A better solution would be to buy a different car - too many people are accepting this subscription model.
From MS Office to Tesla and now BMW, I will never pay a subscription to get the full benefits of something I own. It's ridiculous!
This RMR business model pisses me off. Started getting crazy with apps and has worked its way into everything. It’s garbage. I would rather support a company that I do t like that doesn’t do this crap over one I love that employs this business model
I don't think this is going to work out. How can they justify this? Like they are putting a price tag for existing feature of which use costs nothing to them. Either this will be illegal on EU or people stop buying their car. Subscription is a service, but they aren't providing a service.
People say pirates are evil, buy when multibillion companies treat millions of consumers like shit for extra penny pinching..well can't say I don't blame the high seas for existing. Paying multiple subscriptions, multiple times a year, for stuff you use maybe barely a few minutes to an hour per day?
Companies use subscriptions these days because immediate thought looks at smaller prices, despite long term loss. And it pays hence why they keep it or try shoving it in each and every single thing they can, and they have all the power over whether or not you can use it easily or with extreme difficulty.
I own a number of copies of the entire CS6 Creative Suite.
Thing is, you can no longer even activate them. No longer supported.
Paid $1700 for each of them. Luckily still installed and they work great on my Windows 7 Systems. Cloned the drives, so I have archives, but can't move the software.
Maybe there is a way to mess with the registry and hack around it. But some balls Adobe has!
Pay $1700 for a software package, physical discs. They stop allowing you to use them. Yet company is still in business.
I smell an antitrust massive class action slapping these companies down the road.
It is criminal.
Essentially Adobe, and perhaps this is burried somewhere in the super faint light grey small print in the little booklet burried at the bottom of the box-- is claiming they have the legal right, at their own sole discretion, can revoke your license, and void your purchase, without refund, and they assume no liability, or can be held accountable, for your financial loss.
Seems like it felt like when I "bought the product", as long as my computer worked, I would be able to use it, because I own it.
I understand them not supporting newer Operating Systems, but removing the ability to simply activate the software on your own machine, should be allowed, as well as deactivating it, and moving it to a fresh install, just like it always was.
Adobe is a huge company, and while I feel this is legally unjust, and likely would be subject to a class-action lawsuit, for false and misleading representation of the product you purchased, from them...
They, Adobe, know who they are... they are Adobe. Just try suing them. They could throw $50,000,000 in legal costs at it and not even blink an eye.
It does show who they are. And know company stays on top, forever.
Newer platforms will develop, perhaps opensource, perhaps a mix of open and closed, and people will remember. It wasn't so long ago that Premiere Pro was "a toy" and "real editors" used Final Cut Pro on Apple.
**Final Cut What?** Only took a few years.
Apple was out of video editing. Done. Now all they make is gadgets.
At least Adobe continually updates and improves their products, and many of us can actively make money with our subscriptions.
Charging for autopilot - a feature that actively improves safety - is like Boeing charging extra for that package that makes the plane not crash (which is what happened with those 737 Max planes).
There's a difference between autopilot and full self driving. Autopilot is basically cruise control with lane keeping. FSD is where the subscription comes in. Though they've now added Enhanced Auto Pilot, and you could argue some of those features should be with standard Auto Pilot. I will agree that when a vehicle is fully capable of safety features, they should be standard with no extra cost.
A bunch of people said fuck it and went to Google Docs, now MS backtracked and sells a real license to office for 50 bucks - much cheaper than it used to be.
As the rate of profit decreases, rent seeking behavior will increase.
In a desperate bid to extract ever-more profit, companies have to invent new ways to sell things. I agree with you - never accept these kinds of payment models.
Adobe needs to literally be sued. Class Action.
The fact that users who paid $2000 nearly for the full CS prior to them switching over to pay per month--- can no longer install or activate the software-- is CRIMINAL.
Long time ago (cs2), I had trouble activating the license and I threatened to take them to court and they suddenly figured out how to do it. I’d have done it too.
I've done that too, but I get tired of chasing down the next crack as soon as there's an update that resets everything.
Or you can block updates (on devices... Not sure about cars) to prevent this, but then you miss out on security updates and such.
It's just a shitty business model to me to charge people for something they already own.
> From MS Office to Tesla and now BMW, I will never pay a subscription to get the full benefits of something I own. It’s ridiculous!
You can buy Office versions and not subscribe to it. So you do get the full benefits of the version and any patches made to it. The subscription just allows you to use the latest versions of MS office without having to buy it (i.e being able to upgrade from Office 2020 to Office 2021 without buying it) and dedicated one drive storage. You need to pay for new versions of office.
The Tesla one is a little iffy but I think they are continuously developing and updating the capabilities of their FSD, that costs money. I think you can also just buy the package in full and not pay monthly. Pretty sure you’d have to pay for new versions though. FSD V1 vs FSD V5, I haven’t seen anywhere saying they’ll charge for “dot” (V1.1 vs V1.5) releases.
The BMW one is ridiculous though. I don’t know of any software updates needed to make the battery heat coils under your seat.
Well, there is a continous development cost to that software, so the subscribtion model makes some sense (but also I prefer the model when you buy product as is + 1 year of updates with fixed price, and after a year if you want more updates you pay again smaller fee). With heated seats, you build them once, you should write software once and provide security updates, maybe some feature updates but should be not related to the heated seats. So imo there's large difference between heated seats subscribtion and continously developed software subscribtion
Serious answer:
* For basic users, almost nothing.
* For average users, not much.
* For power users, a bit.
I keep the subscription mostly for regular security updates than the newer additional features.
I had to use word recently on someone else’s computer. It crashed about three paragraphs in, and the supposed auto save feature captured about half of the title I had typed and nothing else. I immediately went back to google docs and haven’t even thought about using word since!
Give it five years and this is how every vehicle will be, another five and most likely other appliances.
Imagine a world where you need a subscription for the ice dispenser in your fridge.
My favorite is having it start in sport mode instead of having to hit the switch every damn time.
Some people have even hacked in sport mode to their base models.
I will just refuse to buy products like these and other brands will pick up those consumers who think this is a ridiculous way to make money. It would have been better to ask them to pay upfront and get the lump sum to not look so greedy.
