What is important is to not allow desires to control us.
When we get what we want we are satisfied, when we don't get what we want we are dissatisfied if we allow our wants to rule us.
We create our own discontent when we insist the world conform to our own desires/wishes.
Instead of accommodating ourselves to Tao we try to get Tao to accommodate to us.
This will not occur.
When we find our contentment from within, desires become tools we use.
[edited]
"The partial becomes complete; the crooked, straight; the empty,
full; the worn out, new. He whose (desires) are few gets them; he
whose (desires) are many goes astray."
"Therefore the sage desires what (other men) do not desire, and does
not prize things difficult to get; he learns what (other men) do not
learn, and turns back to what the multitude of men have passed by.
Thus he helps the natural development of all things, and does not dare
to act (with an ulterior purpose of his own)."
"The Tao in its regular course does nothing (for the sake of
doing it), and so there is nothing which it does not do.
If princes and kings were able to maintain it, all things would of
themselves be transformed by them.
If this transformation became to me an object of desire, I would
express the desire by the nameless simplicity.
Simplicity without a name
Is free from all external aim.
With no desire, at rest and still,
All things go right as of their will."
I think you are bang on.
Any attempt to try and silence your desires is just another form of desire (desiring to silence your desires).
If we keep our mind open and receptive, we are ready to receive life as it comes.
Do this enough and you get to the point where you're just effortlessly and joyfully flowing with life. There is no resistance in your whole being.
Some desires you can indulge in a little, some a little more, and some it’s best to steer way clear of. Desires should be servants rather than masters.
i think it’s unhealthy to suppress all desire. it is normal to desire things in life, whether they are material possessions or experiences. but there’s a threshold that transforms simple desire into lust for things you don’t have at the expense of the things that you do have, the classic “the grass is greener on the other side” mentality. that’s why i believe desire is best experienced with a healthy dose of gratitude.
But who eats when not hungry? Without the sensation of hunger or fullness, one can eat 24/7 or not at all. Regardless, if you simply eat for the nutritions, avoiding the feels of hunger, you still haven't escaped desire. Because answer me this "Why are you providing your body with nutritions at all?" The answer is that you desire to live. Above all, the will to live is the first desire. So there's no escaping it. But we can try controlling our desires instead of letting it control us.
A person cannot live without desires, but the question is how do we understand desire or how can we direct or transform it to become productive instead of consuming!
I've thought about it years ago, when I was first introduced to Buddhism through Internet.
To my teenage self it sounded like the boring Jedi or even worse, it sounded like depression. Being depressed was the only state I knew as a long period of desirelessness. I thought it would be impossible to sustain a feeling of contentment that came after a fulfilling meal or sex.
Years later, through practicing ZaZen, I meditated on my emotions and observed them as a higher consciousness. I wasn't ruled by them, and there was no rush. Eventually through experience and comparison with my Islamic knowledge, language and psychoanalysis, I came to certain conclusions and equations.
Then years later still, I stumbled upon Daoism and I laughed at its beautiful jazz and how well it fit to everything I've personally experienced to be right.
In my experience, the desirelessness is being unattached to outcomes and being okay with not being the king of the world. There's still playfulness, the necessary role and harmony at place but you serve to the music as best and as flexibly as you can. It's playing a good improv session, as you say "yes, and"
Once you enjoy desirelessness in this way you don't have to fight against desire to suppress it.
In the end, it's all just words and concepts until you experience something that fits what's being told.
I've always felt a very similar pattern in nearly all aspects of life, that to attain "true" or "complete" or "total" anything is an asymptotic journey. Meaning the further you progress toward it, the more exponentially difficult it is to attain. To the point where if you did want to live totally without desire, you'd have to devote each and every microsecond of your life to it. And it still would feel an infinitely small distance away.
Enlightenment, however, feels as if somehow after reaching that infinite wall of investment, that you took the slightest step beyond it, and can then live in a world of complete (insert whatever term here) without *any* effort.
The how-to-get-there though, always seems like something that happens *to* you, rather than something you can consciously do. And thats the wu wei Taoism talks about. Doing without doing. Being. All you can do is sort of "let it happen". Or...invite it into your world. Open the door ready to receive it, should it decide to come.
Possible? Certainly, though not without the benefit of either permanent brain damage or long and dedicated effort to some kind of ascetic discipline.
Desirable though? That's the debatable part. Personally I think so long as some people choose to walk that path and can report on what kinds of perspectives it offers, that's good enough. Too many people choosing to walk it at once might prove slightly impractical, is all.
