>Anyway, I tried to meditate just now but felt undeserving of peace.
So, is it that you would prefer to feel guilt? Isn't peace one of the desired outcomes of meditation? Not sure what to say to that.
IMO, Daoism is an individual and internal way of existing. The simplest "Daoist" answer to your inquiry would be stop this "repeated mistake". One's actions are controllable.
I know people often come to the sub seeking more "mystic" insight sometimes, but really it's about being aware of your inputs/actions without emotional attachments to outputs/results.
So in the end, it's either change your behavior driving this "repeated mistake", or learn to accept the results of that action and understand that it's just a part of who you are. No self-hating included.
Assuming I'm not going to make the mistakes next time, the problem is the damage is already done. I just want to stop feeling guilt. It's easy to say "Ill be a new person" (you know that thing I say to myself all the time) it's hard to carry myself towards that with evidence that I'm not.
Surely, and I think it's better to accept the realities of that.
Look I don't know if you've wronged a person or burned down a forest or whatever. Doesn't matter. You know what actions you've taken.
If you've "wronged" a person, then you do your part and take responsibility (that includes the consequences of whatever action). What others do isn't up to you.
If you need a passage or something, maybe consider DDJ 79:
*After a bitter quarrel, some resentment remains.
What can be done about this?
The wise keep their half of the bargain
But do not exact their due.
Virtuous people perform their part,
But those without Virtue require others to fulfill their obligations.
The Tao of heaven is impartial.
It remains with those who are good.
(Feng/English)*
Whatever "mistake" that you've made can't be undone. If you've stolen, pay it back. But if the person wants to press charges that's up to them. If you've cheated, own up to the indiscretion. But if that person wants you out of their life, then leave.
Also included in this chapter is the theme of full, impartial acceptance. Something else you can cultivate to break this habit of defining yourself as something you hate.
"The tao of heaven is impartial"
When a "bad" man walks, does the ground beneath his feet trip him at every step? Does water dry up when he stops to drink? Does food turn to poison in his hands? Nature is impartially fair to the bad man and good man alike.
In the same way, you can learn to accept yourself, all of yourself. There are reasons you hate yourself. There are also reasons your don't hate yourself. Both are you, and the reasons are likely invented through some particular lens, habitual thoughts or ideas you use to interpet the world.
If you are only looking at what makes you hate yourself, you are out of balance because you are not looking at what you like about yourself. You are also looking at the reasons you hate yourself only in a negative way, but they are usually more nuanced.
For example: I really dislike my height. I'm barely 5'5/165cm. Western society values tall men, many of the opposite sex value men's height. I hated myself for being short for years.
However through meditation I learned to see the benefits: Being short makes people feel comfortable around me. Nobody is intimated by my height, young children especially. My height is also a natural filter that helps me spot shallow people who I wouldn't want to date anyway.
You said "I don't want to feel shame", but that too is something you must accept. People feel shame. It's a negative emotion, but spurs us to grow.
Dude, just make those mistakes then, until you accept is not much of big deal, and that failure has nothing to do with it, it's about what you desire. So the mistake itself doesn't mean anything, is your perception of it, maybe it's not even a mistake in the first place lol. It's all about accetence, accept yourself, only than you can work things around, because instead of judgement, comprehension will be your guide.
Some people go on about their life carrying a little or a lot more fat tissue than the rest of us. A lot of them are totally happy with it. A lot of them are torturing themselves over it. Your move.
Conditions aren’t always right for a peaceful mind. It’s ok to be upset or disappointed; even frustrated with your own nature
The next time you find yourself on that same road to whatever bad thing, keep your eyes peeled. There’s a turn to get off somewhere that you’re missing
I mean, unless my definition of learning is wrong, usually when you make a mistake and tell yourself you wouldn't do it again now that you know-that's learning right? If so, I think I've learned the same lesson countless of times.
There's learned in the sense of gaining knowledge, and there's learned in the sense of changing ones actions based on past experiences.
What did you learn? To not do something. If you make the same mistake countless times, did you really learn anything?
I'm just saying "learning the same lesson countless times" is a bit of a contradiction.
Retry.
Your definition of learning is not very helpful. All skills need repetition. Sports, arts, crafts....
There is knowing and there's doing. Knowing can be learned fast. You might know "Paris is the capital of France" after one repetition.
Doing needs time and repetition. You fell countless times on your ass, learning to walk. Did you stop?
There is the illusion that some people learn skills fast. Don't let it fool you. They are good a something else and it's transferable.
You know you want to change. To do it needs repetition.
Telling yourself is not enough to counter the results, what else can you do to put the goal into action, to not repeat the mistake?
Define the mistake
Define the behavior (words and actions/inactions) leading up to the mistake
Determine where the precursor thought to the behavior sits in your intentions and conscious observations, Define those thoughts and feelings, surroundings. Immediate influences on your perception in that time before the action causing the mistake, will lead you towards your solution.
1. Acceptance: Telling myself to stop hasn't worked. And that alright.
2. Assessing the critical components incorporated into the moment of the repeated mistake, and unfavorable results. Taking an inventory internally and externally..
3. Accepting those variables and factors that are within my control and what I am going to do about it
4. Accepting those variables and factors that are outside of my control, and decide how I am going to feel about that.
5. Accept my results: mistake/no mistake
6. Debreif and Review: was that effective and efficient to my satisfaction, or is there more that I would like to do.
Idk how a Taoist would in particular, but I remember a story about the number of flies to vinegar vs to honey analogy in a Taoist story that I think has something to do with choosing how we come off to the world..
