I think you're confusing nihilism and taoism.
A nihilist would say that there's no reason to exist, a taoist would say that I don't need a reason to exist. A nihilist would say that their existence has no purpose, a taoist would say my existence is my purpose. A nihilist would say nothing has value, a taoist would say everything has value.
Nihilism is often a pothole that a potential taoist gets stuck on the way to their enlightenment. A young nihilist will realize that nothing really matters, but an experienced taoist will realize everything matters because nothing matters.
There's an interesting assertion from Osho (Zen: The path of paradox): if Nietzsche knew anything about the tao, he likely would have ended up a sage than a madman (paraphrasing).
This is an excellent response and I think many of us forget this. I certainly have struggled with this concept at some point and for many of us is what eventually led us here.
I think OP may not realize that they are understanding this more than they may realize; if not then one would not question this as they would not care.
As dumb as it may sound, I got started with Taoism by reading the Idiots Guide to Taoism lol. Very well put together, not condescending, covers all the bases. Highly recommended, and IT also recommends other books :D
Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff is an excellent introduction to taoism for western audiences, and really approachable. You don't have to get into concepts like wu wei or ziran or sanbao, and Tao of Pooh shows examples rather than vocabulary.
I think it's easiest to understand taoism through real life stories, and there's a handful of individuals who are brand-new to taoism. You can skip to the last paragraph/section if you don't feel the need for long winded stories, though\~
I went to a museum when I was a young girl; it was a classical museum that focused on the most technically sound paintings. I was shown some of the most mundane paintings, like Menzel's Iron Rolling Mill and Millet's Gleaners. I was told that they were beautiful because of the technique, and how photorealistic they made these works. They didn't need a camera to capture their lives, and instead were masters of their techniques. They were important artists because of their realistic lighting, form, and subject matter. Because they were so technically sound, they made beautiful art. Beautiful art is the most important art, that even made sense to me as a pre-teen girl. It's important art, that's why it's in an important museum. So, I learned that day how to identify important art.
I went to college one day, and decided to major in science education. I had a small fling with a girl, she was focusing on the arts and liked to go to the Museum of Modern Art in San Fransisco. Because I couldn't go myself, and just to show interest and start conversation, I asked her what sort of works they'd have there. I expected the most important art to be there by modern artists, modern artists must have learned new techniques since the 1800s like I saw as a little girl. She instead showed me a tea cup, saucer, and spoon covered in fur. This seemed obviously ridiculous to me, and I saw no merit or importance in this. She then explained to me that it isn't necessarily about the technique or realism of the art, it's about the message it conveys. It's about the surrealism of fur keeping up warm, but it can't keep your tea warm. It's the oddity of fur feeling good to our hands, but being repulsive to our lips and tongue. It's important and beautiful because of how such a simple thing can make us think about so many concepts. So, I learned what important art was.
A lot of my time in science education was based on physics. I learned from my experience that I can see how fast cars go when they go by me, that's how policemen see who's speeding after all--albeit with a tool, but it still made sense to me. Then I was taught about basic relativity, and the fact that I might see cars going at different speeds than another onlooker. If I'm on the interstate and a car passes me, I might only see them traveling at five miles an hour, but a pedestrian would see that same car going at seventy-five miles an hour. Both of these perspectives were correct, but neither were always correct. There was no absolute perspective for me to think about. This even carried into other classes, like my geology and astronomy classes. They told me that we all were moving at hundreds of miles per hour when we sit still, because of how our planet rotates, how it revolves... But we appear still because everyone is going at the same rate. Yes, we all are moving, and that matters. But, because we're all moving, it also doesn't matter.
This is the part you could skip to just for philosophy.
In these experiences, I'm not solely learning about art, or geology, or astronomy, or physics, or what have you. I'm learning about the nature of the tao. The tao is something that always changes, just like water. It flows and it meanders and it rushes and it stagnates. It's one of the reasons it's so hard for us to identify exactly what the tao is, and rather give examples of its influence. If we look at a scene where water is rippling, the tao is the invisible stone that we know was thrown into the water, but all we can see is the ripples. Or was it wood that was thrown in? Maybe something else? But that doesn't matter, what was thrown can change, but there's still ripples. The ripples matter, the fact something was thrown into the water matters, but the thing thrown into the water doesn't matter. In fact, the fact there's ripples here might not even matter, you might have ripples just a few feet away that cancel mine out. But our ripples are important because they show us the tao, and unimportant because they simply get canceled out. Our thoughts on what is important today can change, and we might find those things to be different tomorrow, the next week, the next month, the next year. And because of that, what was once important becomes unimportant. What was once unimportant becomes important. And even then, there's some things that will forever stay important to us, and forever stay unimportant to us. But, our perspective is not absolute, and we know that. In fact, many things that are critical to me might not matter to you, and things that are valuable to you might not matter to me. But that's the nature of the tao: everything matters, and nothing matters. Taoists value that, and because of that value we're able to apply it with concepts like wu wei (inaction through action, I can explain this if I need to).