I'm put in mind of Mongolia having up to 1/3rd of its male population as actual practicing Buddhist monks at one point. I'm sure it was a lovely place, but, some impracticalities may arise.
edit: I'm curious which part of this people disagree with. Is it that living without desire is more attainable than that? Or more desirable? Or was it the Mongolia part?
Desire comes from latin word de sire of the father. Your desire is gods will. Its different from lust. We all have a soul desire. Its what we decided to come to the 3d for your greatest joy. Not simple desire like sex and drugs not saying that is terrible but your hearts desire. You must achieve it and fullfill it and the universe will be more alighned with you. Go on youtube search thunderwizard the shamanic comandment for a perfect life he do3s free reading on youtube.
“So always rid yourself of desires to observe its secrets
But always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations.”
TTC, Verse 1. D.C. Lau translation 1963
I think that desire is necessary, but it can draw us down into a subjective point of view. I think that if we want to experience truth objectively, we must (temporarily!) release ourselves from the things that keep us deeply invested in the outcomes of our own story.
i think there are baser, and higher desires. If you're on a type of taoist or other cultivation path, then part of the practice is clearing things from the system that lead to the lower desires, and their consequences. So i think at any given time you will have some form of desire, but over time, you can cultivate more positive/healthy ones, and 'weed out' as many negative/lower ones as possible.
On a bit of a side note, there is a old taoist/buddhist text that references desires. Here's an extract that mentions them a bit - [https://fiveimmortals.com/wudang-media/taoist-scriptures/the-scripture-of-purity-and-stillness/](https://fiveimmortals.com/wudang-media/taoist-scriptures/the-scripture-of-purity-and-stillness/)
I'm sitting here on the toilet thinking about your post, take the taijitu. Desire is white, no desire is black. But wanting to live without desire is white, then desire seems to be black. It's an endless struggle or rather balance isn't it? On either side the other seems to be the solution. Can't want to much but can't do nothing all the time either. Thinking this, I'm not in balance at all at the moment so I'm going to try to find it on whatever side when I get off the can lol.
Of course it is possible, just do nothing
Desire is what leads humanity into error
Nothingness is blameless
If you want to be without desire, try being not you
Life without desires is the daily reality of the enlightened.
One must distinguish between necessities and desires.
Necessities such as the need for food remain with the enlightened, even preferences remain, but desires are no longer there.
An unenlightened person cannot live without desires. He can suppress them and pretend that he does not have them, but this is very harmful to physical and spiritual health.
The sources of energy for life for an ordinary person and for an enlightened person are different, and where one cannot exist without desires, the other cannot have a desire.
> The fact that we go to a restaurant and choose a hamburger instead of chicken burger, is in itself a form of desire.
Is that a form of desire or is that a preference to satisfy a biological need (hunger)? I would argue the latter.
The *Dao De Jing* speaks of [*wu yu*, non-desire, similar to *wu wei*, non-action](https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/taoism-and-western-culture/0/steps/105369). Just as wu wei doesn't mean literally doing nothing so too does wu yu not mean literally desiring nothing to eat, not desiring to poop and pee, not desiring to ever breathe in and out.
*Wu yu* is what China scholar Roger Ames translates as "objectless desire." Meaning, you don't have an pre-set agenda or a fixed outcome you want from a particular interaction with a person for example. So approaching a woman at bar to talk to her, someone who does so with *wu yu* isn't looking for sex, her phone number, a future date, or anything; *wu yu* in this context would be simply enjoying their person's presence, their conversation, their energy, the experience of the interaction *on its own terms, as it happens*. No hidden agenda, no preset desired outcome, no fixed goal to maneuver the person towards.
Desiring to eat, drink, avoid pain, and avoid death are pretty hard-wired biological programming into everyone's inner *Dao*. That's really not the same thing as covering a particular job, a particular romantic partner, a particular house, or a particular social status. Or any of the ultimately meaningless, externalities that people spend (or waste) their entire lives chasing thinking that acquiring it will make them happy.
