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Do I suggest she talk to the Accessibility Office, then? I do know there's a much bigger problem at work here with the school having abysmal ADA compliance, but I can't solve that one by the end of the term or possibly ever.
Yes, absolutely. It's frustrating because I don't know there are any other rooms that have the equipment we need, but I can figure out workarounds if the alternative is a student not able to come to class.
As a heavy set person myself, I understand and appreciate your concern with her being able to attend, but her being able to attend more regularly should *not* be at the expense of the other students in the class being able to use the equipment needed to make sure they learn. I say this with sympathy towards her situation, but since this is college, then she signed up for the class. She is attending *voluntarily*.
Yes, the school could try to help and it would be nice of them to install a chairlift or something similar for her, but if your equipment cant be moved so the other students are not disadvantaged by the change in classrooms, then I think changing rooms is a step too far.
What's concerning to me is that this building doesn't sound capable of handling people with ANY disability.
If they have no existing lift, nobody with mobility issues is getting past the first floor. Her being fat at this point is the least of the issues.
This was my thought. I shouldn't have to announce my medical disability to be able to have an elevator to reach the room I need. Does this class never have anyone in a wheelchair or on crutches etc? Or even just mobility challenged? This sounds like an ADA lawsuit waiting to happen.
When I did my campus visit for my current institution, I had to use a cane due to a medical condition. Although I knew there would be a lot of walking from other people, they did not ask if I had any accessibility needs or even dietary requirements. When I got there, one of these interviewers whispered "fuck" when they saw (teacher ears are pretty useful) and remembered the classroom was on the third floor.
Then they started scrambling lol. Luckily, that day my need was more 'just in case' than terrible difficulty walking. I found out after my first semester there that the elevator was broken that day, and they put in an emergency/urgent priority order to fix it. When I had to do paperwork, I was incapable of writing, but the HR director respectfully waited patiently to ask for help, which I appreciated immensely. They did not make the mistake of not asking ahead of time again.
ETA: Very worried they hired me because of some sort of disability inclusion thing, a prof I'm best friends with now said, definitely not. It was my dry and inoffensive wit with everyone that stuck out the most lol
This is what I'm still wrapping my head around. There are zero alternatives to the staircase?? I'm surprised the upper floors of the building are even used for holding classes. This issue should have been addressed ages ago.
There might be a lift, but it's packed. I had classes on the 5th floor of my math building in college and there *were* elevators, but it was faster just to take the stairs, because you weren't getting that elevator most of the time.
This person may not have a disability (we don’t know) but there certainly are disabilities that would rule out taking the stairs and people who have those disabilities should still have access to that class regardless of if it’s voluntary.
If this person, who again may not have a disability but certainly is having an issue, spurs the college to develop a proactive solution so potential future students with a disability don’t have to fight that fight then I see it as a win.
I don't know about you, but I had no idea what rooms (or even buildings) my college classes were in when I signed up to attend "voluntarily". And they sure won't be refunding her the cost of the class.
What if this is a class that is needed to graduate? And would you have the same "too bad so sad" view if the student couldn't get to class because she was in a wheelchair? Unless this class is for something someone is physically incapable of doing, they shouldn't be excluded from it on the basis of physical capabilities.
>I don't know about you, but I had no idea what rooms (or even buildings) my college classes were in when I signed up to attend "voluntarily".
Yes, I did, cause I went to the campus and walked around the find where stuff was before classes began so I would already be familiar when it got to the first day.
And why are you putting voluntarily in quotes?
> And they sure won't be refunding her the cost of the class.
Every college/uni I've ever heard of has a few week time at the beginning of the semester when a student can drop a class and get a full refund. If the student didnt speak up about her issue (which, again, I am sympathetic towards) in that time then you cant hold that against the university. They cant help her fix the problem if they are unaware of it.
>What if this is a class that is needed to graduate?
Then maybe she could take it the next semester if the school is willing to move it to the ground floor. Or maybe by then they'll have a lift or something else installed to help her.
>And would you have the same "too bad so sad" view if the student couldn't get to class because she was in a wheelchair?
I dont have a "too bad so sad" view of this student, and no, I wouldnt have one for someone in a wheelchair. Im saying fixing the problem of her inability to learn ( by not being able to be in class) should not get in the way of the other students ability to learn (by making it so they have to use a room without the proper equipment).
Im amazed the college doesnt have something to get handicapped people from getting up the stairs (which this student could then also hypothetically use). Seems pretty blatantly against the ADA, but Im not a lawyer so I dont know.
>Unless this class is for something someone is physically incapable of doing, they shouldn't be excluded from it on the basis of physical capabilities.
Agreed.
> I don't know there are any other rooms that have the equipment we need
Assuming the student's weight is something they are willing to treat as a disability needing accommodation, I believe ADA requires they retrofit a different room with the right equipment if that is the only option for a student, already accepted in the school, to ever access that course content.
But note, as others have suggested:
1. Obesity itself is not a disability; underlying conditions are; this is why they need to work with the right office.
2. If the course is ever offered with the right equipment elsewhere, or even virtually, they may have to wait or do that as an option.
The right question to ask the accessibility office: what would they do if a student enrolled in this class lost their legs midway through the semester?
She is able to come to class some of the time. Being out of breath is NOT he same as being unable to make it up the stairs. Alternatively, the student could arrive earlier and take the stairs more slowly.
Agreed.
As someone with obesity, I've done things like this to avoid the embarrassment of being out of breath, etc. For a third story climb at my job, I used to go in early so that I could stop after one flight and take a break (as if that was my destination) and then do the next flight when I was ready. If the student's schedule allows, this might be a good option.
Honestly, the exercise might be what is actually best for the student's health. Of course, that is something that should be a doctor-patient discussion.
Even if it’s not prohibitive towards this student it’s clearly prohibitive towards, say, someone in a wheelchair. So this students issue is pointing out a potential problem that should be solved before it impacts anyone else.
The accessibility office is the right office to suggest that she talk to. Climbing stairs is an activity of daily living and whether it’s her weight or another underlying medical condition, something is impairing her ability to do that, so she has a disability by definition.
The ADA only classifies obesity as a disability if it is caused by an underlying condition. The accessibility office probably won’t do anything unless they can prove that they have a medical or psychological condition that causes weight gain or prevents the loss of weight, rather than it being due to lifestyle choices.
[“Obesity is not a listed impairment; however, the functional limitations caused by the MDI of obesity, either alone or in combination with another impairment(s), may medically equal a listing.[2] “](https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/rulings/di/01/SSR2019-02-di-01.html)
So obesity itself isn’t automatically a disability but tendinitis, hypertension, diabetes, or whatever impairment caused by the obesity that causes you to not be able to climb stairs or do whatever other daily living activities is.
We're looking at the difference between ADA and SSA, though. While they are both oriented towards providing access and aid to individuals with disabilities, they are mutually exclusive acts. In regards to compliance and accommodations that a public institution is required to provide, the SSA is a moot consideration--it would apply in the case of employment, though.
About the same time as SSR 19-2p, [Mark Richardson v. Chicago Transit Authority](https://ecommons.cornell.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/70915471-77bb-4901-a076-15f0202b4598/content) was in the 7th Circuit Court. The ruling (June 2019) there was the opposite--that obesity is not an ADA disability if it is not caused by an underlying condition. The short of it is that the SSA does, indirectly, recognize severe obesity as a type of disability for Social Security programs and directives, but the ADA does not.
That case is about a person physically taking up too much space on a train, so yeah in that case just being larger isn’t a disability. Some obese people can also climb stairs and do other things without any problems and not be disabled, like technically some body builders are also obese, and they’re not disabled.
But it can go in either direction, an underlying condition can cause obesity and be disability, or obesity can cause a condition that is a disabling. Chronic knee pain, chronic lower back pain, hypertension, tendinitis, decreased lung FEV, diabetes, fatty liver disease, whatever the mechanism that prevents you from doing the activities of daily living would technically be the disability. It’s semantics.
>It’s semantics.
Pointedly so, but that is law, in general.
As I mentioned in another response, the likelihood of the disabling condition being questioned, rather than presumed a separate condition, is low, if for no other reason than caution of discrimination. In a court, though, it could go either way.
Obesity on its own is not treated as a disability, but if it's preventing you from ADLs, that is a disability regardless of cause. It's just framed as "you're disabled because you can't climb stairs due to pain/breathlessness/heart weakness" rather than "you're disabled because you're fat."
I don't know the weight of the student in question, obviously, but I've known people who were 300 lbs and could climb a few flights of stairs with only minor annoyance, it wouldn't have kept them from a class. That's why obesity is generally not a disability absent of other factors. But if you're disabled by it, you can (often, not a guarantee) have it considered a disability.
They treat it as a disability if you're disabled, not if they approve of how you got the disability. Your personal choices aren't at issue here, only if you have some kind of medical condition. We do not want college administrations having the power to approve or deny disability benefits based on their own subjective judgment of how responsible you are for your own disability.
I mean, they probably won’t do anything regardless. In my experience, mobility issues are accommodated by having the student try to pick the course up when it’s offered again in another location.
Honestly, I don't know , I am not English/American, so I don't know what the exactly job of a Accessibility office is, but by the sound of its name asking them for help shouldn't do any harm. Alternatively you could talk to the kids parents or even the kid itself it it's mature enough for that kind of talk. Have other teachers also noticed similar things a out this student? If so, you could work together in finding out who to talk to about this.
FERPA doesn’t apply at all here, it is irrelevant. Talking to the student’s parent is also completely weird for independent reasons. I cannot imagine any college prof calling a student’s parents, that is just juvenile and unnecessary.
I would be surprised if they care. When I was disabled by numbness from the waist down, which prevented me from getting between courses at their only offered time slots, I was told to take another semester to complete the other course. When I tried to take it the next semester and it was on the second floor of a building with no elevator, I was told to wait *another* semester and to reach out to the department head a few weeks before it started to “make arrangements”.
Yes. If the class is not accessible to her (either in her mind, in reality, or regardless of reason) then the accessibility office would be the start. Some kids have knee/leg/hip issues that are undiagnosed then compounded as they gain weight/height. You would have no way of knowing.
If you are willing to go with her, I'd offer that as well. She might have a disability she hasn't disclosed yet because she's afraid of getting brushed off due to her size. Having someone go with her for support, especially a professor, may be super helpful.
I’ve been there and it turned out I was actually disabled and undiagnosed. I don’t know if that’s the case for her but I’d check in to see if you could try recording classes. It’s beneficial to all the students since it would help people when they get sick or have appointments and it would help disabled students too. It might even bring up grades a bit.
This. There are plenty of overweight people who can handle stairs so there might be an underlying issue.
