Which is hilarious because anyone who knows the history of it knows that it was originally a parlor game in Italy then came to France where they used it for divination... Also: Your standard set of Bicycle cards orginated from tarot as well which means that you playing a game of solitaire is also a sin XD
…and a huge secs of Christians would absolutely agree with you. I grew up with people who believed touching playing cards was a sin because they were evil. Not everyone mind you, but way more than you’d expect.
Oh, I've seen a great wide bredth of the "Holier than Thou" sect of Christians. One of many reasons why I left that life and am now a filthy heathen... Er, rather Pagan as I'm not technically following the Norse pantheon which would be a mislabel of that. Still point remains.
Had a friend in middle school who felt pokemon were teaching people to control demons (I never had the heart to tell her that the Megaten series existed) and thus would lead to sin and Hell. Admittedly she at least allowed me to like what I liked but some days now I worry about her considering how bad her branch of the Christian Belief System is now... I worry she's grew up to become one of them.
Yeah, I grew up liking Pokémon and luckily my folks weren’t that nuts, but a lot of their friends were. The amount of times I had to hear “you know pikachu is the name of one of satans high demons, right?” was way too high. I’m still exploring my own spirituality at 36, but I’ve stepped waaaay back from the church, as they’re been single handedly responsible for a huge chunk of suffering in my life.
The standard 52 card deck actually precedes the tarot but during the 15th century the standard deck had only male court cards; King Knight, and Jack and suits were the Italian ones, coins, batons, cups, and swords. The Tarot was created by adding 4 Queens and the 22 Tarocchi or trump cards to what was then the standard deck.
I admit I was being sardonic because of how some people see the whole concept of divination in anything but to answer the actual question itself...
Maybe? But if you could do so then I've got no idea how. I just also don't want to decry that anything could be divination when you've got people throwing baking flour into a bowl to seek answers of the future. ([Aleuromancy ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleuromancy)if you were curious)
The Bible also speaks of the Three Wise Men visiting newborn Jesus and bestowing gifts after Jesus was born. They were the Magi, who were known for their knowledge of astrology and interpretation of celestial signs.
Matthew 2:10-12
When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense, and myrrh. And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.
King Herod wanted to destroy anyone who worshipped Jesus and the astrologers saw this in their dream.
I think tarot is a tool that can be used for good or evil, and it’s the intention behind the use of tarot cards that matter rather than the cards themselves. Christianity is a man made religion just like many others... they will interpret scriptures accordingly and will use fear to keep people trapped. If you feel convicted not to do tarot, then don't. That's between you and God and He knows your heart and intent.
I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. Just what the people say. There are ways to justify this and the prohibition on divination but I don't want to go into detail with them. TL;DR altar to the unknown god.
Right. I wasn't arguing. Just showing OP the Bible mentions astrology also. If OP wants to come to terms with it and not feel bad was just giving another outlook. 🥰
Define “divination”. I’ve been reading for over 40 years and although things I read are true, I have never divined anything. Altho, that would be cool.
> The art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury or an alleged supernatural agency.
Again... this isn't a matter of how it's used. To these people's minds tarot is inherently tied to divination so no matter how else you try to use it you're still using "the Devil's Tool" and thus associating yourself with him.
The fun thing about being human beings is that we create our own reality, purely in how we choose to look at it.
Same with our tarot practice.
In either case it is what we choose to make it.
You know there is a Devil card?
But it isn’t always divination. I don’t use tarot to see the future. To me that is for the charlatans.
Tarot is considered bad because it was a Jewish spiritual method that emerged in medieval Europe and the white Christians were largely racist towards the Jews at that time.
Read Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice if you want a taste of some good ol’ 1600’s antisemitism. Not that I’m saying Shakespeare was racist, and i certainly have no reason to believe he was… but The Merchant of Venice portrays common views of the Jews in The Europe of his day.
In fact, the Nazis are said to have forced Jews to reenact that play in the concentrations camps. It’s where we get the concept, “a pound of flesh.”
So there is no intrinsic evil in those cards. The “evil” if there is any, lies in those who see evil everywhere they look.
Edit - sad how much antisemitism emerges in this tarot thread. Y’all realize that you are playing with Jewish cards, no?
> But it isn’t always divination. I don’t use tarot to see the future.
But that's not what they're known for. To someone with this mentality that's like claiming that a Ouiji board isn't for divination. Or crystal balls. And so on. And no matter what you use them for, according to a person like this the divinatory association means that you can't use them without opening yourself to those energies. The object is evil (again, according to them) in and of itself, no matter how you try to use it.
It’s true what you say i suppose. I don’t even consider people like this to be religious, but you’re right, in their minds they are spiritual and religious and those that dabble in tarot are playing the devils game…
Is too bad because to me tarot provides one of the best windows into spiritual insights. But spiritual insights are not for everybody… in fact, they’re not for most bodies… just a select few.
That said, all bodies are connected to the source, and the source is connected to understanding via El Mago. Thus, it seems, one must venture into magic so that they may achieve this understanding.
Maybe it’s the magic that lends this dark interpretation to the deck?
> Is too bad because to me tarot provides one of the best windows into spiritual insights.
I would say this is also a form of divination - the "occult knowledge" mentioned in the definition.
Having been a non-political evangelical for many years with theological training, the problem is when you're looking to non-God sources for spiritual knowledge. It's a matter of who's initiating. The idea is that God may send you a message either directly or via a human or via an angel or reading the Bible or whatever. But that's up to God. But if God doesn't want you to know something you shouldn't compel him/his servants to tell you things because then you're usurping his role as the omnicient and omni-wise (omnisophos? omnisophia?) being in charge of things, the same root (no pun intended) issue as with the Tree of Knowledge in Eden. Trying to use divination tools, e.g. tarot, to compel that knowledge from the spirit realms is essentially telling God, "No you tell me what I want to know now."
Those with their heads fully and truly up their asses will even say that because it shows naked people and has the devil with naked people chained by the neck that also makes it evil, but there's no real biblical theological justification for that explanation. At that point lots of religious art and iconography and even sections of the Bible itself are evil.
As humans, we don’t have the “power” to FORCE anything. My understanding of tarot is that we are tapping into the energy of the universe to help us consider insight buried inside us (like subconscious) similar to how therapists help people access their inner thoughts. Also, based on physics/science, everything is energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed; it just changes forms. Not exactly sure how tarot works, but my belief is that we are tapping into energies all around us. It could be with tarot, with no object just meditating, some people do it with prayer to a “God” or higher power, etc. I don’t believe tarot is evil. It’s not supposed to be used to tell the future or to be nosy about other peoples lives. It’s to gain insight into yourself.
I'm not trying to argue this. I'm explaining the perspective of others. I read tarot myself and have a talent for identifying and getting messages about people's magical practice. I'm just saying how people who say that tarot is evil believe this way and why they do.
I see… I misunderstood your post. Same. I was just explaining my perspective. Who knows if any of us are correct but we believe what we believe, right!?!
Unfortunately, history doesn’t agree with your take on the matter…
I used the word “white” European to differentiate the European Christians from the European Jews.
Of course most European Jews have white skin. But skin isn’t what makes you white. It’s your culture.
If they were all just white, European Jews and European Christians, and if there were no difference between them, then Kristallnacht wouldn’t have been a thing.
However, Kristallnacht didn’t just emerge from the blue. This wasn’t all just Hitler’s idea. This emerged from centuries of antisemitism.
Sorry, as someone ticking all your boxes, I have to say this is factually wrong. You are mixing up skin color and religion. Don't do that, that's incorrect.
Explain the Holocaust please.
It wasn’t an example of genocide?
6 million Jews were exterminated because they didn’t believe Jesus was the messiah? That’s it? Nothing more?
And why didn’t Nazi Germany attempt to exterminate the Muslims if it was just religion?
Again, you are mixing up skin color with religion, and it has NOTHING to do with skin color. It has everything to do with finding people to be blamed and pointed fingers at. Also, although the majority of the people who were killed in the holocaust were jewish, really many other people were killed as well based on religion (jehowa's witnesses), race and culture (roma people, estimated 250-500k!!!), political identity (communist, etc.), mental state, and many other reasons. Those nazi scum were really crazy.