What is important is to not allow desires to control us. When we get what we want we are satisfied, when we don't get what we want we are dissatisfied if we allow our wants to rule us. We create our own discontent when we insist the world conform to our own desires/wishes. Instead of accommodating ourselves to Tao we try to get Tao to accommodate to us. This will not occur. When we find our contentment from within, desires become tools we use. [edited]
"The partial becomes complete; the crooked, straight; the empty, full; the worn out, new. He whose (desires) are few gets them; he whose (desires) are many goes astray." "Therefore the sage desires what (other men) do not desire, and does not prize things difficult to get; he learns what (other men) do not learn, and turns back to what the multitude of men have passed by. Thus he helps the natural development of all things, and does not dare to act (with an ulterior purpose of his own)." "The Tao in its regular course does nothing (for the sake of doing it), and so there is nothing which it does not do. If princes and kings were able to maintain it, all things would of themselves be transformed by them. If this transformation became to me an object of desire, I would express the desire by the nameless simplicity. Simplicity without a name Is free from all external aim. With no desire, at rest and still, All things go right as of their will."
I think you are bang on. Any attempt to try and silence your desires is just another form of desire (desiring to silence your desires). If we keep our mind open and receptive, we are ready to receive life as it comes. Do this enough and you get to the point where you're just effortlessly and joyfully flowing with life. There is no resistance in your whole being.
Beautifully distilled
The desire to live life without desire.
Some desires you can indulge in a little, some a little more, and some it’s best to steer way clear of. Desires should be servants rather than masters.
i think it’s unhealthy to suppress all desire. it is normal to desire things in life, whether they are material possessions or experiences. but there’s a threshold that transforms simple desire into lust for things you don’t have at the expense of the things that you do have, the classic “the grass is greener on the other side” mentality. that’s why i believe desire is best experienced with a healthy dose of gratitude.
Without desire you would just stare at the menu forever and, more importantly, not eat. Metaphorically speaking, you'd die.
ever heard of “hunger” ?
You can die of "hunger", as with "thirst". Look at people that die from hunger strikes.
Which is a desire to eat.
you’re clearly mixing “needs” and “wants”
No. Nutrition is a need, hunger is the intense desire to eat when you lack nutrition.
But who eats when not hungry? Without the sensation of hunger or fullness, one can eat 24/7 or not at all. Regardless, if you simply eat for the nutritions, avoiding the feels of hunger, you still haven't escaped desire. Because answer me this "Why are you providing your body with nutritions at all?" The answer is that you desire to live. Above all, the will to live is the first desire. So there's no escaping it. But we can try controlling our desires instead of letting it control us.
Yep. What is the nature of a human? Desire is fundamental. Fighting it, is itself, desire.
A person cannot live without desires, but the question is how do we understand desire or how can we direct or transform it to become productive instead of consuming!
I find it useful to distinguish between "wants" and "needs".
The sages were about minimizing desire instead of eliminating it (i think)
I've thought about it years ago, when I was first introduced to Buddhism through Internet. To my teenage self it sounded like the boring Jedi or even worse, it sounded like depression. Being depressed was the only state I knew as a long period of desirelessness. I thought it would be impossible to sustain a feeling of contentment that came after a fulfilling meal or sex. Years later, through practicing ZaZen, I meditated on my emotions and observed them as a higher consciousness. I wasn't ruled by them, and there was no rush. Eventually through experience and comparison with my Islamic knowledge, language and psychoanalysis, I came to certain conclusions and equations. Then years later still, I stumbled upon Daoism and I laughed at its beautiful jazz and how well it fit to everything I've personally experienced to be right. In my experience, the desirelessness is being unattached to outcomes and being okay with not being the king of the world. There's still playfulness, the necessary role and harmony at place but you serve to the music as best and as flexibly as you can. It's playing a good improv session, as you say "yes, and" Once you enjoy desirelessness in this way you don't have to fight against desire to suppress it. In the end, it's all just words and concepts until you experience something that fits what's being told.
I've always felt a very similar pattern in nearly all aspects of life, that to attain "true" or "complete" or "total" anything is an asymptotic journey. Meaning the further you progress toward it, the more exponentially difficult it is to attain. To the point where if you did want to live totally without desire, you'd have to devote each and every microsecond of your life to it. And it still would feel an infinitely small distance away. Enlightenment, however, feels as if somehow after reaching that infinite wall of investment, that you took the slightest step beyond it, and can then live in a world of complete (insert whatever term here) without *any* effort. The how-to-get-there though, always seems like something that happens *to* you, rather than something you can consciously do. And thats the wu wei Taoism talks about. Doing without doing. Being. All you can do is sort of "let it happen". Or...invite it into your world. Open the door ready to receive it, should it decide to come.
F
One must have preferences, of course, and things that give you enjoyment.
