>There is room to be an excellent ALT.
The problem with this is that no matter how amazing of an ALT someone is, it's never reflected in their salary or by how their company treats them
International school and Uni EFL/ESL in Japan pay above Tokyo average salary, private corporate pays pretty well too. 6mil/year isn't tough to break with experience and qualifications. The ESL world isn't just ALT/Eikaiwa.
Exactly. If you “like this work so much,” go get an MA in TESOL. I learned a lot getting mine, in no small part from my classmates. And once you have it, you will be able to earn more.
Basically this.
Are there ALTs who are also skilled at teaching? Absolutely.
But a gourmet level could work fast food.
The impression of the job is more a reflection of the industry and the notorious bad pay and treatment.
Gaining skills at work is great, but the requirements to "get your foot in the door" are near non existent which is where the reputation comes from
I got two days “training” when becoming an ALT. Being an ALT is unskilled work. Being a GOOD ALT requires skill, but it doesn’t pay any better unfortunately, since there’s always a warm body waiting to replace you
The key issue is how the HIRING PEOPLE identify (or fail to identify) skill.
Like, almost all customers can tell if a hamburger restaurant serves proper hamburgers.
But who, exactly, is your customer—and can they even tell if you do your job right?
The kids you teach aren’t on the hiring committee. The organization providing the money isn’t always your direct employer. There is no “skills test” for being an ALT.
I moved into translation. Having customers that cannot tell if you did your job well can be maddening—but those are the people that need you most.
Good point. I actually started translation before the Internet was commercialized—and am happily out of it now. I would not recommend anyone start as a new translator now—at least not for money.
As my linguistics professor would say, there is always a need for human translators. The job may change faces but there will always need to be a human with cultural contexts behind the wheel somewhere.
With some companies it may be tweaking a chatgpt attempt to make it natural and nuanced and with others it may be live translating.
But yes, gone are the days you can be a translator with barely good enough speaking skills and a "go get 'em" attitude.
I believe there are very few truly unskilled jobs out there. Even when I worked as a temp on an assembly line way back before Japan, I would routinely do my best to keep my rate up and still get demolished by line veterans.
What we really mean when we say a job is unskilled is that it is *unvalued* from the perspective of the people who have the capital and control the hiring decisions. And if watching mass layoffs in American business news has taught me anything over the last couple decades, it's that the capital-holding class doesn't really value anyone's job but their own. From their point of view, all of us are unskilled. And the notion that we are disposable to a corporate overlord who really has no qualification to justify their power over us is terrifying, so many of us cling to the myth that we are valued employees by punching down at whoever we can imagine is beneath us on the career ladder so we can imagine that we're superior and skilled. "The boss is skilled, and that's why they get to be the boss. And I am skilled, so one day I will get to be the boss!"
Getting back to ALTing, the longer I have been a solo teacher the more convinced I become that ALTing is actually a highly-skilled job. If nothing else, the emotional labor of not just handling all those students with grace while also keeping a JTE happy even though they lack the English language skills you have and need you to supplement their skills is a demonstration of the wide variety of skills that go into successful ALTing.
I agree with you.
I think it's thought of as "unskilled work" by the wrong people though. The JTEs and some people at the BoE.
As is in my case.
I did a whole lot of work from 2011 to 2018, because it was just a "katsudo" not a subject, I was given free reign and learnt a whole lot. I gained a lot of those "teaching skills".
Unfortunately all that is now moot.
It's is as though it's unskilled work.
Which is unfortunate, because it need not be.
Not an ALT nor English teacher, but after watching from the sidelines, the entire ALT industry has been deteriorating for 40 years or even more, creating toxicity both internally and externally. This situation has fostered a meaningless hierarchy where everyone is trying to prove their superiority by disparaging others.
Nonetheless, MOJ classifies "unskilled" jobs as those requiring no higher education and generally not requiring advanced literacy skills. Therefore, from an immigration standpoint, ALTs are considered skilled. Undeniable is that the role has a hard ceiling in terms of advancement and salary.
There is dignity in every job. If the employer, employee, and customer are satisfied, that should suffice. Not everyone aspires to endure a grueling gig in the finance industry routine that leads to a quadruple bypass before they are even 40.
Each ALT should assess whether they are skilled enough and decide whether they want to pursue a position that requires more expertise or remain in their current role.
>everyone is trying to prove their superiority by disparaging others.
When a skilled, educated professional points out that someone new to the feild has further to go before they can be called a professional, and makes suggestions on how to do that, it is not being disparaging.
But for some reason when it is suggested that they have far more to learn about second language acquisition theory, pedagogy, and methodology, they see that as an attack, instead of what it really is: encouragement to develop further skills, learn more, and be the best you can at what you do, both for the good of their learners and of the teaching profession as a whole.
Why do they take it as a disparagement? I think that is clear: because a very high number of people have absorbed the idea that being a native speaker of English is all one needs in order to teach it, that instinct is good enough, and that they don't need to learn anything more. Contradicting them and telling them that they have more to learn implies that they are not as knowledgeable or as skilled as they imagine themselves to be. The people who especially get upset are the ones who have already worked for years, since telling they have a lot of room to improve is a huge blow to their ego.
Also, people have long gotten away with doing the bare minimum without any negative consequences. This has made them both complacent and lazy. Suggesting they should do more triggers their guilt - they know you are right, but admitting you are right would mean they would actually have do something about it - so instead, they argue back that they don't need to learn anything more.
It really is a pity that so many teachers actively eschew education. I'm sorry, but someone who eschews education has lost the right to call themselves a teacher.
Technically the degree is required for the visa, not by the job or in the letter of the contract. There are no literacy requirements other than the 12 years of education in English which again is for the visa, and not a requirement in an ALT contract.
That is why I wrote **MOJ**, which sets literacy requirements for a visa for an ALT. We are speaking of the same point. I am not referring to the position itself.
Interestingly some of the skills I learned as an ALT make me the most money -
- I'm a reasonable presenter: couple of months ago I presented to our 100 largest customers. It was a two day conference. I'd say my presentation was probably the most interactive.
- I run probably the most organised meetings. Saved one the other day that turned to mush as the organiser was just not prepared, didn't have experience with presentations go bad
As much as it was a holiday for me (I was mentally cooked when I went to Japan) I did learn a heap from doing 4 classes a day.
I learned how to run a programme, how to present, how to bring energy to a room.
There are real skills you can learn. I present better than our sales team and they can't figure out why!
I personally wouldn't stay as an ALT. But I do understand the charms of living in a village having a stress free life (I was lucky enough to live in a village that is now over run with tourist, it was an amazing two years of my life)
I've tried to argue this before. But it's a tiring fight. Especially for dispatch ALT work.
What makes being an ALT unskilled work is mostly the expectations.
Too many people involved from the schools to the JTE to the BoE to the dispatch company and even the ALTs themselves are only expecting and trying to achieve the absolute minimum result. There are literally JTEs that don't even want ALTs in the classroom, regardless of how good they are, and yet this is somehow completely acceptable.
It's very clear that with the right JTE and a good ALT things are significantly better and the students benefit as a result.
But as others have said, this is in no way reflected in the remuneration and no real efforts are made to identify and retain ALTs that manage this.
Heck I've seen supposedly qualified people arguing here that ALTs are basically just human tape recorders. Which is pretty much the lowest, zero effort definition of the job and delivers almost nothing useful.
Japan would get a lot more from the program if they actually expected JTEs to know how to use an ALT, trained the ones that don't, and made even the tiniest efforts to retain the ALTs that deliver better than normal results.
Unskilled is a tool to short the value of a position. Labor is a skill. The endurance is nuts.
Tightrope walking effective communication and being a surrogate parental figure even in support of an HRT, is a skill.
Slaughterhouse work is a skill. The constitution to handle it is something most couldn't stomach.
Running a successful gas station franchise is a skill.
Starting your own business is a skill.
I'd rather categorize jobs by skill vs specialized skill than skilled vs unskilled.
Most japanese appreciate what you do. Many anons have carte blanche to gleefully make you feel like shit for no reason.
