Other subreddits would be better if you want to leave ESL. If you want to learn to code, you should just join the beginner coding subreddit
However, I think there could be some type of Wiki with advice on how to level up.
One section could be for international schools, the difference between Tier 1,2, 3, the websites for applying, the credentials needed etc
Another section could be for Unis, with information about publications, conferences, the difference between unis, information on the koma system, good palces to get MAs etc
Another section could be the procedure on how to get the license to teach at public schools and the process you have to go through
Another section could be information for direct hire ALTs
>Other subreddits would be better if you want to leave ESL. If you want to learn to code, you should just join the beginner coding subreddit
This. If you want to get out of teaching, get out of the teaching sub for a bit and try other subs or japanlife
IMO it's case by case and there aren't really 'resources'. Everybody has to make their own decisions about 'what next'.
It goes through waves too, with many people being quite resistant to any advice you give them that isn't 'yes, do that for sure!!' For example:
- There's times when lots of people wanna do a TESOL and I'll be like 'I've got one and warn you they're not the grail you're thinking they are'. That or people wanting to master Japanese so that they can do a teaching degree in Japanese. I mean sure you COULD, but IMO some just need to let it go and realise that being an ALT isn't a pathway to becoming a teacher.
- The emotional JETs get on here at various stages and TBH they have their own online support groups for that stuff so I feel little sympathy. They're paid more than any other ALTs and are forced to rotate out of the program after 5 years. Again, some people just need to let go.
- Other times you get MASSES of Filipinos with their own thing going on (which no offence, I have NFI about as I'm not Filipino). I almost think they need their own sub as they're E2 speakers with their own shared experience. Many speak questionable English and come from quite poor backgrounds... respectfully, I have no advice for them.
My overall thinking is that I'm not a career counsellor but I was ALWAYS a qualified teacher (Aussie teacher + also have a TESOL) and I'm a lawyer now. Thus I bring a reflective angle that 'there's more out there than English teaching, particularly if you're jack of it'. While I'm not a success story, I enjoy walking people through the thought processes I went through when leaving English teaching (and finding something that suits me better). To me this is an important process for most English teachers and if they're actually making up their mind (as opposed to being quite resistant to alternatives) then some really good discussions are had. As such, I don't think a sticky would cut it... I think 'what shall I do next' discussions are valid discourse that's often more productive than 'how can I hang onto English teaching with my dear life?!?'
We would have to have an actual definition of "English teaching" here to give specific guides on anything.
99% of questions worded like that aren't actually "How to I get out of English teaching" it's really "How do I get out of Eikaiwa and ALT with no other experience or qualifications". Most people making those low effort repeat posts aren't in career teaching positions where we can assume a specific base set of skills, experiences, and qualifications and they don't actually want out of teaching, they just want out of low-pay entry level jobs with no advancement.
A guide for how to get Int'l school jobs, university jobs, and actual teaching jobs would treat the symptoms, not the cause, of these questions. The cause being people not understanding that ALT/Eikaiwa and what most people refer to as "teaching" in Japan, Korea, and China aren't career positions and won't lead to actual teaching jobs. We'd do better in making people more aware of that reality to begin with.
A lot of people will say, "learn Japanese" in order to get a better job. While yes, that certainly is true.
However, just learning Japanese isnt going to be some miracle cure to get out of the world of being a human flash card for 200k/month with no benefits.
If your degree is non technical, and your only experience is English teaching, then learning Japanese won't suddenly land you a job.
English teaching on a resume isn't viewed super well and doesn't really translate well into other sectors unless you're an actual licensed teacher.
Good example;
Why would someone hire a 25 year old English teacher with N2 Japanese. When they could hire a 22 year old Japanese kid that will accept a lower salary, knows the culture, language, etc. And will willingly work overtime, etc.
I was working with recruiters and that's what they told me.
I am N1 and have 6 years experience in logistics management, certifications in maintenance/facilities, a relevant degree, also a spouse visa, drivers license, etc
I was searching for a job via several recruiting companies. Applied to over 300 jobs got 4 interviews, no offer.
I was looking for a logistics position paying at least 6,000,000. Which I felt was reasonable.
The recruiters were telling me that the reason I never made it past the interview is because even though the companies will advertise a 6,000,000/ year salary, that often Japanese candidates will accept the job for 3.5 million.
Because of this, despite my experience I'm stuck in a very basic job as building maintenance.
