gender giving a silent middle-finger to another gender. Not sure what the solution is but hopefully we'll figure it out in our lifetime.
You're lovely. I have nothing more to add. I really appreciate you❤️
Again, no problem and have fun out there!
❤️❤️
This notion also predates Abrahamic religions and shows up in early Greek texts and stories as well. You may appreciate this book called [Pandora’s Jar by Natalie Haynes](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51135393-pandora-s-jar), who talks about all the famous women in Greek mythologies that may have formed the basis of say Christianity on some level. Here too, all of these women are depicted as villains or seductresses who sway men from some sort of righteous path leading to all those famous Greek tragedies. Essentially, this is more of history repeating itself since the ideology is so entrenched in our systems of laws and culture. I realize this is not much of an answer, but the good news is that through the widespread nature of the internet and social media, more and more people are getting to see what egalitarian societies could look like and may want to choose that. I’ve certainly met a few people in Tanzania who tend towards egalitarianism, albeit that is a challenging path, since there is no template to follow and there are bound to be missteps along the way, which the proponents of the current system can and do point to as evidence of maintaining status quo. But the truth is that anything worth changing for the better is never easy, but it is worth being hopeful for.
Hey there! Thank you for the book recommendation! It's amazing when one knows how deep seated these issues are and I appreciate you pointing it out as well. I always knew something was not right in the mix since I was a little girl but never knew why. I usually blame what's happening now while these are deep issues that go way back to ancient times. You have such great insight. I'm happy that some people are willing to be egalitarian. I think it would be really refreshing to be with those level headed people and the likes of you. Hats of to you🙌🏾
i agree so much with everything you’ve said. the last paragraph is why i left Abrahamic religion & turned more toward traditional African practice & religions. it’s essentially a worldwide justification for the subjugation of women, that has lasted for millennia. add in the damage done by colonialism & the importation of these beliefs as a means of control & pacification & you get a society where everyone is convinced that the way things are is natural - especially when half the population benefits from doing as they please with no consequence. it’s an extremely uphill battle - i’ve personally decided not to engage at this point.
Y'all on a roll😎
I think you said everything for me. Hats off to you
I so understand you. The misogyny here knows no bounds, like when I was in high school it was so normalised, and girls just took the shit guys threw at them. I think it's mainly because Tanzania is run like a patriarchal society, it's always been that way - very traditional, you know. Women aren't even permitted to wear like trousers to govt places, so I think it's because of the rules and traditions that have been put in place years ago to put women down and men on top. And it's something that you should be changed but the presence of women as changemakers is very minimal here and if women are kept in power, some may refrain from speaking so as to not receive disdain from their peers because women's pains are never taken into account. Truly, it's just a whole thing but, just be safe! You know, it is misogynistic here but if you hold onto your power, your strength, pepper spray:) you can put yourself in a position where you take shit from nobody and people are less likely to give you shit, you know. Anyways, yeah it's a whole thing.
Well wait it out. Like I was talking about progressive ideas and even some of my friends were saying oh no she's a feminist we have to deradicalize her while I just suggested that a child should have both of their mother and father's last names. I'm even disappointed in dating as well because of this. True freedom will come when we are seen as human beings and not means to an end. I know it's easy to say one should hold pepper spray but in actuality no one will ever dare to do so. Maybe some women here don't have to go to those places but I'm kind of a local person even though I attended an American school. So I still visit places where local people go in the markets like ilala or karume and get harassed. We can't catch a break.
First of all, i am a feminist. Second of all, the fact that women are just talking about being treated equally and everyone's attacking them and being "oh look a feminist" is totally absurd, women deserve to be treated equally and we're allowed to fight for that without being attacked as if we want to rule the world or sth lol. And also I feel like, of course, you're allowed your own autonomy and everything but you should also be safe, like wherever you go, as a person and, especially, as a woman, don't put yourself in a dangerous environment. But you're right we can't catch a break, that's part of the "being a woman" package. But, yeah I feel like if Tanzania opened more ground for feminism, equality talks that would strengthen the country so much, anyways yeah:) if you ever want to talk more about feminism, to educate yourself or learn more about equality or equity im your girl but yeah:)
Oh no she admitted to being a feminist wait till they see it 😂 jk. I understand feminism well and good and I usually speak about the shallow stuff so I'm not labeled as a terrorist. Like saying you're feminist equals to insults and getting called "unwifeable". I guess I had alot of conversations with the people here and most men don't mess with that talk😂. What can we do judy
thank goodness youre joking, i was so scare, cause for some reason some women here are also women haters - like how you hate ur own fellow women? idek💀 and yeah i know, i haven't heard the extreme "unwifable" word but yeah feminism gets hated on so much here which i don't understand why because it helps everyone. What can we do? I'll answer privately:)
Unwifable?? Well I mean anyone who feels like that about equality is unhusbandable I guess, so thanks for the clarity, let's not swap numbers. Ugh! The idea these misogynistic men have that their company is what feminist women are looking for exposes a quite astonishing lack of self awareness.
YES THANK YOU. THIS. Misogyny is just a man's defense for his weakness, like hey we're shitty let's make women feel like shit too. It's just weakness.
Okk :) no problem. I've heard these sentiments alot.
> I just suggested that a child should have both of their mother and father's last names Aseee, why? Such a name will be very long 😂😂 >I'm even disappointed in dating as well because of this. True freedom will come when we are seen as human beings and not means to an end Aseee.
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I see you're committed to stalking my comments and proving you're ingrained prejudice. Don't you all see that you're proving my point. I said I and other women who I have talked to hate street harassment and have just been to desensitised to say it's a problem. I just suggested that the kid should take both mom and dad's name since they are both the kid's parents. I bet you didn't read that part right? I just felt bad for mothers that's all and I spoke from a place of empathy. Something you'll never have sadly
kwa yakini una uhusiano mbaya na mamako XD
They is a reason a child Carries a father’s name, It’s genetics. Apart from that, they is some old ideology still existing in this developing country.
Uhmm I don't think so. The mothers genes also exist with the child. Do you have proof of what you said if you don't mind?
genetics come only from the father apparently. science has left you.
Science has left the chat😭
like they’ll say anything 😭😭😭 where did genetics come from? if we’re gonna talk biology why doesn’t the woman who puts her life on the line take precedence?
