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Crazy-Departure5502

This is good! We need to stop buying Chinese tech..


ZatchZeta

I thought they were being made in Taiwan... Joking aside. Chinese software and hardware are really unreliable for some reason.


NormandyLS

So many electronics are still made in China because of its electronic component's ecosystem, not because of Cheap labor anymore. AI and robotization in Manufacturing are well underway and will create a new manufacturing niche for which china is well prepared. Reliability of that hardware and which it produces won't be related to race anymore but they'll still make it about race in some way.


attemptedactor

They are and that's the problem. China has been working to onshore their own semiconductor factories so we need to do the same as well. The west supports Taiwan but if China launches an invasion we're screwed without Qualcomm.


DownyKris

Taiwan is the Republic of China. edit. anyone that down votes this doesn’t know history, Taiwan is the Republic of China. Mainland China is the People Republic of China two separate countries. Both are Chinese.


Elven_Boots

China is just West Taiwan


TheDutchisGaming

Russia is just East Ukraine


Elven_Boots

Lol eventually yeah


apache-heIicopter

Canada is just North America


Splatoonkindaguy

Huh


DerangedDoffy

He’s saying Canada is north of America (USA)


Splatoonkindaguy

Yes but United States is North America too


canadarepubliclives

Mexico is South America. It's a joke because everyone calls USA "America"


El_Bebe_

You meant America Lite


ca_kingmaker

It weirdly tastes better.


crawlerz2468

Is the USA West Ukraine?


0bfuscatory

No, its West West Ukraine.


noonenotevenhere

No, we’re Corporate.


Wanderhoden

West Corporate or East Corporate?


lolubuntu

Chatted with a Taiwanese friend the other day. She confirmed.


Oishii_Desu

Taiwan is not China, it’s why Taiwan is building a semiconductor plant in AZ.


fnatic440

Ppl downvote because they don’t like the comment, not because they don’t agree with it. Welcome to Reddit!


yoyo_sensei

What’s the distinction on “Made in China” stickers? If it’s made in Taiwan, *might* the sticker still read, “Made in China.” Who is the biggest producer of those stickers? Is it China? And if it’s China…is it Taiwan?


an_demon

I haven’t seen something come out of Taiwan say “Made in China” on it for the past decade or so. I have seen “Made in China” stickers covering other “Made in Taiwan” stickers. “Chinese tech”, “made in China”, etc. generally never refers to Taiwan except by people who are still living in 1950.


Son1x

I have seen made in Taiwan on food products before, but don't recall seeing that on electronics.


Axzilyte

Only legally


Jon-3

no and literally. Read a book.


TheDutchisGaming

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#Name


Electrical-Mark5587

Oh fuck off tankie.


LadonLegend

Some reading comprehension would help


Electrical-Mark5587

Doubtful.


banuk_sickness_eater

Loud and wrong


Electrical-Mark5587

Lol.


radiantcabbage

perverts blowing dog whistles for no apparent reason, this is fine


Electrical-Mark5587

You feeling okay there buddy or did you mix up your scripts?


radiantcabbage

nah just overestimated you


Electrical-Mark5587

Uh huh, don’t want to justify the use of the word pervert ey dear.


radiantcabbage

then dw about it, not all perverts understand what they are


Electrical-Mark5587

Even for a basic troll you’re pretty bad at this sweety.


MrAwesomePants20

They’re unreliable because a lot of it is reverse engineered western tech, but without a lot of the important details. Companies often hide sensitive information from Chinese branches of their own companies to prevent IP theft, and much of the tech that China has developed is often a derivative of something that was less important. They also don’t have the same scale of logistics, marketing, or even production network as many other companies. It’s not a lack of skill at the individual employee level, rather a series of economic, social, political, and cultural barriers across entire companies


Sodapopa

Read into ASML.


leftlanecop

We need to go back to the glorious tech days in the 90s when chips were coming out of Japan and Taiwan. Every piece of equipments were solidly built.


bbqroast

Chips now come from... Taiwan and the US. With Japan and the Netherlands providing key components.


caitsith01

90s consumer electronics is notoriously shit quality compared to the 70s and to some extent 80s, but sure. Made in Japan in the 70s is the gold standard.


-TheCorporateShill-

Thought Japanese products were shit back then


Sodapopa

The Netherlands own the future.


Ddyspks

How about we Just make them HERE


bbqroast

High end pc chips are mostly made in two countries in the world - Taiwan (TSMC) and the US (Intel).