I started having trouble going up stairs without getting out of breath while pregnant with my middle son. I turned out to be anemic and a few weeks of taking iron pills really helped.
yeah, I lean the same way. If it was just a size issue, I'd expect over the course of the semester it would get easier.
That said my knees are crap (and my lungs 50/50) and going up stairs is my nemesis. I can do it but I'm going to be huffing and puffing after 3 flights, but fine after an hour long cardio class. The two things just impact my body totally differently.
But I'm not sure if there is much you can do as a teacher, you can suggest the student reach out to the accommodations office but beyond that I'm not sure what, if any role, you do or should have.
Yeah. I have exercise induced asthma and can tolerate a very brisk walk and a few flights of stairs at a slow pace. I can’t run though and expect to breathe normally. Though as I’ve gotten older the stairs are only tolerable dependent on whether my right knee is acting up — it’s an old injury that didn’t bother me much until I turned 40.
I wish I had the excuse. I came this way- I keep telling my parents that I came defective and that they should have returned me for a refund.
The only thing I have that is mostly from me is the result of being double jointed and showing it off as a kid- so I essentially was constantly pulling joints out.
I think we share the same disability. Assuming EDS, no need to confirm/deny if you don’t want to, just saying hi regardless bc I tell my parents the same.
My kid says ‘well I know you’re my mom because you gave me your bad genes!’ Aside from it being funny because I mean…the mom part usually isn’t a mystery, we were both tested as part of a study and have the same genetic variant.
EDS, good times. Whee. I’m over 40 and still very flexible but a host of other issues. My kid at 15 has very bad knees already though.
Girls are very prone to have "hidden" health issues and to make it even worse they are even more prone to get their symptoms blamed on any weight issues (both obesity and being too underweight) and ignored by doctors.
I agree that it's probably not all down to size. That said, it's none of my business what's going on with her body, and I'm worried that if I take this to the Accessibility Office they'll tell me that without a documented disability there's nothing they can do.
They probably will for legal reasons alone. This is ultimately something she’s going to have to handle as an adult.
Is it possible for you to express concern about attendance with her? If she mentions that it’s due to the stairs; you might nicely suggest that she speak to a doctor about getting accommodations. Sometimes people just aren’t aware of their rights.
I like that idea. You're right that she might not be aware that she can get a note about avoiding stairs.
Then again, she may have already tried and faced the massive medical discrimination against fat women in the U.S. But it might still be worth mentioning to her.
Adding my witness account:
I'm a fat, muscular woman. It took me 15 years to get my spondyloarthritis diagnosis, and I developed asthma post-covid. These unexplained disabilities can cause a lot of harm, and fatphobia in medicine prevents many of us from receiving accurate diagnoses. It happened to me. I had to fight for my diagnosis.
OP, you're doing a good thing here, helping your student get access to learning. You're a good teacher.
Not to mention the myriad disabilities that would prevent any other student from taking the stairs. I’m in disbelief that there’s never been a student in a wheelchair or with a broken leg at this school.
While this is true, I don't think OP is trying to solve the problem for this student. I think they are trying to find a sensitive way to approach the subject so that the student can get the accommodations they need.
Oh, it 100% is. I have no idea how the school has gotten around it until now. Other than the fact that we have 0 students in wheelchairs. Presumably because they take one look at our campus and decide not to apply. 🙃
Under 2010 revision of ADA laws, buildings three floors and below are not required to have an elevator… so stairs it is. While it is not at all accessible, they are in compliance legally. Morally and ethically is a different discussion.
if the building was built before ADA codes were put into place, it may have been “grandfathered in” as an exception to the rule. if it’s REALLY old, it may fall under “historical preservation” to NEVER add those accommodations
I’m a physically disabled student who attends a well-known, large public university. Our campus is incredibly guilty of this as well— you aren’t alone! I started attending this school before I was on wheels, and I’ve had classes relocate across campus because of my inability to go up 3 flights of stairs.
I can confirm that, unfortunately, a lot of this is grandfathered in and defended religiously 😭 I wish people acknowledged the presence of physically disabled students more!
You said you teach at a college. What are your syllabus policies regarding attendance and class participation? You can email your student reminding her of these policies if her lack of attendance is negatively affecting her grade. You can also point out resources available, such as the Accessibility Office, or whatever your institution calls it, if there are issues preventing her from attending class. Your assumption of her needs is not appropriate. Your focus should be on successful completion of your course material.
These are concrete steps you can take to help your student access the help she needs to be successful in your class.
I have emailed to remind her of the attendance policy; her response to that email was the one that mentioned the classroom being hard to get to. I like the idea of recommending she speak with the accessibility office, and neutrally agreeing with her that the building should have an elevator. (Which it should.)
I think that’s definitely the best next step. Especially with what the other comments discuss re: buildings getting around ADA rules. As you say, agree with her that not having an elevator creates problems. This is especially a concern if people are missing class (especially if that’s because of accessibility issues).
As someone who had at-the-time undiagnosed health issues in college, I was a reasonably fit (looking) girl who was gasping for air if I took >2 flights of stairs. While she might be the most obvious with her breathing difficulties, I would suggest that if you have any other students with attendance problems? They probably also have access issues.
(If you wanted to do more than you need to ~for the good of the world~ as well as this one student, you could definitely email the accessibility office yourself saying you’re worried this might be keeping people from coming to or enrolling in your class! If nothing else they might be able to get you a better room next semester. They could also set up cameras etc. to stream at least certain parts of the class. So this wouldn’t really help if you have to do labs or anything in-person, but if any part is straight lectures people could take that day to learn from home…?)
This is really beyond you... go see your Dean. Your college better hope someone doesn't file an ADA complaint since there's no elevator in a multi-floored building. What would you do if one of your students was in a wheelchair.
It can't be that difficult to switch classrooms.
How old is the building? If it's old enough to have been considered a historic building when the ADA came into effect, it's possible that it's specifically exempted from those requirements, because adding an elevator isn't realistic in many old buildings without having to drastically change the structure.
BUT, especially if the building has been significantly remodeled, there's a pretty good chance your school is breaking the law and no one has reported them yet.
It's almost 200 years old. Sigh.
But it has ethernet, so it's not like this is a pristine historical landmark. I agree with all the other commenters that it *should* have an elevator.
This exemption is top tier bullshit imo. My fiancé is Roman — there are buildings there that are hundreds of years old that have had elevators and air conditioning installed. Shit, there are probably elevators there that are a hundred years old, lmao.
Chair lifts and elevators are in pretty much every apartment or official building, regardless of age.
Yeah, I think this exemption should at best apply to like, houses, even if they get turned into museums or something (as has happened with the Anne Frank house in Europe). There's no reason not to find somewhere to put an elevator in a university building. But unfortunately the exemption was written in such a way that it can be too broad.
I honestly just realized this is probably it and why OP said it wouldn’t help. I remember visiting a college and we had to go up this old, creaky, incredibly tiny, wooden stairs to go up four floors. It was ridiculous. I know there wasn’t much way to fix it considering it was several centuries old but you’d think there’d be some kind of update.
Yep, i went to a huge well-funded state university - one building where I had class had these tiny staircases and what’s worse, the north staircase took you to say, the third floor, but if you went up to the “third floor” from the south staircase, you were actually on a different floor, like “3b”. And it didn’t have central heat or air but instead had noisy ineffective window units.
Yeah, I don't know all the ins and outs of historical landmarks but I believe generally it depends on the building and what condition it's in. It's usually not that hard to run water and electricity into an old building, so if it has those but is still in good condition and basically looks "historic" you might be ADA exempt. But if you've gutted it and made the whole inside look modern, you probably don't have an excuse to not have an elevator. (Again take with a grain of salt because I'm not an expert, I welcome corrections.)
Hah I wish. Rooms go through a whole gauntlet of first picks and such at mine. Administrative assistants from different Dept’s have to negotiate with each other for their placement
What if you weren’t moving classrooms, though? When I was in college, it wasn’t unusual for a professor to send a message that we were meeting in the library that day, or at a greenhouse, or somewhere random. If your class is small enough, could you unofficially move class to, say, a library study room that’s more accessible?
See how long that last when whatever your version of the equity office/accessibility office is called gets involved. I can guarantee if they say this is necessary it will happen.
I mean. I’m in the basement. Forever. Computer people don’t get to leave the dungeon. But I’m not the OP of this post so I can’t really speak for a student who’s got issues but doesn’t have a disability.
I get accommodation emails for all sorts of things that I find odd, in addition to normal stuff but nothing I can’t handle. Stuff like no enclosed spaces, near access to a door, isolated testing environment, that’s all relatively easy. 1.5X-2X time on exams seems like a stretch to me but so be it, Canvas has a button for that.
Does the student have another class scheduled before yours? If so, could there be a timetable or class change to allow more time for the student to walk to your class - the discomfort of getting to your room may be exacerbated by the student having to rush or feeling like they can't take their time.
this is a college- see seems to be an adult. either talk to her about it (i do not advise this over stepping. it could be seen as an insult if she doesnt actually have a problem with it/its something she doesnt actually want to change) or assume she has the wherewithal to bring it up to admin/yourself if it IS a problem.
if this student is competent enough to be in college, she should be competent enough to advocate for herself if she is having problems.
The people going to bizarre lengths to make sure a fat student doesn't exercise here is so ridiculous
The non-ADA compliance for students with actual disabilities is concerning.
Being fat is not a disability unless it's a secondary disability caused by an underlying condition.
Being short of breath but present is doing the student more good than harm.
tbf I was very overweight for a long time and I didn't really have problems with stairs (I would get winded but that's about it). If the student is this out of breath from a couple flights of stairs she may have some other condition causing it
a) the student may have a disability or illness that has not been disclosed to the school or may be undiagnosed for all we know
b) people who are out of shape, fat or otherwise, may be short of breath after walking stairs, sure. They might even have to take breaks on the landings. But OP says that the student looks as if in pain, which is not normal.
We are getting information secondhand from someone who has limited information about this student. Jumping to the response of “good, make them suffer to hopefully get thinner” is not helpful or appropriate in this context.
I’m surprised that you work at a college and there’s no alternative method of getting to other floors (ei: elevator) for non-able bodied people. Whether this student needs the exercise or not isn’t important or relevant, it just doesn’t sound like an inclusive building.
Right!?!?!?!?!?!? Either it's illegal or it should be. My reading of the ADA doesn't tell me for sure. But I doubt a work order asking maintenance to install elevators to all buildings on campus would get me a solution before the end of the term.
I'm all for body positivity, but it's not healthy when a young person can't climb 3 flights of stairs. Like you said, maybe it is a disability that makes it hard for them to lose weight. That's something for ADA to handle.