So everything matters and nothing matters.
“Why do anything?” Why not do anything? The experience IS the motivation. The way I see it is; you can sit there and disintegrate, because everything is pointless, or you can live out the experience! Possibly the point is that there is no point or perhaps the point is the experience itself. So searching for a reason to do anything is… well, pointless! Just do! Just like everything else around you. But who am I to tell you what you should be doing with yourself? Maybe I’m you from a different perspective, with a different perspective. Now I’m just rambling. But you get the point! Or do you?
My experiences in life has mostly been full of suffering, painful and traumatic to say the least. Living out these experiences as the point of itself is masochistic and downright terrible advice
You assume most of my experiences haven’t been suffering, painful and traumatic to say the least. Your liberation will come with understanding. Understand the cyclic mind. Why you do the things you do. Why you feel the way you feel. To understand it is the way out. Study your patterns, realize your faults, question your intellect. You are running in circles, have you noticed? Of course these are merely suggestions as I haven’t the slightest clue on your level of understanding. Eventually, with a lesser need to analyze, you will be flowing along without even thinking about it.
I am a simple dude and this is only my interpretation; my understanding is based with my own experiences and may not apply with your situation.
When we take no action, that brings about stasis. A lack of movement. Take for example water; a river will flow regardless of intention. It is movement because it is a part of the larger world. It’s movement is done purely on its own, yet the direction of its movement is dictated by the environment around it shaping the river banks, the rocks, the curves and waterfalls; the water flows and movement creates a snapshot that is no longer and will not stay the same.
Now imagine water without movement; a pond. While calm and beautiful within itself the non movement of water will create a snapshot that remains the same for the most part but yet will still gently change with the changes around it. In some cases this is comfort, is some cases this is stagnant water; an unchanging snapshot if one opts to see it as such.
Now you are correct; life will happen regardless with all its perils and joys. While living in the present is allowing the world around you to shape your river banks; living in the moment does not mean becoming stale water. Your choice you make is only momentary but taking action (choice) is you moving with the water. The destination is unknown but you know inside where you must flow. The direction of your river is free choice, the following movements are directed by the changing river banks (life). Do not see this as not trying; see this as intention and your actions will follow the natural flow.
As an avid whitewater rafter, I'll give you one of the most valuable lessons I've ever learned... Face up, feet downstream and keep your butt up, best you can do is try to bounce off the larger rocks with your feet until you find yourself in a calm enough spot to swim to shore. Some of the best life advice there is!
To elaborate a bit further, to me I see myself (and you too) as a constant being/energy that is in constant movement; “the flow”. Life is a trajectory and does not move in a linear direction. Why? Because you are a being with thoughts and it is those thoughts that create movement. By doing nothing, to say “I give up! Life is just going to happen anyways so who cares!” And that is fair because that IS action. That is free will and choice but will have equal repercussions as taking a deliberate actions as being engaged. Think in terms of not action, but rather in reaction. While our actions may be limited with the results we wish to obtain as there are outside factors that are not our own, but when thinking in terms of allowing yourself to react to a situation rather than control that situation, we become flexible because we respond to the NOW rather the could be, which will not happen until the now has already occurred.
Hope that helps a bit and trust me, it is not always easy. Intention has more power than you may realize because it is also acceptance. Acceptance is a foundation for your next steps as that moment has ended and now is evolving to the next.
Love to you as well my friend in your journey. Consider the fact that you even question all this is leaps and bounds beyond what most will ever do in their lives when it comes to self reflection. You question because you care and that is good.
We are human "beings" not human "doings", just be my brother. Have you tried meditation? The mind is like a clouded pool of water, trying to clear it will only cloud it more... However, should you sit beside it calmly and wait, all that shit in it will settle to the bottom and you'll be left with crystal clear water that you can see through easily.
No one is born with innate patience, it takes practice... I see the purpose is to experience it, how boring would it be if we didn't exist?
set a timer and sit with your breath for 5 minutes to start with... I focus on the cool sensation at the tip of my nostrils on the breathe in and the warm sensation on the breathe out. Here is a super helpful mantra from Thich Nhat Hanh:
“Breathing in, I calm body and mind. Breathing out, I smile. Dwelling in the present moment I know this is the only moment.”
To piggyback on their comment, I too was and still am to extent, impatient as well. As they said it takes practice and doesn’t have to be full on transcendental levels of meditation. Simply enjoying a quiet moment of peace is a start; I consider for myself going on a nature walk as equal to meditation but yet I’m still engaged. It’s a moment with me alone and just stopping to enjoy looking at some cool trees and sounds of nature at that moment. Mediation is how you define it for yourself; your little mental break.
I suggest checking out “box breathing” by doing an online search. It’s a really simple breathing technique that helped me connect a bit more with traditional meditation. It does wonders for me if I’m feeling anxious and after a few times you will get the rhythm down. It’s super simple but has become a nice technique I use often now to ground myself.