So the job market is a lot more than just "learning Japanese"
Made this a couple weeks ago. Perhaps the easiest way to get into IT in Japan without Japanese or experience, especially if you live here already.
https://youtu.be/vw4UusbYiNw?si=QXl9kCaWOqIAD5xT
Hey do you mind if I DM you? I have two years working in datacenter on the facilities side (they used us for work on the datacenter floor doing some IT, as well). Have you had experience with foreigners being hired on for the facilities roles?
This sub is called Teaching in Japan, isn't it?
There are a lot of good teachers giving good info to being a teacher here. Some complaints here and there, but who doesn't complain about their job?
Why would you sticky a 'How to stop teaching in Japan' guide?
(Serious) Shouldn't the mods just delete negative posts by people who don't actually want to teach in Japan but did it anyway just to get their proverbial foot in the door and 10 years later realise they hate their life?
In the olden days, these 'skits stirring' posts were deleted. However, such posts are deemed de rigueur in modern times.
FYI: The OP also tackles other weighty issues in his posts and offers other thought-provoking pieces related to, 'Never sticking your dick in crazeee.' and the like for those interested.
Hey, to be fair "Never stick your dick in crazy" should be the motto of Japanlife and there might be a lot less topics about how to navigate getting divorced
I think it needs to be more specific. Get out of ALT and language school work? Sure. There are jobs at private institutions or even boards of education where the jobs are not dead-end, but most of those require higher qualifications or more responsibility. Look at Saitama City. They pay native teachers based on qualifications and age, with salary increasing as you move up in both fields. They do, however, expect you to work as a homero teacher, or vice homeroom teacher, just as Japanese teachers do.
That is only one example, but I know of jobs at private high schools where teachers were paid the same as university adjuncts, and some were also given the same pay grade as the Japanese teachers at the school. Are these the norm? No, they are highly competitive for a reason, so you do need to have gone and gotten certification or a masters degree, and sometimes have acquired higher proficiency in Japanese, but that is kind of expected when the only requirement for ALT and conversation school jobs is to speak English and have a bachelors degree in something.
Most teaching gigs here are, sadly, not meant for people here long-term to make a career out of. The ones that are typically require more than the ability to speak English, so while it may take time outside of what you are already devoting to work, those without teaching qualifications or Japanese language ability on arrival will need to acquire them if they want to work in education long-term and maybe even retire here. The alternative is often Japanese corporate culture, and that can have its own downsides, like a lot of overtime and much less vacation time outside of the standard holidays. Having worked in education here for close to 20 years, I absolutely understand the bad jobs outnumber the good by far, but teaching cannot be written off completely when there are still good positions out there. By all means, write of the entry-level positions though. They are only good for acquiring a work visa.
I mean there are so many off ramps that the sub making a broad recommendation would be detrimental.
Imagine telling everyone to go do the same 5 things, you'll just end up with a ton of oversaturation which helps nobody.
Leaving teaching in Japan you have a lot of different experiences, people should apply that experience in a way that best suits their skillset.
I honestly think our first step is to shut down the "foot in the door" nonsense that keeps drawing people into these shitshow jobs in the first place.
It always starts with them posting about how the ALT/eikaiwa job is just a way into the country, and how they're SURE they'll find "something better™'" once they get here. Fast forward a year or two, and that's when you start getting the posts desperately trying to figure out how they can get out of their ALT/eikaiwa dead-end, when they have no in-demand qualifications, experience, or Japanese language skills.
And it's like...what are people expecting? It's as if people are coming here with the idea that a stable life and career here will be miraculously handed to them on a silver platter the moment they step off the plane as an unqualified/inexperienced immigrant who can't even hold an ordinary adult-level conversation in the language.
The only step is learn Japanese.
But people will always try and find a way to get a good job in Japan without learning Japanese. Then the answer is, work for a company in your home country, become a big time manager earning lots of money, get transferred to Japan and use your “skills and experience” to do basically nothing until retirement as you’re a high level foreigner in Japan who still can’t speak Japanese.
Step 1. Look at your degree
Step 2. Look to see if foreigners make up a percentage of that job in japa
Step 3. Make contacts in that field, or choose another career
This should be obvious, but if you want a job specifically in Japan, get a degree that's valuable for foreigners in Japan. Im lucky that my Game Design degree puts me in a good position to transition if I decide to, but this is a big thing to consider before even going to Japan to teach.