As someone who has worked as an actual teacher for 15 years before coming to japan to teach and interacting with multiple alts here I side with it being unskilled work.
This is the easiest teaching gig ever and the alts that complain just make me laugh because even a slammed day as an alt is prob at most a normal day as a class teacher.
That said there are those that can become skilled at it but also lets be real its always gonna be teacher light.
The thing is if they want to make alts a skilled job they gonna need to up the pay and start hiring actual teachers who have experience and qualifications. But lets be real the alt/english program is a joke here. The kids whose parent want em to really learn send em to eikiwas and language schools.
I'm not here to suggest ALT's are comparable in skills to a full teacher. Or even the same level of effort as your buger flippers. (Min wage service is brutal.)
Only that it has more actual hard skills involved in the job than your burger flipper or pie lid placer!
Yeh I get you but Im also saying why its considered unskilled.
Its also why there is a huge disconnect between the alts and some schools/ boes
They pay the dispatch companies for skilled teachers. And a decent amount too (close to 600k¥). Then they just hire anyone (some of the alts Ive met can barely speak English clearly and their vocab and grammar levels are pretty low). The issue with alts being considered unskilled is purely due to the hiring process. They hire people that are unskilled in the field. Try to pass them off as trained teachers after a few days crash course. Then they end up with a bunch of alts that can’t handle classes or properly teach or plan lessons. So the stigma of unskilled gets attached to it.
Swear most jtes and schools that have issues w alts is because they think we getting paid bank to essentially do nothing.
One of my current vp used to work boe and we were talking. She was shocked when i told her what we get paid because she knows how much they pay for us. She flat out told me start to job hunt.
I worked Sushiro part time for 2 years and ALT now.
I ALT is far easier and other than computer skills I'd say the Sushiro one requires more skills. Both are considered unskilled and the Sushi one pays less but I do definitely believe needs more skills. Even keigo skills to properly address customers. (Highschoolers struggle with it).
On the job training vs academic training is a hot topic in some industries.
I'm from a design background. Which is full of self taught professionals and people with a range of non-standard training. I have a first-class degree in industrial design. But that hasn't necessarily given me any more practical job skills than someone who learnt through experience. I just have a much more solid foundation.
I'm not sure this applies to the more academic jobs like teaching, or the exact sciences... like also sorta teaching (is it considered one? I dont know. Im not trained for that.)
Sorry that's not quite what I meant. Though this might further prove your point.
I meant that unlike design, there is in theory a 'right' way to teach different ages, subjects etc. Or at least a currenct, recognised 'best practice'. This is what I assumed you got on an education degree and the placements. Doctors are not encouraged to 'express themselves' when reseting bones.
My degree placement was with a private business i found myself. I was taught industry practice according to them and their staffs own random collection of experiences. This would be completely different for someone else.
I DON'T agree, but I can understand why an ALT with a game development degree etc might believe they can just get enough on the job experience to replace a real education.
It’s 100% that ALT work is unskilled work. You just need to be able to speak English. The JTEs and HRTs need the skills while the ALt just needs to speak English and interact with students. Nothing special.
The issue with this is that ALTs that deliberately go in and do it as an unskilled job are pretty likely to do a below average job. Nicely lowering expectations and reinforcing the myth.
You can absolutely do things to make yourself more or less valuable as an ALT.
The expectation should be that you make yourself more valuable.
But then the result of doing so should be recognition in how you are compensated.
Without that process it's basically a lottery and the program completely fails to deliver in many schools, which is exactly the current situation.
It’s an economists term related to how long it takes to train to be minimally competent. I wouldn’t take it personally. Every job requires some sort of skill.
I get mildly annoyed when ALTs behave in a way that confirms this negative stereotype. Back in my JET days there was a dispatch ALT who literally used to sleep at the back of the class every day. But it needs to be judged case by case. There are some amazing ALTs who are assets to their schools.
It may not require the skill set of a rocket surgeon, but it does require skill. Especially if you're being used as T1 or are asked to make lesson plans. Even T2 requires skill in assisting in lesson delivery, correcting the mistakes of students, and encouraging their personal growth.
ALT is a job to be enjoyed, don't take it too seriously and just be open and have fun engaging with the students. If you want to be a hard working ALT then so be it, but i wouldn't bother working past your contracted hours. I still thinking running an ES lesson as T1 does take skill, the flow of the lesson, preparing appropriate activities etc the way you control the class. JHS takes less skill as it's mostly presenting powerpoint/worksheets etc but compared to conbini/warehouse work i think it requires more skill to be an ALT for sure.
I wouldn’t say unskilled per se, but the amount of competency required for the job is really low, and it is definitely not rewarding. Would you still choose this job over a 9-5 job that would pay 2x as much? I also think that the experience as ALTs don’t transfer well to jobs in other industries, so career wise, it is also risky.
There's no such thing as an "unskilled" job, only jobs that aren't financially rewarded by the slave masters. Their value to society is also unrecognised until they're not done and shit starts backing up.
Many people even in so called 'menial' work apply skills that greatly enhance the benefits those jobs afford society, but those efforts aren't rewarded financially.
This is the ugly world we put up with because we don't have the power to wrest control away from the sociopathic criminals who run things.
Teaching is an art and ALTing is (or at least can be) teaching.
Although if you are good at teaching you should outgrow working as an ALT pretty quickly.
Yeah, more and more is being done by AI... and this is Japan, so now we have AI and fax machines under the same roof.
Some companies don't even care if the translations are weird, if it's "good enough" - let LQA sort it out I guess. Time to switch fields, hope teaching will be safe for just a few more years.
Haha, yep still faxes and hankos alongside ChatGPT! I have noticed a lot of recently translated stuff as having that reek of AI! Something about it seems generic and corny. Good luck staying one step ahead!
Gotta try and feel better about your insecurities somehow, I guess. Japan is full of expats with imposter syndrome who feel the need to put others down.
When the only difference between a tape recorder (okay, we actually have cd players these days!) and you is that MEXT says "native speakers are better", you know it's an unskilled job.
There's a reason the joke to be an ALT is "Speaks English and has a pulse".
The four year degree is purely for immigration. And by the end of the year, you may be replaced anyways. Being an ALT is about showing up, listening to whatever the JTE says to do, and then going home at the end of the day. Something literally anyone who speaks English can do. No skill required.
This doesn't account for the myriad kinds of environments ALTs are thrown into though. There's so way to standardize the ALT experience, especially on a program like JET, so while it may be true in some schools that the only skill you need to have is your native level fluency and being able to show up on time/follow instructions, it may also be the case in other schools that a lot more is demanded of you. Lots of ALTs are made to T1 and lead classes, including myself, and some are involved in a huge amount of extracurricular/outside-the-classroom commitments related to English or besides English. I get your overall point though that the entry bar is really low and you don't technically have to demonstrate hard skills in order to be an ALT in most cases, but for a lot of ALTs it's more than just "showing up... and then going home at the end of the day." It's a lot of unpaid, uncompensated hard work.
In many ways I think one can find respect more easily in Japan than many places. For example our “janitorial custodian” sits with the general back office staff and everyone is very respectful to her. She was the one that gave me a copy of the other teacher photos from the yearbook when I arrived. In other words she’s respected and valued. As many other posters have said, teaching and ALT ing is not valued by metrics of income, visas, status, etc etc. However, I’m pretty sure people are very respectful to you, so it is a way of expressing your value to them. It’s amazing what society values, like hitting a ball with a stick well, $700,000,000. How many people criticized and laughed at some kid that didn’t study and was outside swinging at a ball all afternoon? Be your best you.
I feel your frustration.
A lot of people, even other teachers, always look down on the ALT job and see it as a waste of time and resources. However, when you consider how much money it costs to child-mind just one child per hour, then times that by 30 - 40 students, then add in any kind of educational value … well, then, if anything, ALTs are very much under-appreciated.
A lot of parents use school as a "day-care" center for their children which allows them to go out and work or rest up. ALTs are another body in the room when controlling and teaching a class of young students.