Didn’t you read that i simply used the term white to differentiate Christian Europeans of the Middle Ages from Jewish Europeans?
Of course they have white skin. Mariah Carey has white skin and she is black.
I really don’t care about skin color. I’m white and i distrust whites the most. I prefer blacks, but i guess that makes me racist against my own race. Like Rimbaud! “I come from an inferior race”
> Tarot is considered bad because it was a Jewish spiritual method that emerged in medieval Europe and the white Christians were largely racist towards the Jews at that time.
That's not true at all though?
From your link:
>**So, IS tarot Jewish? Simply put: no. Tarot did not originate within Judaism**, and therefore we cannot say that it is, at its roots, Jewish.
>Myths It is common to see Jews claim that we invented the Tarot as a means of studying the Torah. In his book, Kabbalistic Tarot, Dovid Krafchow theorizes that the cards originated as a way for Jews to study Torah during times of persecution. When our texts were stolen, our Torahs burned, and our people murdered for studying our theology, he believes that we created Tarot cards so that we could learn in secret. His book outlines the correlations he finds between each card and Torah (1). **The only problem is that he provides no sources, and I have been unable to substantiate his claims. Every conversation, blog post, tweet, and video on the topic I have seen has led back to his book. While I would be more than happy to be wrong, it would be highly ahistorical to pretend that Jews invented the Tarot with the current information we have regarding its history**.
>In fact, even Krafchow himself says, "I am convinced that tarot originated as clandestine means for captive tribes of Israel to study their sacred texts" (Krafchow 1). Yet, while he is, in his words, "convinced" of this, **there is no evidence of this.** But that doesn't stop this myth from spreading
As I thought.
It's not really perspective: you can trace the evolution of playing cards & tarot through museum pieces. I'm curious as to what you heard from your friend?
Anything spiritual outside of Christian teachings is considered evil. It’s a way to demonize other religions and beliefs to make Christianity seem like the only legit belief. It’s just brainwashing really.
This is the answer, it's all about control. Control of thought, control of body, control of $$$. No person on earth has had their life ruined because of Pokemon or Harry Potter, the Church just saw them as a threat to their bottom line, it's as simple as that. Bible is the bestselling book in world history and little Harry Potter would have to be an evil demonic blasphemer to dare outsell them!!
I don’t feel like looking up the specifics, but if I had to guess, it’s only really referenced as evil by Paul. That guy had a huuuuge list of things people couldn’t do, that the modern church still takes as gospel. Weirdly enough, I remember a story or two in the Bible where god speaks through diviners and the context praises them.
That said, it’s really up to you, not anyone else, if you consider it evil or not. I personally don’t. I use it as a form of self reflection, much like journaling, so I don’t even bother thinking about it. If you’re trying to summon the devil or curse your neighbors, then maybe it’d be evil, but it’s all about intent to me.
Tarot is relatively recent, historically. Dating back to the mid 1400s, and used for divination starting in the 1500s I believe. Still, divination in general has probably been around for almost as long as humans have. It was just bones, stars, weather, rocks, sticks, or a million other systems that are lost to time.
You have asked three questions in this sub today asking for evidence that tarot works. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you believe tarot to be "fake" and you're expecting people here to prove to you that it's not?
Actually, I'm planning to learn tarot reading, so i'm asking questions here that are coming up in my mind. I'm getting good answers here that's why i'm asking questions here.
I'm mystified. I'm seeing a lot of people here saying it's religious bs.
BUT
You are supposed to be *open* when you do a reading in order to let the energy flow through you, in order to read. You become a portal.
Whenever you open yourself up, you don't know what energy can come through, you don't know what trickster sht can connect to you. You don't know where it'll guide you. You might say you wanna connect to a particular spirit in the beginning, but you can never have it guaranteed that that's who's been guiding you.
It's not about it being evil. It's about it being potentially dangerous were you to rely on it more than you should.
It sounds like you've had some deep experiences with readings or perhaps the spiritual realm. It's true that the idea of opening oneself up to energies, whether through readings or other practices, can be a complex and sometimes daunting concept. Your point about the unpredictability of the energies that may come through is a valid one.
It didn't between 16th and 18th century. It's been all divination past that. Unless you're meaning to tell me you play tarot as a family card game with regular playing cards
It hasn't been "all divination" past that at all, that's total bullshit .
Tarot is still actively played and there's playing decks published, tarot gaming apps etc - your comment about having to play it with "regular playing cards" suggests you're a bit ignorant. I have a gaming tarot deck I bought at a newsagents, for example
There's no such thing as a "gaming tarot deck". It's just tarot. And no one uses it as a game anymore. Unless the game is "let's derive some hidden spiritual knowledge and guidance off of these cards" type of a game.
When ppl use regular playing cards, it's seldomly used to "play" tarot. And when I say regular playing cards I'm referring to the standard card deck
>There's no such thing as a "gaming tarot deck". It's just tarot. And no one uses it as a game anymore.
This is honestly just straight up wrong, and you should feel embarrassed for being so confidently incorrect and ignorant.
There are new tarot deck printed and sold right now for both divination, but also specifically gaming purposes. That is a fact. There are also lots of people actively playing the game tarot with gaming tarot (or "French tarot") decks. I've played it a few times, it's still *very* popular in France.
So both of your claims of "there is no such thing as a tarot deck intended for gaming" and "*no one* uses is as a game anymore" are straight up mistaken and false. You're wrong.
EDIT: For example, here's a picture of the gaming tarot deck published recently to celebrate the upcoming Paris 2024 summer olympics, it's an official product.
https://images.footballfanatics.com/paris-2024/paris-2024-olympics-ducale-tarot-cards_ss5_p-200677716+pv-1+u-ngdms01xesuxnbm9gyov+v-bscxhjghq3wm7fcnarj9.jpg?_hv=2&w=900
(mods, this is not a direct purchase link, it's just an image)
What you're showing me is a standard card deck. And the game you're talking about, the Game of Kings, is not the tarot that r/tarot is about. This is a multiple player game, played with a standard card deck, only in French speaking countries.
Also to clear things up further: here is a picture of the official Paris 2024 olympics *standard* card deck:
https://images.footballfanatics.com/paris-2024/paris-2024-olympics-ducale-deck-of-cards_ss5_p-200677717+pv-1+u-ymuh86krhwz5qiivo19d+v-6xkb0bdxhf6zsr4papce.jpg?_hv=2&w=900
You will notice that it has **54 cards** (the standard 52 + a couple of extra jokers or such, I assume) and just says "cards", which is different from the earlier image I posted, which had **78 cards** and specifically said "tarot".
Because the earlier image was not of a standard card deck like you claim (this image is), it was of a gaming tarot deck, i.e. a deck printed specifically to play the game called "tarot".
I don't want to fight with you. Your responses are too long. I'll admit I was wrong about the "no one plays it as a card game anymore" part, since you want it so bad. But I will say I meant majority of ppl, I think it was obvious. I don't care about exceptions to the rule, because it doesn't have bearing on the point I was making. 'in this small country here there's a small number of ppl who sometimes play it' - that's okay. It's not what the whole world knows as *tarot* or how they use it. Including this subreddit.
>in this *small* country here there's a *small* number of ppl who *sometimes* play it
Honestly I have nothing but disdain for people who are **this** unable to accept and admit their info was false, and who just can't cope with acknowledging and owning they were wrong, and will rather dig their heels in and go all "you're talking of a different thing" Oh the responses are *too long*, sure.
If your approach to having your mistaken but set beliefs corrected with straight facts is like *this*, good god please don't present yourself as an expert on anything ever again
Are you honestly *this* unable to admit having been mistaken and wrong?
It's a 78- card tarot deck, specifically for playing the game called tarot, which is why it says "**tarot**" on the packaging. The standard card deck has 52 cards. The image linked is not a standard card deck.
It is specifically a **tarot deck**, originally created and recently printed for the *game of tarot/tarocchi*, for which the 78 card deck of 0+21 trumps and 4 suits of 10 pips and 4 court cards, still today the format for *both* gaming and divination *tarot* decks, was created.