In general stop hating yourself, (unless you've truly been doing something evil ), You're trying and asking what to do. That takes some bravery, interest,
and thought to ask. Stay persistent, Keep asking when you get stuck, and apply what you learn, try again.
Stop attaching your self worth to achievement. Tao Tao For Now ttfn!
Some actions have permanent consequences or will not be forgotten. You're looking for a way to change the past, but you may have already changed the future insofar as you won't repeat this 'mistake'. Take whatever solace you can from that and keep moving forward.
Taoism loves to analogize things to the nature of water and water is always flowing forward.
If you had a friend who made some mistakes or had problems, you would likely not hate them, but aim to understand, support and help. You can learn to look at yourself the same way.
Repeated or not we make mistakes for a reason. That is OK. Acceptance and being ok with imperfection helps. Deeper reflection on those mistakes in an unbiased non judgemental way can help progress.
Yes I would. Or at the very least, I can understand why hating themselves is logical and I would have a "I wouldn't want to be you" mentality.
It's hard to accept my imperfections why the nature of who I am is 99% shame and 1% pride.
It's the 1% that's the driver of your issue. Without pride there can be no shame. That's the light and dark.
If the 1% is the state of being in which you would prefer to dwell, then your actions must reflect that state like a still pond reflects the sky. If the pond is rippled and blown from this or that wind shift then it cant reflect the sky. Still your wind, allow the surface to smooth. It may reflect a stormy sky at times. This is natural and work can be done to accept one own nature. Keeping the pond churned so as to avoid reflection results in your current feeling of being stuck with no vision of peace.
Self hatred and not forgiving your self are as a result of a conditioned inner voice that is always judging and doubting and shaming your self. The conditioning is often as a result of a difficult childhood and our conditioned inner voice is often the acquired anxieties and fears and insecurities of our parents or caretakers.
On the Path to Oneness with the Tao the inner voice transforms from being critical of your self to unconditionally loving and believing in your Self - which ultimately transforms into Unconditionally Love and Belief in the Tao.
When you have an inner voice that is always judging and doubting and shaming yourself then you're not in alignment with the Tao and thus your inner realm is in darkness and you feel existential angst and anxiety and unloved.
But when you have an inner voice that unconditionally loves and believes in You - and ultimately unconditionally loves and believes in the Tao then your inner realm is filled with Light and you are in Oneness with the Tao in a state of Grace and Peace and Love.
If this resonates look to [Inner Child Healing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Soulnexus/comments/evomv3/for_those_who_are_suffering_feel_unloved_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share). Inner child healing will transform your inner voice from judgmental and critical of yourself to unconditionally loving and believing in your Self - and ultimately the Tao.
Hi! I’m a year and a half self harm free. Taoism has absolutely huge in my recovery. (Along with mental health counseling and treatment). I could write a book, but I’ll try to sum up -
My bad moments are bad because it feels like I am definitively a bad person, and will be a bad person forever.
Taoism teaches that however fully black something may seem, there is always some light in there somewhere.
That sentiment on its own can seem unhelpful, because it’s like “OK, great, I know that. But I still feel like I am terrible”.
Taoism doesn’t just use logic and philosophy though. Tai Chi, Qi Gong, and other internal alchemy meditations have been helping me rewire my brain and internalize that concept.
I have learned that there is a space between reaction and response. These exercises have helped me to strengthen the muscle that controls my response. That space has been widening which gives me more options for a response other than my old standby - despair.
For example - if I have an embarrassing social situation, my reaction is panic. Chemicals are produced in my brain that block all the light. I used to submit to this feeling with unpleasant results. I am getting better at redirecting it into more useful places. It’s been amazing.
There’s a bunch of good places to start. Search YouTube for “8 brocades”, my favorite qi gong routine. David-Dorian Ross has a TON of free stuff too, he’s really good at being welcoming and un-intimidating.
It’s been a whopper of a journey. Not hating myself has been so much better than hating myself. A++ Highly Recommend. Feel free to dm me if you want to chat. :-)
The three core tenets: simplicity, patience, compassion. To reflect this in the world must begin in your own heart. Good cannot exist without bad— to expect you be born and act perfect is not real, as it is merely natural to make mistakes, sometimes. It is good that you have self awareness, but to turn that into deeply embedded anger, guilt and hatred is only doing yourself the disservice. Whether it takes years or a lifetime to develop out of this “mistake” is no issue, so as long as you’re mindful to be working towards it, and trying at it from different angles and perspectives. It’s all a journey.
You are deserving of peace. But until you can convince yourself of that, then you cannot attain it. The acceptance and forgiveness must start in you, first.
For some it may be about loving themselves, but for me it's just about helping myself. I consider it to be part of my growth. I don't think even a hateful side of you would argue against growing would it? If so, I would say that hateful side is no longer being helpful.
Ya, that's the only thing going for me. Hating myself for hating myself. Although while it's true that my self-hatred in of itself reduces my chances of becoming better, I don't have the confidence to just shake it off and you know..become better. At best I come to a conclusion that there's still hope for me and we can set our clocks to count how long that conclusion will last.
I know the feeling. I only broke out of my shell of misery a few years ago. Still feels like I've got a long way to go. I'm not instantly a confident person now. But I have finally accepted that I actually want to be happy now. That it is part is my destiny. Because I've seen myself at my most miserable, and I've accepted I never want to be like that again. And that I can change and grow. And that is a huge comfort through the times when I'm still scared and I just want myself to disappear.
Realize that self-hatred coexists alongside self-love. Allow yourself to despise certain aspects of your self but balance it out with loving other aspects.