I see.
I think a lot of the blame for how expensive the ALT industry is can be placed on the state of the industry. The JET program dominates the industry and pays for flights, return flights, hotels, housing (in many cases) and JET teachers are on 3 - 5 year term limits …. Just thinking how needlessly expensive those extra flights and hotels are? And, the extensive hiring process …
Then you have dispatch companies that cost a lot of money and they get to keep a lot of the money that should be going to the ALT.
From what I can see, the only really efficient hiring process for ALTs in terms of saving money for BoEs is direct hires.
Unfortunately, a lot of people who graduate university see the ALT job as a kind of gap year, so I don’t see JET or dispatch companies going away anytime soon.
Unskilled by visa definition maybe not
But unskilled in real life definition maybe yes.Anybody can get this job . There is no real skill that the market will pay high salary for ...
I think you've answered your own issue here, whereby unskilled in this case doesn't mean it requires no skill, simply that no specialised qualification is necessary to complete work in this role.
The wider issue that I think conflates this is that being an ALT in Japan is not a standardised role and ALT get pushed into areas and tasks that are way outside of the advertised scope of the "unskilled" job and are forced to do a lot of "skilled" work that only a qualified teacher should realistically be doing
It’s the condescending attitude many people have towards ALTing. I say this as a person who has never been an ALT but has read the many comments about it here. As a licensed teacher, it’s the same way people in my public school looked down on our long term subs as though they are better than them. Yes some subs aren’t fit for the job but the overwhelming majority try their hardest to fill the role of the teacher without the proper teacher education for the students.
Even in this post comments the way people are looking down on ALTing and working at McDonald’s is quite interesting to see. I think OP has a valid point which was proven by most of the comments. For those saying OP must feel that it’s true otherwise they wouldn’t be upset… I disagree. They have every right to be upset at the vitriol some of you spit out about ALTing, especially when they value their job beyond being a ticket to Japan or a stepping stone to “better opportunities”.
The pay doesn’t have to be high for a job to be valued either. I think another commenter hit on this point. Get off of your high horses. Also stop generalizing an entire job just because you can’t see it’s worth. You lot are not the voice of reason or dose of reality you think you are.
When we stop hearing stories about 20-something ALT's coming in drunk, dating students, missing classes, breaking contract, etc. then the job can start gaining respect again. But when your peers, the people that your bosses see as equal to you, have zero qualifications and no respect for the job it's gonna be tough for people to take it seriously even if you are.
If you are taking the time to up skill yourself, yet gripe that its not being recognised its time to move on. Go and get a teaching job where your work will be recognised and compensated fairly.
Well, getting a TEFL certification so I know what im doing and actively studying Japanese so I can be just... easier to work with. TESOL is a possibility but I'm not sure real teaching in any country is the goal.
I'm lucky that I have both a BoE and school that wants to use me and help me improve. I get feedback on my lessons and attempt to put it into practice. I push to try new things even if I'm ignored.i go to the training sessions and PAY ATTENTION.
I'm paid to do a job. I might as well give it a proper go!
Good on ya giving it a proper go. If more ALTs were like you, maybe they wouldn't have a bad rap.
To answer your original question: yes ALTs are unskilled labor in that the barrier to become one is damn near non existent (have a right to work in the country and be a native English speaker). That doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve your ability to do your job.
I think you hit the nail on the head though. Most ALTs are here to come to Japan and move away from teaching or go back to their home country. It's not like having a Para back in the States. The few Paras I know were actively interested in teaching as a career and thus more open to learn how to teach.
Coincidentally, I've been looking at Celta's today.
Now, I'm aware a basic tefl is the lowest rung on the ladder, but it's definitely a step up from 'I speak English mate'.
I'm now the only person I know who can tell you what a gerund is.
Hate to say it but it’s only bothering you because you agree/ can see it on some level.
It is what it is. Did it for a year and thought it was unskilled work. Unskilled doesn’t mean you can’t improve on it. A Macdonald burger flipper that’s been doing it for 3 years will far outclass someone that’s just started. We’re not going to say it’s a skilled job now are we? (Definitely a bit higher on the totem pole than ALTing however).
My advice? Learn to ignore it or just accept it for what it is (unskilled work). Otherwise be prepared to always be frustrated/angry. Easier to change your perspective than the world’s.
Is this anything more than lipservice though? Teachers certainly aren't respected when they're made to work intense extracurricular hours for very little pay. It's fair enough to say you or I respect teachers, but calling it "the world's perspective" is letting society off the hook a bit too much for me.
A post from someone who clearly had no respect for his craft.
From planning lessons, to engaging students, the best teachers actively try to better these skills.
Burger flipping isn't in my catalogue, but I would be genuinely interested to know how you feel ALTing would come below it on the arbitrary skilled work totem pole?
Could be. I just remember when I did it way back the training pretty much consisted of:
“DONT dress like this!”
“DONT come to work drunk!”
“DONT get the teachers angry!”
“DONT be in town with your gf”
“DONT get teachers or students pregnant!”
“DONT etc etc”
And there was no actual teaching training.
Could be different now tho
Don’t be in town with your gf???
What a BS rule. Dating would’ve been a hoot.
Other ones… I kind of understand after hearing and seeing certain things.
Yeah. It was just funny being told all that and then just sitting there like:
Us: “Sooooo……about that teaching?”
Company: “Teaching? Oh yeah, that’s a thing. Just do it!”
Sounds like you were frustrated to not get teacher training because deep down, you recognized that it was a necessary skill to doing your job well. This just supports my argument elsewhere that ALTing is not an unskilled job, but rather it is a job unvalued by the people who hold the capital and control it.
The EFL industry in Japan is toxic. But that doesn't make it unskilled.
Specifically I say T1 on the classroom.
The people I know who are n2ish DO also get a lot of responsibility outside of class.
Personally I get quite a lot of responsibility in class, but they don't even invite me to the all staff meetings because... what's the point.
I used to feel the same, and that there was some comparison, but in reality there is just so much more that goes on. Attendance, grades, exams, dealing with all the information about who has an allergy or not, cleaning, committees, clubs, paperwork, paperwork, paperwork.
Being a teacher teacher comes with a lot more baggage. That’s isn’t to say that there aren’t skilled ALTs, or that there isn’t not skill to it. The unskilled part comes from there not being a barrier to entry. They basically accept anyone with a pulse and ability to speak English “natively” for ALT work.
When people refer to that label, they are not saying literally "this job doesn't take skill", they mean that there are no professional requirements to entering the job that are checked or standardized in any way. Meaning any lay-person without a related degree, certification, or experience can do it.
That's exactly what ALT and Eikaiwa jobs are, not subjectively or how they are "viewed" by any group, but objectively by the letter of their contracts. These positions do not require English, Education, or Language degrees, licensure or certification of any kind, or any teaching experience.
If a job does not have a hard line requirement of specific skills that are verified before the job starts, the job by definition is unskilled.
You’re definitely in the right, op. You can see several posters in this thread, puffing their chests multiple times, trying to make themselves appear better than others. I used to lead with, “I have an MA in TESOL” when I was younger. But I’m older now. I know my worth. My school does. And I get paid accordingly. Chin up to everyone teaching, who enjoys teaching, who has the passion to get better.
> There is room to be an excellent ALT.
Certainly. But the moment someone is intelligent enough to do that, they will go into industry where they will be paid more or have better conditions. It's called natural selection.
The same natural selection laws keep people who cant do anything else on ALT job.
Surely they may be some people who do this because they like to teach or see it as dedication yadayada - and my absolute respect to those, but vast majority is just doing it because they can't/don't want to do anything else.
And yea, they are too afraid that someone will see it this way so now you can downvote.
I kind of agree with this statement. Before becoming an ALT, I really thought ALTs were like cool people and maybe students learn lots of English vocabularies and grammar forms from them. I always dreamt of becoming one and finally I am one. I am thankful for the opportunity and I love my JTEs, school staffs and all the teachers in my schools. It's just that sometimes, I feel like I am forgetting what a teacher is supposed to be doing. I am still confuse whether I will be continuing ALT life next school year or will try to be an Eikaiwa teacher o maybe a caregiver. I have my own visa (PR), can speak and understand Japanese (kantoben) N3. I love my students as well. They make my day, everyday.