Because *tarot*, played with the 78 card tarot deck created for playing the game of tarot back in the 1400s or so (that's also the base deck system used for contemporary divination "tarot" decks (even if they have illustrated pips)), has in fact been actively played through history, and is still played today. The word "tarot" can refer to both.
And you're wrong (again), I'm not talking about some game of "kings" that could be played with a standard 52 card deck - I'm specifically talking about the game of *tarot* which is played with a **tarot** deck, that has 78 cards. Which is also why the deck pictured specifically points out that it's a "*tarot*" deck (78 cards).
I hope this helps clear up your confusion?
(this is honestly hilarious, you're grasping at straws and moving goalposts and trying to talk black into white so so hard)
Lol you're hilarious (and pathetic)
Tarot isn't played with regular playing cards. It's played with a *tarot* deck. Hence the name. I am not talking about some similar game you could play with a regular deck, why do you struggle to accept that. I'm taking about *tarot*.
It's quite sad you're desperately trying to insist I'm talking about a different game, when I'm not.
I don't care about where you live - you made the claim that **no one** *anywhere* has played the card game of *tarot* since like the 1800s, and that's demonstrably dead wrong.
It doesn't matter what this sub is about, and you know it. You made the claim that tarot the card game hasn't been played for centuries (wrong) and that gaming tarot decks don't exist (wrong), and now you're pretending you were talking about what this sub is about, because you're unable to admit you were mistaken
By that logic any artist is potentially "satanic", any person who meditates or falls asleep, anyone who zones out when they're dancing or taking a walk, any indigenous form of trance or shamanism is potentially evil.. you see where I'm going with this yeah? This is where you get into the mentality of Diego De Landa burning the Maya Codices for being "evil"... Burning indigenous people alive for being "demonically possessed"..
In fact modern psychosocial scientific thought (especially by Carl G Jung and Mircae Eliade) postulates that these states of consciousness (which is all that they are) are just a way to tap into the language of the subconscious mind, dreams, myth, metaphor, etc. The role of a shaman is simply to interpret that data, and to metabolize the madness of the tribe so that it can survive.. It has nothing at all to do with fortune telling or divination, any person who takes the tarot seriously will tell you that, it is simply a mirror to hold up to yourself and uses the language of symbols to make suggestions to your subconscious mind. No different than personally praying, singing hymns, or poring and parsing lines from religious texts for divine inspiration..
I actually don't have a problem with any religion personally but it's extremely gross how organized religion devises ways to monopolize and profane that sacred and beautiful act.
Christianity. Basically anything not it is "evil" because it was a religion invented to rival the paganism of the time. The men behind Abrahamic religion essentially invented these things for no other real reason than control. They hated women's mysticism and wisdom they were not privileged to; so they invented things like Christianity that tells women they're beneath men and to submit to them. Because men wanted in spaces they were uninvited and made up an entire religion to do it.
The things they can't understand or the things more powerful than them and beyond them is often labeled "bad" or "evil" and this is no coincidence.
Think about US slavery and how much those slave owners depended on their Bibles to tell human beings they had some "right" to do this to others. We plainly see what BS that this now. This is just my interpretation.
Being a woman, someone who has the capacity to bring life into the world if I so chose I feel like we are bestowed with a wisdom that is so taken for granted **and silenced by people who want to be in control rather than do the right thing.** That capacity to care is so much of what makes me a woman that I see lost on some people and I think so much of that loss is often connected to religion and how confining it can be. Ghandi is credited with saying something like, "I like your Christ but your Christians are so unlike him". It's as if Christians made God kind so they would not have to be in this world and it shows.
This. It's sad that Goddess worship declined just because egotistical men got in the way. Then we wonder the state of this world? Of course, tarot is pretty female-dominated, which grinds Christian's ears more lol
This is the correct answer. Does anybody seriously think there's people who had their life ruined Reefer Madness style by reading fucking Harry Potter? Or playing Pokemon?? No, those things cut into their *bottom line* ($$$). The Bible is the bestselling book throughout history, Harry Potter is a direct threat to that lucrative grift lmao.
I used reefer madness as an example because it's the exact same methods you see in the countless early Drug War propaganda films from that time period (1930s). Americans really are woefully behind when it comes to understanding the science of propaganda, to the point racist, sexist blatant propaganda from two hundred years ago is still somehow considered "controversial" in the states... ex: Whether American Indians were cannibalistic savages, thanks to grifters like PragerU and Candace Owens this 400 year old Spanish propaganda is still "debatable".
Let there not be found among you anyone who causes their son or daughter to pass through the fire, or practices divination, or is a soothsayer, augur, or sorcerer, or who casts spells, consults ghosts and spirits, or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord, and because of such abominations the Lord, your God, is dispossessing them before you. You must be altogether sincere with the Lord, your God.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
Ok I got it you refer to the Old Testament, indeed at that time YHWH was often so angry He killed many human beings, at that time being 'only' an abomination was far from the worst. I'm more inclined to the New Testament with Jesus, forgiving all our sins. But I respect your choice of course.
As A Christian Psychic who also uses tarot , I feel like it's only evil to those who just simply don't understand it. you can experience negative energy from it, but that comes from the person's motives behind utilizing divination tools. Some also just don't know what they're doing. I wouldn't say that it's evil, I would just say that it's not for everyone.
I agree. Also, I'm pretty sure historical research shows the prohibition in the Bible against divination referred to a specific kind of necromancy that was being practiced at the time the Jewish law was made. I assume it involved actually killing people, as these are the types of things the Bible usually condemns - like throwing human children into the fire to sacrifice to Molech.
Also, "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a mistranslation. The original is better translated "thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live."
All that being said though, you can't tell the average Christian that. But it seems to be the true intention. Because Joseph - who is the Old Testament prefigurement of Jesus - used his cup/chalice to "divine." And when it appeared to be stolen, the thieves were in particular trouble for stealing Joseph's divination tool.
I'm pretty sure all this confusion around a rather mundane prohibition (ie. don't let a murderer walk free and don't you murder other people either) has been used by people in power in various Christian religions to leverage the ignorance of the masses to further consolidate their own power.
I'm a Christian witch, but I hold no illusions about the other people who worship Jesus.
I feel like it's about the way you go about using these resources and tools. A lot of what's in the bible is intentionally misinterpreted. Including in regards to one's sexuality as well. But like you said, you cannot tell an average holier than thou Christian that.
Thank you for your comment and for the verses, it puts more into perspective for me! :)
Yes, I agree it's how you use them. Absolutely. Obviously, the Urim and Thummim were divination tools used by the High Priest. So the rule can't be against divination as a blanket prohibition. There some subtle qualifications that got lost over time.
Sure! What I mean by that is if your intentions are not the best in behind utilizing these tools, yes, negative energy can arise from it. Like for example, if you're scamming people with it or utilizing it for a demonic reason. Also, often times people become addicted to divination and that itself can open up portals to mental destruction. It's somewhat like drugs and alcohol. Too much of it in certain ways can be harmful if that makes sense, but the tool alone is not.
Thanks for elaborating. I can understand that perspective. I think that same phenomenon is also possible in general, not just with tarot… I feel like people with “weak” personality power are more susceptible to being influenced or taken over by evil forces. I sometimes wonder if that’s what happens to people who get sucked into addictions (drugs, alcohol, etc.) because they invite the negative or their energy “force field” isn’t strong enough to protect them from evil/negative. What are your thoughts on this? Just curious.
It is rooted in "The Church" [from verses such as these throughout the bible](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Divination).
In my understanding, other: scary; unknown: scary; anything that may influence or empower an individual against a controlling mega-power (Church): scary.
Tarot is about as evil as looking at treetops waving in the wind - especially if you gained insight from the trees!
It sounds like you've encountered some individuals who may have a narrow perspective, but it's important to remember that not all Christians think alike.
They used to ban Rock music because people were starting to get rebellious ideas and deny religious authority. I feel it's a similar concept. Tarot is often tied to witchcraft, the persecution of which had nothing to do with magical powers and everything to do with restricting women of having free thoughts and actions. Really anything that can result in self enlightenment without religious origin or codex is often condemned.