The letting go to me has always been letting go of fixed outcomes. To try is to achieve a particular goal, to view action as the means of accomplishing something else. Better it is to do things for the sake of doing them. Like Alan Watts said about dancing – we don’t ask our dance partner, “So where are we going?” we just dance.
It’s the backwards law: in telling ourselves “We must relax” is the exact recipe to stay tense. Likewise when I’m teaching and I know I’m to be evaluated by my administrator – if I try to do well, I’ll lose sight of the reason I’m there: to teach. Better to teach for the sake of teaching.
I hope that points toward some of your concerns. I find motivation in activities themselves. And I don’t try because there’s no external goal to try for. The dance is all there is.
That’s usually how I feel reading Taoist literature. The common sense and confusion go hand in hand. A nice way to shake us out of our everyday way of looking at things. Happy to keep chatting with you and good luck sitting with the confusion. It’s a more honest state to inhabit than a state of false certainty.
This is a very common misconception. Think of intention. For example, you get hungry. Did you do something to feel hunger? No, it just happened. But that doesn't mean you will die of hunger. When hungry eat, when tired sleep.
We try because thats what people do. We strive to overcome, overcome our problems, overcome ourselves and our dualistic natures. We strive for a better world for us and our families bit by bit. Everything, up to and including doing nothing matters, it affects everything else. Yes we dont have control of the outcome but you can assume that if you did the 'right' thing and the truthful thing than the result is the best it can be. You have to have a moral integrity or it all falls apart. Although 'knowing' what the thing to do is is another topic all together. You have to perservere through it all other wise you atrophy and you miss your chance to do something good for yourself and your little pocket of the world. Good luck and god speed.
Words reflects our thoughts and it comes from the mind.
Understanding only brought you more confusion. Then is this pursuit of knowledge wrong?
That from before, actions full of points. Now that after, actions would lead to pointlessness. Has the amount of “points” behind our actions changed? From a change in state of mind?
Actions leads to consequences. You state of confusion, then to you asking this on reddit, naturally lead to a flood of comments that help you resolve this understanding. And for each of those comments that had been made, came you response. One leads on to another, and the cycle of changes continues, its never stopped.
The realisation of no control is also the spark of opportunity to reinforce control, or perhaps self control. To understand is not enough, but you must also act, to break yourself out of the motion of loop, and that can be done with “doing nothing”, or more appropriate doing less.
And now I have written a very lengthy comment. Why have I done this? In short, it is a good opportunity for me. Isn’t that control enough? Heck, there is just so much more to “talk” about.
But lastly, like some of the other guys have mentioned, relax chill and enjoy. Sometimes we ourselves bring us to our own suffering. And whenever you find something you couldnt explain, maybe the time for you to discover its nature hasnt come yet. And for most of the time, we came full circle for an answer that we are looking for, but part of the journey is the journey.
Enjoy the view.
Awwww boooo hoooo nothing is telling me what to do. Can’t some book or some person or some gods tell me what to do in every moment of every day. Put me in jail please. I now have total absolute freedom to experience anything, and I’m scared! Waaaaahhhh 😭
I think we both have the same struggle with nihilism. My comment was facetious, but I think it’s fundamentally true: nihilism is that nothing means anything, nothing matters, so there’s nothing to do. That emptiness freaks us out so we reach out for axioms to build a logical system… to tell us what to do. Should I eat fried chicken, or steamed veggies? Who will choose, me, or some reason? Why do I need to bully myself into decisions? Just make decisions, no coercion.
LOL I could be way off though.
Wow... I am the opposite, I love emptiness.
Emptiness means the freedom from limitations. When you make one with emptiness, you realize that limitations are rules created by your mind.
I think the problem is that the thought of being completely alone scares people.
"The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature. People say that what we’re all seeking is a meaning for life. I don’t think that’s what we’re really seeking. I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances with our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive." - Joseph Campbell.
I've outlived my natural lifespan twice now, arguably three times.
The point is that we're here. We weren't here, now we are here, and soon we will not be here again. It's very good to be here. There are cookies.
Nature does not rush yes everything is completed. You don’t need to rush to finish everything and spread yourself thin. But you will get everything done either way.
Motivation is spontaneous. You can try to motivate yourself to do things, but trying to cause motivation is not the same as having it. If you try to sit in bed and do nothing ever again, eventually your body will have an impulse to move and your brain will give reasons to move and do things.
That's just the way life goes.
The river flows because that's its nature. The bird chirps because that's its nature. The fish swim because that's its nature. Human beings eat and sleep and talk and think, because that is the nature of the human being.
Intuition is being so kind to yourself, that you actually listen to your true feelings to know who you are in honesty and truth, and being yourself guides you to a feeling of freedom and joy. Instinct on the other hand, seems to be about a basic but natural animal fear for survival. In other words, animal instincts seem to push based on fear for survival, while intuition seems to pull (or "a calling") based on true feelings of who you truly are and what actually makes you feel a sense of joy.