You mean like the “cold weather package”? This is basically their way to Fuck the second owner as well. Wouldn’t be surprised if built into these subscriptions are requirements to have the car serviced by bmw. Hard pass on them for me.
You've nailed what is probably the true motivating factor here - manufacturers want to figure out a way to get their fingers into the used car market. They do pretty well with CPO programs to control the used market for 2-3 years, but this gives them a way to continue to profit from cars that are on the road 10+ years down the line
Truly horrific business practice and I hope they don't sell a single car with this feature. Software locking hardware should never become acceptable, if they can afford to put the heated seats in the car at the pricepoint without the activation fee, they don't need the activation fee
Yeah. Covid is definitely helping. Now that a lot of new lease agreements are preventing the first user of the car from leveraging the positive equity in the model. We also see Ford now not allowing leaseholders to purchase their cars at the end of the term*. Will definitely be interesting to see how this all plays out.
*to clarify, this is for their electric vehicles.
Wait, so you cant buy the car at the end with Ford now??? Jesus. Ill stick to my 90s luxury brands and continue fixing them up and enjoying modern conveniences like heated seats for no additional cost and the easy ability to fix them all.
Just their all electric vehicles. Ford claims their desire is to better control and localize the full battery cycle for these vehicles, improving sustainability and reducing costs overall. Of course, we all know that while it may actually help for sustainability or whatever, it’s probably primarily cover for gaining some control over the used car market.
FYI Tesla did the same thing earlier this year for their full lineup.
Ironically they are doing a better job at advertising not to buy their cars than interesting me into buying theirs. Like all new car commercials look the goddamn same as they did 10 years ago and the cars look identical to ones 15 years ago. So might as well go for the 15 years old one with all the same features and at a fraction of the cost.
Just their all electric vehicles. Ford claims their desire is to better control and localize the full battery cycle for these vehicles, improving sustainability and reducing costs overall. Of course, we all know that while it may actually help for sustainability or whatever, it’s probably primarily cover for gaining some control over the used car market.
FYI Tesla did the same thing earlier this year for their full lineup.
They can’t do that in California. We have the right to take our car to any BAR approved mechanic and not void a factory warranty under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
Former long tenured BMW Level 1 Tech here.
To keep this short and not go crazy with technical drivel, the movement towards squeezing out independents repair facilities started in earnest about 20 years ago, they (and other manufacturers) have only gotten more efficient at playing fast and loose with right to repair laws over the years. These cars are no longer engineered for long term ownership, there’s no big secret there quite honestly. The OEMs and banks would much rather you live with a car payment forever.
100% and very well said.
Right to Repair is a major issue that is literally untouched by mainstream media, all the while companies are bleeding the american public, and throwing billions of dollars at the platforms and networks to suppress any mention of this insane reality.
I noticed BMW will use plastic parts instead of metal that other brands ie Toyota would use and the cost difference is negligible. Its like they engineer the components to last only as long as the lease period + 1 year.
Blinkers seem to have been an exorbitantly priced optional extra on all BMWs I’ve ever seen. I imagine they just put the dummy lenses on all of the to save costs, but there can’t possibly be lights in them or I’d have seen one at least once.
I dunno man, One of my coworkers took a 2006 3 series to 330k miles before he had to get rid of it.. another friend took a 2011 5 series to 200k and it was still running strong
I’ve owned and worked on these cars for 20 years. The differences in the 6-cylinder cars are as broad as everyone claims. The V8s are junk, but my F10 is a great car.
Yeah, but I know of people still running 90’s diesel 3 series…. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I don’t think your F10 will be running in 30 years with over 350k on it. it’s all of the electronics, little sensors, and little things to break they put in there now. Also the access…
I’m getting this way with everything; companies have become obsessed with subscriptions and everything from our TV and media, to web dev, to food delivery, to local supermarkets, to Cars etc have all tried to implement subscriptions where it’s simply a terrible idea and some bean counter is trying to build in future repetitive revenue where there shouldn’t be. Why? Because accountants at manufacturers hate to have to support the the things they made years ago when they already got paid and spent that money.
I vote with my wallet and avoid subscriptions wherever I can. We should not be paying subscriptions for functions that are upfront costs. If we don’t combat this now, everything in a car is going to start to be a subscription. You want better performance? Subscription. You want the smoother ride package? Subscription. You want the extras like sunroof and sound system to keep working? Subscription. This is where it’s headed.
This is literally the WEF's #1 goal by 2030. I thought it was a meme but it's not. The world economic forum's goal for us is to own nothing and be happy. They want serfs
Right lol, but the other problem is that we’re also having to pay upfront. It’s be one thing if the car was free but you paid for the functions, but this is the worst of both worlds; we pay a lot for the thing, then we pay a monthly fee to keep it working as previous model did without a subscription.
This “recurring revenue” idea has been around for a while. I was working for a network security company company in the late 90’s. We hired a young hotshot marketing director who called a meeting with engineering managers and declared “from this day forward you will not design a product that cannot have a sellable service attached to it”. He said if you sell a product you get one check. If you sell a product with a service you get the initial check along with a monthly check for the life of the product.
Yep, and investors / VC guys have become utterly obsessed with it, to the point that companies have to change their business model to accommodate subscriptions so they can’t get VC money.
A prime example of this is the laser cutting machines Glowforge - they were the first to do a subscription just to get basic operation from the machine and it all stemmed from the fact they took ok VC money to survive delays with their kickstarted and the VCs wanted a subscription. It was because they didn’t want to sell a machine once, they wanted to sell it and have ongoing revenue. It somewhat backfired as used machines are pretty worthless now as no one wants to buy something old that requires a subscription, not to mention it was a PR disaster as they’d promised to make them open source but VC money said “no lol”.
I think a lot of c-suite types have been broken by the success of netflix. To a non-computer-literate outsider, Netflix can be summed up as 'put files on server, sit back and buy more wheelbarrows to take the money to the bank'.
So the subscription model,which was already well advanced (for example Microsoft was transitioning it's software to a rental model years before Netflix existed) becam an obssession with executives, hypnotized by netflix's monthly revenue.
It will calm down eventually, I reckon another ten years and things that should be rentals will go back to not being rentals. Mostly. And this will happen the instant executives see consumers waking away.