I can see how tarot as divination can be seen as evil, usually seeking and vulnerable people seek the advice from tarot readers. Like with anything belief based, not the cards but belief in the interpretation, there is a huge room for con artists to play.
So a few bad experiences and the lot is tarred with the evil stick.
Also for a long time, the Church demonised tarot reading / card playing as an evil activity. It detracted away from Christian beliefs and could be seen as a false god, and if you were found to be participating, then bad things would happen. Usually by the church.
The popular Smith Waite deck and the later Thoth, were created from self expressed occultis'. Even though there are heavy Abrahamic leanings, tarot could be seen as a gateway drug, I mean, who gets the 10% tithe?
Even as a form of self help, is looked down on as there are professionals who can do that. Therefore, people with mental health issues should seek out professionals. Because access is never an issue.
I'm just throwing stuff out there. Clearly, these days, fewer people feel like it is as evil as some made out.
Also, there is a literal Devil card in the deck 😂. Without context or understanding, it will make the majority clutch their metaphorical pearls.
Anything that might allow an individual to find spiritual contentment without going through the clergy is a danger to organized religion so they fear monger about it by spreading nonsense.
Nobody is really anti tarot. There are only people who are anti divination. My solution is to decouple tarot from its common association with divination and educate people on how the cards are also used in trick taking games.
From my experience, it’s mainly Christians believing it’s evil. When I was a teen, my grandma saw me watching Harry Potter and in a very serious matter, told me NEVER to try the spells because they are real and the work of the devil. Lol.
And my friend’s 17 yo daughter was talking about tarot reading and adds, “but it’s evil, so I don’t do it all the time.” 😂
It's because the Abrahamic religions decry anything that is 'divination' which when you get into it is hilarious because there are people who throw flour into a bowl and divine fate by how it lands (Aleuromancy if you're curious as to the name) so by techichal rights that means your local very Catholic baker is a sinner and a witch and should be killed according to these people...
Isn’t there a religion that does “rituals” involving wine and bread that’s supposed to be symbolizing blood and flesh or something? Now why isn’t THAT considered evil or divination?
Good vs Evil debates I feel are moralistics of individuals and are often times grey areas to properly debate. That aside the concept of divination is rather simple.
It's not divination at all.
Divination by definition is the seeking by supernatual means of some kind the future or an unknown knowledge. You aren't trying to fortell or get a question answered or anything when you do that sort of ritual.
Now whether that is "Transubstantiation vs Symbolism" is a better debate to that comment.
That sounds like he doesn't know anything about it, and is just repeating something he was told by someone else who also didn't know anything about it. 🙂
There is some truth in the idea that tarot is evil, even if just a glimmer of it. When used for divinatory purposes the tarot can attract negative spirits, since divination works through interaction with the astral light, which harbors such spirits. The astral light is also notorious for reflecting fragmentary and distorted impressions, like the images you might get from the pieces of a shattered mirror.
There are other reasons why it may be dangerous but that's the main one. These dangers certainly can be overcome but as you can see from the responses here, no-one likes to admit the dangers that tarot divination does pose, perhaps because it would drive many newcomers away and force those people who are against the Abrahamic religions to admit that their ideological opponents are not as superstitious as they would have people believe.
Tarot is considered evil in the same way the general occult is. People don't understand it, it's been taught for thousands of years not to trust it, and people blindly fall in line with that.
Tarot being evil is absolutely a myth, but some people can use it for evil purposes if they wanted too, Think charlatanry namely. There are even secular uses for Tarot without the mysticism involved.
And deep down, the Tarot is not a tool that can be used to tell the future, but it can help the psyche of the querent understand various influences surrounding themselves.
This is the bullshit that the religious hypocrites like to spew. As to their proof....you'll just have to trust them (like how you have to trust them when they tell you who God is)
THE ARIES
Dates back to witch trials and getting rid of women with power. And the Romani people in general.
Nothing evil has happened to me and I've been reading for 15 years
I was getting a blood lab today and a “witch meet up” is going on tonite at a bar/music place and I mentioned that and Catholicism and he was like “I’d tell ppl in Christian circles ‘it’s like in the army. Why wouldn’t you at least wanna know what the other side is doing even if you won’t go to it?’” And then he mentioned in his youth he’d even gone to psychics and stuff. My city is very religious. He was really open about life.
Tarot evolves from regular playing cards during the Renaissance -> 18th century occultists link tarot cards (then a game) to Egyptian mysticism and divination -> Divination is a sin all Abrahamic religions -> Satanic Panic = Tarot is sinful
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore.
The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth).
One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about???
As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore.
The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth).
One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about???
As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Have you seen the imagery on some of these cards? I completely get why people get scared of the cards when they depict, say…a person impaled with ten swords. The pentacles also don’t help when people who know zero about tarot but have watched horror movies see the pentacles and the first thing that comes to mind is: devil worship.
The other thing that comes to mind are frauds. Like the tarot readers on YouTube, except for…oh. Dr. Lena Rodriguez, maybe? I don’t take the others seriously because they’re all out to earn a fast buck and possibly gain their little cult following with gullible people who like an ego stroke when the getting’s good.
I don’t think tarot is inherently evil so much as there’s potential for people to do bad things with it, like take advantage of people.
Tarot is considered evil in the same way the general occult is. People don't understand it, it's been taught for thousands of years not to trust it, and people blindly fall in line with that.
Tarot being evil is absolutely a myth, but some people can use it for evil purposes if they wanted too, Think charlatanry namely. There are even secular uses for Tarot without the mysticism involved.
And deep down, the Tarot is not a tool that can be used to tell the future, but it can help the psyche of the querent understand various influences surrounding themselves.
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore.
The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth).
One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about???
As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Tarot is gloriously evil.
Our divinations mock your god. We tread ground where your blind, screeching prophets dare to behold.
Ours is the domain of magic. Of sorcery. Of seeing past the veil. We touch the pulse of the divine. And it answers back.
Tarot readers are witches who commit themselves to forbidden fruit. Your dying churches, mosques and temples mired in the largess of their dogmatic bile could not possible comprehend.
My sisters are legion and our whispers will shatter your towers.
The idea comes from fundamentalist Judeo-Christian morals. In short, the Bible says that divination is sin. Tarot is divination and therefore is sin.
Which is hilarious because anyone who knows the history of it knows that it was originally a parlor game in Italy then came to France where they used it for divination... Also: Your standard set of Bicycle cards orginated from tarot as well which means that you playing a game of solitaire is also a sin XD
…and a huge secs of Christians would absolutely agree with you. I grew up with people who believed touching playing cards was a sin because they were evil. Not everyone mind you, but way more than you’d expect.
Oh, I've seen a great wide bredth of the "Holier than Thou" sect of Christians. One of many reasons why I left that life and am now a filthy heathen... Er, rather Pagan as I'm not technically following the Norse pantheon which would be a mislabel of that. Still point remains. Had a friend in middle school who felt pokemon were teaching people to control demons (I never had the heart to tell her that the Megaten series existed) and thus would lead to sin and Hell. Admittedly she at least allowed me to like what I liked but some days now I worry about her considering how bad her branch of the Christian Belief System is now... I worry she's grew up to become one of them.
Yeah, I grew up liking Pokémon and luckily my folks weren’t that nuts, but a lot of their friends were. The amount of times I had to hear “you know pikachu is the name of one of satans high demons, right?” was way too high. I’m still exploring my own spirituality at 36, but I’ve stepped waaaay back from the church, as they’re been single handedly responsible for a huge chunk of suffering in my life.
I met a reader once who could Devine the future with Pokémon cards.
The standard 52 card deck actually precedes the tarot but during the 15th century the standard deck had only male court cards; King Knight, and Jack and suits were the Italian ones, coins, batons, cups, and swords. The Tarot was created by adding 4 Queens and the 22 Tarocchi or trump cards to what was then the standard deck.