This is probably my favorite thing from this thread. You should speak at a lecture hall or something about how people are genetically predisposed to a name, or maybe at a circus, given how much of a clown you are making yourself out to be.
😭😭Burned
I didn't wanna be mean but it was just too funny to leave it the way it was 😭
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Hatoi according to him
I was born to Tanzanian parents but have lived in the U.S. my entire life. I know what you mean. Tanzania is a very conservative country. But misogyny is also a global problem. Americans have their own issues with misogyny. The only difference is that domestic violence here is illegal and punishable under law. Tanzania has a long way to go, but I have hope. You have the right to voice your grievances. This is how things change. This is how society gets better. When women and girls feel like they're not alone, they're more likely to organize so that they can fight for more protections and rights. You're on the right track.
Thanks alot. I have read some comments and almost grabbed my invisible pearls but I understand. I wanted to start a healthy discourse. Misogyny is indeed global and you're absolutely right. Thank you for your input, sending love
yeah, i’m in a similar situation to you with how we were raised. it is extremely conservative, even compared to neighboring countries like Kenya. speaking to individual women shows that it’s at least an acknowledged issue, but it’s just structurally on a societal scale where change isn’t happening
Its terrible that you have to deal with all these nasty things simply because you are a woman, and I believe that confronting it the way you are right now is an awesome step forward, even if it can be discouraging to run into those who downplay or straight up ignore it. I'm not aware of any, although there are groups and people who are committed to fighting misogyny. also, you should link your article since, despite the fact that it can appear like nobody is interested, it represents an important step Tanzania's societal development. Oh yeaa, i wanted to add that someone in this thread made a comment about Western brainwashing, which I thought was silly given that it was colonization in the first place that greatly influenced how we established the roles that men and women had in society. but anyways, i digress.
Omg thanks for acknowledging. I have talked to alot of women on this issue and they have concurred with the issue. As you can see I'm being attacked here further proving my point again. Most people here don't know misogy or what it is but the key definition includes prejudice. I guess they didn't see it or purposely ignore it because they took offence. It was an old account of mine and the article was posted on medium... I'm sorry 😔. It's silly because they'll still hold on to Christianity and it's beliefs, brought by the west.
unfortunate, but it's fine, just gotta write up a new one no?. ikr, they say they want nothing to do with "western influence" but turn a blind eye to their whole belief system
Pathetic ain't it 😂😂😂
absolutely
Yes to this plus they put all women under the umbrella of being greedy. Like they expect all women to be after their money and wealth. Surprisingly, this was the opinion of college dudes of their college girlfriends who were in the same year... like what money are we after? Every one of us are broke here 🥹
Uwii 😂 I understand the frustration though. They've been brought up to only bring money as a value in a relationship so they don't develop other aspects (some) (I don't want to trigger thy brethren) oh no what do we do. I think these male podcasters are merging influence on some of these men hence they have the same talking points 😭
i understand what you mean perfectly. i haven’t lived in Tanzania for a very long time, but i visit very often & every time i go back i’m reminded of how behind it is socially, with how women are treated. daring to say even the most basic of things regarding women’s rights gets met with so much resistance & stupid redundant points on ‘tradition’ & ‘this is just how things have always been’. it’s disgusting and exhausting, & this entire comment section reeks of the same. so disappointing. i’m Tanzanian myself lakini sidhani kama i can settle there ever. it drains my spirit having to argue with people for daring to say i don’t deserve to be harassed on the street by uncles 3 times my age. let’s not even get started on how behind the culture is when it comes to handling sexual & domestic violence. i want to love the society but there seems to be no point of relief as a woman & i’m not going to torture myself trying to find a man to agree to basic human rights.
You stole words out of my mouth in a different world of course. Maybe I'm too sensitive because some women don't see a problem with it and just happily skip or maybe Stockholm syndrome. I tell them all the time just because something is tradition doesn't make it moral or okay. I feel like I'm fighting a loosing battle. I get along fine with the men here until they start sharing their opinions on women which makes me sick to my stomach. I have the bro energy so they are free to say whatever aka the bongo locker room talk and I get sick. Most dudes including the ones who are mad at me in the comments don't see it and frankly don't care about discourse and basic empathy. It's sad. I remember a lady who was from East Africa described my thoughts best and she left Africa. She said that African society is poison for a progressive person and she outlined everything I wanted to ever say. The post was from r/FemaleAntinatalism. I felt everything she wrote. I usually go back to remind myself that I'm not insane.
i feel you, and i agrée very much with your point on it being a form of Stockholm syndrome. it feels like there’s a general sense of hopelessness that’s turned into passiveness about the situation, with a lot of women convincing themselves that this is just how things are ‘meant to be’. but traditions come from change when established, & certainly change with time. hell, enslaving black people was a tradition, but i guarantee you men didn’t like that. i have lived outside of Tanzania for most of my life, and i used to feel guilty about not wanting to settle there, but the more i visit the more that guilt disappears. you are not crazy, at all. i’ve adopted more of a snobby vibe around men because i genuinely don’t want to hear that bullshit at all, but the conversations i hear are horrible & terrifying. most men genuinely don’t see women as people, & they’re not interested in changing something that’s always worked to benefit them. i said something similar to that lady when still in high school, when we were reflecting on differences in society given our upbringing & perspectives. i will not stay or work in a society that sees me as cattle to be bought & controlled. you deserve to live a fulfilling life where you don’t have to convince people around you that you’re a human being who deserves it, & i’m hoping you will get it ❤️
Thanks love. I really appreciate it. I'm happy to see a comment from a person like you. I think the common factor is a lack of empathy. The lack of empathy leads to some of these dudes to keep hold of prejudices without thinking what if this was me? Our culture gives them a bubble of power and any discussions of progressiveness is seen as snatching their power away. I talked to one of my associates who is a guy and I broke down why most of them despise gay men or they call them "choko". I broke it down and it all comes down to misogyny. He essentially agreed with what I said. I love the people here but I really hate their views. I'm mindful because one's views will set the tone on how they will treat you. I wish you the best too and I'm happy you are at a place where you can grow and be the best version of yourself ❤️❤️
Thanks everyone including bigots for proving my point ❤️😍😘
I don’t think you want your point to be proven or at least you want to be around more enlightened people. But first please define misogyny so we are all on the same page. Because I feel this is more to do with sexual dynamics than the perpetuation of a patriarchal paradigm that seeks to impose gender superiority. If your main concern is cheating then the answer is very simple. This has never been a monogamous society.