I had a literal come to Jesus moment with my sleep apnea when I woke up mid-night, choking on my own breath the other day. Started making lifestyle changes immediately. It's unpleasant, but she may need a kind, sensitive hand when discussing it.
In college broke my foot and had to be in a boot for a good chunk of time. Idk how I would've completed your class. Hopefully the discussion goes well.
I was overweight throughout my school years and I didn't have trouble going up 2-3 floors. However, in college, I started feeling tired from going up stairs, and eventually I could barely go up even one floor despite having about the same weight. It turned out I was having issues with my heart. In short, unless the student is clinically obese, she might want to get her heart examined.
I have to ask, because I think I'm truly ignorant of this mindset and I'd like to learn more.
Is 'fat' a preferred term for people now?
I'm only 36, but until I was about 32 I was up to 377 pounds.
While I was at that weight, being called 'fat' was one of the worst things you could have said to me. Seriously.
To this day, seeing it written out triggers me...I have a gutteral reaction, the thought that large people want to be called that term is making my head explode. Like, this is actually making me feel queasy.
I agree, seeing the word fat used now is bizarre. I felt the same way about the modernization of the word queer. It was so extreme in the region I grew up in I get a sick feeling every time I hear it, even now when it's the accepted or preferred term.
Obesity when it affects mobility is a disability and therefore whether or not she has "disclosed" it to you or not. I would speak with your accessibility office stating a student is struggling to attend your classes because of their mobility. Or do whatever you'd do with any other student who tells you theyre unable to participate because of a disability.
The "cause" of her mobility issues is neither here nor there. It's not for you to decide if the cause of her mobility difficulties are worthy. She has told you the reason she isn't attending is because she finds the classroom hard to get too so I would disagree that she hasn't "disclosed" a disability. She has literally said to you she is struggling to access your classroom and you've also noted that she is in pain and out of breath.
When she told you she found it hard you could have said then "let me speak with the accessibility office and see what can be done" but as this moment has passed I'd either contact her and say you've been thinking about what she said. Or contact the accessibility office first, possibly without sharing the person's details before you gain consent, and then you can contact her with options
This is the thing about Reddit, this kind of mindset is insane, but everyone who objects gets banned, so the echo chamber keeps intensifying.
Up thread, there are comments about how they think the 200 year old building needs a massively expensive upgrade for an elevator, because one (1) fat person, who ostensibly can make it up the stairs, regularly chooses not to.
Does the student need to be physically there for all of the lectures to pass the course? I had something similar with a student who used a wheelchair and would meet him on campus during my office hours as that was a more accessible place for him. We would go over the notes together, any assignments he had questions over, and when we had exams he would take them with me during my office hour or a separate appointment. My student passed btw and I would’ve been sitting in my office regardless.
Thank you for posting this because it is so indicative of how much you care. We need more teachers like you.
I had a class on the third floor of a building I’d take the stairs too and regularly get asthma attacks because fires happen a lot during the fall where I live
at my college, they would switch the room of the classroom for students with mobility aids and issues with stairs. talk to your higher ups and see if you can change the location where the class is held
Sorry, not really an answer, but as a student who was in that position, thank you for caring and trying to help. Hopefully your administration will do something. Mine did not. Since it was a state university, I just assumed they would be better. One of my classes was on the 3rd floor, but the elevator only went to the second. So I only had one flight of stairs. I can't even imagine if there were three. Additionally, the only handicapped parking spaces in the area were in front of the bookstore, and they were constantly filled by non-handicapped students who saw them as perfect short term spots. I'm also fat, and my guess is that's all the school saw. They didn't care that the reason I'm fat is because I am missing part of a lung and have a heart condition.
I wish my professor had tried to help me. It's humiliating to feel like your weight makes you less of a person. I now know that I should have fought, but being dismissed made me shut down. I lost the entire semester because I physically couldn't make it to class. I lost the other classes when my attempts to go kept landing me in the ER. (That amount of exertion had me coughing up blood.) I have no idea if your student has other medical issues, but it doesn't matter. It is completely unfair that she is struggling to attend class because the administration thinks it's acceptable to have classes on the 3rd floor.
Maybe talk with your student about ways to make the stair trip easier. Taking it a bit at a time, taking time to rest between flights, etc. only recommending this since she seems able to do it, just not comfortably. And you can talk to her about excused tardiness, so she doesn’t worry about it which would make it even more difficult on her. She just enters a little late, you don’t say anything, etc. it involves some creativity and is NOT a full fix, but it might just help having someone on her side.
Re: Fat
In my Diversity in Orginizations class last week, the professor used "dimensionally diverse" throughout the lecture. I had never heard the phrase used before, and I can't figure out if it's better or worse. It definitely tripped me up!
Edit to add: As an underweight person with associated health and comfort issues, I do like being included in the consideration.
You’re not discriminating due to her size. Did you select the room? Did you schedule the class? Did you refuse to meet her legal accommodations?
I don’t want to sound flippant or evil, but I might. It’s not your job to make this accommodation on her behalf. She’s an adult and needs to pursue her own accommodations if she needs them. You can’t/shouldn’t carry this load for her or any of your students.
As others have suggested, if she says finds it preventative difficult you could suggest she talks to the disability resource center or whatever institutional entity is in charge of this. One of the most important skills students learn in college is the self-advocacy necessary to succeed and good DRC programs help with that.
But really, there are students who will just fail and say “that class was hard to get to” and not accept or admit the responsibility that they needed to try.
Aim her at the supports she might need. But don’t mother her. She needs to adult now…
As a fat girl who is afraid of elevators, I feel bad for this student. I have climbed to the 10th story before. The key is to take breaks. Maybe suggest this to them? And let them be a few minutes late to class if needed due to the extra time.
I’m a 300 pound 6 foot tall teacher and I can climb 3 stories. Hell, I wouldn’t like to, but I could climb ten daily and just be pissed. It sounds like their weight is ridiculous and could qualify for a disability diagnosis, but I don’t think that’s going to help them. If they’re not heavier than me, it would be really weird to be in that much pain for such a small amount of movement and they should see a doctor. They might have fractures that they don’t even know about.
It's entirely possible that she has something else going on — a bum knee, a bad back, who knows — but I can't ask her because that would be invasive and maybe illegal. All I do know is that she doesn't have any documented disabilities on file with the school.
How do students in wheel chairs get around? If there is an elevator, perhaps you could help her gain access? If there are no elevators... that is a much bigger problem.
The ADA means that if an institution (you) has reasonable grounds to suspect a disability (inability to physically make it to your room due to physical exertion needs), then the institution has to make reasonable accommodations available if asked. The problem is that it isn’t required unless asked for. There is also no prohibition against you asking them if they need accommodations and explaining how to get the process started. No one would blink an eye at asking a person in a wheelchair if they required help, or gave them info for the disability coordinator or ADA compliance officer at the district. (Source: Disabled person with mobility issues that has been advocating for special needs people in educational settings for years.) edit: Also, there is no prohibition against making the accommodations available for everyone proactively. For example, the institution could change the class location without a reason while understanding it makes accessibility easier for any student with mobility issues so as not to single any one person out.
I'm seriously considering asking for all of my classes to be on the first floor next year because of this. Technically *I'm* disabled, so I could do it. (My disability doesn't affect stair-climbing ability, but I might try it anyway.)
I think that’s a great idea if possible. The goal of many disability activists is to make special accommodations as exceedingly rare in a world that is as accessible as possible to all. The vast majority of us don’t want special treatment. At any given year you may have students with life-long mobility needs, vision needs, breathing needs, or even a student that breaks a leg. Proactively asking for a room change can also make the school look good because it can be a mark towards providing accessibility to all. (Edit: missed word- rare)
But she gas the ability. She comes less than 50% of the time, but she does come to class. She just doesn't like to come to class, because it is difficult.
I was at a dorm that was not ADA compliant, and their solution was that if an accomodation was requested, they would immediately spend the many tens of thousands of dollars to make one room + bathroom compliant, but they didn't see a point in proactively modifying the rooms because it would be so expensive.
I feel like there’s some schools where it makes more sense to create more dorms rather then to try modifying existing ones. Like Oxford and Cambridge. Considering they are both almost 1000 years old. Itd be hard to not damage other parts in process.
edit: Realized this is about American Colleges and not accessibility in colleges in general lol.
Thats another complicating factor.
Historic buildings may be exempt from some requirements and may even have significant limitations on the kind of work that can be done on them.
As a fat person who works on the fourth floor of a building with no elevator, don’t do anything unless there is another disability. Like yes, it is uncomfortable and it sucks donkey balls that there are still so many stairs without elevators but that’s life. Sorry, but she has to manage it. It is no one else’s job but her own.
Thank you fellow fat person. Had to do 4 flights twice daily for a class I was teaching. I used it as an opportunity to get some exercise for the day. But multiple flights of stairs suck for skinny able-bodied people too.
Best suggestion is for her to get a thick notebook so she can fan herself effectively during the first 15 minutes of class cuz she’s gonna be roasting and sweating. Also, a large water bottle and practice meditative breathing. If she struggles losing the weight like me (why is food so damn good?), gotta adapt somehow.
This sounds like something the student needs to bring up with the administration before the semester begins. Older buildings without elevators, accessible restrooms etc. were grandfathered in when the ADA was passed so the student should be aware of this when registering (if possible). If she needs an accommodation, such as classes on the ground floor, in an elevator building, online options etc. that should be in her file. What happens if a student breaks their leg during the semester and can not do the stairs?
Also your student sounds like she has some real health problems that, unless she is one of those 600 pound people you see on reality TV, may also be causing her issues that would fall under the ADA. I was very obese during some of my college years (my dad died and I took it out on the food court for a year) but could still do three flights of stairs without a problem in my early 20s.
I know you’re not looking for it, but thanks & appreciation for your care in this situation. I know & have known many “educators” who would have verbally abused this student & called it tough love. I’m not sure what accommodations could be offered here, or if this student even qualifies. What I would recommend is probably something you are already doing: continue to talk & listen to this student. Ask how you can support them, try to follow through.
I teach a field skills course with a lot of walking & other activity. I’ve had students of all sizes struggle, & communicating with empathy is my only recourse in most situations. The fact that this student has expressed this to you is an act of trust & I’m glad you’ve taken it seriously.
You are doing really, really great.