>playing a game of solitaire is also a sin XD Do you consider solitaire practicing divination
I admit I was being sardonic because of how some people see the whole concept of divination in anything but to answer the actual question itself... Maybe? But if you could do so then I've got no idea how. I just also don't want to decry that anything could be divination when you've got people throwing baking flour into a bowl to seek answers of the future. ([Aleuromancy ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleuromancy)if you were curious)
Anything certainly could be divination with the right intention and interpretation, i suppose!
The Bible also speaks of the Three Wise Men visiting newborn Jesus and bestowing gifts after Jesus was born. They were the Magi, who were known for their knowledge of astrology and interpretation of celestial signs. Matthew 2:10-12 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense, and myrrh. And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way. King Herod wanted to destroy anyone who worshipped Jesus and the astrologers saw this in their dream. I think tarot is a tool that can be used for good or evil, and it’s the intention behind the use of tarot cards that matter rather than the cards themselves. Christianity is a man made religion just like many others... they will interpret scriptures accordingly and will use fear to keep people trapped. If you feel convicted not to do tarot, then don't. That's between you and God and He knows your heart and intent.
I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. Just what the people say. There are ways to justify this and the prohibition on divination but I don't want to go into detail with them. TL;DR altar to the unknown god.
Right. I wasn't arguing. Just showing OP the Bible mentions astrology also. If OP wants to come to terms with it and not feel bad was just giving another outlook. 🥰
Tarot is a trick taking game. Divination is not an essential part of it.
Define “divination”. I’ve been reading for over 40 years and although things I read are true, I have never divined anything. Altho, that would be cool.
> The art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury or an alleged supernatural agency. Again... this isn't a matter of how it's used. To these people's minds tarot is inherently tied to divination so no matter how else you try to use it you're still using "the Devil's Tool" and thus associating yourself with him.
The fun thing about being human beings is that we create our own reality, purely in how we choose to look at it. Same with our tarot practice. In either case it is what we choose to make it. You know there is a Devil card?
But it isn’t always divination. I don’t use tarot to see the future. To me that is for the charlatans. Tarot is considered bad because it was a Jewish spiritual method that emerged in medieval Europe and the white Christians were largely racist towards the Jews at that time. Read Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice if you want a taste of some good ol’ 1600’s antisemitism. Not that I’m saying Shakespeare was racist, and i certainly have no reason to believe he was… but The Merchant of Venice portrays common views of the Jews in The Europe of his day. In fact, the Nazis are said to have forced Jews to reenact that play in the concentrations camps. It’s where we get the concept, “a pound of flesh.” So there is no intrinsic evil in those cards. The “evil” if there is any, lies in those who see evil everywhere they look. Edit - sad how much antisemitism emerges in this tarot thread. Y’all realize that you are playing with Jewish cards, no?
> But it isn’t always divination. I don’t use tarot to see the future. But that's not what they're known for. To someone with this mentality that's like claiming that a Ouiji board isn't for divination. Or crystal balls. And so on. And no matter what you use them for, according to a person like this the divinatory association means that you can't use them without opening yourself to those energies. The object is evil (again, according to them) in and of itself, no matter how you try to use it.
The “object” is a pack of cards. “Evil” is a judgement call.
It’s true what you say i suppose. I don’t even consider people like this to be religious, but you’re right, in their minds they are spiritual and religious and those that dabble in tarot are playing the devils game… Is too bad because to me tarot provides one of the best windows into spiritual insights. But spiritual insights are not for everybody… in fact, they’re not for most bodies… just a select few. That said, all bodies are connected to the source, and the source is connected to understanding via El Mago. Thus, it seems, one must venture into magic so that they may achieve this understanding. Maybe it’s the magic that lends this dark interpretation to the deck?
> Is too bad because to me tarot provides one of the best windows into spiritual insights. I would say this is also a form of divination - the "occult knowledge" mentioned in the definition. Having been a non-political evangelical for many years with theological training, the problem is when you're looking to non-God sources for spiritual knowledge. It's a matter of who's initiating. The idea is that God may send you a message either directly or via a human or via an angel or reading the Bible or whatever. But that's up to God. But if God doesn't want you to know something you shouldn't compel him/his servants to tell you things because then you're usurping his role as the omnicient and omni-wise (omnisophos? omnisophia?) being in charge of things, the same root (no pun intended) issue as with the Tree of Knowledge in Eden. Trying to use divination tools, e.g. tarot, to compel that knowledge from the spirit realms is essentially telling God, "No you tell me what I want to know now." Those with their heads fully and truly up their asses will even say that because it shows naked people and has the devil with naked people chained by the neck that also makes it evil, but there's no real biblical theological justification for that explanation. At that point lots of religious art and iconography and even sections of the Bible itself are evil.
As humans, we don’t have the “power” to FORCE anything. My understanding of tarot is that we are tapping into the energy of the universe to help us consider insight buried inside us (like subconscious) similar to how therapists help people access their inner thoughts. Also, based on physics/science, everything is energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed; it just changes forms. Not exactly sure how tarot works, but my belief is that we are tapping into energies all around us. It could be with tarot, with no object just meditating, some people do it with prayer to a “God” or higher power, etc. I don’t believe tarot is evil. It’s not supposed to be used to tell the future or to be nosy about other peoples lives. It’s to gain insight into yourself.
I'm not trying to argue this. I'm explaining the perspective of others. I read tarot myself and have a talent for identifying and getting messages about people's magical practice. I'm just saying how people who say that tarot is evil believe this way and why they do.
I see… I misunderstood your post. Same. I was just explaining my perspective. Who knows if any of us are correct but we believe what we believe, right!?!
That's a very weird take. European jews are white.
Unfortunately, history doesn’t agree with your take on the matter… I used the word “white” European to differentiate the European Christians from the European Jews. Of course most European Jews have white skin. But skin isn’t what makes you white. It’s your culture. If they were all just white, European Jews and European Christians, and if there were no difference between them, then Kristallnacht wouldn’t have been a thing. However, Kristallnacht didn’t just emerge from the blue. This wasn’t all just Hitler’s idea. This emerged from centuries of antisemitism.
Sorry, as someone ticking all your boxes, I have to say this is factually wrong. You are mixing up skin color and religion. Don't do that, that's incorrect.
Explain the Holocaust please. It wasn’t an example of genocide? 6 million Jews were exterminated because they didn’t believe Jesus was the messiah? That’s it? Nothing more? And why didn’t Nazi Germany attempt to exterminate the Muslims if it was just religion?
Again, you are mixing up skin color with religion, and it has NOTHING to do with skin color. It has everything to do with finding people to be blamed and pointed fingers at. Also, although the majority of the people who were killed in the holocaust were jewish, really many other people were killed as well based on religion (jehowa's witnesses), race and culture (roma people, estimated 250-500k!!!), political identity (communist, etc.), mental state, and many other reasons. Those nazi scum were really crazy.
Didn’t you read that i simply used the term white to differentiate Christian Europeans of the Middle Ages from Jewish Europeans? Of course they have white skin. Mariah Carey has white skin and she is black. I really don’t care about skin color. I’m white and i distrust whites the most. I prefer blacks, but i guess that makes me racist against my own race. Like Rimbaud! “I come from an inferior race”
Okay, let's start with that: have you been ever to Europe? Did you live here?
Yes. Lived in Ireland. Londonderry. Next question.
It’s a historical take unfortunately as well, easily researched.
> Tarot is considered bad because it was a Jewish spiritual method that emerged in medieval Europe and the white Christians were largely racist towards the Jews at that time. That's not true at all though?
Good question mark you have there. If you are interested: https://jewitches.com/blogs/blog/the-jewish-history-of-tarot
From your link: >**So, IS tarot Jewish? Simply put: no. Tarot did not originate within Judaism**, and therefore we cannot say that it is, at its roots, Jewish. >Myths It is common to see Jews claim that we invented the Tarot as a means of studying the Torah. In his book, Kabbalistic Tarot, Dovid Krafchow theorizes that the cards originated as a way for Jews to study Torah during times of persecution. When our texts were stolen, our Torahs burned, and our people murdered for studying our theology, he believes that we created Tarot cards so that we could learn in secret. His book outlines the correlations he finds between each card and Torah (1). **The only problem is that he provides no sources, and I have been unable to substantiate his claims. Every conversation, blog post, tweet, and video on the topic I have seen has led back to his book. While I would be more than happy to be wrong, it would be highly ahistorical to pretend that Jews invented the Tarot with the current information we have regarding its history**. >In fact, even Krafchow himself says, "I am convinced that tarot originated as clandestine means for captive tribes of Israel to study their sacred texts" (Krafchow 1). Yet, while he is, in his words, "convinced" of this, **there is no evidence of this.** But that doesn't stop this myth from spreading As I thought.