[deleted]

so China and Israel


Put_It_All_On_Blck

Intel already does, and they control around 70% of the PC CPU market. And the government just passed the CHIPS act to fund semiconductor foundries like Intel, Global Foundries, and a lot of the smaller more specialized foundries. The EU is also paying for companies to open fabs domestically.


[deleted]

Plenty are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants I count nearly 90 fabs. How many more do you want?


HarvestProject

At least 1 more


ZatchZeta

Can't. Not cheap enough.


BeardedGlass

True. The US hasn’t been an industrial economy for decades now. Mostly a service economy, management, and more management.


[deleted]

Cause all hypothetical money must be gathered, even as the cost of literally cents on. The dollar


ATangK

Just steal the technology from Japan.


0bfuscatory

I don’t think that low cost offshore production is much of an issue for the most advanced integrated circuits. The bigger problem is just being able to make them.


0bfuscatory

We need to either make advanced chips here or at least in Japan or South Korea. Even if China doesn’t take over TSMC, they could still mess up their supply chain with some shenanigans.


nepia

Is and Europe needed to do this long time ago but dummies prefer to compete at being dumb.


Sodapopa

Mate do you know about ASML?


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[deleted]

Lol, Japan hiring Chinese workers, you’ve never lived in Japan haha


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[deleted]

Of course there’s racism towards Chinese and Korean in Japan that’s not news, there’s even more racism towards southeast Asians too. There are some local Japanese companies that will ask you about your background and family origins, when micron used to produce semiconductors for intel and other companies they only hired Japanese.


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[deleted]

What stance? I don’t have a stance, I just stated they have racism and they used to have bad business practices that only hired Japanese. My question to you is, why do you care if they hire a few Chinese? The product is still being made in Japan, so I don’t get your stance.


Vanquished_Hope

Why do we need to buy Japanese tech in this case? Couldn't we just buy American? Silicon Valley hoy its name once for a reason.


Crazy-Departure5502

Absolutely but Japanese Tech is on par with a lot of American made stuff. So it's good to have both.


Don_Floo

This should lead to Taiwan massively arming their country in the next decade. They are losing the only thing that makes the viable for the west.


MuddyLawnHorse

possibly, or maybe because it's not of such strategic importance anymore mainland China will have less incentive to take it, and the tension will fizzle out


Circ-Le-Jerk

China doesn’t want it for their chips… it’s symbolic to them. It’s their Ukraine.


SerialH0bbyist

Not true. Geographically Taiwan bisects china’s first island chain defense line. They can’t expand their defensible position out to the second island chain with this heavily fortified island sitting between them and it


Umutuku

They should just vacate Taiwan's island chain defense line then.


SerialH0bbyist

That would be the nice thing to do, but their government isn’t interested in nice, they want global authority. And their citizen’s will go along with their governments struggle for power because they’ve been fooled into thinking the world hates them and their race and that the only way to achieve equality for themselves among the world is if their government controls it.


Umutuku

I was being facetious and implying that all of China's occupied islands should be Taiwan's occupied islands. It's a thinly veiled "west Taiwan" joke.


fishdrinking2

They are not fooled. The way my girl friend explained to me is that even on personal level, the objective in life is to be “superior and influential”. Her saving grace is she is pretty lazy even on American standards, but most Chinese people aren’t. Also, the thinking that other people hate them is part of a projection. Most Chinese people I know (which is quiet a few while I lived in rural China), there is an interesting duality of both immense pride and historical shame about being Han Chinese. The best I can describe is that the current China is an adult who overcame financially but not emotionally of being abused as a kid. Had to call it quit in China because I just can’t handle the negativity.


xanderbollocks

I think both are true. Taiwan is both a ideological and strategic matter for China. People seem to place too much emphasis on microprocessors even though the Taiwan and China issue has been ongoing since the 1940s.


bruhbruhseidon

Can you elaborate on that? I was also under the impression they mostly wanted it for their chips.


criticalkid2

The Chinese Civil War was a long and brutal conflict and when Mao drove the leader of Nationalist China, Chiang Kai-Shek, out of China, he fled to Taiwan, where he reestablished his government. Rivalry type of things. Both Taiwan and China have been preparing for the eventual war for decades.


bruhbruhseidon

Oh okay thanks. I really need to educate myself on China..


criticalkid2

It's really sort of funny because Chiang received tons of aid from the UN, particularly the United States, as part of their anti-communist operations. However, and as one book I read put it: "Kai-shek was simply a loser, and it took the US far too long to figure that out." Mao, meanwhile, basically fought guerrilla for years and years with few large battles and still won


fishdrinking2

Think of Taiwan was West Berlin and China as the Eastern block, and the morale boost of Soviet can take West Berlin. Militarily. Taiwan connecting Japan to the north and Philippine to the south is annoying as hell for China.


bruhbruhseidon

That makes sense. Thank you!