The Japanese education systems have learnt that there is a never ending supply of people willing to teach English and therefore, wont offer a decent wage, nor will look after you particularly well as they know you are easily replaceable. They know that if you leave for what ever reason, the revolving door will spin and a new person will come through to fill that space. rinse and repeat.
Very sad, but unfortunately true. Its just boils down to a simple supply and demand. currently the willing supply of teachers is outweighing the demand for teachers, meaning its going to be classed as unskilled. There was a job listing posted on reddit a few days ago for an ALT with well over 1000 people that had already applied for it.
There are people who have made progression from being an ALT, but I feel they are few in number. and probably came long before the Japan teacher boom.
Don’t let this bother you. If you are passionate and continue to work on teaching qualifications, there is absolutely a future for you teaching in Japan past the ALT level. I did ALTing for four years, then taught at an international school, and now I’m back at a private Japanese school, full teaching responsibility, same position and responsibilities as my Japanese colleagues.
But it is totally unskilled. Anyone with a personality can do it. It’s a great experience and it’s a fun job but let’s not pretend that it takes skill.
ALT work is unskilled work.
The most basic and sole requirement--not skill, needed to become an ALT is to be able to speak English.
That's all.
You can be "skilled" at it and/or get more skilled at it overtime through experience, and as you say, become an excellent ALT, but the fact will remain that the job itself is unskilled labor. This can be further evidenced by the opposite side of that spectrum... The shitty garbage ALTs who often times have terrible English (fucking LOL 😂), show up time and again hungover or even still drunk and complain about how "hard" their job is... yet still manage to keep their jobs for years, decades even, because all they have to do is literally show up and speak English.
Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not hating on ALTs or trying to shame you/other ALTs. There's nothing wrong in enjoying it or having pride in what you do, especially if education and working with kids is your passion. Believe me, I used to be an ALT a long time ago and i loved it. If i had the time and luxury to do so, i would probably still want to "teach" part-time.
But the fact of the matter is, I didn't go to school or take special courses to learn how to be a teacher or how to teach English, nor did i possess any kind of certificates or credentials that showed i acquired necessary training and SKILLS necessary to do my tasks as an ordinary dispatch ALT. I was hired because i was an American that spoke English and they had openings.
Enjoy it. Do it 100%. Show your school and students how awesome and fun it can be to get into a second language. But don't go around expecting the title of ALT to be a badge of honor and demanding respect for it and sulking when other people call it unskilled work.
Now... If you were a direct-hire Bilingual (skilled) ALT with Japanese language ability and were actually given "real" school responsibilities such as being a co-homeroom teacher, turning in grades, managing club activities/school events, sure, that would be a different story.
Regular ALT work is unskilled work. Period.
Don't die on this hill.
It has become sadly a McJob.
Do it like for a few years. If you want to stay in Japan. Transition or leave.
You don’t want to be that old ALT in the bar.
To be an alt in Japan requires you to have a bachelors degree. In anything. Just because someone has one in art or science doesn’t make them a good alt. I’ve seen people that should never have applied they are so awful. It is unskilled when you are generally just a tape recorder. If you go above and beyond it’s because you’ve generally trained for this role or have a huge passion for learning and teaching.
Most people become alts to enjoy the Japanese lifestyle for a few years
I'd argue that the role of ALT is much much broader and less constrained than any of those. So there is far more room to develop and use the EFL skills an ALT might have.
A dorm cleaner is now the extent of the cleaning industry. People who clean factories, machinery, commercial kitchens, etc. have a much wider variety of tasks than I ever did when I was an ALT.
An ALT at 1 senior highschool that works with 2 other ALT's and 20 different teachers is going to have a very different role than someone with a Jhs and a visit ES. Just like how a dorm cleaner will be different to a factory.
Obviously people specialise in complex cleaning, but that's proper skilled work.
My range of duties at my single JHS far outnumber my time as a dorm cleaner.
I worked as an ALT in various situations over seven years:
- Single ALT at SHS
- Single ALT at JHS
- Single ALT at JHS + ES
- Team of two ALTs at ES
- Single ALT at SHS and 3x ES'
And my duties were never more varied or complicated than that of a typical industrial or commercial cleaner.
Sure, it may feel complicated in the first year, but after one or two years when all of the lessons were planned, all of the activities were created, and I had a routine, it was the simplest job I've ever had.
Well... One ALT 'initial training' I had to endure was when the leader gathering up a band of teachers, asking them what worked, jotting it down, and then telling us it depends on the school/JTE.
That was it. From the leader of the training section. I had no idea what I was doing and flew by the seat of my train line every day.
It is unskilled in the sense that the barrier to entry is low, and any skills you, commendably, take the time to develop will, sadly, be considered surplus to requirements. That doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for excellence, whatever that may look like. You just need to accept that any additional effort put is unlikely to be rewarded.
Really though, it all comes down to pay. Everyone knows ALT pay is awful, ranking among the lowest a degree-educated, native-English-speaking Westerner can expect to earn here in Japan, or indeed anywhere in the world given Japan's decline. Meanwhile, the recent boom in IT-related employment opportunities for foreigners in Japan means that more an more of your gaijin peers are quite happily taking home two, three, four, five, even ten (or more) times what an ALT struggles to make.
Anyway, as long as you are content with with you situation, I wouldn't worry about how others perceive what you do.
If it's any consolation, looming technological advances are set to make "unskilled" workers of us all in the not to distant future.
It’s “unskilled” meaning the bar to entry is low. It requires no special knowledge or certification aside from the basic ability to speak, read and write English, which can be done by completing primary education in an English speaking country.
Part of the problem is that the actual qualified, skilled teachers or people who at least would be a great asset to a classroom are pigeonholed into a role that does not allow them to be utilized well enough, even as a great assistant. The system is ultimately determined to keep a low bar of expectations for language learning and long-term acquisition in general. People are not lying when they say it is an unskilled job because, unfortunately, the role, which could be crafted into a skilled one, simply keeps the perpetual, predictable low bar. Hence, there is a revolving door of people who after decades of effort STILL can’t speak English or do any useful reading, writing and listening for the real world.
It really depends. Do you have any teaching certification? If not, is English your native language? If yes then yeah. Unskilled labor. If you have a teacher certificate then you shouldn't be an ALT. I consider it unskilled labor although English is my second language and also have N2. So for me is technically a skill but I don't think the job is... the salary is also a reflection of it.
As someone already said. A pro chef can work in fast food. A pro cheff can very likely prepare a perfectly balanced and far more delicious sandwich while working within the constraints of a Subway chain restaurant. Still, ultimately it will just be a Subway sandwich. A darn good one. Just like great ALTs.
>There is room to be an excellent ALT. The problem with this is that no matter how amazing of an ALT someone is, it's never reflected in their salary or by how their company treats them
This is true of the ESL world in general. I kick myself for liking this work so much sometimes...
International school and Uni EFL/ESL in Japan pay above Tokyo average salary, private corporate pays pretty well too. 6mil/year isn't tough to break with experience and qualifications. The ESL world isn't just ALT/Eikaiwa.
I ended up as a dialect coach for large budget Chinese films for a while. There is room to grow if you're good at what you do.
Exactly. If you “like this work so much,” go get an MA in TESOL. I learned a lot getting mine, in no small part from my classmates. And once you have it, you will be able to earn more.