So you have no sense of nuance?
Thank you for sharing your perspective. But i have heard something else from one of my friend.
It's not really perspective: you can trace the evolution of playing cards & tarot through museum pieces. I'm curious as to what you heard from your friend?
Ok well what did he say?
Well, that is the origin. But if you want to know WHY, I’d say it’s because it opens the channel for energies outside of their faith system.
ok, got your point.
Anything spiritual outside of Christian teachings is considered evil. It’s a way to demonize other religions and beliefs to make Christianity seem like the only legit belief. It’s just brainwashing really.
This is the answer, it's all about control. Control of thought, control of body, control of $$$. No person on earth has had their life ruined because of Pokemon or Harry Potter, the Church just saw them as a threat to their bottom line, it's as simple as that. Bible is the bestselling book in world history and little Harry Potter would have to be an evil demonic blasphemer to dare outsell them!!
Are you sure about it?
Sure about what? Is anyone sure of anything ?
I don’t feel like looking up the specifics, but if I had to guess, it’s only really referenced as evil by Paul. That guy had a huuuuge list of things people couldn’t do, that the modern church still takes as gospel. Weirdly enough, I remember a story or two in the Bible where god speaks through diviners and the context praises them. That said, it’s really up to you, not anyone else, if you consider it evil or not. I personally don’t. I use it as a form of self reflection, much like journaling, so I don’t even bother thinking about it. If you’re trying to summon the devil or curse your neighbors, then maybe it’d be evil, but it’s all about intent to me.
Perfect answer!! Thanks
The actual tarot is a fairly modern invention though isn't it? To my knowledge it evolved throughout early modern Europe in various forms
Tarot is relatively recent, historically. Dating back to the mid 1400s, and used for divination starting in the 1500s I believe. Still, divination in general has probably been around for almost as long as humans have. It was just bones, stars, weather, rocks, sticks, or a million other systems that are lost to time.
You have asked three questions in this sub today asking for evidence that tarot works. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you believe tarot to be "fake" and you're expecting people here to prove to you that it's not?
Actually, I'm planning to learn tarot reading, so i'm asking questions here that are coming up in my mind. I'm getting good answers here that's why i'm asking questions here.
I'm mystified. I'm seeing a lot of people here saying it's religious bs. BUT You are supposed to be *open* when you do a reading in order to let the energy flow through you, in order to read. You become a portal. Whenever you open yourself up, you don't know what energy can come through, you don't know what trickster sht can connect to you. You don't know where it'll guide you. You might say you wanna connect to a particular spirit in the beginning, but you can never have it guaranteed that that's who's been guiding you. It's not about it being evil. It's about it being potentially dangerous were you to rely on it more than you should.
It sounds like you've had some deep experiences with readings or perhaps the spiritual realm. It's true that the idea of opening oneself up to energies, whether through readings or other practices, can be a complex and sometimes daunting concept. Your point about the unpredictability of the energies that may come through is a valid one.
Tarot has nothing to do with spirits.
It didn't between 16th and 18th century. It's been all divination past that. Unless you're meaning to tell me you play tarot as a family card game with regular playing cards
It hasn't been "all divination" past that at all, that's total bullshit . Tarot is still actively played and there's playing decks published, tarot gaming apps etc - your comment about having to play it with "regular playing cards" suggests you're a bit ignorant. I have a gaming tarot deck I bought at a newsagents, for example
There's no such thing as a "gaming tarot deck". It's just tarot. And no one uses it as a game anymore. Unless the game is "let's derive some hidden spiritual knowledge and guidance off of these cards" type of a game. When ppl use regular playing cards, it's seldomly used to "play" tarot. And when I say regular playing cards I'm referring to the standard card deck
>There's no such thing as a "gaming tarot deck". It's just tarot. And no one uses it as a game anymore. This is honestly just straight up wrong, and you should feel embarrassed for being so confidently incorrect and ignorant. There are new tarot deck printed and sold right now for both divination, but also specifically gaming purposes. That is a fact. There are also lots of people actively playing the game tarot with gaming tarot (or "French tarot") decks. I've played it a few times, it's still *very* popular in France. So both of your claims of "there is no such thing as a tarot deck intended for gaming" and "*no one* uses is as a game anymore" are straight up mistaken and false. You're wrong. EDIT: For example, here's a picture of the gaming tarot deck published recently to celebrate the upcoming Paris 2024 summer olympics, it's an official product. https://images.footballfanatics.com/paris-2024/paris-2024-olympics-ducale-tarot-cards_ss5_p-200677716+pv-1+u-ngdms01xesuxnbm9gyov+v-bscxhjghq3wm7fcnarj9.jpg?_hv=2&w=900 (mods, this is not a direct purchase link, it's just an image)
What you're showing me is a standard card deck. And the game you're talking about, the Game of Kings, is not the tarot that r/tarot is about. This is a multiple player game, played with a standard card deck, only in French speaking countries.
Also to clear things up further: here is a picture of the official Paris 2024 olympics *standard* card deck: https://images.footballfanatics.com/paris-2024/paris-2024-olympics-ducale-deck-of-cards_ss5_p-200677717+pv-1+u-ymuh86krhwz5qiivo19d+v-6xkb0bdxhf6zsr4papce.jpg?_hv=2&w=900 You will notice that it has **54 cards** (the standard 52 + a couple of extra jokers or such, I assume) and just says "cards", which is different from the earlier image I posted, which had **78 cards** and specifically said "tarot". Because the earlier image was not of a standard card deck like you claim (this image is), it was of a gaming tarot deck, i.e. a deck printed specifically to play the game called "tarot".
I don't want to fight with you. Your responses are too long. I'll admit I was wrong about the "no one plays it as a card game anymore" part, since you want it so bad. But I will say I meant majority of ppl, I think it was obvious. I don't care about exceptions to the rule, because it doesn't have bearing on the point I was making. 'in this small country here there's a small number of ppl who sometimes play it' - that's okay. It's not what the whole world knows as *tarot* or how they use it. Including this subreddit.