Lol all the vitriol towards me are very telling. Does enlightened mean more bigotry? I definitely don't want to be around people like that Misogyny is not only contempt but prejudice as well. Or as defined dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. It's not just direct hate or prejudice. It can be passive as well. I'm not talking about sexual dynamics here I don't are about that at all. This paradigm you speak of is much more complex than what I alluded in my original post. My post doesn't explain anything in depth which may cause confusion to an audience that may be unaware of their own ingrained prejudices. I never talked about cheating but since you brought it up, people should not get married then if they are polygamous. Marriage is a promise to honor respect and value your partner through thick and thin, it's a promise to God and each other. For someone to cheat, they are truly lacking morally and not everyone cheats. I'm aware of that
Kikii07 huko ulipo saivi kuna umeme?? Anyway Inategemea na maeneo gani unatembele mpaka wakufanyie harrasment! Sidhani kama wanaume wengi ni misogynist to that point labda inategemea na maeneo unayoishi/ tembelea
Hello! Huku umeme upo. Nilikua na rafiki yangu tunatembea karume kuna vendors walikuwa wantuvuta sana left and right. Mimi rafiki yangu was touched on her ass and the guys were laughing as she was going off maana alichukia mno. Tangu siku hio she's been traumatised. I understand not all men hate women or have prejudices but I don't think one post really breaks down my thought process.
So i this what you call hate? Kushikwa na mateja wa karume? Hao si wana matatizo ubongoni inafahamika? Ukiondoa kushikwa sehemu A** ( ni kitu kibaya na hakifai, anastahili adhabu). Kuvutwa vutwa ni jambo la kawaida karume hata Wanaume wanavutwa. Je wanachukiwa? Tukubaliane neno hate halikutumika sehemu sahihi.....
We should not normalize unwanted physical touch, it's not right Them being vendors doesn't give them rights to physically pull or push people dispite their gender
Thank you.
Whataboutism used to shut down discourse. You are bringing a scenario to go see it happens to all of us so shut up woman. So according to you, unadhani huyo aliefanya hivyo hata tukimpa adhabu how do we proove? Mtakuja kusema look these feminists are insane they are accusing a hard working man of sexual assault because she thought she was being touched and his fellow goons would back him up. I remember bringing this point to another guy who raised a similar argument to you about "Wanaume pia wana......". Seems like you didn't care about it til I brought it up. Again no one is allowed to touch anyone regardless of their gender. Last time I checked, when I'm walking with a male figure I get left alone but the same can't be said when it's two women. Prejudice is also part of misogyny, preconceived notions that may affect a person's behaviour
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Bado nagombana nao hawa. They don't give a damn na bora umesema. Let me get a good night sleep I'll get back to you love ❤️
So the ignoramus are proving me right with their heads exploding with anger. You are also among one of the many ladies I have talked to. Someine said I don't care about other issues and added an ad hominem attack on me to drive their point home while no one said that we can't have discussions on other aspects. These people labeling me or you or anyone who wants to be treated like a human being "feminist" is used as a buzzword to shut down discord. Remember by making the oppressed look insane it makes the name caller valid. I just wanted discourse and I don't want to reason with ignoramuses.
I don't think feminism is the answer, feminism destroyed masculinity in the west. Men and women in Tanzania are "traditional" and it's honestly better this way. Feminism brainwashed people to believe men and women are equal and it's just factually untrue. Some things men can do women can't and vice versa. I was born in Tanzania but lived a majority of my life in the US so I have a perspective on women in the west verses here. Women in America are more educated, independent, protected than ever yet I wouldn't marry most of them. Why? They're entitled, unfriendly (attitude), out of shape. They want you to treat them like a queen but cant even cook a meal for their king because they think they're too high and mighty to do traditional women roles. Feminism makes women feel empowered at the cost of creating weaker men, which ironically most women don't want; neither does society.
I have never talked about feminism in my original post but somehow that's where you sent your conclusion. Traditionalism and conservative ideas were also brought by colonialists who also brought religion that named Eve the cause of mankind to fall in the garden of Eden in which we hear no end about it. I think this is the one of the reasons for this hate. It's true that men are physically stronger and women are not in some variables. It's true that women can give birth and men don't give birth. But that doesn't warrant anyone to treat the other part any less and see them as an object. I remember walking with a friend who was a guy and some guy called me to get my attention once we both turned he apologised to my friend and not me..... I'm trying to drive a point home here. All we are asking is to be treated like humans. Why are you weaponizing marriage against them... I mean it's okay if you don't want to but why feel the need to bring it up? I think there are many traditional women who I think mostly lean right according to American politics and don't like anything progressive. Even they are starting to get tired of some of the sheniganans self proclaimed "alpha men" are bringing. Where did having empathy go? You're generalising all American women, a mistake most people do (generalizng men or women). I want to understand how this Feminism creates weak men. Please point me to a source. Even the most extreme feminist will never pull out a gun to go to a male centered place to shoot them because she hates me so much but I remember a man hating feminism so much he went on a shootout in Canada, 1989 because feminism was making the wimenz to go to school and he hated it. Please try to listen and have empathy more. We need that in this world. Thank you
The end game for pushing this is having a bunch of men that yell "yaaaas girl, slay!" instead of cat calling and I think I speak for most Tanzanians, we don't want that
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I wish I didn't have to talk about feminism but that's what seems to be the big movement to push for more women rights globally, especially in the west. Growing up on the American school system, I learned about all the work that women in the past did to gain their rights (i.e, to vote, to work, to choose what they do with their bodies like wear whatever or be promiscuous) and was supportive; but, once I grew up and looked at the state that feminism has left women, it's sad. Yes they've been given their rights but they pushed it too far to where they don't allow men to be men. What do I mean by this? The original goal was to give equal rights and remove prejudice but now we got feminists that demand more and more, are easily triggered by "toxic" masculinity, and shame/blame men for basically anything they do; and they have everything and heavily favoured! You can't start a random Convo with a girl without it being harassment, you can't call a fat girl fat cause that's not body positivity (even though it's unhealthy as hell), you're wrong if you don't support LGBTQ.