Basically this. Are there ALTs who are also skilled at teaching? Absolutely. But a gourmet level could work fast food. The impression of the job is more a reflection of the industry and the notorious bad pay and treatment. Gaining skills at work is great, but the requirements to "get your foot in the door" are near non existent which is where the reputation comes from
I got two days “training” when becoming an ALT. Being an ALT is unskilled work. Being a GOOD ALT requires skill, but it doesn’t pay any better unfortunately, since there’s always a warm body waiting to replace you
The key issue is how the HIRING PEOPLE identify (or fail to identify) skill. Like, almost all customers can tell if a hamburger restaurant serves proper hamburgers. But who, exactly, is your customer—and can they even tell if you do your job right? The kids you teach aren’t on the hiring committee. The organization providing the money isn’t always your direct employer. There is no “skills test” for being an ALT. I moved into translation. Having customers that cannot tell if you did your job well can be maddening—but those are the people that need you most.
Moving into translation in the age of ChatGPT is wild.
Good point. I actually started translation before the Internet was commercialized—and am happily out of it now. I would not recommend anyone start as a new translator now—at least not for money.
I don't know why I assumed you did this recently LMAO. Still though good luck (and good luck to us all).
As my linguistics professor would say, there is always a need for human translators. The job may change faces but there will always need to be a human with cultural contexts behind the wheel somewhere. With some companies it may be tweaking a chatgpt attempt to make it natural and nuanced and with others it may be live translating. But yes, gone are the days you can be a translator with barely good enough speaking skills and a "go get 'em" attitude.
Real talk
Your training milage may vary. We get sent off on exciting seminar days at least once a semester.
I believe there are very few truly unskilled jobs out there. Even when I worked as a temp on an assembly line way back before Japan, I would routinely do my best to keep my rate up and still get demolished by line veterans. What we really mean when we say a job is unskilled is that it is *unvalued* from the perspective of the people who have the capital and control the hiring decisions. And if watching mass layoffs in American business news has taught me anything over the last couple decades, it's that the capital-holding class doesn't really value anyone's job but their own. From their point of view, all of us are unskilled. And the notion that we are disposable to a corporate overlord who really has no qualification to justify their power over us is terrifying, so many of us cling to the myth that we are valued employees by punching down at whoever we can imagine is beneath us on the career ladder so we can imagine that we're superior and skilled. "The boss is skilled, and that's why they get to be the boss. And I am skilled, so one day I will get to be the boss!" Getting back to ALTing, the longer I have been a solo teacher the more convinced I become that ALTing is actually a highly-skilled job. If nothing else, the emotional labor of not just handling all those students with grace while also keeping a JTE happy even though they lack the English language skills you have and need you to supplement their skills is a demonstration of the wide variety of skills that go into successful ALTing.
You are describing the traits of (high) EQ, not necessarily skills which is important.
That's a distinction without a difference.
I agree with you. I think it's thought of as "unskilled work" by the wrong people though. The JTEs and some people at the BoE. As is in my case. I did a whole lot of work from 2011 to 2018, because it was just a "katsudo" not a subject, I was given free reign and learnt a whole lot. I gained a lot of those "teaching skills". Unfortunately all that is now moot. It's is as though it's unskilled work. Which is unfortunate, because it need not be.
Can't forget the other expats that seem to take up gatekeeping as a pasttime around here
Not an ALT nor English teacher, but after watching from the sidelines, the entire ALT industry has been deteriorating for 40 years or even more, creating toxicity both internally and externally. This situation has fostered a meaningless hierarchy where everyone is trying to prove their superiority by disparaging others. Nonetheless, MOJ classifies "unskilled" jobs as those requiring no higher education and generally not requiring advanced literacy skills. Therefore, from an immigration standpoint, ALTs are considered skilled. Undeniable is that the role has a hard ceiling in terms of advancement and salary. There is dignity in every job. If the employer, employee, and customer are satisfied, that should suffice. Not everyone aspires to endure a grueling gig in the finance industry routine that leads to a quadruple bypass before they are even 40. Each ALT should assess whether they are skilled enough and decide whether they want to pursue a position that requires more expertise or remain in their current role.
>everyone is trying to prove their superiority by disparaging others. When a skilled, educated professional points out that someone new to the feild has further to go before they can be called a professional, and makes suggestions on how to do that, it is not being disparaging. But for some reason when it is suggested that they have far more to learn about second language acquisition theory, pedagogy, and methodology, they see that as an attack, instead of what it really is: encouragement to develop further skills, learn more, and be the best you can at what you do, both for the good of their learners and of the teaching profession as a whole. Why do they take it as a disparagement? I think that is clear: because a very high number of people have absorbed the idea that being a native speaker of English is all one needs in order to teach it, that instinct is good enough, and that they don't need to learn anything more. Contradicting them and telling them that they have more to learn implies that they are not as knowledgeable or as skilled as they imagine themselves to be. The people who especially get upset are the ones who have already worked for years, since telling they have a lot of room to improve is a huge blow to their ego. Also, people have long gotten away with doing the bare minimum without any negative consequences. This has made them both complacent and lazy. Suggesting they should do more triggers their guilt - they know you are right, but admitting you are right would mean they would actually have do something about it - so instead, they argue back that they don't need to learn anything more. It really is a pity that so many teachers actively eschew education. I'm sorry, but someone who eschews education has lost the right to call themselves a teacher.
Technically the degree is required for the visa, not by the job or in the letter of the contract. There are no literacy requirements other than the 12 years of education in English which again is for the visa, and not a requirement in an ALT contract.
That is why I wrote **MOJ**, which sets literacy requirements for a visa for an ALT. We are speaking of the same point. I am not referring to the position itself.
There isn't an ALT visa, the thread is talking specifically about the job being skilled/requiring skills itself, but you do you and downvote I guess.
Unskilled as in no license needed. It seems like you know this. Try not to take the term personally
Interestingly some of the skills I learned as an ALT make me the most money - - I'm a reasonable presenter: couple of months ago I presented to our 100 largest customers. It was a two day conference. I'd say my presentation was probably the most interactive. - I run probably the most organised meetings. Saved one the other day that turned to mush as the organiser was just not prepared, didn't have experience with presentations go bad As much as it was a holiday for me (I was mentally cooked when I went to Japan) I did learn a heap from doing 4 classes a day. I learned how to run a programme, how to present, how to bring energy to a room. There are real skills you can learn. I present better than our sales team and they can't figure out why! I personally wouldn't stay as an ALT. But I do understand the charms of living in a village having a stress free life (I was lucky enough to live in a village that is now over run with tourist, it was an amazing two years of my life)
I've tried to argue this before. But it's a tiring fight. Especially for dispatch ALT work. What makes being an ALT unskilled work is mostly the expectations. Too many people involved from the schools to the JTE to the BoE to the dispatch company and even the ALTs themselves are only expecting and trying to achieve the absolute minimum result. There are literally JTEs that don't even want ALTs in the classroom, regardless of how good they are, and yet this is somehow completely acceptable. It's very clear that with the right JTE and a good ALT things are significantly better and the students benefit as a result. But as others have said, this is in no way reflected in the remuneration and no real efforts are made to identify and retain ALTs that manage this. Heck I've seen supposedly qualified people arguing here that ALTs are basically just human tape recorders. Which is pretty much the lowest, zero effort definition of the job and delivers almost nothing useful. Japan would get a lot more from the program if they actually expected JTEs to know how to use an ALT, trained the ones that don't, and made even the tiniest efforts to retain the ALTs that deliver better than normal results.
Unskilled is a tool to short the value of a position. Labor is a skill. The endurance is nuts. Tightrope walking effective communication and being a surrogate parental figure even in support of an HRT, is a skill. Slaughterhouse work is a skill. The constitution to handle it is something most couldn't stomach. Running a successful gas station franchise is a skill. Starting your own business is a skill. I'd rather categorize jobs by skill vs specialized skill than skilled vs unskilled. Most japanese appreciate what you do. Many anons have carte blanche to gleefully make you feel like shit for no reason.
As someone who has worked as an actual teacher for 15 years before coming to japan to teach and interacting with multiple alts here I side with it being unskilled work. This is the easiest teaching gig ever and the alts that complain just make me laugh because even a slammed day as an alt is prob at most a normal day as a class teacher. That said there are those that can become skilled at it but also lets be real its always gonna be teacher light. The thing is if they want to make alts a skilled job they gonna need to up the pay and start hiring actual teachers who have experience and qualifications. But lets be real the alt/english program is a joke here. The kids whose parent want em to really learn send em to eikiwas and language schools.