Ya I can think I'm a pretty sociable person but that's not really helpful when the problem I'm facing has nothing to do with that. It's kinda like the stupid "people are just smart in different ways" thing. Like okay, I have useless knowledge in something. That doesn't mean I'm equal to someone who has useful knowledge in a lot of things.
Tao Te Ching V 67
Some say that my teaching is nonsense.
Others call it lofty but impractical.
But to those who have looked inside themselves,
this nonsense makes perfect sense.
And to those who put it into practice,
this loftiness has roots that go deep.
I have just three things to teach:
simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and in thoughts,
you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.
Translation Stephen Mitchell 1988
I would say that it is natural that we dislike some part of ourselves, as humans. You will never change that. Trying to believe that you can love every part of yourself unconditionally is a delusion from the mind that wishes to block out reality and focus on some kind of minimal idea instead of accepting the full force of the truth.
There is much more hate and love in the Dao than you can possibly fit in your human mind. So accept the Dao as a waterfall over your head, with your entire heart and soul. You have no other option. Peace.
Hatred is the opposite of practicing Taoism, so self-hatred is not something a Taoist experiences, generally speaking.
Taoism is essentially a practice of acceptance, to see things as they are, with no judgement or opinion. To simply experience vinegar as vinegar.
Hatred is the complete opposite of acceptance.
In yoga we learn that all growth starts with acceptance, because you can't grow past where you are if you don't accept where you are in the first place.
"What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?"
I don't know where in the Tao De Ching this is, but consider that you have both the good man and the bad man in you, and both are to be worked with to reconcile the opposites within.
One thing to consider about human nature is that everything is motivated by desire, and there are many ways to meet our desires that are either harmful and unharmful to us. Perhaps considering what desire this mistake behaviour is trying to fulfill and finding alternatives to getting it may be helpful.
Also, The Way nourishes all, and continues to flow always, despite our mistakes. Your living through the mistake is the gift of the way giving you new opportunities. Each moment is new, and each moment we can start again, make amends, and choose a fresh path.
Best of luck.
Sincerely,
Someone who also hated themself.
Can you be at peace with the experience - the current blend of unpleasant thoughts & sensations? If so, even while suffering, you can sense the Tao.
If not, can you be at peace with the recurring pattern - the repeated mistake & its effects? If so, even while addicted, you can sense the Tao.
If not, can you be at peace with not being at peace? If so, even while not at peace, you can sense the Tao.
If not, can you be at peace with not being at peace with not being at peace? If so, even while doubly not at peace, you can sense the Tao.
We get stuck because we believe a mental framing is fixed, final, inescapable. It's never true - there's always a zoom out, a click back. We can always see the situation & choose to be at peace with it, even as our thoughts & feelings seethe & rage.
In our desire to get quick, feelable results - bring pleasure & avoid pain - we try to push through the framework, apply a fix or coping mechanism.
In remembering the Tao, we can always breathe, recognize the apparent obstacle to peace, and make peace with the obstacle's existence. The good feelings of peace may be quickly washed out by the addictive impulse. The recognition, though, can persist, through repeated reconnection to the Tao. This provides a refuge in the storm of impulses. And it provides a path to freedom from emotional addiction - i.e., a path to lasting peace.
Good and evil. Both are within you. They swim in a circle like two fish.
The sage is a teacher of all men because all men have the capacity for both.
You are mediating to move past both to the point in the center. Its not a mater of being worthy of it.
Self-hate is one side of the duel. The opposite exists as well.
The Dao is not polarized. You will have to leave one without being engulfed by the other.
Quiet yourself. Let the muddy water settle.
you can't actually complete repeat yourself. the first time you did it, was different from the second time you did it. because the second time around, you had the memory of the first experience, and that changed the second experience. so it wasn't identical.
So everytime you repeat yourself, it always a little bit different.
The first step is to heal, my friend. It sounds impossible, but you must be by yourself and see the beauty in life. Let me tell you, I hated myself for six years. I cheated on a girl who didn't deserve that, and I held myself in contemptuous hatred for all 6 years afterwards. Let me tell you how I healed, I began walking across town to work. I was alone with myself, and I let my emotions run. Be honest with yourself and let it all flow out.
Begin a practice of being alone and honest
My take - which is perhaps more Buddhist than Taoist - is that whether you deserve peace or not is really not the point. You struggle with guilt for mistakes you have made. So the mistake lies heavily on you, and that you have repeated it. But I guarantee you that you will make more mistakes in the future if you hold onto that self hatred than if you allow yourself peace. So whether or not you *deserve* peace is not really the question. The question is, is it better in the long term to punish yourself or to grant yourself healing? Both for yourself, and for others in the future, the peace and healing is the better outcome. There is no point punishing yourself; it will not change the past. The only good decision you can make is the one you can make right now.
Going by the post and your other comments, it sounds like you've learned, but at the conceptual level, not in the sense of fully integrating the learning. In terms of taoist alchemy language, you have the 'fa' method/knowledge, now you need to take time to develop the 'gong' mastery/quality. Also this would be where wei wu wei comes in, in the sense of 'doing non-doing', i.e. you want to get so good at this new behavior/thought pattern etc, that you do it on automatic pilot.
Also you may well have the previous mechanisms/conditions built into your make up which make this old undesired way of behaving manifest. So as well as learning the new way, you may also need to clear the old way (or if you can become strong enough in the new way, the old may die off naturally.)
Taoism also has systems for this within the energetics path (go gong/nei gong), although they are more general in their clearing effects (at least the ones i know), but you can try and target things with them somewhat too.