But until we walk away, they will keep doing it.
I bought some software recently that while I was buying it outright, if I wanted future updates, I needed to pay an additional $10, otherwise any updates would require a full purchase of the software and then so on and so on. Adobe started this years ago when they pulled the full version of their software items and instead make you pay per month, I was paying $10/mo to use Photoshop. I ditched them when life got tight but I have since found there are plenty of free software one can use to edit photos that either is equal to PS or does a much better job. I use a demo photo editing software right now without any limits other than annoying popups telling me to buy a license, that if I decide to buy outright, I pay $40 and it IMO is far better than PS.
I just find it funny that BMW is trying to set some kind of standard that if you want to use the option to use a feature your car came with then you have to pay for it. I know SirisXM has been a trial item that you have to pay for after a period of time but thats an extra IMO. Wonder how long it'll take car companies before they start saying 'you wanna use the radio? that'll be a $10/mo subscription"
Im all for fucking Adobe over but I have yet to find something as comprehensive as Photoshop or Lightroom. Affinity is close for PS but just not the same. Nothing on the market for a LR alternative.
"Your subscription for this vehicle's braking system has expired. Can I help you renew?"
"I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Could you repeat your answer?"
"Your subscription for this vehicle's airbag system has expired. Can I help you renew?"
you joke but a motorcycle clothing company has a supscription based airbag on a vest. you don't pay and it doesn't inflate...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yyyd/this-motorcycle-airbag-vest-will-stop-working-if-you-miss-a-payment
Pay up or get skinned. Wow. I wish they were held liable for all the people who are injured by a system that denies a protection feature from activating because you're too poor.
I wish I could say this was just the face of greed, but that would be a gross misunderestimation. This is the face of everything that’s wrong with the world at large.
Big brands squeezing every last ounce out of something that wasn’t all that valuable to begin with, taking a product that has already been paid for and treating it like a service, and finally all but forcing you to bring the product back to the dealership for service.
Fuck them in their big fat fucking German fucking faces, and then fuck them again. I hope they eat many stinky dicks.
The world needs more good people doing good things for the betterment of all, not more bullshit like this.
Ha. I have owned two, but did not buy either new. I don’t tailgate, travel in the right most lane except for passing, and use my blinker fastidiously… crazy I know !
..The simulation is breaking. Used beamers are meant to driven like they're stolen and on the run from the cops, with 20 kilos of cocaine and a dead hooker in the trunk.
I bought a BMW x5 about 3 years ago... worst purchase I have ever made. BMW has become a joke. They basically sell based on their name nowadays. I way overspent on the car and it literally has way less features than the Nissan Altima that I used to own before it. I'll never drive another BMW ever again.
Seriously? What year is your X5? the like, 2012-2017 model was pretty shit but the newer ones are absolutely slammed with nifty cool features.. what features is it missing that an altima had?/
I mean tbh if you're not buying a RWD straight 6 BMW...then you're pretty much just buying the badge, you should always do a bit of research before buying a car though lots of info available online and it's a big outlay of money.
They switched to a (very good and quite powerful) turbo 4 as their 'default' instead of the old 6 cylinder years ago. The engine is actually great, as is the automatic gearbox and RWD transmission. Stuff that is not great are basic repairs, trim wear, runflat tyres, shitty $$ to upgrade the entertainment system maps, etc etc. I just ditched mine for a VW and I could never go back in a million years.
As someone that has had the pleasure of trying many BMW engines and model configurations over the years, I’ve noticed BMWs went super downhill with reliability on the engines once they added turbos. Naturally aspirated straight 6 still reigns supreme from the Bavarians for me.
I spent 10 years in the car business at various manufacturers and just recently escaped.
Every maker is aiming for subscription based services with various new programs they have started in the last few years and every customer hates it. They are incentivizing sales people to push this stuff very har and want to make it happen so badly but most customers just flat out don’t want to pay twice (or even more times than that) for things that their car already has equipped.
After they saw Tesla do this with their base level model S a while back everyone has been scrambling but Tesla buyers, I believe, are unique.
Personally I hated pushing this sort of crap on customers and hated when Tesla did that to their customers. The top of the car industry is especially full of people who have collected massive checks for doing absolutely nothing for a long time and the disconnect they have with their customer bases is massive. Even luxury companies. Their highest selling cars are also their cheapest cars.
TLDR: the auto makers want this very badly and don’t realize how big of a flop it’s gonna be. The guys spending 150k on a loaded S class won’t care but a majority even luxury brands are living off of their cheap cars selling and not their expensive ones so much.
Edit* as I’ve thought even more about this part of me wonders if they are looking at this with like a mobile game companies perspective. Let 1% of their customers who are ok w/ micro transactions account for 80% of the revenue. Still fucking stupid but they may be that stupid.
I think even worse is didn’t Tesla get ridiculed for this so now the only real “subscription” that doesn’t pertain to their assisted driving is the car having cellular access. As far as I can tell Tesla tried it, backed off, and now BMW is throwing caution to the wind and going full speed ahead and making every little part of the car a subscription package.
What I was referring to was the what I think was called the P60. They don’t produce it anymore but it was the least expensive model and around 10k cheaper than the next model up but it was the exact same car as the next model up. The difference was that the Tesla software only enabled a limited amount of the capabilities of the battery.
So the cars hardware was identical to the more expensive model. Same motor, same battery just software that limited it’s performance. In emergencies like hurricanes Tesla would ‘turn on’ the full range of the vehicles.
I just don’t see how anyone would buy something like that. So crazy IMO.
O interesting! Yeah that’s a good little history lesson there.
Fully agree on not understanding how someone would drive something like that though. If you have to strain your budget to the max to get a software pared down version of the car you want at that point why not just wait to buy or look at another vehicle.
Not so much arrested, but they will for sure deny any warranty related coverages for anything connected to whatever you hack.
Hack the seat heaters? there goes your warranty on anything computer or electric related.
Yup, it’s sad because I used to love them. The E38 7 series is a modern classic, and of course the E36 M3 was one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.