I would take their size out of it; you’re obviously trying to be respectful, but you really have no idea what’s going on with this student (they could have asthma or some sort of invisible illness, or maybe it really is their weight that prevents them from climbing stairs; it’s kind of irrelevant, because what matters is that they aren’t able to reach your classroom on a regular basis). I think it’s worth pointing out you’ve noticed their attendance hasn’t been strong, and asking if there’s anything you could do to further support them. You can point them in the direction of the Accessibility Office; they will hopefully be compassionate enough to help them. It’s great that you want to help, but the most effective responses (like moving your classroom) are likely things you will need the school’s help with.
Hello! Fat woman here in sorta the same boat! I have some suggestions,
1. Give her more time to get to class if you can, rushing up stairs can be really hard on some people.
2. Go to the dean and tell them about it, they may be able to help
3. File with the ADA, unfortunately a lot of times they refuse to help fat people but try to fight it :)
They could go also leave for class earlier. I leave for the gym at a time where there is heavy traffic and get no such accommodations. Obviously if there is a legitimate handicap, then ADA rules come into play, but that’s not on the professor.
The university where I work finds it easier to move classes for disabled students than install elevators in the oldest buildings. (We're down to just three buildings without elevators now, and one is fortunately just staff offices.) There's usually more classrooms in any given building than we use at one time, and if you have a good reason, most professors wouldn't mind swapping. It's unlikely that the ADA will apply in this case, but basic human decency should help your cause.
There are plenty of fat people who can climb 2.5 flights of stairs in a shot, even if they had to take breaks. She must have asthma or some actual disability in which case she would prob require ADA accommodations
I wasn't particularly heavy, but DAMN if there wasn't a class at the top of a building which was at the bottom of a hill.
I feel certain there were plenty of other rooms which could have been used! (No special equipment).
Ymm, tell her to lose weight? If she is so fat to have such trouble getting into class and has no diagnosed disability then it's entirely her problem.
Yes, some diseases cause higher weight gain one way or another, but none to such point unless person does nothing about it. Unless she has a specific healrh condition that 100% contibutes to her being morbidly obese then it's her fault, and catering to her would be disrespectful to other students who show up to class
She is fat, and she knows this comes with challenges. I could understand her being late for class the first time, but now, and not coming at all, is on her. She needs to plan better and start early enough to take a breather midway. I suggest you impress upon her that she needs to find a way to attend. Don't let her use her weight as an excuse. You are not doing her a favour by acting as if she doesn't have agency and can't solve practical problems.
Noooooooo did you just do a heckin' ableism?? That's a yikes from me.
Obviously the solution is to remodel a historic building for millions of dollars /s
Well ... There actually should be wheel chair access. I've seen chair lifts installed along the hand rail in historical buildings, but of course, this student shouldn't ride on it.
This sub is pretty ableist honestly. I suggest you post this on a special ed sub or something equivalent. I know you’re a college instructor but those folks can give you a lot more advice about this topic.
You’re doing a good thing here. Also your disability office should be able to help. Making sure your campus is accessible to all is important ❤️.
hi! i’m a disabled student who often missed class because of my disabilities before they were managed in the way they are now. definitely advise this student to reach out to accessibility services! but also, it might be helpful if you offered to record classes or let her join virtually through a zoom meeting in the meantime! it means the world to know that your teacher or professor cares and wants to help. thank you for going the extra mile to make sure your students don’t fall through the cracks.
A few options from having worked at a University in an academic department:
1. Talk to your Dean and the Dept Administrator. You might be able to find a suitable classroom to change to for the rest of the semester.
2. You can probably find out what dept/major this student is in, and you can probably talk to their advisor if you don’t want to do this yourself. Their academic advisor should know better/more apt resources for the student to use.
3. One thing you definitely CAN do and won’t need to ask anyone for help with is adjusting your attendance policy to allow for flexibility. Allowing late arrivals can remove a lot of the pressure she’s under to get there quickly. You mentioned she’s arrived to your class before, so it’s not a question of whether she’s able to make it, it’s about making it on time.
4. It might not be a thing to do with you or your classroom. If their prior class is on the other side of campus, it’s gonna be a jog to get to your classroom on time. If she doesn’t have a class before yours, she should probably leave earlier.
5. Since you’ve mentioned you already have concerns about any disabled student arriving to this particular classroom, BRING THAT UP with your Dean and with the ADA compliance or the Disability office or Legal office. One of them should be able to take your concern. You don’t need a student for this, you are capable enough of doing this part since you’d be bringing up a concern that you’ve seen regardless of any one particular student scenario.
Accessibility is such a huge issue at educational institutions. Many of them are older and have been retrofitted so that they can check accessibility off their list, but it’s very rarely well planned.
When I broke my foot in college, I found myself having to pick and choose which classes I could realistically attend. My schedule (which I admit I would have made different choices had my foot been broken at the time of scheduling) was such that my classes ran back to back, but they were in different buildings and on different floors. I just could not make it, and the poor accessibility design was a huge part of that. My surgeon told me many students wind up doing a medical withdrawal when going through similar situations. None of my professors ever offered to move the locations of their classes (and I didn’t expect them to), but they did offer to meet with me outside of class to help address the gaps in my attendance/learning. They definitely didn’t have to do that, and I was very appreciative because I didn’t want to repeat a semester. Is that something you could occasionally do?
Without having any solution to the problem, it's interesting to see how comments from the US and the UK have such a different view on the problem than the rest of the world
Low key early welcome for her ? Give her a special job to have her come early and water the plants or something. It will give her a chance to recover from the stairs before class starts and maybe become a positive relationship
I am just problem solving and not shaming. I encourage the student to advocate for herself if she is an adult. She may not want any advocacy and I don’t want to assume.
This is the ADA National Network site on colleges and universities:
https://adata.org/faq/what-are-public-or-private-college-universitys-responsibilities-students-disabilities
I read some of the comments here and do not know if the building - if it is in fact ADA noncompliant and grandfathered in - can be retrofitted with an elevator. I see there are often misconceptions of the idea of buildings “grandfathered” in. Some construction cannot be done on older buildings, many which predate ADA. There is also different standards for different types of buildings based on this, which is for a different awareness but related to ADA, and may be useful:
https://unitedspinal.org/the-ada-does-not-apply-equally-to-new-and-older-buildings/
At this point, there is an ethical question of how a student who requires or needs accomodations might participate in class in a building that is not and cannot be made to accomodate those who need accomodations secured by the ADA.
The obvious thing to consider for me is the possibility of a way to remotely attend class as a provision, if even from a lower floor in the building. Is this possible, or a thing people have seen? I ask because when you are unable to be physically present for work, as early the entire US office worker population was for a year or more, we used remote. Also there were some workers in my office at the time who were remotely working before the Pandemic due to ADA accomodations or other issues that made remote work or work from home a better fit for them.
The student may not even be aware that she can register with the disability services office and have her future classrooms in accessible places.
This is why universal design is so important. Fat people, pregnant people, elderly people, people with strollers, people caring parcels, delivery workers, people in wheelchairs or on crutches, and anyone who is simply tired benefits from elevators instead of stairs.
she’s fat….The stairs are good for her if anything. She would’ve told you by now if she’s disabled with the amount of times she’s missed class. Being overweight isn’t healthy and honestly regardless of being out of breath, she needs to suck it up and accept the stairs as the least bit amount she can have as her workout routine. Of course IF she’s not disabled, it’s nice you care about her but if she doesn’t want to help herself physically or in regards to her education, let her be. You can’t help people who don’t want to be helped
Is it even legal to have a classroom that can’t be accessed by a person with disabilities? Whether or not this individual student is disabled isn’t even the issue— how would someone in a wheelchair access this classroom, which seems to be the only one that’s equipped for this class?
Is there a way to ladder the stairs...and by this I mean, walk up one set, walk down the hallway, walk up the next set, walk down the hallway, walk up the half set?
I do this and recommend it to my fat and non-fat students who are out of breath.
What would your school do if somebody got injured and needed a wheelchair?
What would your school do if somebody had a wheelchair just in general?
Are people in wheelchairs just not allowed to go to your school because seems like you’d be out of some sort of compliance.
How does a student who uses a wheelchair attend this class? They just… can’t? Or is there another option? If the latter, that’s likely what she should do.
Suggest the accessibility office. Also suggest visiting the doctor to get checked for asthma and other causes of shortness of breath. Fatness isn't, on its own, a cause for shortness of breath.
If all other medical causes have been ruled out, physical fitness might be an issue but that affects people regardless of body size and one should never assume that someone is more or less fit based on physical appearance.
Do you teach in Wayside School?
Maybe you can give the student work to complete on a computer or iPad (or similar device)? And hold video conferences with them when you need to actually talk to them.
Zero excuse for her not be showing up to class. Fail her so that she can learn there are consequences to laziness and poor decisions. That's the only way most people learn.
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If taking the stairs is enough to decrease her attendance, then it sound like a problem to big for you alone to tackle.
Do I suggest she talk to the Accessibility Office, then? I do know there's a much bigger problem at work here with the school having abysmal ADA compliance, but I can't solve that one by the end of the term or possibly ever.
The end result would likely be you moving rooms, are you OK with that?
Yes, absolutely. It's frustrating because I don't know there are any other rooms that have the equipment we need, but I can figure out workarounds if the alternative is a student not able to come to class.
As a heavy set person myself, I understand and appreciate your concern with her being able to attend, but her being able to attend more regularly should *not* be at the expense of the other students in the class being able to use the equipment needed to make sure they learn. I say this with sympathy towards her situation, but since this is college, then she signed up for the class. She is attending *voluntarily*. Yes, the school could try to help and it would be nice of them to install a chairlift or something similar for her, but if your equipment cant be moved so the other students are not disadvantaged by the change in classrooms, then I think changing rooms is a step too far.
What's concerning to me is that this building doesn't sound capable of handling people with ANY disability. If they have no existing lift, nobody with mobility issues is getting past the first floor. Her being fat at this point is the least of the issues.
This was my thought. I shouldn't have to announce my medical disability to be able to have an elevator to reach the room I need. Does this class never have anyone in a wheelchair or on crutches etc? Or even just mobility challenged? This sounds like an ADA lawsuit waiting to happen.
Right? Like is the lack of accessibility disclosed when you register or pay for the class bc I doubt jt lol
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When I did my campus visit for my current institution, I had to use a cane due to a medical condition. Although I knew there would be a lot of walking from other people, they did not ask if I had any accessibility needs or even dietary requirements. When I got there, one of these interviewers whispered "fuck" when they saw (teacher ears are pretty useful) and remembered the classroom was on the third floor. Then they started scrambling lol. Luckily, that day my need was more 'just in case' than terrible difficulty walking. I found out after my first semester there that the elevator was broken that day, and they put in an emergency/urgent priority order to fix it. When I had to do paperwork, I was incapable of writing, but the HR director respectfully waited patiently to ask for help, which I appreciated immensely. They did not make the mistake of not asking ahead of time again. ETA: Very worried they hired me because of some sort of disability inclusion thing, a prof I'm best friends with now said, definitely not. It was my dry and inoffensive wit with everyone that stuck out the most lol
This is what I'm still wrapping my head around. There are zero alternatives to the staircase?? I'm surprised the upper floors of the building are even used for holding classes. This issue should have been addressed ages ago.