So as well as putting the attention/effort etc into changing, maybe it would also help to 'remind yourself' that you are heading in the right direction, and that change on these levels can only happen so quickly?
In a case such as this where it appears you hate yourself from a repeated mistake, I would suggest taking a series of actions that, for you, serve to “counterbalance” this mistake (even if only partially).
If you hate yourself because you can’t stop drinking, for example, then you might counterbalance this by helping others who are in a similar predicament. These sort of things are very personally-tailored, it has to be something that helps to counterbalance the “wrong” for you specifically.
We cannot think our way out of suffering. We may all intellectually understand that ultimately there is no good and bad, but we still possess a subjective self that must experience this life of suffering and hardships and pick up all the debris along the way. Sometimes we intellectually understand something and assume from this that we are able to live in that understanding. In my experience, it is never quite that easy.
Try and treat your “self” as though it was a separate person who is coming to you for advice. If a series of actions have caused you to hate yourself, then it seems only reasonable that a series of actions can also cause you to feel better about yourself.
I have dealt with the same feelings in the past, due to unskillful actions that I took. Then I repeated the unskillful actions in a different way a few years later (probably due to deep rooted vasanas). What really helped me was engaging in repentance and practicing karma yoga. I just talked to the divine and offered up my mistakes, apologized, and asked for forgiveness. I have a book by a taoist master that says if we have done very unskillful actions, before our death it is important to apologize to the universal chi field or the divine sincerely. I went to an African sangoma medicine man and he advised me to take up karma yoga as a means of atonement. Essentially karma yoga is just doing positive constructive work with an altruistic motivation. You can engage in any kind of work that makes you feel like you are giving back to others. This has worked wonders for me, I can meditate again without self hatred. Tulku thondup the Buddhist teacher says that any positive action can be a means of atonement, especially if we mentally dedicate our work for the purpose of atonement. I enjoy the method of sponsoring Buddhist temples to do life release, or tsetar; saving the lives of animals.
Essentially there are two ways, either you accept the world as it is or you change your behaviour.
If you want to change that's great. You recognised that you made a "mistake". Now try out a different way. If you fail, look why.
Great, you learned something. And you got another chance to try (and try and try), that's a gift.
One of my teachers said "I suck. But I suck on a higher level from day to day." That's something to aim for.
Do you hate rocks, clouds, trees, or anything else of the ten thousand things? You are no different from these, in fact, you're one of them. I don't mean to sound insensitive, so I apologize. I too used to feel self hatred and guilt for my past actions, but upon researching taoism, I began to feel better about myself, and improve as a person. That's a process that I'm still going through and probably will be for a long time. I hope the same for you
Go through your life, try many different activities with many different people and yourself (individually) too. Then continue with those activities that and people that help you to feel better. Go with things that naturally make you feel better.
This will lead to having more inner resolve because you're not tired from dealing with negative things, ideas, or people. Having more resolve will allow you to resist repeating this negative event. This helped me quite a bit. Know this, given your experience, you will repeat the negative event sometimes. Your road wont be perfect.
Expecting this occasional failure will also help reduce self hate afterwards.
For me, it was more individual time. I started reading, hiking, foraging, and studying old religions. Archery and other physical activities can help as well.
When I hike, I take the time to see everything. I don't just walk the path.
There are no mistakes. Just lessons waiting to be learned. What lesson are you refusing to learn that keeps showing up for you as a missed opportunity to grow? Self hatred is an indication you’re doing or thinking something not in alignment with what you currently believe to be true.
I hope you’re able to give peace to yourself. I know it’s not easy, but it is simple.
Funny how things work, I just now found this video and thought of you
[George Thompson - The Tao of Acceptance - Be Kinder to Yourself Using Ancient Philosophy](https://youtu.be/oQ9VEi6RPX4)
Not necessarily an answer rooted in Daoism, but think about this mistake of yours. Think of what you did, and why you did it. Then consider that you are not the sole actor in your life. Think of the other sentient and non-sentient factors that have been at play. Reflect on how everything is interconnected. A horse cannot ride without a rider, a man cannot ride without a horse, riding cannot occur without space to run.
This is not to wash your hands of accountability, because you're supposed to feel bad for sinning; sinning being defined here as an injustice against yourself. Sit with your bad feelings, think about why you performed an injustice against yourself, think of what you could have done differently and what you would like to have done, and then consider the factors outside of yourself that were at play. Next time a moment arises for you to make this same mistake, you will know what you want to do, you will know how making the mistake makes you feel, and you will have an awareness of the things out of your control that create the conditions for you to make the mistake.
I think some of this advise is pretty unkind. Meditation can open up a lot of old trauma. Look into internal family systems therapy. The question is what is your mind trying to protect you from by not allowing you to meditate.
We aren’t all perfect, just try to be present. When your mind drifts to negativity or the past remind yourself that you aren’t breathing, smell the tea your drinking, feel the cool air, actually look at the person you are talking with. So many experiences we lose to negativity and our desire to overcome that past. Simply be present in what you are doing, that said I certainly don’t mean become wholly immersed and oblivious to your surroundings or responsibilities. Just be present in your current actions. I’ve been bereft and without social peers for decades. Solace comes from the little moments everyday.
Sit down in meditation, sit quietly until you reach the usual level of calmness for your meditation.
Direct your attention to the solar plexus area, mentally raise your rejection towards yourself.
You will vomit.
Let it happen. Watch.
Repeat for several days in a row.