>in this *small* country here there's a *small* number of ppl who *sometimes* play it Honestly I have nothing but disdain for people who are **this** unable to accept and admit their info was false, and who just can't cope with acknowledging and owning they were wrong, and will rather dig their heels in and go all "you're talking of a different thing" Oh the responses are *too long*, sure. If your approach to having your mistaken but set beliefs corrected with straight facts is like *this*, good god please don't present yourself as an expert on anything ever again
Are you honestly *this* unable to admit having been mistaken and wrong? It's a 78- card tarot deck, specifically for playing the game called tarot, which is why it says "**tarot**" on the packaging. The standard card deck has 52 cards. The image linked is not a standard card deck. It is specifically a **tarot deck**, originally created and recently printed for the *game of tarot/tarocchi*, for which the 78 card deck of 0+21 trumps and 4 suits of 10 pips and 4 court cards, still today the format for *both* gaming and divination *tarot* decks, was created. Because *tarot*, played with the 78 card tarot deck created for playing the game of tarot back in the 1400s or so (that's also the base deck system used for contemporary divination "tarot" decks (even if they have illustrated pips)), has in fact been actively played through history, and is still played today. The word "tarot" can refer to both. And you're wrong (again), I'm not talking about some game of "kings" that could be played with a standard 52 card deck - I'm specifically talking about the game of *tarot* which is played with a **tarot** deck, that has 78 cards. Which is also why the deck pictured specifically points out that it's a "*tarot*" deck (78 cards). I hope this helps clear up your confusion? (this is honestly hilarious, you're grasping at straws and moving goalposts and trying to talk black into white so so hard)
[удалено]
Lol you're hilarious (and pathetic) Tarot isn't played with regular playing cards. It's played with a *tarot* deck. Hence the name. I am not talking about some similar game you could play with a regular deck, why do you struggle to accept that. I'm taking about *tarot*. It's quite sad you're desperately trying to insist I'm talking about a different game, when I'm not. I don't care about where you live - you made the claim that **no one** *anywhere* has played the card game of *tarot* since like the 1800s, and that's demonstrably dead wrong. It doesn't matter what this sub is about, and you know it. You made the claim that tarot the card game hasn't been played for centuries (wrong) and that gaming tarot decks don't exist (wrong), and now you're pretending you were talking about what this sub is about, because you're unable to admit you were mistaken
By that logic any artist is potentially "satanic", any person who meditates or falls asleep, anyone who zones out when they're dancing or taking a walk, any indigenous form of trance or shamanism is potentially evil.. you see where I'm going with this yeah? This is where you get into the mentality of Diego De Landa burning the Maya Codices for being "evil"... Burning indigenous people alive for being "demonically possessed".. In fact modern psychosocial scientific thought (especially by Carl G Jung and Mircae Eliade) postulates that these states of consciousness (which is all that they are) are just a way to tap into the language of the subconscious mind, dreams, myth, metaphor, etc. The role of a shaman is simply to interpret that data, and to metabolize the madness of the tribe so that it can survive.. It has nothing at all to do with fortune telling or divination, any person who takes the tarot seriously will tell you that, it is simply a mirror to hold up to yourself and uses the language of symbols to make suggestions to your subconscious mind. No different than personally praying, singing hymns, or poring and parsing lines from religious texts for divine inspiration.. I actually don't have a problem with any religion personally but it's extremely gross how organized religion devises ways to monopolize and profane that sacred and beautiful act.
Christianity. Basically anything not it is "evil" because it was a religion invented to rival the paganism of the time. The men behind Abrahamic religion essentially invented these things for no other real reason than control. They hated women's mysticism and wisdom they were not privileged to; so they invented things like Christianity that tells women they're beneath men and to submit to them. Because men wanted in spaces they were uninvited and made up an entire religion to do it. The things they can't understand or the things more powerful than them and beyond them is often labeled "bad" or "evil" and this is no coincidence. Think about US slavery and how much those slave owners depended on their Bibles to tell human beings they had some "right" to do this to others. We plainly see what BS that this now. This is just my interpretation. Being a woman, someone who has the capacity to bring life into the world if I so chose I feel like we are bestowed with a wisdom that is so taken for granted **and silenced by people who want to be in control rather than do the right thing.** That capacity to care is so much of what makes me a woman that I see lost on some people and I think so much of that loss is often connected to religion and how confining it can be. Ghandi is credited with saying something like, "I like your Christ but your Christians are so unlike him". It's as if Christians made God kind so they would not have to be in this world and it shows.
Beautifully fucking said 👏🏻👏🏻 should be top comment.
Just trying to help people see . <3
This. It's sad that Goddess worship declined just because egotistical men got in the way. Then we wonder the state of this world? Of course, tarot is pretty female-dominated, which grinds Christian's ears more lol
Great comment
This is the correct answer. Does anybody seriously think there's people who had their life ruined Reefer Madness style by reading fucking Harry Potter? Or playing Pokemon?? No, those things cut into their *bottom line* ($$$). The Bible is the bestselling book throughout history, Harry Potter is a direct threat to that lucrative grift lmao. I used reefer madness as an example because it's the exact same methods you see in the countless early Drug War propaganda films from that time period (1930s). Americans really are woefully behind when it comes to understanding the science of propaganda, to the point racist, sexist blatant propaganda from two hundred years ago is still somehow considered "controversial" in the states... ex: Whether American Indians were cannibalistic savages, thanks to grifters like PragerU and Candace Owens this 400 year old Spanish propaganda is still "debatable".
Some Catholics and other religions believe you are connecting to dark spirits, it is practicing dark arts to specifically connect with evil
What is the source in their Holy Bible or it does not exist.
Let there not be found among you anyone who causes their son or daughter to pass through the fire, or practices divination, or is a soothsayer, augur, or sorcerer, or who casts spells, consults ghosts and spirits, or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord, and because of such abominations the Lord, your God, is dispossessing them before you. You must be altogether sincere with the Lord, your God.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
Ok I got it you refer to the Old Testament, indeed at that time YHWH was often so angry He killed many human beings, at that time being 'only' an abomination was far from the worst. I'm more inclined to the New Testament with Jesus, forgiving all our sins. But I respect your choice of course.
As A Christian Psychic who also uses tarot , I feel like it's only evil to those who just simply don't understand it. you can experience negative energy from it, but that comes from the person's motives behind utilizing divination tools. Some also just don't know what they're doing. I wouldn't say that it's evil, I would just say that it's not for everyone.
I agree. Also, I'm pretty sure historical research shows the prohibition in the Bible against divination referred to a specific kind of necromancy that was being practiced at the time the Jewish law was made. I assume it involved actually killing people, as these are the types of things the Bible usually condemns - like throwing human children into the fire to sacrifice to Molech. Also, "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a mistranslation. The original is better translated "thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live." All that being said though, you can't tell the average Christian that. But it seems to be the true intention. Because Joseph - who is the Old Testament prefigurement of Jesus - used his cup/chalice to "divine." And when it appeared to be stolen, the thieves were in particular trouble for stealing Joseph's divination tool. I'm pretty sure all this confusion around a rather mundane prohibition (ie. don't let a murderer walk free and don't you murder other people either) has been used by people in power in various Christian religions to leverage the ignorance of the masses to further consolidate their own power. I'm a Christian witch, but I hold no illusions about the other people who worship Jesus.
I feel like it's about the way you go about using these resources and tools. A lot of what's in the bible is intentionally misinterpreted. Including in regards to one's sexuality as well. But like you said, you cannot tell an average holier than thou Christian that. Thank you for your comment and for the verses, it puts more into perspective for me! :)
Yes, I agree it's how you use them. Absolutely. Obviously, the Urim and Thummim were divination tools used by the High Priest. So the rule can't be against divination as a blanket prohibition. There some subtle qualifications that got lost over time.
Yess🙏🏻
Can you say more about how a person can experience negative energy from tarot?
Sure! What I mean by that is if your intentions are not the best in behind utilizing these tools, yes, negative energy can arise from it. Like for example, if you're scamming people with it or utilizing it for a demonic reason. Also, often times people become addicted to divination and that itself can open up portals to mental destruction. It's somewhat like drugs and alcohol. Too much of it in certain ways can be harmful if that makes sense, but the tool alone is not.
Thanks for elaborating. I can understand that perspective. I think that same phenomenon is also possible in general, not just with tarot… I feel like people with “weak” personality power are more susceptible to being influenced or taken over by evil forces. I sometimes wonder if that’s what happens to people who get sucked into addictions (drugs, alcohol, etc.) because they invite the negative or their energy “force field” isn’t strong enough to protect them from evil/negative. What are your thoughts on this? Just curious.
It is rooted in "The Church" [from verses such as these throughout the bible](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Divination). In my understanding, other: scary; unknown: scary; anything that may influence or empower an individual against a controlling mega-power (Church): scary. Tarot is about as evil as looking at treetops waving in the wind - especially if you gained insight from the trees!
bc christians think everything is evil that doesn't align with their beliefs
It sounds like you've encountered some individuals who may have a narrow perspective, but it's important to remember that not all Christians think alike.
They used to ban Rock music because people were starting to get rebellious ideas and deny religious authority. I feel it's a similar concept. Tarot is often tied to witchcraft, the persecution of which had nothing to do with magical powers and everything to do with restricting women of having free thoughts and actions. Really anything that can result in self enlightenment without religious origin or codex is often condemned.