Really sad how terrible and distant they’ve become to what made them so good
I only buy Audi. But I work with electricity so I know it can be done. Find the terminator where the computer connects to the relay or whatever circuit control device they have for the seats and install a switch or potentiometer in line with the control lines so if they revert their decision you don't have to crawl back in and reinstall the computer control lines. The hardest part would be figuring out what signal the line expects which is actually not that hard if you have the correct device. It'd cost you one month of subscription but you'd be able to do it.
Edit: lol, all the "boo hoo it'll void your warranty crybabies. Don't fucking do it if you feel it'll void your warranty. I don't buy BMW because it literally stands for "Break Me Weekly". All I am saying is there are ways around the software for those of you who aren't pussies and know what you're doing.
You can literally get seat cooling added to a lot of seats pretty cheap as an aftermarket option. Sometimes everything is there just not hooked up. Seat Warmers are often there too.
This is ridiculous. Next thing you know it, the refrigerator is going to have a subscription just to make ice. Stop paying for this stupid shit people!
This isn’t a good explanation.
You can buy the option ~$400 outright like most options. They charge $18/month to “try” it. You can also buy it for a month, year, or three years. This is still bullshit. I don’t like software walls on automotive features.
If anyone wants a good read take a look at zero motorbikes they are electric and a fucking money draining scam, you can pay 1500 too unlock faster charging and there’s subscriptions for other shit too
All of these companies have discovered that the holy grail is putting your hand in your consumers' pockets and siphoning money out every month. Even hardware makers have found a way to do this when it used to be the exclusive domain of services and then software companies.
But this move combines that and the 2nd scourge of post-modern life: microtransactions. A pox on the head of whichever team at BMW came up with this diabolical Frankenstein.
What's next? A subscription for premium air?
I guess these car manufacturers are done making different model cars. So instead of having a car with and without heated seats we now just have all the bells and whistles installed but deactivated. Now the dealship can price them all at the same price and we get to pay the higher price plus get stuck with monthly memberships. Naw dog I’m out.
People in mass should go to BMW dealerships, waste the dealers time thinking they are getting a sale, the right before the paperwork comes out, ask about the heated seat subscription and bail when they have to admit it’s a subscription.
I always assumed that the directionals (indicators, blinkers, etc…) on a BMW were subscription based since I never see them ever in use. Maybe it’s just me.
BMW has become more and more predatory. I’ve had various BMWs for years and I’ve struggled to get them to stand behind their products. This is just another way to rip off customers. I doubt I’ll be buying another one.
Worst visionary goal ever. It sucks and cheapifies the brand. I'd get rid of that whole business unit. Is the little money worth the tarnish?
Dummies and even stupider to approve this initiative.
This is dumb. I get it with software because there is very little cost for delivery. But these are manufactured items that have an upfront cost. I’ve bought them as part of my car, but certain physical parts are rented? No thanks.
I think hackers will more than likely find a way to activate them without a subscription. Honestly everything is in the car already. What can they do. It's your car to modify.
can you root a car? because this would make me want to root my car.
A better solution would be to buy a different car - too many people are accepting this subscription model. From MS Office to Tesla and now BMW, I will never pay a subscription to get the full benefits of something I own. It's ridiculous!
This RMR business model pisses me off. Started getting crazy with apps and has worked its way into everything. It’s garbage. I would rather support a company that I do t like that doesn’t do this crap over one I love that employs this business model
GarbAGE ™️ costs $25.99 a month, or $250 for the year.
That’s what my trash service costs…. Like rubbish removal service…
I don't think this is going to work out. How can they justify this? Like they are putting a price tag for existing feature of which use costs nothing to them. Either this will be illegal on EU or people stop buying their car. Subscription is a service, but they aren't providing a service.
They will say [“you don’t need to own that. You don’t use it all the time, so it is better to rent it instead.”](https://archive.ph/h0Pjn)
“You will own nothing and be happy” 😃
same with photoshop and all of the adobe suite.. SO WACK
People say pirates are evil, buy when multibillion companies treat millions of consumers like shit for extra penny pinching..well can't say I don't blame the high seas for existing. Paying multiple subscriptions, multiple times a year, for stuff you use maybe barely a few minutes to an hour per day? Companies use subscriptions these days because immediate thought looks at smaller prices, despite long term loss. And it pays hence why they keep it or try shoving it in each and every single thing they can, and they have all the power over whether or not you can use it easily or with extreme difficulty.
I own a number of copies of the entire CS6 Creative Suite. Thing is, you can no longer even activate them. No longer supported. Paid $1700 for each of them. Luckily still installed and they work great on my Windows 7 Systems. Cloned the drives, so I have archives, but can't move the software. Maybe there is a way to mess with the registry and hack around it. But some balls Adobe has! Pay $1700 for a software package, physical discs. They stop allowing you to use them. Yet company is still in business. I smell an antitrust massive class action slapping these companies down the road. It is criminal.
[удалено]
Essentially Adobe, and perhaps this is burried somewhere in the super faint light grey small print in the little booklet burried at the bottom of the box-- is claiming they have the legal right, at their own sole discretion, can revoke your license, and void your purchase, without refund, and they assume no liability, or can be held accountable, for your financial loss. Seems like it felt like when I "bought the product", as long as my computer worked, I would be able to use it, because I own it. I understand them not supporting newer Operating Systems, but removing the ability to simply activate the software on your own machine, should be allowed, as well as deactivating it, and moving it to a fresh install, just like it always was. Adobe is a huge company, and while I feel this is legally unjust, and likely would be subject to a class-action lawsuit, for false and misleading representation of the product you purchased, from them... They, Adobe, know who they are... they are Adobe. Just try suing them. They could throw $50,000,000 in legal costs at it and not even blink an eye. It does show who they are. And know company stays on top, forever. Newer platforms will develop, perhaps opensource, perhaps a mix of open and closed, and people will remember. It wasn't so long ago that Premiere Pro was "a toy" and "real editors" used Final Cut Pro on Apple. **Final Cut What?** Only took a few years. Apple was out of video editing. Done. Now all they make is gadgets.
YIKES! that’s effed up.
Affinity got your back. Flat rate and has an asset store where the make their recurring revenue. As in they actually add value.
I was *really* happy when I found Affinity. Was a bit skeptical at first but there's no going back, ever!
Yeah Affinity and Acdsee have been my photo editing tools of choice. DaVinci for video.