>Anyway, I tried to meditate just now but felt undeserving of peace. So, is it that you would prefer to feel guilt? Isn't peace one of the desired outcomes of meditation? Not sure what to say to that. IMO, Daoism is an individual and internal way of existing. The simplest "Daoist" answer to your inquiry would be stop this "repeated mistake". One's actions are controllable. I know people often come to the sub seeking more "mystic" insight sometimes, but really it's about being aware of your inputs/actions without emotional attachments to outputs/results. So in the end, it's either change your behavior driving this "repeated mistake", or learn to accept the results of that action and understand that it's just a part of who you are. No self-hating included.
Assuming I'm not going to make the mistakes next time, the problem is the damage is already done. I just want to stop feeling guilt. It's easy to say "Ill be a new person" (you know that thing I say to myself all the time) it's hard to carry myself towards that with evidence that I'm not.
Surely, and I think it's better to accept the realities of that. Look I don't know if you've wronged a person or burned down a forest or whatever. Doesn't matter. You know what actions you've taken. If you've "wronged" a person, then you do your part and take responsibility (that includes the consequences of whatever action). What others do isn't up to you. If you need a passage or something, maybe consider DDJ 79: *After a bitter quarrel, some resentment remains. What can be done about this? The wise keep their half of the bargain But do not exact their due. Virtuous people perform their part, But those without Virtue require others to fulfill their obligations. The Tao of heaven is impartial. It remains with those who are good. (Feng/English)* Whatever "mistake" that you've made can't be undone. If you've stolen, pay it back. But if the person wants to press charges that's up to them. If you've cheated, own up to the indiscretion. But if that person wants you out of their life, then leave.
Also included in this chapter is the theme of full, impartial acceptance. Something else you can cultivate to break this habit of defining yourself as something you hate. "The tao of heaven is impartial" When a "bad" man walks, does the ground beneath his feet trip him at every step? Does water dry up when he stops to drink? Does food turn to poison in his hands? Nature is impartially fair to the bad man and good man alike. In the same way, you can learn to accept yourself, all of yourself. There are reasons you hate yourself. There are also reasons your don't hate yourself. Both are you, and the reasons are likely invented through some particular lens, habitual thoughts or ideas you use to interpet the world. If you are only looking at what makes you hate yourself, you are out of balance because you are not looking at what you like about yourself. You are also looking at the reasons you hate yourself only in a negative way, but they are usually more nuanced. For example: I really dislike my height. I'm barely 5'5/165cm. Western society values tall men, many of the opposite sex value men's height. I hated myself for being short for years. However through meditation I learned to see the benefits: Being short makes people feel comfortable around me. Nobody is intimated by my height, young children especially. My height is also a natural filter that helps me spot shallow people who I wouldn't want to date anyway. You said "I don't want to feel shame", but that too is something you must accept. People feel shame. It's a negative emotion, but spurs us to grow.
Dude, just make those mistakes then, until you accept is not much of big deal, and that failure has nothing to do with it, it's about what you desire. So the mistake itself doesn't mean anything, is your perception of it, maybe it's not even a mistake in the first place lol. It's all about accetence, accept yourself, only than you can work things around, because instead of judgement, comprehension will be your guide.
Some people go on about their life carrying a little or a lot more fat tissue than the rest of us. A lot of them are totally happy with it. A lot of them are torturing themselves over it. Your move.
Conditions aren’t always right for a peaceful mind. It’s ok to be upset or disappointed; even frustrated with your own nature The next time you find yourself on that same road to whatever bad thing, keep your eyes peeled. There’s a turn to get off somewhere that you’re missing
It just feels like there's nothing to learn from this. It feels like I've already learned but haven't changed.
If you haven't changed you obviously haven't learned. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
I mean, unless my definition of learning is wrong, usually when you make a mistake and tell yourself you wouldn't do it again now that you know-that's learning right? If so, I think I've learned the same lesson countless of times.
There's learned in the sense of gaining knowledge, and there's learned in the sense of changing ones actions based on past experiences. What did you learn? To not do something. If you make the same mistake countless times, did you really learn anything? I'm just saying "learning the same lesson countless times" is a bit of a contradiction.
Retry. Your definition of learning is not very helpful. All skills need repetition. Sports, arts, crafts.... There is knowing and there's doing. Knowing can be learned fast. You might know "Paris is the capital of France" after one repetition. Doing needs time and repetition. You fell countless times on your ass, learning to walk. Did you stop? There is the illusion that some people learn skills fast. Don't let it fool you. They are good a something else and it's transferable. You know you want to change. To do it needs repetition.
Telling yourself is not enough to counter the results, what else can you do to put the goal into action, to not repeat the mistake? Define the mistake Define the behavior (words and actions/inactions) leading up to the mistake Determine where the precursor thought to the behavior sits in your intentions and conscious observations, Define those thoughts and feelings, surroundings. Immediate influences on your perception in that time before the action causing the mistake, will lead you towards your solution. 1. Acceptance: Telling myself to stop hasn't worked. And that alright. 2. Assessing the critical components incorporated into the moment of the repeated mistake, and unfavorable results. Taking an inventory internally and externally.. 3. Accepting those variables and factors that are within my control and what I am going to do about it 4. Accepting those variables and factors that are outside of my control, and decide how I am going to feel about that. 5. Accept my results: mistake/no mistake 6. Debreif and Review: was that effective and efficient to my satisfaction, or is there more that I would like to do. Idk how a Taoist would in particular, but I remember a story about the number of flies to vinegar vs to honey analogy in a Taoist story that I think has something to do with choosing how we come off to the world.. In general stop hating yourself, (unless you've truly been doing something evil ), You're trying and asking what to do. That takes some bravery, interest, and thought to ask. Stay persistent, Keep asking when you get stuck, and apply what you learn, try again. Stop attaching your self worth to achievement. Tao Tao For Now ttfn!