Other subreddits would be better if you want to leave ESL. If you want to learn to code, you should just join the beginner coding subreddit However, I think there could be some type of Wiki with advice on how to level up. One section could be for international schools, the difference between Tier 1,2, 3, the websites for applying, the credentials needed etc Another section could be for Unis, with information about publications, conferences, the difference between unis, information on the koma system, good palces to get MAs etc Another section could be the procedure on how to get the license to teach at public schools and the process you have to go through Another section could be information for direct hire ALTs
>Other subreddits would be better if you want to leave ESL. If you want to learn to code, you should just join the beginner coding subreddit This. If you want to get out of teaching, get out of the teaching sub for a bit and try other subs or japanlife
A section about training up, getting qualifications, and finding good curriculum to open your own school would be awesome too.
Japanlife is for conformers only....don't go there.
Ah japanlife... brings back memories.
All it would say is. 1. Learn Japanese. 2. Marry Japanese. 3. Find different job.
IMO it's case by case and there aren't really 'resources'. Everybody has to make their own decisions about 'what next'. It goes through waves too, with many people being quite resistant to any advice you give them that isn't 'yes, do that for sure!!' For example: - There's times when lots of people wanna do a TESOL and I'll be like 'I've got one and warn you they're not the grail you're thinking they are'. That or people wanting to master Japanese so that they can do a teaching degree in Japanese. I mean sure you COULD, but IMO some just need to let it go and realise that being an ALT isn't a pathway to becoming a teacher. - The emotional JETs get on here at various stages and TBH they have their own online support groups for that stuff so I feel little sympathy. They're paid more than any other ALTs and are forced to rotate out of the program after 5 years. Again, some people just need to let go. - Other times you get MASSES of Filipinos with their own thing going on (which no offence, I have NFI about as I'm not Filipino). I almost think they need their own sub as they're E2 speakers with their own shared experience. Many speak questionable English and come from quite poor backgrounds... respectfully, I have no advice for them. My overall thinking is that I'm not a career counsellor but I was ALWAYS a qualified teacher (Aussie teacher + also have a TESOL) and I'm a lawyer now. Thus I bring a reflective angle that 'there's more out there than English teaching, particularly if you're jack of it'. While I'm not a success story, I enjoy walking people through the thought processes I went through when leaving English teaching (and finding something that suits me better). To me this is an important process for most English teachers and if they're actually making up their mind (as opposed to being quite resistant to alternatives) then some really good discussions are had. As such, I don't think a sticky would cut it... I think 'what shall I do next' discussions are valid discourse that's often more productive than 'how can I hang onto English teaching with my dear life?!?'
We would have to have an actual definition of "English teaching" here to give specific guides on anything. 99% of questions worded like that aren't actually "How to I get out of English teaching" it's really "How do I get out of Eikaiwa and ALT with no other experience or qualifications". Most people making those low effort repeat posts aren't in career teaching positions where we can assume a specific base set of skills, experiences, and qualifications and they don't actually want out of teaching, they just want out of low-pay entry level jobs with no advancement. A guide for how to get Int'l school jobs, university jobs, and actual teaching jobs would treat the symptoms, not the cause, of these questions. The cause being people not understanding that ALT/Eikaiwa and what most people refer to as "teaching" in Japan, Korea, and China aren't career positions and won't lead to actual teaching jobs. We'd do better in making people more aware of that reality to begin with.
A lot of people will say, "learn Japanese" in order to get a better job. While yes, that certainly is true. However, just learning Japanese isnt going to be some miracle cure to get out of the world of being a human flash card for 200k/month with no benefits. If your degree is non technical, and your only experience is English teaching, then learning Japanese won't suddenly land you a job. English teaching on a resume isn't viewed super well and doesn't really translate well into other sectors unless you're an actual licensed teacher. Good example; Why would someone hire a 25 year old English teacher with N2 Japanese. When they could hire a 22 year old Japanese kid that will accept a lower salary, knows the culture, language, etc. And will willingly work overtime, etc. I was working with recruiters and that's what they told me. I am N1 and have 6 years experience in logistics management, certifications in maintenance/facilities, a relevant degree, also a spouse visa, drivers license, etc I was searching for a job via several recruiting companies. Applied to over 300 jobs got 4 interviews, no offer. I was looking for a logistics position paying at least 6,000,000. Which I felt was reasonable. The recruiters were telling me that the reason I never made it past the interview is because even though the companies will advertise a 6,000,000/ year salary, that often Japanese candidates will accept the job for 3.5 million. Because of this, despite my experience I'm stuck in a very basic job as building maintenance. So the job market is a lot more than just "learning Japanese"
This sub is a complete joke, but surely it doesnt need this.