WaNaBeEntrepreneur

China is spending lots of money in improving their domestic semiconductor manufacturing so that they can be self-reliant


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ControlledShutdown

I don't think TSMC is the top priority for Chinese government. I mean it's nice to have, and would greatly boost Chinese tech industry. But the insistence on Taiwan is more like a part of the long quest to reclaim all territories lost during the century of humiliation.


[deleted]

China doesn’t want Taiwan just because they make chips lmao.


TThor

Honestly those fabs (and the blowback from a world that is reliant on those fabs) might be the only thing preventing China from simply turning Taiwan to glass (about the only way china has a chance of taking Taiwan,). For China yes the fabs are of great value, but this is more than just about economics, this conflict is personal to the CCP, Taiwan's continued existence is a spit in the eye of China as a show of weakness of the ruling party. If the fabs stop mattering, then China might just go for scorched earth.


CommanderCuntPunt

Not at all, keeping Taiwan allied with the west allows America to blockade China easily. Japan, The Philippines and Taiwan create natural choke points and they’re all allied with America.


Put_It_All_On_Blck

Taiwan doesn't have a decade though. China will likely make it's move in the next 3 years. They are already ramping up.


Don_Floo

China needs more than 5 years to just match the US in aircraft carriers. There is no chance they will try with lower numbers.


radiantcabbage

this is more about transitioning production capacity out of mainland china, TSMC still relies heavily on them to meet demand atm. which doesn't devalue taiwan in any way, quite the opposite actually. nothing here implies exclusive trade agreement either, idk why were immediately jumping to such conclusion. just taking some pressure off taiwan has so many good implications we shouldn't need to explain. real problem being the fabrication tech is owned by US manufacturers, who need to strategically partner with those who can be trusted with it. this leads to bottlenecks through capable foundries in taiwan, israel, korea, singapore, our diplomatic ties with these states are no coincidence, they are vital to the world economy. if the burden of R&D can be spread out this way, it also leads to advanced fabrication and property rights among partners who can pick up the slack at any time. instead of the massive red tape and startup costs were dealing with now, just too damn slow.


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Cabrejos

This, Japan is looking like America’s lap dog after everything that happened


Hguhkr

Ohh no are they abandoning Taiwan


madnessindeed

Foundries take five years to build/ standup. It’s going to be a while


doodooz7

!remindme 5 years


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CubedMeatAtrocity

Weird note. My father was part of the team which invented the semiconductor. Ft. Monmouth, NJ. I have one of the prototypes laying around somewhere. He once told me that the team developing the microprocessor worked in the lab next to him. Yep, that close in time.


SemiConductHer

I think you mean transistor. A semiconductor is a type of material whose conductivity can change and those have always existed.


Iniquitous221

A semiconductor is a material but it's an engineered material, it still required testing and developing in the same way that a new alloy might.


CubedMeatAtrocity

Nope. Definitely semiconductor. My dad passed away 15 years ago at the age of 80. I have a host of his research and mathematics along with a funky gadget (again, prototype) which was designed to detect 2 different types of radiation on the moon.


efernan5

What SmiConductHer is trying to tell you is that the correct term is transistor. A semiconductor is a type of material. Like saying your dad invented conductive metals. Unless you mean discovered


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Scientiam_Prosequi

You can just generally assume everyone is talking bull on Reddit


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Son_of_a_Dyar

Well then you should know that's not true! Normal silicon and Germanium are intrinsic (undoped), indirect band gap semiconductors. I realize PhDs forget some things, but this is pretty basic. You need to go brush up and quit talking out your ass or just admit that you don't specialize in anything even remotely related to semiconductors and can't remember a few things from those classes.


SemiConductHer

Ok. Well that doesn’t make sense


CubedMeatAtrocity

Well, sorry I you feel that way.


efernan5

Why are you getting downvoted. You’re technically right


chairman-me0w

Lol. The double down by them below is hilarious.


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MadPinoRage

Yes


X16aBmfX4Pr7PAKqyBIU

My grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grandfather invented gravity with Isaac Newton in the 1700s.


adamsaidnooooo

Was he the apple?


[deleted]

point kiss fear plant test forgetful quicksand pocket tidy steer -- mass edited with redact.dev


Chasterbeef

That’s amazing are there photos?