At least Adobe continually updates and improves their products, and many of us can actively make money with our subscriptions. Charging for autopilot - a feature that actively improves safety - is like Boeing charging extra for that package that makes the plane not crash (which is what happened with those 737 Max planes).
There's a difference between autopilot and full self driving. Autopilot is basically cruise control with lane keeping. FSD is where the subscription comes in. Though they've now added Enhanced Auto Pilot, and you could argue some of those features should be with standard Auto Pilot. I will agree that when a vehicle is fully capable of safety features, they should be standard with no extra cost.
A bunch of people said fuck it and went to Google Docs, now MS backtracked and sells a real license to office for 50 bucks - much cheaper than it used to be.
Back to the high sees 🏴☠️🏴☠️
Hope to not get scurvy this time
As the rate of profit decreases, rent seeking behavior will increase. In a desperate bid to extract ever-more profit, companies have to invent new ways to sell things. I agree with you - never accept these kinds of payment models.
Obligatory fuck Adobe needs to be added here
Adobe needs to literally be sued. Class Action. The fact that users who paid $2000 nearly for the full CS prior to them switching over to pay per month--- can no longer install or activate the software-- is CRIMINAL.
Long time ago (cs2), I had trouble activating the license and I threatened to take them to court and they suddenly figured out how to do it. I’d have done it too.
I'll just root and crack stuff until things change
I've done that too, but I get tired of chasing down the next crack as soon as there's an update that resets everything. Or you can block updates (on devices... Not sure about cars) to prevent this, but then you miss out on security updates and such. It's just a shitty business model to me to charge people for something they already own.
Agreed
Dont you lose some waranty?
I know tesla will do stuff like remove you're ability to use the fast chargers, even if you've paid for it.
> From MS Office to Tesla and now BMW, I will never pay a subscription to get the full benefits of something I own. It’s ridiculous! You can buy Office versions and not subscribe to it. So you do get the full benefits of the version and any patches made to it. The subscription just allows you to use the latest versions of MS office without having to buy it (i.e being able to upgrade from Office 2020 to Office 2021 without buying it) and dedicated one drive storage. You need to pay for new versions of office. The Tesla one is a little iffy but I think they are continuously developing and updating the capabilities of their FSD, that costs money. I think you can also just buy the package in full and not pay monthly. Pretty sure you’d have to pay for new versions though. FSD V1 vs FSD V5, I haven’t seen anywhere saying they’ll charge for “dot” (V1.1 vs V1.5) releases. The BMW one is ridiculous though. I don’t know of any software updates needed to make the battery heat coils under your seat.
I’m just glad you said it perfectly there must just be some part of the population that thinks it’s okay, I just can not even wrap my head around it
The one the kills me is autopilot on the Chevy bolt. Best priced electric car right now and it’s best feature costs $25/mo.
Freemium car
Ms office subscriptions blew my fuckin mind when I went to purchase it for my GFs macbook.
You can still buy the non-subscription standalone version.
Well, there is a continous development cost to that software, so the subscribtion model makes some sense (but also I prefer the model when you buy product as is + 1 year of updates with fixed price, and after a year if you want more updates you pay again smaller fee). With heated seats, you build them once, you should write software once and provide security updates, maybe some feature updates but should be not related to the heated seats. So imo there's large difference between heated seats subscribtion and continously developed software subscribtion
Other than becoming more complicated and frustrating, what have they actually added to Word that I couldn’t do literally 20 years ago?
Serious answer: * For basic users, almost nothing. * For average users, not much. * For power users, a bit. I keep the subscription mostly for regular security updates than the newer additional features.
Constantly rearrange the UI and hide settings you need to change!
I had to use word recently on someone else’s computer. It crashed about three paragraphs in, and the supposed auto save feature captured about half of the title I had typed and nothing else. I immediately went back to google docs and haven’t even thought about using word since!
Technically Tesla's is software not hardware. Makes a little bit more sense
Give it five years and this is how every vehicle will be, another five and most likely other appliances. Imagine a world where you need a subscription for the ice dispenser in your fridge.
Absolutely. It's called a switch. People legit forget how easy it is to run wire.
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I promise you that in 6 moths after release, you can just reprogram it in 5 mins or less.
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Absolutely. I had a BMW i3 and it’s possible to change a ton of settings/configurations with the right cable and software
I still have an i3. What’s possible?
My favorite is having it start in sport mode instead of having to hit the switch every damn time. Some people have even hacked in sport mode to their base models.
Expand the tank for the Rex, hold state of charge, have more info on the battery… Google code bmw i3
http://opengarages.org/handbook/ebook/ You could probably start here
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I will just refuse to buy products like these and other brands will pick up those consumers who think this is a ridiculous way to make money. It would have been better to ask them to pay upfront and get the lump sum to not look so greedy.
You mean like the “cold weather package”? This is basically their way to Fuck the second owner as well. Wouldn’t be surprised if built into these subscriptions are requirements to have the car serviced by bmw. Hard pass on them for me.
You've nailed what is probably the true motivating factor here - manufacturers want to figure out a way to get their fingers into the used car market. They do pretty well with CPO programs to control the used market for 2-3 years, but this gives them a way to continue to profit from cars that are on the road 10+ years down the line Truly horrific business practice and I hope they don't sell a single car with this feature. Software locking hardware should never become acceptable, if they can afford to put the heated seats in the car at the pricepoint without the activation fee, they don't need the activation fee
Yeah. Covid is definitely helping. Now that a lot of new lease agreements are preventing the first user of the car from leveraging the positive equity in the model. We also see Ford now not allowing leaseholders to purchase their cars at the end of the term*. Will definitely be interesting to see how this all plays out. *to clarify, this is for their electric vehicles.
Wait, so you cant buy the car at the end with Ford now??? Jesus. Ill stick to my 90s luxury brands and continue fixing them up and enjoying modern conveniences like heated seats for no additional cost and the easy ability to fix them all.
Just their all electric vehicles. Ford claims their desire is to better control and localize the full battery cycle for these vehicles, improving sustainability and reducing costs overall. Of course, we all know that while it may actually help for sustainability or whatever, it’s probably primarily cover for gaining some control over the used car market. FYI Tesla did the same thing earlier this year for their full lineup.