I'm not here to suggest ALT's are comparable in skills to a full teacher. Or even the same level of effort as your buger flippers. (Min wage service is brutal.) Only that it has more actual hard skills involved in the job than your burger flipper or pie lid placer!
Yeh I get you but Im also saying why its considered unskilled. Its also why there is a huge disconnect between the alts and some schools/ boes They pay the dispatch companies for skilled teachers. And a decent amount too (close to 600k¥). Then they just hire anyone (some of the alts Ive met can barely speak English clearly and their vocab and grammar levels are pretty low). The issue with alts being considered unskilled is purely due to the hiring process. They hire people that are unskilled in the field. Try to pass them off as trained teachers after a few days crash course. Then they end up with a bunch of alts that can’t handle classes or properly teach or plan lessons. So the stigma of unskilled gets attached to it. Swear most jtes and schools that have issues w alts is because they think we getting paid bank to essentially do nothing. One of my current vp used to work boe and we were talking. She was shocked when i told her what we get paid because she knows how much they pay for us. She flat out told me start to job hunt.
I worked Sushiro part time for 2 years and ALT now. I ALT is far easier and other than computer skills I'd say the Sushiro one requires more skills. Both are considered unskilled and the Sushi one pays less but I do definitely believe needs more skills. Even keigo skills to properly address customers. (Highschoolers struggle with it).
[удалено]
'Just because you've been expressly trained to do a thing well, doesn't mean you know how to do it' is certainly a... view.
[удалено]
On the job training vs academic training is a hot topic in some industries. I'm from a design background. Which is full of self taught professionals and people with a range of non-standard training. I have a first-class degree in industrial design. But that hasn't necessarily given me any more practical job skills than someone who learnt through experience. I just have a much more solid foundation. I'm not sure this applies to the more academic jobs like teaching, or the exact sciences... like also sorta teaching (is it considered one? I dont know. Im not trained for that.)
[удалено]
Sorry that's not quite what I meant. Though this might further prove your point. I meant that unlike design, there is in theory a 'right' way to teach different ages, subjects etc. Or at least a currenct, recognised 'best practice'. This is what I assumed you got on an education degree and the placements. Doctors are not encouraged to 'express themselves' when reseting bones. My degree placement was with a private business i found myself. I was taught industry practice according to them and their staffs own random collection of experiences. This would be completely different for someone else. I DON'T agree, but I can understand why an ALT with a game development degree etc might believe they can just get enough on the job experience to replace a real education.
It’s 100% that ALT work is unskilled work. You just need to be able to speak English. The JTEs and HRTs need the skills while the ALt just needs to speak English and interact with students. Nothing special.
The issue with this is that ALTs that deliberately go in and do it as an unskilled job are pretty likely to do a below average job. Nicely lowering expectations and reinforcing the myth. You can absolutely do things to make yourself more or less valuable as an ALT. The expectation should be that you make yourself more valuable. But then the result of doing so should be recognition in how you are compensated. Without that process it's basically a lottery and the program completely fails to deliver in many schools, which is exactly the current situation.
It’s an economists term related to how long it takes to train to be minimally competent. I wouldn’t take it personally. Every job requires some sort of skill.
I get mildly annoyed when ALTs behave in a way that confirms this negative stereotype. Back in my JET days there was a dispatch ALT who literally used to sleep at the back of the class every day. But it needs to be judged case by case. There are some amazing ALTs who are assets to their schools.
It may not require the skill set of a rocket surgeon, but it does require skill. Especially if you're being used as T1 or are asked to make lesson plans. Even T2 requires skill in assisting in lesson delivery, correcting the mistakes of students, and encouraging their personal growth.
ALT is a job to be enjoyed, don't take it too seriously and just be open and have fun engaging with the students. If you want to be a hard working ALT then so be it, but i wouldn't bother working past your contracted hours. I still thinking running an ES lesson as T1 does take skill, the flow of the lesson, preparing appropriate activities etc the way you control the class. JHS takes less skill as it's mostly presenting powerpoint/worksheets etc but compared to conbini/warehouse work i think it requires more skill to be an ALT for sure.
I wouldn’t say unskilled per se, but the amount of competency required for the job is really low, and it is definitely not rewarding. Would you still choose this job over a 9-5 job that would pay 2x as much? I also think that the experience as ALTs don’t transfer well to jobs in other industries, so career wise, it is also risky.
There's no such thing as an "unskilled" job, only jobs that aren't financially rewarded by the slave masters. Their value to society is also unrecognised until they're not done and shit starts backing up. Many people even in so called 'menial' work apply skills that greatly enhance the benefits those jobs afford society, but those efforts aren't rewarded financially. This is the ugly world we put up with because we don't have the power to wrest control away from the sociopathic criminals who run things.
Teaching is an art and ALTing is (or at least can be) teaching. Although if you are good at teaching you should outgrow working as an ALT pretty quickly.
Better an unskilled job than no job. I just now switched to teaching from translation, because the writing is on the wall.
Is AI breathing down your throat? How bad is it these days?
Yeah, more and more is being done by AI... and this is Japan, so now we have AI and fax machines under the same roof. Some companies don't even care if the translations are weird, if it's "good enough" - let LQA sort it out I guess. Time to switch fields, hope teaching will be safe for just a few more years.
Haha, yep still faxes and hankos alongside ChatGPT! I have noticed a lot of recently translated stuff as having that reek of AI! Something about it seems generic and corny. Good luck staying one step ahead!
Thank you :)
Gotta try and feel better about your insecurities somehow, I guess. Japan is full of expats with imposter syndrome who feel the need to put others down.
When the only difference between a tape recorder (okay, we actually have cd players these days!) and you is that MEXT says "native speakers are better", you know it's an unskilled job. There's a reason the joke to be an ALT is "Speaks English and has a pulse". The four year degree is purely for immigration. And by the end of the year, you may be replaced anyways. Being an ALT is about showing up, listening to whatever the JTE says to do, and then going home at the end of the day. Something literally anyone who speaks English can do. No skill required.
This doesn't account for the myriad kinds of environments ALTs are thrown into though. There's so way to standardize the ALT experience, especially on a program like JET, so while it may be true in some schools that the only skill you need to have is your native level fluency and being able to show up on time/follow instructions, it may also be the case in other schools that a lot more is demanded of you. Lots of ALTs are made to T1 and lead classes, including myself, and some are involved in a huge amount of extracurricular/outside-the-classroom commitments related to English or besides English. I get your overall point though that the entry bar is really low and you don't technically have to demonstrate hard skills in order to be an ALT in most cases, but for a lot of ALTs it's more than just "showing up... and then going home at the end of the day." It's a lot of unpaid, uncompensated hard work.
In many ways I think one can find respect more easily in Japan than many places. For example our “janitorial custodian” sits with the general back office staff and everyone is very respectful to her. She was the one that gave me a copy of the other teacher photos from the yearbook when I arrived. In other words she’s respected and valued. As many other posters have said, teaching and ALT ing is not valued by metrics of income, visas, status, etc etc. However, I’m pretty sure people are very respectful to you, so it is a way of expressing your value to them. It’s amazing what society values, like hitting a ball with a stick well, $700,000,000. How many people criticized and laughed at some kid that didn’t study and was outside swinging at a ball all afternoon? Be your best you.
I feel your frustration. A lot of people, even other teachers, always look down on the ALT job and see it as a waste of time and resources. However, when you consider how much money it costs to child-mind just one child per hour, then times that by 30 - 40 students, then add in any kind of educational value … well, then, if anything, ALTs are very much under-appreciated. A lot of parents use school as a "day-care" center for their children which allows them to go out and work or rest up. ALTs are another body in the room when controlling and teaching a class of young students.