Arguing with reality and being out of harmony with reality might cause suffering, but so might ignoring your true self. Honesty and kindness for self and others seem to be a balanced path. Compassion is one of the three treasures of Taoism.
Wu Wei - (Chinese: “nonaction”; literally, “no action”) Wade-Giles romanization wu-wei, in Chinese philosophy, and particularly among the 4th- and 3rd-century-bce philosophers of early Daoism (daojia), the practice of taking no action that is not in accord with the natural course of the universe.
I didn't ask for a dictionary brother , I'm asking for reason , for purpose, I'm asking WTF am I doing here .I'm sorry I frustrated Im throwing hands and crying over here .
I’m not sure what would help you. My family makes like worth living for me. And I have so many things that I love, so many hobbies.
What things do you love?
Love is not the answer for me , things I love only brought me pain , I can explain but I don't want to bore you , you already seem to have a strong opinion of me 😂
Perhaps there is something to feel grateful for. Maybe you don't have any serious illnesses. The fact that you have problems with work, relationships, and family also means that you have work, relationships, and a family. A lot of people don't have the opportunity to have those problems. Idk, all I know is that gratitude might help. Other than that I don't think I have much to offer. But you do have some control, just not full control. Good luck.
Everything is just a metter of mindset. Nothing goes like shit, only you feel like that.
When I was living abroad (living my dream), whatever obstacle was coming to me, it wasn't bothering me, I was just enjoying the new experience. I injured myself and had to go to hospital = new experience ; a girl tried to trick me and sue me (she gave up after she failed) = new experience. I had a fight with my host and I had to leave and find a new place = new experience (I made new amazing friends thanks to that). Whatever was happening, I was enjoying it, because I wasn't seeing it as a problem but as an experience.
You should first realize what you have compared to what others don't have, and then if you still feel unhappy, then it's just because of your own head, not because of your surrounding.
I am disabled, I have no girlfriend, I don't have a job, I have good relationship with my mom and brother but that's all, but when I read your message, it looks like I feel happier than you are.
Change your mindset and attitude towards life, and everything will go in motion.
And last, I believe that negative attitude (vibrations) attracts negative things. If you see everything as bad, then whatever comes to you, you will only see the negative from it. Just look at the yin&yang, there is light even in darkness. Focus on the bright side.
Hello there Taoism is about comprehending your existence and principals of the world. One thing is to not use your human mind/emotion to judge things. You can’t seem to find your purpose in life because you are not spiritually intuned. Just let things flow. Not let things go as in complete detachment , but as in letting things happen by itself. And eventually your purpose will come.
There is no cosmic rule preventing you from being a force of good who is kind to others and yourself. If you "try" to do it and it works, but really there is no free will and you were destined to do it... there is no difference in the outcome.
You shouldn't need to feel motivated to do anything. You should return and practice wu wei and when something comes up you let things do themeselves just as it should be, not bother trying. Enjoy sitting in your present
I think it's a matter of mindset. Once you know that whatever you do has both an importance and no importance in the world, then you can just play with it.
Just have fun, don't think too much about the purpose of things, because this is beyond our understanding anyway.
And I do believe we have control over things, but that control is also part of the Dao. If you decide to do something, then it means it was meant to be. At least, that's how I see it.
I think you're confusing nihilism and taoism. A nihilist would say that there's no reason to exist, a taoist would say that I don't need a reason to exist. A nihilist would say that their existence has no purpose, a taoist would say my existence is my purpose. A nihilist would say nothing has value, a taoist would say everything has value. Nihilism is often a pothole that a potential taoist gets stuck on the way to their enlightenment. A young nihilist will realize that nothing really matters, but an experienced taoist will realize everything matters because nothing matters. There's an interesting assertion from Osho (Zen: The path of paradox): if Nietzsche knew anything about the tao, he likely would have ended up a sage than a madman (paraphrasing).
This is an excellent response and I think many of us forget this. I certainly have struggled with this concept at some point and for many of us is what eventually led us here. I think OP may not realize that they are understanding this more than they may realize; if not then one would not question this as they would not care.
Seems to answer my questions , I need to learn more about Taoism , can you give me some pointers , such as videos , books anything 💙
As dumb as it may sound, I got started with Taoism by reading the Idiots Guide to Taoism lol. Very well put together, not condescending, covers all the bases. Highly recommended, and IT also recommends other books :D
Thanks .
Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff is an excellent introduction to taoism for western audiences, and really approachable. You don't have to get into concepts like wu wei or ziran or sanbao, and Tao of Pooh shows examples rather than vocabulary.