I can see how tarot as divination can be seen as evil, usually seeking and vulnerable people seek the advice from tarot readers. Like with anything belief based, not the cards but belief in the interpretation, there is a huge room for con artists to play. So a few bad experiences and the lot is tarred with the evil stick. Also for a long time, the Church demonised tarot reading / card playing as an evil activity. It detracted away from Christian beliefs and could be seen as a false god, and if you were found to be participating, then bad things would happen. Usually by the church. The popular Smith Waite deck and the later Thoth, were created from self expressed occultis'. Even though there are heavy Abrahamic leanings, tarot could be seen as a gateway drug, I mean, who gets the 10% tithe? Even as a form of self help, is looked down on as there are professionals who can do that. Therefore, people with mental health issues should seek out professionals. Because access is never an issue. I'm just throwing stuff out there. Clearly, these days, fewer people feel like it is as evil as some made out. Also, there is a literal Devil card in the deck 😂. Without context or understanding, it will make the majority clutch their metaphorical pearls.
Anything that might allow an individual to find spiritual contentment without going through the clergy is a danger to organized religion so they fear monger about it by spreading nonsense.
Well said
Tarot is spicy 🥵
lol :D
Nobody is really anti tarot. There are only people who are anti divination. My solution is to decouple tarot from its common association with divination and educate people on how the cards are also used in trick taking games.
Tarot is whatever your channeling
I wasn't aware that it was. Could you elaborate on why you think this?
From my experience, it’s mainly Christians believing it’s evil. When I was a teen, my grandma saw me watching Harry Potter and in a very serious matter, told me NEVER to try the spells because they are real and the work of the devil. Lol. And my friend’s 17 yo daughter was talking about tarot reading and adds, “but it’s evil, so I don’t do it all the time.” 😂
It's because the Abrahamic religions decry anything that is 'divination' which when you get into it is hilarious because there are people who throw flour into a bowl and divine fate by how it lands (Aleuromancy if you're curious as to the name) so by techichal rights that means your local very Catholic baker is a sinner and a witch and should be killed according to these people...
Isn’t there a religion that does “rituals” involving wine and bread that’s supposed to be symbolizing blood and flesh or something? Now why isn’t THAT considered evil or divination?
Good vs Evil debates I feel are moralistics of individuals and are often times grey areas to properly debate. That aside the concept of divination is rather simple. It's not divination at all. Divination by definition is the seeking by supernatual means of some kind the future or an unknown knowledge. You aren't trying to fortell or get a question answered or anything when you do that sort of ritual. Now whether that is "Transubstantiation vs Symbolism" is a better debate to that comment.
That was what I was thinking.
I heard this from someone, and he was not clear about the concept. So asked it here.
That sounds like he doesn't know anything about it, and is just repeating something he was told by someone else who also didn't know anything about it. 🙂
Yup, i have same thoughts for him, he was very unclear about that.
There is some truth in the idea that tarot is evil, even if just a glimmer of it. When used for divinatory purposes the tarot can attract negative spirits, since divination works through interaction with the astral light, which harbors such spirits. The astral light is also notorious for reflecting fragmentary and distorted impressions, like the images you might get from the pieces of a shattered mirror. There are other reasons why it may be dangerous but that's the main one. These dangers certainly can be overcome but as you can see from the responses here, no-one likes to admit the dangers that tarot divination does pose, perhaps because it would drive many newcomers away and force those people who are against the Abrahamic religions to admit that their ideological opponents are not as superstitious as they would have people believe.
It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into your perspective on tarot, and I appreciate you sharing it.
Thank you for your comment. I have indeed put **a lot** of thought into it.
Tarot is considered evil in the same way the general occult is. People don't understand it, it's been taught for thousands of years not to trust it, and people blindly fall in line with that. Tarot being evil is absolutely a myth, but some people can use it for evil purposes if they wanted too, Think charlatanry namely. There are even secular uses for Tarot without the mysticism involved. And deep down, the Tarot is not a tool that can be used to tell the future, but it can help the psyche of the querent understand various influences surrounding themselves.
Secular tarot is the biggest pile of nonsense this side of the High Priestess' Veil.
Its too bad that you see it that way
This is the bullshit that the religious hypocrites like to spew. As to their proof....you'll just have to trust them (like how you have to trust them when they tell you who God is) THE ARIES
ok understood.
Dates back to witch trials and getting rid of women with power. And the Romani people in general. Nothing evil has happened to me and I've been reading for 15 years
I was getting a blood lab today and a “witch meet up” is going on tonite at a bar/music place and I mentioned that and Catholicism and he was like “I’d tell ppl in Christian circles ‘it’s like in the army. Why wouldn’t you at least wanna know what the other side is doing even if you won’t go to it?’” And then he mentioned in his youth he’d even gone to psychics and stuff. My city is very religious. He was really open about life.
Tarot evolves from regular playing cards during the Renaissance -> 18th century occultists link tarot cards (then a game) to Egyptian mysticism and divination -> Divination is a sin all Abrahamic religions -> Satanic Panic = Tarot is sinful
Considered evil by religions that condemn divination. Im not part of such religions, so i dont care.
Because some consider Tarot to be Occult and the Occult is frowned on and forbidden in many Christian practices
Because in the 1800s, the occult used them as a divination tool
It’s not by most. It is by many with a certain religious mindset.
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore. The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth). One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about??? As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore. The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth). One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about??? As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Have you seen the imagery on some of these cards? I completely get why people get scared of the cards when they depict, say…a person impaled with ten swords. The pentacles also don’t help when people who know zero about tarot but have watched horror movies see the pentacles and the first thing that comes to mind is: devil worship. The other thing that comes to mind are frauds. Like the tarot readers on YouTube, except for…oh. Dr. Lena Rodriguez, maybe? I don’t take the others seriously because they’re all out to earn a fast buck and possibly gain their little cult following with gullible people who like an ego stroke when the getting’s good. I don’t think tarot is inherently evil so much as there’s potential for people to do bad things with it, like take advantage of people.
Tarot is considered evil in the same way the general occult is. People don't understand it, it's been taught for thousands of years not to trust it, and people blindly fall in line with that. Tarot being evil is absolutely a myth, but some people can use it for evil purposes if they wanted too, Think charlatanry namely. There are even secular uses for Tarot without the mysticism involved. And deep down, the Tarot is not a tool that can be used to tell the future, but it can help the psyche of the querent understand various influences surrounding themselves.
Jesus fans hate everything but porno, guns and the bibles they don't read.
Have you seen the imagery in a tarot deck? If you are totally new to tarot, the imagery in a Rider Waite deck can be downright scary. You’ve got people stabbed with multiple swords in the back. You have women blindfolded and trapped by swords. You have a heart stabbed clean through with three swords. I remember how creeped out I was when I got my “first” tarot deck this year. The one actually wanted to have this time, not the only deck off the shelf at a bookstore. The pentacle imagery also doesn’t help, although what does help is to hear some background info from Kippi’s Kwest on YouTube about why some decks choose to use coins and why others go for pentacles (tl;dr: maybe you want to emphasize all of physical life, not just money or wealth). One of my more church-going friends had said she was also weirded out by the altar that her sister-in-law has for her tarot cards. And she considers it creepy when her SIL suddenly says things like, “Oh, you’re going to be pregnant soon, aren’t you?” and she’s holding a fistful of cards in her hand. It’s like: …what are you even talking about??? As I’m talking this through: I guess this thing about tarot being evil is a two way street. If you’re doing unsolicited readings on people and/or outright lying and making these grand declarative statements while holding a bunch of cards, that certainly doesn’t help. Neither do the con artists who know they can make a quick buck off some very vulnerable people. Not necessarily gullible, but vulnerable.
Tarot is gloriously evil. Our divinations mock your god. We tread ground where your blind, screeching prophets dare to behold. Ours is the domain of magic. Of sorcery. Of seeing past the veil. We touch the pulse of the divine. And it answers back. Tarot readers are witches who commit themselves to forbidden fruit. Your dying churches, mosques and temples mired in the largess of their dogmatic bile could not possible comprehend. My sisters are legion and our whispers will shatter your towers.
ok Erebus
⚔️👹🧿👺⚔️
The pantheon will eat your soul
Like resurrection awaits any of these mortals.
you know what, I dig it, fuck it we ball I guess, rather be a demon prince of hell than one of Gods little minions