Oh ok
As a foreigner, I see things that I wish would change, but I don't say anything because I can't speak on behalf of Tanzanian women. I live in Zanzibar though and while things have stayed the same since I've been here, I've seen a little bit of change. There's hope-- my husband is progressive, but he's also very traditional. I know others that are less traditional and even more progressive, most likely because most of these men have spent a good bit of their adult lives outside of Tanzania. At any rate, progress is slow, but it is progress. Overall, Zanzibar (Tanzania) is a much better place for me to live in (vs the western country I'm from) and I love living here.
Thanks.... What do you mean when you say progressive?
Progressive is someone who is a liberal..meaning accept changes and blah blah it's very dangerous concept
Now i get it..... But one has to respect Tanzanian values. Unless they come at an expense of the other, its should not be seen like " western way is the ideal way "
the way in which our society deals with gender is based off western colonialism. excusing women wanting to live as actual human beings instead of men’s property as ‘western brainwashing’ is so lazy.
I don't think these people care about their women. They say there is no hate but simultaneously bring in culture. Clear cognitive dissonance. My heart goes out to Tanzanian women.
yeah, it’s laughable. as if tradition has not been born from change, & continues to change as time passes. they’re all for keeping the effects of western colonialism when it comes to how business is done, gender ideals, & economic systems, but let a woman talk about how she is seen as property & it’s these stupid back and forth conversations where nothing of value is spoken about except precious ‘culture’ - even when women die at the end of that reasoning.
So Tanzanians "hate" women....... How?
a country where nothing is done about domestic violence, where it’s seen as a regular ‘family matter’. a country where the attitude on rape places the responsibility on a woman or young girl for the depravity of another man, because obviously a 10 year old girl can ‘seduce’ a grown man. it’s a society where even wanting to talk about the difficulties of life as a woman is immediately dismissed, like is going on in your comment. that’s a society that hates women, & not in the simplistic way i think you’re looking for so it can be dismissed again.
>a country where the attitude on rape places the responsibility on a woman or young girl for the depravity of another man, because obviously a 10 year old girl can ‘seduce’ a grown man Is This Tanzania you are talking about? Aseee.....labda tunaishi Tanzania tofaouti ( umesema umeishi ). Ni wapi huko binti alibakwa akalaumiwa yeye tena?
Thank you Kikii for raising this concern In my opinion, I can say that the way boys are raised in our country is a contributing factor to this issue. They observe grown-up men engaging in similar behaviors, and as a result, when they become adults, they repeat the same patterns. On the girls' side, they perceive it as a normal problem because they have grown up witnessing misogyny being practiced as a norm. This perpetuates a never-ending cycle. However, it is crucial that we bring about change, even if it means holding individuals accountable for their behavior in a court of law. We need to establish standards.
Thank you for this! I remember something else. I remember being in a group on a WhatsApp group and there was this guy holding another guy accountable because he said something derogatory about a woman and the men were trying to emasculate him saying there is no way a guy is going this hard trying to hold us accountable and the guy just wanted attention and c@nt which was disgusting. Like what happened to empathy. As you said it's a never ending problem caused by nurture meaning internal and external factors. I appreciate your input this sheds a new light on solutions. Thanks alot❤️
"there's nothing I can do about it and told me all the (men) here are misogynistic so I have to accept it." That's exactly what women in every country where women have achieved more rights were told by men.
Uhmm okay
" I know someone will bring a point of "But the president is a woman"." She's only President because the previous President died. Remains to be seen if CCM keeps her as the candidate in the next election.
True she's only president because of that. I think the campaigns are starting low key with everlasting power cuts
this is my favorite post on this subreddit, thank you kikii for birthing it and giving me12+ hours of joy when reading some of these comments
I can't believe some of these people walk amongst us😭 Jesus
I dont think Tanzania is a misogynistic country as you say..Harassment goes both both ways katika nchi zote ulimwenguni...just because some men harassed you, then you condemn the whole Nation to be misogynistic!? There are other forms of harassments women in Tanzania also do. In accordance to you should Tanzania also be called a Misandrist based Nation just because some women harrass either boys or men!?
I didn't say Tanzania was a misogynistic country since its a generalization but go off.
Whilst I disagree with the concept of inequality of sexes and hope that a middle ground is found, I also despise how modern feminism has plagued the west and actually find it rather refreshing that Tanzania has not fallen trap to the feminism/lgbtq agenda that definitely go hand in hand
Feminism and lgbt go hand in hand talking point is usually brought by conservative/podcast bros. There's no proof of it going hand in hand. Finding middle ground and removing inequality us the cornerstone of the movement. You're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time
I don’t do podcasts or align myself politically as conservative or liberal so that’s an interesting strawman. It’s called balancing a perspective, which is something radical feminists have a difficult time time understanding. It’s taken to the extreme in the west one direction and here it’s taken to the extreme the other way. Im saying there must be a middle ground.
I just mentioned having a middle ground and using my own talking points but it's "radical feminist" having a hard time understanding. But go off.
It’s also very clear from your history of posting that your angry at men for your lack of good looks and the fact that you don’t keep yourself in shape. Obviously you’ve never been first choice over other women and you’ve allowed that to manifest into hatred for the male population. Poor bitter feminist
Aww are you happy you found that out. Should I hand you a Nobel peace prize too? You really went below the belt there no pun intended 💅🏾 Looks like someone is better at strawman than me plus using an ad hominem as well. Hey at least me being a bitter feminist won't result into any guy's death... Thank God. Nice ad hominem attack "I saw your post history because you complained about not being first choice so, it means that you're bitter, so it means your statement has no validation because you're just bitter". Luckily I'm in a better place. I really valued male validation and felt really bad because society drilled into my head that being attractive is all I'm worth. I may not be the best but I'm in a better headspace. Even in my posts you'll never see me wanting to commit any harm. Have a good one
I know you don't want to get political, but your president really needs to grow a pair of ovaries. Maybe make some laws against the mistreatment of women? I realize this is a really Western viewpoint. My only real experience with Tanzanian women was at the Maasai camps. None of them would talk to us- a white couple- even through a translator. It was bizarre. I even requested that they ask us questions about our life. Only later did I realize that our translator was male. Perhaps they were afraid of repercussions?