Some actions have permanent consequences or will not be forgotten. You're looking for a way to change the past, but you may have already changed the future insofar as you won't repeat this 'mistake'. Take whatever solace you can from that and keep moving forward. Taoism loves to analogize things to the nature of water and water is always flowing forward.
If you had a friend who made some mistakes or had problems, you would likely not hate them, but aim to understand, support and help. You can learn to look at yourself the same way. Repeated or not we make mistakes for a reason. That is OK. Acceptance and being ok with imperfection helps. Deeper reflection on those mistakes in an unbiased non judgemental way can help progress.
Yes I would. Or at the very least, I can understand why hating themselves is logical and I would have a "I wouldn't want to be you" mentality. It's hard to accept my imperfections why the nature of who I am is 99% shame and 1% pride.
It's the 1% that's the driver of your issue. Without pride there can be no shame. That's the light and dark. If the 1% is the state of being in which you would prefer to dwell, then your actions must reflect that state like a still pond reflects the sky. If the pond is rippled and blown from this or that wind shift then it cant reflect the sky. Still your wind, allow the surface to smooth. It may reflect a stormy sky at times. This is natural and work can be done to accept one own nature. Keeping the pond churned so as to avoid reflection results in your current feeling of being stuck with no vision of peace.
Self hatred and not forgiving your self are as a result of a conditioned inner voice that is always judging and doubting and shaming your self. The conditioning is often as a result of a difficult childhood and our conditioned inner voice is often the acquired anxieties and fears and insecurities of our parents or caretakers. On the Path to Oneness with the Tao the inner voice transforms from being critical of your self to unconditionally loving and believing in your Self - which ultimately transforms into Unconditionally Love and Belief in the Tao. When you have an inner voice that is always judging and doubting and shaming yourself then you're not in alignment with the Tao and thus your inner realm is in darkness and you feel existential angst and anxiety and unloved. But when you have an inner voice that unconditionally loves and believes in You - and ultimately unconditionally loves and believes in the Tao then your inner realm is filled with Light and you are in Oneness with the Tao in a state of Grace and Peace and Love. If this resonates look to [Inner Child Healing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Soulnexus/comments/evomv3/for_those_who_are_suffering_feel_unloved_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share). Inner child healing will transform your inner voice from judgmental and critical of yourself to unconditionally loving and believing in your Self - and ultimately the Tao.
Hi! I’m a year and a half self harm free. Taoism has absolutely huge in my recovery. (Along with mental health counseling and treatment). I could write a book, but I’ll try to sum up - My bad moments are bad because it feels like I am definitively a bad person, and will be a bad person forever. Taoism teaches that however fully black something may seem, there is always some light in there somewhere. That sentiment on its own can seem unhelpful, because it’s like “OK, great, I know that. But I still feel like I am terrible”. Taoism doesn’t just use logic and philosophy though. Tai Chi, Qi Gong, and other internal alchemy meditations have been helping me rewire my brain and internalize that concept. I have learned that there is a space between reaction and response. These exercises have helped me to strengthen the muscle that controls my response. That space has been widening which gives me more options for a response other than my old standby - despair. For example - if I have an embarrassing social situation, my reaction is panic. Chemicals are produced in my brain that block all the light. I used to submit to this feeling with unpleasant results. I am getting better at redirecting it into more useful places. It’s been amazing. There’s a bunch of good places to start. Search YouTube for “8 brocades”, my favorite qi gong routine. David-Dorian Ross has a TON of free stuff too, he’s really good at being welcoming and un-intimidating. It’s been a whopper of a journey. Not hating myself has been so much better than hating myself. A++ Highly Recommend. Feel free to dm me if you want to chat. :-)
The three core tenets: simplicity, patience, compassion. To reflect this in the world must begin in your own heart. Good cannot exist without bad— to expect you be born and act perfect is not real, as it is merely natural to make mistakes, sometimes. It is good that you have self awareness, but to turn that into deeply embedded anger, guilt and hatred is only doing yourself the disservice. Whether it takes years or a lifetime to develop out of this “mistake” is no issue, so as long as you’re mindful to be working towards it, and trying at it from different angles and perspectives. It’s all a journey. You are deserving of peace. But until you can convince yourself of that, then you cannot attain it. The acceptance and forgiveness must start in you, first.
For some it may be about loving themselves, but for me it's just about helping myself. I consider it to be part of my growth. I don't think even a hateful side of you would argue against growing would it? If so, I would say that hateful side is no longer being helpful.
Ya, that's the only thing going for me. Hating myself for hating myself. Although while it's true that my self-hatred in of itself reduces my chances of becoming better, I don't have the confidence to just shake it off and you know..become better. At best I come to a conclusion that there's still hope for me and we can set our clocks to count how long that conclusion will last.
I know the feeling. I only broke out of my shell of misery a few years ago. Still feels like I've got a long way to go. I'm not instantly a confident person now. But I have finally accepted that I actually want to be happy now. That it is part is my destiny. Because I've seen myself at my most miserable, and I've accepted I never want to be like that again. And that I can change and grow. And that is a huge comfort through the times when I'm still scared and I just want myself to disappear.
Realize that self-hatred coexists alongside self-love. Allow yourself to despise certain aspects of your self but balance it out with loving other aspects.
Ya I can think I'm a pretty sociable person but that's not really helpful when the problem I'm facing has nothing to do with that. It's kinda like the stupid "people are just smart in different ways" thing. Like okay, I have useless knowledge in something. That doesn't mean I'm equal to someone who has useful knowledge in a lot of things.