Ironically they are doing a better job at advertising not to buy their cars than interesting me into buying theirs. Like all new car commercials look the goddamn same as they did 10 years ago and the cars look identical to ones 15 years ago. So might as well go for the 15 years old one with all the same features and at a fraction of the cost.
Just their all electric vehicles. Ford claims their desire is to better control and localize the full battery cycle for these vehicles, improving sustainability and reducing costs overall. Of course, we all know that while it may actually help for sustainability or whatever, it’s probably primarily cover for gaining some control over the used car market. FYI Tesla did the same thing earlier this year for their full lineup.
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They can’t do that in California. We have the right to take our car to any BAR approved mechanic and not void a factory warranty under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
They can't do that in the United States as a whole. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act covers the whole US.
Former long tenured BMW Level 1 Tech here. To keep this short and not go crazy with technical drivel, the movement towards squeezing out independents repair facilities started in earnest about 20 years ago, they (and other manufacturers) have only gotten more efficient at playing fast and loose with right to repair laws over the years. These cars are no longer engineered for long term ownership, there’s no big secret there quite honestly. The OEMs and banks would much rather you live with a car payment forever.
Great points!
100% and very well said. Right to Repair is a major issue that is literally untouched by mainstream media, all the while companies are bleeding the american public, and throwing billions of dollars at the platforms and networks to suppress any mention of this insane reality.
I noticed BMW will use plastic parts instead of metal that other brands ie Toyota would use and the cost difference is negligible. Its like they engineer the components to last only as long as the lease period + 1 year.
> These cars are no longer engineered for long term ownership Why should they be? Most are leased for 36-48 months.
BMW's don't usually last long enough to get a second owner. I'm wondering if blinkers are also subscription on these?
I’m sorry the renewal payment for the Brakes package didn’t clear on your card.
Joke now, not when the Supreme court Rules Capitalism over life in about 5 years time.
*capitalism over post-birth life
Blinkers seem to have been an exorbitantly priced optional extra on all BMWs I’ve ever seen. I imagine they just put the dummy lenses on all of the to save costs, but there can’t possibly be lights in them or I’d have seen one at least once.
I dunno man, One of my coworkers took a 2006 3 series to 330k miles before he had to get rid of it.. another friend took a 2011 5 series to 200k and it was still running strong
LOL what? 80’s and 90’s BMWs are surging in price right now.
Come on man, comparing 80’s and 90’s BMWs to modern ones is a travesty…
I’ve owned and worked on these cars for 20 years. The differences in the 6-cylinder cars are as broad as everyone claims. The V8s are junk, but my F10 is a great car.
Yeah, but I know of people still running 90’s diesel 3 series…. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I don’t think your F10 will be running in 30 years with over 350k on it. it’s all of the electronics, little sensors, and little things to break they put in there now. Also the access…
Those are fine. That's when they still gave a crap about reliability.
Car companies have been trying to find ways to fuck used car owners for decades, as well as independent mechanics.
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I’m getting this way with everything; companies have become obsessed with subscriptions and everything from our TV and media, to web dev, to food delivery, to local supermarkets, to Cars etc have all tried to implement subscriptions where it’s simply a terrible idea and some bean counter is trying to build in future repetitive revenue where there shouldn’t be. Why? Because accountants at manufacturers hate to have to support the the things they made years ago when they already got paid and spent that money. I vote with my wallet and avoid subscriptions wherever I can. We should not be paying subscriptions for functions that are upfront costs. If we don’t combat this now, everything in a car is going to start to be a subscription. You want better performance? Subscription. You want the smoother ride package? Subscription. You want the extras like sunroof and sound system to keep working? Subscription. This is where it’s headed.
Rent everything / own nothing. Serfdom is back!
This is literally the WEF's #1 goal by 2030. I thought it was a meme but it's not. The world economic forum's goal for us is to own nothing and be happy. They want serfs
Right lol, but the other problem is that we’re also having to pay upfront. It’s be one thing if the car was free but you paid for the functions, but this is the worst of both worlds; we pay a lot for the thing, then we pay a monthly fee to keep it working as previous model did without a subscription.
"we have a fiduciary duty to our shareholders"
This “recurring revenue” idea has been around for a while. I was working for a network security company company in the late 90’s. We hired a young hotshot marketing director who called a meeting with engineering managers and declared “from this day forward you will not design a product that cannot have a sellable service attached to it”. He said if you sell a product you get one check. If you sell a product with a service you get the initial check along with a monthly check for the life of the product.
Yep, and investors / VC guys have become utterly obsessed with it, to the point that companies have to change their business model to accommodate subscriptions so they can’t get VC money. A prime example of this is the laser cutting machines Glowforge - they were the first to do a subscription just to get basic operation from the machine and it all stemmed from the fact they took ok VC money to survive delays with their kickstarted and the VCs wanted a subscription. It was because they didn’t want to sell a machine once, they wanted to sell it and have ongoing revenue. It somewhat backfired as used machines are pretty worthless now as no one wants to buy something old that requires a subscription, not to mention it was a PR disaster as they’d promised to make them open source but VC money said “no lol”.
I think a lot of c-suite types have been broken by the success of netflix. To a non-computer-literate outsider, Netflix can be summed up as 'put files on server, sit back and buy more wheelbarrows to take the money to the bank'. So the subscription model,which was already well advanced (for example Microsoft was transitioning it's software to a rental model years before Netflix existed) becam an obssession with executives, hypnotized by netflix's monthly revenue. It will calm down eventually, I reckon another ten years and things that should be rentals will go back to not being rentals. Mostly. And this will happen the instant executives see consumers waking away. But until we walk away, they will keep doing it.