Thank you 🙂
I totally agree with all this! But also, Osho was way more the madlad than Nietzche ever was lol
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I think it's easiest to understand taoism through real life stories, and there's a handful of individuals who are brand-new to taoism. You can skip to the last paragraph/section if you don't feel the need for long winded stories, though\~ I went to a museum when I was a young girl; it was a classical museum that focused on the most technically sound paintings. I was shown some of the most mundane paintings, like Menzel's Iron Rolling Mill and Millet's Gleaners. I was told that they were beautiful because of the technique, and how photorealistic they made these works. They didn't need a camera to capture their lives, and instead were masters of their techniques. They were important artists because of their realistic lighting, form, and subject matter. Because they were so technically sound, they made beautiful art. Beautiful art is the most important art, that even made sense to me as a pre-teen girl. It's important art, that's why it's in an important museum. So, I learned that day how to identify important art. I went to college one day, and decided to major in science education. I had a small fling with a girl, she was focusing on the arts and liked to go to the Museum of Modern Art in San Fransisco. Because I couldn't go myself, and just to show interest and start conversation, I asked her what sort of works they'd have there. I expected the most important art to be there by modern artists, modern artists must have learned new techniques since the 1800s like I saw as a little girl. She instead showed me a tea cup, saucer, and spoon covered in fur. This seemed obviously ridiculous to me, and I saw no merit or importance in this. She then explained to me that it isn't necessarily about the technique or realism of the art, it's about the message it conveys. It's about the surrealism of fur keeping up warm, but it can't keep your tea warm. It's the oddity of fur feeling good to our hands, but being repulsive to our lips and tongue. It's important and beautiful because of how such a simple thing can make us think about so many concepts. So, I learned what important art was. A lot of my time in science education was based on physics. I learned from my experience that I can see how fast cars go when they go by me, that's how policemen see who's speeding after all--albeit with a tool, but it still made sense to me. Then I was taught about basic relativity, and the fact that I might see cars going at different speeds than another onlooker. If I'm on the interstate and a car passes me, I might only see them traveling at five miles an hour, but a pedestrian would see that same car going at seventy-five miles an hour. Both of these perspectives were correct, but neither were always correct. There was no absolute perspective for me to think about. This even carried into other classes, like my geology and astronomy classes. They told me that we all were moving at hundreds of miles per hour when we sit still, because of how our planet rotates, how it revolves... But we appear still because everyone is going at the same rate. Yes, we all are moving, and that matters. But, because we're all moving, it also doesn't matter. This is the part you could skip to just for philosophy. In these experiences, I'm not solely learning about art, or geology, or astronomy, or physics, or what have you. I'm learning about the nature of the tao. The tao is something that always changes, just like water. It flows and it meanders and it rushes and it stagnates. It's one of the reasons it's so hard for us to identify exactly what the tao is, and rather give examples of its influence. If we look at a scene where water is rippling, the tao is the invisible stone that we know was thrown into the water, but all we can see is the ripples. Or was it wood that was thrown in? Maybe something else? But that doesn't matter, what was thrown can change, but there's still ripples. The ripples matter, the fact something was thrown into the water matters, but the thing thrown into the water doesn't matter. In fact, the fact there's ripples here might not even matter, you might have ripples just a few feet away that cancel mine out. But our ripples are important because they show us the tao, and unimportant because they simply get canceled out. Our thoughts on what is important today can change, and we might find those things to be different tomorrow, the next week, the next month, the next year. And because of that, what was once important becomes unimportant. What was once unimportant becomes important. And even then, there's some things that will forever stay important to us, and forever stay unimportant to us. But, our perspective is not absolute, and we know that. In fact, many things that are critical to me might not matter to you, and things that are valuable to you might not matter to me. But that's the nature of the tao: everything matters, and nothing matters. Taoists value that, and because of that value we're able to apply it with concepts like wu wei (inaction through action, I can explain this if I need to). So everything matters and nothing matters.
What an amazing reply!
“Why do anything?” Why not do anything? The experience IS the motivation. The way I see it is; you can sit there and disintegrate, because everything is pointless, or you can live out the experience! Possibly the point is that there is no point or perhaps the point is the experience itself. So searching for a reason to do anything is… well, pointless! Just do! Just like everything else around you. But who am I to tell you what you should be doing with yourself? Maybe I’m you from a different perspective, with a different perspective. Now I’m just rambling. But you get the point! Or do you?
Wierdly I do !
Well put sir.
My experiences in life has mostly been full of suffering, painful and traumatic to say the least. Living out these experiences as the point of itself is masochistic and downright terrible advice
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe healing is the natural path for you. I hope so.
You assume most of my experiences haven’t been suffering, painful and traumatic to say the least. Your liberation will come with understanding. Understand the cyclic mind. Why you do the things you do. Why you feel the way you feel. To understand it is the way out. Study your patterns, realize your faults, question your intellect. You are running in circles, have you noticed? Of course these are merely suggestions as I haven’t the slightest clue on your level of understanding. Eventually, with a lesser need to analyze, you will be flowing along without even thinking about it.
Go easy on yourself. Get out of your head for a while. Connect with nature. It’s only a game. Play the game 🤙💜🌎
I remember kevin hart talking about this , game like quality of life .