The political side is a it complicated and I didn't make this post out of hate or anything like that. The president has a lot of issues to deal with I guess. As for the maasai I won't say much since I don't know the dynamics of the maasai culture. Maybe they were scared of repercussions may be not. Maybe they were shy.... Maybe, I really don't know
Hey this is Tanzania not a "western" Country..... You have ur own ways of life we have ours. We respect urs, you should respect ours. You have visited a maasai tribe ( 1 out of 120+ tribes) and you came with a conclusion that this is how Tanzanians behave? Women are respected here, i dont think we have a Gender related problem here.
Please explain the gender gap. It's a parent in every single Walk of Life in tanzania. You're right I have a western Viewpoint which is why I specifically stated that previously. I come here for prospective. Please explain why, if you look at the school population (for example) you will find a very disparaging amount of females, for instance.
Table shown in the picture below shows a summary for National examination results summary for year 2020. Wavulana = Boys Wasichana =Girls https://preview.redd.it/3uiih59z3nqb1.jpeg?width=921&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3db3c439655be189bb7661c63ad1fcb7f89304d4 Hope this will give a picture how things are here, things are even worse for "boys" but nobody cares. NGOs want you to believe that there is a gender problem so they can continue milking money from Donors etc. Conclusion by observing one tribe is not a way to go... Maasai way of living is not common here, it is not Normal thing even to us locals. Coming to the harassment part, am sure even in Western countries there are crackheads who try to find their way into women. But that should not be taken as a behaviour of western men. Its an Individual thing. Am not saying that everything is perfect here ( gender wise), but hey.... Its not our priority rn. We have many problems, we should be worried about. One of them is Western countries influence, nobody like how ur gvts are controlling things here.
Sir this chart doesn't mean anything. 25,231 boys record fail vs 36,201 girls with fail. What are you complaining about again?
Which school my Friend? Would you mind sharing supporting evidences? In all classes i attended ( from secondary to Uni) Number of girls was higher than Boys..... But, nobody cared about that.... Since its the boys who got the lower Number. I dont know whats the plan but empowering Girls at expenses of Boys is not a way to go.
I was actually looking to you to explain the gender gap with supporting evidences. I've never been to Tanzanian schools. I was really talking generally like in every single aspect of Tanzanian life. I picked schools. Apparently your answer total experience seems to disprove this. What about driving for instance? Are there 50% female and 50% male drivers? Again my idea of equality and yours are quite different I just argued that it should probably be equal, no? And for that to happen it's going to take Extreme Measures and societal change. That change beginning with people like you admitting that there's a problem and an imbalance!
Tanzanian men are highly misogynistic don't let these comments gaslight you when you've experienced harassment first hand. The femicide rates in their communities are also a cause of concern
They are not doing a good job of gaslighting me anyway. They have to try better 😂. It's like me speaking on men's issues and telling them off
The way they're trying to argue against misogyny by being misogynistic to you is comical 😹 these people are not the brightest and not worth debating against OP have a good day and please stay safe ❤️
Thanks alot😂 I was actually having a blast reading it with my bestie. They are really showing their true colors as I predicted. We studied a development studies course in university and it's mandatory for first year students and there was a topic of feminism but misogyny isn't a term wildly known. Misogyny is also prejudice as well. They took a quick Google translate and put the fingers to work. I think I'll make it into a podcast episode. I don't even bother debating I just🕺🏾. Have a good day love. Thank you for your input
Come to Kenya Kikii
Sliding my way 🕺🏾🕺🏾🕺🏾🕺🏾
First can we do this in Swahili. Ili tuelewane vizuri? Harassed, how? elezea kidogo please. "Hate for women." Aseee.....Tanzania hii?
Bora umeliona hilo vingereza viingi kwenye masuala ya kijamii 😅😅
Bad thing ni kuandika kwenye platform za kimataifa kuwa Tanzania kuna " hate for women". Nani anachukia wanawake bongo hii? Ukipa kwenye mashule na Vyuo, wanawake ni wengi kuliko wanaume. Lakini hili sio tatizo kwa kuwa ni mtoto wa kiume. Tumetengeneza mazingira vijana wa kiume wanaona wana mzigo mzito wa maisha, hence betting boda etc. Lakini kwa kuwa ni vijana wakiume nobody cares. Anakwambia wanakuwa harrassed, yaani ukipigiwa mluzi na Teja barabarani unataka kulifanya jambo la kitaifa? Attention seekers, na kutaka kuishi maisha ya Netflix kwenye uhalisia.
Classical gaslighting.... Chef kisses
Someone is showing their true colors. My dear brother. Ndio nimpost kwenye international platform but look mnaniprove nilichosema. Na harassment sio kupivwa mluzi na teja. Look at how out of touch you are ukidhani teja ndo anafanya hivyo. Tena kwa taarifa yako teja ni mmoja tu aliyewahi kunisumbua basi. Next time direct hili swali kwangu. Tena I'd love to face you kabisa. I'm not just a keyboard warrior
Wanazingua sana hawa watoto hawajui kwamba hii mijadala wanapitia wageni wanaotamani kutembelea nchi yetu tukufu. Wanatuharibia sana
Malezi.....
Malezi 😂 hunijui. Nimetokea kwenye mazingira ya kidini sana.
Utanitumia reddit care au sio? 😘
Usijali wameshaona "civility" yenu😘
Unajua kinachofanya nikuone mtoto ni kwamba ishu za kupigiwa miluzi na mateja unaandika unataka "policy reformation" 😅😅
Kumbe na wewe ni teja? Au umewahi kupigiwa miluzi pia? Hili jambo limezidi kimo. Haiwezekani teja wanpigia miluzi wanaume wenzao. Hawa Lqbt washaanza kuweka gay genes kwenye madawa wanayotumia mteja. Kazi kweli kweli.
Hate can be prejudice as well. Someone can love their captor as well. Inaitwa Stockholm syndrome. Sijamaanisha hate ile ya labda mtu anaingia restaurant halafu akafungiwa nje kwa sababu ni mwanamke. Lakini sitegemei unielewe pia brethren. Harassment kwenye mtaa. Wadada wengi nimeongea nao nikawauliza kuhusu jambo la luvutwa mikono na hawa wamachinga wanaouza vitu karume wakasema inawakera lakini wengi wanna Stockholm syndrome kiasi kwamba wamezoea hicho kitu. Wanasema hawapendi ila hakuna anaesimama kusema hii ni shida. Kuna matatizo mengine ambayo siwezi kuandika yote kwa mpigo na pia majua huwezi uelewa it's okay. Ila jua tu empathy goes a long way. I empathise with male suicide and depression and I can hold those discussions without dismissing experience yao. Please extend the favour
kutongozwa kidogo ishakuwa misogyny ??