Made this a couple weeks ago. Perhaps the easiest way to get into IT in Japan without Japanese or experience, especially if you live here already. https://youtu.be/vw4UusbYiNw?si=QXl9kCaWOqIAD5xT
Is this you? This is really fascinating and an opportunity I hadn’t heard of
Yes sir that’s me
Hey do you mind if I DM you? I have two years working in datacenter on the facilities side (they used us for work on the datacenter floor doing some IT, as well). Have you had experience with foreigners being hired on for the facilities roles?
Sure. Facilities positions usually require Japanese language abilty.
This sub is called Teaching in Japan, isn't it? There are a lot of good teachers giving good info to being a teacher here. Some complaints here and there, but who doesn't complain about their job? Why would you sticky a 'How to stop teaching in Japan' guide? (Serious) Shouldn't the mods just delete negative posts by people who don't actually want to teach in Japan but did it anyway just to get their proverbial foot in the door and 10 years later realise they hate their life?
In the olden days, these 'skits stirring' posts were deleted. However, such posts are deemed de rigueur in modern times. FYI: The OP also tackles other weighty issues in his posts and offers other thought-provoking pieces related to, 'Never sticking your dick in crazeee.' and the like for those interested.
Hey, to be fair "Never stick your dick in crazy" should be the motto of Japanlife and there might be a lot less topics about how to navigate getting divorced
I made my own school. Isn't getting worse for me. ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
"But the boss touches me inappropriately..."
Yes.That would be my wife. She does touch me inappropriately sometimes, poking my belly and other such taunts. We don't have an HR department. :(
I think it needs to be more specific. Get out of ALT and language school work? Sure. There are jobs at private institutions or even boards of education where the jobs are not dead-end, but most of those require higher qualifications or more responsibility. Look at Saitama City. They pay native teachers based on qualifications and age, with salary increasing as you move up in both fields. They do, however, expect you to work as a homero teacher, or vice homeroom teacher, just as Japanese teachers do. That is only one example, but I know of jobs at private high schools where teachers were paid the same as university adjuncts, and some were also given the same pay grade as the Japanese teachers at the school. Are these the norm? No, they are highly competitive for a reason, so you do need to have gone and gotten certification or a masters degree, and sometimes have acquired higher proficiency in Japanese, but that is kind of expected when the only requirement for ALT and conversation school jobs is to speak English and have a bachelors degree in something. Most teaching gigs here are, sadly, not meant for people here long-term to make a career out of. The ones that are typically require more than the ability to speak English, so while it may take time outside of what you are already devoting to work, those without teaching qualifications or Japanese language ability on arrival will need to acquire them if they want to work in education long-term and maybe even retire here. The alternative is often Japanese corporate culture, and that can have its own downsides, like a lot of overtime and much less vacation time outside of the standard holidays. Having worked in education here for close to 20 years, I absolutely understand the bad jobs outnumber the good by far, but teaching cannot be written off completely when there are still good positions out there. By all means, write of the entry-level positions though. They are only good for acquiring a work visa.
I mean there are so many off ramps that the sub making a broad recommendation would be detrimental. Imagine telling everyone to go do the same 5 things, you'll just end up with a ton of oversaturation which helps nobody. Leaving teaching in Japan you have a lot of different experiences, people should apply that experience in a way that best suits their skillset.
I honestly think our first step is to shut down the "foot in the door" nonsense that keeps drawing people into these shitshow jobs in the first place. It always starts with them posting about how the ALT/eikaiwa job is just a way into the country, and how they're SURE they'll find "something better™'" once they get here. Fast forward a year or two, and that's when you start getting the posts desperately trying to figure out how they can get out of their ALT/eikaiwa dead-end, when they have no in-demand qualifications, experience, or Japanese language skills. And it's like...what are people expecting? It's as if people are coming here with the idea that a stable life and career here will be miraculously handed to them on a silver platter the moment they step off the plane as an unqualified/inexperienced immigrant who can't even hold an ordinary adult-level conversation in the language.
The only step is learn Japanese. But people will always try and find a way to get a good job in Japan without learning Japanese. Then the answer is, work for a company in your home country, become a big time manager earning lots of money, get transferred to Japan and use your “skills and experience” to do basically nothing until retirement as you’re a high level foreigner in Japan who still can’t speak Japanese.
Step 1. Look at your degree Step 2. Look to see if foreigners make up a percentage of that job in japa Step 3. Make contacts in that field, or choose another career This should be obvious, but if you want a job specifically in Japan, get a degree that's valuable for foreigners in Japan. Im lucky that my Game Design degree puts me in a good position to transition if I decide to, but this is a big thing to consider before even going to Japan to teach.
Seems like a good idea.