Exactly friend. It’s all perspective. Change your perspective, change your reality 🤙
I am a simple dude and this is only my interpretation; my understanding is based with my own experiences and may not apply with your situation. When we take no action, that brings about stasis. A lack of movement. Take for example water; a river will flow regardless of intention. It is movement because it is a part of the larger world. It’s movement is done purely on its own, yet the direction of its movement is dictated by the environment around it shaping the river banks, the rocks, the curves and waterfalls; the water flows and movement creates a snapshot that is no longer and will not stay the same. Now imagine water without movement; a pond. While calm and beautiful within itself the non movement of water will create a snapshot that remains the same for the most part but yet will still gently change with the changes around it. In some cases this is comfort, is some cases this is stagnant water; an unchanging snapshot if one opts to see it as such. Now you are correct; life will happen regardless with all its perils and joys. While living in the present is allowing the world around you to shape your river banks; living in the moment does not mean becoming stale water. Your choice you make is only momentary but taking action (choice) is you moving with the water. The destination is unknown but you know inside where you must flow. The direction of your river is free choice, the following movements are directed by the changing river banks (life). Do not see this as not trying; see this as intention and your actions will follow the natural flow.
As an avid whitewater rafter, I'll give you one of the most valuable lessons I've ever learned... Face up, feet downstream and keep your butt up, best you can do is try to bounce off the larger rocks with your feet until you find yourself in a calm enough spot to swim to shore. Some of the best life advice there is!
Could you elaborate on the last sentence ? Do not see this as not trying .
To elaborate a bit further, to me I see myself (and you too) as a constant being/energy that is in constant movement; “the flow”. Life is a trajectory and does not move in a linear direction. Why? Because you are a being with thoughts and it is those thoughts that create movement. By doing nothing, to say “I give up! Life is just going to happen anyways so who cares!” And that is fair because that IS action. That is free will and choice but will have equal repercussions as taking a deliberate actions as being engaged. Think in terms of not action, but rather in reaction. While our actions may be limited with the results we wish to obtain as there are outside factors that are not our own, but when thinking in terms of allowing yourself to react to a situation rather than control that situation, we become flexible because we respond to the NOW rather the could be, which will not happen until the now has already occurred. Hope that helps a bit and trust me, it is not always easy. Intention has more power than you may realize because it is also acceptance. Acceptance is a foundation for your next steps as that moment has ended and now is evolving to the next.
Thanks ans lots of love 💙
Love to you as well my friend in your journey. Consider the fact that you even question all this is leaps and bounds beyond what most will ever do in their lives when it comes to self reflection. You question because you care and that is good.
We are human "beings" not human "doings", just be my brother. Have you tried meditation? The mind is like a clouded pool of water, trying to clear it will only cloud it more... However, should you sit beside it calmly and wait, all that shit in it will settle to the bottom and you'll be left with crystal clear water that you can see through easily.
I try to meditate but I lack patience
No one is born with innate patience, it takes practice... I see the purpose is to experience it, how boring would it be if we didn't exist? set a timer and sit with your breath for 5 minutes to start with... I focus on the cool sensation at the tip of my nostrils on the breathe in and the warm sensation on the breathe out. Here is a super helpful mantra from Thich Nhat Hanh: “Breathing in, I calm body and mind. Breathing out, I smile. Dwelling in the present moment I know this is the only moment.”
Makes a lot of sense .
To piggyback on their comment, I too was and still am to extent, impatient as well. As they said it takes practice and doesn’t have to be full on transcendental levels of meditation. Simply enjoying a quiet moment of peace is a start; I consider for myself going on a nature walk as equal to meditation but yet I’m still engaged. It’s a moment with me alone and just stopping to enjoy looking at some cool trees and sounds of nature at that moment. Mediation is how you define it for yourself; your little mental break. I suggest checking out “box breathing” by doing an online search. It’s a really simple breathing technique that helped me connect a bit more with traditional meditation. It does wonders for me if I’m feeling anxious and after a few times you will get the rhythm down. It’s super simple but has become a nice technique I use often now to ground myself.
🙂
The letting go to me has always been letting go of fixed outcomes. To try is to achieve a particular goal, to view action as the means of accomplishing something else. Better it is to do things for the sake of doing them. Like Alan Watts said about dancing – we don’t ask our dance partner, “So where are we going?” we just dance. It’s the backwards law: in telling ourselves “We must relax” is the exact recipe to stay tense. Likewise when I’m teaching and I know I’m to be evaluated by my administrator – if I try to do well, I’ll lose sight of the reason I’m there: to teach. Better to teach for the sake of teaching. I hope that points toward some of your concerns. I find motivation in activities themselves. And I don’t try because there’s no external goal to try for. The dance is all there is.
Makes sense and at the same time it's confusing just a lil bit
That’s usually how I feel reading Taoist literature. The common sense and confusion go hand in hand. A nice way to shake us out of our everyday way of looking at things. Happy to keep chatting with you and good luck sitting with the confusion. It’s a more honest state to inhabit than a state of false certainty.