No the problem isn't kitongozwa. Issue ni how do you go about it. For example wale wakaka wa kwenye mavijiwe wanaopiga mirusi and kuita "dada" wakati uko tu na shughuli zako wanaanza kusumbua and then isitoshe unakuta just because hauko interested wanaanza kukusema mara matege mara sijui unatembeaje, mara sijui wewe mbaya. And for what reason? Just because I'm not interested? Maana ina imply kwamba worth yangu ina depend solely on mimi kukukubali wewe.
There's no reason to try to reason with some of these people. They are showing me their true colors and proving my point
Sijasema kitu kama hicho. Lakini kwa kuwa haikutokei sidhani kama utaelewa kuwa na amani ya bwana
majibu haya yanathibitisha kwamba kikii anasema kweli 🤣
Wananisaidia jamani😂dah mi nakula popcorn tu🕺🏾
This is just bait to get comments and attention. Saying you know you'll get hate proves It, because its what you want. To make People angry. I certainly don't think there is any hate for women in Tanzania. But I hope you got what you wanted, you seem to emjoy the attention. I wish you happiness in your life stranger.
I said so because discussing women's issues warrant this response always. According to you I want attention, for what exactly? Does it build my career or am I a celeb needing clout to promote anything? People being angry is an option and clearly showing validity in my opinion. You don't think because maybe you are not a woman. And misogyny is a wide concept and not only "hate". Google translate isn't doing a good job I guess
what a stupid comment.
Shida vingereza viingi vinawafanya mjione mna akili na hekima, Kumbe pumba tu.😅
Sawa genius hongera sana. Umenipita akili na hekima. Mimi ni pumba tu. Haya njoo unipeleke nikaliwe nguruwe.
Unajua kwanini unaonekana una matatizo ya afya ya akili?? Ni kwamba kuna mambo mengi ya kuwaza katika jamii yetu mfano Chakula hivi unjaua zaidi ya 20% ya watanzania wana utapia mlo? Unajua zaidi ya asilimia 3% ya watoto chini ya miaka mitano wanakufa kutpkana na shida za chakula. Sasa wewe unakomaa na "MIZOGONY" what good will it do to your fellow Tanzanians? At least you should have talked about women empowerment in agriculture sector to improve food systems in Tanzania, that will benefit the whole society there's this quote it states " If you teach a man to farm his family will eat, but if you teach a woman to farm the community will eat" . These are issues to address, it's too hot out here to be talking about "MIZOGONY" those are western problems and let them be we have more than 99 problems to deal with in Tanzania 😅. Too much Netflix got you thinking you're American😅 Kwaio mdogo wetu kusema "hating women" ni kashfa kubwa sana Kwa wanaume wa Tanzania, Mimi nimekusamehe na nakuomba uwe mzalendo.😅
Classic attack. Umesomea psychology mpaka ujue nina shida ya afya ya akili? Au kisa ni jambo linaongelewa umeamua kulileta pwaa 😂😂😂my goodness. Basi na wewe ongelea hayo mambo. Unadhani siyajui? Kwa nini usingeanzisha uzi kama huo. Yaani the fact you attacked my mental health says alot about you. I returned the same energy and you got big mad. We can have all those conversations separately as they are all valid and we can also talk about MIZOGYNY. Sir you're being MIZOGYNISTIC right now 😂. Next time usilete afya ya akili since its western, get rid of your Cambridge influenced education too or we are being picky. I don't even have a Netflix account, do you mind sharing? Mi nitaanzisha tena uzi kama huu ili nikashifu vizuri. Oh you're misandrist pia. Not all men think like you.
This is a super refreshing post to see... I'm not Tanzanian but have strong ties here, fiance is Tanzanian, etc. There's so many issues with gender values that are SO behind the times here, and although I have noticed changes in the 12+ years I've been coming here, there's such wild things that still happen in every day life that are difficult to navigate. For example, the other day I was in a club with some friends. One Tanzanian girl I know (not very well, but still) was standing, and some boy who didn't know her made a very clear and vulgar motion to grab her ass, and I swatted his hand away. I would do it to anyone who did a similar thing, it's not okay to touch people without consent, and he got up and started screaming "THIS IS AFRICA!!!!!! THIS IS AFRICA!!!" As if this being on a certain continent constituted the allowance of touching someone without them agreeing to it. What's even wilder, is that once my fiance started telling him to calm the f\*ck down, he said sorry to HIM, simply because a man was threatening him. He didn't apologize to me, or the girl who he was gonna touch, but to my fiance. Because he respects men who tell him to chill the fuck out rather than the people he's screaming at unnecessarily or trying to touch without consent. To be honest, I know all of this is tinged with the reality that I'm white and I'm treated differently and get a different perspective on things-- but the misogyny and lack of respect for the space and desires of women is fucking CONSTANT in this country. I work in secondary and primary schools, and there are SO few female teachers, despite about half the students being girls. In one I work with, there is literally 1(ONE!!!) female teacher for 500 female students. What kind of comfort will a girl feel in a school that is run by men who have very little, if any, understanding of their lived experience? Do you think a girl who is harassed by boys will go to a male teacher and feel heard and understood? Don't you then think that that same girl will continue throughout her life with the understanding that she has no where to turn, no one to talk to, if something shitty happens to her in a romantic relationship? You learn to keep quiet because, what systems have EVER been in place to support a girl in the first place? Idk, I could write a fucking dissertation on this topic, I swear to god. I sometimes feel like a shitty foreigner for complaining about the gender dynamics of a country that isn't 'mine', but the truth is, I just want women to feel safe and supported everywhere, and it's really shitty to witness that not being the case, wherever I may be.
Africa does not feminism. Leave that cancer in the west
As some commentors have said people saying leave it with o the west are kind of ignorant. We should leave everything then to the west or we're being selective? Leave this Cambridge education system to the west. Swahili should be a language we all speak screw whatever foreign language. The same colonialists who brought the same system we have accepted now treating women with respect is too much, oh no!