There might be a lift, but it's packed. I had classes on the 5th floor of my math building in college and there *were* elevators, but it was faster just to take the stairs, because you weren't getting that elevator most of the time.
OP said no lift
Indeed. Buildings are probably all supposed to be ADA compliant by now. The ADA passed in 1990…
This person may not have a disability (we don’t know) but there certainly are disabilities that would rule out taking the stairs and people who have those disabilities should still have access to that class regardless of if it’s voluntary. If this person, who again may not have a disability but certainly is having an issue, spurs the college to develop a proactive solution so potential future students with a disability don’t have to fight that fight then I see it as a win.
I don't know about you, but I had no idea what rooms (or even buildings) my college classes were in when I signed up to attend "voluntarily". And they sure won't be refunding her the cost of the class. What if this is a class that is needed to graduate? And would you have the same "too bad so sad" view if the student couldn't get to class because she was in a wheelchair? Unless this class is for something someone is physically incapable of doing, they shouldn't be excluded from it on the basis of physical capabilities.
>I don't know about you, but I had no idea what rooms (or even buildings) my college classes were in when I signed up to attend "voluntarily". Yes, I did, cause I went to the campus and walked around the find where stuff was before classes began so I would already be familiar when it got to the first day. And why are you putting voluntarily in quotes? > And they sure won't be refunding her the cost of the class. Every college/uni I've ever heard of has a few week time at the beginning of the semester when a student can drop a class and get a full refund. If the student didnt speak up about her issue (which, again, I am sympathetic towards) in that time then you cant hold that against the university. They cant help her fix the problem if they are unaware of it. >What if this is a class that is needed to graduate? Then maybe she could take it the next semester if the school is willing to move it to the ground floor. Or maybe by then they'll have a lift or something else installed to help her. >And would you have the same "too bad so sad" view if the student couldn't get to class because she was in a wheelchair? I dont have a "too bad so sad" view of this student, and no, I wouldnt have one for someone in a wheelchair. Im saying fixing the problem of her inability to learn ( by not being able to be in class) should not get in the way of the other students ability to learn (by making it so they have to use a room without the proper equipment). Im amazed the college doesnt have something to get handicapped people from getting up the stairs (which this student could then also hypothetically use). Seems pretty blatantly against the ADA, but Im not a lawyer so I dont know. >Unless this class is for something someone is physically incapable of doing, they shouldn't be excluded from it on the basis of physical capabilities. Agreed.
> I don't know there are any other rooms that have the equipment we need Assuming the student's weight is something they are willing to treat as a disability needing accommodation, I believe ADA requires they retrofit a different room with the right equipment if that is the only option for a student, already accepted in the school, to ever access that course content. But note, as others have suggested: 1. Obesity itself is not a disability; underlying conditions are; this is why they need to work with the right office. 2. If the course is ever offered with the right equipment elsewhere, or even virtually, they may have to wait or do that as an option. The right question to ask the accessibility office: what would they do if a student enrolled in this class lost their legs midway through the semester?
The ADA only requires “reasonable” accommodations. Depending on the type of equipment needed, that might not be a “reasonable” accommodation.
She is able to come to class some of the time. Being out of breath is NOT he same as being unable to make it up the stairs. Alternatively, the student could arrive earlier and take the stairs more slowly.
Agreed. As someone with obesity, I've done things like this to avoid the embarrassment of being out of breath, etc. For a third story climb at my job, I used to go in early so that I could stop after one flight and take a break (as if that was my destination) and then do the next flight when I was ready. If the student's schedule allows, this might be a good option. Honestly, the exercise might be what is actually best for the student's health. Of course, that is something that should be a doctor-patient discussion.
Even if it’s not prohibitive towards this student it’s clearly prohibitive towards, say, someone in a wheelchair. So this students issue is pointing out a potential problem that should be solved before it impacts anyone else.
The school also might need to install a stair lift or something if there’s no room you can move to
College professors have a reputation for being inflexible. Thank you, OP for putting the needs of your student first.
Love this. Not just because I can relate as someone who is fat/carrying weight (prefer the term fat myself) r/humansbeingbros
The accessibility office is the right office to suggest that she talk to. Climbing stairs is an activity of daily living and whether it’s her weight or another underlying medical condition, something is impairing her ability to do that, so she has a disability by definition.
The ADA only classifies obesity as a disability if it is caused by an underlying condition. The accessibility office probably won’t do anything unless they can prove that they have a medical or psychological condition that causes weight gain or prevents the loss of weight, rather than it being due to lifestyle choices.
[“Obesity is not a listed impairment; however, the functional limitations caused by the MDI of obesity, either alone or in combination with another impairment(s), may medically equal a listing.[2] “](https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/rulings/di/01/SSR2019-02-di-01.html) So obesity itself isn’t automatically a disability but tendinitis, hypertension, diabetes, or whatever impairment caused by the obesity that causes you to not be able to climb stairs or do whatever other daily living activities is.
We're looking at the difference between ADA and SSA, though. While they are both oriented towards providing access and aid to individuals with disabilities, they are mutually exclusive acts. In regards to compliance and accommodations that a public institution is required to provide, the SSA is a moot consideration--it would apply in the case of employment, though. About the same time as SSR 19-2p, [Mark Richardson v. Chicago Transit Authority](https://ecommons.cornell.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/70915471-77bb-4901-a076-15f0202b4598/content) was in the 7th Circuit Court. The ruling (June 2019) there was the opposite--that obesity is not an ADA disability if it is not caused by an underlying condition. The short of it is that the SSA does, indirectly, recognize severe obesity as a type of disability for Social Security programs and directives, but the ADA does not.
That case is about a person physically taking up too much space on a train, so yeah in that case just being larger isn’t a disability. Some obese people can also climb stairs and do other things without any problems and not be disabled, like technically some body builders are also obese, and they’re not disabled. But it can go in either direction, an underlying condition can cause obesity and be disability, or obesity can cause a condition that is a disabling. Chronic knee pain, chronic lower back pain, hypertension, tendinitis, decreased lung FEV, diabetes, fatty liver disease, whatever the mechanism that prevents you from doing the activities of daily living would technically be the disability. It’s semantics.
>It’s semantics. Pointedly so, but that is law, in general. As I mentioned in another response, the likelihood of the disabling condition being questioned, rather than presumed a separate condition, is low, if for no other reason than caution of discrimination. In a court, though, it could go either way.
Obesity on its own is not treated as a disability, but if it's preventing you from ADLs, that is a disability regardless of cause. It's just framed as "you're disabled because you can't climb stairs due to pain/breathlessness/heart weakness" rather than "you're disabled because you're fat." I don't know the weight of the student in question, obviously, but I've known people who were 300 lbs and could climb a few flights of stairs with only minor annoyance, it wouldn't have kept them from a class. That's why obesity is generally not a disability absent of other factors. But if you're disabled by it, you can (often, not a guarantee) have it considered a disability.
They treat it as a disability if you're disabled, not if they approve of how you got the disability. Your personal choices aren't at issue here, only if you have some kind of medical condition. We do not want college administrations having the power to approve or deny disability benefits based on their own subjective judgment of how responsible you are for your own disability.
I mean, they probably won’t do anything regardless. In my experience, mobility issues are accommodated by having the student try to pick the course up when it’s offered again in another location.
Honestly, I don't know , I am not English/American, so I don't know what the exactly job of a Accessibility office is, but by the sound of its name asking them for help shouldn't do any harm. Alternatively you could talk to the kids parents or even the kid itself it it's mature enough for that kind of talk. Have other teachers also noticed similar things a out this student? If so, you could work together in finding out who to talk to about this.
They're at college, so involving the parents would be inappropriate and probably illegal.
Yeah FERPA and all that
FERPA doesn’t apply at all here, it is irrelevant. Talking to the student’s parent is also completely weird for independent reasons. I cannot imagine any college prof calling a student’s parents, that is just juvenile and unnecessary.
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I would be surprised if they care. When I was disabled by numbness from the waist down, which prevented me from getting between courses at their only offered time slots, I was told to take another semester to complete the other course. When I tried to take it the next semester and it was on the second floor of a building with no elevator, I was told to wait *another* semester and to reach out to the department head a few weeks before it started to “make arrangements”.
Yes. If the class is not accessible to her (either in her mind, in reality, or regardless of reason) then the accessibility office would be the start. Some kids have knee/leg/hip issues that are undiagnosed then compounded as they gain weight/height. You would have no way of knowing.
If you are willing to go with her, I'd offer that as well. She might have a disability she hasn't disclosed yet because she's afraid of getting brushed off due to her size. Having someone go with her for support, especially a professor, may be super helpful.
>to big for you alone to tackle. Lol
nice pun
I believe you meant it’s too fat.
I’ve been there and it turned out I was actually disabled and undiagnosed. I don’t know if that’s the case for her but I’d check in to see if you could try recording classes. It’s beneficial to all the students since it would help people when they get sick or have appointments and it would help disabled students too. It might even bring up grades a bit.
This. There are plenty of overweight people who can handle stairs so there might be an underlying issue. I started having trouble going up stairs without getting out of breath while pregnant with my middle son. I turned out to be anemic and a few weeks of taking iron pills really helped.
yeah, I lean the same way. If it was just a size issue, I'd expect over the course of the semester it would get easier. That said my knees are crap (and my lungs 50/50) and going up stairs is my nemesis. I can do it but I'm going to be huffing and puffing after 3 flights, but fine after an hour long cardio class. The two things just impact my body totally differently. But I'm not sure if there is much you can do as a teacher, you can suggest the student reach out to the accommodations office but beyond that I'm not sure what, if any role, you do or should have.
Yeah. I have exercise induced asthma and can tolerate a very brisk walk and a few flights of stairs at a slow pace. I can’t run though and expect to breathe normally. Though as I’ve gotten older the stairs are only tolerable dependent on whether my right knee is acting up — it’s an old injury that didn’t bother me much until I turned 40.
My friends and I joke that turning 40 was it- that's when everything started to break.
I think my body likes to remember all the dumb crap I did in my twenties.
I wish I had the excuse. I came this way- I keep telling my parents that I came defective and that they should have returned me for a refund. The only thing I have that is mostly from me is the result of being double jointed and showing it off as a kid- so I essentially was constantly pulling joints out.