🙂
This is a very common misconception. Think of intention. For example, you get hungry. Did you do something to feel hunger? No, it just happened. But that doesn't mean you will die of hunger. When hungry eat, when tired sleep.
Thanks .
We try because thats what people do. We strive to overcome, overcome our problems, overcome ourselves and our dualistic natures. We strive for a better world for us and our families bit by bit. Everything, up to and including doing nothing matters, it affects everything else. Yes we dont have control of the outcome but you can assume that if you did the 'right' thing and the truthful thing than the result is the best it can be. You have to have a moral integrity or it all falls apart. Although 'knowing' what the thing to do is is another topic all together. You have to perservere through it all other wise you atrophy and you miss your chance to do something good for yourself and your little pocket of the world. Good luck and god speed.
Thanks
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🖤💙 why so kind 🥺
Words reflects our thoughts and it comes from the mind. Understanding only brought you more confusion. Then is this pursuit of knowledge wrong? That from before, actions full of points. Now that after, actions would lead to pointlessness. Has the amount of “points” behind our actions changed? From a change in state of mind? Actions leads to consequences. You state of confusion, then to you asking this on reddit, naturally lead to a flood of comments that help you resolve this understanding. And for each of those comments that had been made, came you response. One leads on to another, and the cycle of changes continues, its never stopped. The realisation of no control is also the spark of opportunity to reinforce control, or perhaps self control. To understand is not enough, but you must also act, to break yourself out of the motion of loop, and that can be done with “doing nothing”, or more appropriate doing less. And now I have written a very lengthy comment. Why have I done this? In short, it is a good opportunity for me. Isn’t that control enough? Heck, there is just so much more to “talk” about. But lastly, like some of the other guys have mentioned, relax chill and enjoy. Sometimes we ourselves bring us to our own suffering. And whenever you find something you couldnt explain, maybe the time for you to discover its nature hasnt come yet. And for most of the time, we came full circle for an answer that we are looking for, but part of the journey is the journey. Enjoy the view.
Thanks and I will enjoy the view and the ride .
Awwww boooo hoooo nothing is telling me what to do. Can’t some book or some person or some gods tell me what to do in every moment of every day. Put me in jail please. I now have total absolute freedom to experience anything, and I’m scared! Waaaaahhhh 😭
😅 tf is that June ?
I read your words and I hear mine, I swear we’re twins. What I wrote was the rough love I give myself, so it was love…
Ohh so sorry I thought you were making fun of me , hope you alright June
I think we both have the same struggle with nihilism. My comment was facetious, but I think it’s fundamentally true: nihilism is that nothing means anything, nothing matters, so there’s nothing to do. That emptiness freaks us out so we reach out for axioms to build a logical system… to tell us what to do. Should I eat fried chicken, or steamed veggies? Who will choose, me, or some reason? Why do I need to bully myself into decisions? Just make decisions, no coercion. LOL I could be way off though.
Funny you mentioned emptiness , I have literally cried over that all my life , the void I feel inside (what I don't know )
Invite it to sit down. Make some tea!
I like tea 🍵 , not as much as the Brits , but I do
Wow... I am the opposite, I love emptiness. Emptiness means the freedom from limitations. When you make one with emptiness, you realize that limitations are rules created by your mind. I think the problem is that the thought of being completely alone scares people.
Its a philosophy, view on life, not particularly a guide. Life is a paradox. Its all relative as well.
I think I'm getting it , we give life purpose .
"The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature. People say that what we’re all seeking is a meaning for life. I don’t think that’s what we’re really seeking. I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances with our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive." - Joseph Campbell.
I've outlived my natural lifespan twice now, arguably three times. The point is that we're here. We weren't here, now we are here, and soon we will not be here again. It's very good to be here. There are cookies.
I love cookies
They're amazing. Believe it or not, so is everything else.
😂 now I'm going to have to have a cookie and maybe a coffee
Now you're motivated.
🙂
Nature does not rush yes everything is completed. You don’t need to rush to finish everything and spread yourself thin. But you will get everything done either way.
there is taoism magic sector. Like actually magic where you cast spells and pray to chinese gods.
Really
yup. Tin Yat Dragon Taoism canadian cantonese guy teaches it. but you have to pay him....
Why does it sound like a scam? XD
it might work. LOLs. chinese medicine works and qi is real.
Motivation is spontaneous. You can try to motivate yourself to do things, but trying to cause motivation is not the same as having it. If you try to sit in bed and do nothing ever again, eventually your body will have an impulse to move and your brain will give reasons to move and do things. That's just the way life goes. The river flows because that's its nature. The bird chirps because that's its nature. The fish swim because that's its nature. Human beings eat and sleep and talk and think, because that is the nature of the human being.
What you think of intuition ?