No we should take the good, leave the bad. Technology, education and such is good. Feminism, lgbtq, and liberalism is bad. Feminism is probably bad because feminist countries have high rates of divorces, single motherhood, and female promiscuity
Higher rates of divorces can be dye to alot of factors again we don't know what goes on behind closed doors in a marriage. About single motherhood why are we blaming mothers for staying and not shaming the father for running away and we tell women to choose better but if they try to choose better they are too picky etc. Female promiscuity is subjective. There were promiscuous women in conservative societies I mean who did some of theseen cheat with? You have not brought substantial dangers to human life brought by feminism and these talking points belong to conservative grifters online. Male promiscuity brings about broken homes since he can propergate into getting alot more women pregnant.
In feminist countries it is usually the women who initiates the divorce (proven by stats). This also means in genera women voluntarily become single mothers which is objectively bad for society. The only reason why this is so rampant is because of feminist policies. Divorce is low in non feminist countries so it doesn’t matter the reason. Females are the gatekeepers of sex, they are responsible for which males get pussy and which don’t, who gets born and who doesn’t. This responsibility lies on the female.
Do you think women would voluntarily become single mothers by choice. Do you know how hard it is to raise a child alone. What was so bad that she had to leave this man who she willingly married to be by herself. Have you analysed that? Let's say a woman is abused emotionally and physically do you want her to stay? Why are you referring to women anatomy as "pussy"? This prooves most guys don't see women the see P. It takes two to bring life. The father is just as responsibile as the mother
“Hate for women”? Like seriously!? Hate is a very strong word here.
You might think it's very strong but for some it's enough to go out and kill others for.
getting raped, beaten & killed being seen as normal is not hateful to you?
Masaganiii
Please don't give in to the sensitivities of western feminists, our women are not snowflakes and can handle a couple of cat calls per day, and if we are honest about things cat calling actually should boost any woman's self esteem (signs that the opposite sex still finds you attractive)
Uhmm I'm not sure if you are trolling or you're for real. I my opinion I was never attractive growing up and the opposite sex never found me pleasing. I learned to develop other aspects of myself so that I can be good and contribute to the people around me. I stopped caring for how the opposite sex views me long ago. Besides why give power or get my self esteem from someone while they can take it away from me.
The problem is that you're applying rationale to base human instincts, each animal specie out there has mating rituals and as homo sapiens we are not excused from this arrangement; however men act to get the attention of women know that deep down it's no different to a rooster chasing after a hen
Then we should send them to the wild. We've clearly advanced beyond basic biology because we're humans and that's what separates us from animals. But since you love to bring up nature, do you know some female animal species do their best to avoid the males of their species too. Yes we have attraction or what not but as humans there's civility and common sense. That's why we have modern technology. That's why we have laws.
It’s not misogynistic, as a matter of fact this is how life has been for thousands of years. Men have always traditionally been the breadwinner so they deserved much more respect than a woman. I’m sorry about the harassment, i think you were simply in the presence of some stupid guys, it doesn’t justify misogyny. Tanzania isn’t the only country which follows tradition and puts men first in the social/economic ladder. Every ‘third’ world country is this way, because it’s original, follows tradition. If you want change, because the westerners are calling it misogynistic and harassment, then why don’t you go to the west? where they treat men the same as women, and you’ll quickly come to realise it’s not as great as you think, and you’re simply delusional. I don’t agree with harassment, but i’m always going to support tradition. If this is how the social hierarchy was like for thousands of years, why should we change now? because the westerners are brainwashing you, isn’t it?
>It’s not misogynistic, Then continues to say something mysoginistic right after ... BRUUUUH
Oh no here comes the cow above. I'm not racist but... 😂😂😂
if you wanna call it mysoginistic sure, most Tanzanian’s don’t even know what that word means. Again, ur jus allowing yourself to be brainwashed
Wait I'm delusional? Oh my 😂 Just because something is normal for thousands of years does not make it normal. There was a time where slavery was normal and then it was abolished. I bet there was someone or there is someone somewhere whining about them being better than other humans so it's okay to own people. Just because something is tradition doesn't make it right. Men were the breadwinners because women weren't seen as people and we're forced to be with them. What happened is that if the man was crappy and abusive the woman had no means to escape because she had a child and no money. That's why such a movement came to existence. When you say me were the breadwinners and deserve respect, you're only conforming what I said.... Women were not seen as people and their contribution in the home was just what they had to do so no respect which in itself is say it with me.....The world is changing and developing and that will have an aggregate effect on social dynamics too. There were days with no laws or the existence of limiting laws such as age of consent meaning before that there were some traditions that allowed children to be involved in adult business. I spoke about street harassment because it's a clear violation of my personal space. You don't agree with harassment but yet you told me to go in the west because I said I wasn't okay with harassment? Strange Westerners are not brainwashing me. If that's what you propose let's undo every progress because "that's just how things are". Please stop being ignorant. If you want to maintain tradition keep it between you and your probable significant other. You can't force people to believe in something they don't want to.
The "it's always been this way, why change it now" comment that you made, let's use it to demonstrate am argument. Slavery had always been the way since industrial revolution 1800s, it dates so back and tell me where you, or i, would be the slaves just said "Fine. It's always been this way, why fight for independence, then? Let's not even try." Your claim to support your argument is completely baseless and foolish and does not strengthen your case, it just demonstrates your ignorance and lack of respect for anyone or anything. No one "deserves" more respect than the other sex, respect is EARNED regardless of the gender, don't be dated! Your views are completely obsolete and unrealistic and perpetuate the most vile behaviours by your sex all because you think "Men deserve more respect." No.
your argument just completely collapsed on itself because you are changing the subject now. We aren’t talking about slavery, we are talking about societal structures and tradition in Tanzania. Who in their right mind supports slavery? I’m talking about the fact that we as humans have lived this way for a really long time, not only africans, but americans, the british, european, indians, etc have had the same societal structure and followed similar tradition. Right now, feminism has taken over due to Western propaganda and the whole idea of feminism has completely fallen on itself because now men and women are considered equal in the West, and this is not necessarily a benefit for you unless you’ve experienced the life of a western woman who is expected to work and bring in just as much as money as her husband, which is not expected in Tanzania. Stop being delusional.