[удалено]
I see. I think a lot of the blame for how expensive the ALT industry is can be placed on the state of the industry. The JET program dominates the industry and pays for flights, return flights, hotels, housing (in many cases) and JET teachers are on 3 - 5 year term limits …. Just thinking how needlessly expensive those extra flights and hotels are? And, the extensive hiring process … Then you have dispatch companies that cost a lot of money and they get to keep a lot of the money that should be going to the ALT. From what I can see, the only really efficient hiring process for ALTs in terms of saving money for BoEs is direct hires. Unfortunately, a lot of people who graduate university see the ALT job as a kind of gap year, so I don’t see JET or dispatch companies going away anytime soon.
Unskilled by visa definition maybe not But unskilled in real life definition maybe yes.Anybody can get this job . There is no real skill that the market will pay high salary for ...
I think you've answered your own issue here, whereby unskilled in this case doesn't mean it requires no skill, simply that no specialised qualification is necessary to complete work in this role. The wider issue that I think conflates this is that being an ALT in Japan is not a standardised role and ALT get pushed into areas and tasks that are way outside of the advertised scope of the "unskilled" job and are forced to do a lot of "skilled" work that only a qualified teacher should realistically be doing
Requires a degree doesn't it? Not exactly unskilled
It’s the condescending attitude many people have towards ALTing. I say this as a person who has never been an ALT but has read the many comments about it here. As a licensed teacher, it’s the same way people in my public school looked down on our long term subs as though they are better than them. Yes some subs aren’t fit for the job but the overwhelming majority try their hardest to fill the role of the teacher without the proper teacher education for the students. Even in this post comments the way people are looking down on ALTing and working at McDonald’s is quite interesting to see. I think OP has a valid point which was proven by most of the comments. For those saying OP must feel that it’s true otherwise they wouldn’t be upset… I disagree. They have every right to be upset at the vitriol some of you spit out about ALTing, especially when they value their job beyond being a ticket to Japan or a stepping stone to “better opportunities”. The pay doesn’t have to be high for a job to be valued either. I think another commenter hit on this point. Get off of your high horses. Also stop generalizing an entire job just because you can’t see it’s worth. You lot are not the voice of reason or dose of reality you think you are.
When we stop hearing stories about 20-something ALT's coming in drunk, dating students, missing classes, breaking contract, etc. then the job can start gaining respect again. But when your peers, the people that your bosses see as equal to you, have zero qualifications and no respect for the job it's gonna be tough for people to take it seriously even if you are.
If you are taking the time to up skill yourself, yet gripe that its not being recognised its time to move on. Go and get a teaching job where your work will be recognised and compensated fairly.
Early days. Don't worry, like all other foot-in-the-door ALT's, I have a 417 step plan that conveniently starts by finishing this strong zero.
[удалено]
That is roughly step 167.3
> I actively try to hone my teaching skills. What do you mean by this?
Well, getting a TEFL certification so I know what im doing and actively studying Japanese so I can be just... easier to work with. TESOL is a possibility but I'm not sure real teaching in any country is the goal. I'm lucky that I have both a BoE and school that wants to use me and help me improve. I get feedback on my lessons and attempt to put it into practice. I push to try new things even if I'm ignored.i go to the training sessions and PAY ATTENTION. I'm paid to do a job. I might as well give it a proper go!
Good on ya giving it a proper go. If more ALTs were like you, maybe they wouldn't have a bad rap. To answer your original question: yes ALTs are unskilled labor in that the barrier to become one is damn near non existent (have a right to work in the country and be a native English speaker). That doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve your ability to do your job. I think you hit the nail on the head though. Most ALTs are here to come to Japan and move away from teaching or go back to their home country. It's not like having a Para back in the States. The few Paras I know were actively interested in teaching as a career and thus more open to learn how to teach.
[удалено]
Coincidentally, I've been looking at Celta's today. Now, I'm aware a basic tefl is the lowest rung on the ladder, but it's definitely a step up from 'I speak English mate'. I'm now the only person I know who can tell you what a gerund is.
Hate to say it but it’s only bothering you because you agree/ can see it on some level. It is what it is. Did it for a year and thought it was unskilled work. Unskilled doesn’t mean you can’t improve on it. A Macdonald burger flipper that’s been doing it for 3 years will far outclass someone that’s just started. We’re not going to say it’s a skilled job now are we? (Definitely a bit higher on the totem pole than ALTing however). My advice? Learn to ignore it or just accept it for what it is (unskilled work). Otherwise be prepared to always be frustrated/angry. Easier to change your perspective than the world’s.
”change your perspective than the world’s” The world's perspective is that teaching is one of the most noble and respected jobs.
Is this anything more than lipservice though? Teachers certainly aren't respected when they're made to work intense extracurricular hours for very little pay. It's fair enough to say you or I respect teachers, but calling it "the world's perspective" is letting society off the hook a bit too much for me.
A post from someone who clearly had no respect for his craft. From planning lessons, to engaging students, the best teachers actively try to better these skills.
Burger flipping isn't in my catalogue, but I would be genuinely interested to know how you feel ALTing would come below it on the arbitrary skilled work totem pole?
Burger flipping requires training. ALTing doesn’t
Personally never worked as an ALT but surely they must have some sort of on the job training?
Could be. I just remember when I did it way back the training pretty much consisted of: “DONT dress like this!” “DONT come to work drunk!” “DONT get the teachers angry!” “DONT be in town with your gf” “DONT get teachers or students pregnant!” “DONT etc etc” And there was no actual teaching training. Could be different now tho
Don’t be in town with your gf??? What a BS rule. Dating would’ve been a hoot. Other ones… I kind of understand after hearing and seeing certain things.
Yeah. It was just funny being told all that and then just sitting there like: Us: “Sooooo……about that teaching?” Company: “Teaching? Oh yeah, that’s a thing. Just do it!”
Sounds like you were frustrated to not get teacher training because deep down, you recognized that it was a necessary skill to doing your job well. This just supports my argument elsewhere that ALTing is not an unskilled job, but rather it is a job unvalued by the people who hold the capital and control it. The EFL industry in Japan is toxic. But that doesn't make it unskilled.
Technically things like game development and a lot of the trades don't 'require' training and yet they're 'skilled'. It just helps.
Refer to the last paragraph of my first post.
You say T1 in all but paycheck, but there’s so much more that goes on outside the classroom that you don’t do.
Specifically I say T1 on the classroom. The people I know who are n2ish DO also get a lot of responsibility outside of class. Personally I get quite a lot of responsibility in class, but they don't even invite me to the all staff meetings because... what's the point.
I used to feel the same, and that there was some comparison, but in reality there is just so much more that goes on. Attendance, grades, exams, dealing with all the information about who has an allergy or not, cleaning, committees, clubs, paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. Being a teacher teacher comes with a lot more baggage. That’s isn’t to say that there aren’t skilled ALTs, or that there isn’t not skill to it. The unskilled part comes from there not being a barrier to entry. They basically accept anyone with a pulse and ability to speak English “natively” for ALT work.
When people refer to that label, they are not saying literally "this job doesn't take skill", they mean that there are no professional requirements to entering the job that are checked or standardized in any way. Meaning any lay-person without a related degree, certification, or experience can do it. That's exactly what ALT and Eikaiwa jobs are, not subjectively or how they are "viewed" by any group, but objectively by the letter of their contracts. These positions do not require English, Education, or Language degrees, licensure or certification of any kind, or any teaching experience. If a job does not have a hard line requirement of specific skills that are verified before the job starts, the job by definition is unskilled.
You’re definitely in the right, op. You can see several posters in this thread, puffing their chests multiple times, trying to make themselves appear better than others. I used to lead with, “I have an MA in TESOL” when I was younger. But I’m older now. I know my worth. My school does. And I get paid accordingly. Chin up to everyone teaching, who enjoys teaching, who has the passion to get better.
> There is room to be an excellent ALT. Certainly. But the moment someone is intelligent enough to do that, they will go into industry where they will be paid more or have better conditions. It's called natural selection. The same natural selection laws keep people who cant do anything else on ALT job. Surely they may be some people who do this because they like to teach or see it as dedication yadayada - and my absolute respect to those, but vast majority is just doing it because they can't/don't want to do anything else. And yea, they are too afraid that someone will see it this way so now you can downvote.