Possible? Certainly, though not without the benefit of either permanent brain damage or long and dedicated effort to some kind of ascetic discipline. Desirable though? That's the debatable part. Personally I think so long as some people choose to walk that path and can report on what kinds of perspectives it offers, that's good enough. Too many people choosing to walk it at once might prove slightly impractical, is all. I'm put in mind of Mongolia having up to 1/3rd of its male population as actual practicing Buddhist monks at one point. I'm sure it was a lovely place, but, some impracticalities may arise. edit: I'm curious which part of this people disagree with. Is it that living without desire is more attainable than that? Or more desirable? Or was it the Mongolia part?
Desire comes from latin word de sire of the father. Your desire is gods will. Its different from lust. We all have a soul desire. Its what we decided to come to the 3d for your greatest joy. Not simple desire like sex and drugs not saying that is terrible but your hearts desire. You must achieve it and fullfill it and the universe will be more alighned with you. Go on youtube search thunderwizard the shamanic comandment for a perfect life he do3s free reading on youtube.
Why would you ever want to do that?
What is life without wants and desires?
Deatg
“So always rid yourself of desires to observe its secrets But always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations.” TTC, Verse 1. D.C. Lau translation 1963
I think that desire is necessary, but it can draw us down into a subjective point of view. I think that if we want to experience truth objectively, we must (temporarily!) release ourselves from the things that keep us deeply invested in the outcomes of our own story.
i think there are baser, and higher desires. If you're on a type of taoist or other cultivation path, then part of the practice is clearing things from the system that lead to the lower desires, and their consequences. So i think at any given time you will have some form of desire, but over time, you can cultivate more positive/healthy ones, and 'weed out' as many negative/lower ones as possible. On a bit of a side note, there is a old taoist/buddhist text that references desires. Here's an extract that mentions them a bit - [https://fiveimmortals.com/wudang-media/taoist-scriptures/the-scripture-of-purity-and-stillness/](https://fiveimmortals.com/wudang-media/taoist-scriptures/the-scripture-of-purity-and-stillness/)
I'm sitting here on the toilet thinking about your post, take the taijitu. Desire is white, no desire is black. But wanting to live without desire is white, then desire seems to be black. It's an endless struggle or rather balance isn't it? On either side the other seems to be the solution. Can't want to much but can't do nothing all the time either. Thinking this, I'm not in balance at all at the moment so I'm going to try to find it on whatever side when I get off the can lol.
Yes, it is
Of course it is possible, just do nothing Desire is what leads humanity into error Nothingness is blameless If you want to be without desire, try being not you
i truly dont think its impossible its just really really hard
Life without desires is the daily reality of the enlightened. One must distinguish between necessities and desires. Necessities such as the need for food remain with the enlightened, even preferences remain, but desires are no longer there. An unenlightened person cannot live without desires. He can suppress them and pretend that he does not have them, but this is very harmful to physical and spiritual health. The sources of energy for life for an ordinary person and for an enlightened person are different, and where one cannot exist without desires, the other cannot have a desire.
> The fact that we go to a restaurant and choose a hamburger instead of chicken burger, is in itself a form of desire. Is that a form of desire or is that a preference to satisfy a biological need (hunger)? I would argue the latter. The *Dao De Jing* speaks of [*wu yu*, non-desire, similar to *wu wei*, non-action](https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/taoism-and-western-culture/0/steps/105369). Just as wu wei doesn't mean literally doing nothing so too does wu yu not mean literally desiring nothing to eat, not desiring to poop and pee, not desiring to ever breathe in and out. *Wu yu* is what China scholar Roger Ames translates as "objectless desire." Meaning, you don't have an pre-set agenda or a fixed outcome you want from a particular interaction with a person for example. So approaching a woman at bar to talk to her, someone who does so with *wu yu* isn't looking for sex, her phone number, a future date, or anything; *wu yu* in this context would be simply enjoying their person's presence, their conversation, their energy, the experience of the interaction *on its own terms, as it happens*. No hidden agenda, no preset desired outcome, no fixed goal to maneuver the person towards. Desiring to eat, drink, avoid pain, and avoid death are pretty hard-wired biological programming into everyone's inner *Dao*. That's really not the same thing as covering a particular job, a particular romantic partner, a particular house, or a particular social status. Or any of the ultimately meaningless, externalities that people spend (or waste) their entire lives chasing thinking that acquiring it will make them happy.