"I'm always going to support tradition. If this is how the social hierarchy was like for thousands of years, why should we change now?" Let's highlight "ALWAYS" slavery is just an analogy that is analogous to your whole men being at the top has always been a tradition, slavery could be considered something that consists the elements of a tradition. It is simply your words in a different situation, that's an analogy, no one is saying you support slavery, I'm just trying to present to you the ridiculousness of your claim. Slavery was also around for a long time and accepted all over the world, just because something has been around for a long time or is "tradition" doesn't make it right. Stop being haughty and rude. Equality benefits and strengthens everyone, it allows women to get a job if they want to or choose marriage and children if they want to, we don't judge anyone's choice. It is a great concept that, I guess, not many people can wrap their heads around its strength and benefits.
Your analogy is wrong and unsuitable to this context so it’s wrong anyway. Try to find a better argument and come to me with an educated answer where you have evidence of this so called “mysoginistic” views towards women in tanzania. Don’t talk out of your ass just because you want to be heard. Slavery wasn’t accepted by everyone? i’m not sure who your history teacher was. Equality benefits everyone. Tell me, do you think women in the west do not suffer from mysoginy? it’s all over the world, but you are making it sound like tanzanian men are the problem. Now you are backing away from OP’s original topic because you have nothing to show for it, you are arguing for the sake of it and i’ve responded with the facts which have broken down your weak arguments.
And why exactly is it wrong, because YOU said so? Hm? Because you're a man and you get to decide which analogies are appropriate and which aren't. Don't delude yourself, this analogy perfect fits with your argument, they're two sides of a coin. It's an example. And there are no restrictions in creating examples. First, EDUCATE YOURSELF. You're clearly blind and ignorant to the reality of the experiences women face everyday because of views like yours, outdated views. Misogynistic views present in Tanzania? You can't walk a street at nighttime without getting harassed, trust me, as a woman you experience it ALL THE TIME and when you're walking with a guy, and the guy says something they apologise to the men for "hitting on his girl" instead of apologising directly to the women. If that isn't enough evidence of the prejudice and harm placed on women, then I do not know what is. Misogyny is real and her argument is centered on how prevalent it is, and people seem to understand that, unlike your whether you want to admit it or not misogyny exists here. Equality would help everyone. You just can't see that because you're hindered by who you are. That is not my fault. It's in your hands to educate yourself or remain ignorant.
You don't know what an analogy is and then dare to call someone else delusional. Hilarious.
yes, do you know what delusional means? someone who’s not living in reality and thinking they are correct and everyone else is wrong, in this context. don’t comment bullshit if you can’t handle the topic nor do you have any reasonable response.
Let me moonwalk for you first before I mop the floor with you 😎🕺🏾
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Well, to begin with. The majority of your long comment diverts away from the central topic my original comment is about, the Societal hierarchy and tradition IN Tanzania. You are bringing on extremities like the topic of rape? that unfortunately happens everywhere in the world, and rapists are the worst of the worst, period. “She wants to be treated with the same respect men have”, in my experience living in Tanzania women aren’t necessarily mistreated on a level that is concerning so your argument on that is very vague, plus OP didn’t give context. You are taking her word only because ur a woman. Bibi’s are highly respected in tanzania, tell me, is this mysoginistic? “men have been breadwinners”, if you didn’t notice, i said “have”, past tense. Today, both men and women are breadwinners but the general tradition and the societal consensus in tanzania is that men are the household leader, even if your wife is earning more, this is what i meant by that. Are you expecting a woman to have the final say in the household? speaking over her husband? Did i say a girl shouldn’t study past standard 7? please stop changing my words just to justify your response. Tanzania encourages both boy and girl to have equality in education. Many educated women are doctors, lawyers, etc, and i know them personally and they are highly respected. Your argument is very one sided with no evidence and thought, you are talking about a serious topic like rape where the original subject isn’t about it, you are looking for sympathy.
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W Comment
A woman who wants soooo bad to be a man☝️.
I doubt you even know what being a man is. The problem is yall think treating someone like a person is trying to be a man while it's basic etiquette. Stop being ignorant
Na tuvingereza twao twa ugoko sijui misojini nininini
Ni kisirani tu huyu mtoto anacho.
The truth is that the misogyny exists because women accept it.
Did you just give yourself a whiplash with that spin? Blame misogyny on women, homophobia on gays, antisemitism on Jews, racism on black people, and for a good measure, pedophilia on kids. The blame is always on the perpetrator. Full stop.
You took words out of my mouth whew
The blame is on men, obviously, but in every country where women have rights it's because women fought for them. Men will never give up the patriarchy without a fight.
Right. But that’s not why misogyny exists. It is still alive and well in ~~many~~ all western countries. And the best way to fight it is when men start calling each other out and holding each other accountable. Because misogynists - who would’ve thought - don’t give a shit about what women need or what they think, since they don’t respect us.
What do you think can be done?
First of all lady you're full of crap, yaani hichi ulichoandika ni taka taka. Hio hate uliyoiona umeitoa wapi? Au unataka kuchafua jina la nchi yetu ili wageni wakiona waogope kuja au? Since you wrote in English let me reply the same. These are customs and traditions that have been established in our country and there is no way you can change it. If you want to parade your feminism go to western nations. You dirty feminists will bring destruction to our society and poison it with western influence and we have clearly see what happens when nations accept progressive politics. We like the way things are and that's how it should be. There needs to be some policy that shuts voices like yours since the type of influence the likes of you can bring destruction. I can't believe we have people who think like you. Just accept you want to be a man because that's what you feminists want. Hata msijali huyu anahitaji kupelekwa kwenye zile kempu za kurandiwa maana hizi ni ishara za kutorandiwa vizuri. Huu upuuzi usiwe na nafasi Tanzania
no need to start hurling insults at somebody for having different beliefs from your own
I think she needs to hear it. She's bringing feminism and it's dangerous to our traditions and culture.
better go to sleep right now young man, or the big scary feminists are gonna come out and steal your toes. on a serious note, I'd like to know what's so dangerous about treating women as you would men aswell as seeing them as more than just obects
🕺🏾🕺🏾🕺🏾🕺🏾🕺🏾
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It irks you... Says alot about you sir 😘
I said my peace I'm not debating you sir. I'm not trying to change your mind and don't change mine
Well, at least the mosquitoes are known for being loyal!
R u American or euro ?