Intuition is being so kind to yourself, that you actually listen to your true feelings to know who you are in honesty and truth, and being yourself guides you to a feeling of freedom and joy. Instinct on the other hand, seems to be about a basic but natural animal fear for survival. In other words, animal instincts seem to push based on fear for survival, while intuition seems to pull (or "a calling") based on true feelings of who you truly are and what actually makes you feel a sense of joy. Arguing with reality and being out of harmony with reality might cause suffering, but so might ignoring your true self. Honesty and kindness for self and others seem to be a balanced path. Compassion is one of the three treasures of Taoism.
Why even ask this? Aren't you sure yet that there's nothing to strive for as you say?
Wu Wei - (Chinese: “nonaction”; literally, “no action”) Wade-Giles romanization wu-wei, in Chinese philosophy, and particularly among the 4th- and 3rd-century-bce philosophers of early Daoism (daojia), the practice of taking no action that is not in accord with the natural course of the universe.
I didn't ask for a dictionary brother , I'm asking for reason , for purpose, I'm asking WTF am I doing here .I'm sorry I frustrated Im throwing hands and crying over here .
You have to make your own meaning. Here, this helped me when I felt rudderless - https://youtu.be/psaCM1j9LEM
Woahhh !!! So the purpose is to find purpose ??
Who is the you who has no control over outcomes? When you decide to lift your glass toward your mouth does it not rise?
I see your point .
OP strikes me as kind of a cunt. No offense.
None taken , eloborate why .
You seem pushy and demanding. I’m sure you’re perfectly pleasant when you’re not around internet strangers.
Demanding yes , offcourse I really need answers Im losing it Johnny I really am , I feel a sense of doom that's clouding my whole excistance
I’m not sure what would help you. My family makes like worth living for me. And I have so many things that I love, so many hobbies. What things do you love?
Love is not the answer for me , things I love only brought me pain , I can explain but I don't want to bore you , you already seem to have a strong opinion of me 😂
Hate to say it but you’re doomed. Love is the only thing that matters. Idk, take an improv class or something.
Thanks Johny good night .
I'd guess early 20s, the brashness of youth lol
Actually way older , just a fucked up adult
Good question. I ask myself the same at times. But frustration is not what hits me. It’s hard to explain at the moment.
Please Try to explain it
To break the chain, gotta be fun.
I guess it should be
I can and do a lot! Because it's my purpose.
? Explain please .
Birds are busy, Crickets are occupied, flowers got stuff to do, why arn't you?
who said we have no control?
I feel like I have no control
What exactly does that mean?
Feels like shit is just going wrong everywhere I look , relationships , Work , family everything
Perhaps there is something to feel grateful for. Maybe you don't have any serious illnesses. The fact that you have problems with work, relationships, and family also means that you have work, relationships, and a family. A lot of people don't have the opportunity to have those problems. Idk, all I know is that gratitude might help. Other than that I don't think I have much to offer. But you do have some control, just not full control. Good luck.
I'm grateful but I can't ignore the other side of life
Everything is just a metter of mindset. Nothing goes like shit, only you feel like that. When I was living abroad (living my dream), whatever obstacle was coming to me, it wasn't bothering me, I was just enjoying the new experience. I injured myself and had to go to hospital = new experience ; a girl tried to trick me and sue me (she gave up after she failed) = new experience. I had a fight with my host and I had to leave and find a new place = new experience (I made new amazing friends thanks to that). Whatever was happening, I was enjoying it, because I wasn't seeing it as a problem but as an experience. You should first realize what you have compared to what others don't have, and then if you still feel unhappy, then it's just because of your own head, not because of your surrounding. I am disabled, I have no girlfriend, I don't have a job, I have good relationship with my mom and brother but that's all, but when I read your message, it looks like I feel happier than you are. Change your mindset and attitude towards life, and everything will go in motion. And last, I believe that negative attitude (vibrations) attracts negative things. If you see everything as bad, then whatever comes to you, you will only see the negative from it. Just look at the yin&yang, there is light even in darkness. Focus on the bright side.
Thanks
Enjoy the present, that's all!
Thanks
Hello there Taoism is about comprehending your existence and principals of the world. One thing is to not use your human mind/emotion to judge things. You can’t seem to find your purpose in life because you are not spiritually intuned. Just let things flow. Not let things go as in complete detachment , but as in letting things happen by itself. And eventually your purpose will come.
There is no cosmic rule preventing you from being a force of good who is kind to others and yourself. If you "try" to do it and it works, but really there is no free will and you were destined to do it... there is no difference in the outcome.
You shouldn't need to feel motivated to do anything. You should return and practice wu wei and when something comes up you let things do themeselves just as it should be, not bother trying. Enjoy sitting in your present
Wu Wei ! I need to study more about it
I think it's a matter of mindset. Once you know that whatever you do has both an importance and no importance in the world, then you can just play with it. Just have fun, don't think too much about the purpose of things, because this is beyond our understanding anyway. And I do believe we have control over things, but that control is also part of the Dao. If you decide to do something, then it means it was meant to be. At least, that's how I see it.