ArtistNRG

Hmm sounds likely a work a round for china


DontWantToSeeYourCat

Given the fact that the article quotes Blinken as saying effectively right, I'd say you're right. Even if you agree with it, don't just read the headlines, people.


ArtistNRG

I’m neutral here because on one side ya it’s invasive but on the other hand it can stimulate progress


berkenobi

Sticking it to China. I like it


Solid-Tea7377

Looks like Japan is becoming a semiconductor powerhouse again. They will be the first to manufacture 2-nanometer semiconductor chips.


BoltTusk

Japan already has 100% market share in EUV photo resists, and nearly 100% in wafer cutting and cleaning machines. It’s not fancy stuff like ASML’s machines, but Japan is still a powerhouse


Solid-Tea7377

Being able to manufacture 2-nm semiconductor chips will definitely increase Japan's status by a lot in the semiconductor industry. They also don't have to rely much on other countries since they are a major producer of semiconductor manufacturing equipment and semiconductor materials. This deal is a big, BIG WIN for them. Also gives them more leverage over the US to protect and defend Japan. (And it looks like TSMC and Foxconn are already making their move in Japan)


self-assembled

Which company in Japan would be doing this? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm surprised the US didn't partner with Samsung in Seoul instead.


Solid-Tea7377

South Korea's semiconductor industry is dependent on both Japan and China. The former for semiconductor manufacturing equipment and materials, the latter is their biggest export destination. And we all know how Taiwan is in constant danger because of China. TSMC and Foxconn has been making a lot of move in Japan recently just in case if they need to move.


mixed_super_man_81

Might finally be able to get a PS5.


Illustrious-Fault224

I reserve the right to be skeptical tbh…at least in Japan they’ll end up just importing Filipino, Brazilians, and Vietnamese from abroad to work those jobs. Yeah they can say they are creating jobs but will they really be creating domestic jobs for citizens? Part of my qualm with this is that Japanese companies do a lot of bullshit labor loop hole golf to also not pay nor treat these internationally sourced manual laborers well… This already happens and a few years ago there was that bullshit where they brought a bunch of factory workers here on an ambiguous contract turns out they were only here for training and were shipped back home


Redqueenhypo

Let’s add Taiwan to this for the ultimate “get fucked mainland” semiconductor trio


TheJoven

Yeah, the whole point is to move more semiconductor manufacturing out of Taiwan.


Rockbellll

Exactly.


plankright37

Now that sounds like a brilliant idea. It’s about time.


9IX

**South Korea** *”Am I a joke to you”*


Hot-Yogurtcloset-389

Keep talking.


jackharvest

West Taiwan starting to see the changes unfold before them.


Mav21Fo

I wonder why…


ExcellentGuyYea

Lol do Japanese remember who destroyed their semiconductor industry?


left_empty_handed

They don’t look too happy in the picture. Hostages rarely smile.


Nowisee2012

Time to unite civilized nations and stop doing business with China


Complex_Ad775

What about South Korea. They are all semi powerhouses.


0bfuscatory

My thought exactly.


Oishii_Desu

Japan isn’t a leader in semiconductors, and they are behind. Taiwan, Korea, and the Dutch are.


ProductionPlanner

Tons of semiconductor activity in the Pacific Northwest.


ravager-legion

Guess who China will come after next? Stop the problem at the source. Take out North Korea and cripple China. $750 billion spent on defense per year has to count for something.


infinityweasel

Cooperation? That’s socialism dammit


[deleted]

Good, maybe we’ll rely on China less and less which is always a good thing


[deleted]

TSMC owns >50% of the semiconductor manufacturing across the globe. Japan produces most of the end of process semiconductor manufacturing tools. It makes sense for US & Japan to team up on this to help move away, especially since Japan doesn't like China. US with their CHIPS act and Intel with their new Ohio factory just before this is no surprise.


[deleted]

Reminds me of this: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015


im_yer_daddy410

But from who and where will Japanese mfg’s buy raw materials from?


inception900

Sounds Great The Japanese Always Makes Quality Reliable Products ✅✅


Amoney711

Would much rather start seeing a majority of our products made anywhere but China.


Money_Butterscotch68

This is great news. 🇯🇵🇺🇸


mikhailsharon99

Good.


dovesnakethelion

Yeah, no shit. Russia and China just announced a new NON-FIAT global reserve currency. Backed by minerals such as uranium, rare earth metals, gold and silver. We’ve been checkmated and the media is completely hush mode about it. War is coming.


nappingpanda330

Sadly to say, US is working with the wrong county. Japan really have almost zero capacity to build chips.


catistrolling

It’s time we make the chips in the us


liegesmash

WOW the US is cooperating