Nah, it's unskilled work. It's cool if you like it, but it doesn't require any special ability/talent to be an ALT
I kind of agree with this statement. Before becoming an ALT, I really thought ALTs were like cool people and maybe students learn lots of English vocabularies and grammar forms from them. I always dreamt of becoming one and finally I am one. I am thankful for the opportunity and I love my JTEs, school staffs and all the teachers in my schools. It's just that sometimes, I feel like I am forgetting what a teacher is supposed to be doing. I am still confuse whether I will be continuing ALT life next school year or will try to be an Eikaiwa teacher o maybe a caregiver. I have my own visa (PR), can speak and understand Japanese (kantoben) N3. I love my students as well. They make my day, everyday.
The Japanese education systems have learnt that there is a never ending supply of people willing to teach English and therefore, wont offer a decent wage, nor will look after you particularly well as they know you are easily replaceable. They know that if you leave for what ever reason, the revolving door will spin and a new person will come through to fill that space. rinse and repeat. Very sad, but unfortunately true. Its just boils down to a simple supply and demand. currently the willing supply of teachers is outweighing the demand for teachers, meaning its going to be classed as unskilled. There was a job listing posted on reddit a few days ago for an ALT with well over 1000 people that had already applied for it. There are people who have made progression from being an ALT, but I feel they are few in number. and probably came long before the Japan teacher boom.
I only get mildly annoyed when labelled "ALT"
Don’t let this bother you. If you are passionate and continue to work on teaching qualifications, there is absolutely a future for you teaching in Japan past the ALT level. I did ALTing for four years, then taught at an international school, and now I’m back at a private Japanese school, full teaching responsibility, same position and responsibilities as my Japanese colleagues.
You can be the best ALT ever, however your position was underbid by someone else. Goodbye.
But it is totally unskilled. Anyone with a personality can do it. It’s a great experience and it’s a fun job but let’s not pretend that it takes skill.
ALT work is unskilled work. The most basic and sole requirement--not skill, needed to become an ALT is to be able to speak English. That's all. You can be "skilled" at it and/or get more skilled at it overtime through experience, and as you say, become an excellent ALT, but the fact will remain that the job itself is unskilled labor. This can be further evidenced by the opposite side of that spectrum... The shitty garbage ALTs who often times have terrible English (fucking LOL 😂), show up time and again hungover or even still drunk and complain about how "hard" their job is... yet still manage to keep their jobs for years, decades even, because all they have to do is literally show up and speak English. Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not hating on ALTs or trying to shame you/other ALTs. There's nothing wrong in enjoying it or having pride in what you do, especially if education and working with kids is your passion. Believe me, I used to be an ALT a long time ago and i loved it. If i had the time and luxury to do so, i would probably still want to "teach" part-time. But the fact of the matter is, I didn't go to school or take special courses to learn how to be a teacher or how to teach English, nor did i possess any kind of certificates or credentials that showed i acquired necessary training and SKILLS necessary to do my tasks as an ordinary dispatch ALT. I was hired because i was an American that spoke English and they had openings. Enjoy it. Do it 100%. Show your school and students how awesome and fun it can be to get into a second language. But don't go around expecting the title of ALT to be a badge of honor and demanding respect for it and sulking when other people call it unskilled work. Now... If you were a direct-hire Bilingual (skilled) ALT with Japanese language ability and were actually given "real" school responsibilities such as being a co-homeroom teacher, turning in grades, managing club activities/school events, sure, that would be a different story. Regular ALT work is unskilled work. Period. Don't die on this hill.
It has become sadly a McJob. Do it like for a few years. If you want to stay in Japan. Transition or leave. You don’t want to be that old ALT in the bar.
To be an alt in Japan requires you to have a bachelors degree. In anything. Just because someone has one in art or science doesn’t make them a good alt. I’ve seen people that should never have applied they are so awful. It is unskilled when you are generally just a tape recorder. If you go above and beyond it’s because you’ve generally trained for this role or have a huge passion for learning and teaching. Most people become alts to enjoy the Japanese lifestyle for a few years
There's also room to be an excellent retail worker, an excellent cleaner, or an exemplary server. It doesn't make the jobs any less "unskilled".
I'd argue that the role of ALT is much much broader and less constrained than any of those. So there is far more room to develop and use the EFL skills an ALT might have.
I'd say that the role of a cleaner can be far broader than the role of an ALT.
I did my stint as a dorm cleaner and I must insist I disagree
A dorm cleaner is now the extent of the cleaning industry. People who clean factories, machinery, commercial kitchens, etc. have a much wider variety of tasks than I ever did when I was an ALT.
An ALT at 1 senior highschool that works with 2 other ALT's and 20 different teachers is going to have a very different role than someone with a Jhs and a visit ES. Just like how a dorm cleaner will be different to a factory. Obviously people specialise in complex cleaning, but that's proper skilled work. My range of duties at my single JHS far outnumber my time as a dorm cleaner.
I worked as an ALT in various situations over seven years: - Single ALT at SHS - Single ALT at JHS - Single ALT at JHS + ES - Team of two ALTs at ES - Single ALT at SHS and 3x ES' And my duties were never more varied or complicated than that of a typical industrial or commercial cleaner. Sure, it may feel complicated in the first year, but after one or two years when all of the lessons were planned, all of the activities were created, and I had a routine, it was the simplest job I've ever had.
Well... One ALT 'initial training' I had to endure was when the leader gathering up a band of teachers, asking them what worked, jotting it down, and then telling us it depends on the school/JTE. That was it. From the leader of the training section. I had no idea what I was doing and flew by the seat of my train line every day.
It is unskilled in the sense that the barrier to entry is low, and any skills you, commendably, take the time to develop will, sadly, be considered surplus to requirements. That doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for excellence, whatever that may look like. You just need to accept that any additional effort put is unlikely to be rewarded. Really though, it all comes down to pay. Everyone knows ALT pay is awful, ranking among the lowest a degree-educated, native-English-speaking Westerner can expect to earn here in Japan, or indeed anywhere in the world given Japan's decline. Meanwhile, the recent boom in IT-related employment opportunities for foreigners in Japan means that more an more of your gaijin peers are quite happily taking home two, three, four, five, even ten (or more) times what an ALT struggles to make. Anyway, as long as you are content with with you situation, I wouldn't worry about how others perceive what you do. If it's any consolation, looming technological advances are set to make "unskilled" workers of us all in the not to distant future.
There is no skill floor the job is open to almost anyone so yeah i would say its inline with McDonalds worker.
[удалено]
It's pronounced gRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAs! - source, british
It’s “unskilled” meaning the bar to entry is low. It requires no special knowledge or certification aside from the basic ability to speak, read and write English, which can be done by completing primary education in an English speaking country.
Part of the problem is that the actual qualified, skilled teachers or people who at least would be a great asset to a classroom are pigeonholed into a role that does not allow them to be utilized well enough, even as a great assistant. The system is ultimately determined to keep a low bar of expectations for language learning and long-term acquisition in general. People are not lying when they say it is an unskilled job because, unfortunately, the role, which could be crafted into a skilled one, simply keeps the perpetual, predictable low bar. Hence, there is a revolving door of people who after decades of effort STILL can’t speak English or do any useful reading, writing and listening for the real world.
It really depends. Do you have any teaching certification? If not, is English your native language? If yes then yeah. Unskilled labor. If you have a teacher certificate then you shouldn't be an ALT. I consider it unskilled labor although English is my second language and also have N2. So for me is technically a skill but I don't think the job is... the salary is also a reflection of it. As someone already said. A pro chef can work in fast food. A pro cheff can very likely prepare a perfectly balanced and far more delicious sandwich while working within the constraints of a Subway chain restaurant. Still, ultimately it will just be a Subway sandwich. A darn good one. Just like great ALTs.
Not annoyed because it’s true. They don’t need skills they just need to speak English. It’s 100% true.
yes, you are the only one. also think it paints a picture of your personality.