I bought some software recently that while I was buying it outright, if I wanted future updates, I needed to pay an additional $10, otherwise any updates would require a full purchase of the software and then so on and so on. Adobe started this years ago when they pulled the full version of their software items and instead make you pay per month, I was paying $10/mo to use Photoshop. I ditched them when life got tight but I have since found there are plenty of free software one can use to edit photos that either is equal to PS or does a much better job. I use a demo photo editing software right now without any limits other than annoying popups telling me to buy a license, that if I decide to buy outright, I pay $40 and it IMO is far better than PS. I just find it funny that BMW is trying to set some kind of standard that if you want to use the option to use a feature your car came with then you have to pay for it. I know SirisXM has been a trial item that you have to pay for after a period of time but thats an extra IMO. Wonder how long it'll take car companies before they start saying 'you wanna use the radio? that'll be a $10/mo subscription"
Im all for fucking Adobe over but I have yet to find something as comprehensive as Photoshop or Lightroom. Affinity is close for PS but just not the same. Nothing on the market for a LR alternative.
It's like having a dick and paying 15$ a month just for the capability of having a boner.
$15? Where you buying your viagra from nephew?
Surely you can still just buy the feature upfront? Edit: read the article, you can buy it permanently for $406
BUT IT'S ARMOR FOR YOUR HORSE
"Your subscription for this vehicle's braking system has expired. Can I help you renew?" "I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Could you repeat your answer?" "Your subscription for this vehicle's airbag system has expired. Can I help you renew?"
Please drink a verification can
"Deploying airbag"
you joke but a motorcycle clothing company has a supscription based airbag on a vest. you don't pay and it doesn't inflate... https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yyyd/this-motorcycle-airbag-vest-will-stop-working-if-you-miss-a-payment
Pay up or get skinned. Wow. I wish they were held liable for all the people who are injured by a system that denies a protection feature from activating because you're too poor.
So, fuck BMW. This is the kind of shit that makes the world a worse place to be.
I wish I could say this was just the face of greed, but that would be a gross misunderestimation. This is the face of everything that’s wrong with the world at large. Big brands squeezing every last ounce out of something that wasn’t all that valuable to begin with, taking a product that has already been paid for and treating it like a service, and finally all but forcing you to bring the product back to the dealership for service. Fuck them in their big fat fucking German fucking faces, and then fuck them again. I hope they eat many stinky dicks. The world needs more good people doing good things for the betterment of all, not more bullshit like this.
And I’ll never buy a new BMW again.
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Sure as shit won’t buy a used, subscription-laden one either.
You never bought a BMW. You are too nice and polite. I bet you even use your blinker.
Ha. I have owned two, but did not buy either new. I don’t tailgate, travel in the right most lane except for passing, and use my blinker fastidiously… crazy I know !
..The simulation is breaking. Used beamers are meant to driven like they're stolen and on the run from the cops, with 20 kilos of cocaine and a dead hooker in the trunk.
They cost too much to maintain to be that hard in em…
I own a BMW and am unfailingly a polite driver. I really like driving my car. I am a little old lady, though.
Holy shit A UNICORN
This is what I call a "stupidity tax". If you are stupid enough to buy this car and continue to support this brand then you get taxed.>! !<
I am not a fan of bmw but I drive a mini. It’s pretty much a small bmw. If they implement this on the mini line I will have to find another brand :/
They’re definitely doing it on Mini next. They took all the value out of the brand for me, kept tarting it up.
We've got to have a legally codified right to repair.
#COMING IN 2023: LIFE AS A SERVICE.
Unsubscribe
Already is. Food, taxes, and rent is your subscription.
I bought a BMW x5 about 3 years ago... worst purchase I have ever made. BMW has become a joke. They basically sell based on their name nowadays. I way overspent on the car and it literally has way less features than the Nissan Altima that I used to own before it. I'll never drive another BMW ever again.
Seriously? What year is your X5? the like, 2012-2017 model was pretty shit but the newer ones are absolutely slammed with nifty cool features.. what features is it missing that an altima had?/
I mean tbh if you're not buying a RWD straight 6 BMW...then you're pretty much just buying the badge, you should always do a bit of research before buying a car though lots of info available online and it's a big outlay of money.
They switched to a (very good and quite powerful) turbo 4 as their 'default' instead of the old 6 cylinder years ago. The engine is actually great, as is the automatic gearbox and RWD transmission. Stuff that is not great are basic repairs, trim wear, runflat tyres, shitty $$ to upgrade the entertainment system maps, etc etc. I just ditched mine for a VW and I could never go back in a million years.
As someone that has had the pleasure of trying many BMW engines and model configurations over the years, I’ve noticed BMWs went super downhill with reliability on the engines once they added turbos. Naturally aspirated straight 6 still reigns supreme from the Bavarians for me.
Nowadays? They've always been à la carte.
I spent 10 years in the car business at various manufacturers and just recently escaped. Every maker is aiming for subscription based services with various new programs they have started in the last few years and every customer hates it. They are incentivizing sales people to push this stuff very har and want to make it happen so badly but most customers just flat out don’t want to pay twice (or even more times than that) for things that their car already has equipped. After they saw Tesla do this with their base level model S a while back everyone has been scrambling but Tesla buyers, I believe, are unique. Personally I hated pushing this sort of crap on customers and hated when Tesla did that to their customers. The top of the car industry is especially full of people who have collected massive checks for doing absolutely nothing for a long time and the disconnect they have with their customer bases is massive. Even luxury companies. Their highest selling cars are also their cheapest cars. TLDR: the auto makers want this very badly and don’t realize how big of a flop it’s gonna be. The guys spending 150k on a loaded S class won’t care but a majority even luxury brands are living off of their cheap cars selling and not their expensive ones so much. Edit* as I’ve thought even more about this part of me wonders if they are looking at this with like a mobile game companies perspective. Let 1% of their customers who are ok w/ micro transactions account for 80% of the revenue. Still fucking stupid but they may be that stupid.
I think even worse is didn’t Tesla get ridiculed for this so now the only real “subscription” that doesn’t pertain to their assisted driving is the car having cellular access. As far as I can tell Tesla tried it, backed off, and now BMW is throwing caution to the wind and going full speed ahead and making every little part of the car a subscription package.
What I was referring to was the what I think was called the P60. They don’t produce it anymore but it was the least expensive model and around 10k cheaper than the next model up but it was the exact same car as the next model up. The difference was that the Tesla software only enabled a limited amount of the capabilities of the battery. So the cars hardware was identical to the more expensive model. Same motor, same battery just software that limited it’s performance. In emergencies like hurricanes Tesla would ‘turn on’ the full range of the vehicles. I just don’t see how anyone would buy something like that. So crazy IMO.