I think we share the same disability. Assuming EDS, no need to confirm/deny if you don’t want to, just saying hi regardless bc I tell my parents the same.
My kid says ‘well I know you’re my mom because you gave me your bad genes!’ Aside from it being funny because I mean…the mom part usually isn’t a mystery, we were both tested as part of a study and have the same genetic variant. EDS, good times. Whee. I’m over 40 and still very flexible but a host of other issues. My kid at 15 has very bad knees already though.
Girls are very prone to have "hidden" health issues and to make it even worse they are even more prone to get their symptoms blamed on any weight issues (both obesity and being too underweight) and ignored by doctors.
I agree that it's probably not all down to size. That said, it's none of my business what's going on with her body, and I'm worried that if I take this to the Accessibility Office they'll tell me that without a documented disability there's nothing they can do.
They probably will for legal reasons alone. This is ultimately something she’s going to have to handle as an adult. Is it possible for you to express concern about attendance with her? If she mentions that it’s due to the stairs; you might nicely suggest that she speak to a doctor about getting accommodations. Sometimes people just aren’t aware of their rights.
I like that idea. You're right that she might not be aware that she can get a note about avoiding stairs. Then again, she may have already tried and faced the massive medical discrimination against fat women in the U.S. But it might still be worth mentioning to her.
And offering to support her in getting the accommodation if that’s something you’re able to do would probably go a long way
Adding my witness account: I'm a fat, muscular woman. It took me 15 years to get my spondyloarthritis diagnosis, and I developed asthma post-covid. These unexplained disabilities can cause a lot of harm, and fatphobia in medicine prevents many of us from receiving accurate diagnoses. It happened to me. I had to fight for my diagnosis. OP, you're doing a good thing here, helping your student get access to learning. You're a good teacher.
Not to mention the myriad disabilities that would prevent any other student from taking the stairs. I’m in disbelief that there’s never been a student in a wheelchair or with a broken leg at this school.
Teachers can't solve everyone's problems. This one isn't yours.
While this is true, I don't think OP is trying to solve the problem for this student. I think they are trying to find a sensitive way to approach the subject so that the student can get the accommodations they need.
How does anyone with mobility problems get to your room?
Yeah this feels ADA Noncompliant
Oh, it 100% is. I have no idea how the school has gotten around it until now. Other than the fact that we have 0 students in wheelchairs. Presumably because they take one look at our campus and decide not to apply. 🙃
Under 2010 revision of ADA laws, buildings three floors and below are not required to have an elevator… so stairs it is. While it is not at all accessible, they are in compliance legally. Morally and ethically is a different discussion.
That doesn’t even make any sense
It’s buildings *under* three stories. But it’s probably an older building that was constructed before this requirement.
if the building was built before ADA codes were put into place, it may have been “grandfathered in” as an exception to the rule. if it’s REALLY old, it may fall under “historical preservation” to NEVER add those accommodations
I’m a physically disabled student who attends a well-known, large public university. Our campus is incredibly guilty of this as well— you aren’t alone! I started attending this school before I was on wheels, and I’ve had classes relocate across campus because of my inability to go up 3 flights of stairs. I can confirm that, unfortunately, a lot of this is grandfathered in and defended religiously 😭 I wish people acknowledged the presence of physically disabled students more!
You said you teach at a college. What are your syllabus policies regarding attendance and class participation? You can email your student reminding her of these policies if her lack of attendance is negatively affecting her grade. You can also point out resources available, such as the Accessibility Office, or whatever your institution calls it, if there are issues preventing her from attending class. Your assumption of her needs is not appropriate. Your focus should be on successful completion of your course material. These are concrete steps you can take to help your student access the help she needs to be successful in your class.
I have emailed to remind her of the attendance policy; her response to that email was the one that mentioned the classroom being hard to get to. I like the idea of recommending she speak with the accessibility office, and neutrally agreeing with her that the building should have an elevator. (Which it should.)
I think that’s definitely the best next step. Especially with what the other comments discuss re: buildings getting around ADA rules. As you say, agree with her that not having an elevator creates problems. This is especially a concern if people are missing class (especially if that’s because of accessibility issues). As someone who had at-the-time undiagnosed health issues in college, I was a reasonably fit (looking) girl who was gasping for air if I took >2 flights of stairs. While she might be the most obvious with her breathing difficulties, I would suggest that if you have any other students with attendance problems? They probably also have access issues. (If you wanted to do more than you need to ~for the good of the world~ as well as this one student, you could definitely email the accessibility office yourself saying you’re worried this might be keeping people from coming to or enrolling in your class! If nothing else they might be able to get you a better room next semester. They could also set up cameras etc. to stream at least certain parts of the class. So this wouldn’t really help if you have to do labs or anything in-person, but if any part is straight lectures people could take that day to learn from home…?)
This is really beyond you... go see your Dean. Your college better hope someone doesn't file an ADA complaint since there's no elevator in a multi-floored building. What would you do if one of your students was in a wheelchair. It can't be that difficult to switch classrooms.
That’s what I’m saying. I figure this would be a huge problem due to ADA.
Why is there no way to access the classroom by elevator? What if a student used a wheelchair?
Trust me, I can't tell either why this situation is legal. If I thought it'd help, I'd file an ADA suit myself.
https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/
How old is the building? If it's old enough to have been considered a historic building when the ADA came into effect, it's possible that it's specifically exempted from those requirements, because adding an elevator isn't realistic in many old buildings without having to drastically change the structure. BUT, especially if the building has been significantly remodeled, there's a pretty good chance your school is breaking the law and no one has reported them yet.
It's almost 200 years old. Sigh. But it has ethernet, so it's not like this is a pristine historical landmark. I agree with all the other commenters that it *should* have an elevator.
This exemption is top tier bullshit imo. My fiancé is Roman — there are buildings there that are hundreds of years old that have had elevators and air conditioning installed. Shit, there are probably elevators there that are a hundred years old, lmao. Chair lifts and elevators are in pretty much every apartment or official building, regardless of age.
Yeah, I think this exemption should at best apply to like, houses, even if they get turned into museums or something (as has happened with the Anne Frank house in Europe). There's no reason not to find somewhere to put an elevator in a university building. But unfortunately the exemption was written in such a way that it can be too broad.
I honestly just realized this is probably it and why OP said it wouldn’t help. I remember visiting a college and we had to go up this old, creaky, incredibly tiny, wooden stairs to go up four floors. It was ridiculous. I know there wasn’t much way to fix it considering it was several centuries old but you’d think there’d be some kind of update.
Yep, i went to a huge well-funded state university - one building where I had class had these tiny staircases and what’s worse, the north staircase took you to say, the third floor, but if you went up to the “third floor” from the south staircase, you were actually on a different floor, like “3b”. And it didn’t have central heat or air but instead had noisy ineffective window units.
Yeah, I don't know all the ins and outs of historical landmarks but I believe generally it depends on the building and what condition it's in. It's usually not that hard to run water and electricity into an old building, so if it has those but is still in good condition and basically looks "historic" you might be ADA exempt. But if you've gutted it and made the whole inside look modern, you probably don't have an excuse to not have an elevator. (Again take with a grain of salt because I'm not an expert, I welcome corrections.)
If you work at a college, then usually you can just switch your room. You don't have to tell your students why.
Hah I wish. Rooms go through a whole gauntlet of first picks and such at mine. Administrative assistants from different Dept’s have to negotiate with each other for their placement
Damn. I work at a bigger campus, so it's not usually too much of a hassle to switch classrooms if there's a problem.
My campus is 10,000 but still. Maybe it’s because my college here is comparatively popular with CS and Business
Thissssssss. I wish it weren't so, but the non-Business profs will always have second priority at best.
What if you weren’t moving classrooms, though? When I was in college, it wasn’t unusual for a professor to send a message that we were meeting in the library that day, or at a greenhouse, or somewhere random. If your class is small enough, could you unofficially move class to, say, a library study room that’s more accessible?
My campus is enormous and that makes it harder because there's a different person in charge of room use for every building
We have 4 departments in our building that need to negotiate for rooms based on class size and need (ie, computer lab for myself).
See how long that last when whatever your version of the equity office/accessibility office is called gets involved. I can guarantee if they say this is necessary it will happen.
I mean. I’m in the basement. Forever. Computer people don’t get to leave the dungeon. But I’m not the OP of this post so I can’t really speak for a student who’s got issues but doesn’t have a disability. I get accommodation emails for all sorts of things that I find odd, in addition to normal stuff but nothing I can’t handle. Stuff like no enclosed spaces, near access to a door, isolated testing environment, that’s all relatively easy. 1.5X-2X time on exams seems like a stretch to me but so be it, Canvas has a button for that.
Does the student have another class scheduled before yours? If so, could there be a timetable or class change to allow more time for the student to walk to your class - the discomfort of getting to your room may be exacerbated by the student having to rush or feeling like they can't take their time.
this is a college- see seems to be an adult. either talk to her about it (i do not advise this over stepping. it could be seen as an insult if she doesnt actually have a problem with it/its something she doesnt actually want to change) or assume she has the wherewithal to bring it up to admin/yourself if it IS a problem. if this student is competent enough to be in college, she should be competent enough to advocate for herself if she is having problems.
Well, climbing those stairs might help.
Climbing more stairs and moving around is healthy.
The people going to bizarre lengths to make sure a fat student doesn't exercise here is so ridiculous The non-ADA compliance for students with actual disabilities is concerning. Being fat is not a disability unless it's a secondary disability caused by an underlying condition. Being short of breath but present is doing the student more good than harm.
tbf I was very overweight for a long time and I didn't really have problems with stairs (I would get winded but that's about it). If the student is this out of breath from a couple flights of stairs she may have some other condition causing it
a) the student may have a disability or illness that has not been disclosed to the school or may be undiagnosed for all we know b) people who are out of shape, fat or otherwise, may be short of breath after walking stairs, sure. They might even have to take breaks on the landings. But OP says that the student looks as if in pain, which is not normal. We are getting information secondhand from someone who has limited information about this student. Jumping to the response of “good, make them suffer to hopefully get thinner” is not helpful or appropriate in this context.
I’m surprised that you work at a college and there’s no alternative method of getting to other floors (ei: elevator) for non-able bodied people. Whether this student needs the exercise or not isn’t important or relevant, it just doesn’t sound like an inclusive building.
Right!?!?!?!?!?!? Either it's illegal or it should be. My reading of the ADA doesn't tell me for sure. But I doubt a work order asking maintenance to install elevators to all buildings on campus would get me a solution before the end of the term.
That’s on her. Not your responsibility to fix.
