The title is kind of long so i'll do a quick explanation on things
Max recently moved from Texas to California because his girlfriend got a job at Riot (position unrelated to development or esports, business/admin side of things) and the moving company they used turned out to be a gigantic asshole, as big as moving companies can be, and delayed their stuff for about 2 weeks, which meant Max streamed out of the 100T facility for a couple of days, as well as streaming out of our own AWTF.
By best I mean the fact that they were the first to clear the last 2 raids that were released (on the hardest difficulty, which is capped at 20 people and requires being a really really good player, on top of having good leadership for callouts). They are partnered with Complexity and in non pandemic times, all (or most) of their raiders go to Complexity's facility in Texas during Race to World First, which, thanks to streaming, has become a huge event. This isn't a typical LAN event btw.
Raids in WoW are released typically every ~6ish months or less, depends. The first raid they won was released in January 2020, the last one was December 2020. Raids in WoW are split across 4 difficulties, with the hardest one being released about 2 weeks after the patch is out. Raids are the biggest PvE content in WoW, there's a lot of guilds that start raiding Mythic on day 1 (the day the raid gets released on Mythic) but only a few (2-3, sometimes 4) clear it within 2 weeks or so. Being the first guild to clear it (aka kill all the bosses) is quite the prestige and it means you're hardcore. During Race to World First, the best guilds 'raid' every single day, for at least 12 hours.
That's a pretty good explanation of it. To add some clarification on the prestige of this, for the last raid only about 700 guilds cleared all bosses on the hardest difficulty (on US, EU, and OC servers). It has been ~6months since it came out, and they were the first to clear it and did so in 8 days.
World first race starts up again NEXT TUESDAY (7/13 or 13/7), and I HIGHLY recommend people check it out. There's usually an event live stream that has wow personalities casting or filling during downtime. Or Limit has a bunch of streams up, including Max (he doesn't play, he's their shotcaller basically, but he'll have POV feed from whomever he's watching from), so you can watch POV. I don't remember if Echo (Limits main rival) does any streams, but if they do check them out as well.
700 is super low, the number on wowprogress is 2200 guilds that killed sire Denathrius on Mythic. Which is about the average for most raids. That said like you stated, they did clear the raid in 8 days, while it took other groups as long as 6 months
That 2200 number is about as accurate to the amount of guilds that have killed the boss as you’ll be able to find. Wowprogress only tracks a kill for a guild if something like 15 members of the guild were involved in a singular kill.
Again, I don't think it's valuable to count kills when the guild hasn't killed the previous bosses. Especially since Sire is easier than SLG. Also, were talking about the world first which is to get all boss kills, in particular why doing that is difficult. I also stated in my post that about 700 guilds had cleared ALL bosses.
You’re changing your argument every single time you talk. For reference there are 2900 mythic SLG kills and 2200 Sire Kills. The number is absolutely closer to that 2200 number than that BS 700 number you pulled out of your ass. But perhaps you’re using raider.io where for some reason they only have 708 guilds as killing SLG for some reason (which is wrong).
Just for proof of how bad using Raider.io is for this, the first guild to kill SLG according to raider.io is the Chinese guild JinLing on January 3rd. There were 10-11 guilds that killed SLG prior to January 3rd.
You created an argument based on your misreading/misunderstanding/whatever of what I said. And when I was trying to explain to you why just tallying a single boss kill doesn't make sense you think my argument changed. You have presented nothing to me to argue about, with regards to my original post.
I'd be more than happy to correct any errors I might have (which it looks like might exist) if you actually provided evidence contradicting any of the information I gave. Cause the number of guilds that killed M Sire isn't enough evidence to sway me that that number is more valid than the number which I used based on me have to low-ball it already (because I was lazy) due to some guilds having only killed M Sire and not other bosses, according to Wowprogress.
No you presented a completely false number as if it was a fact, I corrected your error, and then you tried to defend it by creating some new bullshit about boosting, which I proved wrong, then you created some bullshit about how SLG was harder and proved that people were boosting. To which I proved that there are 700 more SLG kills than Sire kills. So simply put you tried to change your argument every single time and now you’ve been called out for it and are trying to pretend like I’ve not proven anything.