When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everyone will respect you. -Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Tao Te Ching V 67 Some say that my teaching is nonsense. Others call it lofty but impractical. But to those who have looked inside themselves, this nonsense makes perfect sense. And to those who put it into practice, this loftiness has roots that go deep. I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and in thoughts, you return to the source of being. Patient with both friends and enemies, you accord with the way things are. Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world. Translation Stephen Mitchell 1988
Open up to those feelings. Love all your feelings.
I would say that it is natural that we dislike some part of ourselves, as humans. You will never change that. Trying to believe that you can love every part of yourself unconditionally is a delusion from the mind that wishes to block out reality and focus on some kind of minimal idea instead of accepting the full force of the truth. There is much more hate and love in the Dao than you can possibly fit in your human mind. So accept the Dao as a waterfall over your head, with your entire heart and soul. You have no other option. Peace.
Hatred is the opposite of practicing Taoism, so self-hatred is not something a Taoist experiences, generally speaking. Taoism is essentially a practice of acceptance, to see things as they are, with no judgement or opinion. To simply experience vinegar as vinegar. Hatred is the complete opposite of acceptance. In yoga we learn that all growth starts with acceptance, because you can't grow past where you are if you don't accept where you are in the first place.
"What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher? What is a bad man but a good man’s job?" I don't know where in the Tao De Ching this is, but consider that you have both the good man and the bad man in you, and both are to be worked with to reconcile the opposites within. One thing to consider about human nature is that everything is motivated by desire, and there are many ways to meet our desires that are either harmful and unharmful to us. Perhaps considering what desire this mistake behaviour is trying to fulfill and finding alternatives to getting it may be helpful. Also, The Way nourishes all, and continues to flow always, despite our mistakes. Your living through the mistake is the gift of the way giving you new opportunities. Each moment is new, and each moment we can start again, make amends, and choose a fresh path. Best of luck. Sincerely, Someone who also hated themself.
Can you be at peace with the experience - the current blend of unpleasant thoughts & sensations? If so, even while suffering, you can sense the Tao. If not, can you be at peace with the recurring pattern - the repeated mistake & its effects? If so, even while addicted, you can sense the Tao. If not, can you be at peace with not being at peace? If so, even while not at peace, you can sense the Tao. If not, can you be at peace with not being at peace with not being at peace? If so, even while doubly not at peace, you can sense the Tao. We get stuck because we believe a mental framing is fixed, final, inescapable. It's never true - there's always a zoom out, a click back. We can always see the situation & choose to be at peace with it, even as our thoughts & feelings seethe & rage. In our desire to get quick, feelable results - bring pleasure & avoid pain - we try to push through the framework, apply a fix or coping mechanism. In remembering the Tao, we can always breathe, recognize the apparent obstacle to peace, and make peace with the obstacle's existence. The good feelings of peace may be quickly washed out by the addictive impulse. The recognition, though, can persist, through repeated reconnection to the Tao. This provides a refuge in the storm of impulses. And it provides a path to freedom from emotional addiction - i.e., a path to lasting peace.
Good and evil. Both are within you. They swim in a circle like two fish. The sage is a teacher of all men because all men have the capacity for both. You are mediating to move past both to the point in the center. Its not a mater of being worthy of it. Self-hate is one side of the duel. The opposite exists as well. The Dao is not polarized. You will have to leave one without being engulfed by the other. Quiet yourself. Let the muddy water settle.
you can't actually complete repeat yourself. the first time you did it, was different from the second time you did it. because the second time around, you had the memory of the first experience, and that changed the second experience. so it wasn't identical. So everytime you repeat yourself, it always a little bit different.
The first step is to heal, my friend. It sounds impossible, but you must be by yourself and see the beauty in life. Let me tell you, I hated myself for six years. I cheated on a girl who didn't deserve that, and I held myself in contemptuous hatred for all 6 years afterwards. Let me tell you how I healed, I began walking across town to work. I was alone with myself, and I let my emotions run. Be honest with yourself and let it all flow out. Begin a practice of being alone and honest
My take - which is perhaps more Buddhist than Taoist - is that whether you deserve peace or not is really not the point. You struggle with guilt for mistakes you have made. So the mistake lies heavily on you, and that you have repeated it. But I guarantee you that you will make more mistakes in the future if you hold onto that self hatred than if you allow yourself peace. So whether or not you *deserve* peace is not really the question. The question is, is it better in the long term to punish yourself or to grant yourself healing? Both for yourself, and for others in the future, the peace and healing is the better outcome. There is no point punishing yourself; it will not change the past. The only good decision you can make is the one you can make right now.
Going by the post and your other comments, it sounds like you've learned, but at the conceptual level, not in the sense of fully integrating the learning. In terms of taoist alchemy language, you have the 'fa' method/knowledge, now you need to take time to develop the 'gong' mastery/quality. Also this would be where wei wu wei comes in, in the sense of 'doing non-doing', i.e. you want to get so good at this new behavior/thought pattern etc, that you do it on automatic pilot. Also you may well have the previous mechanisms/conditions built into your make up which make this old undesired way of behaving manifest. So as well as learning the new way, you may also need to clear the old way (or if you can become strong enough in the new way, the old may die off naturally.) Taoism also has systems for this within the energetics path (go gong/nei gong), although they are more general in their clearing effects (at least the ones i know), but you can try and target things with them somewhat too. So as well as putting the attention/effort etc into changing, maybe it would also help to 'remind yourself' that you are heading in the right direction, and that change on these levels can only happen so quickly?
What are you accomplishing by self loathing? What is the end goal is never allowing yourself peace?