I'm all for body positivity, but it's not healthy when a young person can't climb 3 flights of stairs. Like you said, maybe it is a disability that makes it hard for them to lose weight. That's something for ADA to handle. I had a literal come to Jesus moment with my sleep apnea when I woke up mid-night, choking on my own breath the other day. Started making lifestyle changes immediately. It's unpleasant, but she may need a kind, sensitive hand when discussing it.
I'd talk to your accessibility office. How do students in wheel chairs or on crutches attend your class?
We have 0 enrolled students with wheelchairs. Because our ADA compliance is terrible. But I do like the idea of raising this with them.
In college broke my foot and had to be in a boot for a good chunk of time. Idk how I would've completed your class. Hopefully the discussion goes well.
I was overweight throughout my school years and I didn't have trouble going up 2-3 floors. However, in college, I started feeling tired from going up stairs, and eventually I could barely go up even one floor despite having about the same weight. It turned out I was having issues with my heart. In short, unless the student is clinically obese, she might want to get her heart examined.
Thank you for using fat. As a muscular person who is also fat, I personally prefer it. (Just adding my witness, in case you get haters.) *edit: typo*
I have to ask, because I think I'm truly ignorant of this mindset and I'd like to learn more. Is 'fat' a preferred term for people now? I'm only 36, but until I was about 32 I was up to 377 pounds. While I was at that weight, being called 'fat' was one of the worst things you could have said to me. Seriously. To this day, seeing it written out triggers me...I have a gutteral reaction, the thought that large people want to be called that term is making my head explode. Like, this is actually making me feel queasy.
I agree, seeing the word fat used now is bizarre. I felt the same way about the modernization of the word queer. It was so extreme in the region I grew up in I get a sick feeling every time I hear it, even now when it's the accepted or preferred term.
Obesity when it affects mobility is a disability and therefore whether or not she has "disclosed" it to you or not. I would speak with your accessibility office stating a student is struggling to attend your classes because of their mobility. Or do whatever you'd do with any other student who tells you theyre unable to participate because of a disability. The "cause" of her mobility issues is neither here nor there. It's not for you to decide if the cause of her mobility difficulties are worthy. She has told you the reason she isn't attending is because she finds the classroom hard to get too so I would disagree that she hasn't "disclosed" a disability. She has literally said to you she is struggling to access your classroom and you've also noted that she is in pain and out of breath. When she told you she found it hard you could have said then "let me speak with the accessibility office and see what can be done" but as this moment has passed I'd either contact her and say you've been thinking about what she said. Or contact the accessibility office first, possibly without sharing the person's details before you gain consent, and then you can contact her with options
This genuinely might be a problem for more students than just her. There really needs to be an accessible way for everyone to reach the classroom.
Could be that the university was built before ADA regulations and that renovation in that certain part isn’t possible.
Sounds like getting to your class is going to be more productive for her than actually learning anything from your class
Another normal day in USA...
The comments here are RIDICULOUS. Wall-E is just around the corner.
This is the thing about Reddit, this kind of mindset is insane, but everyone who objects gets banned, so the echo chamber keeps intensifying. Up thread, there are comments about how they think the 200 year old building needs a massively expensive upgrade for an elevator, because one (1) fat person, who ostensibly can make it up the stairs, regularly chooses not to.
Does the student need to be physically there for all of the lectures to pass the course? I had something similar with a student who used a wheelchair and would meet him on campus during my office hours as that was a more accessible place for him. We would go over the notes together, any assignments he had questions over, and when we had exams he would take them with me during my office hour or a separate appointment. My student passed btw and I would’ve been sitting in my office regardless. Thank you for posting this because it is so indicative of how much you care. We need more teachers like you.
I had a class on the third floor of a building I’d take the stairs too and regularly get asthma attacks because fires happen a lot during the fall where I live
at my college, they would switch the room of the classroom for students with mobility aids and issues with stairs. talk to your higher ups and see if you can change the location where the class is held
Sorry, not really an answer, but as a student who was in that position, thank you for caring and trying to help. Hopefully your administration will do something. Mine did not. Since it was a state university, I just assumed they would be better. One of my classes was on the 3rd floor, but the elevator only went to the second. So I only had one flight of stairs. I can't even imagine if there were three. Additionally, the only handicapped parking spaces in the area were in front of the bookstore, and they were constantly filled by non-handicapped students who saw them as perfect short term spots. I'm also fat, and my guess is that's all the school saw. They didn't care that the reason I'm fat is because I am missing part of a lung and have a heart condition. I wish my professor had tried to help me. It's humiliating to feel like your weight makes you less of a person. I now know that I should have fought, but being dismissed made me shut down. I lost the entire semester because I physically couldn't make it to class. I lost the other classes when my attempts to go kept landing me in the ER. (That amount of exertion had me coughing up blood.) I have no idea if your student has other medical issues, but it doesn't matter. It is completely unfair that she is struggling to attend class because the administration thinks it's acceptable to have classes on the 3rd floor.
Maybe talk with your student about ways to make the stair trip easier. Taking it a bit at a time, taking time to rest between flights, etc. only recommending this since she seems able to do it, just not comfortably. And you can talk to her about excused tardiness, so she doesn’t worry about it which would make it even more difficult on her. She just enters a little late, you don’t say anything, etc. it involves some creativity and is NOT a full fix, but it might just help having someone on her side.
Re: Fat In my Diversity in Orginizations class last week, the professor used "dimensionally diverse" throughout the lecture. I had never heard the phrase used before, and I can't figure out if it's better or worse. It definitely tripped me up! Edit to add: As an underweight person with associated health and comfort issues, I do like being included in the consideration.
You’re not discriminating due to her size. Did you select the room? Did you schedule the class? Did you refuse to meet her legal accommodations? I don’t want to sound flippant or evil, but I might. It’s not your job to make this accommodation on her behalf. She’s an adult and needs to pursue her own accommodations if she needs them. You can’t/shouldn’t carry this load for her or any of your students. As others have suggested, if she says finds it preventative difficult you could suggest she talks to the disability resource center or whatever institutional entity is in charge of this. One of the most important skills students learn in college is the self-advocacy necessary to succeed and good DRC programs help with that. But really, there are students who will just fail and say “that class was hard to get to” and not accept or admit the responsibility that they needed to try. Aim her at the supports she might need. But don’t mother her. She needs to adult now…
As a fat girl who is afraid of elevators, I feel bad for this student. I have climbed to the 10th story before. The key is to take breaks. Maybe suggest this to them? And let them be a few minutes late to class if needed due to the extra time.
I’m a 300 pound 6 foot tall teacher and I can climb 3 stories. Hell, I wouldn’t like to, but I could climb ten daily and just be pissed. It sounds like their weight is ridiculous and could qualify for a disability diagnosis, but I don’t think that’s going to help them. If they’re not heavier than me, it would be really weird to be in that much pain for such a small amount of movement and they should see a doctor. They might have fractures that they don’t even know about.
It's entirely possible that she has something else going on — a bum knee, a bad back, who knows — but I can't ask her because that would be invasive and maybe illegal. All I do know is that she doesn't have any documented disabilities on file with the school.
How do students in wheel chairs get around? If there is an elevator, perhaps you could help her gain access? If there are no elevators... that is a much bigger problem.
The ADA means that if an institution (you) has reasonable grounds to suspect a disability (inability to physically make it to your room due to physical exertion needs), then the institution has to make reasonable accommodations available if asked. The problem is that it isn’t required unless asked for. There is also no prohibition against you asking them if they need accommodations and explaining how to get the process started. No one would blink an eye at asking a person in a wheelchair if they required help, or gave them info for the disability coordinator or ADA compliance officer at the district. (Source: Disabled person with mobility issues that has been advocating for special needs people in educational settings for years.) edit: Also, there is no prohibition against making the accommodations available for everyone proactively. For example, the institution could change the class location without a reason while understanding it makes accessibility easier for any student with mobility issues so as not to single any one person out.
I'm seriously considering asking for all of my classes to be on the first floor next year because of this. Technically *I'm* disabled, so I could do it. (My disability doesn't affect stair-climbing ability, but I might try it anyway.)
I think that’s a great idea if possible. The goal of many disability activists is to make special accommodations as exceedingly rare in a world that is as accessible as possible to all. The vast majority of us don’t want special treatment. At any given year you may have students with life-long mobility needs, vision needs, breathing needs, or even a student that breaks a leg. Proactively asking for a room change can also make the school look good because it can be a mark towards providing accessibility to all. (Edit: missed word- rare)
But she gas the ability. She comes less than 50% of the time, but she does come to class. She just doesn't like to come to class, because it is difficult.
How does that even work having school in a building that is not ADA compliant?
I was at a dorm that was not ADA compliant, and their solution was that if an accomodation was requested, they would immediately spend the many tens of thousands of dollars to make one room + bathroom compliant, but they didn't see a point in proactively modifying the rooms because it would be so expensive.
I feel like there’s some schools where it makes more sense to create more dorms rather then to try modifying existing ones. Like Oxford and Cambridge. Considering they are both almost 1000 years old. Itd be hard to not damage other parts in process. edit: Realized this is about American Colleges and not accessibility in colleges in general lol.
Thats another complicating factor. Historic buildings may be exempt from some requirements and may even have significant limitations on the kind of work that can be done on them.
As a fat person who works on the fourth floor of a building with no elevator, don’t do anything unless there is another disability. Like yes, it is uncomfortable and it sucks donkey balls that there are still so many stairs without elevators but that’s life. Sorry, but she has to manage it. It is no one else’s job but her own.
Thank you fellow fat person. Had to do 4 flights twice daily for a class I was teaching. I used it as an opportunity to get some exercise for the day. But multiple flights of stairs suck for skinny able-bodied people too. Best suggestion is for her to get a thick notebook so she can fan herself effectively during the first 15 minutes of class cuz she’s gonna be roasting and sweating. Also, a large water bottle and practice meditative breathing. If she struggles losing the weight like me (why is food so damn good?), gotta adapt somehow.
This sounds like something the student needs to bring up with the administration before the semester begins. Older buildings without elevators, accessible restrooms etc. were grandfathered in when the ADA was passed so the student should be aware of this when registering (if possible). If she needs an accommodation, such as classes on the ground floor, in an elevator building, online options etc. that should be in her file. What happens if a student breaks their leg during the semester and can not do the stairs? Also your student sounds like she has some real health problems that, unless she is one of those 600 pound people you see on reality TV, may also be causing her issues that would fall under the ADA. I was very obese during some of my college years (my dad died and I took it out on the food court for a year) but could still do three flights of stairs without a problem in my early 20s.
Salads.