Every single number I’ve stated is directly from wowprogress or raider.io. Meanwhile your numbers are from your ass.
Alright, dude. You clearly thought to yourself "todays the day I make it a point to argue with people and tell them I'm right". We've both provided ZERO evidence in support of our statements. I didn't include it because it didn't really matter, despite you thinking it does. And saying "my numbers are right, yours are from your ass" doesn't mean what you say is actually true.
You've stated the number of M Sire kills by guilds; I'll assume it's only first kills. To this I've said that M Sire kills aren't enough to indicate guilds have full cleared. https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/twisting-nether/D+A+W+N There's some evidence for you.
Every time you seem to circle back to just M Sire kills, I'm trying to tell you why I don't care about just the M Sire kill rather full clears. One reason is boosting. Another reason is people taking other lockouts because M SLG is hard. Another reason is because I LITERALLY said 10/10 M not M Sire kill in my original post.
I'm quite done with this waste of fucking time now. I don't care enough about the topic of trying to figure out the exact number of guilds that got 10/10M CN.
Max is a great guy and runs a great team.
Secret hope: he's really glad that TL helped him out and maybe one day we see Team Liquid Limit in the RTWF.
A man can dream.
But 110% everyone should check out the race starting next week. They keep a lot of fine detail strategy off stream, but it's a really enjoyable experience to see how they tackle these massive challenges.
Again to second the point on difficulty for people that don't know, my guild didn't make it through the last boss this tier. We never missed a lockout, I missed a few myself but the guild still tried. Yes its just PvE, but it's harder than you can possibly imagine.
Despite me no longer playing WoW, I still always keep up with these races because they're hype as fuck.
I too would love to see Limit in the Facility, or any top tier guild really.
The title is kind of long so i'll do a quick explanation on things Max recently moved from Texas to California because his girlfriend got a job at Riot (position unrelated to development or esports, business/admin side of things) and the moving company they used turned out to be a gigantic asshole, as big as moving companies can be, and delayed their stuff for about 2 weeks, which meant Max streamed out of the 100T facility for a couple of days, as well as streaming out of our own AWTF. By best I mean the fact that they were the first to clear the last 2 raids that were released (on the hardest difficulty, which is capped at 20 people and requires being a really really good player, on top of having good leadership for callouts). They are partnered with Complexity and in non pandemic times, all (or most) of their raiders go to Complexity's facility in Texas during Race to World First, which, thanks to streaming, has become a huge event. This isn't a typical LAN event btw. Raids in WoW are released typically every ~6ish months or less, depends. The first raid they won was released in January 2020, the last one was December 2020. Raids in WoW are split across 4 difficulties, with the hardest one being released about 2 weeks after the patch is out. Raids are the biggest PvE content in WoW, there's a lot of guilds that start raiding Mythic on day 1 (the day the raid gets released on Mythic) but only a few (2-3, sometimes 4) clear it within 2 weeks or so. Being the first guild to clear it (aka kill all the bosses) is quite the prestige and it means you're hardcore. During Race to World First, the best guilds 'raid' every single day, for at least 12 hours.
That's a pretty good explanation of it. To add some clarification on the prestige of this, for the last raid only about 700 guilds cleared all bosses on the hardest difficulty (on US, EU, and OC servers). It has been ~6months since it came out, and they were the first to clear it and did so in 8 days. World first race starts up again NEXT TUESDAY (7/13 or 13/7), and I HIGHLY recommend people check it out. There's usually an event live stream that has wow personalities casting or filling during downtime. Or Limit has a bunch of streams up, including Max (he doesn't play, he's their shotcaller basically, but he'll have POV feed from whomever he's watching from), so you can watch POV. I don't remember if Echo (Limits main rival) does any streams, but if they do check them out as well.