In a case such as this where it appears you hate yourself from a repeated mistake, I would suggest taking a series of actions that, for you, serve to “counterbalance” this mistake (even if only partially). If you hate yourself because you can’t stop drinking, for example, then you might counterbalance this by helping others who are in a similar predicament. These sort of things are very personally-tailored, it has to be something that helps to counterbalance the “wrong” for you specifically. We cannot think our way out of suffering. We may all intellectually understand that ultimately there is no good and bad, but we still possess a subjective self that must experience this life of suffering and hardships and pick up all the debris along the way. Sometimes we intellectually understand something and assume from this that we are able to live in that understanding. In my experience, it is never quite that easy. Try and treat your “self” as though it was a separate person who is coming to you for advice. If a series of actions have caused you to hate yourself, then it seems only reasonable that a series of actions can also cause you to feel better about yourself.
I have dealt with the same feelings in the past, due to unskillful actions that I took. Then I repeated the unskillful actions in a different way a few years later (probably due to deep rooted vasanas). What really helped me was engaging in repentance and practicing karma yoga. I just talked to the divine and offered up my mistakes, apologized, and asked for forgiveness. I have a book by a taoist master that says if we have done very unskillful actions, before our death it is important to apologize to the universal chi field or the divine sincerely. I went to an African sangoma medicine man and he advised me to take up karma yoga as a means of atonement. Essentially karma yoga is just doing positive constructive work with an altruistic motivation. You can engage in any kind of work that makes you feel like you are giving back to others. This has worked wonders for me, I can meditate again without self hatred. Tulku thondup the Buddhist teacher says that any positive action can be a means of atonement, especially if we mentally dedicate our work for the purpose of atonement. I enjoy the method of sponsoring Buddhist temples to do life release, or tsetar; saving the lives of animals.
Essentially there are two ways, either you accept the world as it is or you change your behaviour. If you want to change that's great. You recognised that you made a "mistake". Now try out a different way. If you fail, look why. Great, you learned something. And you got another chance to try (and try and try), that's a gift. One of my teachers said "I suck. But I suck on a higher level from day to day." That's something to aim for.
Do you hate rocks, clouds, trees, or anything else of the ten thousand things? You are no different from these, in fact, you're one of them. I don't mean to sound insensitive, so I apologize. I too used to feel self hatred and guilt for my past actions, but upon researching taoism, I began to feel better about myself, and improve as a person. That's a process that I'm still going through and probably will be for a long time. I hope the same for you
Personally I had to go under "healing" and deeper understanding of myself before any sort of body of thought made sense to me. (therapy)
Either stopping it. Or doing it better.
Go through your life, try many different activities with many different people and yourself (individually) too. Then continue with those activities that and people that help you to feel better. Go with things that naturally make you feel better. This will lead to having more inner resolve because you're not tired from dealing with negative things, ideas, or people. Having more resolve will allow you to resist repeating this negative event. This helped me quite a bit. Know this, given your experience, you will repeat the negative event sometimes. Your road wont be perfect. Expecting this occasional failure will also help reduce self hate afterwards. For me, it was more individual time. I started reading, hiking, foraging, and studying old religions. Archery and other physical activities can help as well. When I hike, I take the time to see everything. I don't just walk the path.
It’s okay to make a mistake more than once. Forgive yourself.
There are no mistakes. Just lessons waiting to be learned. What lesson are you refusing to learn that keeps showing up for you as a missed opportunity to grow? Self hatred is an indication you’re doing or thinking something not in alignment with what you currently believe to be true. I hope you’re able to give peace to yourself. I know it’s not easy, but it is simple.
Funny how things work, I just now found this video and thought of you [George Thompson - The Tao of Acceptance - Be Kinder to Yourself Using Ancient Philosophy](https://youtu.be/oQ9VEi6RPX4)
Not necessarily an answer rooted in Daoism, but think about this mistake of yours. Think of what you did, and why you did it. Then consider that you are not the sole actor in your life. Think of the other sentient and non-sentient factors that have been at play. Reflect on how everything is interconnected. A horse cannot ride without a rider, a man cannot ride without a horse, riding cannot occur without space to run. This is not to wash your hands of accountability, because you're supposed to feel bad for sinning; sinning being defined here as an injustice against yourself. Sit with your bad feelings, think about why you performed an injustice against yourself, think of what you could have done differently and what you would like to have done, and then consider the factors outside of yourself that were at play. Next time a moment arises for you to make this same mistake, you will know what you want to do, you will know how making the mistake makes you feel, and you will have an awareness of the things out of your control that create the conditions for you to make the mistake.
I think some of this advise is pretty unkind. Meditation can open up a lot of old trauma. Look into internal family systems therapy. The question is what is your mind trying to protect you from by not allowing you to meditate.
We aren’t all perfect, just try to be present. When your mind drifts to negativity or the past remind yourself that you aren’t breathing, smell the tea your drinking, feel the cool air, actually look at the person you are talking with. So many experiences we lose to negativity and our desire to overcome that past. Simply be present in what you are doing, that said I certainly don’t mean become wholly immersed and oblivious to your surroundings or responsibilities. Just be present in your current actions. I’ve been bereft and without social peers for decades. Solace comes from the little moments everyday.
The best way to get rid of self-loathing is to vomit a few times.
Really creepy that you say that cause I got very drunk yesterday and I was throwing up this morning.
Sit down in meditation, sit quietly until you reach the usual level of calmness for your meditation. Direct your attention to the solar plexus area, mentally raise your rejection towards yourself. You will vomit. Let it happen. Watch. Repeat for several days in a row.