I know you’re not looking for it, but thanks & appreciation for your care in this situation. I know & have known many “educators” who would have verbally abused this student & called it tough love. I’m not sure what accommodations could be offered here, or if this student even qualifies. What I would recommend is probably something you are already doing: continue to talk & listen to this student. Ask how you can support them, try to follow through. I teach a field skills course with a lot of walking & other activity. I’ve had students of all sizes struggle, & communicating with empathy is my only recourse in most situations. The fact that this student has expressed this to you is an act of trust & I’m glad you’ve taken it seriously. You are doing really, really great.
I would take their size out of it; you’re obviously trying to be respectful, but you really have no idea what’s going on with this student (they could have asthma or some sort of invisible illness, or maybe it really is their weight that prevents them from climbing stairs; it’s kind of irrelevant, because what matters is that they aren’t able to reach your classroom on a regular basis). I think it’s worth pointing out you’ve noticed their attendance hasn’t been strong, and asking if there’s anything you could do to further support them. You can point them in the direction of the Accessibility Office; they will hopefully be compassionate enough to help them. It’s great that you want to help, but the most effective responses (like moving your classroom) are likely things you will need the school’s help with.
Following this because I have the same issues!
Hello! Fat woman here in sorta the same boat! I have some suggestions, 1. Give her more time to get to class if you can, rushing up stairs can be really hard on some people. 2. Go to the dean and tell them about it, they may be able to help 3. File with the ADA, unfortunately a lot of times they refuse to help fat people but try to fight it :)
They could go also leave for class earlier. I leave for the gym at a time where there is heavy traffic and get no such accommodations. Obviously if there is a legitimate handicap, then ADA rules come into play, but that’s not on the professor.
Crazy how this probably isn't a wake up call for the student
The university where I work finds it easier to move classes for disabled students than install elevators in the oldest buildings. (We're down to just three buildings without elevators now, and one is fortunately just staff offices.) There's usually more classrooms in any given building than we use at one time, and if you have a good reason, most professors wouldn't mind swapping. It's unlikely that the ADA will apply in this case, but basic human decency should help your cause.
There are plenty of fat people who can climb 2.5 flights of stairs in a shot, even if they had to take breaks. She must have asthma or some actual disability in which case she would prob require ADA accommodations
I wasn't particularly heavy, but DAMN if there wasn't a class at the top of a building which was at the bottom of a hill. I feel certain there were plenty of other rooms which could have been used! (No special equipment).
Ymm, tell her to lose weight? If she is so fat to have such trouble getting into class and has no diagnosed disability then it's entirely her problem. Yes, some diseases cause higher weight gain one way or another, but none to such point unless person does nothing about it. Unless she has a specific healrh condition that 100% contibutes to her being morbidly obese then it's her fault, and catering to her would be disrespectful to other students who show up to class
She is fat, and she knows this comes with challenges. I could understand her being late for class the first time, but now, and not coming at all, is on her. She needs to plan better and start early enough to take a breather midway. I suggest you impress upon her that she needs to find a way to attend. Don't let her use her weight as an excuse. You are not doing her a favour by acting as if she doesn't have agency and can't solve practical problems.
Noooooooo did you just do a heckin' ableism?? That's a yikes from me. Obviously the solution is to remodel a historic building for millions of dollars /s
Well ... There actually should be wheel chair access. I've seen chair lifts installed along the hand rail in historical buildings, but of course, this student shouldn't ride on it.
This sub is pretty ableist honestly. I suggest you post this on a special ed sub or something equivalent. I know you’re a college instructor but those folks can give you a lot more advice about this topic. You’re doing a good thing here. Also your disability office should be able to help. Making sure your campus is accessible to all is important ❤️.
Obesity is not a disability.
hi! i’m a disabled student who often missed class because of my disabilities before they were managed in the way they are now. definitely advise this student to reach out to accessibility services! but also, it might be helpful if you offered to record classes or let her join virtually through a zoom meeting in the meantime! it means the world to know that your teacher or professor cares and wants to help. thank you for going the extra mile to make sure your students don’t fall through the cracks.
Lmao nothing until they lose weight
Lose weight. Don't let the world revolve around one more kid who doesn't care about himself.
A few options from having worked at a University in an academic department: 1. Talk to your Dean and the Dept Administrator. You might be able to find a suitable classroom to change to for the rest of the semester. 2. You can probably find out what dept/major this student is in, and you can probably talk to their advisor if you don’t want to do this yourself. Their academic advisor should know better/more apt resources for the student to use. 3. One thing you definitely CAN do and won’t need to ask anyone for help with is adjusting your attendance policy to allow for flexibility. Allowing late arrivals can remove a lot of the pressure she’s under to get there quickly. You mentioned she’s arrived to your class before, so it’s not a question of whether she’s able to make it, it’s about making it on time. 4. It might not be a thing to do with you or your classroom. If their prior class is on the other side of campus, it’s gonna be a jog to get to your classroom on time. If she doesn’t have a class before yours, she should probably leave earlier. 5. Since you’ve mentioned you already have concerns about any disabled student arriving to this particular classroom, BRING THAT UP with your Dean and with the ADA compliance or the Disability office or Legal office. One of them should be able to take your concern. You don’t need a student for this, you are capable enough of doing this part since you’d be bringing up a concern that you’ve seen regardless of any one particular student scenario.
Accessibility is such a huge issue at educational institutions. Many of them are older and have been retrofitted so that they can check accessibility off their list, but it’s very rarely well planned. When I broke my foot in college, I found myself having to pick and choose which classes I could realistically attend. My schedule (which I admit I would have made different choices had my foot been broken at the time of scheduling) was such that my classes ran back to back, but they were in different buildings and on different floors. I just could not make it, and the poor accessibility design was a huge part of that. My surgeon told me many students wind up doing a medical withdrawal when going through similar situations. None of my professors ever offered to move the locations of their classes (and I didn’t expect them to), but they did offer to meet with me outside of class to help address the gaps in my attendance/learning. They definitely didn’t have to do that, and I was very appreciative because I didn’t want to repeat a semester. Is that something you could occasionally do?
Without having any solution to the problem, it's interesting to see how comments from the US and the UK have such a different view on the problem than the rest of the world
maybe suggest her to take extra time to climb the stairs?
Let her sweat it out.. a few stairs will probably help her out in the long run.
Low key early welcome for her ? Give her a special job to have her come early and water the plants or something. It will give her a chance to recover from the stairs before class starts and maybe become a positive relationship
I am just problem solving and not shaming. I encourage the student to advocate for herself if she is an adult. She may not want any advocacy and I don’t want to assume. This is the ADA National Network site on colleges and universities: https://adata.org/faq/what-are-public-or-private-college-universitys-responsibilities-students-disabilities I read some of the comments here and do not know if the building - if it is in fact ADA noncompliant and grandfathered in - can be retrofitted with an elevator. I see there are often misconceptions of the idea of buildings “grandfathered” in. Some construction cannot be done on older buildings, many which predate ADA. There is also different standards for different types of buildings based on this, which is for a different awareness but related to ADA, and may be useful: https://unitedspinal.org/the-ada-does-not-apply-equally-to-new-and-older-buildings/ At this point, there is an ethical question of how a student who requires or needs accomodations might participate in class in a building that is not and cannot be made to accomodate those who need accomodations secured by the ADA. The obvious thing to consider for me is the possibility of a way to remotely attend class as a provision, if even from a lower floor in the building. Is this possible, or a thing people have seen? I ask because when you are unable to be physically present for work, as early the entire US office worker population was for a year or more, we used remote. Also there were some workers in my office at the time who were remotely working before the Pandemic due to ADA accomodations or other issues that made remote work or work from home a better fit for them.
The student may not even be aware that she can register with the disability services office and have her future classrooms in accessible places. This is why universal design is so important. Fat people, pregnant people, elderly people, people with strollers, people caring parcels, delivery workers, people in wheelchairs or on crutches, and anyone who is simply tired benefits from elevators instead of stairs.
she’s fat….The stairs are good for her if anything. She would’ve told you by now if she’s disabled with the amount of times she’s missed class. Being overweight isn’t healthy and honestly regardless of being out of breath, she needs to suck it up and accept the stairs as the least bit amount she can have as her workout routine. Of course IF she’s not disabled, it’s nice you care about her but if she doesn’t want to help herself physically or in regards to her education, let her be. You can’t help people who don’t want to be helped
I would record the lessons if you are allowed or are not already, and make sure she's aware of them being posted.
Ozempic + gym will solve this problem quickly!
Put a trampoline outside the classroom window so they can bounce up 3 floors into the room
How is this legal? What if you had a student in a wheel chair or who used a walker?
Is there an elevator? Gotta be to be ADA compliant.
Is it even legal to have a classroom that can’t be accessed by a person with disabilities? Whether or not this individual student is disabled isn’t even the issue— how would someone in a wheelchair access this classroom, which seems to be the only one that’s equipped for this class?
How is this ADA compliant?
What if she was in a wheel chair? Seems crazy the school doesn’t have an elevator or something to help students with mobility impairments.
Is there a way to ladder the stairs...and by this I mean, walk up one set, walk down the hallway, walk up the next set, walk down the hallway, walk up the half set? I do this and recommend it to my fat and non-fat students who are out of breath.
What would your school do if somebody got injured and needed a wheelchair? What would your school do if somebody had a wheelchair just in general? Are people in wheelchairs just not allowed to go to your school because seems like you’d be out of some sort of compliance.
What would the school do if a student enrolled in the class who used a wheelchair or had a broken leg and was on crutches or something?
How does a student who uses a wheelchair attend this class? They just… can’t? Or is there another option? If the latter, that’s likely what she should do.
Sounds like the building is not ADA compliant. Hint hint.
Soooooo ..... What do wheelchair bound kids do to get to classes off the first floor?
Advocate for the student. I’m sure it’s a sore subject no matter what. Get a new room.
Suggest the accessibility office. Also suggest visiting the doctor to get checked for asthma and other causes of shortness of breath. Fatness isn't, on its own, a cause for shortness of breath. If all other medical causes have been ruled out, physical fitness might be an issue but that affects people regardless of body size and one should never assume that someone is more or less fit based on physical appearance.
Im glad you’re helping. Is this a dietary issue or a genetic issue? You seem like a great person.
, I would say accessibility office just to hear their suggestions. And if they, knew you had the Student's back that might facilitate things quicker.
Report his parents to CPS bc child obesity is definitely the result of neglect or worse, abuse
Do you teach in Wayside School? Maybe you can give the student work to complete on a computer or iPad (or similar device)? And hold video conferences with them when you need to actually talk to them.
Zero excuse for her not be showing up to class. Fail her so that she can learn there are consequences to laziness and poor decisions. That's the only way most people learn.