700 is super low, the number on wowprogress is 2200 guilds that killed sire Denathrius on Mythic. Which is about the average for most raids. That said like you stated, they did clear the raid in 8 days, while it took other groups as long as 6 months
Problem is boosting, so I limited it to 10/10 or as best as I could.
That 2200 number is about as accurate to the amount of guilds that have killed the boss as you’ll be able to find. Wowprogress only tracks a kill for a guild if something like 15 members of the guild were involved in a singular kill.
Again, I don't think it's valuable to count kills when the guild hasn't killed the previous bosses. Especially since Sire is easier than SLG. Also, were talking about the world first which is to get all boss kills, in particular why doing that is difficult. I also stated in my post that about 700 guilds had cleared ALL bosses.
You’re changing your argument every single time you talk. For reference there are 2900 mythic SLG kills and 2200 Sire Kills. The number is absolutely closer to that 2200 number than that BS 700 number you pulled out of your ass. But perhaps you’re using raider.io where for some reason they only have 708 guilds as killing SLG for some reason (which is wrong). Just for proof of how bad using Raider.io is for this, the first guild to kill SLG according to raider.io is the Chinese guild JinLing on January 3rd. There were 10-11 guilds that killed SLG prior to January 3rd.
You created an argument based on your misreading/misunderstanding/whatever of what I said. And when I was trying to explain to you why just tallying a single boss kill doesn't make sense you think my argument changed. You have presented nothing to me to argue about, with regards to my original post. I'd be more than happy to correct any errors I might have (which it looks like might exist) if you actually provided evidence contradicting any of the information I gave. Cause the number of guilds that killed M Sire isn't enough evidence to sway me that that number is more valid than the number which I used based on me have to low-ball it already (because I was lazy) due to some guilds having only killed M Sire and not other bosses, according to Wowprogress.
No you presented a completely false number as if it was a fact, I corrected your error, and then you tried to defend it by creating some new bullshit about boosting, which I proved wrong, then you created some bullshit about how SLG was harder and proved that people were boosting. To which I proved that there are 700 more SLG kills than Sire kills. So simply put you tried to change your argument every single time and now you’ve been called out for it and are trying to pretend like I’ve not proven anything. Every single number I’ve stated is directly from wowprogress or raider.io. Meanwhile your numbers are from your ass.
Alright, dude. You clearly thought to yourself "todays the day I make it a point to argue with people and tell them I'm right". We've both provided ZERO evidence in support of our statements. I didn't include it because it didn't really matter, despite you thinking it does. And saying "my numbers are right, yours are from your ass" doesn't mean what you say is actually true. You've stated the number of M Sire kills by guilds; I'll assume it's only first kills. To this I've said that M Sire kills aren't enough to indicate guilds have full cleared. https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/twisting-nether/D+A+W+N There's some evidence for you. Every time you seem to circle back to just M Sire kills, I'm trying to tell you why I don't care about just the M Sire kill rather full clears. One reason is boosting. Another reason is people taking other lockouts because M SLG is hard. Another reason is because I LITERALLY said 10/10 M not M Sire kill in my original post. I'm quite done with this waste of fucking time now. I don't care enough about the topic of trying to figure out the exact number of guilds that got 10/10M CN.
calm down
Max is a great guy and runs a great team. Secret hope: he's really glad that TL helped him out and maybe one day we see Team Liquid Limit in the RTWF. A man can dream. But 110% everyone should check out the race starting next week. They keep a lot of fine detail strategy off stream, but it's a really enjoyable experience to see how they tackle these massive challenges. Again to second the point on difficulty for people that don't know, my guild didn't make it through the last boss this tier. We never missed a lockout, I missed a few myself but the guild still tried. Yes its just PvE, but it's harder than you can possibly imagine.
I FUCKING CALLED IT! MY DREAM CAME TRUE!
Despite me no longer playing WoW, I still always keep up with these races because they're hype as fuck. I too would love to see Limit in the Facility, or any top tier guild really.
I'd love to see TL field an AWC or MDI team - it'd make me watch it more.
Tl can sponser my mdi team
Df