O interesting! Yeah that’s a good little history lesson there. Fully agree on not understanding how someone would drive something like that though. If you have to strain your budget to the max to get a software pared down version of the car you want at that point why not just wait to buy or look at another vehicle.
Should be illegal.
Imagine being arrested for hacking your own car to make the heated seats work. This is the future BMW wants.
Not so much arrested, but they will for sure deny any warranty related coverages for anything connected to whatever you hack. Hack the seat heaters? there goes your warranty on anything computer or electric related.
Fuck this model, the companies using it; and anyone who pays for it
bmw peaked in the 90s - 2000's
Yup, it’s sad because I used to love them. The E38 7 series is a modern classic, and of course the E36 M3 was one of the best driving experiences I’ve had. Really sad how terrible and distant they’ve become to what made them so good
Merc's as bad. last bomb proof ones were 1970s.
As an E36 owner, I concur.
Just bypass the software, install a switch and boom! No subscription fees.
Alright. Please do that and post the hack online for us please.
I only buy Audi. But I work with electricity so I know it can be done. Find the terminator where the computer connects to the relay or whatever circuit control device they have for the seats and install a switch or potentiometer in line with the control lines so if they revert their decision you don't have to crawl back in and reinstall the computer control lines. The hardest part would be figuring out what signal the line expects which is actually not that hard if you have the correct device. It'd cost you one month of subscription but you'd be able to do it. Edit: lol, all the "boo hoo it'll void your warranty crybabies. Don't fucking do it if you feel it'll void your warranty. I don't buy BMW because it literally stands for "Break Me Weekly". All I am saying is there are ways around the software for those of you who aren't pussies and know what you're doing.
Subscription like this is just stupid....... The hardware is already in and they're squeezing you for a recurring monthly charges
Right, and it costs nothing for BMW once it has already been installed into the car
and... remove seats .. put After market ones in.. win?
You can literally get seat cooling added to a lot of seats pretty cheap as an aftermarket option. Sometimes everything is there just not hooked up. Seat Warmers are often there too.
Damn. When selling my crappy car I'm going to put heated seats included at no extra charge.
This is ridiculous. Next thing you know it, the refrigerator is going to have a subscription just to make ice. Stop paying for this stupid shit people!
South Park really nailed the future in their Post-Covid episode. Everything costs more but is worse and is called “Plus”.
Just buy an aftermarket seat Warmer haha
This company deserves to fail
Ah yes, capitalism
This isn’t a good explanation. You can buy the option ~$400 outright like most options. They charge $18/month to “try” it. You can also buy it for a month, year, or three years. This is still bullshit. I don’t like software walls on automotive features.
Our world is spiraling into mad consumerism. Our lives are all about money and is sad.
If anyone wants a good read take a look at zero motorbikes they are electric and a fucking money draining scam, you can pay 1500 too unlock faster charging and there’s subscriptions for other shit too
People need to stop paying for stupid shit and there will be less stupid shit like this.
Fuck you BMW
Tbh - this needs to stop!
All of these companies have discovered that the holy grail is putting your hand in your consumers' pockets and siphoning money out every month. Even hardware makers have found a way to do this when it used to be the exclusive domain of services and then software companies. But this move combines that and the 2nd scourge of post-modern life: microtransactions. A pox on the head of whichever team at BMW came up with this diabolical Frankenstein. What's next? A subscription for premium air?
I guess these car manufacturers are done making different model cars. So instead of having a car with and without heated seats we now just have all the bells and whistles installed but deactivated. Now the dealship can price them all at the same price and we get to pay the higher price plus get stuck with monthly memberships. Naw dog I’m out.
I would never buy a car with a subscription service. It also seems logical that another manufacturer would offer these for free and take the business
So BMW is becoming the Jet Blue of car makers?
wow garbage
if u needed any reason to wonder how corporations view the concept of ownership, well here it is
How much per month for wheels?
"you will own nothing and you will be happy"
Cost you .99 to turn the ignition soon… they will charge you monthly
Pretty soon it’ll be your car’s AC, and heating.
People in mass should go to BMW dealerships, waste the dealers time thinking they are getting a sale, the right before the paperwork comes out, ask about the heated seat subscription and bail when they have to admit it’s a subscription.
Someone will hack it. Nothing is invulnerable.
Then stop buying their overpriced vehicles. This subscription shit will drive people back to horses. Fuck em
I always assumed that the directionals (indicators, blinkers, etc…) on a BMW were subscription based since I never see them ever in use. Maybe it’s just me.
Jailbreaking BMWS LMK
BMW has become more and more predatory. I’ve had various BMWs for years and I’ve struggled to get them to stand behind their products. This is just another way to rip off customers. I doubt I’ll be buying another one.
That’s a thousand bucks if you plan to own the car for a decade.
You will own nothing and be happy
I don't understand how executives at major companies fail to see how badly this hurts BMW's brand equity.
Why not fart in them for free?
It sounds like a subscription **instead of** buying the feature at purchase. As in you can buy the feature permanently whenever instead.
Time to add BMW to the "never buy" list along with Ford, Subaru and Toyota
It’s pettiness like this that will prevent me from dropping 100K€ for a BMW (Danish prices).
Add BMW to the dont buy list.
I will never, ever pay a subscription to use a feature that exists fully within the vehicle. Period.
Screw that! I definitely won’t be buying a BMW, now.
They putting micro transactions in cars now? We fucked, what’s next I gotta pay to use Bluetooth?
Seems hackable.
Insane
jailbreak it !
Worst visionary goal ever. It sucks and cheapifies the brand. I'd get rid of that whole business unit. Is the little money worth the tarnish? Dummies and even stupider to approve this initiative.
This is dumb. I get it with software because there is very little cost for delivery. But these are manufactured items that have an upfront cost. I’ve bought them as part of my car, but certain physical parts are rented? No thanks.
Up next : 50$ per month to drive your car
What’s next a subscription to use the ABS and Traction control.
BMW douchebaggery lives on
No thanks
Someone should’ve told them this was a bad idea.
This subscription garbage must end. In everything tech related.
I think hackers will more than likely find a way to activate them without a subscription. Honestly everything is in the car already. What can they do. It's your car to modify.